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tv   Victoria Derbyshire  BBC News  September 4, 2018 9:00am-11:00am BST

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hello it's tuesday, it's 9am, i'm victoria derbyshire, welcome to the programme. it's crunch time for labour. the row over whether senior figures in the party have a racist attitude towardsjews has come to a head as the party's ruling body decides today whether to adopt in full the internationally recognised definition of anti—semitism. whether they do or not, is it too late to repair the rift in the labour party? we have to deal with anti—semitism in our society, including in the labour party and the labour movement, and that is exactly what we are doing. it's about who we are, it's about what we stand for, it's about what makes us tick. it's about the soul of the labour party. these two mps disagree about whether labour should adopt the international code in full. how do much do labour supporters care about the row? do you simply want the conversation to move on? let us know what you think if you're a labour supporter. many first dates end in a kiss. but imagine a first date that ends in a kiss that saves your date‘s life.
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we speak to a man who had a heart attack on the beach, and the woman who gave him cpr and saved his life. it's their first british interview — they tell us the whole story. i think i pulled the mask off, and i was like, "yeah, i think i had a heart attack". and i said, "i am so embarrassed". and he was like, embarrassed? you just came back from ventricular fibrillation. you should be excited. i'm like, "i had this crash on this woman and i'm... i'm like, "i had this crush on this woman and i'm... 0h, embarrassing". and we're going to show you how to do cpr live in the studio in the studio after 9:30am. britain's biggest ticket reselling website has been forced to reveal all its charges upfront because of action taken by the advertising watchdog. but there's still no limit on the mark up they can charge fans for tickets — ed sheeran thinks there should be. itjust needs to seem fair. if you bought a ticket for £60 and they‘ re selling it for £300, that's unfair. if you bought a ticket for £60 and it's £80, then, yeah. hello, welcome to the programme.
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we're live until ”am this morning. as we are each weekday. bold question for you this morning, are you in an open relationship? are you both free to sleep with other people, if you want to? we ask because a new drama starts on bbc one tonight called wanderlust, focussed on a couple who decide to try an open marriage. we want to talk to you today if you too are in an open relationship. let me know — you can talk anonymously of course if you wish. use the hashtag victoria live. if you're emailing and are happy for us to contact you — and maybe want to take part in the programme — please include your phone number in your message. if you text, you'll be charged at the standard network rate. our top story this morning: after months of arguments over anti—semitism, labour's ruling body meets this lunchtime to try to lay the issue to rest. they'll vote on adopting
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the full international definition of anti—semitism, which was partially incorporated into the party's code of conduct injuly. labour leaderjeremy corbyn insists there's no place for any kind of prejudice within the party. here's our political correspondent ben wright. jewish groups were appalled and loud in their protests, as were many labour mps and peers. injuly, labour's ruling body, the nec, decided not to reproduce all 11 examples of anti—semitism, as defined by the international holocaust remembrance alliance. following the outcry, the party decided to consult further on its code of conduct over the summer. which was dominated by the toxic row over anti—semitism within the labour party. and the leadership‘s inability to deal with it decisively. in recent weeks, trade unions and leading labourfigures have urged the party to act. on sunday, the former labour leader gordon brown added his voice, saying the ihra definition should be adopted unanimously, unequivocally and immediately.
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the shadow chancellor, john mcdonnell, has said the full definition and its examples should be accepted. but indicated the party may also spell out that criticism of israel and its policies would still be legitimate. mps from all parties return to westminster today, with brexit set to dominate the agenda. theresa may's plan for trading with the eu after brexit is under assault from many in her party and the eu has severe doubts about it, too. with little time left to negotiate our exit from the eu, politics is set for a very turbulent autumn. ben wright, bbc news, westminster. and we'll have more on this after quarter past, when we'll hear from two labour mps and some labour voters from across the party. if you are a labour supporter, what is your view on this issue? let me
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know. joanna gosling is in the bbc newsroom with a summary of the rest of the days news. tsb boss paul pester is to step down in the wake of a major it failure at the bank, which saw tens of thousands of customers unable to do transactions or read their balances. the bank, which is still facing it problems, has said there is still work to do to "achieve full stability". let's talk to our correspondent theo leggett, who's got more on this. why has he gone? basically, he has been the fall guy for the it fiasco that emerged in april and may. you might remember that tsb was in the process of transferring all its account holder records, about a billion of them. from lloyds‘ it system because it used to be owned by lloyds under a different system owned by its current parent the spanish bank sabadel. it didn't go well at all that many customers were locked out of their accounts and branches found themselves unable to work properly because their it systems work properly because their it syste ms ha d work properly because their it systems had gone down. some people saw extraordinary sums of money
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coming into or leaving their accounts. through all of this, the public face of the bank was paul pester. he appeared before mps when he tried to be reassuring and he kept on saying that the bank was getting on top of its problems were the evidence from consumers, customers was that it wasn't. he described the fundamental engine of the bank is running smoothly. that might have been correct in a very technical sense, but it didn't come across well at all in public relations terms. mps described him as being extraordinarily complacent. he did survive the initial period but over the past few weeks there have been more problems. the past couple of days there have been more problems at the bank and it does seem that enough is enough now, somebody has to take the blame. he has taken it and he is stepping down. thank you. public health england say a new online tool has revealed that as many as four out of five people have hearts, which are more damaged then they should be, given their age. people over 30 are being urged to use the test to check whether they're at risk of having a heart attack or stroke. they're asked questions
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about their lifestyle and then the tool generates their "heart age". a heart age older than your actual age can indicate an increase health risk. universities are urging the government to introduce new rules allowing international students to work in the uk for up to two years after graduation. under the proposal, the universities would sponsor their graduates to look for work without any restriction on the type ofjob they can apply for. the government says it already has a variety of routes to allow international graduates to stay in the uk. president trump has warned the syrian government and its allies that a "reckless" attack on the last rebel—held province, idlib, would be a grave mistake. mr trump tweeted that president assad's allies, russia and iran would be making a "grave humanitarian mistake", if they helped mount such an assault. thousands of syrian troops have already been deployed to the area in advance of an expected offensive. with rebels defeated in most of syria, the offensive in the northern province could prove to be the last major battle of the syrian civil war. an american football player,
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who protested against racial injustice by kneeling during the us national anthem, has been revealed as the face of nike's new advertising campaign. colin kaepernick first protested in august 2016. other players followed his lead by kneeling during the anthem, leading to criticism from president trump. caroline rigby reports. "believe in something, even if it means sacrificing everything" — the words of former nfl quarterback colin kaepernick, part of an advertising campaign for the sports brand nike. kaepernick was at the san francisco 49ers, when he began kneeling during the national anthem in the 2016 nfl season, a protest against racial injustice and police brutality — what he saw as state oppression against african—americans and people of colour. his actions sparked a wider movement and national debate, criticised by some, including president trump, for being disrespectful to both the american
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flag and the military. now a free agent, kaepernick is suing the nfl, alleging team owners colluded to prevent him from signing with another team. being chosen as the face of nike's latest advertising venture is likely to be welcomed by many, but raise eyebrows, too. in a statement, the company said... news of kaepernick‘s involvement comes just days before the first game of the new nfl season, where protests could once again flare up. this advert yet more proof that sports continues to be a front line in the american political and racial divide. caroline rigby, bbc news. nearly half of nursery providers in england say the government's
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scheme to provide 30 hours of free childcare has had a negative financial impact on their business. however, the free provision for three and li—year—olds, introduced this time last year, has proved highly popular with parents, as 0livia richwald reports. it was a vote—winning offer — 30 hours a week of free childcare for working parents of three— and four—year—olds in england, and it saved families thousands of pounds a year. i don't pay a penny now, because of the 30 free hours, so it's, like, nearly £300 a month in money that i've saved. but the government has been accused of not funding it properly. 8,000 members of the preschool learning alliance were sent a survey. 1,300 replied, and of them, 843 said the fees paid by the government were less than their hourly rate, and more than 400 said the scheme was putting a strain on theirfinances. we are seeing closures almost on a daily basis, settings that have been around for 20, 25 years, that frankly have just said that the new offer,
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the 30—hour funded places offer, is just the final nail in the coffin. like many involved in the scheme, this bradford nursery is now asking parents for top—up fees. here, it's £3 a day. but elsewhere, it can be up to £10 a day. if we're not viable, then we disappear, and lots of providers, nationally, have disappeared. my parents have been very, very understanding. they're willing to pay, because they love our nursery. the department for education says the rates it pays are for childcare only, and not for additional services and meals. it says it's commissioned new research, looking into the costs of childcare, and adds that 80% of providers around the country have been willing to take part in this scheme. 0livia richwald, bbc news. and we'll hear from the preschool learning alliance, who jointly carried out the research, and childcare providers after 10am.
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that's a summary of the latest bbc news — more at 9.30. thank you for your messages. an anti—semitism and the crunch day for labour today. i will read some of those and we have many in the next few minutes. clive on twitter says i am beginning to think this whole anti—semitism issue is just am beginning to think this whole anti—semitism issue isjust a ploy for labour to avoid having to confront the thorny issue of brexit. joshua says, who cares about definitions? why hasn't anyone asked a senior labour party representatives what their problem is with jewish representatives what their problem is withjewish people? derek says, articles like this are part of the smearcampaign articles like this are part of the smear campaign driven by billionaires who own the media. labour party membership has increased every day thanks to them. lol. we will talk more about it in two minutes‘ time. let us know what the ruling body should do today.
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let's get some sport... sarah mulkerrins is at the bbc sport centre. alastair cook announced his retirement from international cricket and some of the descriptions and plaudits he has received since. talk us through them. superman and idle, his talent clear since his first outing in the england colours. here in nagpur 12 years ago when he made a century — then at the recent ashes — and the tributes will no doubt continue to flow, as we build up to his final test, which starts on friday against india at the oval. and his stats speak for themselves. since his debut in 2006, he's played in 160 tests, he's england's highest ever test run scorer and one of only six batsmen to have scored over 12,000 runs. he's scored more test centuries than any other englishmen, and has made more catches than any of his countrymen. plenty of tributes. as we have been saying.
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jonny bairstow described him as "a true legend who set the benchmark on and off the pitch". former captain michael vaughan said, "no player has given more to the england shirt. no player has got more out of their ability". and indian cricketing royalty sachin tendulkar describes him as "one of the finest batsmen to have represented england". it's india of course that alastair cook will face in his last match later this week. expect a big send off. i think he is a dying breed, sadly. i think he is a dying breed, sadly, the test player that can occupy the crease, graft for his runs and someone you know that when they go in and they are going to give you everything and someone will have to prise them out. in a five—day game, that is a priceless commodity, because it's a long game. i'm not going to sit on the fence, i'd like to think there's someone else, but i don't see anyone else on the horizon. and there's been an upset overnight at the us open. the man looking for 21st grand slam
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title, roger federer, is out of the us open, beaten in the fourth round by the unseeded australian john millman. the five—time champion was out of form, he made 75 unforced errors on his way to the four—set loss. we were expecting a federer—djokovic quarterfinal, but now it's millman who will take on the serb. but have a look at this guy, a massive federer fan. i think if you support any team or player, we all might have been there before. the emotional roller—coaster. and some issues around who wales are due to play this weekend in their nations league match? yes — denmark are due to play slovakia and wales this week but there are major doubts about that now due to a contract
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dispute between the players and their football association. if you're off to that wales match on sunday, the likes of christian eriksen and kasper schmeichel may not be playing. it's not going well. on sunday we had a crisis point and the players union said they would extend their current deal to get through these two games. the football association have not spoken since then and could field a team of domestic based players in order not to get fined or even expelled from euro 2020. last year you might remember, the women's team boycotted a world cup qualifier in a dispute over their employment conditions and the danish fa were fined for that. good morning, welcome to the programme. it's been described as the most fundamental issue facing the labour party by its former leader gordon brown,
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and in the next two days, the party is looking to clear up its views on anti—semitism, once and for all. it's trying to decide on a definition ofjust what its members and mps think anti—semitism is. the subject has dogged labour and particularly leader jeremy corbyn for years. today, the party's ruling body meets to decide whether to adopt the internationally recognised definition of anti—semitism in full which is what gordon brown and other high profile figures have urged them to do, and tomorrow labour mps will vote on it. if you're a labour supporter, what do you think they shld do? and watch this — a reminder of how labour got here. crowd: shame on you! the labour party's been struggling with allegations of anti—semitism, accusations that the issue isn't being taken seriously enough just won't go away. and it's shaken the party to its core. it's about who we are. it's about what we stand for. crowd: shame on you! it's about the soul of the labour party. most recently, the row has been about labour's definition of what anti—semitism is. the party came up with the wording for its new code of conduct injuly. it's clear in the code that anti—semitism is racism.
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and it endorses the widely—recognised definition set out by the international holocaust remembrance alliance, also known as the ihra. it describes anti—semitism as a certain perception ofjews, which may be expressed as hatred. it also sets out 11 examples of anti—semitism. here's where the controversy lies. critics say labour's left four of these examples out of its policy, all of which relate to israel. those examples are: accusing jewish people of being more loyal to israel than their home country. claiming that israel's existence as a state is a racist endeavour. requiring higher standards of behaviour from israel than other nations. and comparing contemporary israeli policies to those of the nazis. some who oppose adopting those examples word for word say it could restrict what they claim is legitimate criticism of israel.
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labour has insisted almost all of those missing examples were addressed elsewhere in the guidelines. we have to deal with anti—semitism in our society, including in the labour party and the labour movement and that is exactly what we're doing. but many jewish groups and labour mps are unhappy. the idea that it should be the labour party defining what anti—semitism is is frankly unfathomable. meanwhile, the ihra says if organisations can change its definition to suit their own needs, anti—semitism will go unaddressed. let's get more on this from our political guru norman smith, who's at westminster. is the ruling body going to accept the definition in full with all its examples? yes, but they are likely to attach to that their own caveats, which will enshrine the right people to
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freely express criticism the israeli government and israeli policies. 0n one level you might say, so what is the fuss about? for many in the jewish community this is no longer a wrangle about wording or legal texts, it has become a sort of emblematic row. their take basically is they want jeremy emblematic row. their take basically is they wantjeremy corbyn to accept the definition and examples as it is with no ifs or buts. just accept it, is their message to him, because they feel failure to do so sort of compounds the sense that he's just not listening to thejewish community, not engaging with them. they maintain the current code freely enables people to criticise the israeli government already but above all i think they're real anger is the slight sense that the labour
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party is almost finger wagging at the jewish community saying you party is almost finger wagging at thejewish community saying you have your definition but it's not quite good enough. we have a better idea of what the definition should be. that means the row is almost certainly going to carry on. thank you very much. let's speak now to richard burden, a labour mp from birmingham, who says it's ok that the labour party has clarified the ihra definition of anti—semitism — he believes caveats are needed so as not to prevent criticism of israel. also with us, stephen kinnock, labour mp for aberavon, who thinks labour should adopt the ihra definition in full. also with us, three labour voters — sandra godley, nathan boroda — nathan's a member of the labour party and also an activist for the jewish labour movement which has been critical ofjeremy corbyn‘s leadership on this issue... and yvonne harvell, who is a member of momentum —
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the grassroots labour group which supports jeremy corbyn. welcome all of you. richard, i effectively saying to the jewish community that labour knows best when it comes to defining anti—semitism? when it comes to defining anti-semitism? no, the key thing here, andi anti-semitism? no, the key thing here, and i think the quote you had from gordon brown underlines this is whether we are serious in tackling anti—semitism as we would... whether we are serious in tackling anti-semitism as we would... you are saying it's ok for the ruling body to amend the definition?” saying it's ok for the ruling body to amend the definition? i don't think, as far as i know, i have not seen think, as far as i know, i have not seen what the national executive committee will decide on today but as far as committee will decide on today but as farasi committee will decide on today but as far as i am aware, the international holocaust remembrance alliance definition is likely to be adopted in full without modification or there may be some caveats added to it. that is called modification. it isn't modification. in 2016 the
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home affairs select committee, a cross— party home affairs select committee, a cross—party committee in the house of commons, looked in detail at this issue about how you tackle anti—semitism most effectively. its report was welcomed across the piece including by the jewish report was welcomed across the piece including by thejewish community and it said the uk government and other organisations should adopt the ihra definition but also suggested two additional caveats to ensure that freedom of speech and the right to criticise israel was protected because sadly there have been attem pts because sadly there have been atte m pts to because sadly there have been attempts to stifle freedom of speech by invoking the ihra definition. i don't think the authors of the definition intended that but sadly it has happened. the ihra says adding or removing language undermines the months of international diplomacy that led to this definition which has been adopted by 31 countries. this definition which has been adopted by 31 countrieslj this definition which has been adopted by 31 countries. i haven't seen adopted by 31 countries. i haven't seen that quote from the ihra. i'm
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telling you that's what they say. what i can say is that the author of that definition, which started out life not with the ihra but an eu body, he himself has warned against the simple adoption of this code without any caveats and he himself has warned about the possible threat to freedom of speech from it. stephen, what is wrong with adding a caveat to make sure it is clear it is not anti—semitic to criticise israel? it is up to the jewish community to define what anti—semitism means, and we have a definition from ihra which has been accepted by more or less every country in the world and all round —— our country in the world and all round “ our own country in the world and all round — — our own crown country in the world and all round —— our own crown prosecution service. but there's also a political dimension to this which is as sooi'i
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political dimension to this which is as 50011 as you political dimension to this which is as soon as you look like there's ifs and buts and you are lecturing the jewish community about how they define this issue, you are putting the labour party in a difficult position which i don't think we should be in. adrian has e-mailed, the anti—semitism slurs against jeremy corbyn are tiresome, a blatant agenda driven campaign organised by right wing anti jeremy corbyn labour mps such as stephen kinnock. i think we will never make progress if we keep on saying everything is a plot against jeremy corbyn, that this is personalised. that is the perception. you haven't convinced people like adrian that thatis convinced people like adrian that that is not what you are doing. i'm afraid adrian is deeply trivialising an important issue about the labour values we all stand for. we are an anti—racist party. values we all stand for. we are an anti-racist party. jeremy corbyn
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has... he has spent many years on the backbenches speaking out for what he believed in including being extremely critical of every leader there was during that period. those of us who believe in the power of the labour party as a force for good, the greatest force in the history of british politics, we also have a right to say what we believe and what is clear is this has a catastrophic mess from start to finish. the mishandling of this issue is inflicting damage on our party and it doesn't matter who the leader of the labour party is, what matters is the future of our party that can put this country back together again. we should be 20 points ahead in the opinion polls, instead we have spent the last months engulfed in this awful crisis. do you agree with that, richard? i certainly think stephen is right that the matter should not have been allowed to carry on as it has and we should have addressed it much more decisively much earlier.
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excuse me, my earpiece keeps coming out. i know it's a real pain, apologies for that. the key thing here is all we serious about tackling anti—semitism, whether it is on the left or right of politics or in wider society. the reality is all racism is wrong. we don't have a definition of islamophobia or argue about the words around colour prejudice but nobody would seriously suggest we should be anything other than absolutely firm in our opposition to those things and routing them out and i don't think there's a cigarette paper between stephen and i on that commitment. there's a cigarette paper between stephen and i on that commitmentm you want to send out a message to members of the jewish you want to send out a message to members of thejewish labour movement who are despairing of the way the leadership has handled the anti—semitism controversies, then a way of doing it to show you are
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serious is to adopt all the definitions, all of the examples and don't change any of the language.|j think the important thing here is to look for common ground. if we have common cause in tackling anti—semitism and routing these out, let's look to do that. let's remember the argument here is not about whether there should be any dilly—dallying around opposition to anti—semitism, hostility towards jews as people, it's an issue about how there should be discourse and what is acceptable discourse in relation to israel and palestine. 0f course we should listen to what jewish people say about that, it's important we give due weight to their views but equally we should give due weight to the palestinians and they themselves have warned that u nless and they themselves have warned that unless there are some clarifications to these examples given in the ihra
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definition, then they could be prevented from describing their oppression and dispossession.” would like to ask both of you, is there a feeling amongst some that there a feeling amongst some that the caveats which richard has just described which may be added to date are there to protect for example jeremy corbyn from any retrospective disciplinary action for anti—semitic comments he is accused of making in the past? i haven't seen the caveats so the past? i haven't seen the caveats so it's difficult to comment on that. i have huge respect for richard, i'm a vocal member and i feel passionately about the awful things the israeli government is doing, the violation of human rights and political rights and economic rights of the palestinian people. the definition in the ihra has never made me feel constrained in the criticism and attack i have made on the israeli government sol criticism and attack i have made on the israeli government so i think we have to draw a clear line in the sand between what is legitimate
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criticism of the israeli government and when it spills over into anti—semitism and former examples in the ihra are really important and i would agree with every letter and word of them. there is nothing in them that prevents me from criticising the israeli government. how do you respond to that? i have never felt restrained in my criticism towards the israeli policy of the palestinians. but the fact is that ihra definition has been invoked. let me give you a few examples. there have been calls to outlaw comparisons between israeli policy towards the palestinians and apartheid. you may or may not agree with those comparisons, but should somebody be prohibited, expelled from the labour party, for expressing a view like that? it's actually been argued that because of
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the ihra definition, people should be prohibited from arguing that there should be sanctions against israel because of its treatment of the palestinians. you may or may not agree with that suggestion but i honestly don't believe that it would be right to prohibit it. they are not my caveats. i recommended to adopt those caveats. to discuss that at length and welcomed. i will bring in three labour voters who obviously want to see labour win the next general election. i want to know what you want to say to these two labour mps. firstly, i would say that corman isn't an anti—semite. —— jeremy corbyn isn't. the paperwork that needs to be seen or not seem... the
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caveats do allow you to be able to speak in palestine. and to criticise the israeli government. how do you respond to that? i would say to richard that the caveats already exists within the ihra definition, criticism of israel cannot be regarded as anti—semitic. but before the 11 examples it says context must be considered. in that case, context should be considered, those caveats exist. but today it is about adopting the spirit of the ihra, allowing jewish people to self define what anti—semitism is. allowing jewish people to self define what anti-semitism is. what do you think? i agree with that. this is about starting a conversation because to the average person, i know that a lot ofjewish people, this is a good way to start a conversation that that is not the be all and a conversation that that is not the be alland end a conversation that that is not the be all and end all. there should be an open opportunity for expression that adds to this document as well. we can't ignore the voices of 31
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countries who internationally and globally have eyes on this as well and experiences. it's a no deal. adopt it and move on and start the conversation from there. adopt it in full without any modifications and any full without any modifications and a ny extra full without any modifications and any extra caveats? yes. i think it's any extra caveats? yes. i think it's a good starting place because there will always be different aspects, different thoughts and different experiences that you can bring to the table. if the party does that, does that heal the rifts within the party? no. i actually agree that it's one step towards doing that. the sea jeremy did a video recently in august where he made some progress “— in august where he made some progress —— obviously jeremy. in august where he made some progress —— obviouslyjeremy. but he distanced himself with some of the historic associations he had, like john mcdonnell did with the ira. but go and engage with barnett, with the jewish community. go up to north manchester. i will take for a bagel andl manchester. i will take for a bagel and i will show him the seats we lost because of anti—semitism. that's difficult. still more to do, you would agree? there is more to do
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butjeremy corbyn‘s constituency is veryjewish and so is diane abbott's and they all vote forjeremy corbyn. he does a lot of things for the jewish community. why are you frowning? i think our community cannot all vote in the same way. not all, but we are definitely labour. labour wins every time. it's not just because we labour voters. it's because we like what the manifesto. —— we are labour voters. what we see is that if the labour party, as a whole, would just get along with each other and stop all this infighting about anti—semitism, which really isn't very big in the whole picture of things... is which really isn't very big in the whole picture of things. .. is that right? it's less now. one anti—semite is too many. all these other forms of racism should be condemned. it is not one of the other, we should do both. jeremy
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corbyn still lacks that or value and ability to engage with people —— retrieve value. his mistakes, laying a brief comment sourcing the neural that was out here, igm and that is consta ntly that was out here, igm and that is constantly catching up with himself and apologising when actually he should be leading —— ijust see a marl should be leading —— ijust see a man that is. leading the way people wa nt man that is. leading the way people want to follow. i want to ask about a man called pete will wilson and he isa man a man called pete will wilson and he is a man who suggested thatjewish trump fanatics were behind accusations of anti—semitism and claimed he had never seen anti—semitism within the labour party. let's have a listen to what he had to say. and some of these people in thejewish community support trump, they're trump fanatics and all the rest of it. so, i am not going to be lectured to by trump fanatics making up information without any evidence at all. so, i think we should ask the 70 rabbis, where is your evidence
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of severe and widespread anti—semitism in this party? pete wilson now on labour's ruling body. it gets a vote on what anti—semitism means to labour —— willsman. what does that mean?” think that what pete willsman said in that recording was outrageous and entirely wrong. i am pleased that he apologised for it afterwards. that kind of discourse really should have no place, i think, on our national executive. but now he gets to vote on what anti—semitism means to labour. indeed. and he has apologised for those comments. i hope you seriously examines why that kind of outburst that he came out with a couple of months ago has caused such offence. does he need to go on diversity training? as far as i know, he has agreed that that should be the case. it hasn't
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happened yet. it hasn't happened. he has a lot of questions for the train is apparently. that might be the case, i have not spoken to him about it. -- for the trainers. what does that mean that this man is on the ruling body? i find something particularly worrying about that rant, jeremy was in the room when it took place and i think it is disappointing he didn't intervene to stop it. that's the kind of discourse, as richard absolutely rightly says, that has no place on our nec. i think it happened to some days after the voting for the nec had already started. it's possible that if it had happened before the voting had started, he may now not got on the nec. he got on by a very narrow margin. he has apologised for what he said, do you accept it? do you believe in? words are easy. apologies are a start but he needs to engage wholeheartedly in the retraining. it needs to be something thejeremy also retraining. it needs to be something the jeremy also acknowledges. there
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is an extremely important leaders speech coming up in a couple of weeks at our party conference, you could argue one of the most important in the history of the labour party. jeremy must get the tone and content right and he has to distance himself from the kind of ra nt distance himself from the kind of rant that we heard there. thank you. your views are welcome wherever you are in the country. and britain's biggest ticket reselling website has been forced to reveal all its charges upfront. we'll hearfrom ed sheeran on what he thinks is a fair mark—up. many first dates end in a kiss, but andi traynor and max montgomery never expected their first date would end in the kiss of life. the pair, from california, were out surfing together last october at the very start of a romance, when max collapsed with a heart attack on the beach. andi, a doctor, sprung into action performing cpr, which saved his life. unbeknownst to either of them, the whole thing was being captured on film. 11 months later, max is back to full
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health and the couple are blissfully in love. in a moment, we will be demonstrating how cpr is done here in the studio show, which anyone can do, if they've had some basic training. but first, let's hear from andi and max, who i spoke to earlier this morning — this is first uk interview about their story. thank you for talking to us. why don't you tell our audience what you two had planned for your first official date? well, we had been kind of seeing each other as friends, talking about the nonprofit i started and se paddle in nyc which supports paddle 4 good around manhattan and so we had been stand—up paddle surfing and we had been going to different locations to look at venues for paddle 4 good. two nights before, i had told andi i had a mad crush on her and so we were
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doing what we usually would do, which is go out and stand—up paddle surf, that was our first official date. it didn't end quite as i had anticipated! andi, you were in the sea, surfing together, what happened then? well, we went out and had a wonderful time surfing. i'm a terrible surfer. but max is a great instructor, so we had a really good time. then we came in and, i mean, i had no inclination that there was anything wrong at all. he collapsed in front of me, as we came on the beach. what did you think? well, at first, i thought he tripped. and then i realised he probably hadn't, and, forjust a moment, i thought maybe he is... you know, playing a trick on me and then i thought, "no, he's not that type of man". so then i turned him over
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and i realised that there was something very wrong and that he was unresponsive. max, had you felt unwell in the sea? the night before i had run 10.4 miles, so i was actually feeling really healthy. however, about 100 yards off the shore, after a morning of catching lots of waves, surfing, as we were paddling back to the beach, about 100 yards off the shore, ifelt a slight burning in my... i fell off my board, unrelated to how i felt physically, but the water was wishy—washy and i fell off my board. as i got back on, i felt a slight burn right there and i thought a drop of water must have gone down the wrong pipe. but in the back of my mind, a little voice said, "isn't the sign but in the back of my mind, a little voice said, "isn't that the sign of a heart attack?" since i had run 10.4 miles the night before, ijust kind of said, "what?"
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and then also, since it was our first official date, i wasn't going to go, "hey, i think i'm having a heart attack". and then wejust paddled into the beach. by the time a few paddle strokes later, i forgot about it so when i was walking up the beach, i started to feel tired. i was carrying her board and i thought i had better make it to the car, i don't want to be a wimp. then as i was walking further up the beach i kept thinking "wow, i'm getting really, really tired". i need to put the board down. i was saying to myself again, just make it to the car. then i said "gosh, i've got to put the board down". again, i don't really know what happened, because i put the board down and that's the last memory i have, and that's when i face planted into the sand. but i thought i said something like, "i need to put the board down." then i woke up in the ambulance. andi, you're a trained medical practitioner. when you find someone who is unresponsive, what do you do? whether it's a first date or not? that's a lot of why we are here.
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so, the first thing you do is you want to check for responsiveness, which is... you want to kind of gently shake the person, talk to them, and figure out if they are going to respond to you, look for breeding. then, when you realise that is not happening, that they unresponsive, then the first thing to do is call 911 or call for help and ask the people that are calling for help. i believe in the uk it's not 911. no, it is 999. what is it? 999. so, ask for help and ask that person who is helping you to call the emergency number. whatever it may be, wherever you are. then another thing is to ask for an aed device, which is an automatic external defibrillator, which a lot of people aren't going to think of right away, but you can actually access them anywhere in the world.
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they are really simple and straightforward to use. so, what i did, when i saw he was unresponsive, i immediately called on the beach and asked anybody to come and help me. and when people came over, i asked them to call 911. right, but in the meantime you gave max the kiss of life. it was actually after people came over, because, again, that calling for help, mobilising resources, that is what we say in our profession. understand your environment and understand your resources. the first thing to do is ask for hands, ask for help. you know, one of the great things about the way i was trained, i'm an anaesthesiologist at stanford university, and one of the ways i was trained was to always ask for help, it's never a sign of weakness. so, i immediately asked for that help.
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then, when we started cpr, after we realised there was no pulse, we started cpr. and when i noticed he wasn't breathing, that's when i did the mouth—to—mouth, which is the kiss of life, yes. and, of course, unbeknownst to you, all of this was being filmed so we can see what happened. yes, yes. yes, a crazy part for sure. that's what's really funny, is if i put the board down when i first felt really tired, i would have been out of the frame and this would be a story that would be on page 99 or something. when i first was showing it to people, they were like, oh over here? no, kind of like exactly right in the middle. it's purely by happenstance. and then it captured such high—quality, it is mind blowing. and you thought he was dead because there was no response on the beach, even when the paramedics arrived, they took him
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away in the ambulance. and what happened in the ambulance, max? apparently they shocked me three times on the beach and i didn't come back so they brought their own defibrillators and shocked me three times and they didn't come back. in the ambulance they shocked me three more times and i came back after the sixth shock. iremembercoming to and a guy kind of peering over me and he asked me did i know what happened. i said, yes, ithink i pulled the mask off and i said, i think i had a heart attack. i said i'm so embarrassed. he was like, embarrassed? you just came back from ventricular defibrillation. you should be excited! i was like yeah, but i have this crush on this woman and it's embarrassing. then i asked if they cut my wetsuit off. six times they did that, then finally you come back to life. i mean that is...
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for me that makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end and makes me want to burst into tears, i don't know what it must be like for you two. that's what i did when i found out he was alive, i burst into tears. tell our audience in a little bit more detail, andi, how madly you have fallen in love with each other. you know, what i noticed when i watched him in the hospital, i noticed these amazing wonderful kind people who came to see him and had these genuine connections with him. i said to his oldest friend, wow there is sure a lot of people that want to help. he said, andi, you're not even seeing half the people that would do anything for him. there are a line of people he's helped over the years who were waiting for the chance to help him. you don't see that every day. and i watched how he treated people and how respectful and kind he was to everybody around
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him, and i really fell for him then. when i was in the hospital after my surgery, i think she came and visited me, and i said, hey, you know, who wants to be with a guy whojust had a heart attack? i don't think i put it quite as politely as that, but i said who wants to be with a guy who has a bleeping heart attack! she said no, this is where i want to be. it sounds corny but my heart was healing from the inside. andi traynor and max montgomery. here in the uk, only 22% of people say they would be confident in performing cpr on a stranger. so we're going to show you exactly how you do it with philippa hobson, senior cardiac nurse from the british heart foundation. she's going to demonstrate how to try to save someone in cardiac arrest.
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firstly explain the difference between a heart attack and a cardiac arrest. with a cardiac arrest they have no pulse and they are not reading, at least not normally. that's when you would, if you can, perform cpr? that's right. they are unresponsive and not breathing so it is vital you call for help. why is it so important to know what you are doing? did somebody who has had a cardiac arrest, if cpr is not started within a few minutes they will die so unless you do that their risk of survival is nonexistent and with each minute that passes that diminishes even more so it's better to do something rather than nothing, rather than just standing there and not knowing what to do. anything is
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better but calling for help is paramount. can you talk exactly through what people should do? your safety is paramount so quickly look around yourself because you don't wa nt around yourself because you don't want there to be two casualties, and check whether that person is conscious. shake them, hello, are you 0k? conscious. shake them, hello, are you ok? if they don't respond, the next thing is to see whether they are breeding. this takes a matter of seconds, you tilt back ahead, lift up seconds, you tilt back ahead, lift up the chin, and simultaneously watching to see if the chest is rising and if you can feel any breath on your cheek. then we do 30 chest compressions and two rescue breaths. put your hands in the centre of the chest, link your fingers, then start. five, six,
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seven, eight... and you are doing that to the rhythm of staying alive? yes, up to 30, then go back to the airway, tilt, pinch the nose and open the mouth. do two quick breaths then go back to the chest and do cpr again and keep doing that until help arrives. shall i have again and keep doing that until help arrives. shall! have a again and keep doing that until help arrives. shall i have a quick go? ok so arrives. shall i have a quick go? ok so check for safety because i don't wa nt to so check for safety because i don't want to be a casualty as well. see if there is any response from the person on the floor, then tip the airway back to see if i can feel any breath on my ear. there is no response so breath on my ear. there is no response so i will start cpr. i put my hand in the middle of the chest, in between the nipples, gripped my
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fingers like that. it is really quite a strong effort, isn't it? that's it, try to press down five to six centimetres. five to six centimetres? i feel like i six centimetres. five to six centimetres? ifeel like i am putting a lot of effort into this which is what you have to do and if you break a rib it is which is what you have to do and if you breaka rib it is fine? which is what you have to do and if you break a rib it is fine? yes, people are worried about damaging somebody but if you have a cardiac arrest you are dead unless they have done it. so i put the airway back, pinch the nose and seal my mouth around the mannequin. move my head away, i can see the chest rise. yes. then you carry on with cpr. until they come round or until the
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paramedics arrived ? they come round or until the paramedics arrived? either. you would need help anyway. if the person starts breathing, you need to roll them into the recovery position and make sure their airway is kept open again. then you are still watching to make sure because u nfortu nately if watching to make sure because unfortunately if they have another cardiac arrest you will have to roll them onto their back and start the process again. so it could be quite stressful if you are the person who sees somebody collapse and you think that's what is going on but your advice is what? when you see someone has collapsed in front of you, adrenaline kicks in atjust start cpr am just doing anything is better than nothing. you may save their life. a quick reference to the heart age test you can do online. people over 30 are being urged to take this
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test to find out their heart age. it is on our website now. just put in your age, where you are from, whether you smoke, your weight. why should people do that? because of damage to the arteries so heart attacks and strokes are caused by narrowed arteries either to the heart or the brain and if you have a stroke it can have a devastating effect so the tool is a way of checking to see whether you are at risk. things like your blood pressure, your height and weight, your waist measurements, whether you are overweight, physical activity. all of those things are important contributing risk factors. all of those things are important contributing risk factorsm all of those things are important contributing risk factors. if you are 49 like me and your heart age is 54, there are things you can change your lifestyle ? 54, there are things you can change your lifestyle? it gives you an idea
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of what they might be, yes. thank you for coming on the programme. coming up... do open relationships work? and are you win one? is lifelong monogamy possible, or even desirable? a new bbc drama tonight examines the issues, so we are going to do the same, just after 10am. if you are in an open relationship, i know that is a big thing to reveal to the nation, and you want to describe how it works, put your phone number in the e—mail. britain's biggest ticket reselling website has been forced to reveal all its charges upfront because of action taken by the advertising standards authority. viagogo will now display ticket prices including vat and booking fees learly in its advertising and on its website. earlier this year the watchdog reprimanded the compnay for misleading customers by adding fees at the last moment. 0ur entertainment reporter chi chi izundu has been following every step of the secondary ticketing story. a lot has been happening with ticket
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resale sites, reminders of how we got here. in 2016 hmrc said it would investigate the practices of the four a guest resale ticketing sites including viagogo. then the competition marketing authority in the same year said they were launching an investigation over concerns that those websites were breaking consumer law. in 2018, we skip to the advertising standards authority, who said viagogo in particular were violating practices when it came to pricing. they were doing this drip pricing effect which means you would get a price for the ticket but as you continue through the process they would add vat, booking fees and delivery fees so the price at the end would be much higher than the one you saw at the start and that needed to stop. in
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may, ed sheeran was on tour and said he was cancelling more than 10,000 tickets bought by fans from viagogo, and when they turned up at the venue he said by my tickets at face value, then go back to viagogo and get a refund. then come may again, we have the digital minister saying viagogo... and i quote" do not choose viagogo, they are the worst". then the competition and marketing authority on friday just then the competition and marketing authority on fridayjust gone announced it was taking viagogo to the high court because it didn't believe it had changed as much as it should have done. it was saying it was not telling people about the seats they were getting, it was still making it difficult to get a refund, it was still not telling people who were selling the actual tickets though a lot of stuff has gone on. in particular with viagogo.
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so ed sheeran, he cancelled more than 10,000 tickets bought on viagogo? yes, and he's one of the most high—profile stars to have done this. we were talking to him about his new documentary, and he says basically he wants the system to be fairforfans. basically he wants the system to be fair for fans. i think the secondary ticketing market works if it is fair to fans. what's great about some of the ticketing things now is it is very much a fan—led thing. i think the problem with the secondary ticketing market when we deal with things with the tour recently and not letting people in with viagogo ticket is people were buying them specifically just to ticket is people were buying them specificallyjust to mark them up. there will always be people that buy tickets to go to gigs that cannot
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go. you should be able to have a platform where you can get tickets to other people but for a fair price of what they paid for it. it's not fair for the fan, i don't think. would you cap it at 10%? 10%? the mark up? yeah... i don't really know. i don't really know, that would be... i'm not... the mark up? yeah... but if 10% seemed way over the odds then... i think itjust needs to seem fair. if you bought a ticket for £60 and they're selling it for £300, that's unfair. if you bought a ticket for £60 and it's £80, then, yeah... that's not 10% though, is it?! just to clarify, £60 ticket is £10.
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we get the gist his point. yes, he just wanted to be fair for fans. so the advertising standards authority have said they will no longer be pursuing viagogo over this price structure and viagogo have said they are pleased the advertising standards authority has dropped sanctions against them. it says it remains committed to providing clear information to its customers. we will talk more about this after ten and clock. let's get the latest weather update — with matt. lovely start for some people. as you can see in the lake district earlier this morning. somewhere sunshine but others on the grey side. the weather will change across the uk. japan at the moment, a major typhoon push on shore. this will stir up the atmosphere across the northern hemisphere setting off a chain of reactions of the of atmosphere which will have an impact on our shores in the second half of this week. now,
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cloud in south—west england to the south west scotland. that will produce patchy rain and drizzle. neither side sunshine this morning but more cloud towards east anglia and the south—east through yesterday and the south—east through yesterday and a small chance of one or two isolated showers. it will stay dry and sunny for some, the channel islands looking final day but towards the south—west, part of wales, the west midlands, it may see grey and gloomy particularly on the scene down. north—west england continues to brighten up. —— it will seem continues to brighten up. —— it will seem down. 0ne continues to brighten up. —— it will seem down. one or two showers in the far west highlands and hebrides but much of scotland stays dry with some sunshine as template is in the teens after what was a fairly chilly start —— but temperatures. the cloud will break upa —— but temperatures. the cloud will break up a bit more which will lead toa break up a bit more which will lead to a chilly night for some in northern england in particular. a chance of thundery showers toast to invent. you will notice on our
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temperature charts it is northern england and northern ireland where the cooler air will start tomorrow. sunrise is now well after six for many and sunset is closer to eight. four minutes of sunshine lost every day. a bit of cloud to start the wednesday in the shetland. brighter weather in eastern scotland and much of england and wales with more sunshine expected. a small chance of heavy showers in kent. and western scotla nd heavy showers in kent. and western scotland and northern ireland will turn cloudy with outbreaks of rain. that chain of events occurring from what is happening injapan. it is influencing the jet stream which will have more of a meandering pattern across the north atlantic. dipping to the south of the uk, which has not been much over the past few months. to the south of the uk, low pressure building, that generally means outbreaks of rain like the way through thursday, friday and the weekend. thursday,
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treated with a pinch of salt, some dry weather but a scattering of showers possible especially in the northern half of the uk, most persistent in scotland and it will feel much cooler than it has done lately. goodbye for now. hello it's tuesday, it's ten o'clock, i'm victoria derbyshire. a year on from the government introducing 30 free hours of childcare for parents of three and four year olds in england — why are nearly half of nursery providers saying it's had a negative financial impact on their business? we are seeing closures almost on a daily basis. settings that have been around for 20—25 years that frankly have just said that the new offer, the 30 hour funded places offer is just the final nail in the coffin. we'll speak to childcare providers in a moment. if you are a parent who benefits from this new initiative, let us know. do open relationships work? a new bbc drama, wanderlust, starting tonight features a couple who decide monogamy is not for them. we've decided to start seeing other people... ..at the same time.
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different people... ..but still together. i wanted to give you an opportunity to ask us any questions or... feedback? we'll speak to two people who are in open relationships about why it works for them. if you're in one, or used to be, get in touch and let us know how it worked for you. and how to tackle the gangs and organised crime networks who exploit children to sell drugs. we'll speak to a former drug dealer who was one of those kids. he started selling drugs aged 13. good morning, it's10am. here's joanna gosling is in the bbc newsroom with a summary of the days news. after months of arguments over antisemitism, labour's ruling body meets this lunchtime to try to lay the issue to rest. they'll vote on adopting the full international definition of antisemitism, which was partially incorporated into the party's code of conduct injuly. labour leaderjeremy corbyn insists there's no place for any kind of prejudice within the party. here's our political correspondent ben wright.
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jewish groups were appalled and loud in their protests, as were many labour mps and peers. injuly, labour's ruling body, the nec, decided not to reproduce all 11 examples of anti—semitism, as defined by the international holocaust remembrance alliance. following the outcry, the party decided to consult further on its code of conduct over the summer. which was dominated by the toxic row over anti—semitism within the labour party. and the leadership's inability to deal with it decisively. in recent weeks, trade unions and leading labourfigures have urged the party to act. on sunday, the former labour leader gordon brown added his voice, saying the ihra definition should be adopted unanimously, unequivocally and immediately. the shadow chancellor, john mcdonnell, has said the full definition and its examples should be accepted. but indicated the party may also spell out that criticism of israel and its policies
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would still be legitimate. mps from all parties return to westminster today, with brexit set to dominate the agenda. theresa may's plan for trading with the eu after brexit is under assault from many in her party and the eu has severe doubts about it, too. with little time left to negotiate our exit from the eu, politics is set for a very turbulent autumn. ben wright, bbc news, westminster. paul pester, the embattled chief executive of britain's crisis—hit tsb bank, is to step down, after seven years in charge. tsb was hit by a massive it failure, which saw tens of thousands of customers struggling to make transactions and see their balances. the bank, which still faces problems, says there is still "work to do" to achieve full stability. the head of scotland yard, cressida dick, has called for technology and social media firms to make "vital evidence" available to police in minutes.
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the metropolitan police commissioner was commenting after it emerged that detectives in hampshire were unable to access the facebook account of a man suspected of murdering a 13—year—old girl. public health england say a new online tool has revealed that as many as four out of five people have hearts which are more damaged then they should be, given their age. people over 30 are being urged to use the test to check whether they're at risk of having a heart attack or stroke. they're asked questions about their lifestyle and then the tool generates their "heart age". a heart age older than your actual age can indicate an increase health risk. nearly half of nursery providers in england say the government's scheme to provide 30 hours of free childcare has had a negative financial impact on their business. the free care for three— and four—year—olds, introduced this time last year, has proved popular, with 95% of eligible parents using the scheme. the government say they're researching the cost of childcare, but that the majority of providers have been happy to take part in the scheme. an american football player,
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who protested against racial injustice by kneeling during the us national anthem, has been revealed as the face of nike's new advertising campaign. colin kaepernick first protested in august 2016. other players followed his lead by kneeling during the anthem, leading to criticism from president trump. kaepernick hasn't played since 2017 and is currently suing the nfl, claiming he is being kept out of the league because of his part in the protests. that's a summary of the latest bbc news, more at 10.30am. thank you for your many messages. molly on facebook about anti—semitism and the meeting today of labour's ruling body, whether they will adopt the full definition with all its caveats and that modifying anything. jeremy corbyn will not adopt the full definition of anti—semitism and it will finish him and momentum. thejewish
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community will never give up and it will end badly for corbyn. michael says i am a jewish will end badly for corbyn. michael says i am ajewish labour member and have never known a more welcoming group. racists exist in all walks of life that it is factually inaccurate to say labour has a problem with anti—semitism in any greater weight than any other party. there are certainly more racists on the right than on the left. labour has a problem with israel's, which is entirely legitimate. we should adopt the full definition for the sake of admin but to include a clause which allows criticism of israel. men like benjamin netanyahu allows criticism of israel. men like benjamin neta nyahu gives allows criticism of israel. men like benjamin netanyahu givesjewish people a bad name. wherever it takes place on racism should not take place. its criticism of israel where apartheid is taking place and disenfranchisement of an entire people of their identity. why is there such a concerted attack on such criticism? there such a concerted attack on such criticism ? vic there such a concerted attack on such criticism? vic on twitter says it beats me why corbyn doesn't have aggressive social media savvy pr to own this argument. that and putting antiracism and plausible criticism
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of brexit in a better position. he is as weak as michael foot at the moment. martin on facebook says, we have an open sex life. and have had that since we got together at 17. mainly with friends. great from, all discrete and no one gets hurt. melissa and john lannemar say we are ina melissa and john lannemar say we are in a truly open relationship, we both bisexual and are getting together we agreed we would both be free to meet and have sex with other partners, male orfemale. sometimes we also meet individuals or couples together as a couple. this means we are able to satisfy our sexual appetites fully. thanks you for those being so candid. we will talk about open relationships in the next half an hour. if you are in one or you want to join the conversation please do. we will talk to two people who are in open relationships. let's get some sport now... england head coach trevor bayliss has told the bbc that it's "almost impossible" to replace "one of the game's greatest players".
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he was paying tribute to alaistair cook — as he readies himself for his final test for england against india at the end of the week. and cook's stats speak for themselves. since his debut in 2006 played in 160 tests, he's england's highest ever test run scorer, one of only six batsmen to have scored over 12,000 runs, he's scored more test centuries than any other englishmen, and has made more catches than any other england player. five—time champion roger federer has crashed out of the us open this morning, stunned by the unseeded australian john millman. federer, looking for a 21st grand slam title looked out of sorts in the heat and humidty and was beaten in four sets. 0ur tennis reporter david law was watching at flushing meadows. frankly, he looked his 37 years of age tonight. he has been trying to win this tournament for the last ten yea rs win this tournament for the last ten years unsuccessfully, having won it five times before. federer started
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well enough, won the first set 6—3 but then suddenly his game just disintegrated and he only got 31% of his serbs and the second said he was missing balls he would never normally miss —— 31% of his service. he did serve for the third set at 5-4, he did serve for the third set at 5—4, didn't take his opportunity and that was the theme of the match all the way through, just kept on missing shots that he wouldn't normally miss. his opponent, john millman, 55 in the world, from australia, was superb and deserved the win. he got it on a second successive tie—break in the fourth set and federer departed the scene wondering what happened tonight. formula 0ne's new golden boy, lando norris, says he has no problem with being compared with lewis hamilton. he's been promoted by mclaren and will become britain's youngest driver in f1 next season. this was him doing donuts in his go—kart as a kid, as he follows a similar path to the reigning f1 world champion. i'm pretty comfortable with it. i
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think it's a pretty cool into how. pretty amazing to be compared to. —— cool thing to have. i'm not him. i wa nt to cool thing to have. i'm not him. i want to shake my own career to the bestjob i want to shake my own career to the best job i can. want to shake my own career to the bestjob i can. he could be going on for five champions —— bestjob i can. he could be going on forfive champions —— championships soon. forfive champions —— championships soon. it is pretty big boots to fill to be compared with him. i think it's a nice thing to listen to and get told. but i'm still a long way of getting four world championships. anything near that. it's going to be a long journey until i get to be as good as him or as decorated as him. but i will be doing my best. hopefully i can one day make it to four world championships. we wish him all the best. leicester tigers head coach matt 0'connor has left the club with immediate effect afterjust one game of the season. he departed 48 hours after the tigers were hammered by exeter on saturday in their premiership opener. assistant coach geordan murphy has been put in temporary charge. that's all the sport for now.
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thank you. 12 months ago, the government introduced 30 free hours of childcare for parents of three and four year olds in england. one year on — nearly half of nursery providers say it's had a negative financial impact on their business. that's according to a survey commissioned and carried out by the pre—school learning alliance and mumsnet. it suggests many childcare providers are struggling to make ends meet and are being forced to pass on some of the extra costs to parents, and the situation is so bad for some that they've gone out of business or say they may have to, if things carry on the way they are. joining me to talk about this neil leitch who is the chief executive of the pre—school learning alliance — they have carried out the research. also toby evans, the director at sparking stars, a pre—school who used to have three nurseries but as a direct consequence of this scheme he had to close one them in february, this year. and louise felstead
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who is the director of the mallards wood daycare nursery. welcome. i would like to start with you, why have you had to close one? chronic underfunding in short, victoria. are you saying per hour the government is not paying enough to cover your costs ? government is not paying enough to cover your costs? absolutely, so they are citing they are spending more than ever on childcare which may be true but on a per pupil level they are not. it says they are paying for childcare, not necessarily everything else but childcare, they are covering that. they are not, no. what is it in pounds and pence? we receive £3 77 per hour to provide childcare which is to my knowledge one of the lowest
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in the country. our cost of provision is around £4 30 per hour. 0k, and do you suck that up or pass it onto the parents? we ask for a volu nta ry it onto the parents? we ask for a voluntary contribution from parents of 60p per hour which has to be classed as voluntary but as a group of providers we ask for is the word free he removed and replaced with subsidised or that the government adequately funds this policy. we had sufficient children on the books to operate, but the income we were receiving from the local authority was simply not sufficient to remain viable. neal, do you think people watching will have sympathy? i'm not
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sure, but the reality is this is the fa ct. sure, but the reality is this is the fact. we are in a crisis position. when you have four out of ten providers saying they may not be here in the next academic year, i think it is time to sit up. toby is a perfect example, he's had to close nurseries. how many have closed? we don't have statistics... then how do you know there are nurseries up and down the country closing? i received telephone and e—mail messages. 90% of 1—person's children received these funded places, she now has a debt of £88,000, basically going to close. i have figures in terms of our own membership going by the wayside, unprecedented. so this
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isn't imagination, it is reality. louise, how have you coped at your place? we have had to make sure we can ask parents to top up. for the first time in16 can ask parents to top up. for the first time in 16 years last year i asked parents to pay for meals and snacks and that is a challenge for us. year on year to cope with pensions and rate increases and rent increases, we have had to look at fee increases to cater for the funding shortage for three to five—year—olds. funding shortage for three to five-year-olds. what is the solution? the government need to address the fact the underfunding is significant and when parents come to us and say can we take up the free offer, it is offer. redbridge two years ago gave £319 per hour, now give £4 70, but we have to top that
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off. the reality is we are consta ntly off. the reality is we are constantly struggling. neil, if the government renamed it as subsidised childcare, the practical implication of that is that parents would come knowing they have to contribute something? yes, but the reality is about 50% funding of some of our european counterparts. there is no denying the cost of childcare is high. if they argue it is free, i suggest they should pay the right amount. you cannot make an offer a few weeks before an election, attracts people to vote for you, then leave the sector to work out how it will deliver your agenda, it is unfairand how it will deliver your agenda, it is unfair and dishonest. they have to pay the right amount of money, thatis to pay the right amount of money, that is what they said they would do. i think it is essential the
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children who are most in need of childcare who are the ones that will be the most adversely affected. toby pointed out he's in an area of deprivation. the reality is the children who are suffering as a result of the 30 hours, the parents on that borderline of deprivation, and they need child care the most. and they need quality childcare. i wa nt and they need quality childcare. i want to ask if the government can fund childcare appropriately. we wa nt fund childcare appropriately. we want to provide a champagne service but not for a lemonade price. thank you for coming on the programme. this evening a new bbc drama begins which asks the age old question — is lifelong monogamy possible, or even desirable? wanderlust depicts the story ofjoy and alan richard who, after years of happy marriage, had to put their sex life on hold afterjoy was in a cycling accident.
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suddenly their sex life is altered and both find themselves attracted to other people. but rather than end the marriage, it's suggested they enter into an open relationship. here's a taster of the drama. for once in our lives, we can do whatever we want and see what happens! i'm not sure i understand what it is you're getting at. we've decided to start seeing other people. at the same time... different people... ..but still together. to give you the opportunity to ask us any questions or... ..feedback? can i interest you in a drink? i've been feeling really guilty, ever since. so have i. to me, right now, you look the opposite of guilty. i'm innocent. this is not what i thought therapy was going to be like. how do we come back from this? i am nowhere near having had enough. i love you. let's talk now to anita cassidy — she's been in an open relationship for three years... dani tonks, who is in a long—term open
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relationship. rosie wilby — author of is monogamy dead who tried an open relationship but said it didn't work for her. lucy beresford, psychotherapist and relationship expert, author of happy relationships. dani, how do you describe your open relationship? it is secure and we have to talk a lot about everything. anita, how do you describe your relationship?” feel secure and liberated but also all too often openness on television is all about sex, but in my experience openness is about communication and talking and sharing ethical feelings with each other. so you are saying an open
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relationship in reality is not all about going off and having sex with other people? absolutely, it's about learning, sharing experiences and getting amazing communication with each other. how does it work in practice, dani? you are doing it all the time... sorry, i mean in practical terms, so do you live in the same place as the person you are being the open relationship with? no, so this person lives in ireland andi no, so this person lives in ireland and i live in london but i'm also open to having a relationship in the same city. it can feel uncomfortable sometimes, say if there are ex—partners there or other people you are dating, and that doesn't necessarily mean sexually either, maybe flirting and things like that. if something comes up, i want to
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feel comfortable and so should my partner that we can communicate those feelings. where is it coming from? am i feeling jealous? those feelings. where is it coming from? am ifeeling jealous? do i need reassurance? what are my needs? anita, have you experienced jealousy? absolutely, it is a myth you can be in an open relationship and never experienced any feeling of jealousy. the important thing is how you feel with —— deal with those feelings. because you said you felt secure, that was the word that let out to me. i feel secure in the ability to deal with feelings that are uncomfortable. i feel secure in my relationship and myself and my ability to cope with difficult feelings. everyone is smiling and agreeing. certainly within my
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clinical work, people agreeing. certainly within my clinicalwork, people phoning in talking about how hard it is to be ina talking about how hard it is to be in a fully open relationship. what do you mean fully? to be giving it permanently, not just a do you mean fully? to be giving it permanently, notjust a one—off experiment which may or may not lead to the break—up of that relationship. we would call that an affair. for a lot of people that is their transition relationship before quitting their existing relationship. from my perspective, what i see in the work i do and the people i counsel is there are too many paranoias and emotions, feeling of notjust in many paranoias and emotions, feeling of not just in security but that fundamental jealousy that kicks of not just in security but that fundamentaljealousy that kicks in which is very common to all of us because that's how we are raised, we recognise where our rivals are so i disagree this can never really work long—term. disagree this can never really work long-term. all of these problems happen within monogamous
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relationships. i was breaking up every few years just because the intimacy had sadly died away and breaking up seemed the only option, and that to me seemed a shame sol we nt and that to me seemed a shame sol went ona and that to me seemed a shame sol went on a personal voyage and wrote a book called is monogamy dead, spoke to people communicating brilliantly and i learned how to communicate in my now monogamous relationships from people who were openin relationships from people who were open in their relationships because you are so open in their relationships because you are so good at it. tell us how to do it because we all want to learn! that's the thing, i don't really know what i'm doing... but you and anita have both talked about the skills of communication, do you just mean saying what you feel?m is taking risks... that is again though. it is not. when a child
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plays, it is so innocent and true and that is bringing it into adults. i will be interested to see in the television programme whether this level of communication can get hold back into the monogamous relationship because what is disappointing is the idea you can only find a heightened level of communication within an open relationship. i am thrilled to bits you are able to have fulfilling and open relationships because ultimately that is what i would want for most people, as long as everyone is on the same page. my observation is on the same page. my observation is in relationships something kicks off, there isjealousy and unless the two of you are on the same page, the two of you are on the same page, the open relationship won't work and i would love to see the same level of open, honest and insightful communication can happen within a monogamous relationship. which is totally what i'm doing now because in my survey that i did as research for my book... that is the second
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time you have mentioned that, that is enough! sorry, i did a survey asking what counts is cheating and the answers were quite surprising. obviously there was sex and kissing book answers like falling in love with somebody else scored incredibly highly. something we cannot potentially control. even thinking about somebody else, staying up all night talking to somebody, so we all have very different definitions of what that means. many of us don't discuss it well so it's brilliant we are having this discussion and it might prompt monogamous couples to talk about their boundaries and communicate better. in an e-mail, i have been in an open relationship for ten years. for into your relationship needs complete honesty and strength. it works for us but wouldn't for others. we love that we
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can wouldn't for others. we love that we ca n ex press wouldn't for others. we love that we can express our love for each other in onjudgmental can express our love for each other in on judgmental environment. robert texts, we enjoy our open relationships very much, we bring who we like home any time really. i can't see any problem when everyone is having a good time and enjoying life. this viewer says, i was engaged in a long—term seven—year 93v engaged in a long—term seven—year gay relationship with my partner and we tried an open relationship to spice things up, ultimately it didn't work and we split up. i can't decide whether it ruined my relationship or it was dead anyway. i would never recommend an open relationship to anyone. john says, we are a gay male couple, we have been together 20 years. a year ago we went through a bad time and i decided to admit i needed to have a relationship with someone else but i still love him and we will grow old together. at first it was difficult, eventually he agreed with rules and now we are never better together. i have a relationship with a married
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family man who i see every week and a younger guy of 39 who is bisexual. everything is never better between us then now. anita, a few years ago you were married, is that right? tell us what happened. that was wanting to experience a broader support network for myself and making changes after a decade of being monogamous and opening up my marriage so that i could meet new people and explore my evolving sexuality. i had realised i was bisexual as i reached my late 30s. that was such a powerful experience for me in terms of learning about myself, developing a whole set of tools which, in my monogamous relationship like could not develop. how has it changed your life? absolutely. all for the better as well. self—confidence, understanding, emotional intelligence, all of these things have come out of notjust openness but about a desire to learn and
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understand myself and other people better. do you understand how some people hearing yourself and anita talked like this is absolutely alien to many couples? —— talk like this. that is why you have got to come out of your echo chamber. a lot of my community of friends, we experience open relationships, monogamy and we try different things. for me to come out of my echo chamber and go back home on north where people are, like, what is your relationship and explain it to my parents. how do they react? they want to listen and learn. as long as i am happy and healthy edit is not toxic, they are happy and they are fine with that —— and it is not. where are your pa rents ? and it is not. where are your parents? staffordshire. there will be people in staffordshire and further north in open relationships. of course! all around the north! it is likely an alien thing still. people think, as we were saying at the very beginning that it is all about sex and it isn't. it is a bigger support network out there. some people will say, you say it's
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not all about sex but it's not. that can often be the trigger. people are thinking this is the need that isn't being met within this current relationship and i need to change it. for me, it's always about making sure both parties, however many people are in your network, on the same page. too often i am working with people who are not fully committed to it and they are the ones suffering from jealousy. ciaran says there is no such thing as an open relationship. there isjust friends with benefits. stop justifying yourself, you are not trying to convince anyone but yourself. relationships are about commitment. when sex is involved, your commitment cannot be divided.” have heard these comments before and it reminds me of being at school, that kind of stuff. it feels really immature way of looking at open relationships, and alternative of having a relationship with someone. somebody who doesn't leave their name, just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should do something. open relationships cause misery and psychological
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mayhem. so does monogamy and marriage. yes! there are all sorts of ways people can cause harm to each other in any sort of relationship framework. openness and monogamy are no different, they are not one or the other, they are just different ways of doing the same thing. relating to each other. in the old days, when we lived until we we re the old days, when we lived until we were 45, the idea that you could stay married and faithful to the same person was a stay married and faithful to the same person was a complete no—brainer. now that you might live to 105, people are having to really think about do i want to be with the same person that i met when i was 22? for some people, it will be harder. as this drama tonight shows, there are definitely ways in which you can hone, celestial communication. it might be in an open relationship. i would never stand in the way of a couple that wanted to do that —— finesse your communication. i just worry that innate jealousies and envy and issues around self worth do start to
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cripple that particular type of arrangement. i have seen that too often to make it, for me, feel that it could ever work long—term. often to make it, for me, feel that it could ever work long-term. we talk about it as though it's a modern idea. in fact, if you look backin modern idea. in fact, if you look back in history, open relationships we re back in history, open relationships were the norm and then monogamy was actually societal constructed to control female sexuality. it's a patriarchal construct and it's interesting how it's the woman in this drama, as is often the case in real life, who suggests the open relationship. and she is a therapist as well! my ex-wife decided we were in an open relationship during our marriage but unfortunately she failed to discuss this with me. that's not a proper open relationship. that is having an affair. he did put lol on the end. many gay men have open relationships and they have done that for decades. the statistics on their divorce rates, they are the lowest divorce rates, they are the lowest divorce rate of all. they are some of the most loyal and faithful and devoted couples who had been together for many decades that i know.” couples who had been together for many decades that i know. i am old—fashioned. if i am in love with
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someone, old—fashioned. if i am in love with someone, wouldn't watch to flood, cosy u p someone, wouldn't watch to flood, cosy up or go to the cinema with another man. having the privilege of being in love and having a relationship is sacred. of. —— i wouldn't want to flirt. no time to come back on that even though there was an intake of breath. thank you all. the new bbc one drama wanderlust begins this evening at 9pm. still to come. we'll be looking at what can be done to clamp down on gangs and crime networks exploiting children to supply drugs — is it time for a national fightback? we will speak to one of those kids who started selling drugs aged 13. britain's biggest ticket reselling website has been forced to reveal all its charges upfront. will this be enough to ensure fairness for fans? time for the latest news. here's joanna gosling. the bbc news headlines this morning. after months of arguments over anti—semitism, labour's ruling body will meet this lunchtime to try to put the issue to rest. the national executive
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committee will decide whether to fully adopt the international holocaust remembrance alliance's definition of anti—semitism. it was partially incorporated into their rules injuly but the shadow chancellorjohn mcdonnell has urged the committee to go further. paul pester, the embattled chief executive of britain's crisis—hit tsb bank, is to step down after seven years in charge. tsb was hit by a massive it failure, which saw tens of thousands of customers struggling to make transactions and see their balances. the bank, which still faces problems says there is still "work to do", to achieve full stability. the head of scotland yard, cressida dick, has called for technology and social media firms to make "vital evidence" available to police in minutes. the metropolitan police commissioner was commenting after it emerged that detectives in hampshire were unable to access the facebook account of a man suspected of murdering a 13—year—old girl. universities are urging the government to introduce new rules allowing international students to work in the uk for up to two years after graduation.
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under the proposal, the universities would sponsor their graduates to look for work without any restriction on the type ofjob they can apply for. the government says it already has variety of routes to allow international graduates to stay in the uk. nearly half of nursery providers in england say the government's scheme to provide 30 hours of free childcare has had a negative financial impact on their business. the "free" care for three— and four—year—olds, introduced this time last year, has proved popular, with 95% of eligible parents using the scheme. the government say they're researching the cost of childcare but that the majority of providers have been happy to take part in the scheme. japan's weather agency says the strongest typhoon to hit the country in 25 years has made landfall with winds of more than 135 miles an hour. the agency has warned of high waves, flooding and mudslides. that's a summary of the latest bbc news. here's some sport now.
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five—time champion roger federer has crashed out of the us open this moring, stunned by unseeded australian john millman. and it was back—to—back shocks under the lights on arthur ashe stadium, as earlier, maria sharapova was beaten in straight sets by spain's carla suarez navarro. england head coach trevor bayliss has told the bbc that it's "almost impossible" to replace "one of the game's greatest players" as alastair cook gets set for his final test outing against india at the oval later this week. and lando norris says he's happy with comparisons to lewis hamilton as he's set to become the youngest formula one driver in british history. that's all the sport for now. earlier on the programme, we heard that britain's biggest ticket reselling website has been forced to reveal all its charges upfront because of action taken by the advertising standards authority.
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viagogo will now display ticket prices including vat and booking fees in its advertising and on its website. earlier this year, the watchdog reprimanded the company for misleading customers by adding fees at the last moment. by the way, viagogo is still facing court action from the competition and markets authority. let's talk now to matthew wilson from the advertising standards authority, adam webb is from fanfair alliance which is a pressure group trying to make resale ticketing fair for fans and karl lee, who tried to buy tickets for his daughters last week to see panic at the disco, only to find out the gig was immediately sold out and the tickets were already on viagogo for vastly inflated prices. matt, despite viagogo backing down on what you wanted, those inflated prices are still going to be able to happen. they are. today's announcement is good news for consumers, they have significant changes to their website in the way that pricing is put there. there are
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wider concerns, the competition market authority are taking court action. there are wider concerns about consumer protection law being broken but from our perspective we have secured significant changes to the way pricing is on their website. instead of this incremental fees that are added as you go along, the price you see at the start is inclusive of vat and compulsory booking fees. that is clear at the start so you don't get stung at the till and go through this process which is unfair and misleading to find out at the end that you are suddenly paying a lot more than you wa nted suddenly paying a lot more than you wanted to. it is a warning to business that our advertising rules apply equally online and to their website and we will clamp down on misleading practice in that space. do you think it was because you threatened that this would be referred to the national trading standards that there would be some kind of investigation that that is why they backed down? it is difficult to know exactly why viagogo have started playing ball but we are pleased they have, that is positive. we have referred to
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national trading standards and invoked other sanction such as removing some of their pay per click ads and we placed our own ads in and around the search results for them highlighting the practice. those together have brought them to task and made them comply with our rulings. viagogo say they remain committed to providing clear information to customers. are you satisfied? no, not really. the thing with concert tickets now, the real fans are having the issues. they are wanting to go to the concerts. my daughters were trying to get their friends, a group of eight of them in total to go to the concert. the concert sold out within two seconds, supposedly end within two minutes they already have tickets available on viagogo for standing to give my daughter was after, which was £51 is the standard price. they were up on viagogo for £147. it's wrong. they encourage people to sell tickets for
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more, not fa'asavalu, why can't we have ticket companies that sell them for face value —— not face value. charge a couple of percent, not 100%, 200% more. it is unfair on genuine fans that can't get to see their heroes as they say, like my daughter. which is where, potentially, adam webb from fanfare alliance comes in. there is a lot going on in this market at the moment. it is a curious time. the services that karl is talking about, they are in the process of coming to market. ticketmaster last month now said they were closing their secondary sites. they are the biggest company. they will stop supporting fa'asavalu resell. if you genuinely can't go to a show, you can recoup your losses —— they will start supporting face value resell. the market is moving towards that direction and that is the secondary market we want to see. on the otherend, the secondary market we want to see. on the other end, artists like ed sheeran, adele, the artists they
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dashed when we are working with, they are trying to communicate better about when tickets are going on sale and where and what terms and conditions on those tickets that will try to prevent them going on to sites like viagogo. as matt pointed out, become addition and markets authority is pursuing legal action against viagogo for, amongst other things, not warning customers that its tickets didn't guarantee entry to an event. that's massive, isn't it? that all came after people who had bought tickets on the website reportedly being turned away from ed sheeran concerts. also being taken to court for potentially breaking consumer protection law, including not telling customers which seat in the venue they will be given or who was selling it, giving misleading information about the availability and popularity of tickets and failing to process refunds. still quite a lot to do. if there is incremental change this is definitely part of it. to draw an analogy, it is like if there was a ticket shop in the high street on oxford street that sold ed sheeran
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tickets as a bona fides agent but outside you have signs which have a sign that says tickets this way. and another shop doesn't declare it is a real resale site and they look like the genuine thing, you find you can't get in and you have to resell your ticket. are we not all aware about secondary ticketing? what they are up to? i sort of fear not, really. we get to that stage of buyer beware, that will be good. google advertising is key because there have been some improvements but because there is no disclosure about what viagogo is on the search advertising, that is clearly the first step on the consumerjourney. if that was made either obvious... at the moment i don't feel that google should be taking their advertising, given that they had been taken to court. that would make a big difference. that is interesting, people should refuse
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those adverts because of the problems we have been discussing.- a degree, we they have. we have open conversations with search engines in removing ads that are problematic. but we can only have ads taken down linked to material that is misleading. in terms of having all of their advertisements taken down is not something we have the power to do. 0k, thank you very much for coming on the programme, and thanks for your patience as well. it's one of the newer phenomenons in organised crime. so—called "county lines" drug gangs are groups that organise across several towns or counties, making it hard for the police to crack down on them. children as young as 13 are groomed to sell the drugs and sent out of major cities to the counties. once there, they sell drugs via dedicated mobile phone numbers or "lines". now senior police officers and mps are meeting in parliament today to discuss what can be done
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to tackle the problem. mpjohn woodcock, who's called the meeting, believes a single police force should be tasked with coordinating a national fightback against the problem. we can talk to him now. alsojoining us is matthew norford. he started drug dealing at 13, and after a stint in prison ran a drug dealing operation that sent children across county lines. he now runs one message — a group that works with children at risk ofjoining gangs. also with us is emily van der lely, she is crimestopper‘s national lead on county lines. and we also are joined by sir peter fahy, he spent seven years as the chief constable of greater manchester police and now works for the anti—human trafficking charity hope forjustice. why one police force? the metropolitan police has been given
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national responsibility even though its geography is based in london and you have got this situation where drug gangs are increasingly operating long distance. my constituency, a provincial town, is having usually children running drugs from london, manchester, liverpool. police forces have been historically organised on a strict geographical basis. of course there is cooperation at the moment but the national crime agency, which was set up national crime agency, which was set upfairly national crime agency, which was set up fairly recently, is calling for greater powers to be able to be invested either in itself or a single force and this is one of the chief growing problems, both affecting cities where young people are being coerced into running drugs, and also provincial towns are getting the taste of gang culture which previously they have been able to escape. visit the problem in
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barrow in furness? there's been a big spike in drug deaths and there area number of big spike in drug deaths and there are a number of factors in that but yes, county lines is increasing the problem and police officers are picking up often off the train young people being sent from manchester and liverpool, where traditionally those gangs would not have got into the drug market that exist in barrow. let me bring in matthew. tell us what you were doing age 13. i was selling drugs for a mobile phone, that was me and my friends, thenit phone, that was me and my friends, then it is collated to where i came out ofjail and then it is collated to where i came out of jail and started then it is collated to where i came out ofjail and started grooming younger kids to go to preston first and then blackpool to be in a trap house as we called it, to sell drugs. without naming names, who was
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effectively exploiting you to do that when you were 13? family members and people i knew from around the way growing up that i looked up to. and why did they want to use children? because a child will not get four years in prison for the first offence and will get exposed to what the grown—up is not going to get exposed to. what were you selling? heroin, crack cocaine and cannabis. and you say that after you came out ofjail, you began grooming other young children? yes, because what i got the next time would be doubled so i thought get someone who is younger than you, make them feel loved and that i am there for them and get them to do there for them and get them to do the same thing for me so they get the same thing for me so they get the bad side of it and i reap the rewards. what changed in your life? when i was in prison in 2011, my
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best friend was murdered and i sat down and gave my life to god and for all of those kids i have now done this too, they have gone on to do horrible things sol this too, they have gone on to do horrible things so i need to change it. that's when i came out and started my own company. let me bring in sir peter fahy. is the national crime agency fully equipped to deal with this issue across the country or do you think there should be a new single police force? obviously there is a big debate about the changing nature of crime, whether still having 43 police forces is appropriate, and i think the national crime agency is doing a good job. it is raising awareness of this. the home affairs select committee is looking at whether more funding should be moved locally into
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national agencies. this crosses borders but it's also a local problem, it's about local agencies working together to identify young people. we know about the young people. we know about the young people often, they have previous issues and may have been excluded from school, the sort of issues matthew has described, but what is clear is that there is a level of violence and misery which means it's ethical to get those young people to come forward and give evidence. it's important there is a system of giving support to those victims because they will need long—term rehabilitation and support to turn their lives around. is it a big enough issue, it is for the kids involved obviously, but is it a big enough national issue for extra resources to be dedicated to it first remark is part of a wider issue of human trafficking and modern slavery. it's like the cybercrime issue where the use of
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the internet crosses geographical linesjohn woodcock has the internet crosses geographical lines john woodcock has talked about so the exploitation of young people, we have seen sexual exploitation, this is criminal exploitation which means we need to raise awareness and get more local people looking out for this so that people can see the signs. it's about raising awareness as well as increasing the capability of the police and all of the agencies to target the criminal gangs fuelling this. as matthew said, they are using young people because they realise if young people get caught they won't get the same sentence and it creates a difficult issue for the police as to when a young person is evicting or involved in crime so it is good the meeting is taking place and awareness of this is being raised. emily van der lely, do you agree children who are exploited in this way to travel with
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backpacks full of drugs and sell them on behalf of adult gang members are effectively modern slaves? definitely. slavery can happen from one house to the next but u nfortu nately one house to the next but unfortunately young people are being taken from their home towns. u nfortu nately taken from their home towns. unfortunately there are a number of crime types taking place under the banner of county lines as peter has outlined and from our perspective we are concerned about individuals involved, and family and friends linked to those young people. matthew, you were in prison, you lost your brother, you converted to christianity. those circumstances are unique to you. more generally, how would you get kids out of the situation that you were in when you we re situation that you were in when you were 13? show them about what happened to me, but then when i changed it around i had to take help
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and advice, and what my life is now. i'm happy, i own my own company, i'm successful. but who will get to those 13 —year—olds? successful. but who will get to those 13 -year-olds? i have 20 kids mostly everyday coming to a session and that is kids we are preventing from getting into the gang. there's a lot of rehabilitation talk but not enough about prevention so the kids will see what's happening. police are trying to get drugs off the street but what about the kids being groomed? we give them sports, trips, homework and that is a different carrot to what the drug dealers are offering so it is good to give rehabilitation but the start—up prevention level for kids looking up to this. what do you think of that? matthew's point is key. however you organise the police force is important but ultimately there has got to be more investment in
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prevention to give young people who are being brought into trafficking but also to reduce the demand for drugs. in barrow you have this doom of people working on the nuclear submarine programme, and yet next that programme there are 9000 people employed directly there, you have wards where there is crippling poverty. until we can give those people more hope, we are going to unfortunately see the demand for drugs which will be met in one way or another. ok, thank you to all of you. i wonder if i could ask you about a couple of other issues. until recently you were a labour mp and now what? labour independent. i think you resigned because you were unhappy with the way a disciplinary case was being brought against you.
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are you expecting to be deselected by your local labour party? they can't deselect me any more because i am an independent member of parliament. why don't you have a by—election? parliament. why don't you have a by-election? because i was elected only a year ago, under the labour banner but nobody can be in any doubt of my views ofjeremy corbyn at the time. i said on day one of the election campaign i wouldn't make him prime minister. i have to say i was a little surprised they kept me as labour candidate there. but members of the public in barrow in furness will under no illusions as to who they were electing and i would not be sitting here as a member of parliament had i not said that. i am sad to see what is happening to the labour party today and since! happening to the labour party today and since i have left, and there is now a call for many others of my collea g u es now a call for many others of my colleagues who disagree, who are
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sickened by what they see on anti—semitism and the direction the party has gone, who see now people around the leadership who are determined that rules will change, a cultural change, though that they themselves are stopped from freestanding as mps even though their local constituents have put faith in them. the labour party has lost its way. sometimes labour voters in those constituencies might be cross their own elected labour representative for example voted with the government on certain brexit amendments. there's always a plethora ofjudgments brexit amendments. there's always a plethora of judgments on brexit amendments. there's always a plethora ofjudgments on individual mps and they have to make their own judgment as to whether they will follow the party line, whether they will follow what their constituents feel, and they have got to use their ownjudgment but
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feel, and they have got to use their own judgment but we have a representative democracy and the wider issue... is it time for the labour party to split? yes, i believe you have got people in control of the labour party who have changed it fundamentally from what it has always been. ok, we believe it has always been. ok, we believe it there. thanks for your company. back tomorrow at nine o'clock. we have the odd patch of light rain and drizzle. more clout than we saw yesterday for east and south—east england, and behind its good spells of sunshine for and northern ireland. 15—17dc the high for scotla nd
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ireland. 15—17dc the high for scotland and northern ireland, up to 22 for england and wales. overnight fairly quiet. we could see is developing across the far south—east of england and east anglia. elsewhere dry night, and a chilly nights the parts of northern england, northern ireland and northern scotland. some bright and sunny spells with the chance of some showers filtering across eastern coasts. elsewhere, a dry day with highs of between 14 and 21 celsius. this is bbc news. these are the top stories developing at 11: tsb chief paul pester steps down
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after seven years in charge, in the wake of a major it failure at the bank. labour are set for crunch talks, to discuss whether to adopt in full an international definition of anti—semitism following months of acrimony in the party. police are increasingly using powerful artificial intelligence tools in order to solve complex crimes. also this hour — a year on from a government pledge to give 30 hours of free childcare to working parents of three and four—year olds. but according to a charity, the money provided doesn't adequately cover the cost of the sessions. and step on it — cycle enthusiasts ditch their bikes for a different sort of foot—powered vehicle.

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