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tv   Click  BBC News  November 19, 2017 12:30pm-1:01pm GMT

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even? recent days, weeks or months even? i'm not aware of any specific discussions between the mdc leadership and faction of zanu—pf which is now effectively in charge, but it is clear from the position that had been taken by the opposition parties that they are in agreement that mr mugabe must go. that is the position being taken by the mdc, that there should be a transitional arrangement that should be put in place after mr mugabe is gone, be put in place after mr mugabe is o . be put in place after mr mugabe is gone, in order to fix the democratic state and ensure the country starts off on state and ensure the country starts offona state and ensure the country starts off on a good foot. very briefly, are you expecting this to unfold peacefully, as it has until now? well, i do hope so. we have had struggles in the past, challenges in the past. i hope that zimbabwe is able to continue the peaceful path they have taken so far. yesterday we had a huge mass protest in harare on it was very peaceful. that was very positive and i hope that continues.
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alex magazisa, former adviser to the mdc leader, many thanks indeed for joining us on the bbc. are breaking news today, robert mugabe has been removed as president of zimba bwe's ruling mugabe has been removed as president of zimbabwe's ruling zanu—pf, but he is still president of the country. pressure very much building on him to step down, otherwise it looks as though he will be forced out as president of zimbabwe. this is bbc news. hello, this is bbc news. the headlines: president mugabe has been dismissed at the leader of the ruling zanu—pf party — a day after tens of thousands marched on the streets calling for him to resign. his wife, grace, has also been expelled from the party. police say they're confident that a body found near swanage is that of the missing teenager, gaia pope.
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gaia's sister described her as "beautiful, emotionally wise and intelligent." the chancellor, philip hammond, has said britain needs to build an extra 300,000 homes a year to make an impact on the housing crisis. tests of driverless cars on uk roads are set to be given the go—ahead in this week's budget. that is our objective — to see fully driverless cars, without safety attendant in the car, on the roads in the uk by 2021. let's get more now on the sacking of president mugabe by zimbabwe's ruling party, zanu—pf. he has been replaced as party leader by former vice—president emmerson mnangagwa, who mr mugabe attempted to oust nearly two weeks ago to position his wife, grace for succession. it was this move that prompted the military takeover last wednesday.
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let's speak to ben brown in harare. a hugely dramatic moment for zimbabwe, a humiliating moment for robert mugabe? absolutely, as a humiliation for robert mugabe. here's a man who has led this country for 37 years and who has led the zanu—pf party for 37 years. being kicked out, sacked, dismissed, as party leader, unceremoniously. the central committee of zanu—pf met here in harare today, unanimously decided he should no longer be party leader. grace mugabe also stripped of her position as leader of the women's league in zanu—pf. it is important to stress that even though he has been kicked out as party leader, he is still technically president of this country. that is
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because so far, despite having negotiations with the generals who lodged the military takeover here, he has not agreed to go voluntarily, he has not agreed to go voluntarily, he has not agreed to simply quit his office as president of zimbabwe. he looks like he is stubbornly hanging on to that. so the party have turned against him, the army have turned against him, the army have turned against him, the people yesterday showed they have turned against him by turning it in huge numbers on the streets to demonstrate against him. yet still, technically, he is president of this country. but it is another historic day here in zimbabwe, after those extraordinary scenes, those euphoric scenes yesterday, now zanu—pf, his body, the ruling party, stripping him of the ruling party, stripping him of the party leadership and making emmerson mnangagwa the new party leader, the man who was vice president. we can bring in now a man
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who has written a book about robert mugabe. you have written extensively about robert mugabe. for a man of 93, this must be such a humiliation to be simply sacked unceremoniously as party leader. absolutely, it is a humiliation for robert mugabe. i was in zimbabwe for the bbc in 1980, when he first took over power and i rememberthe when he first took over power and i remember the joy when he first took over power and i rememberthejoy and remember the joy and jubilation when he took that position. but he is now, as he took that position. but he is fiow, as you he took that position. but he is now, as you say, hanging on, and it is going to be extremely difficult to get him out, unless he resides balotelli, letters to be a joint sitting of both houses of parliament, they have to have a two thirds majority, and this could take a while. unless someone can persuade him to stand down, he is in place
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and getting him out will not be easy. he is a very, very determined man. when you say it could take a while, constitutionally, are we talking about days or even weeks? because the people here are very hungry for change. there is such an appetite now after those demonstrations we saw yesterday. well, this provision has never been tested, nobody knows quite how long it could take and what kind of obstacles could be put in the past. it could take days or weeks. i'm sure everybody in harare is desperate for it not to happen but what can robert mugabe extract in return? that is really the question. and it was only more or less when he was told by the president of mozambique that he had to sign the lancaster house agreement in 1979 and 1980 that he accepted to do that. he has held out time and again against all sorts of challenges. he
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is not someone who will be rushed easily. i would is not someone who will be rushed easily. iwould not is not someone who will be rushed easily. i would not write him off just yet, although he may go, he may wish to preserve the position of his family and his wife, and in the circumstances, you may go, but it will not be an easy matter. of course, the military, they could just lock him into a cell and throw away the key, or whatever. but they have got to make this look constitutional, is that you're reading of a? absolutely, and in essence , reading of a? absolutely, and in essence, that is precisely the point that the african union has made through its constitution, they have said they will not accept any unconstitutional changes of power. in essence, as unconstitutional changes of power. in essei'ice, as soofi unconstitutional changes of power. in essei'ice, as 50011 as unconstitutional changes of power. in essence, as soon as they forced him out of office, it is announced constitutional act. him out of office, it is announced constitutionalact. let's him out of office, it is announced constitutional act. let's not forget, the 20 30th election was endorsed by the southern african leaders and by the african union. —— 2013 election. despite the fact that
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nearly 1 2013 election. despite the fact that nearlyi million people, particularly in the urban areas, we i’e particularly in the urban areas, were deprived of the vote, the southern african leaders said it was fine. they cannot now turn round and say, hold on, he was not legitimately elected. he was, therefore, you can only use legitimate means of getting him out of power unless you stage a coup, and the generals and the southern african leaders are absolutely desperate not to go down that road. but one way or another, it is pretty clear he is finished, however long it takes, it is over for robert mugabe. what do you think for those? because it looks like emmerson mnangagwa will take over, the former price —— vice president will become the new leader, he has been made leader of zanu—pf, some people are saying, will he be that different? he was the security chief, much feared and much hated under robert
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mugabe. how do you see that kind of transition? i think you are right, he is a man who was certainly very much feared, he also was on who was implicated in the disastrous involvement that zimbabwe had in the aircraft and republic of congo, he is said to have made a very large much money from that, there is no proof of that but it has been said time and again, he is one of the richest men in southern africa, and in the circumstances, he could be quite similar to mugabe. but you can fievei' quite similar to mugabe. but you can never tell. it is only when people actually have power in their hands and can influence the destiny of a country, then you know what they can actually do. but of course then, it is too late. because in a sense, do you see what happened here yesterday asa you see what happened here yesterday as a sea change? all those people on the streets, it almost looked like a revolution, although i know it wasn't, but it felt like something
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had changed for ever in zimbabwe, that the people would no longer be prepared to accept a mugabe style autocrat ruling. i think you're right, i think something has snapped in people in harare, and i was out in the streets of london with zimbabweans, the must have been a couple of thousand who came to the high commission, and the jubilation there was amongst them, they were reflecting the feeling in harare. 0ne reflecting the feeling in harare. one thing was very interesting, i spoke to an old woman who said she had been protesting outside the high commission for weeks, not months, trying to change things. nothing had happened. i said to her, but are you worried this might replicate what happened under mugabe? she said, no, today we celebrate, we are prepared today we celebrate, we are prepared to take on anything that comes on our way. and zimbabweans are enormously resilient, they have been able to stand up to the pressure of the mugabe government four years. several million have gone into
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exiled in south africa, yet they have still kept on going. it has been an extraordinary achievement of ordinary zimbabweans, they are very resilient, i have the greatest respect for them. and given half a chance, they will have a decent, well run, democratic country, all it requires is the judgment that allows them to do that. i cannot see that emmerson mnangagwa, once he becomes the de facto leader of the country, will not allow that. one just cannot know how people act. —— how he will act. for now, forgive very much for being with us. —— thank you very much. i think we can show you some of the scenes there have been of celebration after the news that robert mugabe was sacked, dismissed as leader of the ruling zanu—pf party at that central committee meeting here in harare earlier. you
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can see there, just some of the members of the central committee dancing with joy, smiling, members of the central committee dancing withjoy, smiling, looking incredibly happy and joyous. they would have been slavishly loyal to robert mugabe in the past and now, so delighted that they have taken that vote, shaking hands with the light that they have managed to kick him out as leader of the party, kick grace mugabe, his wife, most loathed in this country, kick her out as leader of the women's league in zanu—pf, and make emmerson mnangagwa the new leader of the party. we were hearing probably that he will be the de facto leader of the next transitional government. the problem is, as we have said, this is not the end for robert mugabe as president, he is still technically president of the country although he has been
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sacked as party leader. until either the generals can persuade him to resign, or parliament can impeach him. that is a process that could ta ke him. that is a process that could take a while. it is thought it could begin next week but we do not know how long it will take. but that is the dramatic news from here in zimbabwe, robert mugabe sacked as leader of the ruling party, zanu—pf. much more from harare coming up throughout the afternoon. we will stay with this story now. zimbabwe's ruling party has sacked robert mugabe as leader. but he does still technically remain the country's president. let's get some more reaction to this. i can now speak to richard dowden, journalist and director of the royal african society. your reaction to the rather dramatic developments of the day so far? well, we knew it was coming. how it was going to happen and what the consequences are, these are the
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unknowns. he is still technically president, but the only way a president, but the only way a president can exercise that power is in the end by force, and that means the army. and the army are the ones who are trying, gently, to remove him and ask him to take the final decision on leaving, which he hasn't done yet. ijust decision on leaving, which he hasn't done yet. i just think of dollar that if shakespeare were around today he would be writing the story. it is one of the most extraordinary drummers we have had out of africa for some time. but this is the way africa is moving. —— extraordinary dramas. trying to pin the laws down, trying to abide by them, that is happening throughout the continent, there are also some debates and battles going on but in the old days, ache—mac meant generals stood up days, ache—mac meant generals stood up and said, i am now in charge and i make all the rules. —— a coup. that time is now over, they play by the constitution now, although they
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may twist and turn, they want to be seen to be constitutional. and that is really growing are no because in the next hours and days, that will be crucial in terms of what you're saying. they are very keen to this not to be a coup, and we were hearing from ben brown and one of his guests that he was officially democratically elected, therefore, if he decides not to stand down, it will be a parliamentary process that we see will be a parliamentary process that we see next, and impeachment. yes, that's right, but i don't think this will take very long. i don't think there will be long hearings, there will be a show of hands and that will be a show of hands and that will be a show of hands and that will be it, they will have ticked the boxes and he will be out. there is no question of him being able to play that card or order the army around, or order the ministers around. he is in his box now, all he has to do is make it finally, technically constitutional a piece of paper as saying he resigns. and what? i suspect emmerson mnangagwa,
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as we've heard, will probably take ovei’ as as we've heard, will probably take over as the next most powerful man, and that is were i would feel, right, now, he has got a reputation for being quite a tough guy, he has been involved in all the things that mugabe has done, he has been very close to him, and are we looking at robert mugabe part two? he was mugabe's man until two weeks ago, wasn't he? absolutely, then grace decided she wanted to be placed —— vice president and persuaded to —— persuaded her husband to push emmerson mnangagwa out, he fled and then the coup, and now he might well step in and say, i'm the new president. so, seeing the scenes of purejubilation president. so, seeing the scenes of pure jubilation and joy in president. so, seeing the scenes of purejubilation and joy in harare president. so, seeing the scenes of pure jubilation and joy in harare at the moment, news that robert mugabe
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has been dismissed, obviously, this isa has been dismissed, obviously, this is a hugely dramatic moment, but in terms of real change in zimbabwe, is that what we're looking at, given what you have said about the man who looks likely to take over?|j what you have said about the man who looks likely to take over? i do not think it will be like from knight today. clearly, there is so much... in the olden days, nobody knew what was going on, there was one radio station that told the —— that toad of the government line. now there are hundreds of sources of information. the people of zimbabwe, more than almost any other in africa, are highly politicised because of their history. sizes backed that pressure on the government will remain, they will not be able to behave like a dictatorial government, as many african leaders have done. they have managed to trample on the people. i think it will be very difficult to do now in zimbabwe. we have seen the same thing happening in south
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africa, zuma gradually looking dullard losing power, not in technical terms by not being able to push through his agenda. —— gradually losing. and i think the same thing will happen in zimbabwe. but there is that clique at the top who are very, very rich, they made a lot of money out of the congo, they have made sure they got stakes in all sorts of businesses in zimbabwe, and they are very rich and well—connected and powerful. so, that may be a sort of ruling aristocracy who may then own the country and be able, with the money, to manipulate the politics. but i suspect that most zimbabweans are pretty clear now about what they wa nt pretty clear now about what they want and what they don't want. richard, thank you for your thoughts. i think we are going back to harare now and ben brown.
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yes, let's just recap for guitar. robert mugabe, after 37 years as leader of the zanu—pf party, still technically president of zimbabwe. his wife, grace mugabe, much hated and loathed in this country, stripped of her position in the party of head of the women's league. they are both, we gather, still card—carrying members of zanu—pf but stripped of their positions. utter humiliation for both of them. and emmerson mnangagwa, who is likely to be the next leader of this country with the next de facto leader, he has been named interim leader of the party. what does all this mean? lets talk to milton nkosi. yes,
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south africans are watching very closely what is happening in harare, because there are millions of zimbabweans in south africa who fled their own country when they were looking for better economic opportunities this side of the limpopo river. and the south africans themselves are concerned because if anything, africans themselves are concerned because ifanything, —— ifanything goes wrong in zimbabwe, it directly affects them. for example, issues of jobs and so on affleck south africans directly. so they are also watching very closely. politically, they are watching because here in south africa, we have the contest for leadership within the governing party, the anc, which isjust weeks away. between jacob zuma, party, the anc, which isjust weeks away. betweenjacob zuma, who is stepping down, his former wife and
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the current deputy president. so, people are watching who is going to ta ke people are watching who is going to take over from jacob zuma as party leader, and therefore eventually as president of the republic. so people are watching with very, very close eyes events unfolding over there. milton, what are your thoughts on this momentous weekend, seen robert mugabe after almost four decades in power, while still clinging on to the presidency, but stripped of his role, humiliatingly as the leader of zanu—pf? role, humiliatingly as the leader of zanu-pf? this is indeed a historic moment, because we know that president mugabe had one thing in mind, he wanted to die in office. he had no intention of stepping down. we know that during his whole military intervention in the last
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few days, he never gave one inch in those negotiations, he still wanted to remain president until his last days. i remember very to remain president until his last days. i remembervery well during the land invasions, we went to speak to one of his oldest comrades, and we to one of his oldest comrades, and we asked him, what would he say to robert mugabe then? and james, who had known mugabe since childhood, told us he would tell him that zimbabwe is not like a sheep, whether president —— ship, whether president has to be last tojump. milton, thank you very much indeed. well, yesterday was a historic day here in zimbabwe, tens of thousands of people took to the streets to demand that mugabe goes, really momentous scenes, euphoric scenes, people dancing in the streets. today another day of history in zimbabwe,
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robert mugabe losing the leadership of his own zanu—pf party after 37 yea rs. of his own zanu—pf party after 37 years. that's it from harare, back to you in the studio, sophie. thank you, ben brown in harare. president robert mugabe has been in power for nearly four decades. the 93—year—old has ruled zimbabwe since the country gained independence in 1980. but its economy has descended into chaos, with thousands of people reduced to poverty. 0ur correspondent milton nkosi looks back on his reign. i. i, robert gabriel... robert gabriel mugabe was a revolution leader who fought in the liberation struggle against white minority rule.|j fought in the liberation struggle against white minority rule. i bear true allegiance to zimbabwe...m tight grip on power and in the title of being the oldest head of state in the world. the 93—year—old leader has been in power since zimbabwe's independence in 1980. he has
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continued his life as an international statesman, despite a diminishing reputation, as zimbabwe's diminishing reputation, as zimba bwe's economy crumbled diminishing reputation, as zimbabwe's economy crumbled amid corruption and violence. mugabe's reister power began in 1979 when the lancaster house agreement ended white minority rule. at first, he protected minority rights. but after 2000, he changed tack, he led a reform programme including redistributing land from white farmers, without compensation. the country's economy collapsed with runaway inflation figures. the central bank printed money on a massive scale. supermarket shelves we re massive scale. supermarket shelves were empty. a loaf of bread would cost you trillions to buy. mugabe's misrule prompted widespread protests. that was the birth of the
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opposition mdc, led by morgan tsvangirai, who related —— later entered into a power—sharing agreement with mugabe following a disputed election. economic was unbearable. something it is still recovering to struggle —— struggling to recover from. recovering to struggle —— struggling to recoverfrom. millions of zimbabweans to recoverfrom. millions of zi m ba bwea ns cross into to recoverfrom. millions of zimbabweans cross into south africa looking for a better life. trying to pave the way for his wife, grace mugabe, to be his successor, the army found that unacceptable, saying that this is not a dynasty. milton nkosi, bbc news, south africa. the latest figures from harare, people are dancing in the streets following that sacking by zanu—pf of president mugabe. he remains technically president of zimbabwe, but as you can see, this is the reaction to his removalfrom the leadership of zanu—pf. we will have
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much more reaction from harare and africa throughout the course of the day. now let's pause were and find out what the weather is doing. though avery has the broadcast. hello once again. there was a cold, bright start to be had across many parts of the british isles. a touch of frost, a little bit of mist and fog first thing in one or two spots as well. for that, we had to thank an area of high pressure just drifting its way across the british isles. it cleared the skies overnight, hence those temperatures falling away. it is going to give quite a bit of dry weather, but as you see, it's not the only weather story in town, because we have a weather front close by to the western parts of the british isles, and increasingly through the afternoon, we will find the cloud filling in across parts of the south west, the channel islands, into the isles of scilly. the odd bit and piece of rain, not amounting to very much at all. when we come up into the western side of wales, here too, increasing amounts of cloud. even further east, many of you will lose the clear blue skies with which you started the day.
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and certainly, that cloud fills in through the isle of man up into northern ireland, across the western side of scotland. here, a greater chance of seeing some rain, but at this stage, really not amounting to very much. further to the north and east, still the little supply of showers that you've become very familiar with in the past few days. 0vernight, what we are going to do is push mild air from the atlantic into the cold air reservoir that's sat across the british isles for a little while, and that will generate snow down to about 200 metres or so north of the central belt in scotland. that snow level gradually rising as those mild airs gradually percolate their way in from the atlantic. further south, this is where the really mild air piles in from the atlantic — 10,11,12 as the night—time minimum. we wake up to a really leaden sort of day. watch out for the hill fog across the high ground in the north of the british isles. the heavy rain moves away during the morning and the first part of the afternoon, leaving behind a really dank, drizzly sort of afternoon. but at least it's on the mild side across much of the british isles, save for scotland — one of those days where the cold reallyjust sort of gets into you. and that's because that mild air doesn't quite win out
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across all parts of the british isles. it is still that little bit cooler away towards the north. as i take you out of monday on into the middle part of the week, notjust tuesday, we keep this run of mild south—westerly airs up and across, by this stage, all parts of the british isles, so those temperatures really beginning to pick up, for the time of year. the wind quite noticeable, the rain really quite intense. so, through to the midweek period, wet and windy, certainly, mild until later in the week. take care, bye—bye. good afternoon. president mugabe has been dismissed at the leader of zimbabwe's ruling zanu—pf party — a day after tens of thousands marched on the streets calling for him to go. he's been replaced by the former vice president, emmerson mnangagwa, who's sacking by mr mugabe sparked this political crisis. robert mugabe remains, for now, president of the country, but this latest move means his control has been further weakened. from harare, our correspondent shingai nyoka reports.
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