tv Victoria Derbyshire BBC News May 10, 2018 9:00am-11:01am BST
hello, it's thursday, it's nine o'clock, i'm victoria derbyshire, welcome to the programme three americans held prisoner by north korea arrive back on home soil. president trump says a date has been set for his historic meeting with north korea's leader, kim jong—un. these are great people, they have been through a lot, but it is a great honour. but the true honour is going to be if we have a victory in getting rid of nuclear weapons. we'll be live in seoul in south korea to talk about how significant these latest developments are for the region. adoptive parents tell this programme they're desperate for more support for the children whose attachment issues mean they can't cope with everyday life. we end up sitting in the middle of the school driveway, rocking my 4 —year—old, singing a lullaby, all the other parents wondering what on earth i am doing. she is not having a temper tantrum, she is scared
stiff. you can watch that full film at around 9:15. and do let us know if your children have similar problems. and barbara windsor‘s family say she has alzheimer's. her husband says he's gone public now because he lives in fear of going out since her symptoms have worsened. and we'll talk live tojudy murray. the former international tennis player, coach and mum to two grand slam winners is here to talk about her new book and hello, welcome to the programme, we're live until 11 this morning. really interested to hear from you if you are an adoptive parent whose children have attachment issues, how does it affect them, how does it affect you, is there any support to help you? we will be talking about this quite a bit this morning, we will feed your own experiences into
oui’ conversation. will feed your own experiences into our conversation. you can send an e—mail, you can message us, and there is whatsapp and twitter as well. our top story today: president trump has personally welcomed home three american detainees released by north korea. mr trump and his wife melania greeted kim hak—song, tony kim and kim dong—chul onboard a plane which landed at an force air base in washington, before escorting them onto american soil. the men all appeared to be fit and well. speaking on the tarmac, the us president said the release of the detainees was a welcome development, ahead of a planned summit between himself and the north korean leader, kim jong—un. my my proudest achievement will be, this is a part of it, but it will be when we denuclearise that entire peninsula. this is what people have been waiting forfor a peninsula. this is what people have been waiting for for a long time. nobody thought we could be on this track in terms of speed, so i am very honoured to have helped the
three folks, they are great people. i got to speak to them on the plane, they are great people, they have been through a lot. but it is a great honour. but the true honour is going to be we have a victory in getting rid of nuclear weapons. our correspondent stephen mcdonell is in seoulfor us. stephen, this is all part of the diplomatic choreography before the big summit between president trump and president kim can happen — does anyone really think that president kim will get rid of the nuclear weapons that north korea has? well, i think especially here in south korea, they are feeling a bit better about the prospect now than they we re about the prospect now than they were this time yesterday. the fear had been that because the us had pulled out of the iran nuclear deal, that pyongyang would look to washington and say, why would we trust you? you know, why would we go
ahead with giving up our nuclear weapons, with whatever you offer because you mightjust pull out of that deal in the same way that you have with the iran deal? now, we see this grand gesture, as the north koreans would see it, handing over these korean—american detainees back to the americans, letting them return home, and the praise is going both ways — from pyongyang and washington, the north korean press covering the visit by the us secretary of state to turn over these detainees has been the front page of the newspapers there. and we heard donald trump speaking, well, they ain't that the north korean leader have been nice for releasing these men, and him also saying, as we just heard, that the true honour would be if he can convince north korea to give up its nuclear weapons. i think the problem is that it is still such a massive task.
what can the americans after the north koreans to get them to give up nuclear weapons? but at least it seems this summit is going to take place. donald trump says that the place. donald trump says that the place has been decided, it won't be the demilitarised zone, so the money is on it being in singapore, and at least, as i say, in south korea, people are feeling much better about the fact that the summit will now go ahead. jeers, thank you very much. —— cheers. annita mcveigh is in the bbc newsroom with a summary of the rest of the day's news. israel has carried out a wave of air strikes on syria, aimed at what it says were iranian targets. the israeli military was responding to around 20 rockets fired on its positions in the golan heights, which it says were launched by iran's revolutionary guards from inside syria. royal bank of scotland has agreed a 5.6 billion fine with us regulators to end a long—running investigation into its actions in the lead—up to the financial crisis. the bank, which is partly
owned by the taxpayer, had been accused of selling risky financial products. the deal removes a stumbling block to government plans to sell its 71% stake. the telecoms giant bt is to cut 13,000 jobs over three years as it seeks to slim down its management and back—office roles. bt said that the job cuts and other measures would help it achieve a cost reduction of £1.5 billion. it added that it would also be hiring about 6,000 employees "to support network deployment and service". bt also intends to move its headquarters out of central london to a site yet to be announced. let's speak now to our business correspondent theo leggett. theo, what does all of this mean for bt and forjobs with the company?m means that bt knows it has to change, it has to launch a major restructuring programme. why? because it earnings have been pretty
sluggish over the last few years, its share price has fallen a great deal, it needs to do something. it needs to cut costs but also prepare for the future. bt is no longer acting ina for the future. bt is no longer acting in a world where it is the major provider of a simple telephone network. these days, we have broadband networks, 5g networks, and there is a lot of competition, so bt needs to respond. it is cutting costs by getting rid ofjupiter asian between its various divisions, cutting 13,000 jobs out of 100,000. —— duplication. it is also recruiting 6000 engineering staff to help build the networks and see off the competition. consumers are being warned that food could become much more expensive in the uk after brexit if a trade agreement isn't reached. that's according to a new house of lords report. the committee says that the tariff on imports is likely to rise, and that it had "no doubts" that this would lead to price increases at the checkout. 0ur environment correspondent claire marshall has the details. half the food we eat is imported.
30% of this comes from the european union. the uk is now negotiating its own trade deals, but it is not clear what the terms will be. according to the lords report, if there is no agreement, there could be severe price rises for shoppers. if we apply the equivalent of european tariffs, then, on average, that is some 22% on food prices that are imported. not all of that would go on food prices itself, but it obviously would have a major effect on the price of food. the report also warns that if there is no trade agreement, we could see more things like this. it advises there is not the staff, it systems or infrastructure. britain's ports could be choked. we went to a truck stop near chippenham in wiltshire. at the moment, a two—minute delay at customs leads to a 17—mile tailback. it seems more checks will be needed, does that worry the truckers? we need a bit of common sense in the haulage industry.
i'm hoping now with brexit, we might get some common sense around the rules that are already in place. are you worried about changing rules than? no, not at all. it won't make any difference whatsoever. we'll still be here. it's a little bit on the line. as a driver, i don't think you will see much change, really. the department for the environment says it is considering how it will best manage border checks and controls without impacting the smooth flow of trade. it will respond to the report in due course. claire marshall, bbc news. the actress dame barbara windsor has been diagnosed with alzheimer's. her husband, scott mitchell, told the sun newspaper that his 80—year—old wife was given the news in april 2014 but that her condition had worsened in recent weeks. jon donnison reports. dame barbara windsor has been entertainment royalty for more than 60 years. but for the last four, she has been living with alzheimer's. it was her husband, scott mitchell, seen here as the actress picked up an mbe in 2000, that broke the news.
he told the sun she was first diagnosed with the degenerative brain disease in 2014 but that the family were going public now because they knew there were rumours circulating about her health. oh, my dear friend. you won't ever leave me, will you? no, sweetheart. not for one single second. barbara windsor‘s final appearance in eastenders was in 2016. her husband says she left the show partly because it was becoming increasingly difficult to learn her lines. he hopes that by speaking out now, it will help other families having to live with what he called a cruel disease. john donnison, bbc news. later this hour, victoria woo be talking more about the news of the
diagnosis. —— we'll be talking. the transport secretary, chris grayling, is unveiling plans to introduce digital technology across the rail network. the aim is to modernise the signalling system that would allow more trains to run every hour and would improve reliability. network rail has pledged that 70% ofjourneys will benefit from digital signalling within 15 years. labour says there'll be a "limited impact" without more lines being electrified. the us geological survey has reported a large explosion on hawaii's kilauea volcano, which began erupting several days ago. the development could mean large amounts of ash and rocks are soon thrown from the crater. lebo diseko has the latest. hot, angry—looking lava, boiling over through what looked like open gashes in the ground. the liquid rock and gas from hawaii's kilauea volcano wreaking destruction as it flows. it's engulfed buildings and destroyed anything else in its path. thousands of people have been forced to leave their homes,
and it is not clear when they'll be able to go back. the lava flows that have destroyed the homes are down on the flank of the volcano. and as for those folks, i think it is going to take a while before the activity stops, which it happened, by the way, it's still going on this afternoon. but once it to stop, it'll take a while before the authorities decide it is safe for them to come back. kilauea is one of the most active volcanoes in the world and is said to be in a constant state of eruption. but it is the scale of the explosive activity since last week that has devastated so many. the cracks in the ground, known as fissures, and toxic gases in the air are just some of the other risks that people now had to face. hawaii's governor wants president trump to declare the area a disaster zone. and there are warnings that wednesday's large explosion may mark the start of more violent eruptions on their way
that could spray rocks for miles and cover nearby towns in ash and dust for weeks to come. he may be 92, but mahathir mohammad is a man in a hurry. malaysia's former prime minister has made an extraordinary political comeback and says he should be sworn in as prime minister by the end of the day. as leader of the opposition, he has spearheaded an election victory, which will trigger the first transfer of power in malaysia since independence 61 years ago. his defeated opponent, najib razak, said no party had an overall majority and he would leave it to the king to choose the premier. malaysia's king is expected to grant mrmahathir an audience later this morning. at least 21 people have been killed after a dam burst in kenya. the breach happened in the town of solai, northwest of the capital, nairobi. the head of the kenyan red cross has told the bbc that the remote location is hampering rescue efforts.
so far, 41 people have been rescued. hundreds have been left homeless. two months of heavy rain has caused widespread destruction in the region. his track perfect was one of the smash hits of last year, and now it seems that ed sheeran‘s 2017 is still getting better, as he made an estimated £28 million. #so # so beautiful, i don't deserve this... # the new sunday times rich list values sheeran‘s fortune at £80 million. that's still 60 million short of adele's wealth, but they both lag way behind britain's richest musician, the former beatle sir paul mccartney, who with his wife, nancy shevell, is worth an estimated 820 million. that's a summary of the latest bbc news, more at 9:30am. thank you very much. in a few minutes, we will show you our film
looking at attachment issues being experienced by children, particularly children who have been adopted, and we have had this e—mail from one viewer who says, we adopted two sibling children 13 years ago, three and four. we had attachment issues, and we only received basic and amateurish help from postadoption services, and when the eldest child started secondary school, major problems began, self—harm, underage sex, dabbling with cannabis. they watch our film ina with cannabis. they watch our film in a couple of minutes' time, if you have relevant experience, do get in touch. let's get some sport with katherine. and what an achievement for huddersfield. how have they managed to stay up? a defensive masterclass. the running to the end of the season that was supposed to be their undoing, playing the champions manchester city and chelsea in the space of a week, they took a point from them
both and they are now safe in the premier league for the next season, let us look at the moment of the match for huddersfield, this save with his fingertips by the goalkeeperjonas lossl, pushing chelsea's best effort wide. david wagner getting the bumps. he said staying up is an even bigger achievement than winning promotion to the premier league last season. the players have done it, they always believed that in football sometimes the impossible as possible and the guys have done it and it makes me even more proud that they have done it, they didn't rely on anybody, they have done it on their owi'i anybody, they have done it on their own in this difficult occasions where we were on sunday and today and this is just where we were on sunday and today and this isjust incredible. favourites to go down again but it means all three teams promoted to the premier league last season remain in the premier league next season, pretty good. how did they
celebrate? we saw some stuff on the pitch. very strange. i do not know what was behind that, train celebration. who knows what will happen when they got back to huddersfield, but we know they cancelled their flight back from london because the players wanted to spend three hours 45 minutes on a coach journey and david wagner said they would be allowed at least one beer, so the celebrations started early. if they only had one, i will eat my hat! manchester city, already champions, of course, broke another record last night, but that wasn't all that was going on at the etihad, was it? a big night. man city already presented with the trophy for winning the premier league, but more records in what has been a remarkable season. last night they set a new premier league record for points over the season, 97 points, pep guardiola says they want to push it to 100 by the time the season closes, they broke the record for the most wins in a premier league
season the most wins in a premier league season as well, 31 out of 37. they have been untouchable. a big part of the evening as well last night, city beat brighton 3—1, yaya toure, the midfield colossus who was playing one of his last match as the man city, his last at the etihad stadium, lots of celebrations of him, he is subject of one of city's most famous chants. he has won the premier league title three times. he turns 35 on sunday so he is moving on from man city. what next for him? he said he wants to stay in the premier league. there is apparently interest from china and from america. he could go and play in new york. city have a link with the team in new york. yaya toure himself saying he would prefer to stay in england, so it is a case now of end of the season transfer window
opening and seeing what happens next. thank you very much. hello and welcome to the programme. parents of adopted children have told this programme they desperately need more support in helping their children deal with attachment issues. problems develop when children are neglected or abused by their main carer, often causing them to behave violently and struggle to cope with everyday life. the uk's biggest adoption charity is warning that almost a third of adoptions are at risk of falling apart and this programme has been told that a failure by social services, schools and mental health services to help parents deal with attachment issues is a majorfactor. chris hemmings has this exclusive report. there's currently more than 70,000 children in care in the uk, and the uk's largest adoption charity, adoption uk, estimates about three quarters of those have suffered abuse or neglect. from the age of, like, i don't know,
two, i got to sleep outside. my birth mum didn't like me at all. and she used to hit me. these children are more likely to develop behavioural problems, fall behind at school, become alcohol or drug dependent, or go to prison. he will become frightened, he will become violent, and he will lash out, and he will not keep himself safe. adoptive parents, teachers and charities have told this programme that a major reason many of those problems develop is because children have attachment issues. and that their behaviour is too often misunderstood. it took about a year of asking for the children to both be assessed as to what their needs were going to be before we actually got an assessment done, and then ultimately, some help. they say parents aren't being properly prepared to deal with children they have chosen to adopt, that adoption and mental health services don't do enough to support children with attachment related problems, and that mainstream schools are often completely unaware these issues even exist.
they have felt very let down by the system. they didn't have the training, they didn't have the resources, they didn't have the time to be able to really give our son what he needed. two years ago, diane and adrian adopted a brother and his little sister. both had been neglected by their birth parents, though at the time, neither had a formal diagnosis. they both say adopting is the best thing that they have ever done, but it soon became clear that their daughter had severe attachment issues. the information we had on her was quite limited. it was more about the birth family than the actual children themselves. foster care had expressed concerns that she was unable to attach, but she has now got what she always wanted which is a secure loving background, family,
and she is now terrified of losing that. we were her fourth primary carer. but there was a lot of moves prior to foster care. she was three when she had her first christmas here, that would have been the third christmas she had spent somewhere else. what kind of support did you get in those early days? it took about a year of asking for the children to both be assessed as to what their needs were going to be before we actually got an assessment done, and then ultimately some help. so i think we had the first assessment... we asked for it in the june, the first assessment was the following june, and then finally got to see a therapist in september. one of the courses i would really have loved to have done was around attachment. unfortunately, the course was £7,500, we only get £5,000 worth of funding, so the company running it would discount it to 5000, which is great, but then it means i've got no therapy budget whatsoever for the children for the rest of the year. her anxiety level goes through the roof. trying to go through the school door into the classroom,
she can have a panic attack. other days, she can be clinging to school railings, sobbing her heart out or refusing to leave the school grounds. so i end up sitting in the middle of the school driveway, rocking my four and a half—year—old, her sucking my finger like a dummy, singing a lullaby, and all the other parents walking round me wondering what on earth i am doing. and she's not having a temper tantrum, she's scared stiff. she can't cope if she's not the centre of my world. she'll either have a hissy fit or do something like put her finger up her nose and make it bleed, so i have to stop what i'm doing and go and attend to her needs. she has beaten me black and blue. i've had bruising from everything from sort of there and there, where she hasjust been on my lap. if i put her down, she wants to be held, and then equally, she doesn't... the vast majority of british children have consistent parents, and therefore develop a secure attachment. more than one in ten children have an avoidant attachment, because their parents were dismissive of them. they can be clingy, but can also avoid physical contact by appearing
to deal with their own distress. another one in ten have an ambivalent attachment, which develops as a result of inconsistent parenting. these children become distressed when separated, but also resist contact when a caregiver returns. and finally, about 15% of children have a disorganised attachment, mainly resulting from abusive parents. they seek physical contact, but approach it looking fearful. they often appear dazed or can completely freeze. what impact has this process had on your lives? something had to give, before it was my health. so i had to make the decision to quit myjob. i've been put on antidepressants for the first time ever in my life. some of our friends struggle to understand and my family certainly find it hard. to the point where they are a little reluctant sometimes around the children, because they are not sure how to cope with it or what to do. i mean, don't get me wrong, i absolutely adore them, wouldn't change it, best thing we have ever, ever done was to have these kids, and they are... couldn't have found a more
perfect match for us. but it's notjust children in care who develop attachment problems, it can also arise if a parent or their young child become ill, for example, through postnatal depression. or if a child's parent dies. and so it is estimated that about 40% of british children have some form of attachment issue. this school in maidenhead caters for all of those children, and is one of only a handful in the uk, specialising educating children with attachment issues. what we find a lot with the children that we work with here at beech lodge is that they have experienced developmental trauma. it is the early interaction that allows healthy brain development. their sensory development, as well as their cognitive development, which, as they grow, if it has been impaired or disrupted in any way, can manifest itself in learning difficulties, in sensory processing difficulties, and often in challenging behavioural difficulties. every child is completely different, and every child's experience can be completely different. so some children may not show outwardly challenging
behaviours, but may be very emotionally withdrawn, very inward looking, to another child who may be outwardly showing their behaviour and their emotional difficulties. how prepared are teachers in mainstream educational settings to cope with children with attachment issues? teacher training, unfortunately, is very lacking in understanding attachment and actually in child development generally. and it would seem that the first time teachers and people working in schools hear about attachment is when they have a child in their class whose needs they can't understand. the government told us schools receive funding for each child adopted from care, and say, from september, all schools will be required to appoint a designated teacher, specifically for those children. the current lack of support is precisely why daniela felt she had to set up beech lodge. i felt very let down by the system, although, i have to accept that these schools did try hard, they tried as hard as they could.
they didn't have the training, they didn't have the resources. they didn't have the time to be able to really give our son what he needed. and ifelt i could, and i felt i should, and so we did. mary was put into care at just three years old and had two different foster families before being adopted. she is now 16 and recognises she has severe problems with attachment. from the age of, like, i don't know, two, i got to sleep outside and my birth mum didn't like me at all. she used to hit me. i was scared of the outside world. i didn't want to be by myself. i was scared something bad was going to happen to me and i just played up all the time. and you went to a mainstream school? yeah. what was that like? that was horrible. i hated that. loads of people were being
naughty and i was... carry on with the way i've been brought up and be naughty with them. what sort of things were you doing? set things on fire, i used to break the walls, i used to get in loads of fights. yeah. why, why do you think you did that? i always thought i was going to be left alone. so i just went against everyone, everyone's idea of trying to get me happy, and again, i didn't think that was real. what about coming to beech lodge? how has it helped? i like to go out now and explore life, i want to actually start travelling. the work i do in lessons, i do so much work and i actually think i'm going to get a gcse out of it. pamela cook sends her nine—year—old son to beech lodge forjust 90 minutes a day, due to his severe disorganised attachment issues. she said she was totally unprepared to deal with his behaviour when she adopted him four years ago. he will become quite frightened. he will become violent
and he will lash out and he will not keep himself safe, so i contacted the local authority from whom we adopted. they helpfully said that they could assist us in understanding how to cope with william's situation, but that they didn't have any spare slots for an appointment, and in the meantime, their advice was to read some works. —— books. that was about six months where you were not going to be able to have any support for your newly—adopted son? correct, whom we had just met 24 hours previously, and who we had no idea just what his background had been, because a lot of the paperwork was missing, he had had nine different social workers in two months, when we met him, the social work he had didn't turn up, the foster mother was confined to bed, the foster father was there, but he had locked william out in the garden, because he couldn't cope with his behaviour. i had to do my own research and attend my own lectures to understand.
i didn't know how to restrain, i didn't even know that i would need to. i didn't know that this child who i'd just met could have such an anger within him, and carry around so much shame. it was all new, so somebody that would have said, and this is the best way to deal with it, and this is how it can develop over the years... what about the child and adolescent mental health services? did you go to them at any point? oh, i have been to them two or three times. and they didn't know how they could help william. so they referred me to the paediatrics at the hospital, so i went along to the paediatrics, and after two months of fighting for the report, fighting for the outcome, they referred me to... back to cams. so, that was not a very helpful process, and i haven't heard from them in the last several months. you feel that you're not good enough, you feel that you are not giving a child who support that he clearly needs. you don't know how to, you don't know what it looks like. ijust think it's a real shame that this is a fairly typical and certainly not an unusual situation.
again, the government say that children with complex problems like attachment issues should have the support they need to reach their potential and say that means properly supporting their families and carers. with the support they are meant to receive currently lacking, it once again fell to an adoptive mum to take things into her own hands. helen costa runs the cornerstone foundation. she is now using virtual reality technology to help parents better understand attachment problems. she says she set it up because she made so many mistakes raising her own son. her work, she says, is driven by guilt, and she let me sit in in one of her training sessions. what we have tried to do with this is to try and accelerate the understanding and learning that you gain over years as an adopter or a foster carer, and try and get that process to be speeded up so that you already understand how trauma and attachment difficulties impact on children and how they feel and how they behave. so our answer to that was to try and put people into the child's shoes. sarah will be in there for around about six minutes. in six minutes' time,
she will emerge. if you take drugs, so do i. i have to fight to survive. baby cries you going to clean that mess up? can nobody hear me? i said, who's going to clean up that...? wow. take a minute. not easy, it's not easy. no, because, as you said, i know my child lived that. your heart beats faster, you feel the fear on skin,
i can totally understand that girl's reaction, and i can relate that back to instances i have in my home with my child, when he's communicated to me something he's lived. yeah, exactly. it's notjust showing me a behaviour that is instantaneous in that moment. he is showing me something from his past. that we all need to deal with. to really have that empathy with that situation. and to just accept them for who they are. i've just realised it has to be done very differently. some messages from you, as you are watching that. emailfrom chloe, "we adopted our nine—year—old daughter eight years ago, she is now in foster care and will probably not return, as we are being blamed
for causing her attachment disorder." "we have been begging for help but there is none." anonymous text, "there is little post—adoption support." "social services have to undertake an assessment of need if you ask for it, but they don't have to provide any support." "ridiculous." "adopters are also reliant on social workers to give full information about the children and their background." "we adopted a sibling pair and social workers deliberately withheld vital information and lied to us." "had we known it, we would never have adopted." we'll be talking more about this just after 10am this morning with adoptive parents and a clinical psychologist specialising in attachment issues. the jewel personal experience that, send an e—mail, you don't have to say your name, that is fine. —— read your personal experience into that. we'll speak to judy murray about her coaching career and what it's like being the mother of two grand slam winners. and barbara windsor has alzheimer's. she's had it since 2014,
but her husband has just gone public after her symptoms worsened. we'll speak to a charity about what to do if you're worried about a loved one. time for the latest news. here's annita mcveigh. the bbc news headlines this morning. president trump has personally welcomed home three american detainees released by north korea. mr trump and his wife, melania, greeted kim hak—song, tony kim and kim dong—chul onboard a plane which landed at an force air base in washington, before escorting them onto american soil. the men all appeared to be fit and well. speaking on the tarmac, the us president said the release of the detainees was a welcome development, ahead of a planned summit between himself and the north korean leader, kim jong—un. my proudest achievement will be, this is a part of it, but it will be when we denuclearise that entire peninsula. this is what people have been waiting for for a long time. nobody thought we could be on
this track in terms of speed, so i am very honoured to have helped the three folks, they are great people. i got to speak to them on the plane, they are great people, they have been through a lot. but it is a great honour. but the true honour is going to be if we have a victory in getting rid of nuclear weapons. israel has attacked dozens of iranian targets in syria, including weapons stores, missile launchers and intelligence facilities. the overnight air strikes were in response to what israel said was a rocket attack by iranian revolutionary guards on its positions in the golan heights. the telecoms giant bt is to cut 13,000 jobs over three years as it seeks to slim down its management and back—office roles. bt said that the job cuts and other measures would help it achieve a cost reduction of £1.5 billion. it added that it would also be hiring about 6,000 employees "to support network deployment and customer service". bt also intends to move
its headquarters out of central london to a site yet to be announced. the transport secretary, chris grayling, is unveiling plans to introduce digital technology across the rail network. the aim is to modernise the signalling system that would allow more trains to run every hour and would improve reliability. network rail has pledged that 70% of journeys will benefit from digital signalling within 15 years. labour says there'll be a "limited impact" without more lines being electrified. that's a summary of the latest bbc news. here's some sport now. huddersfield town are celebrating after securing their premier league survival for another season. a 1—1 draw at chelsea was enough to keep them up. they'd been heavily tipped to go straight back down to the championship, but it's swansea who will almost certainly now be relegated. hibs manager neil lennon has hinted that he may leave the club in the summer, after their 2—1 defeat to hearts last night.
that ended their chances of finishing second in the table. they're now fourth, which lennon said was unacceptable. danny cipriani is back in the england rugby union squad after three years in the wilderness. after an outstanding season for wasps, he's been recalled for next month's tour to south africa, as part of a 34—man squad. british number one kyle edmund will break into the world's top 20 for the first time, after one of the biggest wins of his career. he beat novak djokovic in the second round of the madrid 0pen. that's all the sport for now. judy murray is not only mother to two grand slam winners, she's also a former scottish international tennis player with 64 national titles to her name. she turned to coaching the sport in scotland, when it was still a rare career move for a woman. since then, she's aimed to give more women opportunities in the sport, including initiatives like she rallies and miss—hits. in her new book, knowing the score — my family and 0ur tennis story,
you get an insight into what drives her. asa woman, as a woman, as a tennis player, as a coach, as the mum of those grand slam winners. good morning, thank you for coming on the programme. it is effectively a memoir, and there is effectively a memoir, and there is one story i would like to pick out first — you talk about jamie going miles away from your home to cambridge, he was going to go to schooling cambridge so he could have some decent coaching at a regional centre of excellence, effectively. and you say, really honestly, it was a mistake, and that you would have such confidence now to say to other pa rent to such confidence now to say to other parent to might get offered similar opportunities, when children are that age, if they have got a talent, don't do it. why? well, i think that when he was offered the place there, he was actually offered something slightly different to it originally, and it was withdrawn at the last minute, which was really tough for
all of us, but particularly for him, because he had had his bags packed for about six months. he desperately wa nted for about six months. he desperately wanted to be a tennis player, and in his 12—year—old mind you can't be a tennis player in scotland because we have no track record of success, very much a minority sport. so we went to look at cambridge, fabulous school, you know, facility and so forth, but actually, for me, of course, you are flattered that somebody has reduced wimbledon champions is saying that your child has an exceptional talent, and i was inexperienced, i didn't know, he desperately wanted to go, andy scott there, and it didn't take too long for me to realise that you have taken him away from home, from the coaches who nurtured him, from its cool coaches who nurtured him, from its cool, his friends, and it is an environment that it is all about the tennis, and there was not an opportunity for him to make new friends in the same way. and the importance of a child's upbringing, to have the mixture of social and
education, within about six months, he was refusing to come home, he was very homesick, but absolutely adamant that he was not going to come back, and eventually i made the decision for him, and he came willingly. but it was a real eye—opener, i learned a lot of things about being a parent, and none more so than when you have to step in. so for me, i advocate so much now that kids, they may have exceptional talents at a young age, but until they are old enough to know their own minds, which is usually around 16 or 17, when you can decide whether to park something asa can decide whether to park something as a hobby, or it becomes potentially a career, you need to be mature enough to handle that. so i am very against hot housing at a young age now. give an insight into bringing up your boys as a single mum. we were both always involved in
what was happening, with the tennis, because i had been a tennis player and became a coach, i wasn't a coach when they were small, i was a sales web! but island have to coach, and it really is a big challenge, and the biggest challenge is the financing of it, developing a young tennis player, it is quickly to outgrow your own surroundings, particularly in scotland, and then in the uk. when it is about travelling overseas to play in junior competitions, even for training, andy went to spain, jamie webster france, to find the right environment, it is a very expensive journey. —— jamie went to france. the challenge of finding the finance to pay for it all is huge, but in an individual sport, the onus is very much on the parents to make everything happen for their kids. if they had been exceptional footballers or cricketers or rugby players and had been signed up by a
club, they would have taken care of the fixtures, training, transport and kids, and you would have had very little to do. in a sport like tennis or golf, you basically have to make everything happen and pay for it, and there is no prize money injunior tennis, so for it, and there is no prize money in junior tennis, so it for it, and there is no prize money injunior tennis, so it is a massive financial investment, a huge stress. and recalling that means that you say in the book, you are really careful with money now, you would rather get the and the grant rather than a taxi. it never leaves you! i know you want to see more women in influential positions in tennis, in the governing body, prize money, sexism — what kind of sexism in the sport have you encountered? sexism — what kind of sexism in the sport have you encountered ?|j sexism — what kind of sexism in the sport have you encountered? i think, imean my sport have you encountered? i think, i mean my first big encounter with sexism was when i did my last coaching qualification, around 1985, a year—long qualification, i was a
volunteer coach at my club, and i wa nted volunteer coach at my club, and i wanted to improve, and actually applying for a place on the performance coach award, it was the first year of it, there were 20 places available, i didn't think i would get one, you know, because of being part—time, maybe because of being part—time, maybe because of being female, and also living so far away in scotland. but i applied for away in scotland. but i applied for a place, i got it, there were 80 men and two women, went down to the first workshop in basingstoke. —— 18 men and two women. i was very much out of my depth and uncomfortable, and one of the tutors said to me, you are lucky to have a place, we had to turn a lot of men away! and i thought, wow, why is he telling me this?! i literally just thought, wow, why is he telling me this?! i literallyjust got here, i wa nt to this?! i literallyjust got here, i want to learn, and it made me feel more uncomfortable than ever, so i let it worry me for about an hour, then i thought, stuff it, i will get on with it. have attitudes changed since the 1990s? we have seen the me
too movement affect all sorts of industries, sectors — is there a me too movement going to happen in tennis, do you think? there is a groundswell in women's sport, certainly within tennis and the lta, they have a women and girls strategy manager now, to manage a development plan that is a huge step forward, and it had been needed for a long time. i think the she rallies programme, we are aiming to build a stronger female workforce with part—time stronger female workforce with pa rt—time ambassadors around stronger female workforce with part—time ambassadors around the country, that is another big step forward , country, that is another big step forward, but it was an eye—opener when i was the fed cup captain and started to travel with the girls, to see that it was very male dominated, hardly any women coaches at the top end of the game. so i have gone out of my way to have a bigger and stronger workforce across the uk, but to try to ensure there is a career pathway for female coaches who are good enough and want to progress to work at the top of the game, because we must have more female influence, because women
think and act on behalf of women in a way that guys won't. sub lenovo djokovic suggested in january, men need to form a union to fight far higher percentage of the profits from the grandson tournaments —— something novak djokovic suggested. tournaments —— something novak djokovic suggestedlj tournaments —— something novak djokovic suggested. i think the union is needed, they should look at thejoint union union is needed, they should look at the joint union between the men and the joint union between the men and the women because the strength is in working together without question. his point was, they could fight for more of the profits because men's tennis is more popular, sells more tickets, gets more tv audiences than women's tennis, he is right about that bit. yeah, in certain things, market forces, the men's talk is a separate entity touring larger crowds because of sponsors and so forth, but at grand slam and bigger tour events, joint events, there is a massive buzz and massive
opportunity for tennis in general. i still believe there will be much stronger working with the women to influence the major events to give a bigger share of the prize money to players. interesting. the prize money at the big events is the same for men and women. everyone wants to know about andy murray and his injury and you would seem to be a very good person to ask. he has not played since wimbledon last year, when is he coming back? it has been a long and frustrating lay—off for him and he is doing everything he can to be ready, but the strength and depth of men's tennis is so great now that i do not think anyone would want to come back from an injury into that environment, unless you are 100% fit. he is doing everything he can to get ready and i am sure when he has some news, he will share it. his goal was to try to be ready for the grass court season and fingers crossed that will happen. are you able to put a
percentage on how fit he is? no. it will take us as long as it takes and he will decide when he is ready. you will have heard some people ask, is this the end of his professional career? what would you say?” this the end of his professional career? what would you say? i would say, i do not think so, he has still got a lot of things he wants to achieve in the game. i want to ask you about serena williams as well, ifi you about serena williams as well, if i may, going to play in rome next week, french open, wimbledon, what more can she achieved? she has been so incredibly successful for such a long time, she and her sister, venus, they have been dominant, they changed the face of the women's game in terms of it becoming a power game, great ambassadors for women's tennis, but i think it is all about yourinner tennis, but i think it is all about your inner drive, personal pride. she is still trying to chase margaret court's grand slam title, very few things in the game she has not achieved, serena williams, but i
think now she has her little daughter, she probably wants to show her, this is what mum does. same thing, same as andy, she will not come back until she feels she is 100% ready to compete. come back until she feels she is 10096 ready to compete. thank you. good luck with the book. coming up... we'll look at the issue of male mental health and suicide after a coronation street storyline highlighting the issue. very powerful storyline. the husband of dame barbara windsor has described the moment she was told she had alzheimer's four years ago and he told us how terrified he feels about going out in public now her symptoms have worsened. speaking to the sun, scott mitchell said that's why they've now decided to talk openly about her diagnosis. i'm joined by our correspondent simonjones. tell us more about what he said in
the interview? a very emotional interview, talking for the first time about the diagnosis and the effect it had on her and him. he said he first noticed back in 2009 something might be wrong because he said when she was in eastenders, towards the end of her first stint, having difficulty remembering her lines, but at the time, they did not to think —— they did not think too much about it, but for use ago, she decided to undergo tests and that is when the diagnosis was made. speaking in the sun, he says... when the doctor told us, she began crying then held it back, stretched her hand out to me and mouthed, "i'm so sorry." she apologised to him? she said she was sorry at that point and he squeezed her hand and said, everything is going to be ok. he talks about why he has decided to speak about it now, he says people approach her in the street, people feel they know her because of
eastenders and films, she wants to chat, but he says... i live in constant terror that she's going to say something, or suddenly have a panic attack, or get photographed when she's not looking right. asking about going public, he is asked whether he discussed it with her, and he said, of course he did, and she was constantly asking him whether people out and about new about her condition, and she gave her blessing for him to talk about it. but he says, if she forgets she gave her blessing, i will have to deal with that. he talks about noticing how it developed, at times, i would see a slight sadness developed that was not her, i put it down to age, but i now believe it was the very start of the illness. he concludes, the confusion has started to set in much more over past the few weeks so we have decided she should now retire from charity work as well as acting. he talks about it being a cruel
disease, she has been taking medication, but recently, it seems to have got worse, that is why he has decided to speak out. one of these things many people will feel whether or not they have experienced it, one of those faces which has been around forever, it seems. she took to the stage when she was 13 for the first time, working since then, from the carry on films, eastenders, a figure she has always been there, part of national life. thank you very much. i'm joined byjeremy hughes, the chief executive of the alzheimer's society. we have met before. hello. i am interested to hear what you think about barbara windsor‘s husband saying he is worried about when they go out because the public is drawn to her, they want to talk to her, and he worries that perhaps she will be photographed in a particular way or she will not be able to answer in her normal way and people will get the wrong idea, can you relate to that? do other people say that?” understand that. it is one of the
big changes, getting it accepted, when people have alzheimer's, there is still the same person inside, but sometimes their behaviour is affected by the disease and we need to recognise people will change and we just need to give them a bit more time and let them be who they are. we have got over 2.5 million people who have become dementia friends, a national programme to increase awareness and let people understand what it is like to have dementia, he has done the right thing, to let people know she has alzheimer's, we should all be tolerant and recognise she's still the person inside she a lwa ys she's still the person inside she always has been, but her behaviour and the way alzheimer's affects her, it affects the way she relates to people and makes life more difficult and we have to be supported. how much does it help when somebody like this reveals they have this condition? it can make all the difference because from the alzheimer's society, we can provide support, volunteers and advisers all
over the country, people can still get involved in group activities, go out, because the dementia friends are there to make it ok for you to say, i've got dementia, i need help. the right thing to do is to recognise that when you have alzheimer's, it is ok to speak out about it. the sad thing is many people do not even get a diagnosis. around two thirds of people in this country better diagnosis, that means one third do not, and in some parts, it is around half, devon, lincolnshire, the latest figures, half of the people with alzheimer's even get a diagnosis, everyone has a right to know when they have a disease and we can do is about it and give them support. good time to ask you what the symptoms are. they will vary from person to person but often it affects memory, not only memory, it can affect your ability to relate to the space you are in, eyesight, you're hearing, a number of different things, but normally, the most common symptom, people get confused, they find it difficult to
deal with everyday circumstances, they do not remember things in the way they used to, people with alzheimer's often who are in hospital because they are in for another reason, they might have a fracture, and infection, they sometimes do not remember when they are hungry and thirsty and they get malnourished and that will happen at home as well. people need reminding about everyday tasks, they need help to find their way around the kitchen. we asked people to put a photo on the front of the cupboard showing what is inside the cupboard because often you cannot remember where the tee and the sugar is. helping people find little things to adapt the living environment to live better with alzheimer's is what it is about, while of course doing the research we are committed to to try to find a cure because it is a long way off and we need to make it happen as quickly as possible. thank you very much. not at all. nice to see you. thank you for your comments too about attachment issues, we showed you a film earlier, talking
about children who have been adopted and exhibiting behaviour that comes under the umbrella known as attachment issues. it can be anything from anxiety and depression to quite aggressive and violent behaviour towards adopted parents. this e—mail, we were told little or nothing about attachment disorder when we adopted 13 and 16 years ago. what we were told related to the first few months, not the long—term issues. 0ur first few months, not the long—term issues. our son is now 18 and he figured out what the cause of his problems were last year but not until we had had years of stress, doubting our sanity, both him and us. thankfully, no violence, but lots of exceptionally hurtful words and risk—taking behaviour. it has cost him hisjob and career and it impacts on everything. he was adopted at two but the damage had already been done. this tweet, we
have had fantastic support for our adopted son from local services, i cannot thank them enough, i just wish they could give the same support across the board, we have been lucky but others in the area have not. it is very sad. 0n have not. it is very sad. on facebook, i was adopted and i remember clinging to my mum, screaming, not wanting to go into the classroom. asa into the classroom. as a lecturer in special educational needs, i am as a lecturer in special educational needs, iam really as a lecturer in special educational needs, i am really surprised at the level of understanding when we talk about attachment disorders. i also teachin about attachment disorders. i also teach in a primary school and the focus on test scores and pointless paperwork leaves no time for training or improving practice in such an important area. staggering considering how much of an impact and increased understanding would make. thank you for those. we will talk more in the next half an hour. get in touch. news and sport on the way. as always, before that, the weather. for many of us, off to a sunny
start. as you can see from this beautiful picture sent in from the isle of wight. as well as the sunshine, showers in today's for cost, the heaviest in north—west scotland, some will have hail and thunder. a lot of dry weather around today, sunshine, but anywhere from north wales to lincolnshire northwoods, not immune to the shower, but the heaviest likely to be across north—west scotland. breezy here as well. temperatures down on yesterday down more than that in the south—east, gravesend reached 22 yesterday, uv levels moderate to high, pollen levels moderate, except for northern scotla nd moderate, except for northern scotland where they are low. this evening and overnight, a cold night, clear skies, some frost around as well. all the time, approaching weather front throwing more cloud ahead of it, rain will follow later
on. temperature wise, these are the values in towns and cities, in the countryside, lower than this. values in towns and cities, in the countryside, lowerthan this. fine and dry start tomorrow for many. scotland, a lot of sunshine from the word go. the band of rain is already starting to encroach on northern ireland. for the rush hour. for england, wales, a lot of dry weather, cloud building across the irish sea and the celtic sea ahead of the band of rain coming. the band of the band of rain coming. the band of rain will continue to journey through northern ireland, western scotland, west wales, south—west england, but ahead of it, quite a bit of cloud, so in the west, by the end of the afternoon, if you do not have the rain, it will be a cloudy enter the day certainly. in the east, much brighter skies. there will be showery
outbreaks of rain coming up in the south—east and for a time we will see some across the far north of scotland. in the west, hefty showers coming in across the channel islands, south—west england, wales and northern ireland, and in between, something drier and brighter, the driest and brightest conditions in between these two areas, we are looking at highs of 1617. sunday, we still have the weather front, 1617. sunday, we still have the weatherfront, depending on happens ofed—macro on saturday, we expect it to be here, throwing cloud ahead of it, rain in the north, drier in between, temperatures a bit low for this stage of may, particularly in the south. hello, it's thursday, it's ten o'clock, i'm victoria derbyshire. three americans held prisoner by north korea arrive back on home soil. president trump says a date has been set for his historic meeting with north korea's leader kim jong—un. they have been through a lot.
but it is a great honour. but the true honour is going to be if we have a victory in getting rid of nuclear weapons. adoptive parents tell this programme they're desperate for more help for the children whose attachment issues mean they can't cope with everyday life. ididn't want i didn't want to be my myself, i was scared something bad was going to happen to me, i played up all the time. we'll speak to adoptive parents, and a clinical psychologist who specialises in attachment issues. and after coronation street highlights the issue of male mental health, we'll discuss why suicide is the biggest killer of men under 45. good morning. here's annita mcveigh in the bbc newsroom with a summary of today's news. president trump has personally
welcomed home three american detainees released by north korea. mr trump and his wife, melania, greeted kim hak—song, tony kim and kim dong—chul onboard a plane which landed at an force air base in washington, before escorting them onto american soil. the men all appeared to be fit and well. speaking on the tarmac, the us president said the release of the detainees was a welcome development, ahead of a planned summit between himself development, ahead of a planned and the north korean leader, kim jong—un. my proudest achievement will be, this is a part of it, but it will be when we denuclearise that entire peninsula. this is what people have been waiting for for a long time. nobody thought we could be on this track in terms of speed, so i am very honoured to have helped the three folks, they are great people. i got to speak to them on the plane, they are great people, they have been through a lot. but it is a great honour. but the true honour is going to be if we have a victory
in getting rid of nuclear weapons. the telecoms giant bt is to cut 13,000 jobs over three years as it seeks to slim down its management and back—office roles. bt said that the job cuts and other measures would help it achieve a cost reduction of £1.5 billion. it added that it would also be hiring about 6,000 employees "to support network deployment and customer service". bt also intends to move its headquarters out of central london to a site yet to be announced. israel has attacked dozens of iranian targets in syria, including weapons stores, missile launchers and intelligence facilities. the overnight air strikes were in response to what israel said was a rocket attack by iranian revolutionary guards on its positions in the golan heights. the husband of dame barbara windsor says the actress has alzheimer's. scott mitchell said his 80—year—old wife was diagnosed four years ago but her condition had worsened in recent weeks. dame barbara, who's 80, starred in the carry on films and later in eastenders.
the veteran of film and tv was made an mbe in 2000 and a dame in 2015 for services to drama. that's a summary of the latest bbc news, more at 10:30. here's some sport now with katherine. huddersfield town will be playing in the premier league again next season. a spectacular save from jonas lossl kept them in the game at chelsea. it finished 1—1, and that was enough to keep them up. it also meant swansea will almost certainly be relegated. huddersfield manager david wagner gave the go—ahead for the players to have a few beers on the long coach trip back to yorkshire. the players have done it. they always believed that in football sometimes the impossible is possible, and the guys have done it. and this makes me even more proud that they've done it, they didn't rely on anybody, they've done it on their own
in these difficult occasions where we were on sunday and today. and this is just incredible. that result opened the champions league door for tottenham. their 1—0 win over newcastle at wembley means they're guaranteed to finish in the top four. harry kane's 28th league goal of the season secured it for them. there were emotional scenes at the etihad stadium as champions manchester city bid farewell to yaya toure, after eight years with the club. and it was a great send—off, with city beating brighton 3—1 to set a new premier league record of 97 points. in scotland, hibs manager neil lennon hinted that he could quit this summer, after they lost 2—1 to hearts. that ended hibs' chances of finishing second in the table. they're now fourth and lennon said that was unacceptable. they have just one game to play. danny cipriani has been recalled to the england rugby union squad for next month's tour of south africa. his last international appearance was three years ago, but he's been outstanding for wasps this season, and head coach eddiejones said
he deserved an opportunity. jones had previously overlooked him due to concerns over his attitue. cipriani is part of a 34—man squad that includes seven uncapped players. kyle edmund enjoyed one of the biggest wins of his career, beating novak djkovic in the second round of the madrid 0pen. the british number one is now almost certain to break into the world's top 20, and he said making it to the semifinals of the australian open this year had given him vital experience in the big matches. reaching the semifinals of a grand slam was a great experience for me, like...a new environment, new pressures mentally and so it was good for me to learn, so it's good after that to take some time and reflect but also just use it and bank it and use that experience in these situations. but i did that, kept calm, realised my game is enough, i don't have to do more against the top player. chris froome literally has a mountain to climb if he's to get back into contention at the giro d'italia. today's sixth stage takes the riders
on a gruelling ascent of mount etna. froome is almost a minute behind the leader, rohan dennis, with britain's simon yates just 17 seconds off the pace. enrico battaglin of italy won stage five in sicily. that's all the sport for now. cheers, we've been talking this morning about attachment issues, after parents of adopted children told us they are in desperate need of more help to deal with the problems they cause. attachment issues develop when children are neglected or abused by their main carer, often causing them to behave violently and struggle to cope with everyday life. the uk's biggest adoption charity is warning that almost a third of adoptions are at risk of falling apart and this programme has been told that a failure by social services, schools and mental health services to help parents deal with this particular problem is a majorfactor. we'll be discussing this more in a moment, but first here is a short section of chris hemmings' report we showed you earlier.
there's more than 70,000 children awaiting adoption in the uk, and its estimated that about three quarters of them have suffered neglect or abuse. adoptive parents, teachers and charities have told this programme that children who suffer developmental trauma aren't getting the support they needed for serious problems related to that trauma. those are attachment issues. it took about a year of asking for the children to both be assessed as to what their needs were going to be before we actually got an assessment is done, and then ultimately some help. two years ago, diane and adrian adopted a brother and his little sister. both had been neglected by their birth parents, although at the time, neither had a formal diagnosis. foster care had expressed concerns that she was unable to attach, but she has now got what she always wanted, which is a secure, loving background. and she is now terrified of losing that. her anxiety level go through the roof. trying to go through the school
door to her classroom, she can have a panic attack. other days she can be clinging to the school railings sobbing her heart out, refusing to leave the school grounds, so i end up sitting in the middle school driveway rocking my four—and—a—half—year—old, her sucking my finger like a dummy. she'll either have a hissy fit or she will do something like that her finger up her nose and make it bleed, so i have to stop what i am doing and go and attend to her need. she has beat me black and blue. she wants to be held, but she is resistant to it. daniela shanly‘s son has severe attachment problems, and she soon found that mainstream schools just couldn't cope. so she founded beech lodge, one of only a handful of schools in the uk specialising in dealing with children like hers. it is the early interaction that allows healthy brain development, their sensory development as well as their cognitive development, which, as they grow, if that has been impaired or disrupted, can manifest itself in learning difficulties, in sensory processing
difficulties, and often in challenging behavioural difficulties. how prepared are teachers in mainstream educational settings to cope with children with attachment issues? teacher training, unfortunately, it's very lacking in understanding attachment, and actually child development generally. it would seem that, you know, the first time teachers and people who work in schools here about attachment is when they have a child in their class whose needs they can't understand. pamela cook sends her nine—year—old son to beech lodge forjust 90 minutes a day due to his severe disorganised attachment issues. she says she was totally unprepared to deal with his behaviour when she adopted him four years ago. he will become quite frightened, he will become violent, and he will lash out, and he will not keep himself safe, so i contacted the local authority from whom we adopted. they helpfully said that they could assist us in understanding how to cope with william's situation,
but that they did not have any spare slots for an appointment, and in the meantime, their advice was to read some books. i had to do my own research, attend my own lectures to understand. i didn't know how to restrain, i didn't know that i'd even need to... that this child who i had just met could have such an anger within him. ijust think it is a real shame that this is a fairly typical and certainly not unusual situation. we can speak now to anna roche, who has adopted a son, with attachment issues. dr matt woolgar is a consultant clinical psychologist specialising in this area. sue armstrong brown is the ceo of adoption uk. and stuart guest is in birmingham. he's a head teacher who has also adopted a daughter and a son. welcome, all of you, thank you for coming on the programme. matt, how would you describe what an attachment issue is? well, when
children are born, they need to form a special, unique relationship with a special, unique relationship with a caregiver, and for adopted children, that relationship has changed. they are moving into new homes, they need to develop new relationships with new carers, and they bring a legacy of their experiences, and it can lead to quite a challenging period in setting up a new attachment relationship. anna, you adopted your son at 13 months, how did his problems manifest themselves? my son has attachments that were broken because of troubles experienced in the past in his life, and also pre—birth, neglect, abuse particularly. and also, with my son, it seems like he is very hyper vigilant, he can be very controlling, he doesn't feel safe, so controlling, he doesn't feel safe, so in controlling, he doesn't feel safe, soina controlling, he doesn't feel safe, so in a classroom environment, for example, in the mainstream setting, he is always on the watch for things, who is coming through the door, who is doing this, and that
manifests in hyper arousal, so it manifests in hyper arousal, so it manifests as adhd. he has also got trade is under the developmental kind of trauma banner, but traits of autism spectrum disorder, adhd, sensory processing issues, so if an environment is very stimulating, with bright pictures, neon lights, noise, whistles, telling you to line up noise, whistles, telling you to line up or queue up for water or go to the toilet, you know, noise like that can trigger things with him, and it can then result in challenging and unusual behaviours. can you explain, matt, right the way a child is brought up or treated in the very, very, very early stages of their life, you adopted your son at 13 months, just over a year, why that impacts on them as an eight—year—old, a 15—year—old, a 42—year—old? eight—year—old, a 15—year—old, a 42-year-old? part of it is the attachment relationship, it is a pattern of experience as laid down
that a child learns about those initial important relationships, but as anna said, other important things are going on, and attachment is not the only show in town. there are things that go won't prenatally, abuse, neglect, exposure to drugs and alcohol in utero. so attachment is, in many ways, the output of a whole range of things that are impacting them. did you have any discussions with the relevant adoption services about this issue before you adopted your little boy? we went through a very vigorous process , we went through a very vigorous process, it took three years to adopt, so whilst it was there, you know, almost a decade ago, learnings we re know, almost a decade ago, learnings were not quite what they were today, but, yes, it was an invasive and thorough process, and we were set up to understand some things, but words like developmental trauma and attachment were probably mentioned less, but we saw profiles of the types of children that were looking
for homes in the care system. do you think you were prepared or not? prepared relatively well, but like diving a car, learning to drive, you need to be in it, doing it, you learn as you go. since that issues have become apparent, help or not? yes, but like apparent, help or not? yes, but like a lot of parents in my position and with special needs children, you have to go knocking on the door, you have to go knocking on the door, you have to go knocking on the door, you have to become a fighter. i'm going to bring in stuart in a moment, sue armstrong brown, head of adoption uk, we have heard from the report today, a lot of parents feel they are not getting the support, first of all, many were not warned, now the behaviour is there, they have no one to help them deal with it. yes, what the stories are showing is that we are still dealing with an adoption system that while it is geared to recognise individual point of need, it does not accept really that the majority of children who
are coming to adoption have come from care, three quarters are adopted from care, and most have been removed from birth homes where they were not safe for various reasons, so they will come with a legacy of that trauma, the attachment bond is a template that a child learns at the beginning of life about how to trust others and how they feel about themselves and it isa how they feel about themselves and it is a template they carry through life. if a child has had parenting that was not safe or inconsistent, frightening, they defend themselves ina way frightening, they defend themselves in a way that makes sense, but if they carry on doing it in a safe and loving home or with the peers at school, teachers, like it is a threat, frightening, like it may disappear, it becomes a pattern of behaviour that does not help. we have to look at adopted children with the expectation there will be a need for help. a mindset change. we need for help. a mindset change. we need to see that ready availability so parents are not having to fight for it, it is there when they need it. stewart, good morning, thank you
for coming on, you have adopted a son and daughter, both have attachment issues, you are a primary school head, our mainstream schools able to cope with and understand these attachment problems? there is an increasing amount of schools becoming trained and understanding attachment difficulties, but that is only the first stage, the understanding, the knowledge and principles, that has got to be fed into policies and practices that are not shame inducing, supporting the children. that has got to follow into provision for these children which has a cost involved. there is a change of research and understanding of attachment in schools, but it is onlyjust starting. interesting because in ayes say 40% of children have some sort of attachment issues —— nice. it has only come to the forefront in the last ten years, leadership of
schools were trained ten, 15, 20, 30 years ago, said they would not have had the training. if we want systematic change in schools, we have to get the leadership to fully understand what attachment difficulties are and trauma, developmental trauma, and make sure their policies and practice change in school to support not only children with attachment difficulties but all children. anna, in terms of the impact of your little boy's behaviour, how does it affect your family life? does not a lwa ys affect your family life? does not always make for an easy life, it can be very challenging. with george, i grew up with my mother doing the typical sanctions, that is what happens in the majority of mainstream schools, behaviour sanctions, charts on the wall, it does not work with my child, he does not understand cause and effect, if i say, you cannot have that, he is playing up, he will say, i do not care. he has had lost, he has low
self—esteem. we have to parent in a very therapeutic way and that is why he is at the school which is fantastic and he is getting a very holistic, nurturing education. it makes for a quite difficult lifestyle and it goes against the grain of everything you understand andi grain of everything you understand and i choose not to read books that benchmark and so by this age can he should be doing this, you have to learn a new way of parenting. what does a therapeutic way of parenting mean? very kind to him and when things are very difficult, you have to unconditionally give him the most love, tickle him, be playful, things you do not feel like doing when you are feeling quite angry sometimes. you have to be very patient, very measured. i have to use short sentences, no point talking about lots of things you want done, george, coat. shoes. that is how i have to parent him. a number of
adoptions you say are at risk of breaking down because there is not support for parents with children with these issues, is that correct? yes, you said that in the concept, a third, they are struggling, and need ongoing help and support —— in the introduction. only one in 20 breakdown... at risk, i think we we re breakdown... at risk, i think we were saying. some adoptive parents would say they would never give up on their child, but that is the commitment holding it together. another third need help. then with help, they can get on and have a really great prospect. the final third, very similarto really great prospect. the final third, very similar to mainstream families that have not experienced adoption. that is the broad breakdown. within the third having real problems, attachment disorders can play an enormous part, there will be other things as well. the legacy is brought into the adoptive family and needs to be addressed the within family. a couple of messages
here, no mention of special guardianship orders, we have for—year—old with attachment issues, no support at all, we're hot feature supported but we live in cornwall. wendy says, adoptive parents of two adults —— we are hertfordshire supported. 0ne adults —— we are hertfordshire supported. one is a drug addict and in an abusive relationship, the other is in a relationship with someone who has as many problems as they have, it is obvious things have not changed with the services, we had a horrendous time, no help, we we re had a horrendous time, no help, we were blamed by social services, no one wanted to listen, this will impact on our grandchildren too. we still need help, no one cares, huge affect on our lives. incredibly frustrated, wendy. this e—mail says, iaman frustrated, wendy. this e—mail says, i am an adoptive parent with a child i adopted at two who has attachment disorder, no help from the schools or social services. because of her behaviours, my marriage has broken down. amanda says, thank you for
raising the problem of attachment issues, having worked in a pupil referral unit, i saw first—hand the damage caused and a lack of support, social services is so under resourced and overloaded, staff of work which led to inconsistency for the very few people who needed a consistent support system. letting innocent children down and fostering behaviour that leads them further into a pit of despair and violence and withdrawal from mainstream society. for anyone watching right now feeling desperate and frustrated, like wendy, what should they do? there are different things, there is help available, some adopters do not know they are entitled to an assessment of need if they live in england, local authorities have to provide an assessment, they should be requesting that. does it lead to support? they do not necessarily have an obligation to provide support. in england, at least, there is the adoption support fund which
can pay about £5,000 per year per child. some do not know local authorities can get much funding for additional support from the department for education in england. —— match funding. they need to get match funding from the local authority to go beyond the 5000 limit. who should wendy ring? her social worker. or limit. who should wendy ring? her socialworker. oradoption limit. who should wendy ring? her social worker. or adoption uk. as ever, we asked the government if a minister would come on and talk to us about attachment issues and they declined. they sent this statement. "all children, especially those with complex mental health problems, like those caused by attachment issues, should have the support they need to reach their full potential, and that also means supporting their families and those who care for them." schools also receive £2,300 of pupil premium, plus funding for each child adopted from care, to make sure they get the support for their education that they deserve. and from september, schools will be required to appoint a designated teacher for children adopted from care to help them at school." thank you, all of you.
still to come... we'll speak to best—selling author jojo moyes about ploughing hundreds of thousands of pounds of her own money to save a book scheme credited with helping people that struggle to read. if you watched coronation street last night, you'll know it was the episode which showed the devastating impact of the suicide of the character aidan, played by former x—factor winner shayne ward, on those around him. the soap has been highlighting the issue of male mental health, particularly suicide, because it's the biggest killer of men under 45. producers say the plot is designed to give people who hide their feelings of desperation a chance to start a conversation. we're going to show two clips now that you might find distressing. together, they last a couple of minutes. the first shows some of monday night's hour—long special when aidan took his life. in yesterday's episode
we saw aidan's dad, jonny, discover his son's body. as i mentioned, some of you might find the content of this clip, which lasts forjust under a minute, distressing. aidan? get up son, get a wiggle on. you've got a factory full over there, and they need controlling. i've been calling and calling, went back to mine to get your keys and... aidan!
very, very upsetting. in keeping with samaritans guidelines, no method of suicide was shown. how difficult is it attacking such emotive issues on screen? and how important is it for soaps to tackle them? we can speak to matt streuli. he's a mental health blogger who tried to take his own life in 2015. we can also speak to lorna fraser. she's executive lead for media advice at the samaritans and advised coronation street writers and producers on this story. and to david brown, who is a writer at the radio times. welcome, all of you, how do you
think coronation street did in the this storyline? i thought it was very respectful. i have not watched the full episode because i found it quite upsetting and i am in a quite healthy place at the moment, it was two years ago, i am a teaching assistant, things are good, so i have only watched clips, but they we re very have only watched clips, but they were very upsetting. the fact it is upsetting, it does not mean we should not talk about it. it is vital they went with this storyline and it was portrayed in such... seeing the aftermath really spoke out and how people had missed some of the signs but he had missed the opportunities, make decisions not to seek help. which is key, isn't it, lorna, and in particular men, they will not speak to someone to share how they are feeling? that is probably one of the most important things the storyline covers, the importance of talking, both if you
are struggling to cope, talk to somebody, do not suffer in silence, there is always help out there, but also, i think the storyline covers very well the importance of talking up, if there is someone you are worried about, someone you know, if someone does not really seen themselves, talk to them about it, ask them if they are ok? let them know you have spotted things do not seem quite right and that you are there to help them. david, what did you think of how they did it? really well handled, not exploitative, we did not see the means by which aidan took his life. it shows that in a very fractured tv landscape where people can watch what they want, when they want, soaps are still unifying force, people want to sit down each weekday evening and follow these characters who have the —— who they have emotionally invested in. is it what viewers want from soap opera is? they have to walk a fine
line, they have to reflect our everyday experiences back at us, but they are melodramatic medium as well, so they present the kind of extremities of things that we can go through in life, be that good or bad. from your point of view, lorna, how keen were the writers to portray this sensitively and accurately? absolutely, it was paramount to them. i think what has been particularly helpful in this case is that the producer used to be a samaritan volunteer herself, she has had that very relevant personal experience of being on the end of the phone, talking to people, people in need of help, and both for her and the whole of the team, it was really clear from the start that they were very aware of the sensitivities around covering this topic, and the risks, and they
really wa nted topic, and the risks, and they really wanted to absolutely get it right, which, ithink, they have done, done a good job. can i ask you about your own experience, matt? what led you to the lowest point? as a teenager, i was a carer for mild colic mum, my mum and dad split up andl colic mum, my mum and dad split up and i looked after her —— my alcoholic mum. i had a warped view of alcohol, i had matured very quickly, maybe not, stilla child of alcohol, i had matured very quickly, maybe not, still a child at heart, i faced workplace discolouration, i was in an office job for five years, —— discolouration. they wanted to nurture me and i was honest about my mental health, but i took on more and more roles, as did the team, there was a very silly incident involving a temporary member of staff and i felt attacked and that weekend i tried to take my own life. a few weeks later, i went into a meeting and my department had said, no one else has a problem. the next
20 minutes, he spent trying to tell mel 20 minutes, he spent trying to tell me i should resign and it was at that point i knew that even though it is incredibly hard to talk about taking your own life, the scars we have, physical, mental, i knew! taking your own life, the scars we have, physical, mental, i knew i had to come out and i had to scream and shout, much like your previous guests, they had to scream to get help for their children, this issue will not suddenly disappear, it has been around for decades, and we are starting to talk about it and i hope we have more stories like this. i remembermark we have more stories like this. i remember mark fowler we have more stories like this. i remembermark fowlerand we have more stories like this. i remember mark fowlerand hiv we have more stories like this. i remember mark fowler and hiv in eastenders in the 905, that remember mark fowler and hiv in ea5tender5 in the 905, that sort of storyline, eastenders in the 905, that sort of storyline, someone surviving mental health, that is the future in soap opera. was david, coronation street has tackled suicide before. yes, and way backin tackled suicide before. yes, and way back in 1963, one character, sheila, was planning under overdose, the
storyline was leaked to the daily mirror, and they changed the storyline off the back of your complaints, so she actually survived. we have moved on quite a bit in the last couple of decades, definitely. have there been any complaints after last night or monday? we are not aware of any, actually, and i think that coronation street, the response has been exceptionally positive, both in terms of media coverage, but also on social media. we have seen so much positive response, people really pleased to see the topic covered, andi pleased to see the topic covered, and i think that is largely down to the fact that they have done it in such a sensitive way, not being overly sensationalised or romanticised, you know, they have done it really realistically. what done it really realistically. what do you say to those who say this is not what soap opera is for? soap opera is have always been about tackling things and giving insight to other peoples lives. the thing is
with mental health, everyone has some exposure, someone who has been neared the situation even been in that situation, so i think it is exposing it to more people, but in a way that goes, we can talk about it. we saw it last night, we can discuss it, even if it is a metaphor for what is happening in some adult's life, and it will make people feel more confident, i think, when somebody is not themselves, or you start noticing things, a text message, a cup of coffee, and if you are a line manager, studies show that 80p spent on revenge and saves £4 down the line, that bit of prevention can save someone's live. —— spent on prevention. prevention can save someone's live. -- spent on prevention. and that is what the story did so well, the missed opportunities with the character, from him choosing not to speed out, others not picking up on things. what would you say to someone with your experience from
the samaritans, someone might be watching now going through a rough patch and is not told anyone for all sorts of reasons, what would you say to them? i would say, speak to somebody, there is absolutely no need to suffer in silence. it doesn't necessarily help. talking to somebody can bring such immediate relief, letting somebody else know, sharing that with somebody, you know, talk to somebody out you know, a colleague, a friend. obviously, the samaritans help line is there everyday, but there is always help out there, and i think the other important thing to say is, imagine a world where everybody felt comfortable talking to people about this kind of thing. if you are worried about somebody, and everybody felt comfortable to start that conversation, imagine how many lives could be saved. and that is what this story does. thank you all, thank you very much. if you affected by any of the subject matter
of coronation street, you can see a full list of organisations that can provide help and support at bbc.co.uk/actionline. you can also call the bbc action line to hear recorded information on 0800 055 055. lines are open 24 hours and are free from most landlines. some networks and mobile operators will charge. still to come, best—selling authorjojo moyes is here to talk to us about ploughing hundreds of thousands of pounds of her own money to save a book scheme credited with helping people that struggle to read. are insisting on changes to the way the university handles sexual assault claims. here's some sport now with katherine. huddersfield town are celebrating after securing their premier league survival for another season. a 1—1 draw at chelsea was enough to keep them up. they'd been heavily tipped to go straight back down to
the championship, but it's swansea who'll almost certainly now be relegated. hibs manager neil lennon has hinted that he may leave the club in the summer, after their 2—1 defeat to hearts last night. that ended their chances of finishing second in the table. they're now fourth, which lennon said was "unacceptable". danny cipriani is back in the england rugby union squad after three years in the wilderness. after an outstanding season for wasps, he's been recalled for next month's tour to south africa, as part of a 34—man squad. andy murray's motherjudy has confirmed that he's aiming to be fit in time for the grass—court season. she was responding to suggestions that he'd had a set—back in his recovery from a hip injury and might miss wimbledon this summer. that's all the sport for now. it has been described as a secret painful illness which one young woman has told us stops walking and makes or need the loo 60 times a
day. gemma has cystitis, which the nhs describes as a poorly understood condition, it is estimated 400,000 people live with it, the majority of them women, and there is no cure. 13 yea rs them women, and there is no cure. 13 years she has lived with his severe form of cystitis. she has been told one option to stop her symptoms is to have her bladder removed completely. also with us, a co nsulta nt completely. also with us, a consultant neurological surgeon, christopher chapple. and monica is the founder of an educational website which aims to tackle women's health taboos. thank you so much for talking to us, there will be quite a lot of women and some men who will
know what cystitis feels like, how is interstitial cystitis different? the main difference is that cystitis is very painful and unpleasant, but it only lasts for a few days. the main difference with having this is that it doesn't go away. there are some other symptoms, so as well as having the stinging and burning and the going to the loo lots of times that you would associate with bacterial cystitis, you also feel quite a severe pain as your bladder fills up, and that only is relieved when you go to the toilet. it is really ha rd to when you go to the toilet. it is really hard to describe exactly how that feels, i can only describe it asa that feels, i can only describe it as a pressure that you feel building up as a pressure that you feel building up in your bladder, and that is what makes it quite difficult to sit down or walk. what impact does it have on your life each day? i mean, it is something that ideal with each day, i mentioned in the piece that i have written about it that i started
having symptoms 13 years ago, which is when... it wasn't under control, i would be going to the toilet up to 60 times a day, and now my symptoms are better managed, on a good day i will go 20 times, but on a bad day it could be 30—40. will go 20 times, but on a bad day it could be 30-40. wow. the pain is a lwa ys it could be 30-40. wow. the pain is always there as well, but worse on sundays than others, and there can be flare ups where the condition as, lasting from a few hours to a few weeks. —— worse on some days. that can cause significant problems with trying to work, just going about your daily life. professor, what causes this? thank you, it is a very good question. the problem is that we really don't know. it is a diagnosis of exclusion. by virtue of the fact that it is called interstitial cystitis, there is an inflammatory process between the cells and bladder. many people would prefer to call it bladder pain
syndrome, because that is more descriptive. having said that, what we do know is that when you look in the bladder of a patient who is suffering from interstitial cystitis, you see quite a lot of inflammation, reddening and so on, and you find that if you distend the bladder it becomes extremely inflamed, and that is the reason for the pain. so at this stage, we really don't know, and i would advise people to be very careful when a look on the internet, because there are so many theories and suggestions about causation and treatment, so they really have to be rather circumspect, and it is important to seek medical advice in the first instance from the gp, and then subsequently be referred to a urologist. what can help treat it? because there is little evidence that, for example, cranberry juice will help. yes, there has been a lot of enthusiasm for the use of cranberryjuice, of enthusiasm for the use of cranberry juice, and there of enthusiasm for the use of cranberryjuice, and there is no doubt it can help, although recently nice have pointed out that the
evidence of it helping for infected disorders is very limited. having said that, there is no doubt that certain constituents do exacerbate the symptoms in patients, spicy foods, rennes wine are prominent examples. —— red wine. it is important that patients are examined, and a you're in test will show whether there is an infection orany show whether there is an infection or any other abnormality that may be of concern, such as the presence of blood cells and so on. having dealt with that, obviously the next stage is to be evaluated with a full history and a specialist evaluation, and part of that is to then proceed onto looking in the bladder, and the importance of that is to exclude other pathology, although i must stress that significant problems such as cancer are extremely uncommon. but it is very important
that one excludes all those pathologies. the very characteristic appearance in the bladder will allow one to make the diagnosis and progress with treatment. and obviously, as was pointed out, there is the potential for the use of various treatments, for pain, and there is also something we find very useful in patients who do not respond to stretching the bladder, probably about 40% to get benefit from that, then you can try the installation of compounds which lined the bladder, putting in a new protein layer over the cells, which can be very therapeutic and helpful, as she has found out. moniker, many people, including myself, have never heard of this severe form of cystitis, why do think that is? in the one instance, because cystitis can refer to a really common uti, which is very common in women, so when one woman says that, he might just think, it isjust when one woman says that, he might just think, it is just a when one woman says that, he might just think, it isjust a uti, quite normal. in another sense, there are some which —— so much stigma around
incontinence problems, really negative language used to describe incontinence problems, so through that stigma there is not a willingness to share it and seek help. and even the nhs says that interstitial cystitis is a poorly understood bladder condition, do you think... i mean, what you think needs to happen to address that? more research, write ? needs to happen to address that? more research, write? and i guess more awareness. awareness into me and it is is something not to be downplayed, even though doctors, trading environments for women to come forward and talk about these things, really important. and conversations will happen which will spur research and more official things happening. still to come, cambridge students tell us why hundreds of people on campus are insisting on changes to the way the university handles sexual misconduct claims. a book scheme credited with helping people that struggle to read has been saved after me before you author jojo moyes stepped in to fund it.
quick reads had faced shutting down after a major sponsorship deal ended, and the charity struggled to find donors to replace the money. the books are much shorter than most novels and are designed to be read quickly and easily. the charity has donated millions of books to libraries, hospitals, workplaces and prisons since it was set up in 2006. there have been more than 100 titles written, many by famous authors like andy mcnab, crime writer ann cleeves and fern britton. let's talk to her and sean dixon, who uses quick reads books to help people that struggle with their literacy, and also a fan of the books himself. it isa it is a lot of money, £360,000, extraordinary amount of money, why have you given it to quick reads? well, i am have you given it to quick reads? well, iam passionate have you given it to quick reads? well, i am passionate about literacy, as you would expect, being an author! but when i heard the scheme is ending, i thought it was
the most short—sighted, insane thing i had ever heard, because if you don't have reading, you have no building blocks on which to build success. it is so vital, and as someone who has done one of these myself, i have seen the evidence, i have seen how people use them almost asa have seen how people use them almost as a gateway drug to other books, and they get entertainment, education, such a variety of things. the mental health benefits are hard to underestimate. tell us what you think about the fa ct tell us what you think about the factjojo moyes is putting the money into save the scheme, sean?” factjojo moyes is putting the money into save the scheme, sean? i am happy. we had the quick reads books and resources and it helped us in the lifelong learning centre where i work. six new books each year and it looked like it was going down the swami, forjojo to step in, a real boost up and down the country. tell
us more boost up and down the country. tell us more about the books and why they are good for people who struggle to read. they are a hook to get people m, read. they are a hook to get people in, i have read one in the two hours gap between radio thing and this, and that sense of completion, when they are finished, it really does help, it helps improve literary and confidence. we have been using the six book challenge and we are in the seventh year and it is given that in our learning centre will happen. looking around for a smaller books to read. it has led on to a larger book club as well using the library resources, like jojo was saying, it is the introduction. the quick reads but you have written, told the audience about it, it is shorter, you can read it pretty quickly.
normal book is about 100,000 words, your average beach read. these are about 300 pages. these are under 100 pages. up to about 20,000 words. they are a little bit faster paced perhaps than your average book, not as many long words, it is interesting, i did not realise i was wordy until i wrote one and you have a specialist editing process to make sure they are absolutely suitable for people who are perhaps out of the habit of reading or intimidated by the thought of a big book, but they are really good reads, there is a reason why they have picked of the bestselling writers, we want to appeal to everybody. i got sent the others on the year i did mine, i read them all, really good books, a little bit more accessible than some of the other things. the plot, the characters, the subplot. it is not like you are doing a lesserjob as an author. in fact, i found it harder, i am a bit slow to start my
books, it made me dive into the action. they are available in a wide range of places, available free in places, they are also £1 were they are sold, it is not putting people off. you talked about the sense of accomplishment, sean, from one of the people —— from the people who finished the quick reads, what change do you see in people when they get through one of the books? we have run the book clubs and it gets people talking about the books they are reading, notjust gets people talking about the books they are reading, not just the gets people talking about the books they are reading, notjust the quick reads. going through the quick reads in the book club, speaking to people about the things they are reading, it is opening the conversation. it does lead onto functional skills thatis does lead onto functional skills that is one of the priority learning areas as well, it is that leading on, it is the one thing that gets them through the door that will
really pushed them on, move them onto a course, we have functional skills english going on at the minute, some of these guys, people who struggle with english, they have read the quick reads, they took part in the book clubs, and to see them go missing, it would have been a travesty. thank you very much, sean. thank you, jojo, for coming on the programme. thank you for your m essa g es messages about attachment issues. we have been talking about this a lot. joanne has e—mailed, i am so pleased you're talking about this, we have a ten—year—old adopted child who has horrendous attachment difficulties, her behaviour is sometimes unmanageable at home, but at school, she controls the behaviour. i am so frustrated. we did not get enough training prior to adoption or difficult periods. harry has e—mailed, compelled to contact you because i suddenly came to understand some of the issues my
wife and i experienced when doing cub scouts and mini rugby, i could not understand why some of the kids behaved why they did, now i have a glimmer of understanding. high five to the committed adoptive parents. yvonne said, we adopted two boys, eight and six, we are now ten years on, both boys with huge early trauma, bereavement issues, attachment disorders, the only help available from social workers occurred when we had to deal with violent assaults, we do not have a social worker, virtually no input, we are doing it on our room. even friends and family have disappeared as they do not understand the issues. —— we are doing it on our own. thank you for highlighting the issues we face on a daily basis. thank you for those. over 800 students at the cambridge university have signed an open letter to the vice—chancellor arguing that burden of proof for sexual misconduct cases is too high.
at the moment, the university relies on the criminal standard of proof, beyond reasonable doubt, but students claim that this actively discourages survivors and victims of sexual assault from coming forward. let's speak to daisy eyre, the cambridge university student union president. she signed this letter. can you hear me? yeah. i was expecting another guest but i guess we cannot technically get in touch with them, we will keep trying. where did this notion come from? this is part of a campaign going on for years in cambridge which started with the cambridge which started with the cambridge university student union women campaign doing a survey found 7796 women campaign doing a survey found 77% of women had experienced sexual harassment and this led to a campaign trying to get the university to do something about this issue which is clearly impacting the lives of so many stu d e nts of impacting the lives of so many students of all genders. the
university launched a programme called breaking the silence, fantastic scheme raising awareness about sexual misconduct and a zero tolerance policy at the university but our argument is in orderfor it to be really meaningful, it needs to be backed up by concrete changes in the procedures regarding sexual misconduct and unfortunately the sexual misconduct disciplinary procedure is lagging behind the rest of the uk universities. we are the only one in the uk that still uses the criminal burden of proof and u nfortu nately the criminal burden of proof and unfortunately the university does not have the resources to be able to try these cases or disciplinary cases with burden of proof so we have onto to change to the balance of probabilities. what was that phrase? it is called the balance of probabilities. 0k. phrase? it is called the balance of probabilities. ok. that is used in all of the universities, as you say, and lots of corporations and other
places as well. i wonder why it would be... you said they have not got the resources to use the criminal, to get through this, using the criminal threshold, why would they have the resources if you lessen the burden of proof? they have the resources if you lessen the burden of prooﬁm they have the resources if you lessen the burden of proof? it means stu d e nts lessen the burden of proof? it means students who have been through this kind of thing do not feel like they have to do a kind of semi—detective level of evidence, they are able to feel much more able to engage with the procedure and on the level that other students across the uk and even the general medical council... imagine you are student and you have experienced sexual misconduct or any other kind of disciplinary problem, do you feel like you are able to prove beyond reasonable doubt that this happened? that is next to impossible. i'm going to bring in angus now, i will come back to you, angus now, i will come back to you, angus is an undergraduate as well, also one of the letter‘s
signatories. do you worry it will lead to people who have not done anything being found guilty of something? not at all. nationally the rate of misreporting in rape cases is only 3%, the rate for people sexually assaulted coming through to conviction is less than 6%, so clearly the issue is far more with people who do not feel able to come forward, most of all, women, but men too, it is not a gender war, they deserve the right to have access tojustice at they deserve the right to have access to justice at the university. they have got access to justice at university. not particularly in the sense of it is very hard to prove beyond reasonable doubt the university should not be a court, it is more about disciplinary cases within the university, particularly in cases of sexual violence, only two people... if it was an alleged sexual assault, you would go to the police? i think people do not always
feel comfortable going to the police, awareness about how the legal system lets people down. 0k, sorry, i keep interrupting, not much time, lots of questions. you would trust the university authorities to sort something out that was a serious sexual assault allegation? that is why the women's campaign has been asking for a change to the balance of probabilities such that people have the confidence in cases of sexual misconduct, for that to be just served with the university. at the moment, people are not coming forward because there is not the space for them to do that and no guarantee justice will be served. what the students might need is for the perpetrator to not be coming into their home and their college and their lectures and so it is not a lwa ys and their lectures and so it is not always about criminal charges, it is about that victim be able to live their life at the university. 0k. about that victim be able to live
their life at the university. ok. if their life at the university. ok. if the vice chancellor is to change it to the balance of probabilities, how does that work, if a man and a woman ora does that work, if a man and a woman or a man does that work, if a man and a woman ora man and does that work, if a man and a woman or a man and a man, does that work, if a man and a woman ora man and a man, woman does that work, if a man and a woman or a man and a man, woman and a woman, someone alleges sexual assault and it is one person's word against the other‘s? assault and it is one person's word against the other's? it will work like it does in all other universities and the gmc and so many other bodies, there is no evidence base to prove that things will not be fair, furnaces so important, but it will work exactly as it does in other universities —— fairness is so important. go ahead, angus. balance of probabilities does not mean we are convicting people at whim, there are convicting people at whim, there are sizeable evidence this has happened, but it may not be quite the same as beyond reasonable doubt as in the same as beyond reasonable doubt asina the same as beyond reasonable doubt as in a legal case. sorry, if it is one person's word against the other's, where is the sizeable evidence? that has to be judged on a case— by—case evidence? that has to be judged on a case—by—case basis. people do not go
around making random reports of sexual violence for no reason, the problem is far more with people not coming forward. you are probably right but some people sometimes have a different interpretation of the sexual encounter, don't they? the university does not have the ability to impose criminal sanctions which is why we are acting it not act like a criminal court. there will be no lasting repercussions on anyone's criminal record. thank you very much. angus, daisy, thank you for your time. the university says it is ina your time. the university says it is in a period of discussion and it is an opportunity for all members of the university to bring forward their views about standard of proof and it will enable them to reach the best decision which would ultimately best decision which would ultimately be subject to further university consultation, but we cannot prejudge what the decision will be. thank you
for that. bbc newsroom live coming up for that. bbc newsroom live coming up next. we are back tomorrow. have a good day. good morning. many are enjoying some sunny spells at the moment. but it isa sunny spells at the moment. but it is a little bit chilly compared to yesterday and some this morning started off with rain, a bit of cloud on the satellite imagery, clearing to the east, so even here, sunny spells, further west, plenty of sunshine. this was in staffordshi re of sunshine. this was in staffordshire from our weather watch a little earlier. we will keep the sunshine across most areas this afternoon, a few showers expected
across scotland, northern ireland, perhaps the far north of england. elsewhere, fair weather cloud bubbling up, lovely fluffy cloud for many, it will be chilly compared to yesterday, temperatures down by a few degrees in the south—east. and elsewhere. into the evening, not a great deal of change, more sunshine, showers in the north tending to ease away, going into tomorrow, bright start, quite chilly, cloud increasing from the west, rain moving in. for many on friday, it should stay dry. bye—bye. this is bbc news and these are the top stories
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