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tv   Dateline London  BBC News  April 29, 2018 2:30am-3:01am BST

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us president donald trump has spoken to the south korean president moonjae—in, following mr moon's summit with the north korean leader, kim jong—un. president trump says this meeting could happen in the next 3—4 weeks. us media say singapore and mongolia are being considered as possible venues. more than 30,000 people in the spanish city of pamplona have protested against the conviction of a group of men for sexual abuse rather than rape. it's been the third day of demonstrations. protesters say the verdict is too lenient, and sets a dangerous precedent for gang—rape cases. there have been more mass demonstrations against corruption in armenia, with the protest leader rallying support for his bid to become prime minister. the parliament is due to choose a new prime minister on tuesday. the ruling party says it won't nominate a candidate in an effort to ease tensions. now on bbc news, dateline london. fellow, and a very warm welcome to
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dateline london. i'm jane fellow, and a very warm welcome to dateline london. i'mjane hill. this week we are discussing a momentous day for north korea and south korea. president trump's meetings with a number of european leading is —— leaders this week. and the 73 countries meeting in brussels still searching for a solution to this area crisis. my guestsjoining me this week, the conservative commentator alex dean. the french brighter angus padraig from the french magazine merrion. maria ernest from the nation. and the american writer michael goldfarb, host of the fi vh broadcast. a warm welcome to everybody. thank you the
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joining us. the image of the week is surely the lingering handshake on friday between north korea's leader kim jong—un friday between north korea's leader kimjong—un and friday between north korea's leader kim jong—un and the president of south korea, moon jae—in. kim jong—un and the president of south korea, moonjae—in. across, of course, heavily fortified border in the world. there was talk of peace, of working together to rid the peninsula of nuclear weapons. albeit without any specifics. how optimistic are you feeling about that, maria? well, it was an amazing moment, wasn't it, to see these two men holding hands and skipping over the concrete barrier like to boys in kindergarten. —— two boys. 0nly months after kimi is shooting missiles towards japan and trump is calling him little rocket man and boasting about his button. i think optimism has momentum and i think thatis optimism has momentum and i think that is important. 0bviously optimism has momentum and i think that is important. obviously there is so much we don't know. we know we have been somewhere a little bit
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like this before not quite the same. i don't think kim has spoken before, oi’ i don't think kim has spoken before, or the north korea is have spoken before, about complete denuclearisation. so this could be a moment. i think moonjae—in has set trump up very well. i think it has set him up to need to succeed because i think if this meeting that we hope is coming up between trump and kim, which is really the meeting between the wild card and the enigma, so we have no idea what is going to happen there, i think there is now an expectation that something has to come out of it. i think that in itself is important. so i think we should be optimistic, in fact. alex, you were nodding to our lot of that. i think that is absolutely right. i have no doubt that the critics who are saying one year ago that this was a sort of thing president trump would make a hash of will be manning the barricades to award him a nobel prize as a result of his efforts here. i thought the president was rightly generous in his acknowledgement of the chinese in getting the north koreans to the
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table like this, it is behind the smiles, kim has systematically, he enters predecessors, they have systematically start their population, i've used them, preston, denied the freedom of speech and so forth. —— abused them, but pressed them. they are running out of food and running out of friends. that is pa rt of and running out of friends. that is part of what propels them to the negotiating table. but as brutal realities might be what is pushing us realities might be what is pushing us towards a good resolution. as maria points out, we have been here before, not that recently, but we have seen images like this and promises like this. previous negotiations, and mean, there was jimmy carter, madeline albright. each time north korea said, yes, we will make an effort. and they were biding theirtime. but will make an effort. and they were biding their time. but also, previous negotiations were quite open—ended. no specific goals each time. think this to have timing, and moonjae—in, it is really the south korean leader who is really at the ce ntre
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korean leader who is really at the centre of world diplomacy. step—by—step, action by action, his strategy i think is a good one. that is to say that each time, north korea will make an effort, or each time it moves, they should be rewarded with some kind of economic and of that. and i think there is a convergence of interest here, not only on president trump's side, because in effect that would be his macho and erratic x actually proving strangely efficient. —— erratic tactics. 0n the other hand, kim has achieved his nuclear plans, he is a nuclear power, he is now considered as an equal at the negotiating table with trump, something that is predecessors, his family, his ancestors have not actually manage to achieve. and the priority for him is the economy, because as you say, his people are starving. so there
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might be a moment that will deliver. lam might be a moment that will deliver. i am hopeful. might be a moment that will deliver. lam hopeful. in might be a moment that will deliver. i am hopeful. in such a mad world that we are living in, it is nice to see them. is trump correct to claim a little of the credit here. well, the chronology would say yes. the chronology would say, look, he came into office swaggering and getting, certainly the washington establishment, right and left, convinced that there was a possibility of a nuclear throwdown. anybody who was an ocean away and keeping calm would say, wait a second, beijing is only 500 miles from pyongyang, so maybe we won't be having a nuclear throwdown, chill out american think tanks. but the chronology begins with him. the critical moment was actually the 0lympics, critical moment was actually the olympics, and maria, being of greek heritage, will know that the 0lympics, initially, they were set up 0lympics, initially, they were set up to stop war. soft power. and what happened? president moon invited to
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north korea to send a delegation, they marched into the arena together and there was a of argument about that in washington. they shouldn't do that, whose side are south korea on, et cetera. kim sent his sister, she turns out to be a perfect media type. for our media age, where diplomacy is conducted through the airwaves, here is this a very attractive... i am airwaves, here is this a very attractive... iam not airwaves, here is this a very attractive... i am not saying that ina attractive... i am not saying that in a sexist sense, a very photogenic woman, she comes in, and we think, maybe they are not the hermit kingdom after all. i would like to throw in wanting to remind people. we tend to still look at north korea as the hermit kingdom, an inscrutable thing. kim jong—un was educated in switzerland. he has a western education inside that facade that he presents of being kind of am pretty ball, and i do think that when the time comes, if it happens,
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and there are still a lot of weeks before this summit with donald trump happens, you know, he went to a private school and was privately educated, kim jong—un was privately educated, kim jong—un was privately educated in a similarfashion. they may be able to talk to each other morsel of them we think. there is a wider point that comes out of these talks, in the aftermath of the execution of saddam hussein and the murder of kadhafi on his streets, the people around dictate is like this advise them, get nuclear weapons. the way to preserve your regime, to stay safe, do not have what happened to saddam hussein or colonel gaddafi happened you, is to ensure that they can not issue to the brink. it was one of the great challenges for the 21st century political environment. how do we get past that? maybe, weirdly, through president trump, this is it. well, the two meeting the next few weeks, roughly, so we will return that, of course. that is something we will definitely be discussing around this table in the coming weeks. meanwhile, two european leaders visited washington, dc this week. france's president emmanuel macron
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spent three days with donald trump. germany's chancellor angela merkel, barely three hours. they were both wanting to head off us tariffs on eu exports of steel and aluminium, and to persuade the us president to stick with the orion nuclear deal. 0nly stick with the orion nuclear deal. only one of them, perhaps, managed that visible rapport. you'll remember the endless smiles and backslapping and the us resident calling his french counterpart perfect. except for the dandruff. except for the dandruff! damning with faint praise, perhaps. president macron made quite an impression. yes, an impression on every one of us. it is very strange. they were curious images, won't they? including for us in france. do you remember, when he invited trump to the bastille day parade, a p pa re ntly to the bastille day parade, apparently it struck a chord, he wa nted apparently it struck a chord, he wanted his own parade in washington.
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but in the years of dictatorship, if you show off to many tanks... look, there is a strange french appear. there is a sort of genuine rapport between those two men. 0n the other hand, we have seen president macron in front of congress, speaking his mind. perhaps trump liked the guy and likes a straightforwardness. i think both of our worldviews are startlingly opposite. think both of our worldviews are startlingly oppositelj think both of our worldviews are startlingly opposite. i mean, macron was quite forthright in his speech. there was plenty of gladhanding. he talked about the dangers of excellence of america turning inwards. i think he has a purpose. i think if he can keep trump from his worst instincts, it is a fight worth fighting. and he sees, with macron, he sees eye to eye with him on this. he was going to washington also to try to convince trump not to tear it
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apart. he came out of it saying, i don't think i've convinced the american president, but now, i think i've actually managed to see the implications if america was pulling out of it. you would see that as progress. we can talk more about iran ina progress. we can talk more about iran in a moment. michael? it is funny, we talk about the north korea pictures. 0n funny, we talk about the north korea pictures. on thursday we would have been talking about the dandruff picture. things change, things move quickly. the meeting is as much about economic issues as anything. i don't think anyone is under any illusions as to whose voice donald trump listens to on iran. there are domestic political things happening, whispering in his ear, and i think just an emotional inclination to distrust the iranian regime. what europe is concerned about, of
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course, the sanctions against russia and the tariffs, and, you know, just this morning, frees up or, one of the things critical, particularly to germany, is the price of aluminium or of alumina lumen as we say in america. —— aluminium. russia provides a tremendous amount of the aluminium that goes into building airbus planes. and this morning, the oligarch who is under sanction by the united states, and which made importing and purchasing this stuff more difficult for europe, has stepped aside. he is leaving his company. these sorts of things, when you read them one or two days after macron and merkel have been visiting trump, you begin to think, maybe there is something going on there, bearing fruit from these conversations, which on the headline issue, don't bear fruit at all. and your reading of it, maria and alex? well, being close to the american
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president is never a bad thing and rather than president macron taking a march on everyone else, we have seen a march on everyone else, we have seen others in the international community try to make a virtue of being hostile to the president he says, well, iwill being hostile to the president he says, well, i will be best friend. that seems to have worked. the biggest question to us in europe is where macron goes with his political agenda. he has a political party basically built in an environment that depends on the separation of powers, he has a party that has builtjust to powers, he has a party that has built just to support powers, he has a party that has builtjust to support him. that is what en marche is. well, here come the eu elections, where there will not be any british candidates, if things are as planned. but en marche will be standing. we don't know with any competence switched on three mac they would stand in in the european parliament. latest macro stand? reforming right, centre—left? in that sense he is like trump, a political outsider, not conventional, who circumvents mainstream expectations to seize power in a charismatic, self oriented presidency. next year will bea oriented presidency. next year will be a very informative thing about matt goes and whether they change
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french politics beyond just as presidency. is —— about where en marche goes. maybe that is why they got on, more similarities than we think. i thought that speech was amazing, it gave republicans and democrats the chance to cheer, you know, there is no planet b, and is demand, his claim that at some point america will be joined the paris accords. he seems to be placed himself as a european statesman, perhaps taking over from angela merkel, who is waning. and that was what really struck me about these two meetings, back—to—back. it is emmanuel macron's, you know, i back—to—back. it is emmanuel macron's, you know, lam a back—to—back. it is emmanuel macron's, you know, i am a visionary for europe. he is very unspecific about his vision. we have to get used to it, probably. it is quite strange. but he is a sort of new
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kind of centrist. yes, a newcomer. and we still don't fully know, is he fully formed? we do not know what he fully formed? we do not know what he fully stencil? you are a nascent political figure, fully stencil? you are a nascent politicalfigure, and fully stencil? you are a nascent political figure, and what you stand for? that is why i am perplexed. but he is unlike any one we have had before. and he is a cultured man, just, you know, remember his speech to congress, from hemingway to james baldwin, and jefferson and result, we like that. and ever since mitterand we have not had an intellectual. he is not a public intellectual, but he is and intellectual, but he is and intellectual man. and he —— and he did not manage to get far on the tariffs, which was the purpose of his visit. i think we
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will know more in the next few hours and days what actually happened, but imean, germany and days what actually happened, but i mean, germany is very much uncertain. much more than france is. i think she missed a trick. i think there was an opportunity to get closer to donald trump and say, let's think about the future. she has three terms behind her. nothing happens. she is just straightforward, straight down the line, she can't do it. that is not her. and one would hope there is place for all styles and politics. but there is a topic for another time. we touched on the iran deal, one of the things that emmanuel macron and angela merkel were addressing with donald trump, or attending to address with donald trump in washington. and also talked with some 70 odd delegations have been going on in brussels to try to find a way to end the war in syria. those talks broke up on thursday without any apparent progress, and
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on the ground big conflict continues. we have reflected that so many times. meanwhile, the rennie and revolutionary guard has been setting up bases and arms dumps throughout the country and close to the border with israel. —— iran. we have touched a serious so much. at this point, we would all be forgiving for knowing that the talks broke up on thursday. how much do you know about the current state of affairs? at one level, it is all the same. the new wrinkle is that israel, in the last couple of weeks, has attacked some are ready and bases. there is some speculation about, oh, well, this will lead to direct conflict between israel and iran, and in fact, the secretary of defence said that today. i am slyly sceptical about shooting war between
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israel and israel coming out of it. -- iran israel and israel coming out of it. —— iran and israel. it is hard to get reporting done. you go in under strict restrictions, and the western reporters come out, it is very hard. iran controls the shi'ite militias of hezbollah. it has a revolutionary guard there that is the force. the real force in syria is russia. russia controls whether a site stays in poweror russia controls whether a site stays in power or not. interestingly, we can talk about the iran nuclear deal, and we'll all talking about the european governments as co— signatories feel about it. —— assad. but russia is a cosignatory of that deal. russia is the main player when it comes to dealing with iran, i think. and i also know that israel —
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the press is very open reporting is. there is daily contact between the israeli government and the russian government about operational issues. and i think that is really how you have two lookout what israel's role is in this. and also where the next phases are, which sadly do not bring any succour at all to the syrian population, whether they have been — whether they have been displaced and are under attack, or whether they are under attack, or whether they are living in damascus and cleaving to the regime to keep them safe and to the regime to keep them safe and to hope that the regime stays in power. and i think this is the overall state of play. and so when i read that 70 nations have met in brussels — to do what? to discuss the reconstruction of a war that i still feel has a lot of fuel and hatred yet to work out. it is more thana
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hatred yet to work out. it is more than a civil war and it is a unique conflict. of all the complex i have cove red conflict. of all the complex i have covered in my lifetime, there is nothing quite like this with the same dynamics. when there were those missile strikes on syria after the chemical attack in eastern ghouta. a syrian man set on the bbc world service that the west is not care that we die, only how we die. and that we die, only how we die. and that quote has just stayed with me. imean, that quote has just stayed with me. i mean, half of syria's prewar population of 22 million people are now dead, displaced, or refugees. the country is absolutely destroyed. you know, as you say, michael, the question of how this war, if this war will end, and who will pay for the reconstruction of this com pletely the reconstruction of this completely devastated country, you know... unless russia and iran are prepared to come to the negotiating table, unless assad is willing also do respect something other than the
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gun asa do respect something other than the gun as a means of settling anything, it is just gun as a means of settling anything, it isjust more gun as a means of settling anything, it is just more suffering and disaster and grief ahead. and we a lwa ys disaster and grief ahead. and we always tend to look at the latest political threat to emerge, but what is happening there every day is so difficult to talk about as it is so difficult. and it you say half the population is left. we were four assad, we were against assad, and now we are really against him, and now we are really against him, and now we are really against him, and now we look at some of the people opposing him, and we don't like a lot of them, either, especially on the isis side of things. we look at his allies, and we don't like them, either. we do not like what vladimir putin is doing. vladimir putin has always viewed the world in geopolitical terms. he does not care what we think. he cares about his political audience and what people think of him. in that way, he is doing well. we need to think about
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what we can do for a vladimir putin lad resolution for this. it —1 of the reasons i think we hesitate so much about this in the west is not the moral qualms. what we worry about is the iraq present and not leaving it like that. you can discuss what happened after 9/11 and so discuss what happened after 9/11 and so forth, but really we went and suddenly conflict with saddam hussein. yet there has been a civil war for years, hussein. yet there has been a civil warforyears, and we hussein. yet there has been a civil war for years, and we need to decide if we intervene or not. and there is the libya episode as well. i don't think the west will intervene in the way it should intervene or should have intervened years ago. so now syria is becoming a bit of ii on. and that is why israel and iran wa nts to and that is why israel and iran wants to use syria as a way to pressure israel directly. israel does not want to let it become a new
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lebanon for them with the hasluck. we are talking— at it with figures of 80,000 iranians forces scattered around, you know? and israel is concerned. so are we. that is one valid point, but to what extent are people watching and waiting for maybe 12, the may deadline, the trump deadline. all five are sat around before we came in and discussing the fact that this week there were talks, they were in brussels, they have been going on for some time, but they broke up on thursday. they broke up on thursday, was there any indication coming out of brussels? that sense was that we are not itching a communique,
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because this is looming. and may 12, let's assume that donald trump says, well, and a producer by the deal, now. . for whatever well, and a producer by the deal, now. . forwhatever reason well, and a producer by the deal, now. . for whatever reason that he offers. and you know, there is still a whole range of other issues before you get into some kind of shooting war between this group or that group. 0rion is involved militarily ina lot group. 0rion is involved militarily in a lot of spaces just next door to america. —— iran. there are 200,000 iraqi soldiers in iran. to run is a major player in iraq. don't forget that when the kurdish crisis happen in autumn, it was the commander of the revolutionary guard is who went into kurdistan and got everyone, and said this is the new dispensation. the central government's writ did not carry into kurdistan. iraq is
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about to have important elections. if we look at the may 12 as a date that will trigger something, because we are displayed donald trump is making a decision, i think that is also wrong. i think we'll is a need to remember very clearly what the map of the middle east looks like. but, you know, israel has a border with syria. it doesn't have a border with syria. it doesn't have a border with iran. it does not have a border thatis with iran. it does not have a border that is separated speakership is commission bomb in a limited fashion, but that is not fighting a war. that is not invasion. that is not really caring countries apart, as has happened in syria. it is not happen to stop the anxiety. these conversations — unless iran rival to sendin conversations — unless iran rival to send ina conversations — unless iran rival to send in a couple of divisions across iraq into syria... 80,000 is not a small, not a small... taken
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together, tens of thousands of troops in market is not a small manoeuvre. these conversations we are having our related. people don't wa nt are having our related. people don't want the iran in regime to become the next north korea with the power to stop... donald trump hang out with donald trump tweeted that iran would not be a nuclear power in two yea rs, would not be a nuclear power in two years, five years, never. these are tough lines being taken, but they are informed by the desire not to get in that situation with north korea where it is high stakes with an unpredictable regime. and that is an unpredictable regime. and that is a point on which to end it, only for this week, because all that matters this week, because all that matters this week, because all that matters this week that we were discussing in weeks to come. that we can be sure, i think. thank you for being with dateline, again. see you next time. thank you for watching. hello there.
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skies have been clearing and weather watchers have been taking pictures of the moon. their spells out and about at the moment. the clearest of the skies in northern areas, but a cold start through the day. again, patches of frost around in raw parts of scotland. further south, a lot of cloud towards the midlands, east anglia, and south—east england. temperatures will be a little higher air. this cloud could be thick enough on its own volition for a few spots of rain from time to time on sunday. nothing particularly heavy until later in the day when a heavier band of rain will push into south—east england with strengthening north to
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north—easterly winds. the north—west bowser nicola zagame, but slow—moving showers with us back in northern ireland. looking at the weather picture through sunday evening in overnight, this band of rain gets heavier and more a sense of anglia and south—east england. that is a sign of things to come. this area of low pressure is going to be spinning its way in from france, the rain getting heavier, and continue to put a little further northwards and westwards. so on monday we are looking at some heavy rain. it is going to be a windy day with gales around the east coast, and it is going to feel cold, more like a february day for some of us than a day we would normally expect. so he was the band of rain. 0ver than a day we would normally expect. so he was the band of rain. over the high ground, we could see some sleet or flex of snow. mostly over 200 metres of elevation or so. the mist majority is cold rain that is go to be falling with strong winds. and it will be a cold day, which averages struggling. high as in birmingham just five celsius. further north and west, 0k, we will see sunshine,
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which averages into double figures. not bad temperatures for scotland and northern ireland. this weather system will continue to bring wet weather to these goes on tuesday. another area of pressure will bring some rain into ireland. between these two systems will be dry and bright weather with sunny spells. the bridge is recovering in two double figures. still pretty chilly for the time of year. however, once we have a read of cloud and rain, and the cool weather, things do improve. as we head into next week and, temperatures will push up into the high teens. welcome to bbc news, broadcasting to viewers
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in north america and around the globe. our top stories: president trump confirms negotiations to set up his meeting with kim jong—un are under way, and the talks could take place in may. and we are doing things that are good. i think we will have a meeting over the next three or four weeks. it could be a important meeting. the denuclearisation of the korean peninsula, of north korea, to denuke. denuke! president trump says a meeting with north korea could happen over the next three to four weeks.

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