tv The Stream 2019 Ep 58 Al Jazeera April 11, 2019 5:33pm-6:01pm +03
people get it it's still very early. in this situation which is unfolding but it's still really a sense of achievement of pride did you think you would come. in just a few weeks ago people were still afraid to come out with cheap. national security . on the street. getting hurt and killed. just a few weeks ago people were afraid of this and it's just a completely different picture why won't change change for people to lose that sense of fear. i think what happened to be on the. people gradually started to come out first. professional.
but slowly started to catch on. the more people that come out. other people to come out that's how it happened it happened because. yet the number of the great on the street. today. gradual. this point to people who have faith in the army. the army will do the right thing yes. not necessarily the. only. people who actually. headquarters the young soldiers who will be. the people. in those people. believe that. they will protect the people they are the people. we've seen scenarios in other countries not too long ago in egypt where the army cracked down on
peaceful protesters and according to international human rights groups a large very large numbers of people were killed in a brutal crackdown what gives you face that sort of scenario will not emerge here and call to. be on to be like i said you know if people. are very committed to that. we will be. very honest with. you. i mean there is a sense that. no matter what happened. in the future today or tomorrow. we have a chance. because we do have. just give us an idea of of what this crowd is like of people going out prepared
with preparations with supplies to stay camped out outside the army headquarters indefinitely always this sort of heinous have been. yes people have been camping out for saturday. donations from people with bread and water but to the point where you will find all sorts of. types of food inside and. even. people have really really settled in and they're not about to move. there's actually a small medical conference i. think that donated. from pharmacies and other people small groups collect money together. anything that can.
tell us a little bit about your expectation full becoming announcement from the military what do you want the military to say. i don't know what's going to come out of the pieces for the people is that the people on the street. that's the only thing i know for sure is. we want the military to say. to the professionals. we trust them one hundred percent. we want to create a civil government and that's what. we've got directions all right thank you very much for your perspective on what's been going on the street. from sharm spanked. he's covered extensively over the years joins us here in the
studio. stage here. it is basically who is now in charge of the country and what are the arrangements which are made so far between the coup leader and the president. bashir and his entourage and the things they are trying to finalize the arrangements before the military would come up with this official statement that would give us more details about what is happening now in sudan we know that the army officers went into the presidential palace and they told omar bashir that this is over and that you are no longer president of sudan but what is happening right after that that's that's that's that's the most important thing to monitor and this explains the city and the celebrations that we're seeing on the streets of sudan because well people are happy that bashir is no longer in power but they would like to get
some assurances that whoever is taken over is committed to start a transition to democracy in sudan it's ultimately about the need to build a vibrant democracy in the country and turn the chapter of decades of conflicts wars and military because when you look at the history of the country from the first general the first president of the independent sudan all the way to our model bashir it was always it was always the army that has shaped the political landscape in the country. we were talking about this earlier if we could look at this aspect though again of the delay of what's going on you said you know the guys inside that bad army camp now are trying to figure out what to do next. and they're obviously there isn't a lot of agreement assumably since it's going on for this long do we have any idea
to what extent is the division is. can we talk about infighting at this point i mean varies over there is definitely yes there's a new fighting there's a huge political divide consists of the final days of the protest movement we've seen first of all a divide between two key security establishment the army and the intelligence and we've seen junior army officers taking to the streets and put providing protection to the to the civilian protesters too there is a divide within the political elite it could be what we seeing now on the streets of sudan could be a sign that the the junior officers or whoever now is taking over in sudan is trying to do the following take control of the headquarters of the national congress party take control of the radio television military bases around the capital but also the top military command scattered across sudan they would like to
ensure everyone is on board and everyone is supporting. their push and they would like to minimize any backlash or any preemptive attack by any diehard supporter of particular from the military establishment before they can come out and make the announcement and i think this explains why we've been waiting really for quite some time to get this announcement from the military establishment is it surprising that the army obviously in the army obviously made this plan to make this move. and yet they apparently didn't have a clear idea agreement of vision on what happens next you know the words to simply we understand step down we understand the army has taken over a lot of key institutions and positions but when to be in a bit of a state of limbo for hours now is that a bit surprising. it's it is it is it is part of this complex political
reality and one of the until a few days ago was insisting that he's sudan's legitimate president that he can only be removed in in a presidential election and it's the elections that should decide the future of the country and i wouldn't be surprised if the it was the reason why he stepped aside or forced to step aside because the army told him it's over and there's absolutely no way we can further contain the anger of the people number two if they want to reach a consensus though on what happens next the hour after the minute after bashir steps down before they make him make that move or he before he does that move exactly because there are still forces loyal to him just within the military establishment we spoke of the security apparatus we spoke about the divide between the national intelligence security agency and the military establishment within the militant military establishment itself we've seen two things we've seen statements coming from the hamad bin. with the minister of defense saying staunchly that he sides
with ahmed bashir the junior commanders were all this risk for tatting the protesters then you have the issue of the militias loyal to a man of bashir groomed by a model bashir protected by obama bashir for almost thirty years and these people will definitely be very concerned about the aftermath of what happened and this i think explains why the army is now deploying troops on the streets. shutting down the airport ensuring that no one fled the country and flees the country and to and they would like also to get reassurances that everything is under control before they make their announcement but it could be also said to be that they are trying to reach out to the protesters and to the opposition and tell them this is an extraordinary moment in modern history of sudan please give us your support we are determined to stay here just for a transition to democracy. and then would hand over power to civilian authority
will the opposition and the protesters go for that that's also one of the key questions about the situation that is. where some sort of dialogue between these different factions and which have different. tendencies before they make all of bashir down or before he steps down it's not entirely clear how he will do we'll have to talk to. maddy and the party and they will have to talk to the protesters there how how involved is saw the calm ahead in the party at this point in the process that we're seeing on ravel it doesn't feel does it like the traditional political parties and this is really driving the process and this is why they are blamed by the protesters telling them you are part of the establishment you are part of the problem is that we are you are one of the reasons why we're having these problems in sudan and with the protesters with the young voiceless people of sudan are the ones who are shaping policies but you know
ultimately still such a commanding her supporters the committees party the other political parties of the so that all the weak and fragmented over the last few years will have will have a say in shaping the transitional period in sudan and it could be why the those in charge now in sudan are trying to reach out to everyone before making this announcement because the problem why this is they are treading a very careful path here is because if you come out and give the people the impression this is just a coup within a coup people are going to accept nobody is just further fuel the unrest sudanese professional association professionals association they've already said they won't accept a military government they don't want even a military transitional government the military knows this at this point right there oh that's very clear from the words there as they sit inside that camp keeping the nation waiting. everybody is waiting to see this announcement they know
. that a lot of those protesters if not all of them don't want to see three transition how is that going to impact the military moving here we will have they will have to make a decision very soon because you cannot afford what is that decision is it very include the ambiguity crash crush the protests and they have a well most public and tell people what is happening because if you've been to this sense of ambiguity for twenty four hours the potential for any loyalists or a lot of pressure to stage a comeback is is there because it's ambiguous no one knows whether the ground is still to give favor of his opponents you have to be decisive and you have to act and i think they are just trying to get reassurances from different factions within the society that they are on board with them and they will they will come out but then again we have to see and wait and see for who is behind this president has moved. do we have a sense of just how much support does normal bashir have at this point the
reports that we understand is that he's stepped down from power we know that he has or has had the support of key figures like. a doll the minister of defense and first vice president beyond that how much of the army is sympathetic to him how much of the militias are loyal to him at this point how much of really the state bureaucracy the intelligence services are going to she has always been known for turning his back to his loyalists as an auto lobby he was one of the key players in the one nine hundred eighty nine crew and the national salvation. national salvation and then he was imprisoned by our model bashir. the powerful vice president close a light on one of bashir who was sacked by on one of the shia he has stacked many many many lawyers however in the early two thousand when the economy was booming
and where the country was pumping more oil into the international markets getting more cash revenues what he did it was he was ensuring to buy and groom loyalties within the military establishment and within the top tribal and military commanders in the regions in places for example like like like like like darfur areas because he needed that particular support but we've seen at the same time an unprecedented erosion in the political support for model bashir ahmad bashir in the last few weeks was more isolated more disconnected from reality than ever now even if you call back of those tribesman how israel is more and more isolated and disconnected from reality because it was a sign the curse because when people were telling him form a national unity government a government he went for a state of emergency herself of the government sacked people. described as loyal to him and brought people who are staunchly loyal to him we had attempted
brutal crackdown on the protesters and things seem like they were going very sour exactly and then when the people were building more momentum he was saying no i'm not going to step aside we are going to be democracy and i have to be through ballots and people told him you've lost legitimacy but instead insisted on stick into power and i think this explains why whoever is taking charge now of the situation in sudan realizes that if you keep this some balance of normality with a model bashir it could just lead to civil war so then ultimately is a country that has always been beset by civil wars in the sixty's in the eighty's by war in darfur by conflicts by a blood general divines by poverty by instability by if nick conflicts and it's about time it's about time for the people of the of sudan. to go for
a new path this explains sami when you talk to the young protesters you've been talking to over the last few hours. their passion about a new future their determination to continue the fight until there is a genuine vibrant democracy this explains that people are really tired of those decades of conflicts and wars in the country and they are now saying please give us a break give us a new political leadership to take over and to look after our own demands which are purely political political reforms and economic. or. thank you so much for sharing your vast experience of cover of sudan with us i'm sure we're going to have you back home but let's just recap for our viewers what has been going on in sudan well it's understood that president obama bashir has been relieved of his duties or waiting for an official statement from the army but in the meantime troops have been deployed around the defense ministry on key roads
bridges key institutions in the capital khartoum the head of the ruling party and the former vice president have been detained tens of thousands of flights on the streets of the capital earlier the military said it had an announcement to make well this is the image of the army logo on sudanese state television which came off in the last few hours let's go over to morgan who joins us now from the capital khartoum any new indication if not words from the military on what exactly is going on here or. one of them it looks like it's going to be a very long consultation people are still in talks as the army commanders security commanders and police force top officials are still in a meeting and from what we've heard from sources the sydney's professional association who have been leading the protests who have been leading the calls for the sit ins and the protests that have been happening over the past four months are saying that they do not want a military representative or a military figure leading the transitional government so it seems like right now
the army is trying to make sure that whoever comes out as the head of the transitional government that will be formed if that is then ultimately going to make should be basically somebody who everybody agrees on and especially those who have been staging the third since not just some hard time but know various other states as well we also know that one of the main presence corporate prison in behavior of the north has been broken into and that all the political detainees have been released by protesters and by the military now that means that people are very confident that the ruling party has effectively last hour and that the feel very. but enough to make sure that these political prisoners are released because there will be no. basically so it seems like people have already began celebrating and they feel like the government is already gone the syrian government is over and that this is a new era that is beginning we're also tell us a little bit about the the protests and the gathering around the army headquarters what sort of profile is emerging there are hundreds and hundreds of people family
since five o'clock in the morning when the army walked into the radio station and the national television to announce that they will be making an announcement shortly people have been flowing into certain routes because most of the main streets have been blocked by the military especially those streets that are leading to the army h.q. there's certain routes that protesters have been using over the past few days now seen people hundreds and hundreds of them walking towards the issue again saying that they are going to continue to sit and they've already begun celebrations where they are saying is that the army has staged a coup and army is in control right now they've been congratulating the army they've been singing carrying around the sudanese flag basically in a celebratory mood there they're saying that bashir is term is over now again we're still waiting for a statement from the military we're still trying to know who is in command now that it seems bashir is gone but so far no statement has been made into expected to take another few hours before one is actually made. when we last spoke we spoke
a little bit about the dynamic between the army and the protestors has anything changed in that regard are we still seeing the army not interfering with protesters no clashes no friction of any sort. since the protests began and the army has made it very clear that they are going to try to preserve the lives of the sudanese that isn't that hasn't changed especially over the past five days when thousands and thousands staged a sit in in front of the army headquarters saying that the army should take a position over the past few days the last three days specifically we've seen the army coming out with statements saying that they will not allow this country to slide into chaos they will not allow the country to be divided but they will also make sure that the protesters are not harmed we've seen on monday and tuesday early hours of monday and tuesday morning the soldiers opening their doors opening the doors of their headquarters to allow protesters in when security forces fired at the people who are in the city and the military opened their doors and then fired back at the security that seems to indicate some kind of pregnant taishan between
the national security and the military officials so the army has been very determined have been saying that they will protect protesters this morning that hasn't changed we've seen armies are around the protesters they seem to be celebrating with a protest as well although we are yet to hear a statement if they do know that this is the end now they're in control they're they're sure they're not showing it but they have been siding with the protesters protecting them there were a few gunshots heard earlier but some people are saying that the soldiers were celebrating with them while others are saying that they are afraid they're being targeted by snipers who want to be who do not want the sit in to to continue and trying to scare of the protesters but at the moment it seems very much that the army is still keeping its word when it said that it is going to try to preserve the lives of those who are in the city and who are continuing to march into the army h.q. by the thousands at the moment toroid morgan. the situation as it appears in khartoum very fluid joining us on the phone from khartoum is never now a teacher who's joined other protesters in the streets of khartoum now making their
way to army headquarters tell me a little bit not if you can hear him about what you're seeing going on around you right now. are there on the broker from ever. where coming to the military headquarters from everywhere marching riding cars. everywhere from custom cities the different areas under mounds the harry hurt so much with this region it's massive people actively breaking it is tremendous tremendous that this feeling i can't even describe it was what are you coming out on to the street now to to celebrate your old to the grave all to integrate that the future of this process hello. yes go ahead nada yes. people are celebrating the end of this government was last there two years the
people standing at the head military headquarters for over a week since that almost a week since last saturday and six of april twenty fourth seven of the three is one of the brave soldiers. by the people and as the and the people who was succeeded. how long are you prepared to stay in the streets as long as it takes as long as it takes no way forward not to what are you waiting for next that waiting for that piece of the armored bus here that. beats all so that our command and our that our commands are being fulfilling the entire nothing great nothing less no one would leave unless i was
a man. what sort of transitional situation do you think will be acceptable to people like you. i think that the people who need. government for are you and after that a fair elections will come and the people will soon cannot ever governmental community cannot transitional period have any involvement from the army tell me i couldn't hear you well would it be acceptable if that transitional period is led by the army. we are waiting waiting for that i mean right now waiting we are looking forward and we don't know until we have but what will you want the army to say i will tell you you say you are waiting for the army to make an announcement what sort of announcement do you want to hear from them that that
the government that has government that's not for over thirty years is done with all its bars with all their allies are gone and we are willing to negotiate with the people but as a people it was very good man. for the crowds tell us a little bit about the mood amongst them how do they see this moment in their lives and in the country's history i'm sorry i couldn't continue and tell you. how do people see this moment in the lives. could great delight great feeling the people after they were whipped with people with patience and face and as they ran out of the basin and now at least i believe we see that blend of a gully and a glass of hope that sudan will be great again as it was that this was.
thank you very much for talking to us. we've got in our studios now here in the home of one bashar al jazeera senior political analyst good to have you with us marwan bring it all together for us we've seen other countries go through transition what sort of lessons can we learn from that when where and lies in this you know this is very important not because they're all the same but the comparison needs to be made in order for us to learn from other experiences just as probably the sudanese are learning from other people's experiences and having said that sami allow me just to take one moment to reflect on the idea that we are a very complex network al-jazeera and we are talking to a variety of people from around the world about a variety of complex issues happening in the middle east and north africa and the arab.