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tv   Inside Story 2018 Ep 320  Al Jazeera  November 17, 2018 3:32am-4:01am +03

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secretary as prime minister treason may fights to save a draft agreement struck with the european union stephen barbee replaces dominic robb one of the can them both conservatives who quit after the cabinet back the deal made took the to the airwaves to defend the deal this is not the deal of the future relationship with the european union the deal of the future relationship with the european union means we take back control of our laws we entry movement take back control of our borders take back control of our money so we can spend it on priorities like the n.h.s. went out of the customs union out of the single market rather the common agricultural policy rather the common fisheries policy that's right i think people voted for that's why i'm delivering. seven young peacekeepers have been killed in la parisian against armed group in the democratic republic of congo twelve congolese soldiers were also killed or wounded in the offensive near the city of beni in the biggest loss by the un force since fighters killed fifteen troops nearly a year ago those are the headlines about with more news in the next hour jazeera
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it's inside story to stay with us. more leaks more evidence of pressure on saudi arabia over the murder of jamal khashoggi to he has a recording that contradicts the kingdom's claims that journalist death was not premeditated the saudi narrative changes almost daily is there more to come from turkey this is inside story.
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of the program saudi arabia has given numerous versions of what happened to journalist jamal khashoggi at its consulate in istanbul it's always maintained crown prince knew nothing about the mode of plot and says it will seek the death penalty for five saudi suspects but turkey says it has new information that differs completely from riyadh latest narrative the turkish newspaper haaretz says leaked audio has killings discussing how he would die before he even entered the consulate meanwhile muslims around the world have been remembering shoji with funeral pres held and absentia in saudi arabia turkey indonesia the u.k. and the u.s. it's now more than six weeks since the washington post called this was murdered to he maintains the orders came from the highest level of the saudi royal court but that's again been denied. his royal highness the crown prince has nothing to do with this issue. in fact the national security adviser in the us said
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this. this was of operation we have a better sense of what happened this was individuals exceeding their authority. going beyond their mandate and these individuals made a tremendous mistake for this mistake they will pay a price. i. let's turn now to our panel discussion and joining us here in doha saad job where international lawyer and political commentator in istanbul matthew brize a senior fellow at the atlantic council and former u.s. diplomat and via skype from newark new jersey saw these professor of law at rutgers university and director of the center on security race and civil rights a very warm welcome to all of you here to inside story i can start with you turkey is wasted no time has not discrediting saudis latest version of events with this
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leak of the new audio recording just give us an idea of how it differs to the saudi narrative. it's diametrically opposed in is much is the saudi narrative is that there had been an altar cation inside the consulate you know that mr shoji was going to be taken back to saudi arabia he resisted he was given an injection of a sedative he got too much and he passed away and then they dismembered his body the turkish account is totally different the turkish account is that this was a premeditated murder that the team that was formed twelve as you were just saying was talking about killing mr shoji the day before and that the team was equipped with somebody who was a forensics expert who had a bone saw who was ready to to dismember the victim's body and that in the days
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before the murder members of the team were actually scouting low to locations in the forests around inside istanbul to dispose of the body so from the turkish perspective this is absolutely a premeditated crime no neither neither the turks neither president there to one nor american side have implicated muhammad bin sultan the crown prince but the way president are to one has handled this by dealing with the king king solomon directly and then leaking out all this credible information that talks about premeditation is an implicit way to say president i don't want to turkey are not being fooled about where where responsibility ultimately lies do you think that the saudis had to drill a line on this by announcing that the events on the day and indeed the death penalty for five saudi suspects and do you think that this new audit dashes those hopes. well the saudis. not you should be completely discount of the
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can't be judge and jury in that. therefore we should not a doctor that rush not. for far from that an international inquiry and who should we really resorted to for the sake of knowing the exact truth we know who committed the crime we know the identity of those who committed it we know that in saudi in the side of the political system nothing moves even a fly in the sky without the. approval of the crown to produce all of the king in this case is the crown prince is the mover and shaker therefore there is nothing. more than having an international inquiry at the present inquiry and then international press and i certainly want to come back to that idea of an international inquiry later in the program for the moment i just want to get an idea from you sowed how much pressure this particular new or dio might be putting
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on saudi now. well without the international pleasure without the of the mass market community and the media and non-governmental organisations the saudis leave it in denial and they are accepting the truth by instalments very by the deep that's why i would stress the point that we should not take any notice with the saudis have said because you are claiming the jurisdiction where ours they have violated or they were in gross violation of international norms namely the vienna convention on sort of immunity and diplomatic immunity they have breached or that they were in gross violation of all of the turkish laws and or other international laws that's the last why we should not give any way or any money or accept their narrative or listen to them they have to accept that the only way to you know for them to avoid any further scrutiny is to accept
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the have acted as a terrorist state as the state lets says it is not rogue leaders and i remember how we get the saudis to reach that point and so how what do you make of the way the turks are handling this so far drip feeding the evidence countering the saudis every time it comes up with a new version of events is this the right way to go about this. i think it's the only way to go about it presumably they have attempted behind the scenes through diplomatic channels to seek a way to either do this through a international tribunal or through a turkish corps but at this point with the saudis refusing to and initially the saudis didn't even acknowledge that this was a murder and they claimed that he had just disappeared and he had left the embassy and it was only after revealing the evidence lowly l.b.'s and with the pressure
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from the international press that the saudis were forced to have to admit because the evidence was so clear that he was murdered although they're still denying that it was ordered by mohamed than some man i think from a geo political level what turkey is doing is is quite brilliant because the saudis have been pressuring the turks along with the iranians i think turkey is number two after iran in terms of being a follower of saudi arabia goal to be the hedge amman in the region and so they have been doing many things for the past few years to try to undermine turkey and i think turkey is using this as an opportunity to tell saudi arabia you are now in a weak spot and we will not allow you to get away with this human rights violation it's also very insulting to turkey or any nation for them to have the audacity to commit such an atrocious human rights violation on turkish soil mikey what should taki do with this new audiotape you know in the past that they have allowed the
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u.s. to listen to previous order of recordings that they had france and u.k. canada should this one equally be put out there made public. well it should certainly i think be shared with the same people that were able to listen to the initial tape i mean the head of the cia jeanne the hospital we still don't know a vice we still know secretary pompei o actually listened to the original tape when he visited and grow a few weeks ago and i would recommend that the turks share the take with members of congress you know key senators now are preparing stronger sanctions beyond those that were announced just the other day by the trump administration in what i believe is an attempt by the trump administration to placate world opinion say were on this and let the whole issue fade away so maybe not at this point sharing it publicly would maybe that wouldn't be the best thing because it would look maybe too much like the turks are grandstanding but certainly let the u.s. officials hear it and as well as prepared to submit it to whatever u.n.
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investigation may happen ok well let's just take a look at what action the united states has taken this pos week on says a it imposed economic sanctions on seventeen saudis it believes to be involved in the jamal khashoggi and a bipartisan group of senators has introduced legislation seeking to punish saudi arabia for the journalists killing and for its role in the war in yemen if that bill becomes law weapons sales would be suspended and the u.s. would stop refueling saudi ackroyd carrying out bombing raids on yemen but the bill has to get through congress and could still face the veto of president donald trump republican senator bob corker cools the sanctions a significant step but does hope that more action will be taken. but i asked for a level briefing with matt as. to come in as soon as we get back to share with us what is happening with saudi arabia on both fronts both yemen and what is
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happening as it relates to the journalist who was assassinated in my opinion at the direction of the crown prince of saudi arabia as are just those little bit about the significance and the impact that these sanctions against these seventeen saudis have had because they do weights up to some of the top aides of the crown prince mohammed bin salma. what were the sanctions imposed so far. it was the seriousness of the series of crimes committed by saudi the saudi say is under international law and this is not to be discussed because this is irrevocably the rule is in easily small siebel in terms of civil. responsibility in other words compensation for the victims but the saudi government is a disposable in terms of what happened and without reaching to the highest level imagine if one hundred percent of the director of a company or an institution or the fact that that current war crimes happened and
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that his watch if he knew he would have resigned if he didn't know he would have resigned in both come stances that guy shouldn't be there shaking hands or meeting with the international leaders that's why the first preliminary step is for the world community led by the united states which is the biggest democracy in the world in terms of values with the united states freedom of the press protection of journalists and. other constitutional safeguards for journalists and other democratic values these should never ever appease one hundred percent in the least we should both core team and we should not talk to him as a premier you step then they should make it a condition the saudis if he did not extradite those involved in the crime directly and the suspects including the crown prince to an international partner of inquiry
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an independent one and an independent prosecution authority we should not appease the saudis and it's very unfortunate and say that the national security advisor and tramp the. prematurely try to appease the culprits and one suspects how do you think that that sort of action that started talking about against the saudi crown prince will ever be taken within the tranter ministration. very unlikely because from the united states perspectives domestically for those of us who support human rights both normatively illegally is we have two challenges one is president trump himself who has made it very clear through his rhetoric and through his actions and policies that he does not take human rights seriously and does not believe that that is something that should be seriously considered in international relations the second is we have a significant industrial complex a defense industry that makes billions of dollars selling arms to countries around
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the world and those two factors are going to be pushing very hard on congress not to pass these bills and even if. they end up passing which i don't anticipate they will very likely be vetoed niggas trump has made it clear that mohammed bin sandman is his man in the region and so the real challenge is how can you pressure try to realise them haven't been so man is more of a liability than an asset because trump only thinks in terms of real polity and dollars and cents and he disregards human rights both domestically and internationally. matthew do you agree with that see you think that there can be enough pressure or do you think they can be enough pressure to force this particular bill that they're proposing from both sides of the party lines to pass
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through both houses and indeed of avoiding a u.s. visa. i believe it is challenging but i do believe it can happen look the trump administration already knows it's got to do something so it has unilaterally already announced that it's cutting off the aerial refueling the saudi and amorality aircraft conducting the war in yemen and that's that's one of the provisions in this bill. and i think you know they're there they understand i think how flimsy this explanation is and how flimsy in fact this the sanctions they implemented to date are as senator rand paul said of kentucky yesterday it's it's ridiculous that us a sanction ing people who are already accused of the crime and are sitting in prison so i think i think the tide can turn i think it remains to be seen however whether or not there could be passage of the legislation in a veto proof way that we need to be two thirds of the u.s. senate i think the jury is still out on whether such
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a high number can you can be pulled together but i actually do believe it's possible i think it has been suggested in u.s. media mathy that the white house might have hoped also to have drawn a line on this issue by announcing these sanctions against these seventeen saudi suspects do you think that was the hope from the u.s. state department from the white house. yeah i definitely think that that was the hope and if you if you look at the language that is used in the sanctions as well as what treasury secretary said it it's a language that doesn't say that these people who are sanctioned actually committed the murder it says people who are involved with people who are somehow associated with maybe the planning of an operation which plays right into the saudi explanation that this was some sort of interrogation and rendition gone badly so i really feel the white house is doing all it can to protect in solomon one more
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point about that i agree with my colleagues comments about trump administration's lack of respect for human rights our president trumps not the administration and a desire to sell arms but i also think that you know the vision twenty thirty is something a lot of people want to see succeed it's an additional element of saudi arabia that's no longer so dependent only on hydrocarbons but has a more diversified economy is a more stable country it's just that whole issue is overwhelmed by the possibility that the architect of that reform program out could have ordered a murder absolutely absolutely ok so let's move on to that international investigation that you mentioned earlier the tatts and now saying that they won't one so why don't they just go ahead and call for one thing we shoot you should first you go to the security council because you have. evidence that sowed the shims. equipped we mean the switch out of a level wouldn't have been available except for steve because you have got a diplomatic passports but i have
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a jets or the equipment to carry out these kind i mean that would say see do so because there was an attempt for them the kidnapping them after the murder of the pants off the board. the source of to an outside the which would food we seem to do secure of tookie that what we have a conflict futile jurisdiction and what top of these are my farm. to international laws of your neck convention of other international custody laws diplomatic courtesies and so on and the plus we know very well but i can articulate practically about the saudis who would never extra base there were people to turkey therefore the way forward will be for the security council to take action and the chapter seven a binding decision which will bind saudi arabia to externalize those who were directly responsible. for the crime and secondly any suspect including the head of the state who is the crown prince and to and also to
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copulate with the investigation before and during the trial that's what happened in the record because i said the big guy doesn't care for example is when i learned because of second let's just get to the point first of whether the security council would ever allow an international investigation to take place or how do you think about that. again we're going to run up again and president trump and his team. at the u.n. and they will veto it it's clear from what trump's rhetoric is he wants an sound man to stay because he is a benefit to trump and you know his agenda so i think that they are going to veto it they may even be able to persuade others on the security council to veto it because this case has broader implications if there is in fact accountability and justice which is that there are many authoritarian regimes some of whom are on the
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security council and many of whom are on the un human rights commission that also persecute if not outright killed journalists and so if this is set as a precedent then many other authoritarian regimes who do not respect the freedom of press and who as a range for their. journalist to be assassinated were always are complicit in their will find themselves susceptible to similar. courts and similar trials or similar procedures so i think what we're dealing with in many ways is much broader than just accountability for saudi arabia but it includes us saudi arabian relations and also international freedom of the press and for that reason i think what the international press has been doing has been monumental and very important but for the washington post the new york times and and many other international venues but for their pressure in terms of bringing out the facts and
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reporting the facts to the public i don't think we would have even gotten this far we have these very minor sanctions but it's better than we started sought if not at all through the security council how else could and stashed investigation be instigated remember what happened to. is that people put ice build that are gross violations and. human rights in saudi we have out of hand the sort of people are. rooting in a prison without any he really could be bill charters and plus what happened in yemen by the same. led by the but our current prince therefore that is we could say that that is a crime against humanity because there is a missile. who will investigate that what body what he does not and have not the international criminal court because if you could establish and you could establish what happened in yemen against civilians and against saudis who are rotting in
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prison now and what happened to how should the blockade against a cup of itself if cut out of didn't what we did in two thousand and forty and what happened to us should be as a person would have happened to the top of the people a couple of leadership here therefore this man is very serious threat not only to the region but is a threat to saudi arabia as we know it matthew what words and sascha investigation achieve i mean say we had it we found culpability then what. yeah i mean i agree with the implication or premise of your question that's probably been solemn you know what would that wouldn't force him in itself out of out of his status as crown prince because the saudi government would simply not recognize that decision but but it would be humiliation of the saudi arabian royal family of the government and of the country and you know at some point domestic tensions inside saudi arabia matter the crown prince is not very popular outside of his immediate
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circle we all know all about the arrests of members of the royal family and some of the biggest other business people in saudi arabia so i think there are probably a lot of people out there who are hungry for revenge and plenty of others elder statesman who think that he's been reckless and gotten saudi arabia into some terrible situations already with the taking the if you know prime minister of lebanon hostage the horrible war in yemen the world's biggest humanitarian catastrophe he's behaving in a reckless way so that's my maybe that would be the straw that did break the camel's back ok just in the last minute we have if pressure is maintained and which have a way would have a full takes do you think the truth about kosovo is ever going to be known i think if turkey continues to reveal the tapes and if it's willing to reveal it to journalists who can corroborate it then the truth will be revealed the question is
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whether those who are responsible for this crime this universal international crime will ever be held accountable ok it's been a fascinating discussion many thanks to all of you for joining us here today on inside story. in doha matthew bryza in istanbul and as he said in new that the u.s. . and thank you too very much for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website that's al-jazeera dot com and of course always for further discussion do go and visit off facebook page that's facebook dot com for slash a.j. inside story you can join the conversation on twitter our handle is absent a.j. inside story from me the oracle and the whole team here it's by for now.
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it is murder when you throw a fire bomb into someone's home and need sheet off crashing you know the next now that is significant in the numbers that insignificant ideologically the insignificant even as it crime gag down very significant by dictating big government and the fucked up policy down shalt not kill the radicalized series on al-jazeera.
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al-jazeera. where every. senator robert kennedy was assassinated in june one thousand nine hundred sixty eight sir hand search is still serving a life sentence for his murder but there have been calls for decades for the case to be reopened including from robert kennedy jr. all the evidence was destroyed after the trial they had a legal obligation to save the evidence because sir hand was going to file an appeal al-jazeera world asks who killed robert kennedy. when the breaks and the story it's the fight against isis still continuing in the desert
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when people need to be heard. and the story needs to be told families their status and wealth has benefited from their choice and so have people al-jazeera has teams on the ground to bring you more award winning documentaries and live lives on it and online. you're watching al-jazeera arms the whole robin indo are these are all top news stories the washington post is reporting that the cia has concluded saudi crown prince mohammed bin salaam ordered the killing of journalist jamal khashoggi it also reports the saudi ambassador to the u.s. told g. he would be safe to go to the consulate but the ambassador denies his conversations took place it follows turkish media reports.

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