tv Inside Story 2019 Ep 155 Al Jazeera June 4, 2019 8:32pm-9:01pm +03
general election within 9 months protest leaders have rejected that and say they will continue their civil disobedience movement until the entire military leadership is overthrown. commemoration ceremonies have been held in several cities on the 30th anniversary of the chinaman square massacre in china in hong kong almost 200000 people held a candlelight vigil pro-democracy leaders addressed crowds wearing t. shirts with the message the people will not forget that the scene of the estimated 1000 killings in beijing was surrounded by tight security. the attack in southern yemen has killed a child and wounded 6 others the rebels launched rocket attacks on the areas around tied there's been fighting between yemeni government forces on the whole of these east of the city those are the headlines inside stories coming up next on our jazeera.
it's 30 years since chinese tanks and troops crushed pro-democracy protests plus the legacy of the tiananmen square massacre and how have the killings in beijing shaped modern china this is inside story. hello and welcome to the program i'm here dean 30 years ago tens of thousands of chinese people protested in beijing for democracy and freedom the government answered with tanks and bullets that c.n.n. is square massacre is
a highly sensitive issue in china security in beijing is tights on the anniversary and any public discussion will land you in jail but sympathizers have been holding vigils in hong kong and macau to semi autonomous chinese territories where freedom of expression is allowed small services are also held in taiwan and washington d.c. . well the 1989 protest response expires eth the former communist party leader who we are back on who had been pushing for a more open political system and the conna me in april that sheer thousands of students gathered channel and square to mourn his passing that demonstration grew into a nationwide poll for greater political freedom a month later with more than a 1000000 people taking parts chinese the chinese premier declared martial law after trying unsuccessfully to end the protests on june 4th the chinese army tanks
rolled in and soldiers opened fire on protesters to clear the square the government has never said how many were killed others estimate the total at around 1000. well al jazeera say it in prime reported on the massacre at the time here's his firsthand account while tiananmen square was closed on tuesday just as it was 30 years ago a heavy police presence around the ceremonial heart of beijing for this most sensitive of anniversaries i recall on the afternoon of june the 4th 1989 making my way up chang an avenue with several colleagues using the trees as cover and across the avenue of a turn or piece or chang an avenue there was a line of soldiers behind a protective barricade and they were firing warning shots of people who incredibly were defying orders to get off the streets around us there was a tangle of charred vehicles buses army vehicles i remember very clearly seeing 2
bodies that had been flattened by tanks the tread marks were still visible there was an icky and for a time we really didn't know who is in control as i reported at the time meanwhile the men who control the army and perhaps now the government have issued another all minutes warning stay off the streets or face the consequences no one knows of course how many people were killed in the square but many other people were killed in other parts of the city and during a round up that followed thousands of people were detained now china's communist party 30 years on still refuses to express remorse for what happened in the reason for that is to do so would be to raise questions over the legitimacy of china's communist party so instead the government remains unrepentant saying if the army hadn't taken the action that it did then china rist slipping into civil war and
china never would have joined the world trade organization to stage the olympics or become the world's 2nd largest economy and it continues to insist that the people of china are with that verdict adrian brown the inside story in beijing. well let's bring in our panel in hong kong we're joined by courtier more legislator and pro-democracy activists who attended the vigil in washington d.c. in the ritz are kellen american attorney weaker heritage and are not seeing him in the u.k. andries fulda author of the struggle for democracy in mainland china taiwan and hong kong welcome to you all if i could start with you cause we are more in hong kong howie you were in china straight after the events the crackdown by the armed forces you have witnessed the transformation in the last 30 years how
would you say china has changed it was time well china has changed in some ways because they claim they were. staging economic liberalizing and then on the little front it's become more conservative it's obvious they are catering it's. only chinese people and that is spreading the. ideological good. as well. and if we could cross to washington d c. how would you say china has a ti-anna man has changed china itself to you certainly we talk about lessons being learns after 989 the world has said never again and yet we do seem to see this repression of people happening right now.
i grew up during that period 1000 eighty's and early ninety's i had that firsthand experience enjoying some free. life. in during that period and i was also us college student around that period when the students took to the streets to demand a mic the mock receive for china that over the years in the last 30 years the same government same party. take the country back to the warsaw version of itself as we speak the chinese communist party under the leadership of xi jinping is committing crimes against humanity by locking up more than 2000000 weaker and other turkey minorities in a modern day concentration camp with an intent to stamp out the weakest ethnic national identity and suffocate and reprogram centuries old
tradition religious practices and way of life and what is what is the world need to be reminded of an important fact after the tiananmen square 30 years ago their western leaders decided to engage with china that turned out to be an appeasement if the world has taken a different approach we may have had a different type of china today and with a less problem and let me underscore this reality that china chinese authorities massacred thousands of students demanding democracy 30 years ago and today not only they oppressing the of their own citizens by using technology but they are exporting these surveillance technologies around the world and trying to create a new a digital of that there it is i'm ok well come on so the way to international percent perspective in a 2nd but if i could turn to you and food at certain the china. it was
a very different place in 1989 so the china we see now was very much an economic powerhouse and global player in 2019. how you would use a. vent since young women have made the country the country china is today. well i think the activists certainly learned a couple of lessons from the crackdown for example they realize that without a strategy without a functioning organization it would be very hard to actually engage with the party and so in 1988 there was an attempt to register an opposition party to china democracy party now that was suppressed as well but for example in 2008 some of the former activist of 1989 decided to promulgate the charter or 8
which we it was a pivotal moment in the democracy movement because it's for the 1st time kind of stated the objective to overcome one party rule and introduce the rule of law rights protection federalism and constitutional democracy and i think when we talk about 989 we do need to look at these milestones in china's democracy movement which has really developed by leaps and bounds it hasn't changed the political system evidently however we should not hold that against you know the political activists who really have exercised leadership and are continuing to exercise leadership to the present day but with the greatest of respect and various foods if we look at charts of recent years that there hasn't changed and offend we have now as the leader of the communist party the leader of china. who is he's
managed to dispense with term limits amassed comparable amounts of parity chairman mao himself. you're absolutely right i mean when i describe the political system right now i would say that she didn't pings ideology world view and leadership style can be described as follows he is basically a stalinist who's presiding over. leninist party state using maoist tactics and this trinity of stalin is leninism and maoism of course is not very becoming for china it is a real threat to the social and political development of china but i think what a person like she's in pain is all over looking in a way is that chinese society has actually. already developed further to think that somehow a trance aside it can be just changed at will socially engineered and for example
we just heard the treatment of the weaker since injun were sent to concentration camps and were basically being assimilated and they have to become hunter and yes that is of course a very very worrisome development and something that. we should resist in the 21st century we cannot simply accept that one part of china of course which does have a democracy movement is of course concordia more you are part of that pro-democracy movement how do you see the effects of. events in tiananmen shaping the way the communist party and the leadership in china how do you see that impacting efforts to maintain democracy in hong kong. you know i hope nobody would want us to him. with.
the i perfectly agree with all the points made. certain it takes. time and that's. in the much farther. back in 1990 it's a water. main. in china as a british colony and they came it came with all kinds of promises and at the time being this is an extradition arrangement you must have diverted and that's why they say extradition of the rings humans should exclude mainland china because hong kong off of china's judiciary we just have no trust no confidence in china's legal system and so that was a 5 year war against. the chinese law practice being
tracked is. today they suddenly say we need to look at this loophole and instead of a fog of war they call it a loophole we must block it and at the end of the day anyone in hong kong not just hong kong is anyone living in hong kong or they're just passing through you could be you could face extradition to china whatever happens without one country 2 systems right we're supposed to be different from the mainland the fact is hong kong the stick only piece of chinese land where you unfair and still be remembered publicly and openly why is there no such thing in trying to because aspirants not allowed every year on june 4th 10 am in the square with me to be cleared out and there is such a thing as 10 nominees mothers they are the mothers of the government dead 30 years
ago and hong kong is a relatively free of the hong kong government is say oh you're some free you can say anything you want the such a freedom of expression in hong kong what are you complaining about but we are wrong to bring our we're really rotten behind the facade that's exactly what we're trying to protect. ourselves not losing all the freedoms which we have been enjoying for the last 30 years no they are the making sure that they will take it away they say don't worry we will take care of you and indeed they will and if i could just ask you andreas just how important this a book receipts of the average person in china. ok sure look i had the good fortune to live and work in mainland china for 7 years and i've had a lot of conversation with reform minded congress socially engaged academics and
civil society practitioners i'm quite familiar with their thinking i would say among the politically conscious elites in the country there is a clamoring for more freedom it doesn't necessarily express itself in you know capital d. democracy but everyone is kind of discharge shouting slogans but clearly they want a more group around polity they want and very traditionally they want to free a media they want freedom of speech and this urge is overwhelming look last year at the european conference i just met her high ranking official and 2 or 3 minutes into my conversation with this person a consummate and that in chinese he was bitterly complaining about xi jinping about the chinese currency party and this you know north korea in turn and in and so we should not assume that everyone's happy with even within the party let alone outside the party and certainly nuri. the kind of comments that
this individual speaking to. us for. a week or make those comments is very likely they would end up in prison and their family members would be as well you mentioned you mentioned earlier how this is an issue which is of critical importance but certainly the international community have been somewhat silent on this why do you think there has not been more vocal opposition to. the treatment of the weaker people in western china there posit there are several possible reasons one of which i think is the most important one is that the. china's government has been very effective in its influence campaign through corruption and corrupt. methods. in the last $2.00 and $3.00
decades so countries that have economic relationship with china still tiptoeing around the issue of human rights and democracy and the rule of law in china. even some of them have been able to come out and made a mild statements most countries particularly in europe and countries have not spoken out in the face of this atrocities taking place on our watch we were told never again but never again is happening again in china today those $2000000.00 plus people have been going through horror of horrific time inside of those camps but we let's forget let's focus on the individuals who are out who are outside of the camps have been monitored every moment that they make their social connections family connections the chinese government have been really comfortably making the official statements such as breaking their roots lineage in origin and no one is raising a finger so this is this is untenable the these sit on the idle though isn't understandable
because are there any countries instead actually who are strong and off economically or politically to stand up to china the united states government has taken a leadership in this effort as we speak there are 2 pending legislations being considered in the in the u.s. congress and administration is considering sanctions against human rights abuses in china there's also call for international olympic committee to pressure that they will shut that china shut down these cabs if the chinese government still wants to host the 2022 winter olympics there are several leverage is available for the western countries. sanctioning technology companies because the chinese government have not really felt any any pain and you cause for engaging
in a modern day at nick glimpsing so you know the world need to take individual or collective action to rectify a situation you know this is not going to end well either way we're setting up a time bomb if the chinese government succeeds what we're looking at is a group of prague ethnic minority in china will disappear under this reprogramming effort if the chinese government fails they may need to commit some crimes because they're not going to release those millions of people to the street so the world needs to take an action collectively or individually call on the western democracies to use their influence and leverage yes we do have a leverage in our relationship with china that need to be used ok it could see a whole when you could see a more i beg your pardon where you hear the reality in the scenes yang and you've described some of the efforts that have been dying on pro-democracy efforts in hong
kong are you fearful that. some weights on the roads hong kong could be in line for a similar treatment. we're absolutely fearful in hong kong i mean i personally made that statement about 5 years ago so i will become the 2nd shing jang for that matter the 2nd. because after our umbrella movement which. worked very hard to fight for true democracy in hong kong we didn't face it steve and beijing cheating thing obviously is quite fed up with thinking i'm grateful that we behave like a teenager and we don't know how to be a great vote to the mother country and so on and so forth and so are the chinese so she thinking at the moment the practicing the very good of conducting cage politics what we call do politics if you have economic stability you have all the luxuries
in life or the chinese tycoons you can get around the world then you should stop thinking about political liberalization never mind that because as long as you're living in a behavior being fair that you come under comfortable groove then you should be happy with life what comes back to that loving patriotism is the last refuge of the scum they use patriotism to a kind of problem of chinese nationalism to be proud of china because the world's number one economic powerhouse at the moment and if people laugh now ideology they're all just doing china bashing never mind them and that's what china is about and they tried to turn home home into that as well ok we're fast running archer of china i want to put one final question to all of your peers brief as you can if you
words are a lot of the coverage. focusing on what chinese people themselves think of tiananmen and many are questioning why is this relevant we have still szell stability social stability trumps everything else why should people care about what happens in tiananmen square 30 years ago be as brief as you can if you would if i could start with andrus for sure i mean everyone would agree that in a way social stability is desirable but very often it is actually mistaken with you know the silence of the graveyard. a graveyard is rather silent but it's also all there is no life and we have to acknowledge that china is home to 1300000000 people they have every right to live in dignity and free from fear so actually the struggle of the chinese citizens and the chinese people is also our struggle ok
thank you narrator cow why should we care about what happened 30 years ago. we have to care about. the 1st of the most important thing is china's government has displayed a sense of insecurity and they've been they were on the set on its citizens in the name of combating extremism which having social stability that is a bogus claim at best it's this it shows chinese government's sense of insecurity and to weaker people's lives and their homeland have built the use as a laboratory for surveillance state if you're not careful this will be affecting the lives of the people around the world as we speak as reported busy in the new york times there about 18 countries already adopted chinese surveillance technology to monitor and repress their own citizens this is coming to us we have to wake up this is this is not about an issue
a domestic issue constraint in china this is going to back affect the lives of the people of hong kong taiwan tibet and all around the world ok and korean war the final 10 seconds to you. went 2019 the deal for the men what's that all to fight for please don't take it thank you ok thank you very much indeed and with facts we have run out of time but like to thank all my guests claudia moe mary took out and andrea is a fool and thank you to you for watching you can see the program anytime again by visiting our website al-jazeera dot com and take parts in the discussion just head to our facebook page for science inside story or join the conversation on twitter handle is at the inside story or tweet me directly at our money team write for
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