tv The Stream 2019 Ep 156 Al Jazeera October 1, 2019 5:32pm-6:00pm +03
it's a help investigate the miller probe trump is already facing an impeachment inquiry into what was said in a phone call to ukraine's president police and finance are questioning the suspects about a source attack it's a vocational college at least one person was killed and 10 injured in the eastern town of copiapo media say a college student attacked his teacher with the sword and turned the weapon on others from the prime minister's describing violence as shocking and completely unacceptable britain's prime minister says he'll presents the european union with new ideas to solve and breaks it by thursday boris johnson says his ideas includes a solution to avoiding a hard border with our lands and that's you up to date stay stay with us here on al-jazeera the news continues after this street.
show. lies in justice special coverage on al-jazeera. welcome to the stream of family ok a gander mother has launched a landmark legal effort the reuniting with her child was taken through a forward and adoption but her case isn't linked today we ask has international adoption tricky than some parents read children single thoughts through twitter i need change. in most cases adoption gives the child opportunity and stability but some biological parents in uganda have lost their children without their consent amid fraud and excellent exploitation last week a mother filed
a ugandan coopetition to overturn what she says is the illegal adoption of a son a lasso a living or patients from campaign group no white savior has suggested that stricken cover this story and sent this video called i have a. reason why the story is really important is because the book and the steel in the road the book as a tribute to the united states going to want us to be signed up to now so the should be a stop on display be ugandan government this is what we are doing for now. which aside as you can to find solutions to this problem. we're joined from the ugandan capital kampala by dennis and that of matthew the advocate's he is the legal representative for the mother who filed that petition and cavell is a correspondent is emmy award winning 4 lines film adoption inc the baby business examined for the adoption cases in uganda he's also in kampala nicholas arpaio is
a human rights lawyer who has in the past booked on adoption cases is also in the ugandan capital and joining us right here in our washington d.c. studio ryan hanlon he is vice president of the national council for adoption what it's good to have you here nicholas you used to work on adoption cases it was such an awful experience you gave up why. well about 12 years ago when i went to them actually told me. to provide legal representation and. funding going to local home. i mean that. i gave her a couple of abduction cases but after. doing a couple. because the entire shift in. action process in this country was for correction. of my
conscience. so many occasions so many american. court hearings and only chimes with the court. and my conscience clear. to the american embassy and to the media suggesting. something. unfortunate grab the time. being. doing that. with no time ran by the attorney general of the republic of uganda and say nothing nothing much done about it and to continue to question was allowed to continue you know dennis what you're describing is actually not a typical in with international adoption it's a very normal thing that when us families travel they often don't meet that child until they're in country to finalize the adoptive placement so exactly what you're
describing there is something that we would see in countries all over the world the system is designed that way where the parents aren't in the country or selecting a child in advance they're receiving paperwork from the foreign government or from the foreign entities that they're partnering with the u.s. side and the foreign country side are partnering in that collaboration so wrong that sounds like a transaction it sounds like you don't have to. point out is ready. it's very transactional and we wouldn't want to use those commercial terms and we're talking about anything pertaining to you know children and there always are but what we want to talk about are the safeguards that are put in place and i need safeguards where on the u.s. side we're screening in assessing parents and then in the foreign side there screening the entire situation revolving involving the birth parents and preparing a file on the child to make sure we have the proper medical information the socio biographical history and then the foreign government and the u.s. government or both agreeing to that adoption so the idea is the paperwork that
stumps us before the race not a solution you know if that's the liberal that's ideal argument i think nicholas let me show you something good yet there had then i want to show our audience something that i thought they had to connect with us you want to see the families and out went and met families on both sides of the atlantic because you don't have i think that i think in cases involving children well in malta important it's a big family to be able to have a connection with their char it would simply about the epilogue in my family more than a connection because if the child is jack's you know you can begin to figure out their emotional process for the child there or so i think that our interaction may be terrible experience or didn't and the fact could be if you've not been bam i mean even being suggested that. i think will be your complete disregard it will be emotional i well being of the charles that is am i right in thinking that. the laws
in uganda have changed somewhat of that. that there is a period of time where that up to parents have to be available to that child and have to have contact with that child for a year was it through yes help me out. thank you think what may grow their own say for missing the point i want to call go with my brother nicholas that the relationship between and i don't give parent any child is that our interest possibility and it chose to get there with that but to ensure intending to here and should have an opportunity to live together so that well and grows dark in the ugandan laws under the children's act it only intending to parent is supposed to leave with a child to period of one year and they should of foster that child so that one
period and footnote really the system is cured you know where that gets up becomes explained the look holds as to defeat the ends of justice as far as children's interests are concerned adoptive person says i guess let me just take a pause for a moment i want to play a little bit of the 4th film that was involved in a 10 because it takes us out of the process of the paperwork and really she says the real people behind some of the stories where they have rock have a look. the only place florence genova see their children now is in photos. 5 years ago they sent them to stay with their system r.e.m. the when they returned to collect their children had disappeared from. marrying claims she put them in a boarding school but in fact the children had been taken to america legally
adopted without their mother's knowledge. what do you think about the fact that a family can come from another country and become illegal parents of somebody else's child to be sure you know who the runner nametags family is and then he's going on and i'm going to where to now for long i'm as if i laugh around. and i want to bring into this conversation by vice and tweets and some comments from our online community so look at eva here eva says it would appear that the adoptive parents and all the orphanages are taking advantage of the language communication barriers of the mothers and so they're helping the mothers raise their children the system is enabling the children to be taken away very sad and then this very simply for. they still children what is your take. well i think we were talking about the bill i guess we're talking about the paperwork area and that is significant but i think. what it might be difficult for
people outside uganda and other countries like uganda might be difficult to understand is that institutions don't function as a christian leaders they do elsewhere in the world in the u.s. for example and people's communities and people's families are not necessarily going to be as organized as people in the developed world would expect to it might seem very surprising that 2 mothers could send their children off to boarding school and have no idea that they've been legally adopted without their knowledge that's because documents he can very easily be forged and in that case for example the aunt posed as the mother of those children and was able to take those documents not only to court but also to the u.s. embassy in claiming that she was the mother of those children so the paperwork was the only in that it was all appearing to be official as far as anybody in court or the american embassy or the u.s. adoption agency may have been concerned and i think that is at the heart of what
this problem because if you can't trust the paperwork or if you can't trust the institutions were corrupt and is widespread it's very very difficult to protect the families in uganda who are losing their children and it's also difficult to protect the adoptive families in places like america because when they just go over what's happened when they discover that sport they're also victims of this and every day and you're right that we do need those protections in place and what i would say is that we have protections in place and there are solutions here we can do d.n.a. testing of these individuals to determine are they the birth parent or are they different relative or are they not related to a child at all so that we don't have that exact same situation happen we can do record interviews to make sure this isn't happening but right now the system in uganda is the same as it is in many countries where the birth parents or others would have to go to. and providing revokable consent there then interviewed again by the u.s. consulate and so you know there are there are solutions and we need more safeguards
such as the ones i'm proposing here to put those protections in place because to your point we don't want any any parents the birth parents or the adoptive parents to feel like anything was not all but above board and i had i i do appreciate that that is an effort that some countries are making but what i think again it's difficult for outsiders to understand is that's not necessarily going to help all of the families who were tricked into giving up their children who i met didn't understand what was happening so in many cases they were coached to go to court or to the u.s. embassy and because they understood that they were getting a wonderful sponsorship opportunity for example these people were very very easily exploited by the agents who were finding these babies and a d.n.a. test wouldn't change that because these people were coached to go and lie in court and at the american embassy and again that might seem difficult to understand from the perspective of an american audience but here in uganda one is a single mother she's illiterate she has no money and somebody apparently of
influence like a lawyer or an adoption agent comes to her and tells her what to do it be very difficult for her to resist she's very very easily tricked it's very easy to mislead these people and i mean something that people here are fond of saying is there is no armed adoption. apparently there is no equivalent so it's very difficult to explain to somebody in a rural area i think i have more faith in you know in the people i have gone to to understand what adoption is and to it's it is a cultural practice it's something that happens within families within uganda all the time so i don't think what you're saying is accurate at all and i think that what you're describing here and even even the i don't know that you have there and we had a we had a birthday karen whose child had already been placed for international adoption so the idea that she doesn't understand that i think i just don't have any sense this make or. that our community has been your grab bag you are very very.
communal. children have to get out of the community i'm going to extend it. and still get quantified what higher. crime or another i'm going to leave because no sorry in. north carolina to be without parents because it charlie. born into a community where they don't quite fit what direction is after all the we are all going to have to it's not me they're directed here but socially speaking or cruel the country that. caption was made widespread children belong to because i'm sure going the wrong tree and it didn't get to where they are but that what are you going to wear charlie believed to be a child of the climate by the editors and the reason that i think are so i think that's a good point but for me we're missing an important part of the conversation here and i have completely missed or perhaps purposely excluded an important voice here
which is that there is an organization going around uganda trying to coerce and threaten birth parents and telling them they need to rescind in that same organization is reaching out to us families and doing the same thing so i have a question and a why didn't you report on that in your film. i've actually never heard about it's not something recent so i don't know it's not going anywhere i would have thought it had a name that it was in isolation and reunite let me let me play this because it's a little clip from the film and i think what i did in the film as she did this flat money was a big impact in terms of people feeling that maybe my child will be looked after by by these other people across the ocean not quite understanding maybe what that transaction actually meant and then no question used for one of those organizations so that she was pushed into walking for them and if she didn't do the walk stripping fiat have
a look at the sky. so what was the involvement of journeys of the heart. to provide their financial support and then i would provide this service was the sadness was to find children that can be adopted they wanted to fit in fast 1st because if if you get a child today spend in our home late 23 months. is adopted that means they're spending less on this chain. but if a child comes to his for a year. it's much experience. and they would say that to you they will say we need children that can be adopted 1st so dennis this idea of this mother who doesn't have parent or rights over her own child and you are trying to get them back. is that even possible legally t. is not the parent anymore. but
a sister. career also married the entire situation as it is under the ugandan system where. do you. abuse the processes. information to give. all grounds now because we are hungry it's close to what i know you're saying. we have to all legal guardians living in a 0 misrepresented. periods all the channel was. who will know who the woman a. good years you know was granted was this is why when you look at there was the mother is with us today mr smiley because i know you've been following this case for a long time i just wanted now can you get your child back. if there hasn't been
some detail work that's gone over why there's been some forward involved can this mother become the mother again or were the adoptive parents who are legally the guardians will they at some point be out to get their child from your dad that their child where legal guardians group you are an adoption order it didn't become grounds for telling you all for learning through vocation that their ground when i'm not really going to supervillains that dennis finished being a dentist let dennis finish basically if you're going to is actually going to get her child back that is that's what i was curious about knowing is that possible. it is the responsibility to. be related. let me bring in somebody who's in remembering it another way but never thought i would just want to run this by brian because the concept of international into
country adoptions is quite controversial as they come more and move they're actually beginning to drop and the more countries that say no you cannot take our children out of the country the more places like uganda republic of congo become more attractive for families and parents to possibly dot do you feel that adoption should not be allowed to happen from one country to another country without make life a lot simpler for both said. there's hundreds of thousands millions of children around the world growing up without parents and if we cherry pick one case here and one case there and we make a docu documentary and say you know adoptions why not use act quotes were stuck in the document nowhere because didn't it come across as journalism it came across as activism it didn't show the whole story what i was saying earlier before i was cut off is there are going to say she's going around from birth parent to birth parents threatening them telling them they have to rescind you know telling them that what
they did was wrong and so none of that was reported on in that so-called documentary i don't think that's an accurate depiction of adoption whatsoever in fact i think adoption is a way that we're able to allow hundreds of thousands of children who need parents to get the loving families that they deserve all right before i close i want to show you starting to hear these out and leave it there are a whole tonight everybody nicholas nicholas hoult time this is really important for our audience how will carry on my laptop these adoptions international adoptions i'm going to just pick 2018 i'm going to go down to uganda. to write down here just bear with me everybody because i want you to see the number of adoptions that we are talking about that are registered and then i you can come right back in here here is uganda. i'm going to press go here and then your cancer see how many assumptions happened in the last 26.
yeah thank you i'm just i'm curious about ron's perspective because he's now talking to you to uganda but the law there's a huge volume of evidence which says that. the international adoption coming from places like you is that the american state department right and what is your perspective i use their key to dismiss the idea that they're to be cultural difference that raju why don't you prepared to listen to people here in uganda no i think you're misrepresenting what i'm saying of course i'm willing to listen to them i'm not going to pretend that you're the other 2 guests here are unbiased one of them has litigation on this very matter but you brought of unicef unicef around the world has been shown that they aren't supportive of adoption and they've actually employed mark riley who is part of the couple who's part of this organization reunite that's an adoption that's going to birth parents and harassing them and threatening them and coercing them so i'm glad you raised that with unicef and my question again to you is why are you not reporting on that how could you put
together a documentary where this is widespread reported within uganda and not show another side of the story only one side of the story's been shown in the film you've produced let me move on yes i made your point i do think that it's just that just in a line if you may and i want to move on ahead. because of my 5 year investigation i interviewed hundreds of people and the only coersion i found was coming for on be a job. and that was you're going to let me move on to run if i let 100 euro go here if both major riney don't like the film and as such it's been a long a lot of time working on that film i'm going to move on if i may iraq shadow ember is our best thing you can do as a dog that's not in uganda that says that we can take care of our kids we can take care of them awake and look after them and adopt them within the country have a listen to what she had to contemplate to asho today i think it's really sad that
unscrupulous people are taking advantage of desperate families in the being facilitated by different players within the system i believe adoption should only happen as a last recourse after all efforts have been made to try and resettle children with their families just so they're not kept an institution's because the honestly don't belong in institutions it can then i don't believe that intercountry adoption. to uganda you know children's problems because it's bad enough having to be raised by a family that's not sugar a family but to be taken away from an environment in a culture that you're familiar with into a different country can be very very difficult and honestly we've been conducting on children formally and informally for a very very long time and we do not need to turn to the west. so i'm just looking here and yet you did not come to my my laptop because it's not looking pretty baby are a drag race create family villages do not let foreigners adopt a couple of other i.d.'s change is possible perhaps an adoption of international
treaties is a 1st step in false reporting such as the un african union etc etc etc are there other ways that children uganda can be adopted. in the class i had. there i think there are more important to point out are you going to be in group b. your america hears our children it's not your oh. dear you are going to get in. your country or community american remark. or discussion about that there is a place there is there's a conversation in the us that if i just want to fight just my at and us the reason why parents often adopt overseas is it's very difficult for them to adopt within the united states that's actually not true there's $124000.00 children in the us waiting on adoption they can be adopted from foster care there's also lots of
private domestic adoption the children that are adopted internationally if they are they going to the where are they going fake young babies is that one of the actually americans more so than any other country that will their children children with medical special needs children that are part of sibling groups they're going because there is a need there in your guests or the clip you just showed she said she'd prefer children to live in an orphanage instead of a family that's a ludicrous position children have a human right to grow up with parents have a human right to a family and to have guests on there that say otherwise is really appalling and i think ought to be called out nicolas what you said is absolutely right if i may i did actually speak just before a lot of them are you know i don't speak i don't even watch that are feeling you can guess about that if i don't guess we out the end of the show i can tell that this is the guy that continues to play that you know very well ryan because they idea of him to come adoptions is incredibly controversial event.
thank you for being part of this conversation will continue we appreciate your time here on the us again next time i can't. planet is feeling the heat of the climate an ecological emergency the world's leading scientists are warning of an existential crisis in the face of irreversible changes to the us was all be with you throughout as well on vomit correspondent nick clark will have reports from the front lines of the crisis and showcase new solutions to help called the threat al-jazeera brings you a new weekly planet s.o.s. was set up the facts on the science behind the issues affecting our planet's. october on al-jazeera. this month marks a year since the merger of the journalism chimo the show she made he has signed most a new series of interviews are going to tackling the big issues of our time. world leaders experts and environmentalists will assemble in iceland to discuss the
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