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tv   HAR Dtalk  BBC News  April 6, 2017 2:30am-3:01am BST

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the latest headlines from bbc news. aung san suu kyi has told the bbc she rejects criticism over her handling of the rohingya muslims crisis. the de facto leader of myanmar has denied international accusations that she's been standing by as rohingya muslims are ethnically cleansed by the army in rakhine state. president trump has called the deadly gas attack in syria on tuesday an affront to humanity and said it changed his view on bashar al—assad. previously, the us administration said trying to topple mr assad would not be a priority. pepsi says it's discontinued a controversial advert — starring the model kendalljenner — and apologised for ‘missing the mark‘ as they put it. viewers complained that the video undermined the black lives matter movement. pepsi said they were trying to project a ‘global message of unity, peace and understanding'. now it's time for hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm sarah
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montague. the eu seems in greater trouble than ever before and notjust because of brexit. even founding members of the club — countries like italy — are unhappy about the direction that it is headed in its 60th year. the italian economy has always struggled within the confines of the euro. additionally, it wants its fellow members to help share the burden of the half a million migrants who have arrived on its shores over the past three years. how does the eu need to change if it is to win over the next generation of italians? my my guest here at the italian embassy in london is italy's europe minister, sandro gozi. he is a passionate european. allevi think the eu should change if it to survive and win over the next generation of europeans. —— how does he think the eu should change. sandro gozi, welcome to hardtalk.
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you have said that the beginning of european disintegration has started with brexit. if the eu disintegrating? if it remains the status quo, certainly. it must get out of the status quo. must show there is a political reaction. there area there is a political reaction. there are a series of crisis that has hit the eu. the major one is the brexit decision but there was a financial crisis and migrate three crisis so we need to show that the eu is ready to react and after all, the
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declaration we adopted in rome in march this year is already the first political reaction of the 27 leaders after brexit. but by now, we must implement the political commitment. pa rt implement the political commitment. part of that reaction, is it showing that leaving the eu does not pay? i.e., some punitive punishment to the uk. i don't think we need to further punish the brits. i think already the decision which is going to be very risky for uk. we don't have to approach the negotiation with any punitive intention. certainly, the negotiation is going to be very complicated and certainly, there is less talk about leaving the eu after brexit. the paradox, on the contrary, we were afraid that it would have a domino effect after brexit decision. next
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francis and italy, so on. in public opinion, there is a stronger uncertainty. what is next? what shall the britons do now? it was clear after the 23rd of june shall the britons do now? it was clear after the 23rd ofjune last year, it is helping to make people better think twice about leaving the union. now, the tide is not leaving the union. what about all the people planning to vote for marine le pen who is likely to get through to the run—off of the second round of the french elections coming up? another very difficult question. i hope, i strongly hope that marine le pen will lose. you said if she wins, it's the end of the european union. idid say it's the end of the european union. i did say that. it is the attitude
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and programme of marine le pen, to get out of the eurozone and to get out of the european union. to get out of the european union. to get out of the european union. to get out of nato. if i understand well what she said. this certainly would bea what she said. this certainly would be a major disaster. i cannot —— imagine the eu without france. so we can survive without the uk but not france. yes. what about italy? of course, italy, most polls would suggest that italians are happy with the european union but they are not happy with the euro. think they are still satisfied with the european joints. i think this is more rational than emotional in the sense that people are aware that the european choice is still a good choice for italy. people are not satisfied with the function of the eurozone that this is not a problem with public opinion. we, as the italian government, feel that the
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austerity approach, the economic approach, the existing rules that are implemented in the eurozone, are not the best rule to tackle the current economic challenge we have in europe and italy. we need a new investment policy. we need to post internal and domestic demand —— boost. winnie to boost growth and we need to shift from a set of obsolete rules —— but we need. to a new policy mix in terms of economic investment. this is what we want to do. before we look at what you are proposing as the solution, in terms of the scale of the problem, we talk about brexit and france, the economy said, quoting officials in brussels, if you ask them what keeps them up at night, the answer is always the same, italy. well, honestly, i
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wouldn't waste my night thinking about italy. italy is a country that finally has come back to recovery after yea rs of recession. finally has come back to recovery after years of recession. when debt government took office, —— when the government, today we got a growth of plus i%. it's not enough. government, today we got a growth of plus 196. it's not enough. are projected to be the slowest of this year, barely grown in three years. the reason why is that italy has wasted time in not addressing reforms. there is still work to be done. the second is that the country that suffers the most in public and private investment is italy. this is why we do believe that it is not enough. we want to keep our public
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debt under control. and we expect public debt is a high percentage. we had an irresponsible italian government. i was there, i had an irresponsible italian government. iwas there, i remember. we have reduced the deficit but we cannot reduced the deficit. there has been very little growth in that italian economy. you have a huge problem, yes, of public debt, and of your banks which are in serious trouble. 290 billion pounds of bad loa ns, trouble. 290 billion pounds of bad loans, a fifth of the loans that italian banks hold are bad and that works out to about a third of bad loa ns works out to about a third of bad loans in the eu. part of the reason that everybody else is looking to
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italy, thinking, there is a very big problem with the italian banks. watch you said confirmed one things and brings me to emphasise and other. it confirmed that if there is a problem of bad loans in italy because in other banking systems around europe, you still have a problem. in italy, you don't have a problem. in italy, you don't have a problem with their vets, you have a problem with their vets, you have a problem with their vets, you have a problem with bad loans. why? because the growth has been too low. but also because you didn't deal, italy didn't deal with the problems in the banks when other countries did and now that or has close. jelena that is totally correct. i think that was a very serious mistake —— that is very correct. it was a serious mistake by previous governments to not do what other governments have done, to inject fresh money... so what needs to be done now question mark the longer you leave it, the
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bigger the problem becomes. the reason it is a systemic problem... there is no systemic problem... we are talking about six banks of which one is national. the other are very local, territorial, banks. i rule out the existence of a systemic problem with the italian banks. certainly, there are some specific issues... so no need for the eu to modify its rules because you all know that matteo renzi, your party leader and former prime minister, he asked the eu to suspend state aid rules to allow a recapitalisation and angela merkel basically said no. well, she wasn't supposed to say yes or no because it is not the german government who decides this. she made the point, we wrote the rules for the credit system, we can't change them after two years. we
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should evaluate and as i say, it is whether there are rules on this banking recovery, have been really implemented in the rest of the union. if you look, the only case where there have been really fully implemented has been in the case of cyprus. in the other cases, there hasn't been a full implementation of this rule. if everybody is trying to adapt, to add just, this rule. if everybody is trying to adapt, to addjust, common this rule. if everybody is trying to adapt, to add just, common rules to the specific situation, probably it is because the common rules are not so efficient. so what are you saying? are you saying to ignore the rules ? saying? are you saying to ignore the rules? i am saying is we are playing by the rules on public debt... but nobody else is playing by the rules. well, on public debt and deficit, front and germany didn't play by the rules. we are. we are saying that as
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long as the rules are there, we must respect them but that doesn't prevent us to raise a problem with the existing rules and there is a problem with existing rules on the fiscal economy but in some rules in the banking sector, there are problems. those rules are not fit any more for the needs of the eurozone economy and banks. any more for the needs of the eurozone economy and bankslj any more for the needs of the eurozone economy and banks. i want to stay with a particular problem that italy presents to the eu at the moment because the financial times european economic economist says, " if european economic economist says, "if italy european economic economist says, " if italy wants to stay european economic economist says, "if italy wants to stay in the euro, it needs to send a clear warning to germany and the other northern european countries that the eurozone is set on a part —— path of self destruction unless there is a change of parameters". he makes the point that you could be in a situation that you could be in a situation that italy's withdrawal from the euro would make the biggest default of history because of its eyes of the italian economy. i hardly can imaginea
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the italian economy. i hardly can imagine a eurozone without italy. —— because of the size of the italian economy. with that, i share with what angela merkel wrote but i think it is clear that the eurozone must be completed, it is the words of the european union. we have several times in the last month, lastly with do roam speculation on the 25th of march —— rome. we say yes, we must completed and better shape it. there has to be an election in italy before the end of early 2018 and who is topping the polls? topping the polls at the moment is the five star movement who want a referendum on italy's membership of the euro. well, it is folly. can you imagine a month of a referendum campaign on whether italy should remain or get
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out of the eurozone? this means that they are totally unfit to rule the country and it showing they are totally unfit to rule from the capital of italy, rome, where the disaster of the 5—star campaign is totally wrong. it is clear that this must be avoided. it depends on us. it depends on how effective we are with our government and how convincing and persuasive we would be in the general election. i wouldn't look at the opinion polls. at the moment, it's too soon. instead of bringing the debate to this, i mean, in a way it is better to open a debate to strengthen the eurozone. it is not only the italian
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problem. the fact that the eurozone rules are not adequate to tackle today's challenge is a something... the difficulty with those rules as they have worked with everybody else. the situation with italy is a recent one and it isn't an ancient one. since italyjoined the euro in 1989, real income per head has gone down, it is lower than it was then. iam not down, it is lower than it was then. i am not sure it didn't work for everybody. i think that they have been... i have worked well for one country, one big country at the centre of europe. for all the other countries, they haven't been proved to be effective. otherwise you wouldn't have a problem of unemployment. you wouldn't have the rise of populism. you wouldn't have an issue of economic problems in europe. so the rules of today have only worked for germany? they have been very favourable to germany. now they are changing. we must push,
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further push this change, because it is clear that we need to have a more balanced approach. why haven't they changed until now, if it is only in the interests of one country? probably because nobody has the courage and the strength to run this issue. we thought that it was high time. also for the reason you mentioned, to open a debate on how the eurozone functions, and how the eurozone should function, and we think that there are many reforms to introduce. and what you said about the... i mean, the difficulties is italy since 1999, i agree. and this has been the golden thread of our action since 2013. we have said we have wasted too much time, and we must carry out reforms not because we are a member of the european union, not because we are a member of the eurozone. we must carry out reform because it is an eye on national interest. because it is in
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the interest of the italian people. and even if tomorrow we decided to trigger article 50, and to get out of the union, we would, however, need to implement these reforms. well, let's turn to something else where i know that italy feels that it has carried an unfair share of the burden, which is the number of people arriving on europe's shores. there have been 500,000 over the last three years, and there has been an increasing number in 2016. and some have suggested, a senior eu official has suggested, that actually it is the very mission to pick people out of the water that has led to more coming over. do you think that is true? i think that italy has been alone in saving the european dignity for too much time in the mediterranean. because until 2016, italy was the only one that was searching and rescuing human beings in the mediterranean. and i
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think that we should put the life of women, children, families who flee from the islamic state, isis, before, first and foremost. now, finally the mediterranean has become an issue of common interest, and it has been thanks to our action. now finally we consider libya not an ancient legacy of italian history, but a common problem. a european international problem. and it is clear that we must do more together. as the european union, and in the future i hope it will be ok to tackle the root causes of the migratory flows, to work with the country of origin, to stabilise libya. because it is clear that the central route through the mediterranean is a problem for all of us, and we should be much more effective and more united in managing this problem. but i have to say, that if i have to compare the situation of mid april 2015, when 700 people died in the
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mediterranean, and they had to convene the first extraordinary european summit on migration, and the european summit on the third of february this year, a lot of things have improved. but there are still many things to be done together. notably in working in a new partnership relation with the country of origin. because you want more countries to take some of those that italy is taking in. it has not yet gra nted that italy is taking in. it has not yet granted asylum, because you have actually grown asylum to a tiny number. we have to work more together in relation to europe. we have to share the burden, because in the union, and in the continent, and in the schengen area, we have something which is extraordinary. we have freedom. we have freedom to move, freedom to circulate. we don't have internal frontiers in move, freedom to circulate. we don't have internalfrontiers in the schengen area. if we want to keep this, into something which is the biggest outcome of the european union for our citizens, we certainly
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must work on the external border, and we must revise rules on asylum, which were conceived during the balkan war. how can we imagine the truths which were conceived two decades ago, in another century, for another crisis, it can be effective when the reason you state, going around the war, which is composed of 50 million asylum seekers, are called on the un statistics. your government is now building detention centres, something that under renzi it refused to do on humanitarian grounds. no, it never refuse to do on humanitarian grounds. they have built 16. yes, because we also say that we must work and be more effective as italians and europeans, also on return policies. and we have said it is not only... we have been negotiating for months with the european commission on the so—called
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hotspot, it identified the potential asylu m hotspot, it identified the potential asylum seekers, but we have also said this is only a part of the issue. the other side of the problem... a representative of the northern league, the right—wing northern league, the right—wing northern league, the right—wing northern league, were the league and iare northern league, were the league and i are not made out to be racists inventing fears when we were calling for these centres, and suddenly, as he says, i thought everything was under control and there was a change of policy. if it was right then, why has it changed ? of policy. if it was right then, why has it changed? he pretends to understand, he understands perfectly but he pretends not to understand. we need to do much more on the return policy. so it was a mistake not to do it? we must be more effective on the return policy, because we want the policy to become an eu issue. you coined the phrase the erasmus generation, which was the erasmus generation, which was the idea of politicians like yourself who were pro—european, outward looking. it is a past tense that use it towards me. which brings me to my question. because many people will say it was your
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generation that benefited from arguably the best of the eu. now you look at the polls, you look at the generation who are supporting le pen, for example, who are very young, it is the youth who are unemployed, who feel betrayed by much of what the eu has done. is that a picture that you recognise?” think that when i was 20 years old i got a lot from europe. now that i am ina got a lot from europe. now that i am in a governmental position i feel the duty to give back something to europe of what europe has given to me. and this is why i am so committed in tribute into a better european union. we should never forget that in a little bit more than 110 years the continent has shifted from the auschwitz generation to the erasmus generation. this is what europe has meant for europeans. this democratic revolution that was mentioned. why today are so many young generation,
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many youngsters, who are against the european union? because they didn't find the union where they expected to find the union. they didn't find the union promoting... because they don't havejobs. the union promoting... because they don't have jobs. exactly, they didn't find don't have jobs. exactly, they didn'tfind a don't have jobs. exactly, they didn't find a union developing new social policies to create jobs. your argument to them as more integration, more union? might a nswer integration, more union? might answer is a better economic policy, to boost growth, to create jobs, answer is a better economic policy, to boost growth, to createjobs, and i don't believe that going back to the national borders, going back to nationalism, can be a solution for these young people who do not have a job, and they are probably much more qualified than we used to be when we we re qualified than we used to be when we were 20 years old. and those policies have been devised in the institutions of the eu, in brussels, are they? well, it is clear that we need to shake the brussels institutions. i owe a lot of respect to the european commission, are you work in the european commission, i
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work in the european commission, i work in the european commission, i work in european parliament, but they have lost touch with reality. in the last eight years, they lost touch with the increasing social inequalities. and if you want to tackle this, national policies, local policies, are not enough. we must do more and better also as the european union. otherwise we will have lost the battle. because if you have lost the battle. because if you have lost the battle. because if you have lost the battle of the young generation, you will lose the battle. because europe was always meant to be a project for the young generations. is the eu losing the battle at the moment? we must prevent it from losing. until 2013, it took a very bad direction. now we must correct and redress the direction it has taken. we must save europe from those who want to destroy europe. but we must save europe also from the mistakes europe made. and there are many mistakes,
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and they need to be corrected. sandro gozi, thank you for coming on hardtalk. thank you. hello there. there is a lot of usable weather in the next few days. into the weekend, things are really warming up for england and wales but in the short term we will have quite a lot of cloud around this area of high pressure. light winds generally, but we should see some breaks appearing ina cloud. we should see some breaks appearing in a cloud. some sunny spells, and across the north of this high pressure, or of a breeze. that will feed into the cloud, outbreaks of rain the northern and western scotland, with probably the best of the sunshine for scotland across the east, sheltered from that westerly wind. for northern ireland, for much
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of england and wales, variable cloud and also some sunny spells. i think potentially the best of the sunshine will be across south wales and the south—west of england, much like what we are seen during the course of wednesday, and that will boost temperatures up to 15 or 16 degrees in the warmer spots. otherwise around 11 or 12 where we have the cloud. similar picture on friday, high pressure with us, generally light winds, a lot of cloud but also some sunny spells where it will feel quite warm. high pressure remains with us into the weekend as well, but we start to see some changes. the moves position and pushes into the east, so we get a run of southerly winds. we will be drawing some warmer, drier air across the near continent. that means temperatures will really start to rise. you will notice a difference late on saturday and certainly into sunday, as that wall pushes in across sunday, as that wall pushes in a cross m ost sunday, as that wall pushes in across most of england and wales. notice that blue block behind me, thatis notice that blue block behind me, that is going to make inroads on sunday during the course of the day in the north—west of the country. saturday is looking brighter, more sunshine around, so that will knock temperatures of a little bit. 16, maybe 17 celsius. it is looking
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pretty good in aintree, as well, on saturday. light winds, we have had very little rain in the past week, and no rain in the forecast. temperatures on 15 degrees. there is that with a front i was talking about on sunday, bringing some rain for the north—west of scotland, northern ireland, increasing breeze and temperatures a little bit lower. but the england and wales, pretty much wall—to—wall sunshine. it is going to be pretty glorious, actually, temperatures responding well. 20 to 23 celsius possible across the south—east. so the main messages, for the next few days, because of high pressure, a lot of dry weather, light winds, with some sunshine, increasing amount of sunshine, increasing amount of sunshine as we head on towards the weekend. and that means it will be warmer as well. a big difference on monday. quite a dramatic drop in temperature. 10 degrees or more across the south—east. more cloud, northerly winds, temperatures struggling to get into double figures across the north. a very warm welcome to bbc news, broadcasting to our viewers in north america and around the globe. my name's mike embley. our top stories: as the persecution of rohingya muslims intensifies, we ask the leader of myanmar, aung san syu kyi, if she's failing
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to stop ethnic cleansing. i don't think there's ethnic cleansing going on. i think ethnic cleansing is too strong an expression to use for what is happening. the us signals a new stance on syria after the chemical weapons attack that left 70 dead. i will tell you, it has already happened, that my attitude towards syria and bashar al—assad has changed very much. a reshuffle at the white house, as chief strategist steve bannon loses a key post. but why? two weeks after the london terror attack, relatives of the dead join
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