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tv   Inside Story 2019 Ep 7  Al Jazeera  January 7, 2019 8:32pm-9:00pm +03

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day truce on imposing new tariffs will expire in march and less a deal can be made the european commission has said there will be no renegotiation of the brakes a deal that was agreed with versions government just twelve weeks to go now to leave cayley's the e.u. commission president says the negotiations are over british prime minister teresa mayes expected to put the deal to a version parliament next week and a government crackdown on fuel theft in mexico has led to a shortage for drivers president under arrest manuel lopez obrador who took office in december vowed to stop billions of dollars in petrol theft by gangs in oil workers tankers are being used to move the fuel and state of the country's vulnerable pipelines system back with your news hour in twenty five minutes right now inside story.
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after centuries of close ties. ukraine have cut ties with russia. dire consequences but what's triggered the split was a politically motivated this is inside story. i don't welcome to the program the peron i'm the eastern orthodox church has over two hundred fifty million members around the world its spiritual leader is based in istanbul but for follow us in ukraine there is a new found independence churches that have officially cut ties with their russian branch accusing it of what they called propaganda the decision has angered russian
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leaders will bring in our guests in a moment but first mohamed. discussion from moscow. oh oh bartholomew the first the leader of the eastern orthodox church and a man at the center of what's being described as potentially one of the biggest rifts in christianity in recent times. with his signature on saturday he officially split most of ukraine's orthodox churches from centuries of russian jurisdiction. flow horrific emotive on sunday during a service in the turkish city of istanbul to mark the orthodox feast day of the pippen e the document for the separation also known as the thomas was officially handed over to the leader of the now independent ukrainian orthodox churches as most of watching from the side petro poroshenko the ukrainian president he's pushed for ukraine's orthodox churches to split from what he and others have described as
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russian influence and propaganda ukraine's churches have been under pressure to sever ties since the country became independent after the breakup of the soviet union in one thousand nine hundred ninety one. and that pressure has been getting stronger since russia annexed crimea in two thousand and fourteen ukraine imposed martial law in november saying it feared a full scale invasion after russia captured three of its vessels in the current strait a third muslim the us says if a fish the ship and the toll most for us is actually another act of proclaiming ukraine's independence it will complete the assertion of independence of the ukrainian state strengthen religious freedom and enter confessional peace it will strengthen the rights and freedoms of citizens. in moscow political analysts say this is as much about politics as it is about religion and the impact of a church but at the on on the relations between the us and the crane is a work in you know for both the positions of moscow but adequate in you know in
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ukraine and. in the long way around the region the been done so could any and all of the books and over ukrainian states from russian. in general the. split has been largely boycotted by ukraine's largest orthodox church which remains loyal to russia. moscow in the russian branch of the church have also cut ties with istanbul which is regarded as the center of the eastern orthodox faith. it's unclear how all this will ultimately play out but for many in ukraine the creation of an orthodox church independent from moscow is a momentous step toward ukraine's political independence from russia. moscow well let's take a closer look at the eastern orthodox church now it's one of the oldest religious institutions and second largest after the roman catholic church it has more than two hundred fifty million members around the world most of whom live in eastern europe greece the caucasus and parts of the middle east and africa orthodox church
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as a self-governed but the medical patriarch of constantinople based as the ball is that spiritual leader. well let's bring in our guests now joining us from kiev as valentini yako schick professor of political science at the national university of kiev mohai the academy in london as their then professor of sociology of religion and department head of theology and religious studies at king's college london and joining us and scot from moscow is alexander birch esky senior foreign policy at gazeta dot argue that's a russian newspaper a very warm welcome to all of you let me start with mr bush there and london are we seeing the biggest schism in christianity in the hundreds if not a thousand years. it's obviously not the biggest schism in christan it's a moreover i would be very careful about using the word schism because it has very
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kind of derogatory connotations within the orthodox and kristan is in general you know it means god of the oil always hubris if you like it's it's about. all the. national churches in within the orthodox tradition have a degree of independence and this is how they actually have co-existed for four years so i hope the current situation will not lead to this bleed but eventually to the more kind of balance within within eastern orthodox in that mistake why do you think that the patriarch in constantinople is granting autonomy to ukraine and how much of patriarch bartholomew the decision is based on religion and how much of it as political. well it is a political definitely a political step there is not much of religion according to canonical
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traditions or ecumenical patriarch couldn't have broken the dream and or three hundred and thirty and something else years old or and dispossess russian party or kate or of its legal right to operate in ukraine but it was done it's political step and it's a logical because a communicable butter cape from istanbul was approached many times by ukrainian political leaders who wanted to add to ukrainian political independence also some signs of being separate from russian church with the center in moscow as political step it leads to two most important results one that that part of ukrainian offered up church was split from ukraine
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in one thousand nine hundred ninety two now becomes canonical so it means that all their read leaders services have value from the religious point of view before when the ukrainian to split away churches we're not under the ages of if you medical petrarch ate all what they were doing it was questioned by many christians here if there is a real leader just the little bit so this is one important issue that further services all of these two ukrainian. churches which united now will have value according to the league just standards but in your in other aspect it leaves this decision of if you menocal party. from istanbul leads to splits political split in the world of the dog's christianity now his step was not
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supported by any other church maybe it will be supported by diageo oral buy. or maybe bible garia but the rest are not supporting it in staying that it is an invasion on russian orthodox church canonical territory and we have these two results and one that you know of and could that lead you know to what i referred to as a schism earlier the fact that the orthodox church which has you know of some three hundred million followers the russians have said that they are going to break off relations with constantinople because of this decision mr brashness k. how would the other orthodox church is going to going to deal with this decision did they fail any pressure to align themselves with either constantinople or with moscow. of course the situation new is very difficult for now to decide i
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think actually all will depend from father curiel the head of a russian orthodox josh diplomacy is very complicated figure very connected to goodman brezhnev russia but also south by a very powerful player so all will depend on his diplomacy how he will deal with those countries of course you will be of course consulted whether you're george diplomats because he's very bored you we have russian orthodox schorsch redemption relationship with the churches let's say of syria which is an ally of russia with a bulgarian which is e.u. country greece which is very close to russia historically and religiously which will be very big will not do their own church itself also but to the russian state so i think for him it's now it's now the time to craft a very you know a very you know shy diplomacy by should work for those countries other spice this position will be weakened when he is already working and we've heard from him already and he has not being diplomatic he sent constantinople as patriotic
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a thought of me a very hostile he would lead to saying things like you will for aves the possibility of saving the unity of god's holy churches you'll say still be the saddest and the orthodox well and the suffering you quarrels so also talks ukrainians will follow you to the last judgment mistake and as this damaging and divisive for christianity. in fact we can see this we can observe with probably a lot of concern this inflammatory rhetoric from from both sides and i can get understand why it's a huge blow it's a huge challenge for the russian orthodox church which has about probably between thirty and thirty five percent of all the spare issues in ukraine and for a number of diplomatic reasons which my my my my colleagues have just identified. also it's a big problem obviously
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a challenge now for the ukrainian church and for the ukrainian state you know how it would go about where all the we're only at the beginning of creating this new church and this church and the ukrainian state will have to deal with a number of challenges so i understand this rhetoric in particular for take account of the geopolitical context but i do hope that behind this rhetoric there is a kind of realisation that we need to take care of the ordinary people ordinary believe us of the political implications of this and that's my hope that might result actually in. this relationship between the ukrainian orthodox church the independent church and the moscow but very kate and all the ramifications for the orthodox church as a whole there would diplomacy that alexander has just used will be key to the
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situation messy accuracy of of got ukraine's security service at the moment investigating interrogating even priests who are loyal to the russian orthodoxy i know that our other guests are talking about diplomacy but if we look at what's happening on the ground is this going to provoke russia how much is this going to provoke russia do you think. well you see if you create a new security service is doing something to pressure on the clergy they're not doing it very seriously because they know that in three months time there will be election elections and they cannot fully support the illegal and the constitutional intervention into really just affairs so please don't be afraid of something very serious happen it's more political game on the ukrainian establishment as well as politicians are using religious matters as
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a tool in the elections the same is with the security service and i would say that for you probably the audience the international audience would be interesting to know what it means in your own context what is happening in ukraine it's as if in america there is the unification of those these christians who support mr and on the other side those who support mrs clinton and democrats and if american government would act on one side or establishment on in supporting one part or another part of these divided politically divided nations ukrainian authorities have chosen this way of supporting one part of our culturally and politically divided society and what is interesting that among initiators of this support of the governmental governmental support of reunification of two churches which were
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not considered to be canonical and which became not canonical but are many jews there are many more saloons and they are catholics and greek catholics so you can i think imagine what kind of process it is i'm sure that after the elections this kind of political game will be settled and religious matters will be left for the league just be. all. political matters will be just for parties not dry and churches no several george is correct and political parties it side ukraine and worldwide and that is and that is why ukrainian authorities have been and not just authorities but actually the ukrainian churches have been asking for autonomy because they say that you know the moscow back churches in ukraine are kremlin to to spread propaganda and that they're even you know supporting fighters in the east in the conflict that's killed more than ten thousand people is there
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any truth to that mr burgess kate. well i would say partly that might be are some true but i don't think so i'm going to charge her official charge people on the ground the simple brace other they're loyal to ukrainian georgia and they don't want a russian charge are actually you know doing something like that they're actually doing be concerned about what there will be nothing of the people were actually working because unfortunately in russia there is always an image of this you know guy even in ukraine as well the guy who drives a luxury car saddos and has golden golden stuff on him there's a priest now also a lot of ordinary priest will also work hard for their own people so they are not really interested in political games i can tell us something today i was in the church and like our father of all public tour he was very calm he didn't mention anything bad he just say we pray for all christians so i think the position the composition of those people the people on the ground i'm not connected to putin abortion and they are old political games they are actually i think they're doing
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whatever they can for what they say who only human i think goes i'm fortunate we are going to a relationship between ukraine and russia are in very bad shape that christianity and the unity or well of our religion is only the one thing which unites us mrs stan as we've been hearing there is a very important election coming up in ukraine and with had president petro poroshenko you know in constantinople for this decision by the by the patriarch is this going to be do you think how much is this you know a newfound autonomy going to boost president petro poroshenko as he faces this election battle. i'm not expert on here i mean you can politics but obviously i know what it was some think about it and then relatives in ukraine actually i am in moscow as well i'm following the situation well what i want to make a general point jane you know corn and on what we have just heard. the establishment
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of independent churches have has always been a political process in his state has always been the case but country to separate religion and politics in these in this particular case and obviously president poroshenko like probably any other president in a country where you've got the clear sort of dominant religious tradition such as orthodoxy would use you know the situation for for political gains this is not to justify or criticized this is just got a very old politics politic if you like and obviously he is going to use his success in securing this thomas from the ecumenical about three arc he probably even downplay some of the aspects of this storm as it's quite an interesting actually document reach among other things it limits the ortho to see all the new church for example in five in parishes abroad or on that they found it
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also limits its authority to see in the title of the head of the church it's supposed to be met. and the myth properly it's a metropolitan not not the part the ark is quite in it is interesting development so partition is going probably to play down those aspects but there is no doubt that he's going to use it and the the political forces behind it quite understandably they will going to use it to their advantage in the election and there's also you know going forward now there's the sort of. what happens to the churches in ukraine the distribution of property of the church and. and we've had some very serious words from president putin actually who's been warning that any redistribution of church property could result in a heavy dispute if not bloodshed and mr how do you see this playing out can this be settled in a way that won't involve violence. so
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first of all i should mention that it's not about it told me of ukrainian church it to ukrainian church was all of us autonomy's and ukrainian church which is in connection with russian but there kate has worn out autonomy as rights did the church which now goes under the auspices of constantinople so this is first issue it's about splitting from russia official policy in all possible spheres in cultural traditional it cannot make and so on and it is also a business issue because churches have will have well a lot of estate and know it commendable petrarch wants to get hundreds of churches in ukraine as a gift and definitely this is a very big. one but want a lot
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a big victory for him but we will see how ukrainian even empty russian clardy men how they will react they are already looking at city churches which they lose at something which they should have kept for themselves and in a couple of months time we will see a lot of discontent on the part of ukrainian clarges who now separated from russia fish surely they are not happy with the control from istanbul in the ne different areas so ok churches in one issue others the autonomy real autonomy now mr poroshenko reached the legitimize zation of split away churches but he cannot reach the result of destroying that part of the church which is in connection with russia at least once third of ukrainians will continue
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to be loyal to their up bra. those in bell are rules and then draw in all of that with the world and by the way what is interesting the decision of it can many go putter a kite he made ukrainian independence from russia church not be able to have their parishes that brought all these benches because they head will have to buzz directly to constantinople i said a good business that it would result mr protests k. i want to come to you now because we've had ukraine's security service chiefs warning that pollution can use what's happening now as a pretext for open military invasion what do you make of that i mean i think it's it's very small actually how action rhetoric i'm not a big fan of president putin but i think. he still. has to do that i mean he might actually do some very reserved in many cases and i don't think so you're willing to do that because that there cannot be situation russia is not really good also you
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know i mean even there's a rhetoric and there is something like the russians have against let's say the little people you. mean the ukrainian establishment you know i don't think so and you know russians are going to fight against the lonely brotherhood religion as far as this is concerned one of it's one thing to support separatist used in reviews to be done boss you know maybe it's if it's you know i'm not justifying just one thing but i don't think so i mean there's a lot of there are a lot of people from both sides of the military people who just you know using this rhetoric and i don't think it's on this like it's going to happen you know i mean we have one week of new york holidays nothing happened anywhere everything was much more calm so i don't contest is going to stand what happens now you know history tells us they splits very messy but from what all of you are saying that doesn't have to be the case here. well i don't want to play
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profiteers particular situation but as i will read you said i hold that we have to recognize the reality of the situation with a whole there will be good real politics involved in that a hold the inflammatory rhetoric over which probably will inevitably to consume you or for some time will eventually subsides and the reality of the situation will be recognized and the care will be taken by ball sites. for the ordinary billy was ordinary but he showed us a hole that the more school but your kill will recognize the new situation on the fans and also hold the the ukrainian state will if the respect it's all new independent church and gives it a real independence and allow it to do to develop you know a lot longer more kind of a light and. lines and respect the freedom of religion in general
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or i will we will have to end it on that for not i want to thank all of our guests that is not x. there and london we have valentino and kiev and alexander but in moscow and thank you too for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website that's al-jazeera dot com and for further discussion to go to our facebook page that facebook dot com forward slash a.j. and side story you can also join the conversation on twitter and in this at a.j. inside story from a as a prompt and the entire team here in doha but for now. i .
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