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tv   Politics Europe  BBC News  June 17, 2018 2:30pm-3:01pm BST

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here, a very good afternoon to you! quite a lot of cloud around at the moment across the british isles, the western areas seeing the thickest of it and that is where we are likely to see more rain. some areas even here will stay dry. best chance of dry weather is out towards the east during the rest of the afternoon. all too late in the day for some of you, some of this cloud will waft away towards the north sea, clearing skies eventually getting into some of these western areas. but some of it will just of these western areas. but some of it willjust linger of these western areas. but some of it will just linger across the south, where it is going to be quite close night. a bright start to monday and that is the way it will probably stay in the east. however, out towards the west we bring in a new area of cloud and that might contain the odd bit of rain across the western shores and hills. top temperature, 25, but on wednesday it could be up to 27 or 28 in the south—east. this is bbc news —
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our latest headlines: the prime minister announces an extra £20 billion a year in real terms for the nhs — labour says it's not enough. we are making the nhs are priority, we are putting a significant amount of extra money into it. we need to make sure that money is spent wisely. we are seeing you can go further and if the government made the taxation changes we are prepared to make you could give even more to the nhs. labour would to make you could give even more to the nhs. labourwould be spending more on the nhs. labourwould be spending more on the nhs than the tories. the hundreds of migrants rescued off the libyan coast have now arrived in spain. their plight has sparked a row between european union member states over who should accept them. there are calls for a change in the law after a boy with severe epilepsy was allowed to be treated with an illegal form of cannabis oil. the home secretary acted after billy caldwell was admitted to hospital with extreme seizures. scientists are using dna
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sampling to scour the depths of scotland's loch ness. it's hoped they will gain a better understanding of native species in the lake. some hope it will prove once and for all whether "nessie" — the loch ness monster — does, or ever did, exist. now on bbc news — politics europe. hello and welcome to politics europe, your regular guide to the top stories in brussels and strasbourg. on today's program — after the migrant crisis in the mediterranean takes a new turn, what solution can europe offer? we'll look at the latest twist in the brexit row between britain and the eu over the satnav system galileo. and after meps decide not to call for a diplomatic boycott at the world cup, is the contest masking big questions for the host, russia? so, all that to come in the next half an hour, and joining me for all of it, the commentators julia hartley—brewer and paul mason.
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welcome to both of you. first of all, here's our guide to the latest from europe in just 60 seconds. the european parliament kicked the idea of a diplomatic boycott of the world cup into row z, calling instead for the eu to simply condemn human rights violations in russia. angela merkel may be facing a coalition crisis after clashing with her interior minister over plans to turn away asylum seekers at the german border. a press conference to announce the policy was abruptly called off when it emerged mrs merkel had blocked the plans. the dutch prime minister, mark rutte, told meps that the eu should rein in its spending once the uk heads through the exits. it's only logical that the budget should shrink after brexit. and there was more belt tightening as the european parliament agreed to cut the number of meps after brexit. and critics of the so—called brussels gravy train had a headline
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writing field day when, yes, you guessed it, it broke down taking officials to strasbourg, leaving them stranded for hours with only a flock of sheep for company. well, let's pick up on brexit, and who better to help us than the bbc‘s europe correspondent, katya adler. and surprisingly, she's in brussels. welcome to the program, katya. a lot has happened here in parliament this week. how's that been viewed from where you are? well, it's been viewed, really, with several bags of popcorn and a few packets of crisps as well. ithink, you know, basically, the way the people in this building behind me in the european commission and in capitals across europe, is this is time for them to watch and to wait. they cannot get involved in what is absolutely, you know, a situation of domestic politics. but frankly, taking a bit of a wider look at this, this is how the eu has felt throughout much
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of the brexit negotiation process. they feel, in the eu, that the government has spent so much time negotiating, arguing and fighting with itself that that has stopped it coming here to brussels with a tough, single line on britain's behalf when it comes to brexit. so this helps the eu feel that cards really are in its hands, and after for what went on with westminster this week, you know, the message here is we don't quite understand it, but when you've finished, we're here. right. katya, stay with us. what's your reaction to that, paul? i think that's a very fair summary, and that what everyone's position is on brexit, and i voted to remain, although i'm a bit critic of the european union, what we've ended up doing, because the government doesn't have majority for its position, is that it can't, with any credibility, go and say anything, including as we're about to discuss, i think, on the galileo issue, on the security and defence issues. we're getting pushed around, left, right and centre. and for a conservative party, which has always sought to, as it were, embody the nation and sort of stride around the world sort of proclaiming britain's greatness, i mean, to be able to watch what katya was saying they are, it cannot be a source
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of pride, to be honest. that with the eu bodies, not the eu. most of europe is actually rather sceptical about the european union. institutions of the eu. everyone is on the gravy train with a nice big pension. they don't like that we voted to leave and that the government is even going to enact a vote, because normally when people vote against the eu, they're told to vote again. right. i mean, katya, are they doing this, as you said, with popcorn? is it with glee that they are watching what they seen as a certain amount of entertainment over here, or in sorrow? it's not — that was a bit glib of me to say about the popcorn and the crisps... no, no, it's fine! but, literally, it's because they, like we, are in front of their television sets, watching. do not think for a moment that the eu just waits, from negotiation round to negotiation round. people in this building are pouring through our press and watching what's on our television screens,
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which means that even when i go for background meetings, never mind what they say on the record, they will quote to me articles in various british newspapers. so they are watching everything extremely carefully. glee, i would not say at all, and in fact, theresa may has a lot of sympathy amongst eu leaders. i mean, i wouldn't say support in brexit, because the eu's line, and it is still very much felt in all european capitals, they really wish it wasn't happening. they do believe that it is happening, though, and as such, they kind of want to get on with it. they want to have a successful deal for the uk and for the eu. obviously, the eu is outgunning for itself, it wants to get the best deal that it can get. but if the uk's economy's in the doldrums, that won't help the eu either. if the uk's in political crisis, that doesn't help its neighbours in the eu either. so, glee, absolutely not. impatience, frustration, yes. alright. stay with us, because as we mentioned earlier, the eu's migrant crisis may have slowed, but it hasn't stopped. here's adam fleming with more.
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when we get information, we will inform you. so this is why — don't worry, you are here safe, and we will find a safe place for you, 0k? the safe place wasn't italy for the 629 migrants rescued by a charity in the mediterranean this week. they were barred from entry — a strong message from the new italian government — an alliance between the radical five star movement and the tough on immigration league party. we cannot accept any more. the ngos or private institutions will bring people, migrants to our harbours. that was clearly stated. we will accept only people and migrants that have right to come in the european union and that are brought to our harbours by official international military missions. that new government and this boat have turbocharged the long eu debate about migration. the parliament, the commission and the member states have been going around in circles
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for more than two years, trying to construct a common asylum policy that pleases everyone. the proposal‘s made up of lots of different elements, which are quite difficult to get your head round. but it boils down to this — are countries prepared to take in people who didn't arrive at their borders? meps are still smarting from the migrant crisis and the failure of the eu's scheme to share out asylum seekers. you have countries who did not even take one immigrant, either from italy or greece. to help these particular countries, there are only two countries who fulfilled their allocation quota. those are malta and ireland. all the other countries did not fulfil their allocation quotas. so if we really believe in solidarity, if these member states really want to help out in this situation, why couldn't they have at least fulfilled their allocation quotas that they had to fulfil? there is a democratic element here as to whether a country wants to be multicultural or not.
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hungary says, "no, we don't want to be multicultural. we used to be that before 1914, but then britain, france turned us into a monocultural country, so leave us alone now." a potential answer doing the rounds here this week is that the eu should set up reception centres in non—eu countries — an idea we put to the migration commissioner, dimitris avramopoulos. can you give me an example where a country that has accepted to host such a camp in this soil, somewhere in africa or in asia? so that's your way of saying it's not a good idea? no, no, i say that the — if it is practically good, why not? but so far, we listen to these ideas without having any concrete proposal. because, as i told you before, these countries must open their doors, welcome this initiative and tell us, "here we are to do it." now, the debate about avoiding another migration crisis moves from the european parliament
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to a showdown at a summit of eu leaders at the end of the month. adam fleming reporting there. well, let's talk to katya adler again about this huge issue for the eu. can you just give us a sense of the sort of context in terms of the scale of the migration crisis, as so many people see it in europe, and the effect it's had on the eu? 0k, well, first of all, i'd say that you'll remember the height of the migrant crisis back in 2015, when more than million irregular migrants came into the european union, many of them into greece or remember some of those british holidaymakers lying on the beach there when those boats were arriving, of many syrian refugees trying to escape the conflict there. that was the height of the crisis. since then, the numbers have gone down considerably and, in fact, you know, i heard when you were talking in your introduction there about the current migrant crisis, if you look at the frontline mediterranean countries of italy, greece and even spain, they'll say this crisis never went away between 2015 and now. but the rest of the eu, once those numbers, those big numbers had dropped, and people stopped flooding across the continent, the rest of the eu countries not directly affected were pretty
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happy to turn away. spain's prime minister this week said, "like ostriches burying their heads in the sand." this has all come out again this week because italy refused to take in the aquarius boat carrying hundreds of irregular migrants, and this has brought it front and centre back into european politics. as for how it's affected the eu, hugely, of course. you talk about european union. migration is certainly an issue where all you see is european disunity. if you go back to 2015, eu countries couldn't fast enough slam the doors on each other to stop those migrants coming into their country. now, again, you see the countries bickering in amongst each other. what i would say tojulia there, as regards to people who want to leave the eu, this is an issue that tears the eu apart, but when you ask, at the moment, opinion polls in most of the eu, it's not that people want to leave the european union, but they want it reformed, they want it massively reformed, and migration is front and centre in one of the top priority lists. right. well, listen, that's very
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interesting, isn't it, in terms of whether it has provoked anti—eu sentiment, which it clearly has, to some extent, but not so much that people are saying, "we want out." do you agree with that? it's fuelled parties that are more eurosceptic. so if you look at the md in germany, if you look at the freedom party in austria, if you look at the lega in italy, their main issue has been migration, but they have pre—existingly, as it were, sceptic positions on europe, such as wanting to either come out of the euro in the case of the lega nord, or be — or renegotiate. so, what's happening is that the conservative, i would argue, xenophobic right is getting muscle from the quite clear and legitimate concern that people have about uncontrolled migration into europe. what do you think about that, katya?
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is that true from where you stand, that it has fuelled those populist, as paul calls them, and sort of more to the right in terms of political parties? i am always very careful when, you know, before i say it fuels those parties, because i think we have to always ask ourselves whether it's the united states or europe — where are these parties coming from? i mean, they're filling a gap in the market. what paul said there, there are very legitimate concerns, so there are european citizens across the continent who worry about migration, who worry about globalisation, who worry about all sorts of things, and they feel that their voices haven't been heard. you then have populist politicians, for want of a better word, and we can analyse what we mean by populist politicians, but they're diving into this issue now because they see a gap in the market. and i think that when you look at the aquarius issue this week, you can see how one eu politician after another scrambled to make political capital of it.
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0n the one side, you have italy's interior minister, matteo salvini, who has really come to national fame of late on an anti—migration ticket. 0n the other hand, the new prime minister of spain, pedro sanchez, who tried to make new stripes here in brussels by saying, "0k, italy doesn't want them, i'll take these migrants in." and they're not alone. i mean, look at germany, as well, and the kind of interior clashing and bashing that's going on with the very right to the conservative party interior minister there, who also wants to really crack down on migration compared to angela merkel. so, you know, when we talk about migration, it's on two levels — the actual migration issue, and there is a yawning gap in eu policy to find a common, workable, accepted solution for all the member states, and then domestic politics — those who worry actively, voters who might worry about migration and politicians who really, to be honest, cynically use that situation to make political points. i mean, has it exposed — it probably has in your mind — exposed, to some extent, the impotence of those eu institutions? because here, nation states and their political situations and their priorities to their home nations has trumped what could have been an eu common policy.
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yes, well, democracy is trumped. this is the thing is that people of those countries have voted for national governments, through coalitions or whatever, to do their will. i know this is old—fashioned, but it might catch on one day. and it's fascinating — the dividing lines within the eu, between the northern european states, the mediterranean states who borne the brunt of that mass migration of illegal immigrants, economic migrants — i completely understand that there are 5 billion people probably in the world who would like to have life that is offered in europe, but unfortunately, the european people haven't said, "yes, we'll share it with you." that's just not how it works. but also, you've got the eastern european countries, which it's interesting, whether they're left—wing or right—wing governments, who've just said, "no, thank you, we're not going to be told what to do by the eu, we're going to bow to what our people want." i think that the big danger, in all of our nightmares, whether we're pro or against the european union, the nightmare is it breaks up in an uncontrollable way, and the way, in your nightmare, it does that is if the merkel government falls and
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switches to the right, as the austrian government did. no, what's happened, and it was alluded to there — alexander dobrindt, the leader of the csu, the sister party of merkel's party, has come out really strongly in favour of this austrian—italian line, and that is right now today undermining merkel's authority. no, angela merkel undermined her authority when she basically invited a million people, undocumented, unproven, didn't know who they were, into the country. let's agree on that — she cancelled dublin 3 unilaterally, dumped the problem onto eastern europe and greece, they didn't want it, and that is a simmering problem for europe. right. how dangerous is it, katya, listening to that, if we look at the german situation particularly, and whether she, angela merkel, and austria and italy are going to somehow work this out amongst themselves? is this a moment of danger for the eu? i like to turn things on their head, really. you say it's dangerous,
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i'd say it's an opportunity for the eu, because with all those member states, the eu really never takes dramatic action unless proverbial backs are really well and truly up against the wall. arguably, we're at that situation at the moment with linchpin germany in such trouble over the migration issue once again. now, within the government and within the governing party, if you like, itself, could this actually now finally galvanise eu countries to take some actions? i would argue more now than two weeks ago, or even a week ago, before the aquarius debacle. as for individual nations, the eu is made up of individual nations. so they do have to talk to each other to try and bounce ideas off each other before they come and sit here, which they will do, here in brussels, at the end of the month. if they start that conversation only now, when they actually come here, forget it. forget an all—nighter. it would be an all—yearer. so they actually do need to talk to each other and it makes sense. what i would like to say, though, is that they haven't had much success so far when it comes to migration.
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when we go back to 2015, what actually stopped the flow of migrants across the continent wasn't the brussels solution, which was to make that questionable deal with turkey to stop refugees coming across. it was more austria, again, taking the initiative and blocking that route from the south of europe to the richer north that the migrants had wanted to take, and arguably, that is what slowed the figures down. now, again, you see austria trying to lead an initiative, denmark has another one, other countries are trying to have a look at how to move forward in migration. they don't often agree. one thing they would all agree on at the moment, all the eu member states, is they have to talk about migration and they absolutely have to do something, and they know in italy, they have a very unpredictable government. katya, thank you forjoining us for that interesting discussion there in brussels. # galileo! 0ur reporter greg dawson has it in his contract that we play that whenever he appears, or i sing it. he's here to tell us about the other galileo — it's the eu satellite navigation system, and it's the cause of a big brexit bust—up.
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why? well, galileo is essentially the european equivalent of the us gps navigation system. now, since its inception in 2003, the uk has been front and centre. it's developed a lot of the satellites for the system, which is set to be a lot more advanced and accurate than gps. £1 billion of uk taxpayer money has gone into it, and so i think the uk government were rather hoping that brexit wouldn't have affected its future participation. but that has not gone to plan. right. was that naive, do you think, bearing in mind brexit does seem to seep into all aspects of policy, and does the eu have a point with saying, well, the uk is leaving and, therefore, cannot be part of the inner circle discussions? the eu's argument is that it comes down to the key encrypted information that galileo will provide, which could assist future military operations. now, the uk still wants to maintain that access for security reasons, and the eu is arguing, "well, look, you're going to be a third party.
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why should you have access to the 27—member state's information? " now, subsequent to that, and this stand—off, there was a delegation at the european space agency yesterday that approved the procurement for new satellites to be built and, as a result, uk firms have been locked out of that process. so, where do we go from here then? well, the government is obviously very unhappy. they're still hoping that this can be mended, but they are now accusing the eu of a lack of goodwill and, effectively, using galileo as a negotiating tactic. right. so, is that where it stands now, that actually, galileo is a proxy for the broader brexit debate? i think it's being interpreted as around about something much more than satellites and navigation systems. the issue of defence and security in the brexit negotiations, i think, for many, were seen as a given that there would be co—operation, and this has highlighted that it's not going as smoothly as anticipated. right, and is that a surprise, paul? because i seem to remember theresa may early on,
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i can't remember the precise date or speech, did allude at one point that maybe security and co—operation might be on the table. now, there was a bit of rowing back from that. well, you know, from the very beginning, we were being told by people on the inside that britain would basically say, "you don't want to lose gchq, and you don't want to lose britain's military contribution to the defence of europe, do you?" and that would be there. no, in public, the government has said, "we're not trying to use this as a negotiation." but this, read it, it's the europeans playing back, saying, insofar as you keep threatening to pull security co—operation, we can threaten to pull galileo. and i'm sorry, it is a terrible position to be in. for both sides, though, surely. yes, absolutely. but british soft power should be going to italy right now, the italians have got a lot of axes to grind against brussels, we should be talking to the italians and saying, "0k, come on, let's do a deal." i'm sorry to say, if borisjohnson wants to drag donald trump's negotiating tactics in, drag them into that. let's do some deals with europe.
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instead, we're helpless. we're helpless because the government is weak. downside of brexit? no, not remotely. again, this is the european union saying, "we're taking our ball and we're going home." it's absolutely ridiculous, and i do find it extraordinary, the remainers, will generally — if the eu says something like this, they go, "see?! we told you brexit was bad." if the government says it, they say, "well, that's an awful thing for you to say. " but the reality is we don't co—operate on security and military and intelligence and all of these other issues with other european countries because we're in the eu. we co—operate because we are part of europe, we share the same democratic values — at least i thought we did. so, these things are all going to go ahead. i mean, there was one warning at one point, we weren't going to be involved in cern — that's in switzerland, it's not even in the eu, at one point. of course this is going to carry on. this isjust a lot of hot air from the eu. right. greg, thanks for coming in. shame we're not playing galileo at the end, isn't it, as well, every time you come on. but maybe for next time. you can sing it. no...well, off you go then. # galileo! it's all gone really shy now!
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thanks for coming. called your bluff! now, the world cup is underway. wall charts are being filled in around the nation, sweepstakes everywhere. and along with the football come claims that the host, russia, will use the contest to deflect criticism of its actions on the world stage. that didn't seem to bother robbie williams, who played at the opening ceremony yesterday, and yesterday, meps decided not to back calls for a diplomatic boycott. julia, should they have done? i don't think that any western democratic nation should have agreed to the world cup actually happening in russia at all. i think it's an absolute outrage. the fact that the 1980 olympics were boycotted because of the invasion of afghanistan. crimea, not so bothered about. yeah, you can shoot a jetliner of innocent people out of the sky, not a problem. syria, skripal, not a problem. but it shouldn't have been england boycotting orjust eu nations. it should've been all right—thinking democratic resignations. what did you see, what did you see — i don't know if you did see it — but the saudi crown prince and vladimir putin there, sitting sort of central front stage — two great leaders sitting on the grand stage of football, or a jamboree for dictators?
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well, the latter. and we're going to get it stuffed down our throats for the next month, unfortunately, because this is going to be one long advert for the fake russia that vladimir putin wants to project to the world, that we saw peter tatchell arrested yesterday. yeah, all credit to him. we've allowed him to do it, and the only thing i would say is that supporters — there's a big question mark on the ground — are the supporters going to try and actually do what supporters always try and do? create some kind of internationalist, globalist jamboree, or the unfortunate dark side of russian football hooliganism, are we going to see that? that's going to be the news thing. i'm hoping we're talking about stuff on the pitch rather than off the pitch, but the interesting thing is that people who, say to take the politics out of football, boris johnson said today, absolutely no chance whatsoever, it was never going to be boycotted. it would be painful for the fans and for the players. but the reality is you can't take the politics out of football, because the only reason this world cup is being played in russia and the next one being
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played in qatar... wait till qatar. ..is because of politics, yeah. and corruption, sadly. and it's going to continue. so do you think any determination by putin to somehow project a positive image of the country will work? we have to, as the west, engage putin. whatever he's done, mh17 and the rest, we have to try and find a way of containing him and coping with the hybrid warfare, coping with the soft power, and one way of doing that is to try and read what he's trying to do here, and understand, what does he want, what can we give him, what can't we give him? in other words, it's a very politicised time. i hope the public read it that way, and british politicians have to engage with what's going on day by day. i tell you what might help is if the leader of her majesty's opposition didn't stand up in the house of commons and spout the same lines as the kremlin when it comes to citizens being poisoned on british soil by a russian agent. he asked the right question, didn't he? did he? he asked the right question at the right — yeah, he did. and when the answer came from porton down, it turned out to be the right question. right. are you watching the matches? absolutely.
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down the pub... supporting portugal tonight. alright. well, that's it for now. thanks to all of my guests and goodbye from all of us here. if you had a choice about going to the seaside i think you would have wa nted the seaside i think you would have wanted to head towards the east or sunspots and the south because you're that bit further away from biggest cloud, producing the odd bit of rain across northern ireland, the odd spot across southern counties, decent sunny spells. a lot of dry weather around, get out and get on with that afternoon, but it almost three o'clock so get on with it. through the evening and overnight, what is left of the rain will go
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towards the north sea, perhaps they'll cloud left across the north—east helping keep the temperature is up. monday stars have a lot of dry weather, don't bank on it staying that way across these western areas, slowly as we get into the afternoon there is just this thickening cloud across western spots, we might find one or two showers breaking out. further east we re showers breaking out. further east were you keep the sunshine, some of it turning a bit hazy, it will not stop it being a warm afternoon. 2a or 25 could be yours. this is bbc news. the headlines at three. theresa may promises a £20 billion a year real—terms increase to the nhs in england by 2023. labour says it's not enough. we're making the nhs our priority, we're putting this significant amount of extra money into it. we need to make sure that money is spent wisely. we're saying you could go further and if the government made the taxation changes we are prepared
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to make you could be giving even more to the nhs. so, labour will be spending more on the nhs than the tories. hundreds of migrants who've been the focus of a european dispute over immigration arrive in spain more than a week after being rescued. calls for a change in the law, after the home office allows a boy with severe epilepsy to be treated with an illegal form of cannabis oil. also in an hour's time, germany's world cup campaign begins
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