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tv   Inside Story 2019 Ep 54  Al Jazeera  February 23, 2019 8:32pm-9:01pm +03

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president state of emergency on mother bashir announcing he was dissolving the government but just hours later appointing a new minister a top catholic cardinal has admitted that the church files on priests who sexually abused children were destroyed or never even created a german cardinal reinhard marx was speaking at a meeting in vatican city have been calls for a new culture of accountability in the catholic church which pope francis which led pope francis to call for a four day conference the saudi crown prince says china has the right to fight against extremism to protect its own national security one had been said man made the remarks during a visit to beijing is being seen as a reference to china's crackdown against the leader muslim minority rights groups say china's detained about one million weak is in what beijing says are reeducation camps those are the headlines inside story is next.
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and to settle it is this said to be on the rise in europe and at its worst level in decades some countries are promising a crackdown but are they doing enough and would noodles be sufficient this is inside story. hello and welcome to the program i'm a hood of the hamid french president emmanuel mccall says anti semitism is at its worst level since the second world war and this week he introduced
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a bill that would make. a criminal offense so what's the difference anti semitism hostility and prejudice directed against jewish people is a ready legal in france and opposition to the state of israel could soon be two now elsewhere in europe twelve m.p.'s resigned from their parties in the u.k. nine labor three conservatives citing the failure to deal with anti semitism as one of the reasons and the use says hate speech and harassment are becoming the new norm so is anti semitism a growing problem in europe and are jewish people being singled out we'll discuss that with our guests shortly but first david chaytor with more from paris. the french president emmanuel macron was saying that anti semitism has now reached its worst levels since the second world war figures published for last year show the number of anti-semitic attacks and risen by seventy four percent now france has
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the biggest jewish community in europe of course and he was speaking to community leaders at an annual dinner he promised a new legislation to ban hate speech on the internet he also asked his interior minister to take action to ban extreme right wing groups who were promoting and fueling violence and discrimination but perhaps the most significant thing is that he said that he would now consider taking action to make auntie's zionism part of anti semitism legislation we don't know exactly what form or shape that will take or when it will take place but of course the zionist movement was the political movement that established israel is israel as the homeland for jews in palestine now this is a very controversial measure it's been proposed by some of the m.p.'s in his own
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party before but he turned his back on it so this is a significant development to include anti zionism in the legislation against anti semitism their opinion commission says a staggering ninety percent of jews feel that anti-semitism is getting worse and four in ten are thinking about leaving europe. in france there's been a seventy four percent rise in offenses against jews in the last year while in germany a sixty percent increase in violent attacks in belgium and poland ninety two percent of jews experience anti semitism online including social media and internet a land seventy one percent were abused on the streets and in public spaces. ok so now let's bring in our panel in london yossi mechelle burke he is a professor in international relations at regents university in port only in poland
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via skype isn't it bill of each chair at the center for research and prejudice at the university of war so and in paris you go devotional political theorist at the university of nottingham in the u.k. gentlemen welcome to the show you go to the show let me start with you i mean president of money on mccall saying that anti semitism is as its worst level since the second world war it's quite a bold statement doesn't reflect reality it probably does to a degree i mean my core has been saying these types of things for a while now already last year during the commemorations of the village which is where jews were park during second world war before being sent off to the concentration camps he was making these types of statement before we saw that one of recent polls suggesting that seventy four percent there is an increase of seventy four percent in terms of anti semitic attacks so i don't know for exactly the same moment as war two but there's certainly been
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a marked increase in the last two to three years in ninety seven it isn't in france for sure. and you'll see it is when we talk about anti semitism in the twenty first century is it the same thing as what is it similar to do one of the twentieth century or the differences there. some of it is the same unfortunately it and some of the more modern and different in the. you know mentioning funds yes you know it went space seventy incidents and semitic incidents went up by more than seventy percent there were five hundred and forty one incidents in france some of them of the same sort of it talks on jews blaming jews of controlling the media controlling finals having too much influence and war and conflicts in the world basically controlling the world and this is very similar not only twenty century but nineteenth century about affinities the tie for which is
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a mix which is day on to scientists and i think it's very important to look at their definition of the international holocaust remember the lines which will this modern type of news and so if i'm to some it isn't which which conflates between criticism in the gym it's one of the government of israel and the right of jews to have self-determination i think that's a very important distinction that we will discuss a bit further in the program but i just wanted to bring in michelle because i mean france is not the only country that is facing this wave of anti semitism do you think it is part of a why don't read a lot of racism that is on the rise throughout europe oid this is specifically targeted i just at the jews of europe. our research finds that this
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time it is very strongly correlated to other forms of prejudice to racism xenophobia and you really see that there were he creases in people's distancing her negative attitudes towards jews just after the so-called migration crisis when actually some of hopi and anti muslim attitudes went up in europe so you could really see that the more racist attitudes dominate across europe to you know just become more more often discussed targets of scapegoating as well well it is very interesting because as you said and i'm bringing this question to good is that there was this huge wave of anti immigrant that brought all these populist governments or leaders it to the forefront across europe but it's very difficult to understand how it went from anti immigrants were mostly coming let's say from the middle east or africa how did that translate into anti semitism. i
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think yesterday there's a question here every time there's uncertainty and i think we're going through a period of uncertainty and instability and i think there was a shocks if you want of bragg's that in the u.k. trumps elections in the rise of the far right in populism in europe and the time is uncertainty kind of the old prejudices back come back in kick back in and we've seen interest in our studies in terms of every time there's a bit of uncertainty conspiracy theories arise massively and of course a strong links as read as read to be mentioned by some of the previous speakers stronger between the conspiracy theories and anti semitism dating back onto the nineteenth century so it's part of a broader broader mix i think it's important to remember that i did some it isn't it's not like it's gone anywhere but it's the case that with certain developments notably social media technological developments on the one hand and also what you see in terms of the rise of the far right and populist movements
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a lot of sentiment sent semitism those probably not more in the open as it was previously now has been given a kind of a free reign both because of social media that allows that type of speech which was and there beforehand and also the rise of the far right movements and also street protests we've we've asked lots of questions about the link between anti semitism and the type of yellow vest as usual and protest i mean happening in france for a while and we've had anti semitic incidents within those movements and so pro so it's not that it's going away it's just that there are certain factors political factors into the technological developments that have allowed anti-semitism to kind of rear its ugly head once again and how do you think you also agree that social. you know social media the internet all of that has played a role in just reading also maybe some vicious rumors about the role of jews in anything that's happening in europe at the moment and not only the jews but we're talking about anti semitism in this program. yeah i think that this is
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a general chant in general she does happen because of the use of social media as a primary source of information for people and the emotionality of the language and emotionality of hate speech which is on the internet effected attitudes that people have in europe toward different groups but also toward jews and this is also true about beliefs in jewish conspiracy that are very much spread and when you hear the statements by persons who kill jews in the synagogue in pittsburgh you can see exactly the same arguments that you can hear from politicians in eastern europe in hungary or in poland blaming jews for immigration blaming jews for liberal values well yes they you raise an important point earlier i think it's very. important that women when i say again is to define exactly what is anti semitism. yeah and i think in the sense that the international holocaust remember the line
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set it very clear but the thing to to also to your previous one i think there is because of you know the social media on one hand is a wonderful platform that allows people to express themselves on the other hand it's also creates some sort of legitimacy today via list of ideas including the way that we treat the other and in some cases the jews and other you know other minorities or migrants but i think we need to concentrate of that if the definition of what is and isn't it isn't how you know the hater to reduce which is which is not new but in its modern. manifestation it says to do or so to do with we for having get a jewish state which is in the in the heart of control overseas quite often but also how it's money for states money first it's sort of in your bear in mind on the
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eve of the second world war there were nine point four million jews in the continent now the around one point three million and you know over and gradually we'll see it in public opinion polls that more and more people don't even know the dollar cost existed let alone they have detailed understanding of it and i think it's means that we need more education sometimes legislation that i logged in order to eradicate it but do you think that a this proposed new law that would make basically make banned at any criticism of. design is speech you think that it should go under the umbrella of anti semitism. i'm always worried when you try to legislate values and we start putting people into our lives and they believe in education in dialogue and try to actually appeal to the understanding of favorites of and and
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winning housen and minds but i think in certain cases when it's course a certain lines sadly we'll need we need also legislation of course any such legislation should not prevent people from having legitimate criticism of any country and leadership in the world because i'm asking this question also because this israeli government has always been quite sensitive to any kind of criticism and we had some israeli leaders who immediately countered that criticism by saying this is anti semitism by having such a law you're basically banning any kind of criticism of a government right. that's exactly the dangerous not entirely clear in the way that's going to be legislated in france but i agree with the sentiments i would just for expressed before on clearly don't need to be a distinction between criticizing the existence of the state of israel and
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criticizing the actions of the state of israel and of course certain israeli leaders kind of hide behind the idea that what you're criticizing is israel because you're criticizing our policies but that's obviously there are two separate things and it's very difficult obviously lying to hold but it's a one line i think that needs to be held and this is one of the questions they'll be for my course ror i think and inversely what's interesting with it is that if you say dodd's criticizing the actions of these radios stage is anti semitic in many ways you're actually giving credence and legitimacy to the type of anti-semitism that he expressed by in the far left on the far right which is a lot of it is criticizing israel of course and so if you put the two new to cover you're saying actually you're right if you criticize israel down your anti semitic and that's part of the problem we need to keep to be able to keep those two aspects distinct because of course there's a lot of people want to criticize the actions of the state of israel including also
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jews and green also jews in europe in israel itself and in america too but there's a difference between criticizing the actions of the state of israel and criticizing israel itself and did way that those laws that my core is going to try to push through it's going to be have to be quite clear that is a separation between that which is why as your previous and speaker was saying the quest as a definition is very very key here and we have a how do you see that i mean it is a very blurry line really at this particular moment how you know a desert in point also europeans can start being a bit scared oh my god if i open my mouth or criticize a israel's prime minister i might be accused of being add to sematic because at this sort of point you can use these blanket definitions over everything so how do you think that should be finessed if i can say is that would. i actually
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support to some of these legends that are intended to ban hate speech or or public expression of hate for it and in several cases it really works now when it comes to anti-semitism there has been some phantom time for example a polish government tried to ban criticism of poland recently the famous holocaust low which led to the to the pressure to suppress some forms of open expression of it's a criticism about the behavior of ulster in the past the worst us and so so you know there are some nuances here of course but what i really think is really crucial is the role of the leaders and the role of political leaders after the attack on the french philosopher i don't think a quote. from one micro expressed very openly that there is no place for anti-semitism in france no i didn't have not hear such strong statements from the leaders of east european countries from either or about or from from.
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europe from can change your underage children poland and we really are. just people in poland of face very. strong care and he said tendencies that are not confronted by the leaders and psychologically we know that this statement of the leaders creates the norm and the norm is very essential for changing people's behavior yes i guess this is also a very confusing image. because on ones i had and this israeli government as we said earlier could be very intolerant toward any kind of criticism but then on the other had we see prime minister netanyahu causing with people like viktor orban from hungary any and he comes from the far right and it's very confusing as an image. well if it's any help you're not the only one confused by this kind of behavior i'm confused too but you know that's
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a problem and it goes back to what the previous speaker was saying about the role of leaders and their bit consistency in coherent attitudes why you cozying up to someone that has such an extreme views against the against migron think is jews and and you know there is nothing i can say in favor of what that anya is doing us in which you post to news and think you can you can have both policies in the same time which which i think in the long even in the show them is wrong i think a lot of it is to actually use common sense and common sense most people understand when the criticism if you criticize the blockade on gaza or don't you patient or rest under arrest in the middle of the night of people keeping them we felt by this is nothing to do we feel we're fine to some it is and this is a to do we've we've the whole of the occupation to be a view of the state of israel on the other hand if you say on the other hand that
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the state of israel is no i to exist as a jewish state this is a completely different thing and this is one when the lungs called and most people understand but it's also fully the really to said the line and not to use it full as you i think imply to use for thought you knew stick reasons yeah but you see now i mean you know i had completely agree with your distinction between the two the two scenarios and but as you said if now anyone is going to criticize an incursion into gaza or you know the random raids in the way ok by d'huez bank they could be immediately slapped with this auntie's iran is build and they could be made little that they're illegal because they're too you know they did they went against the law by to by criticizing that. what this means that the law is badly phrased basically devised loesch to be divided in a way that will make it clear this distinction between between the two what is
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criticism legitimate criticism of israel as one of the previous speakers was saying this actually play into the hands of the far right if israel is above criticism and the jewish state's is not this place into actually custer and to some it isn't but this is control of other countries in the media this is not the point the lowest will be very clear where the line is drawn between between the two and then if it's not maybe it's better not to have a look at it go. now what really pushed president mccall to come up with this at this particular time. well as i showed that actually it's not the first time he's mentioned this he did mention this a couple of years ago when he was commemorating and d. to develop deaves which was as i said when the jews were parked the french jews were parked in as a sports arenas in a north of paris before being sent over of center to concentration camp so it's
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something that's been there before and remember this is not the first time we've semitic kind of attacks and problems in france to a couple of years ago now or so there as it was last year excuse me was was an elderly lady that seem to have been killed because of an anti-semitic so it's not new and already back then he had said that maybe did it all had to be changed so so it's there obviously because it is usual and it's taken on a specific kind of attitude that perhaps it didn't have before i think there's two things to add to it is that one is part of the law there is a question about the zionism but he's also there's an element against hate speech and the role that social media's play on that and i think it's important and interesting but i would add i think the political statement to say an ism is a new form of anti semitism although i completely agree with what's been discussed in terms of we need to make sure that we're defining to white terms here that criticizing some of the actions of state of israel is not the same as anti-semitism
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but at the same time it's true that a lot of anti-semitism today hides behind a critique of criticism of the state of israel so politically i think mike was right to say that that's true however legally needs to be quite clear the separation there is between criticizing the state of israel and actually anti semitism which might not be exactly the same thing let me tell you in a place where there's actually a kind of a political rally brewing between poland and israel but could you see if this bill really passes in france could you see that being repeated in other european countries. yeah i could imagine that did this form of legislation could could be transferred to another country sense since many years american jewish communities is fighting for the foundation of the of the working definition of anti-semitism for example that there will be a shared agreement between countries about what is anti-semitism and what is not and also in piece of criticism of this route like i can understand that and this is
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what we also it distinguish in our research that the criticism that goes as far as to delegitimize the existence of this route so to say that israel has no right to exist or they react they wrecked references to the holocaust or to direct state comparisons between what happens today in israel and between the third reich this is actually going beyond what can be accepted yes all this is already anti-semitic and i think that there could be a pressure and agreement not only in europe in the maybe even in the in muslim states outside of europe because i believe that after hearing two hundred percent this panel and that there might be some some shared understanding of when when the criticism of israel transgressors the porters of becoming the seventy well certainly the figures show that anti semitism is on the rise as much as xander phobia i would say around many countries but we have reached
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the end of this program so thanks to our guests yes the mecca book believe it or so and thank you too for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website dot com and for further discussion go to our facebook page that's facebook dot com forward slash a.j. inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter handle is at a.j. inside story from me about that hammoud and the whole team here by find out.
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