tv Inside Story 2019 Ep 74 Al Jazeera March 16, 2019 10:32am-11:01am +03
killed the s.d.f. says the attack highlights how difficult it is or it has been to wrap up their offensive hundreds of thousands of gerry and once again protested demanding president. resign weeks of demonstrations have already forced the president to drop this bid for a fifth term. tropical cyclone to die continues to bring heavy rain and risks of flooding as a disintegrates over. the cycle and has hit speeds of up to one hundred seventy kilometers per hour affecting hasa million people in the coastal city of bear many of whom are without power more than one hundred twenty people have been killed in mozambique malawi and south africa as heavy rains hit the region over the past week . well those are the headlines the news continues here after inside story. of the course this week he's on a mission to save the internet we'll talk to tim berners lee inventor of the world
wide web we'll look at what safari called his tubing up with china's biggest e-commerce company counting the cost. britain's m.p.'s vote for an extension from the european union the prime minister remains determined to get her deal through parliament how will the e.u. leaders respond and where does the brains of process go from here this is inside story. how long welcome to the program and has them seek a back my deal all risk losing bragg's it all together that is what british prime minister theresa may is telling m.p.'s with just two weeks to go until the shed you leave date on march twenty ninth m.p.'s voted on thursday to delay breaks it until
at least june once again the break that scenario is as murky as ever they could be a long delay an exit with may's deal a disorderly exit without a deal or even another referendum paul brennan reports from london. what a mess the u.k. parliament is divided and deadlocked a delay to bret's it now seems inevitable the only question is for how long the government says rejecting to recent deal would narrow the options to just one we would be faced with the prospect of choosing only a long extension during which the house would meet up need to face up to the choices in front of it and the consequences of the decisions that it has taken the government's proposal was to ask the e.u. for a one off extension until june the thirtieth to allow time for a third attempt by theresa may to have her twice rejected bracks a deal pushed through parliament but with just ten working days left before the
march twenty ninth deadline m.p.'s are feeling exasperated and rebellious and an attempt by one group to seize control of parliamentary time next wednesday was only narrowly defeated by just two votes a separate amendment proposing another bracketed referendum was rejected by a majority of two hundred forty nine votes and the main government motion passed by a comfortable two hundred ten yards to the right four hundred twelve the nose to the left two hundred and two i think we're moving towards potentially as a result of this week in parliament potential a softer break thicker that's the only route now to a majority although if those on the right of trees major party realise this then they could be one final push towards a deal the european union is exasperated to the e.u. leaders summit is next thursday in brussels and if the recent maze deal is rejected a third time by parliament next tuesday some leaders aren't minded to grant the
u.k. an extension at all what is detention of the british parliament what are what are the choices of the british authorities. to need more time we need more decision in washington the irish prime minister discussed it with the us president donald. said he'd given theresa may some negotiating advice advice that she hadn't taken i think it could have been negotiated in a different manner frankly i hate to see it being everything being ripped apart right now i don't think another vote would be possible because it would be very unfair to the people who won in all the confusion no one thing has become clear unless the e.u. rejects the u.k. request britain is not leaving the european union as shuttled on march twenty ninth paul brennan al-jazeera westminster so what happens now all the lame brags it can happen only if european union leaders approve all twenty seven must unanimously agree to extend article fifty the clause in the e.u.
treaty for the united kingdom to leave to resign may says the extension shouldn't be longer than three months she says she'll try for a third time to get her withdrawal the are passed by the house of commons next wednesday if this fails may will seek more time at the delay could mean the u.k. has to take part in european parliament elections in may. let's bring in our guest now in london is catherine mcbride senior economist in the international trading competition unit at the institute of economic affairs joining us sir via skype from chisinau more dover is down our car or black line associate professor at the school of law and government at dublin city university and in berlin we have john worth the european union affairs blogger and visiting lecturer at the college of europe in bruges welcome all three of you good to have
you with us let me start with you catherine mcbride in london since you are where it is all happening to recent british prime minister it's recent may is is planning to get this withdrawal agreement. into parliament again on tuesday to try for a third time even though it's been defeated convincingly twice before what do you think m.p. should do i'm not sure what she's planning on doing she's already announced or at least people are already talking about bringing it back for a fourth time. the people who are opposing it and not just people like that do you pee who have a very definite problem with the irish backstop and obviously you could hear a lot about the european research group opposing it but you've also got the people who actually want the u.k. to stay in the u. or have a second referendum also opposing it so i i really don't understand why she's bringing back the same legislation for
a third time i think if she wants to move people on this she has to actually change the amendment and it's without any changes to it i don't see how people should be able to vote vote for it if they've been opposed to it was she she is zero dollars that she's pretty much saying that this is the deal there is nothing else at this point and the e.u. are sensibly saying the same thing that they're not going to renegotiate this it's is she trying to run down the clock here so people will be staring at the possibility of no deal in the face and they will think again and go with the deal it's on the table. well actually i think that that would be a great thing because it's much better off for the u.k. to leave without a trade deal we've already organized most of the small details a lot of the transport deals the airline deals most of
a lot of things that need to be done have already been done. so i'm not at all frightened of leaving the e.u. without a trade agreement which is basically what the withdrawal agreement was meant to be but it's been turned into a capitulation to the e.u. it's not a deal at all it's a capitulation so there's really not any you know it's crazy that anyone should vote for it she's offering them a really bad choice or leave without a deal which is actually looking like a much better choice now and it's only two weeks away so why would anyone give up now. you know what she's offering is just not breaks it and it's not good for ireland so why not just leave john john was a c. shaken your head furiously there the possibility of a no deal. that couldn't be more wrong what catherine mcbride has just said britain is extremely ill prepared for leaving the european union with a no deal it has no idea how it's going to manage to make sure that the ferries
should still run its adequate capacity to make sure its goods can still go through to have a callee the main ferry routes for exports and imports into the u.k. it's been only capable of rolling over about one sixth of the international agreements that it has with the rest of the world so it cause major disruption to britain's economic relations with its nearest neighbors if it crashed out without a deal and the irony that they're also for cut from abroad also just said about the issue in northern ireland you'd have to put a hard border between northern ireland in the republic of ireland if there were no deal brecht's it to crash out within two weeks so what she's saying is deeply irresponsible and that's not a sensible solution either for the u.k. or indeed members of parliament there are only a hardcore of about fifty hardcore breaks it is who are foolish enough to contemplate that catherine the bride i mean to be in the government and then they can have that have said that that that that that they could be the to enter great deal of disruption in a no deal scenario would he say to that. well no that's not true in fact the not
only of the british ferry companies and dover ready for this but the cal a mayor of cali. bertran is very very adamant that he is completely ready for this you know this is just not true that we're going to have a problem the other issue is that no one is going to suddenly change the way they do business because that's not sensible economics so the idea that we suddenly need to put up a hard border across our land is crazy if that is if you know the cattle families in heavily ready soon brussel north you know dodgy made across it's not going to happen you know it may in twenty or thirty in you know nature or some diverge right but right now sorry. that's such a we take our on on the you know all right we let's take an example that we know off to the example of porsche cars porsche has already said that any british customers buying a porsche car in the case of
a new deal bricks it will be charged ten percent extra because that will be the customs levy that will be placed on the import of those cars into the u.k. in the case of a new deal bret's it that has also been confirmed of the chair of the uteri are you what is your government m b. oh look do you deny that that's true segment of the car market ok no the u.k. will be in charge of it you not only that is true it will the size deny that that is true that law should have will be learnt. of course i have said that but they are assuming that the u.k. is going to add the same tariff as the e.u. they don't pay a lot as we have been known for them to do they want to impose those tariffs on car companies you are essentially making it up as you go along you also have rejected you know what they will say the interviews are all that's are it's another name of the seller and also i know i'm sure the two of you can go about in full is still on
i'm so sorry if i am poor let's go live a bit most of the population are not poor strive as and if you can afford a porsche you can probably afford it i want to bring in a cent and i want to bring and i want to bring down our. take on this because where where island is this has huge implications for the republic of ireland of course and for northern ireland so i want to i want to get his take on this obviously people in the republic of ireland are deeply concerned about about breaks it and where it's going and how it's going to affect them. just just highlight for us what what one of the big concerns there with this and when with this whole idea of the as the irish backstop and and how it affects the. agreements did the peace peace deal with northern mali. well there is a unity of purpose in jobs and in the parliament it crosses all parties the problem
is minority government the ruling party is only a third of the seats in the parliament and all the parties have united behind a common position in favor of preserving the gains of the peace process and preserving the strong and gracious ship we have with you know the kingdom with the european union the north and south and certainly a new deal breaks it would jeopardize that it's often neglected to the south because the g.o.p. approach of you know a key role in propping up the government of britain is often forgotten that the majority of people in northern ireland are also favor of this irish box up as it's called that would essentially preserve a frictionless order unless and until an alternative arrangement could be sorted out so this is something that unites people north and south irrespective of their political opinions and from the beginning the arab governments position is that there has been there's no upside to prices it's only a matter of damage limitation it will hurt the economy it will hurt the peace process it has already polarized people in northern ireland where we have tried to put the constitutional issue on the back burner for perhaps
a generation to make more work with power sharing by the d.p. get involved in a power sharing government in northern ireland when they are essentially propping up the whole system in the united kingdom and indeed have a veto on the holbrooks of process so that this is something and by the way there was a recent proposal that came out of her majesty's government which was in the event of an order to break that they simply wouldn't more or less levy any any customs duties on any goods there traveling between the republican guard and norton aren't and that's nonsense you can't have two regulation regimes without somebody policing as it's just simply an attempt to foist the blame on the european union are indeed on drugs and for erecting a border where the border is essential there's two sides to every border and u.k. is becoming something of a rogue regime and it's been difficult to actually regulators and but elect our son and yesterday's on its you talked to you took the earlier there are about the divisions within. northern ireland the unionists in northern ireland are concerned that this backstop essentially treating the whole island of ireland as as kind of
a separate country that's a big no no for them isn't it because that's not that's not what they're that what they want to them that that is a path to a united ireland isn't it isn't that a legitimate concern. well two things there one when you say the union is a problem we were talking primarily here about the do you see who got about a third of the vote in the last election opinion poll suggests that about two thirds of the population don't want nor in our state but in the customs union distancing the marks of the g.o.p. are not representing the people of north americans on this issue and therefore i think it's important to stress that at the outset in terms of prospects of united aren't just sometimes mentioned that's something that nobody really wants to address right now i mean there's been a demographic shift in northern ireland over the years you know four of the six counties in order is now up national majorities should faine is the largest party in belfast and in derry but i think there was a consensus that there's a good friday agreement created an environment where apologies to be made to work within northern art and as i said this some jeopardized by critics and but we just
saw that on the issue of the replacing the border and you were saying about nor going to be treated differently the interesting thing about the british government's proposal is that it will essentially impose tariffs on goods from dublin too long but not between bubble and bust possible but those losses in the united kingdom so not it would be treated differently under the proposals put forward by the bush government only two days go i don't want what should the european union do here then i mean if if let's say the british prime minister pushes which all agreements through again and it gets voted down again how how should i how should brussels this point should they grant an extension and if so for how long brussels is essentially said it would be ok to grant an extension if there is a good reason to do so so what would be there is reasons essentially the reason that the reason is hoping for is that her deal gets very two three next week i think the chances of that are extremely low we then come to the other types of reasons that brussels may be willing to accept there is a b.
things for example whether britain wanted a longer period of reflection or deep. thought about what sort of rights it direction of wish to pursue or potentially a new general election or a second referendum. but ultimately what brussels wants is an end to this never ending cycle of no progress there is very little tolerance for tourism is approach in brussels just now and brussels is tired of the neverending last minute efforts to try to manage to solve these problems so brussels wants clarity from london it's not fixed as to how that party would exactly look catherine mowbray are you not concerned that the the so-called hard hard briggs it is here are overplaying their hand that if they don't get behind teresa mayes deal they could they could risk losing breaks it all all together that is essential what she's saying well except that what she's offering is not bricks is what she's offering is an alignment with the e.u. so it's not brics it and that's the important issue which is why they're opposing
it. i don't think the irish border is the deal is as big a deal as it's been made out because they already collect excise duty and the eighty on the irish border there is already a border there. and i do think that the majority of the goods that irony island exports not just to the u.k. but all around the world health service industries pharmaceuticals. i don't think that they're suddenly going to start doing things differently just because if there's no sort of hard border i find that this fear tactics that the remain as keeps sort of building up is crazy it's just not the way people do business these days even in. the normal are always going to go to a different county isley you know only one percent of things in containers are looked at and that island only looks at about one percent so does the u.k.
when goods come from outside the e.u. so the idea that there's going to be this sudden we must search every border every package idea of people with clipboards and hats walking up and down so it's just crazy it is and yet in the iranian story mohamad broadfoot does your inquiry at all do you know which stands the system john most wives that are raising their curriculum or back it up have you ever read it you should read the backstop it produces read it which it actually says once again back home in one thousand this is the law in stamp ross the board it is wrong across the board what you want to bring the referendum in twenty six now it is not british is one of your losing interest exam jabot ok they do not search kargar the way they used to they do it all by. a detective work as such this idea that every. you've made that point caretaker gradually but later on where do you let your
friends go on to then we have to we have to reject this dish sit that it's coming from katherine mcbride the referendum in two thousand and sixteen is it look pretty soon as you did that you really never learned to talk that's what. that is what the referendum said there are twenty eight countries of the european union britain will no longer be one of those there are multiple types of bread exactly what we more way as not here european union not switzerland is not in the european union canada is not in the european union those are all different forms of our americas now and then we are going to put forward exactly the very idea that there is that that referendum determines how brits it should look and how far away from the european union that britain should be is nort correct the referendum said britain should leave the european union legally speaking it did not determine what sort of breaks britain would get britain would leave the european union that would fulfill exactly
what was said in the referendum and therefore the issue would simply be done so therefore you cannot possibly say that the deal that is on the table is actually not a bricks it let's let's bring in let's bring in donna cohen on that particularly on the issue of the border. between between the republican and northern ireland and whether it's whether it should be a hard border or no border or something in between what is there is there some sort of a compromise where goods could be subject to checks or others not or through advances in technology that they've been talking about actually still having a border but not a physical one. yeah we've been talking about this for its creators now patents and stare at them up with a scenario that you know essentially is workable or realistic or to meet the needs of people in the united kingdom and the republic of ireland and if fortunate thing is that the border is very very complicated there's over three hundred points between the north and the south of ireland some of them are very small if you put
that into perspective on the eastern flank of the european union if you go as far north as a student as far south as bulgaria there's one hundred thirty seven crossing points between the european union and its eastern flank so this is a very very intricate border which and everybody living on both sides of the border the majorities there do not want to harp order and essentially to put that lick him on the british government for putting them in this position where they might have to face a hard order t.v. who have the ear of london do not represent and a single border constituency and i dare say that people in the european research group who are advocating that position that their obligation rarely if ever visit the border and certainly will feel the effects of a heart ordinarily will be felt by the people of arms who should be stressed never ask for the support of the first as it was in a position on the country of aren't in one hundred twenty against the wishes of the vast majority and that was being treated as if they are some device this for britain's plans of leave new york in union it's called the irish problem or the irish border problem it's not our problem it's a problem that's been foisted upon us just as breakfast was being katha mcbride
does this doesn't does either does the u.k. i know you want to respond to what donna has said there but the does the ok risk breaking up the breaking up the the union with this with northern ireland and possibly scotland as well which voted for him and that they may decide what we've had enough of this and let's have another referendum and. become independent so that we can stay part of the european union is there is there a risk there that they that that they will that they will go that they will go to break that even if it means breaking up the united kingdom. well i think that that is the whole reason that the people are concerned about the irish backstop is to prevent the the united kingdom breaking up. i don't see that the collection of import duties will be so much more onerous than the collection of the eighty and excise duty which happens right now so i don't see that this is going to suddenly return to the the borders we had in the eighty's nineteen eighties but i do
in this carnage problem is interesting i know that they voted. sixty percent to leave versus forty percent to remain but in fact they also voted fifty five percent to remain part of the united kingdom in this scottish reference independence referendum so i'm not sure that there is as strong on. a wish to get out of the u.k. big get into the e.u. as you might imagine. but what is very strong group of people who. were almost out of time now and give the last word back to john wirth refly and then and then we're going to have to write read things up so i think that the danger is very high essentially that that particularly the case for scotland in the medium term and potentially also the case for northern ireland ultimately the solution for keeping all of the u.k. together essentially and to keep the economic relations between the u.k.
and its and its neighbors good would be to have a soft bricks it and norway solution if you like basically meaning that the u.k. would stay in the european union single market and stay in the european union customs union that would mean there would be none of those pressures none of those dangers none of the difficulties the northern island border and there you would have your civil right that unfortunately however is not a solution that theresa may has been willing to go for until now we're going to have to leave it there you or three of you very spirited discussion catherine mcbride done our corn and john where thanks very much for being with us. and thank you for watching inside story as always you can see the program again any time by visiting our website and visit a dot com and for more discussion you can go to our facebook page facebook dot com forward slash a.j. inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter handle there is at a.j. inside story from the hazards to the whole team here by financial.
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