tv Inside Story 2019 Ep 90 Al Jazeera March 31, 2019 8:32pm-9:01pm +03
it's not a question of whether the law is not in step with with technology it's whether there is an effective accountability mechanism to enforce those laws you know we have courts have various different. jurisdictions of the international and domestic level where. individuals can be held accountable if we can say that it is not in accordance with international military rule the difficulty is holding accountable drone attacks as we move forward with less human control but there's still going to be. an element of holding individuals responsible and as we've had when we're far away from the stage where machines are actually making the decision to to attack but again i still think that the law is should fission to hold individuals accountable which is which is not we don't have the institutions necessary the jurisdiction to hold them accountable at all times as today assassin you've heard
there from both gentlemen we are far away from machines actually making decisions on who to attack our targets the law currently is sufficient to deal with that so why would you say you are so concerned you know the first one going to linger. five ten years is not really so high or way especially when with thinking about what it is governance regulations five years then years is a much a short term. new even if what we want to separate their knowledge at the moment is not a we're to make decision as to whether to kill or not a human being so i'm concerned because back then yes maybe just just right the amount of time just the right amount of time to make progress your nation's appropriate policy in place and there are two more points i want to make one is that the father machine can kill but can not just to kill currently is doesn't make
it less true neurotically primitive we land mines we have the same kind of baking yet redundant one minus the other side whether to kill or not they just kill because they can the way they're designed so we should also consider whether the current deployment of. autonomous weapons systems or weapon systems which are towards control this something that is. coherent to read the fundamental principles that other being internationally right i don't know if the edgy code or someone room to move from the other scene decide whether to keep it or not doesn't respond to the principles of meeting legal anybody addicks to engage in a combat operation without risking. our own position when we are remote operating these machines and in terms of their country be ready and responsibility. yes or no and so far as when we think about artificial systems especially i with
thinking about an orders which are very much the outcome of integrated elements each of which is fundamental for the system to carry out its task corp so it's got a response of it in that qantas might be possible so to regulation why no be up. a date with a qantas a certainly we need a situations as toby really was was mentioning but i wanted to stress one fundamental point which is that condor univision is internationally right that hello they are build up on human rights and just war theory reach out to sets of ethical principles and the fighting and the bodies which are meant to protect human lives around shit and ensure proportionality winning a battle within that within a war and this system might be actually. problematically appreciable to the case. rather than which some of the operations are run by machines in rehearsal think
about his numbers in five years' time. we don't do not now ok i'll give both of the men time to responsive to the points you made to add but first will cost me one of the points that mr de i had made was that there's a fear that increasingly autonomous drones missile defense systems and tanks could term brogan a cyber attack are more function i mean i'm expanding on it's a little bit how much space is there really for this and or is this the stuff of science fiction i mean the idea that we are an enemy force is going to hack into a military systems and stuff i mean is it possible yes anything could be hacked if you got the right people and you've got the access eccentric cetera is it going to happen on a weapons grade system that's being deployed by a major government around the world it's highly unlikely that they would deploy a weapon system which might end up being used against their own soldiers or
civilians on the battlefield i think that that is the world of science fiction where i think that we are probably looking at more concerning developments within the drone space and weaponized drones space or wider autonomous weapon systems is it when it falls into the wrong hands when commercially bought drones commercially or domestically built explosives are attached to that drone and then that is used in an atrocity by a terrorist organization now will regulation against that in the u.n. prevent a terrorist organization from from doing it what will know it won't and there are pointed out legal or legal positions in place and legal institutions in place that will will prevent governments nation states from from using weapons in that way and those are very sophisticated and long lasting institutions built up over a long period of time and while we are. said about the five to ten year window of government i think that we're still much further than that away from from
autonomous weapon system and i think that the position that a lot of governments take who are who are trying to prevent this being banned is that is that it's actually too early for us to be trying to carte blanche ban ai and weapons or or ban weapons which we aren't developed yet which are quite far off and which we don't know where that what shape and form that they will take should we be preventing terrorism getting their hands on this way from absolutely is it the government will be rogue or will it be used by rogue elements will be hijacked i think that that's less of a risk and and i think that conflating the ai banning in weapons or killer robots quote unquote compares to land mines i think that that's actually not not accurate because land mines directly breached two of the three major principles on the laws of war whereas it can indiscriminately target civilians and additionally not only can indiscriminately target civilians but it causes unnecessary and prolonged
suffering of competence if they lose limbs landmines what we're talking about with a lot of the solutions which artificial intelligence or killer robots might employ it's actually much more targeted and actually attention be more accurate than the human operator in this in this position the other thing is that all military forces around the world operate under command and control where the commanders order the units to to execute a mission or execute a kill and i don't think that politicians or military around the world are going to want to lose that command and control to machines who they deign with or with autonomous decision making in the same way that we deploy soldiers to warfare and battlefields yet we don't give them the decision to autonomous the kill unarmed civilians or anything like that and if they seem to want. restaurant. yes indeed the first one to i don't mention any psych eisen area this is so i thought i am now
i understand this far this for the research or i do. know cyprus and i had to live in the five ten years that iran was the one that was mentioned to me as the beginning of this interview as a possible timeline which i might be deployed at arm's length the but it feels so after me and the second point is that when it comes to the autonomy of c. weapon systems on the battlefield where r.p. eyestrain systems are in the plight there is a return of those regards system patrolling the border between the border between north and south korea which is are not the top systems and so on and so forth so it's not that we're talking about something that technology's not yet ready to the ploy that we're the last something that could be the plot in a more sophisticated way in a more pervasive way you know more aggressive way so we should keep this in months . and there are no talking about ai applications in terms of science fiction but i'm also very much concerned when we try to label as science fiction scenarios
which are realistically or counting all foreseeable because this means that we'll be going to be caught unprepared when they become real and to point to landmine that was appointed i made in response to the idea that at the moment when machines that can kill but they don't decide to kill a landmine or machines who are ok which can kill but don't the side kill so the analogy stands are on those grounds all are in the further than ones are illegal or should not be the plot but if the if will agrees with that then what's the point that even a town was a machines used as weapons systems should not be deployed and on the same point do not get states won't relinquish the control over the machine well that makes it even more clear that we shouldn't deploy these kinds of machine is that it for the reasons that we were stressing because states will be. wanted to maintain control because a controller is
a risky and dangerous so all to the same points also like to stress one thing. resume becoming irrelevant later but. when we think about it done overton's weapons systems we should be carefully shaping what we want to buy because donning the technology is really now the right to do too many of the systems will be realigned technologies which are developed also for good purposes image recognition is relevant in medical their noses as it will be in will be for example in drones. or many other kind of technology is what we need to regulate is the developed deployment and use of these machines we have to understand our societies and yet we and i don't that's not let me try and bring to the cabman and to talk about what kind of a regulatory framework you can have for this how do you decide what it is you're batting or what it is you're trying to constrict and then also that's take a look at the countries involved particularly when it's being done under the baton
of banner of the united nations where you have china russia countries that do not necessarily follow the guidelines set by the united nations so how do you how do you contain this. arms race that is currently happening within the artificial intelligence wrong. well it's very it's very difficult to to regulate an area of law on what technology may be in ten or fifteen years well you what you have to have is an effective legal framework that is enforceable for. what are the capabilities. as well as quite rightly said and it goes back to what the u.k. has also said it relation to this as the u.k. and as other countries that they're not seeking to suggest they have the technology or the seeking to develop technology at the current stage. i mean i think that the concept of having entirely ai controlled weapons systems
is of course fundamentally wrong because to have to pay a level of i was talking eleven the cap going to be you're still going to have regardless of how quickly the technology involved changed you're still going to have a state or entity that is responsible for using system and if the system. commit what is considered to be a crime then of course there is going to be a level of accountability so i think what we need to be clear on is that the law can only regulate what is what is possible what is possible that your point as to as to the u.n. system and whether states are going to follow that well you quite rightly say that you got to look at the membership of the un human rights council to start with to show that. international credibility and human rights protection is not really at the forefront of the agenda you also got to take into account that there is
a un special rapporteur that that has dealt with and continues to do with the question of drone attacks and that that that is not an enforcement mechanism so i think that whatever whatever principles whatever regulations the united nations girls are how are they actually going to be enforced and how. is there going to be accountability for state. coroner rules that tribute or international crimes and i was going to said we took red states we're not talking about terrorist groups and those this that. this technology and use it to be very difficult to regulate but thank you very much to all our speakers on today's panel the panel we have run out of time but this has been a very interesting conversation and obviously one that needs to continue but i'd like to thank all my guests will cross wade rosaria today oh and toby cadman and
thank you too for watching you can see this program again any time by visiting our website you'll find that odd zero dot com and for further discussion why don't you go to our facebook page you'll find that at facebook dot com forward slash a.j. inside story and of course you can always join the conversation on twitter i handle it at a.j. inside story and for me the vehicle pollard and the team is bye for now has been good to have you here. with.
a city defined by military occupation there's never been an arab state here at the capital of jerusalem everyone is welcome but this depôt structure that meant there is because on a project that's what we defuse it was one of the founders of the settlement we put this and the story of jerusalem through the eyes of its own people segregation occupation discrimination injustice this is apartheid in the twenty first century jerusalem a rock and a hard place on al-jazeera and monday put it well on. us and british companies have announced the biggest discovery of natural gas in west africa but what to do with these untapped natural resources is already a source of heated debate nothing much has changed they still spend most of their days looking forward to for dry riverbed like this one five years on the syrians still feel battered or even those who managed to escape their countries haven't truly been able to escape the war. the brazilian economy is
booming but deep divisions still exist between the haves and the have nots in a country where smartphones have become a part of everyday life technology help bridge the gap. this series that challenges developers to design acts for a better world travels to real dish i made and meets the young people tasked with making a different life than covello fastened on al-jazeera. and i'm fully back to bill with a look at our main stories here on al-jazeera saudi arabia's king solomon has rejected the u.s. it's decision to recognize israeli sovereignty over the occupied golan heights came king solomon gave the opening speech at the thirty arab league summit which is underway right now into nation's capital tunis these are live pictures he also
stressed the importance of finding a political solution to the conflict in yemen. here. in the issue we emphasize our support for the u.n. efforts for reaching a political solution in accordance with the three references. we call upon the international community to bind who theme militias backed by iran to seize their hostile practices which lead to the suffering of the of the yemeni people and threaten the security and stability of the region and other news the two main border crossings into gaza are open again for the first time in six days israel lifted restrictions on sunday morning after a weekend of mass protests along the fence dividing gaza and israel for palestinian protesters were killed and two hundred forty others injured during the demonstrations and has the latest from gaza. the fact that the areas crossings have
been reopened clearly an indication that those egyptian led mediation efforts between hamas other palestinian factions and israel are on a positive track there is a mood of cautious optimism in gaza just days ago people were concerned that gaza might be on the verge of an all out war once more with israel now things have really calmed down so much so that many in gaza believe there will be an announcement in the in the coming hours that a final deal has been reached many people expect that later in the day fishermen in gaza will once again be able to go back into the sea and resume fishing that they will be able to the coast of gaza and resume fishing among other things the situation here far less tense as i mentioned than it was just days ago and one of the reasons for that is because of what happened on saturday that was the first
anniversary of the great march of return protests on saturday there were indeed flare ups but the situation remained far less chaotic than people had feared it might become so much so that in fact there was a remarkable statement issued by the spokesman for israel's army in which he actually praised how much for the restraint that was shown on saturday how much jihad and other groups actually had volunteers out at those protests to try to defuse a situation and to try to ensure that demonstrators did not approach the fence with israel take a president who on has offered his condolences after two people were killed at a polling station in monte a province to access voting in no one elections which have been seen as a major test of president. the act party has dominated turkish politics for nearly two decades but a we can see in hind facia you could see a key. manoel seats of voting is also under way in ukraine in the first round of
the presidential election thirty nine candidates are in the running including the incumbent petro poroshenko and former prime minister yulia timoshenko but it's comedian mere man ski who's leading in opinion polls. corruption candidates designer has won slovakia's presidential election making her the country's first female leader a liberal lawyer who has no previous political experience beat the governing party candidates in a runoff vote. is pro europe and told supporters she saw her victory as a signal for change shall be sworn in in june to the largely ceremonial position one of algeria is richest man and a close backer of president. has been arrested at the tunisian border. resigned as head of the algerian business leaders for a month thursday had been awarded launched public contracts by the government and
helped fund defeat the election campaigns of those are the headlines on al-jazeera their investigations does next. the. full three years old is here is been investigating the pro-gun lobby just. filming with hidden cameras inside america's national rifle association. the only thing that stopped a bad guy with a gun is a good guy. good entrenching a political party from a stranger as they seek millions of dollars from the u.s. can lobby. and million dollars a week when he should wash say to the sheriff. in secretly recorded
meetings the one nation political party promises to reverse a stranger's junk control has. gone charge that people are going to be lookers further go struck them to go up. it's fun or fun you know it. must be stopped. and. other said monday the thing. i find it beneficial you are on to take steps in the right directions because the biggest crime that we don't get ourselves on look at us for probably get a bigger picture for when we work with. one nation learns from the us gun lobby how to sell a message to johns to. top that off that's what the n.r.a.
very well. and how to smear supporters of gun control by choosing them of exploiting a message to. stall as children. of joe this is. still below jack nice with me. just mike my die yet you. gets it. wrong the bud. this costs kept right on a very a. on a straight news queensland coast synod to hold in hansen is addressing supporters of who conservative political party one nation. and i'll take
action as that pops up i was there on and i must say i'm good. with the federal election looming center that hansen is funding her message to destroy your is in trouble. what i wanted was to hockey is that honest chair os. i really am and this country. pension is a senator leading a populist right wing party that bears the name. for years she's pushed a hard line and immigration policy let me tell us that man still you know who eats all the n.g.'s so you don't. want to be what we in this county. one nation's chief of staff james ashby is one of senator ensign's top in forces. he's an
architect of her battle plan for the coming polls. based on. i just try to help him home safe for us so we'll just stay home and. they're. rocking our programming now to take you live to tunis and the arab league summit where the king of jordan king abdullah is speaking. for the efforts being exerted for the sake of the joint. and to follow up the recommendations of the last. your career and. guests with me today. and we are facing a lot on difficulties in our countries and our paper this necessitates all of us
to be on to this response ability to our dogged decisions others a new shows that will be good for their benefit and at the end it was. good for our future for our youth that. compromised the majority in our society. and we more first. right up tomorrow the challenge is the national challenge is the internal challenge of having that kept our stock you fired away from the major problem about this now is the time to move towards facing the challenges and to move towards the application of the real joy and. the time now to be able to direct ourselves direct our society has towards welfare
the challenges that might be different but our fate our future is the same is one way and we have to agree that our priorities as one nation when it should be clear and should be known is that the palestinian issue is. will be as it was the first priority yes. the arab mine and it is the main thing that has to be dealt with a list. as arabs nations the palestinian issue must be the central issue the number one issue no security no stability and no welfare in the region without a last just and comprehensive solution to the policy the measures that.
gives the palestinians their hope to have their own states on the nineteen sixty seven churches with reza lim as the capital based on the two state solution and the arab peace initiative and the lows the nuisance of the international legitimacy. lives when it comes to drizzling and when it comes to the christian and muslim shrines there in journalism and the violations against our muslim and christian friends in jerusalem we need to make sure that based on hashem in jordan responsibility i'd like to say and confirm that jordan will continue its historical role in protecting and defending.