Skip to main content

tv   Abraham Serfaty Moroccos Mandela  Al Jazeera  November 8, 2018 4:00am-5:01am +03

4:00 am
but turkish authorities have increased the pressure on the saudi government by slowly leaking vital information according to turkish sources cia director general hospital was briefed on the murder and had access to crucial evidence suggesting the order came from the highest levels of the saudi government riyadh insists no member of the ruling royal family had a role in. but during his visit to istanbul last month sandy chief prosecutor said. reportedly told turkish authorities that the king was willing to pay blood money to hush up his family and fiance he also said he had no idea about the whereabouts of the slain journalist body. and as the investigation continues turkey's foreign minister. says his country has more
4:01 am
information wants to give a name and nobody can stop him to do that so we emphasize in the article that the instruction didn't come from king solomon well it is also always that doors fifteen people. didn't come to stumble to murder. themselves so they got instructions from somebody so of you have to find out these instructions this is the. simple question that we have put according to the turkish daily newspaper staff of the saga consulate try to tamper with security camera outside the consulate but turkish police managed to retrieve the footage providing the now famous image of hotshots you walking into the building on the day he was killed and we're finding out more about the teams that
4:02 am
were sent to turkey from saudi arabia al jazeera learned from the source there were three teams involved in the killing of. a surveillance team the death squads and the cleanup team sent later to cover up the murder for turkish officials this confirms their believe the case was premeditated and ordered by someone senior in the saudi government. is the board. ok let's get going let's bring in our guests today here on inside story joining me in the studio mark owen jones he's the assistant professor of middle east studies at the hamad bin holly for university here in doha in istanbul ahmed qassim hand he's a lecturer in international relations at the ultimate bosh university also here in doha mohammed el masri an associate professor. in the media and cultural studies program at the doha institute for graduate studies welcome to you all mark jones here in the studio of blood money how do you put
4:03 am
a price tag how do you monetize what happened to him you can monetize taking a human life as far as i say this is the way of trying to buy a silence the problem with the blood blood money though is that often this as a solution to a case is in lieu of justice so the worry about the blood money is that that will be done to exonerate those involved in the actual killing and so i think if this man is accepted it's going to be massively problematic for the pursuit of justice within saudi arabia or of the killers of her should be mohamed el masry also here and if the blood money is accepted is it a problem for the people who accept the blood money. you know i think i think as marc just said i think it's going to be a problem you know all the way around and in particular for the turks i think the turks have taken this case on as kind of a sort of a national cause now they're they're pursuing truth they're pursuing justice so if
4:04 am
they sort of let let the saudi authorities off the hook with only a slap on the wrist and i think the blood money would be just a slap on the wrist then they will be perceived to have been sort of derelict in their duty. the saudis would obviously welcome you know welcome this they are they want this story to go away they want this to exit the news cycle as soon as possible they'd love to be able to move on to life as as you know sort of business as usual and the blood money might allow them to continue forth it would it would sort of let the authorities off the hook and maybe allow them to keep him had been seven men. in his position at mckesson han in istanbul one can kind of see coming done the coming down the line here a western reaction to this a european north american reaction which would be can i suggest you this is off the scale of being inappropriate is it actually inappropriate
4:05 am
i think. that is that traditional response having said that i would agree that this is testimony a clear testimony that the saudis want this to go away however when it comes to the judicial argument this has no meaning within the framework of due process and hence it is not only inappropriate to all for blood money to. mr kushner which is. relatives but also it is and. completely inappropriate or for that money to a country which has a secular judiciary system which form it even in traditional cases settlements like this settlements utilizing arguments like blood money so i would
4:06 am
say that it is not only inept or approach but it is also judicially not acceptable and not applicable and will not make anything go away on the side of whoever is offering blood money money does this also serve as an indicator that in one sense at least this is now gone from being a judicial narrative a judicial event slash saga to being wholly a political situation i think the important thing to bear in mind with this whole case and certainly with the judicial system in saudi arabia when there is high level potential high level complicity in any crime the judicial system reacts by becoming a political system so political justice then takes hold what we've seen with the case is this clear political will from both for example the us and the saudis to make this problem go away the blood money is just another aspect of that whether or not there was blood money offered there is no credibility or legitimacy in the
4:07 am
saudis investigation into the medical shows so regardless of the blood money there is no reason to believe that the actual judicial process in saudi the due process will be adequate to actually convince people that justice is been done so regardless of blood man and i think you know that the judicial system there is incredibly problematic mohamed el masry here in doha the son salah is saying or has said previously he has confidence in king solomon he didn't mention of course following on from the quite awkward handshake with the crown prince what he thinks about the crown prince why would you he couldn't leave the country about point just . the blood money do you think inculcate an atmosphere where he feels more confident in the king because it's a system that he recognizes and or he recognizes where the offer is coming from in terms of we want to achieve something positive here or does it damage that confidence that he apparently feels i mean it's hard to it's hard to get inside his
4:08 am
head i mean i think that there are a number of things at play first of all we have to remember that this isn't the first sort of gesture that the saudis have offered up to try to make this all go away they went to the turks initially during the first you know few days and tried to offer them investments and business business opportunities you know sort of political you know diplomacy and none of that none of that work now in terms of salaam. and his brother and the family you know what will they accept what are they inclined to consider a sort of a good offer i mean that's anyone's best guess and we'd have to sit down with him my hunch if you're asking me for my hunch is that they are deeply suspicious of the saudi authorities in particular mohamed been some man and it is noteworthy as you mentioned that they that they didn't mention mohammed bins and that the turks have also been very careful to do on in his comments a few days ago indicated that this had that this killing was carried out on the
4:09 am
orders of the saudi government he didn't mention and he did say that king solomon didn't do it or he doesn't think that he's capable of doing it but he did not he did not mention mohammed bin segments of the suspicion is there from from within the turkish government obviously pointing directly at mohamed been some men and i would have to think also with the family of jamal khashoggi as well. kathleen hahn in istanbul does this make it more difficult when the trumpet ministration takes its eye off the ball that is looking at just now the u.s. midterm elections of course naturally but when they start focusing in on this as they will have to do it some point in the next week or so does it make it more difficult for the trumpet ministration to make nice with saudi arabia because there's always the specter of big business of in the background because they have to deal with a leadership that pick up the word that mark jones was using trying to monetise mudda gruesome that. there is no way that one cannot
4:10 am
agree with what. has been the remark that you have just shared. and i would say that not only that but this is taking the form of a bribe when you look at it from the turkish perspective it is actually a contest off the gravity of the crime and turkey cannot allow that turkey cannot allow saudi arabia to buy its way out of this and this is as i said a confession and it is a reason all the more so a reason i should say to a third person the case when it comes to the trumpet ministration i hope they will also take it like that but i have my doubts and what is the primary. reason why they would not do that is still the monetary reasons the financial reasons the dealings and the strategy of partnership that. the united states shares
4:11 am
that saudi arabia i don't think that anything beyond internal domestic political pressure which is definitely involving some kind of an additional pressure from within the republican party itself. absent there will be no reason for the trump administration to purser this case the americans at least the trump administration in my view wants this to go away as badly as the saudis do so the only reason why they would purchase it is further might come from domestic political pressures which the trumpet ministration would india and feel that if it does not personally this case legally and appropriately would necessary end. clickable sanctions if that be the case they would be left in
4:12 am
a very difficult position in their dorm mystical political context well how do we square source and structure but speaking from that point how do you square the offer of blood money with being a reformer as far as the crown prince is concerned all reforming the country well i mean i think all that might have been solomon is it's been painted as a reform and he's a lot of money has been spent on this p.r. come campaign in the west the trying to paint him as a reformer it's also important for mohamed been someone to maintain domestic legitimacy and in that sense he can't go too far he's already made some you know a lot of changes like the line wouldn't drive etc so something like offering blood money need not be something that contradicts that his image is a reformer it's problematic for the reasons that we've all been discussing it comes across as a bribe it could be considered blackmail we don't know what other conditions are being put along with this blood money to someone who george curry we know that this blood money thing offers but what else is that we know that you know his family want to lots of the saudi arabia are they still under duress in some regards we're
4:13 am
not sure but i think to answer your question i think it's important to remember the man who had been someone was a young impetuous and at times unpredictable is also aware that you know when it comes to massive justice there is this domestic considerations to take into account last minute i know know i. that you believe that mr one is very dextrous out of the kind of triangular relationship between the one the crown prince and donald trump he is the most dextrous out of the three of them what are the chances that the turkish president says yes ok if only behind the scenes the blood money would be a good idea as far as the turkish government is concerned because it it redefines that stamp of culpability on the saudi leadership. well i would not say that the second part of. the assumption would hold true under any circumstances but the first one is i mean accepting the blood money is
4:14 am
a decision that the family of the late jamal khashoggi will take on by themselves and if they choose to accept blood money that is nothing that turkey can do. for the saving them for not doing so however a legal due process is a legal due process so when it comes to mr dowd on blood money alone rather political or judicial will not solve anything that is my firm assumption if we think about this at the gym as a judicial case that is the due process from the turkish press back that if this becomes a political issue if this is that just from a political point of view that this then blood money is too little for any kind of a bargain mohamed el masry here in doha ok if we assume for a second we've reached
4:15 am
a tipping point where this is now almost wholly a political issue not primarily a judicial issue all the diplomacy we've seen in the past four plus weeks coming five weeks now has been about deescalating tensions between ankara riyadh riyadh washington washington ankara would the blood money be a good idea if it carried on deescalating those tensions. well it depends on from whose perspective you're talking in from the saudi perspective as i mentioned a few moments ago it's a great idea they they want to deescalate they want to carry on business as usual they want to have normal diplomatic relations with with the with the turks and obviously with with washington. but from the turkish perspective as i mentioned from the perspective of really the international community at large if you look at you know the international journalistic community journalists are taking this on as a major as a major cause it's been it's gotten a lot more coverage than i think the saudis would have ever sort of anticipated so
4:16 am
far i think from the perspective of the international community from the perspective of president of the on you know and even i think political forces inside the united states. particularly on the left in the united states. it would not be it would not be a good idea because as i mentioned it's just it's sort of a way will be seen as a compromise it was seen as a way to sort of sweep this sort of sweep this under under the rug and then let mohammed bin said and then off the hook quit using this is come from because people have spent the past coming five weeks as i just said saying you know king solomon he's retired he's at the picture that's not wholly true is it because he has kind of come back stage right twice he's come back over iran co and and also over saudis attitude towards the whole palestinian issue is it coming from him or is it coming from somebody else well i think there is obviously a group of people around. and there's a group of people who oppose what m.b.'s is doing and it's important to bear in
4:17 am
mind that king solomon at least has been is believed not to be necessarily in his best state of mind at the moment so i think it would be very difficult to assume that king someone himself is coming forward with these policies as we've seen with the recent trips of. saudi arabia and even the release of abdul aziz it's clear that there is some movement within the family to try and clearly get rid of some bad blood and i think all of those people in. it will be involved in the decisions and speaking to king salmon about recommend a policy that's not to say that they'll be trying to use up there haven't been someone even if people wanted him to go he's not the kind of person who'd go without a fight but i certainly think that getting other heads into the equation too to come up with damaged imitation strategies to deal with what mohammed bin solomon has has been driving forward admit as a damage limitation exercise what you're reading of this just as a basic principle i mean the murder it's cells was clearly utterly incompetent it was a success because
4:18 am
a man lost his life but it was how it was carried out and then how the saudis changed the narrative the narrative at least four times i think it was maybe five times now. is this is the author of the blood money more incompetence i think so as i said this is not going to resonate well with at least europe i am sure that it is also not going to resonate very well with the public opinion in the united states and also it's not going to chime well with the press anywhere. and i would not say that this is a clever move because if this is a search for a political solution then it is true that till and if it is as it is to be taken as a search for. an extrajudicial traditional settlement it is true oddly i do not think that this is going to get saudi arabia anywhere except
4:19 am
the fact that it will be digging deeper to guilty as charged those nation so it is cornering itself. and that is not a very good idea especially for a country which is going to be ruled probably by a prince who positions himself as a reformer mohamed el masry here in doha i mean the vienna conventions of been breached international laws have been breached the saudis reacted very very very slowly in your mind is such a big surprise that this offer has been made at all no i don't think it's surprising at all because the saudis are you know obviously meeting daily trying to find a solution to this crisis from their from their perspective they wanted to go away and this is them sort of grasping at straws what can we do to make this go away and they're hoping that you know that the crucial could be family finds this amenable and they're hoping that that out of the one government finds it amenable and that
4:20 am
the you know the the justice the the case in turkey is dropped as i've said and as the other guests have said i think that's very i think it's very unlikely at this stage what point does this become wholly a political story and we forget about the judicial aspect the criminality that took place inside that consulate building almost five weeks ago i think the lack of question body serves as an important matter for for the bullet politicize ation of this case. his question his body the need to find a body in a criminal investigation of murder is so important as forensics there's d.n.a. there's a story that can corroborate all the facts coming out the fact that his body has not been produced and now there's rumors that if for example has been dissolved in acid all point to the fact that this will not be resolved in a judicial or legal sense it's closed off and now with the offer of blood money these movements behind the scenes to actually try and resolve this is set in
4:21 am
a traditional way suggest that this is not going to be a legitimate criminal investigation in this case and when his body is found if it is found i don't think it will be it will probably be in a in a state that won't be particularly useful for the purpose of criminal investigation all three of you seem to be saying the same thing which is this that the saudis absolutely do not want to pay a political price but they are happy literally to pay a little price they are happy and content to put a price tag on this that's the offer that's the story we're discussing today on the program what does it tell you about the thinking at the highest level in riyadh still about the consequences that may yet have to be paid for their actions in that consulate building in istanbul well if you think about it if you take the assumption of saudis trying to pay their way out of this crisis and scored a. then we have to assume
4:22 am
a couple of things here is how. we should remember what. the what prince turki al five fell one said he said that the saudis do not sanction an exit cute intelligence operations they pay for them this is a remark that he made during the afghan war. during the soviet invasion and that is actually something that has become sort of in my opinion a saudi strategy call church whenever there's a crisis whenever there is something to be managed studies are trying to pay they are way up or out of it and in this case also they are trying to pay their way out of it but it seems like this is not going to work at the level of blood money this will be too little if this is a bargain and it really hurts me to think of this as
4:23 am
a market but i'm going to. apologize because as ever on inside story the clock has beaten us but thank you so much for your appropriate thoughts to wrap up our discussion today thanks to our guests mark owen jones myth has seen han and mohamed el masri and thank you to you too for your company you can see the show again any time to the website al-jazeera dot com and for further discussion to check out our facebook page facebook dot com forward slash age inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter at a.g. inside story or tweet me at into don't be one for me peter told me and everyone on the team during the whole thanks for watching we'll see you soon bye bye for an. eye.
4:24 am
4:25 am
when online when you're looking at wildlife and how the solutions come together to benefit all parties involved that's where we're going to be long term or if you join us on sand if you could take me around the content way. you don't have to set up your experiment and your experiment in the universe this is a dialogue everyone has a points you actually raise several interesting point there that several of our community members are going to join the global conversation. so robin indo you're watching al-jazeera these are all top stories u.s. president donald trump is fog attorney general jeff sessions you know this from
4:26 am
comes just hours after trump's republican party lost control of the house of representatives and choose dates midterm elections that also increased its majority in the u.s. senate particle a reports. attorney general jeff sessions was an early and enthusiastic supporter of donald trump's bid for the white house. now when that bid succeeded president appointed his loyal supporter attorney general. but in his confirmation hearings sessions failed to tell the whole truth about a campaign error meeting he had with russian ambassador surrogate his lack session stunned washington with this statement in march of two thousand and seventeen and that is if you find. any. future investigations in. any way it can be a very nice. sessions move enraged trump who saw it as enabling the probe into whether his campaign colluded with the kremlin to win in two thousand and
4:27 am
sixteen trump publicly taunted and denigrated his attorney general often in june he tweeted the russian which on hoax continues all because jeff sessions didn't tell me he was going to recuse himself i would have quickly picked someone else. of course sessions had no idea he would recuse himself when trump offered him the job but once he did he couldn't interfere in the russian probe or fire special counsel robert muller who reports to deputy attorney general rod rosenstein numerous reports indicate trump repeatedly considered fire in sessions only to be talked out of it by his advisors but he continued to vent his ire he took and then he said i'm going to recuse myself i said what kind of a man is this session's refused to quit and fired back a trumpet a statement saying well i'm attorney general the actions of the department of justice will not be improperly influenced by political considerations we're not
4:28 am
battling his boss in the white house sessions formally a hard line judge in alabama senator was implementing to coney and law and order policies most notably the so-called zero tolerance policy on migrants and asylum seekers that resulted in thousands of children and babies being separated from their parents if you are some are doing a child then we will prosecute you and that child may be separated from you as required by law. in the end sessions loss of support among former republican senate colleagues signaled the death knell for his attorney general schip whether his departure will signal an end to the russia probe or be seen as another effort by trump to darrelle that investigation remains to be seen political gain al-jazeera washington the firing of sessions was announced just after president trump talked up his republican party's gains in the senate from choose days term elections but i'll have to contend with democrats powerful committees in the lower
4:29 am
house after the opposition party secured a majority in the chamber. president trump says that he'll have a much stronger opinion on the case of jamal khashoggi next week the saudi journalist was murdered in saudi arabia's cold in istanbul last month. on that the matter with more than a month since the death of mr show you the journalist very sad thing very terrible thing do you think saudi arabia is guilty of of having to murder and if so what kind of marginal your opinion on that subject over the next week and i'm working very closely with congress we're working together some very talented people and we're working with congress we're working with turkey and we're working with saudi arabia and i'm forming a very strong opinion all of the students kidnapped from a high school in cumberland have been released and took the seventy nine people from a presbyterian boarding school in the mend and the group save the children says one of its health facilities in yemen has been damaged by an airstrike
4:30 am
a pharmacy providing lifesaving supplies was hit in the port city of the data. also pakistani christian woman acquitted of blasphemy has been freed from prison bibi's lawyers says she's on a plane but no one knows where she's landing babies acquittal after eight years on death row nationwide protests by hard liners as the headlines more news and off enough stay with us. was.
4:31 am
a moroccan man spoke out against french colonial rule in the one nine hundred fifty s. and found himself in exile. a communist and a jew he became a thorn in the side of king house and the second in the one nine hundred sixty s. and seventy's. his fight against injustice cost him twenty two months in hiding seventeen years in jail and thirteen years in exile. but he eventually returned to morocco a free man. he was praised for his sacrifice for moroccan independence and fight for democracy and freedom. he was. sometimes called the moroccan mandela. was born in one nine hundred twenty six into a wealthy moroccan jewish family in cause the blanca. despite his comfortable upbringing his left wing politics started young and when he went to paris aged
4:32 am
eighteen he joined the french communist party. in one nine hundred forty nine he graduated from one of france's most prestigious mining engineering schools and would go on to work in morocco's mining sector. a young students heard about serfaty in the one nine hundred seventy s. while he was a government advisor to obviate. the. problem. every movement. the engineer of. the engineer know if you don't. want to be an. exultant he said but he erickson movement if you will. he. should go around. the daily more.
4:33 am
and more. to move more. to the. set and. move on. in focus he she couldn't have. done this concert but. as you. should have a yeah vick will say yeah i know their. kids don't have to. do it but because your dream. felt she couldn't yeasts they had need to bend back up if you made. sure to. give your. after her she said to hire. in
4:34 am
one thousand nine hundred sixty serfaty had started work as director of research and development at the moroccan phosphates office. but when the miners went on strike in one nine hundred sixty eight serfaty supported them and was sacked. but the forty two year old soon found a job at the mohammed e. a school of engineering in japan where he taught for four years. and them in the malaysia. netting can. certainly. let the delisting that embed the bad little stick lead. to cleland he can shed skin and them to the to the to nick to your a female horse. where the little endian home and if to me for her is that her shaw who. was there with.
4:35 am
flowers caught. the met much. intimate image to limp lower lip school going to him. it was dad's desire for development and better living standard.

32 Views

info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on