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tv   Inside Story 2019 Ep 21  Al Jazeera  January 22, 2019 2:32pm-3:02pm +03

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said were not peaceful global leaders are meeting in davos for the world economic forum as the i.m.f. warns of a worldwide slowdown us president donald trump is one of several leaders who stayed away to deal with domestic issues a un special rapporteur on human rights and been granted access to the bash on char island in bangladesh young healy will visit the area on thursday the uninhabited area is set to house more than one hundred thousand range of refugees but rights groups compared conditions on the island to living in a prison bangladesh hopes it will ease congestion in camps along the border and house of a seven hundred thousand ranger and more of service is being held in kenya for six people who were killed in an attack last tuesday twenty one people died when al-shabaab fighters storm the dusit hotel complex in nairobi five people arrested on suspicion of assisting the attackers appeared in court. all right well those are the headlines the news continues here on al-jazeera of the inside story stretching
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from sochi russia. they are there to keep the peace but many are killed targeted by armed groups the latest to die un troops in maui so what hope is there for u.n. efforts to keep the peace in conflicts around the world this is inside story. come to the program i'm richelle carey they are deployed to many of the world's trouble spots lightly armed with limited authority the united nations peacekeepers
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known as blue helmets have increasingly come under attack they've been repeatedly targeted and melly now the most dangerous mission to serve in on sunday ten soldiers from chad were killed when gunmen stormed the u.n. camp there to linked group says it carried out the attack and response to the gym president's decision to revive diplomatic ties with israel in reports a spike in violence against its peacekeepers a two thousand and seventeen fifty three were killed the highest number of deaths recorded by the international body so let's have a look at un peacekeeping missions more than one hundred thousand military police and civilian personnel from one hundred twenty five countries currently serving fifteen operations mainly in africa haiti kosovo cyprus india pakistan and the middle east the largest mission is in the democratic republic of congo over more than sixteen thousand. and troops are the un's budget for peacekeeping is six point
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seven billion dollars less than half of one percent of global military spending the us pays almost thirty percent of the bill china and japan the next biggest contributors with twenty percent between them. get our guests in a moment first we'll talk to joanne adamson deputy special representative of the secretary general and the united nations multi dimensional integrated stabilization force and mali she joins us via skype from palm thank you very much for joining us first of all very sorry about what has happened. to your team there what more can you tell us about what happened thank you very much air show for having me today so yes as you said we had a serious incident yesterday morning early in the morning when our camp in hawk in the very north of mali was attacked and unfortunately even though we feel very strongly and if repel an attack we lost ten peacekeepers or chaldean peacekeeping
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and a number of them were injured so that that was what happened yesterday but i want to stress that we were involved in in a firefight and we did defend also it's what is has been learned in the investigation to try to figure out how this happened we as we said there is a group that has claimed responsibility but what else have you learned since this is happened. yes thanks i mean the first thing i would say is only about twenty four hours after this incident took place it's a little bit too soon for us we will have an investigation as we always do and incidents like this we've sent reforms ments into the area and we also want to see how we can look after the population of alcohol because it's not just about an attack on our account but what that might mean to the muslim population so we are in the process of looking into into what happened but we do know that our and our troops on the ground and did fight back and repel the attack but unfortunately we
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did lose some peacekeepers i'm glad you brought up the broader community what is the relationship like between the un the un peacekeepers and the local community what's that relationship like well i would say that in general in mali we're very close cooperation with with the population in different parts of mali i mean. clearly we have a lot of people working in the north and one of our first concerns was what's the impact on the people i grew up hearing such as a fire fight so we are in touch with then and we've already heard from the government money there are regrets over what's happened and they're resolute resolve to to stay working with us so i would say that we cooperate very closely and our mission is about having the mali and to be able to stabilize that country to implement the peace accord but also to be able to offer basic services to ordinary citizens of money is that mission. in crisis right now is it under
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threat. no i wouldn't say it's in crisis i mean obviously there yesterday and any peacekeeper last is awful for us but i think you also have to look at the other things that we're doing an option and one of the last big roles is to how implemented peace accords signed in twenty fifteen and we've actually seen some progress on that over the last twelve to eighteen months we had elections last year in mali which the u.n. helped how to support the parties the peace accord and now talking to each other we had a disarmament and demobilization campaign to at the end of last month with some of the former fighters getting in their weapons and being reintegrate into society or into the mahdi army so i would say of course we always look when we have an incident like this why it happened and we try as quickly as possible to send reinforcements we grieve with the families who are affected from this but we stay focused on our mission which covers security and political issues but also
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developments and bringing change to ordinary people of mali join adamson thank you so much for joining us appreciate it very much thank you let's bring in our other guests now from new york adam de head of programs at the center for policy research at united nations university he's a former senior political advisor to us go in the congo and served in peace operations in sudan in the middle east also in new york by skype a severin or to say they're author of peace plan conflict resolution and the every day politics of international intervention and professor of political science at barnard college club again averse we thank you both for joining us so adam i'll start with you what with the similar question that i put to joe in. our u.n. peacekeeping efforts as a whole in crisis. well if it is a crisis it's a crisis has been happening for quite
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a long time i mean i think the incident in mali now pushes the number of casualties in that mission of over one hundred eighty over the last few years so it's certainly a trend that has been developing over time where as peacekeepers have been asked to do more and asked to use force more robustly at the same time they've become greater targets for the other armed actors on the ground and so i'm not sure if i'd characterize it as a crisis but it's certainly a trend that has prompted the secretary general to be very worried and to try and put in place some reforms to change the way peacekeeping is done and i've just to add that the former force commander in mali said that the mission was a counterterrorism mission without a counterterrorism mandate or resources and i think looking at how the mandate in the expectations in the resources do or do not match up is the conversation that's being taken place right now so easy is that what that what you just said that that type of conflict specific to malley or do what you described do you think that that
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applies to other missions as well where they have a certain task ahead of them but it's not necessarily married to the resources to make it happen. exactly i think that's exactly the right way to put it over time the large missions the the one in congo the one in central african republic the one in south sudan they all face very very large multidimensional mandates where the expectations of extension of state authority stabilisation protection of civilians are enormous and some of the reforms that are necessary. to end those mandates are something that are thought of in decades rather than short periods of time and so over time the expectations and the breadth of mandates of these missions i think is really gone beyond what the resources that are given to them can really can really meet that doesn't mean missions are unable to do a lot of things but i think when you think of the transformation at a national level that's expected in a place like congo or south sudan there is that there is
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a gap that needs to be considered ok you gave us a lot to circle back and and talk about but first i want to put a similar question to the severing would you characterize the status of current peacekeeping efforts by the u.n. in a state of crisis how would you characterize it. i don't know if i would use the word crisis but there are not certainly a lot of difficulties and i think that it is not necessarily based only on the resources that is converse hassle of course the creature says we're talking about a budget in terms of financial resources that seems huge seven billion of them in fact it will point five per cent of all military spending we're talking about the yorkshire military force to be deployed to road after the us military and again with that the peacekeepers are expected to resolve a quarter of all of the world's comes so that means and nuclear program in terms of
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resources but the problem to me the ice if you want to use that is more in the way these resources are used to usually as we've heard the united nations focuses only in the then focus on organizing general elections they focus on results in conflict from the. i talking with governments and working with the governmental be with scrambled leaders and most of them and the don't spend enough attention working with people on the wrong and interacting with local communities and that creates such a disconnect and in spreading difficult for peacekeepers to do their job and to do all of the tasks that adam was mentioning severin that's a great point that you brought up and i know you've talked a lot about this that you say that there is a lot of focus on top down as opposed to bottom up when you say focusing local from the bottom up what do you mean what type of thing show the really
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important things you for i think through for instance in many capital great are important tracks trafficking is very important in terms of proposal conflicts in terms of the reasons why people are fighting on the front and also why strong. there are opposing united nations peacekeepers all when you get to congo that that we just mentioned conjunto very land owner who's going to have to have to send who's going to be the big chief the traditional chief of the district these are the reasons why people are fighting most of the time when they meet with battens where there i mean stand with i mean close but i mean to the left and tell me they're not fighting to know who's going to be the next presidential the next rebel did yours most people are fighting because they want to know who's going to control the plane but the tanks with the how big are the repent the supplements that they can come to
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make feel they can feed their families they can send your children to school there are often fine things or who will have you know whole accent that in addition to the national and international issues that are always these things and bench united nations peacekeeping missions always focus on atom i feel knotting it seems that you are in agreement with severing on that if you want to add something. yeah absolute agreement not just add also the top down or the focus on state institutions and governments which is the traditional un way of dealing with with conflicts has increasingly put the un in a difficult position with what we kind of mildly called difficult governments so if you look at a place like darfur or currently in south sudan or in congo the engagement in the support to state institutions that are run by by governments that have shown themselves willing to displace and kill thousands of people puts the u.n. in an incredibly difficult position and often the use of force alongside the troops
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of those governments in a place like congo from the local perspective aligns the u.n. with the government in a way that can put peacekeepers at risk so i think what severino is pointing to and the lack of engagement with the local community i think the un does often engage with the local communities in certain ways but i think the converse which is that focus on supporting state institutions is often putting the u.n. in a difficult position when it comes to the perception of impartiality in these countries and that's made more difficult by the robust use of force and in some cases ok and yet you talk about the tension that there may be with the local community obviously that tension is exacerbated when something happens that is what we have found by and investigations in the last few years that some u.n. peacekeepers have been committing crimes against some of the locals those types of things that ma'am sure exacerbates how some locals feel about the u.n. severin has there been
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a robust enough effort to get to the bottom of those things that for there to be some accountability so that the u.n. does have credibility with the local community unfortunately everybody i talked to at the u.n. term me that the enforcement to know a way to think that they're going to now and most urgent. to move them have. actually come to. so for instance it we're going to have rules that forbid all of the peacekeepers on the run to have an rink ways. with members of the local population or two countries or to divorce or to go to church and this was our man to choose of all the british and sexual exploitation in the pew and in fact if you are an actual predator you have you know you i mean this is not a result that some of our friends who come from doing what you want to do the people who missed thank the law and just not interacting with the local people and then just being forced to defend it when peacekeepers and most opposition transfers
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and i've been told hundreds and was going on the run that they don't have all of the ending of the local conflicts we're talking of they don't have a good relationship with the communities they don't have the intention that they need to do to prevent attacks like the one that we saw in many yet today so it makes the peacekeepers much well going are both much more much that and then prevent sexual exploitation and abuse bigger than by the couples people who really want to harm the little publication by the local women and children and men that it's not a bunch of going to prevent them from doing such out of and and to that point i mean i'm curious what you would like to add to that do you think that the u.n. even began strong grasp what it what it would take for them to stop those types of things from happening it comes back to what severin has been saying and what you
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are been saying it seems like that this is so much more about about really understanding the local communities were where you are. yeah and i agree with severin again and i think it's an interesting conundrum though because i remember being in eastern congo and talking to some of the troops and talking about their engagement in the communities and when you have instances of sexual exploitation abuse the tendency of the mission is to say ok reduce the contact with communities to to keep that distance but exactly talking to people in the communities and engaging with the people in the communities is what needs to be done to understand the local dynamic and so it creates this tension within the mission where you want to be engaged and part of the community but also have enough distance to avoid those kind of situations so i do think it's a dilemma where there isn't an easy. answer and i think that there is the zero tolerance policy and some of that is being implemented but again. really understanding the limits of peacekeeping in some of these situations is part of the
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story and really having implementing that zero tolerance policy and being willing to send troops home if they violate it is part of the story as well so we talked a lot about how it would be very important to have a focus on you know from the bottom up but clearly. the top to the bottom is also important how do those two things work in n. tand adam out put that to you first and then we'll go to separate. well i just came back from south sudan and i think there's an interesting dynamic there where i think the mission is doing work at the local level to do conflict resolution around issues of cattle land riverine rights and seeing that as related to the national peace process in south sudan seeing that for example roughly eighty percent of the cattle actually have partial ownership by the powerbrokers in juba and understanding that resolution of local conflicts can filter back up and help stabilize situations to support the peace process but also that when the leaders of
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a country like salva kiir and react machar make a statement that they're willing to explore peace there is the possibility for greater reconciliation at the local level and i think that the civil affairs for example in an miss is doing an excellent job in seeing those links and beginning to tease them out it doesn't mean it solves the problem but that that analysis of understanding that there is no distinction between local and national in the minds of the people that are involved in this is i think a first step and and defining that analysis is something i do see happening in some of the missions today severing the seas some of the same. yet except the friends they have who hunt trying to brutal conflict resolution into practice in united nations peacekeeping mission they always tell me that it is the result of resistance from their colleagues from the united nations leadership in new york would tell them oh i don't need to you know priority should be interacting with the need to be interacting with government and to do that again to me and who are
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a friend a huge problem because if you want result in the armed or not in congo like he finally met you and you want to rid of all of the local comp and adamant i have been working out you need to do that and rest would rebel and most important. i and yours right united nations if it were diplomats who didn't know who. well you can imagine you and i or as arms were intended to go to the news or comedy spillage and say oh we know what's going on and we're going to solution your problem that it would be incomplete it didn't work since your great united nations work. usually a great work is done relying on the edges in people from foreign countries in the pacific the later on is it closure rate and do we how does additions to your problem and then tell you what we're going to do you resolve your problem and we of
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course read a lot of resentment among local people and also at the need to know do we resolve our conflict within those everybody's i think the whole thing do you think that more local hires you think more local hires what would make a difference not necessary yes yes local hires would be good this was really important in the number of people it is the responsibility given because you do have a lot of local people who work within the united nations peacekeeping mission and they work and why protest security courts as the french are based on people who are implementing projects total consigned by foreigners and what i think we need is to political will people in decision making positions to give them any responsibility in finding the programs they don't dare go put on your understanding of the local conditions out of it as you said as the secretary general is keenly aware and concerned about what's going on there is this you know general talk of reforms but
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what type of reforms and we've talked a whole a lot about the types but the things that you are talking about take time what what what can you see happening and media late to make a difference if anything prank with very little immediately will make a huge difference one one reform that i think is sometimes on the scene but they could make a big difference is on the management side which is there's an idea to give greater delegated authority to missions to make decisions about how they use their. any and what i've found is exactly the dynamic that severing her for two is is the closer you get to the field the better understanding you have about what the dynamics are and the better able you are to respond to it delegating authority into the field and giving them greater autonomy to be more flexible and dynamic with their use of funds could help there that could be a fairly quick. answer i think there are certain capacities that the secretary general has prioritized. if you see if you think of peacekeeping as roughly shrinking over time now having
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a smaller static footprint greater mobility assets helicopters the ability to get out to some of these areas faster could have a quick response and impact in a place like mali as well where i think they're considering that so there are there are some kind of operational things that could shift i think really what would make a difference is a different form of engagement with countries ahead of sending a mission in and really testing the political will before you decide to send a big mission in and understanding that in some countries you may not have much political traction from the beginning and be willing to look that in the face and say maybe sending peacekeepers in at this point isn't the best option so thinking about mandating and understanding the context you're going into testing political will with governments early i think is one of the key things that could be done quite right away actually i didn't mention interesting points that severing how about that how about the idea of a little more analysis being a little more sober minded about about what it is you're going to do before you
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even go to these places. then it would be wrong to fill in and the other reform that i then was mentioning giving more autonomy to peacekeeping missions to peacekeepers on the ground that would also be and tactic but i would like to add one more thing i think the un can also make a region want to be a trick or treat in human resources in that the wounded left in poland that they send to the c.e.o. and all of the criteria they use to recruit people to the way things work right now and that's one reason welcome. to the n.p.c. so the people who are already there the greetings of the nation who implemented a lot of the programs that we were talking about in terms of its authority in terms of elections and then during term action the population all of the people are recruited based on what they call what angle the schematics on whether the no bad center of human life survives an election potential and not about whether they know
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something about the club three others will age well they're going to be working so you mentioned you have a ph d. in of gender studies well and you were sent to a home to work on gender in maggie or in congo is in the thing about money or bust it's really difficult for you to do anything and yet you can go on the job going take a lot of time and you know enough above the local conditions to be effective i to be able to pay for what you do to the local context and so the first end of implementing hands and arms and the kind of cut and paste responses that if you do well in it and then they they use again in congo and then it's like them yeah and then you then well you're going to really need to recruit people could know about the local conditions for so she's talking yes and apologies political scientists found out it's the all of them after all this and these others to be on tree are
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set on that. yeah but. i'm so sorry severin i could let you talk all day because you have. such a great perspective but that will have to be the last for both of you is a wonderful important conversation thank you so much adam day and severino to sarah appreciate it and thank you for watching you can see the program again at any time if you go our website al-jazeera dot com for the discussion about our facebook page that's facebook dot com ford slash a.j. and side story you can also join the conversation on twitter our handle is at ha inside story for me richelle carey the entire team i put out.
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sat here has never been a real easy sell for investment how much are the reserves are they understated or are still. they own those shares your company for the people by the. weather online i want to start here on my laptop with a tweet or if you join us on sat there was a rush of adrenaline this is the moment that we have been waiting for this is a dialogue the government has a legal protest and instructed police to disperse the crowds everyone has a voice. it's a few reasons different types of bricks join the global conversation on al-jazeera
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. al-jazeera. where ever you. are the top stories on protests there's a back on the streets in sudan as anger grows over the government's crackdown on dissent the opposition says forty seven people have now been killed since demonstrations began last month in the government raise the price of bread. and an anti-government activist in sudan has gone missing sources have told. was arrested by security agents he was last seen on wednesday when he went shopping in the
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capital zimbabwe's human rights commission is accusing security forces of systematic torture after recent protests turned violent president emerson mongo is calling for a national dialogue to address the protests over rising living costs and i got condemned demonstrations which he said were not peaceful but he also criticised the police response. when he made those comments just hours after cutting short his trip abroad way he'd been looking for foreign investment shah bellus reports. zimbabwe's president emerson man and dog were to seemed at the steps of his least seven eight seven digits this is one of the world's most luxurious private planes he had used it for a fundraising mission to russia kazakhstan. men and dog were took off ten days ago just hours after stunning zimbabwe ends with the news he was doubling fuel prices due to an economic crisis on the tarmac the man he
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had left in charge vice president general constantino chewing. when people demonstrated.


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