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tv   BBC News at Five  BBC News  June 29, 2017 5:00pm-6:01pm BST

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it's 5pm. we're at westminster, where mps are about to vote on the content of the queen's speech. are you hanging on, prime minister? the prime minister left for the commons a short while ago. there's a series of votes about the take place. it's being seen as a key test of theresa may's authority. we've set out a programme in the national interest, delivering on brexit and a number of important domestic matters, and i think it's important to deliver that so the government can get on with governing. this is the scene in the house of commons, where labour want to amend the government's programme, especially on brexit and the economy. we're putting forward fundamentally what was in our manifesto in the election, a brexit that guarantees trade relations with europe, a government that ends the public sector pay cap. also today: a retired appeal court judge will lead the public inquiry into the grenfell tower fire. he says it may not be as wide—ranging as some residents hope. the residents and the local people
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want a much broader investigation and i can fully understand why they would want that. whether my inquiry is the right way in which to achieve that i am more doubtful. and no deal yet in northern ireland. the deadline for setting up a new power—sharing executive has passed. it's now extended until monday. it's 5pm. we're at westminster where, eight days after the queen's speech, the house of commons is voting on its content, in what is seen as a prime test of theresa may's authority, after the election in which she lost her parliamentary majority. the prime minister will be depending on the democratic unionists
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of northern ireland to get her legislative programme through the commons this evening. there will be a series of votes, so let's set the context for what's to come. the first vote is a labour amendment tabled by the opposition calling on the government to end austerity policies in public services to reverse falling living standards and to make society more equal. the second amendment, brought by the labour backbencher stella creasy, has been withdrawn because of a change in government policy. stella creasy wants women from northern ireland to be able to have abortions in england provided by the nhs. the third amendment, tabled by labour's chuka umunna, supports continued membership of the european single market and customs union and could result in a potential rebellion from labour mps, asjeremy corbyn has ordered his mps to abstain. and finally we'll have the main vote on the government's programme as set out in the queen's speech.
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we might get all that before 6pm, but it's not guaranteed. the first world mag is under way. we will bejoined by the first world mag is under way. we will be joined by a former conservative deputy prime minister. our chief political correspondent is in central lobby. underline what is at stake in the next couple of hours. this is the moment that the reality of that general election result really begins to sink in if it had not already. for labour mps on all sides of the hose. it is clear that with that arithmetic, that deal with the dup, the government is under pressure from all sides. from labour mps like stella creasy who seems to have won this concession, the government
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agreeing it will find abortions for women from northern ireland coming to england and wales, but also pressure from its own side because several tory mps had raised concerns about that issue and in the end they felt they had to compromise. it is going to be interesting to look at labour because that amendment or net staying in the single market, staying in the single market, staying in the customs union, the official policy is they are going to add steam, labour, but i have spoken to several labour mps who are going to several labour mps who are going to vote forehead. this parliament is going to be dominated by compromise and the government has found that out today. we will be back with you ina out today. we will be back with you in a moment. with me now is lord heseltine, the former conservative deputy prime minister. i was asked in what is at stake.
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what is your answer?” i was asked in what is at stake. what is your answer? i do not think there's anything at stake. the government will win it does not suit the opposition to bring the government down. they will give them about 18 months and then exploit the difficult circumstances that will face them. earlier there were the usual shouts from journalists about quality and hanging on. what is your assessment of the prime minister's authority now that we have these formal votes? the formal vote does not make a difference. the government does not have a majority and everything is going to be overshadowed by the brexit negotiations. inflation is increasing because of the pound. talk of tax increases, interest rate increases, and there's bound to be continuing austerity because the country is living beyond its means. the government has a very difficult situation but the overarching
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problem is the brexit issue. even with the support of the dup after the deal struck a couple of days ago, do you think that the battle over some of the more sensitive votes will be ones that the prime minister will win? it depends what the sensitive votes are but she will win until the opposition have got a majority and it believes collectively that they can gain from a general election. there is no appetite for a general election. people want people to get on with it. they want and mike end to austerity and that is not an option for this economy. the government has to muddle on. there is no way in which i can foresee them winning a general election but the opposition know that and every government i know that and every government i know after 18 months or two years loses public support. that is the time when there is a demand for
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change. that is when opposition parties collectively will try to push the government out. talking about stability in the meantime and going back to the theme of the agreement with the dup you have spent many years in this place and seen the dup in action. what kind of partners will be be and is video credible and will it stick? it is interesting you use the word partners in government which they are not. it took almost two weeks to reach agreement and then only for two years. the dup have elements of policy in common with this government but they have kept their options open. this government is dependent on by—elections and the loyalty of every conservative member of parliament and events. it is a very difficult situation, particularly when they face the most dramatic negotiations this country has faced in my lifetime. that is
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the overarching question that will dominate everything over the next few years. what does this queen's speech tell us about the government's approach to that and what is the likely course of negotiation over the summer months? we have already had more than a hint from michel barnier about how they would like to run things, the sequencing of the negotiations as they would like to see them. what is your reading? very uncomfortable. they will tell us what the negotiations are going to be about and the sequence in which they are going to take place. they will tell us going to take place. they will tell us and we will accept that because we have no choice. we eventually said we are going. very well, they say, these are the terms. if we do not accept their terms we have no agreement. no agreement is perhaps the most appalling prospect for the very large numbers of people in this country whose jobs and livelihood unloving living standards append
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upon our trade relationship with europe. yet one of your colleagues this week was saying in an interview people will wake up to the fact, he said, we are the fifth biggest economy in the world, a very rich country, and our contributions to the eu will be missed and that will inject a note of realism into these talks. you do not buy that? no. the europeans do not buy it. they have to ensure britain is not better off outside the european union. why? for the simplest of reasons, there are other countries who would say the brits have done this and it has not done them any harm, the europeans cannot accept that risk. we are going to come out of this negotiation worse than we went in. that is black and white. thank you. the former conservative deputy prime minister with many years of experience giving his views on this
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very important day for theresa may's government. we have this cold on the queen's speech. some cold water being passed on the significance of this evening. they are still important. the rights of women in northern ireland. one of the amendments tabled this afternoon is about the rights of women in northern ireland to have abortions provided by the nhs in england. as things stand, in northern ireland, abortion is only allowed if a woman's life is at risk or if there is permanent or serious risk to her physical or mental health. the restrictions are much stricter than in the rest of the uk. this afternoon the government averted a possible rebellion by promising that women from northern ireland would no longer have to pay for abortions in england, wales or scotland. our chief political correspondent vicki young is in central lobby for us. tell us more. that shows that the
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government is going to have to compromise. this change that was put down by a labour backbencher, it was nothing to do with the queen's speech but still a crazy realise there was an opportunity to try to get something she has been campaigning on that she feels is unfair -- campaigning on that she feels is unfair —— stella creasy. she had conservatives who are anxious about it as well. tory mps having to mention the fact they had concerns about it meant the government was not going to risk having a defeat on all of this, even though they are confident the overall vote at the end of this our on the queen's speech they can get through with the support of the dup, they felt they had to have a concession. this was the exchange. the figure of £1400 is what northern irish women were having to spend to get an abortion here in england and it is welcome
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the government is saying they will correct this injustice however he will now the devil will be in the detail so can i ask him whether he will make a commitment on behalf of the government to meet with me and representatives of different organisations to look at how we can turn that into reality so that those women in northern ireland today who have finally had their voices heard can use those services as soon as is? please read the letter that has been sent out. we will be funding her department with additional funding so that she can make a grant to the external organisations who will provide these services. i think she will be satisfied when she has read the letter and understood the details and if not i am happy to meet her. stella creasy has been reassured and has withdrawn her amendment which means we will have
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three votes. the first one, mps have been voting for the last ten minutes. each vote takes about 15 minutes. each vote takes about 15 minutes. that is what happens when every vote matters. you have mps hear all the time at all times of the day and night to make sure that these go through. the first vote is these go through. the first vote is the main opposition amendment from jeremy corbyn calling on the public sector pay cap to be lifted, calling for the introduction of a real living wage and calling for those with, as they put it, the broadest shoulders, seeing they should pay more tax. this has been a theme throughout the general election and also since with the saints possibly ofa also since with the saints possibly of a shift from the government on so—called austerity. the idea of a public sector workers who have not had this pay rise for a long time, but this has to change. tory mps
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have voiced their anxieties seeing they are listening to what people have said. the tellers who will be reporting the vote, a few of them getting into place. we will stay with these images because we may get a result soon. i think they are lining up. i can see the speaker on his feet. order. the ayes to the right, 297. the noes to the left, 323. the ayes to the right, 297. the noes to the left,
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323. the noes have it. that means the government's site has defeated that labour amendment, which was expected in terms of the government being able to do with its voting power with that deal with the dup. not partners in government but a deal to cooperate. that confidence and supply arrangement that was announced a few days ago. the speaker calling for the second vote. satisfied by the commitments i have had from the minister responsible about a commitment to working with the sectoral and i am happy to withdraw the amendment. let us send a message to women everywhere that their voices will be heard and their rights upheld. stella creasy has
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withdrawn that amendment, that was to do with the rights of women in northern ireland to have an abortion in england and wales. the amendment has been dropped. we were expecting that but she waited until the last minute to tell us. yes. she said she wa nted minute to tell us. yes. she said she wanted assurances. she was worried that in the past maybe people had withdrawn amendments on promises from ministers and it has not turned out to be what they expected so she said she wanted to speak to the minister. i do not know whether she got to speak to justine minister. i do not know whether she got to speak tojustine greening but she has clearly been reassured. she has withdrawn the amendment. that change will happen. the treasury will fund it and send it to the qualities department and they will fund the service possibly through charity. we have moved to the next vote which is an amendment from chuka umunna which forms a central
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pa rt chuka umunna which forms a central part of the queen's speech, he is calling for all options to be left on the table. he is unhappy that the government has ruled out staying in the single market before negotiations get under way and unhappy about leaving the customs union. what is interesting is that the labour party position is to abstain on this amendment, not to vote either way. we are looking for how many mps decide to join with chuka umunna. iwould how many mps decide to join with chuka umunna. i would expect the liberal democrats, the snp, the greens, plaid cymru, and some labour mps to go againstjeremy corbyn. greens, plaid cymru, and some labour mps to go against jeremy corbyn. we will be back when the vote ends in about 15 minutes. the judge who is to lead the inquiry into the grenfell tower tragedy has promised to leave no stone unturned as he tries to get to the truth of what happened.
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sir martin moore—bick, a retired appeal courtjudge, has been asked by the prime minister to produce an interim report as early as possible. but his appointment has already been questioned by some. sir martin has said he is "doubtful" the process will be as wide—ranging as some residents hope. 80 people are now presumed by police to have died in the fire. the number is expected to rise in the months to come. our correspondent richard lister has more details. the family and friends of tony disson gathered for his funeral today, a short distance from grenfell tower where he died. with an estimated 80 dead, there will be many more such funerals. looming over them, questions about why they died, who was to blame, how can others be protected ? and this is the man now appointed to find the answers, sir martin moore—bick. he consulted survivors
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about how to proceed. they have my greatest sympathy. having said that, i'm absolutely determined that this enquiry will be open and full and will cover all the ground so we reach inclusions that a reliable and can prevent anything happening like this again. we need to be part of every single decision made. but those who escaped grenfell tower that night have demanded more input into shaping this process. they appear not to have been consulted about this appointment. i understand this has to be fair and impartial but i believe the victims of this, you know the tower victims first, evacuees second and local residents thirdly should be the ones leading this and deciding what direction this inquiry takes and what remit it has. and a decision by sir martin moore—bick involving westminster city council is also
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causing grenfell survivors concern. he backed the decision to move a single mother of five to social housing 50 miles away. if i was speaking to families, i would be saying that on its own tells you nothing. the problem is we don't know what the broader record is. setting up the public inquiry was always going to be a delicate process. grenfell survivors are being asked to work with the establishment they feel let them down for decades. the aim is for an interim report this summer. —— within a year. there have been some questions around the inquiry. the former labour lord chancellor is with me. with me now is lord falconer, the former labour lord chancellor and justice secretary.
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there are some questions about his record if i can put it like that. there are some questions about his record ifi can put it like that. he isa record ifi can put it like that. he is a very capable figure who we should respect. give him a chance and he will do it extremely well. he has been criticised for decisions he made at the court of appeal that we re made at the court of appeal that were overturned at the supreme court, the supreme court has more leeway to change the law. you cannot hold against him what he did which was what he thought was the law. he will do his task independently. he should consult on the terms of reference so he can cover as much as possible. he is right the inquiry cannot deal with everything, for example criminal guilt will be dealt with in a criminal trial. he should be given a chance. he is sympathetic enough and capable enough of doing this task. personal and professional qualities, one imagines there were a range of people considered even in
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circumstances like this where there is an urgency. what qualities would have commended him? he will be able to withstand the pressure which will be intense from the media and other forces. he has to be able to command respect of 2030 parties or trying to get him to do things. he has to get the confidence of the community and he is somebody who is sympathetic enough to do that. he has got those three qualities. we should let him get on with the task.|j three qualities. we should let him get on with the task. i do not want to make any potentially superficial point about the way news is managed but is there manner of the announcement of his appointment, is it disadvantageous? he has had a bad start because of the appalling way downing street leaked it out,
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appeared to wobble, it is terrible for him, but it should not be tracked from the fact he is capable of doing it. i can understand why the grenfell tower community are suspicious of any who appears to come from the establishment but he will do it independently and take it where the evidence leads. suspicious is your word, not least on a day when he appears to have lowered the expectations around the scope of what he is able to achieve. he is being straight about what he can and cannot do. the terms of reference have to be consulted upon with the community and he will be able to deal is a question of what caused it, who is to blame, what should be taken as it, who is to blame, what should be ta ken as recommendations it, who is to blame, what should be taken as recommendations for the future. there has to be somebody who can drive this forward. there was a time when you with being part of the queen's speech procession as lord chancellor and justice secretary. i am thinking about your thoughts on
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this process coming up. we have a parliament that looks very different. there is a different feel to things than a few weeks ago. what is the impact on the legislative programme? parliament feels com pletely programme? parliament feels completely different to anything over the last 20 years when although there have been hung parliaments there have been hung parliaments there has always been a coalition and a working majority. the commons are going to decide. the commons decided this afternoon they want abortions on the national health service to be available for people in northern ireland. the government did not want that and the commons won. it is going to be the comments are not the executive who is in the driving seat and that is what we are seeing. people will see the queen's speech later in its final form and the vote we expect to go through. would viewers be right to be confused about healing distinguished figures like you saying it is going to be different? no. every bell that
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goes through, the government could normally force it through with a majority and they are going to have to say is there really a majority and if they cannot persuade the majority they have to drop the bill. they will get the queen's speech in the end but things like the abortion issue which did not even have to go toa issue which did not even have to go to a vote, it is that sort of thing, it is the sense in the commons that is going to determine. the public are going to be much more connected with what the executive does in the months and years to come. thank you. the former lord chancellor and justice secretary. the inquiry into the grenfell tower disaster. the latest official figures that 137 high—rise buildings have failed safety test in 41 local authority areas. four of those are in camden
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where residents from over 600 flats have been told to leave because of fire safety concerns. 0ur correspondent has been meeting some of the people who are still living on the chalcots estate, despite being told to leave nearly a week ago. michelle's family are facing a difficult dilemma. they've been told to leave theirflat in north london. because their tower block has suspect cladding and, after the fire at grenfell, failed an inspection by the london fire brigade. but camden council has still not found michelle suitable alternative accommodation and so she has reluctantly been sleeping in her flat. i don't want to stay in that flat. i mean, last night, my husband refused to stay in it. i stayed in there with my daughter. and at two o'clock i woke up having a panic attack because i heard a bang. ithought, i know they're starting works. ijust don't understand it. there are people still here trying to find somewhere to stay. i can't tell you the emotional impact it's having on everyone, including myself. i've never been in this terrible
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state like this before. panic attacks and everything. it's just so awful. michelle, like others we met, doesn't blame the council. it says it is doing all it can to rehouse the most vulnerable people first in appropriate accommodation as close to here as possible. but sean henry was offered a flat with nothing in it and that simply didn't work for his family. well, at this point i don't have an option. i need to make sure my family is safe. and until i get the appropriate or suitable accommodation, i'm going to stay put. because right now this is the safest place. even though it has been deemed unsafe. this man has a four—year—old daughter with a serious blood disease and a seven—year—old son with severe autism. the hotel they were in wasn't appropriate for his children. i'm not looking for luxury. looking for somewhere to cook, clean, you know, clean ourselves, basically. wash ourselves. and sleep.
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and we can cope somehow. so, like others, he spent the day at the local leisure centre. well, it's roughly five hours since we met him earlier, and he's been inside chatting to council officials and it still seems they haven't been able to find him and his family anywhere appropriate to live. later, though, he was told that they had been allocated a flat nearby. this is a relief. i can bring his playstation, his toys. his book shelves. woohoo! so, it's a struggle for a semblance of normal life, when you're suddenly told your home is not safe, amidst a national scandal about how so many buildings in britain have been built. tom burridge, bbc news, in camden. the latest from camden, where people are looking for suitable accommodation. we can go back into the house of commons for the next
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vote that is expected. we had one vote that is expected. we had one vote on the first amendment. the second amendment has been dropped because the government agreed to that. this is the third amendment which is being tabled by chuka umunna which is to do with access to the single market and the customs union in the brexit process. jeremy corbyn and his colleagues are not particularly keen on this amendment because it cuts across lots of what they have been saying in terms of their brexit approach and he has asked his mps to abstain so the interest is what happens with the labour vote. the speaker is just consulting. 0ur reporter is in central lobby. your thoughts on what be interested in this vote. this is about labour's position on brexit, which some will say has been
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confused during the general election and even some of their own spokespeople have said there are differences of opinion within the labour party. how far they go. there have been suggestions from labour, they said in their manifesto they would leave the single market, but this is going across that, as you say, with several labour mps, several in very remain areas. chuka umunna saying he had the largest remaining vote during that referendum. he feels justified, remaining vote during that referendum. he feelsjustified, as do others, in voting for this amendment, which sets out proposals to stay in the single market and customs union. they are, though they played down, defying the whip, the way they have been told to vote byjeremy corbyn. they are being told to sit on their hands. labour mps doing that though didn't vote, many of them, they sat on the benches. but there will be many who decide they feel this is such an important issue, that this
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goes beyond tribalism and party lines, and they say across the house of commons people want to support this. order, order! the ayes to the right 101, the noes to the left 322. the speaker will repeat the result. the ayes to the right 101, the noes to the left 322. so the noes have it, the noes have it. unlock. 101 votes for the amendment put forward by chuka umunna, to do with access to the single market and the customs union. 322 against. we weren't expecting that amendment to carry. a quick word, vicki before we move on stock i assumed the snp and lib dems may
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have supported it but it means there are dozens of labour mps who could have defied the leadership in voting to stay. keep that option of staying in the single market and customs union on the table. thank you. the bells ringing and the division bells ringing in the house of commons. this is the final vote, vote number four, the final vote on the substance of the queen's speech, the government's: motion. we will be backin government's: motion. we will be back in there to get the result as soon as it happens in 15 minutes time also. with me as a barrister, director of the good law project, who has been providing free legal support to the survivors of grenfell tower. good enough for you with us. we'll talk about that and today's vote in the commons because i know you have a clear and strong view on the brexit process as well. but the appointment of this retired appeal courtjudge today, lord faulkner says he's well—qualified, a distinguished figure and should not
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be blamed for certain judgments distinguished figure and should not be blamed for certainjudgments he has made in the past. what is your perspective? i broadly agree with that. there are two questions here. one is whether he is the right person to do the job. some criticisms have been made. i suspect those criticisms on balance are unfair. government is fishing in a very shallow pool to find a judge. all high courtjudges are mainly white, male from independent schools. that is not a criticism that can fairly be made about him. the judgment that been found that might be seen as unsympathetic towards grenfell tower victims has to be seen in context of thejudgment he victims has to be seen in context of the judgment he has delivered victims has to be seen in context of thejudgment he has delivered over his life. i'm concerned about the process. i don't hear government explaining to residents of grenfell tower why he was thought to be the right person. i don't hear a government engaging with residents about what the terms of reference of the inquiry should be. i don't hear
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government offering to appoint counsel, so that they can, to the residents, so the residents can negotiate with the government about what the terms of reference should be. what we know about the terms of reference causes me to be deeply alarmed that government is turning a blind eye to many features of this disaster that are apt to be repeated in other cases. can any of that be on the fact there was urgency to this process customer know, i don't think so, i'm afraid. it is a matter of whether the government is really trying to put itself into the shoes of residence of grenfell tower, and understand how voiceless, how neglected they feel by the establishment. i think if government was doing that, it would be going about this process in a very different way. it's too early to say whether sam martin will be a good appointment. —— sir martin. what we
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can say about the terms of reference and the government's conduct doesn't fill me with optimism. are you saying, within the legal community is it being said there was another potential candidate who is better qualified, more prominent? what is the word? ifi qualified, more prominent? what is the word? if i was the government i would want to find somebody from a background... sir martin went to grammar school, i don't do much about his family, i would want to have found a high court court of appealjudge was black or asian, because so many residents of g re nfell tower word because so many residents of grenfell tower word themselves of the bme community. and he's not a judge with particular expertise in construction law, either. if you ask yourself, what was the question government asked that produced sam martin —— sirmartin
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government asked that produced sam martin —— sir martin has the right person? not that he won't do a good job, but it causes questions in your mind about what the government is thinking and why it is doing what it's doing. when you talk to people and represent people on the ground, what are the main things they are looking for, beyond immediate support? we have heard much of that in recent weeks, beyond that, what are the main avenues of support they would like to pursue? the issues i've been dealing with that have been concerning people are about recovery of remains. i've been helping two muslim families recover from the tower, the remains of their relatives. the police have been polite. they've not always been as helpful as i think the law obliges them to be, but when pushed, as is so often the case, they have responded. so people are very concerned about that. you want government, you want the police to release bodies as quickly as possible, so that people can begin the process of healing. and if you
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are muslim orjewish, you need to bury the body quickly. that is a concern. the other thing is, people are still not feeling heard. enquiries like this have the power to bring communities back together again, or, as we saw with hillsborough, they have the power to drive communities apart. as a society, we should very much be wanting this to be a healing process , wanting this to be a healing process, not something that is expedient to the government of the day, but terribly damaging to social cohesion in the longer run. we are out of time but we will talk again about the brexit process. thank you for joining about the brexit process. thank you forjoining us. the qc for us who has been doing such a lot of work with those families, the victims of the grenfell tower disaster. a quick look in the house of commons stud. the vote is still taking place on the queen's speech. very soon i will bejoined by lord the queen's speech. very soon i will be joined by lord trimble, the queen's speech. very soon i will bejoined by lord trimble, former first minister of northern ireland, to talk about the queen ‘s speech on the parliamentary process around it. with that in mind, they also say
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today the deadline for power—sharing talks in northern ireland passed shortly, a short while ago this afternoon, the negotiations continue. northern ireland secretary james brokenshire will make a statement to parliament on monday. ministers say they will take a couple of days to reflect, while talks continue. they say they are still hopeful that can be a resolution to this over the weekend. in other words, to get this power—sharing executive up and running again, after many months of stalemate. let's talk to our correspondent adds stormont for a quick update. yes, the deadline to restore power—sharing pastor at four o'clock and that is the fourth time the parties here in northern ireland have missed the deadline. six months, almost six months ago after the devolved executive collapse, northern ireland is still without a devolved government. the major issue between the democratic unionists and sinn fein seems to be of irish language. sinn fein want a piece of
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legislation establishing an irish language act which would detect and promote the gaelic tongue. the dup are pushing for a broader law which would also incorporate some cultural elements which are important to unionists. in terms of where we go from here, james brokenshire, the northern ireland secretary putting a positive spin on it at lunchtime. it became clear these talks weren't going to succeed by the deadline. he said the prize was still achievable. so the parties are being allowed to talk on beyond the statutory deadline, which has now passed, and james brokenshire is to make a statement to mps on monday about the future of stormont. he is hoping that a few daysin stormont. he is hoping that a few days in between now and then might give the parties some extra time just to try to get a deal over the line. but i have to say, it's not just the irish language issue holding things up, a few other issues in the mix as well. no agreement over same—sex marriage or agreement over same—sex marriage or a bill of rights for northern
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ireland, that is something else sinn fein wants, and no agreement over how to deal with hundreds of unsolved killings from the troubles. plenty of work to be done if power—sharing executive is to be restored by early week. chris, thank you for the latest on the process of trying to rebuild that power—sharing executive. as promised, the former first minister of northern ireland, lord trimble, leader of the ulster unionist party until 2005, and joint winner of the nobel peace prize. good to have you with us thank you for joining good to have you with us thank you forjoining us. your good to have you with us thank you for joining us. your thoughts good to have you with us thank you forjoining us. your thoughts first of all on where we are with the process of trying to rebuild that in northern ireland ? well, once again, deadlines have not been met. some issues have been resolved but there are other issues left. and there are doubts about how anxious people are to actually have anxious people are to actually have an agreement. because some of the issues, one would have thought, sensible people could resolve these,
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but then this is not unusual. which of those issues do you think could be resolved fairly quickly, with a sensible approach? when people talk about a language act, for unionists this is a difficult thing because republicans tend to use the irish language as a weapon. but looking at it from a united kingdom point of view, there is a language legislation in wales, language legislation in wales, language legislation in wales, language legislation in scotland, the scottish one is particularly significant because scott steele it came from ulster and it was the ulster dialect of irish which doesn't feature as much in the irish language as it should. that is another story. what is the difficulty, to explain to viewers, given you have raised two templated which are in existence, what is the difference, what is the problem with transferring that? i have to leave that to the parties, i am not a
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participant. do you think it's achievable? i would think, particularly looking at it from a unionist point of view, who would wa nt to unionist point of view, who would want to have something that made northern ireland look more different, when you have comparisons in wales and scotland, i think there might bea in wales and scotland, i think there might be a way through there. when we look at the dynamics of this process a re we look at the dynamics of this process are now theresa may has formed a kind of agreement with the democratic unionists recently, how does that alter the process of looking for some kind of resolution? i don't know it has any significant effect on that. is interesting, when the government announced the package for northern ireland, it repeatedly referred to the assembly and to the executive. it's not a package for dup, it'sa executive. it's not a package for dup, it's a package for the assembly and the executive can shape it and is expected to shape it. that in a senseis is expected to shape it. that in a sense is an inducement for reforming that executive, so they can do just
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that. what if we get to monday and what if another deadline passes? is it just another what if another deadline passes? is itjust another deadline what if another deadline passes? is it just another deadline which what if another deadline passes? is itjust another deadline which can be extended again? that in fact is what has happened. it's interesting to see the secretary of state saying he will reflect over the weekend. now, just guesswork from my point, but there might be a hint there that he might come forward with some suggestions, maybe even table some proposals. this is the sort of thing he does occasionally on these situations. he will have to think if it is something that can make a difference. from the point of view of most people in northern ireland politics, what they would underline here is we don't want a return to direct rule. that would not be a step forward. and once you do that, you lose impetus and you then might have ages before you get things sorted again. they have to get them sorted, they have to get an
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agreement, but we should not go back into direct rule. i hope you don't mind me asking your question which is partly personal and partly based on party perspective... your thoughts a former uup leader on the dup, forming with the conservatives and having leverage in the process, what is your thoughts on that?” and having leverage in the process, what is your thoughts on that? i was ina similar what is your thoughts on that? i was in a similar situation in 95—96. my predecessor within a similar position in the 19705, when predece55or within a similar position in the 19705, when he helped prop up a liberal government. there are echoes. doesn't cause you any tanks? you just accept it as pa rt any tanks? you just accept it as part of the political reality, despite the fact it's a political party that is not yours? what jim did on that occasion, he got fair representation for northern ireland at westminster. i got a select committee in northern ireland which should have been done. just because
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it's fair and there's a reasonable ta5te it's fair and there's a reasonable taste for it... there were other things one got as well. neitherjim nor myself didn't think of having a formal agreement. that is something that one wonders about. do you commend the deal done between arlene fo5ter commend the deal done between arlene foster and theresa may? is it something you commend?” foster and theresa may? is it something you commend? i would need to know more about it. one of the things, particularly when the trea5ury comes things, particularly when the treasury comes in, a things, particularly when the trea5ury comes in, a lot of things have been repackaged. some of the items in this seemed to have been repackaged and we don't know vertically how much extra there is in itand vertically how much extra there is in it and how much is actually going to go to improving the economy. northern ireland has a lower gdp than any other major part of the united kingdom. we need the economy to grow. the public sector is far too big. there is some indication that the public sector is crowding out the private sector. more public sector money coming in might increa5e sector money coming in might increase that, and i5
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sector money coming in might increase that, and is not in the long term may be a good idea. that i5 long term may be a good idea. that is just long term may be a good idea. that isju5t a long term may be a good idea. that is just a thought. long term may be a good idea. that isjust a thought. a quick last thought, an impossible question in a way, how optimi5tic are you there will be a new executive 5et way, how optimi5tic are you there will be a new executive setup in the next weeks or months? there will be, the institutions will not collapse. there will be go no —— there will be no going back. sometimes people around in circles and it will be sluggish. good to speak to. thank you. the former fir5t speak to. thank you. the former first minister of northern ireland, lord trimble, with his perspective on the events in stormont. and the reshaping of power in recent weeks. back into the commons on vote is going on on the last amendment, on the queen's speech. vicki you are still with us, we may get a vote? it looks pretty close. here we go. order, order. the ayes to the right 323, the noes
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to the left 309. so, the clerk taking the votes to the speaker. the ayes to the right 323, the noes to the left 309. so the ayes have it. the ayes have it. unlock. that i5 it. the ayes have it. unlock. that is the main vote on the green's 5peech is the main vote on the green's speech and the government get5 is the main vote on the green's speech and the government gets its way, 323—309. speech and the government gets its way, 323-309. what does that mean? a majority of 14, the same as last night. it does show the government has a majority because of that deal with the dup, but as we saw earlier today, they are still very vulnerable to pressure from all sides, having to give way on an amendment that was put down about abortion rights for women coming from northern ireland.
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iamjoined by from northern ireland. i am joined by the leader of the lib dems, tim farron. that was not a 5urpri5e dems, tim farron. that was not a surprise in many ways but can i speak about the previous vote, 5taying speak about the previous vote, staying in the single market? chuka umunna put that down. 100 odd mp5 voted for it, that is a majority in the house of commons.” voted for it, that is a majority in the house of commons. i think the disappointing news tonight, no 1's surprise by the conservative — dup coalition winning the vote tonight. what was surprising is jeremy corbyn and the bulk of labour mps would not vote for britain remaining in the single market. ithink vote for britain remaining in the single market. i think that is a betrayal, especially for young people who put their trust in the labour party a few weeks ago. the liberal democrats backed that amendment, we believe however you voted in the referendum a year ago, britain's strongest position economically has got to be to be in the single bucket. theresa may should be arguing for britain's membership of the single market on britain's terms. it is very sad jeremy corbyn and most of the labour party didn'tjoin jeremy corbyn and most of the labour party didn't join us jeremy corbyn and most of the labour party didn'tjoin us in calling for that. it means the idea is dead now?
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what there5a may has said is we are leaving the single market, leaving the customs union a5 leaving the single market, leaving the customs union as it currently stand5. speaking to the dutch prime minister a week ago, he was clear if britain was to bid for membership of the single market on our terms, and with conce55ions, that would be entirely possible, something that could be achieved. of course, it is not dead in the water at all. what we saw today with the concession on the abortion charges amendment was the abortion charges amendment was the government is very vulnerable to ideas that kind of cross party lines. there is every chance, moving forward , lines. there is every chance, moving forward, if onlyjeremy corbyn and the labour party wills show some backbone on europe on the single market, for us to have a deal at the end of all this is that suits 100% of the british people, not 48 or 52. you think you could come back to this whole issue, that once we are into the negotiations that is going on, you still think there will be further chances in this house to try make that happen, 5taying further chances in this house to try make that happen, staying in the
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5ingle make that happen, staying in the single market? which many people think means 5taying single market? which many people think means staying in the eu? single market? which many people think means staying in the 5mm doesn't mean 5taying think means staying in the 5mm doesn't mean staying in the eu. in 75 the referendum wa5 doesn't mean staying in the eu. in 75 the referendum was three to one in favour of being in the market. the referendum year ago was 50—50, ju5t marginally in the leave's favour. they are linked to the different. i think britain would be better off in the eu but i accept the result of the referendum. but surely we are able to put forward the case for a different kind of outcome. being in the single market i5 outcome. being in the single market is massive for ourjobs, for the cost of our weekly supermarket 5hop, for the success and relevance of britain and other government and leader of the opposition that want to fight for britain's mention above the single market. the liberal democrats will lead that fight. thank you very much indeed, tim farron. the government has got its way over all, that deal with the dup means they have managed to get through their green's speech, their programme for government they hope for the next five years. thank you very much. vicki young with tim farron. just to underline
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that after that series of parliamentary vote a final vote concerning there5a may has got her green's 5peech through the house of commons, a majority of 14, helped by the democratic unioni5t5 coming on board. with me is thejournalist and also caroline wheeler, deputy political editor of the sunday time5. good to be with us. we have a result, the queen's 5peech has gone through by a majority of 14, quite mode5t through by a majority of 14, quite modest in historical term5. does that mean this government is rather more stable than some people have been otherwise sane?” more stable than some people have been otherwise sane? i mean, it's not a huge majority, is it? i think the last few days have expo5ed not a huge majority, is it? i think the last few days have exposed to us how weak and unstable this government look5. that has been writing much the sort of labour thinking behind the amendment that they put forward, so that would have had an effect in parliamentary term5 and outside of parliament as well. the amendments on things like austerity, ending austerity and
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ending the pay cap on public sector workers. the5e ending the pay cap on public sector workers. these are labour policie5 that they think would have got a mandate and support in the general election we've just had. it was also signalling to the public, these are the mp5 that did not vote for those amendments. come the election, which could be at any time, that will be a pa rt could be at any time, that will be a part of the campaign. you're reading on where we are with this government's stability following this vote? clearly there will be a lot of relief it has gone through. would they be right to be relieved? i think certainly in terms of where we we re i think certainly in terms of where we were lastly, when the dup deal was looking shaky, it wasn't until monday we had a substantive deal agreed. there will be backbenchers today saying she is looking less shaky than she did last week and getting the green's speech through isa getting the green's speech through is a significant milestone, in terms of her managing to form a government and move things forward. the problem she has now, of course, this is all going to take huge amount of work. as we have seen today, people have been called from abroad to come back and vote. it is likely that we'll be
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the case for the entirety of the parliament, however long it has to run. she came back today from the la st run. she came back today from the last minute from berlin. boris johnson called back. i have never seen as many whips in parliament as i have, pulling people in the quiet meetings and chats. that will be the story of this parliament. that is a lot of work for a lot of people. on fridays, private members bills, there weren't any tories in the top five, which means on friday the tories will have to come in as well because there will be some trouble making fair. it will be a real story of mischiefmaking, troublemaking, labour party really determined, and we have seen that today with the amendment on abortion, to create as much mischief as i possibly can.” think that is what we will see continuously, and that will make her more and more wobbly as time goes on. interesting, what happened on the amendments, especially the one put forward by chuka umunna on access to the single market and customs union. some mp5 from other parties voting, but dozens of labour
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mp5 who were backing that vision, which is not really in line with whatjeremy corbyn which is not really in line with what jeremy corbyn and which is not really in line with whatjeremy corbyn and john mcdonnell have been saying. how did you read that vote? i think that is the least interesting one. the vote on the single market, yes, you are right, it does seem to be out of kilter with the way, the direction the labour party leadership is going. it seems to be about the sort of direction of travel. the leadership will say, what's important is the outcome. we want a brexit negotiation which guarantees jobs on the economy. the way that we arrived there is less important, and that would be the sort of distinction between buyers and chuka umunna's position. what has been much more interesting is the leverage the labour party was able to exert an parliament and to really show up the weaknesses of the government, when it comes to things like austerity public sector workers' pay. we havejust had a survey which are shown how out of kilter this current government is with public attitudes, where there
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now seems to be more public support... more spending more tax popular yes, because of the crippling effect austerity on public sector pay cuts have had. it shows the government very out of step with the government very out of step with the public. i think that's what will be interesting to see, how sustainable it will be going forward. a final point... in terms of the kind of mood on the conservative backbench, and focusing on that because clearly it will have such a big impact on the way theresa may conducts and presents policy in the coming months, what was your reading of that mood today after this vote and what other signs of potential trouble you if any?m will be interesting. about three weeks left a run of this current session and then we go into recess. some people think recesses a good thing and will shore up her position, give her a thing and will shore up her position, give hera bit of thing and will shore up her position, give her a bit of a break, let the dust settled over the election result and other people who think it will be quite a dangerous period of time for her. the conservative backbenchers will go
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back into their constituencies and talk to the grassroots. there is a feeling and perception she's pretty unpopular there at the moment. at the same time, there is also this whole issue of leadership, which is if not theresa may, who? at the moment nobody has an answer to that. until they do have an answer to that, at the moment she is pretty safe where she is at present. caroline and rachel, good to talk to you both. thank you. we have had a series of votes on the queen's speech and it has now gone through the house of commons that the majority of 14. more news for you on bbc news at six coming up in a few minutes and we will be back at 10p. in the weather. good evening. a pretty miserable day for some parts of the united kingdom. this is the view this afternoon in edinburgh. a road and some huge puddles and the rain got down to north wales as well. but it wasn't doom and gloom everywhere, a little brighter weather to be had in the far south—east. a little
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sunshine breaking through the cloud in surrey. here is confirmation of a pretty wet day across scotland. the rain moving west across northern ireland. for the heart of england and wales, light rain and drizzle, a lot of cloud. notjust wet but windy as well, quite a chilly day for the aberdeenshire, 12 degrees. windy overnight on the western side of the uk, extensive low cloud in the north—east and pretty cloudy across the board. temperatures not dropping away too far, 10—14. it will be a bit of a wet start in wales and the south—west of england. the rain heavy for a time. i suspect it will ease off into light and patchy rain by the afternoon. lots of cloud and spits and spots of rain, largely dry towards the london area and into east anglia, maybe some breaks in the cloud but the cloud will be extensive in northern england. a lot of low cloud as well, so pretty great condition. morning rain in northern ireland and western scotland, eastern scotland will see some rain as well, and some pretty
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low cloud. temperatures similar to what they are this afternoon '5 first thing in the morning. as we go through the day, the rain becomes lighter and more patchy but it stays quite windy. beginning to dry up in northern ireland and western scotla nd northern ireland and western scotland as the main area of rain edges its way towards northern england into wales, further rain in the south—west. 23 in london, not so bad, only 14 in aberdeenshire, with some patchy rain in the afternoon. the main area of rain drifts towards the near continent and as it does so into saturday morning, we get a ridge of high pressure. that will settle things down for the most part. i say that because there will bea part. i say that because there will be a spell of wind and rain moving across scotland and northern ireland but for the bulk of england and wales, a decent day on saturday, bright and breezy, variable cloud. 23 in london and a bit warmer in aberdeen, 17. some rain in england and wales overnight but sunday similarto and wales overnight but sunday similar to saturday, breezy with some rain in the north and west, england and wales, another decent day, 23 the top temperature once again in the south—east. a miserable day for some today. the
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weekend offers much better prospects for getting out and about, a lot of dry and bright weather to be had. for some it will be feeling a little warmer as well. tonight at six, a retired judge will lead the inquiry into what happened at grenfell tower. sir martin moore—bick met local residents today — and he's told them what he's been asked to look at. i've been asked to undertake this inquiry on the basis that it would be pretty well limited to the problems surrounding the start of the fire and its rapid development. but those who still live in the shadow of the disaster want him to go further — why were their warnings ignored? whether he will get to the bottom of who was responsible for causing the fire in the first place is a different matter, and that's the one that's really concerning residents at present. we'll be asking if this judge is the right person for the inquiry. also tonight... on the day of the vote on the queen's speech, a surprise decision on abortion
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for women in northern ireland. australian police charge cardinal george pell

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