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tv   Victoria Derbyshire  BBC News  September 12, 2018 9:00am-11:01am BST

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hello, it's wednesday, it's nine o'clock, i'm victoria derbyshire, welcome to the programme six police and crime commissioners in england and wales tell this programme possession of cannabis should not always be a criminal offence. one pcc meets people who run cannabis clubs. i was skeptical before i went into this meeting, what are cannabis clubs? they are breaking the law? what i've heard is they appear to be making a difference in how people don't go on the streets and get targeted, and become more vulnerable, there is regulation. cannabis clubs are places people who grow the drug for their own use come together to smoke it. you can watch our full film at about quarter past nine. conservative mps opposed to theresa may's brexit plan meet to talk about how and when they could force her to stand down as prime minister. as pressure mounts on theresa may, the premise‘s allies dismissed talk
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of leadership challenges. like the british weather, they say it is something you just have to shrug off. and school psychologists say smacking children damages their mental health — and they‘ re calling for it to be banned. there have been a number of studies that have shown, actually, regular smacking has lead to mental health problems, has led to those people being more likely to use violence towards other people. if you're a parent do you agree? hello. welcome to the programme. we're live until 11 this morning. are you a member of an illegal cannabis club? where you go and smoke the cannabis you've grown yourself or smoke the stuff grown by other members of the club? we ask because in a moment we'll bring you our exclusive film where a police and crime commisioner goes and meets cannabis club owners and, afterwards, says he wants a conversation with the home office about whether cannabis
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clubs have a part to play in tackling drugs misuse. use the hashtag #victorialive. if you're emailing and are happy for us to contact you — and maybe want to take part in the programme — please include your phone number in your message. if you text, you'll be charged at the standard network rate. our top story today, conservative mps opposed to theresa may's brexit plans have openly discussed ways of forcing her to step down as prime minister. a number of them told a meeting of the european research group at westminster last night that they'd already submitted letters of no confidence in mrs may's leadership. around 50 mps attended the meeting but some of the leading voices of the eurosceptic movement didn't. let's get more from our political guru norman smith, who's in westminster for us. what is their plan? what do they want? what they want us to stop theresa may from pressing ahead with her chequers plan for brexit. but they haven't quite worked out how to
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stop her. so, some of them are now thinking that they may have to get rid of theresa may. we had a meeting last night, about 50 or so of them, as you say. the key thing was that these were by and large the foot soldiers of brexit, the key players among the ardent brexiteers were not there. people like borisjohnson, jacob rees—mogg, iain duncan smith, all of the key players were not at the meeting. so, this was really more of a howl of despair and anguish from the brexit foot soldiers, because there is a fear that theresa may is absolutely determined to press ahead with chequers. originally, they had hoped that if they had kept battering away at her, she would blink and think again. at the moment, there is no sign of that. now, some of them are thinking, ok, we have to come up with plan b, we will not convince to change her mind so we have to get rid of her. so they are beginning to
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talk, and i think it isjust talk rid of her. so they are beginning to talk, and i think it is just talk at the moment, about how they might be able to remove her. it is an awfully big task. at the moment they seem to be bereft of a clear strategy for doing that. and a clear popular candidate to take over? absolutely. there are lots of them cheering on borisjohnson as the coming man. there are equally many of them that would frankly rather die in a ditch than have borisjohnson as leader. added to which, there are real divisions among brexiteers. they are not a united force. they have their own tension. so whether they could get any agreement is another matter altogether. more broadly, trying to launch a leadership challenge now, in the middle of the brexit negotiations, the most fraught negotiations, the most fraught negotiations, perhaps the most critical negotiations the country has been engaged in for god knows how long, i think they would risk a backlash from ordinary tory members.
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at the moment, theresa may seems safe. but there is no doubt that among some brexiteers they think the only way to stop chequers is to take out theresa may. thank you, norman. let's bring you the rest of the news so let's bring you the rest of the news so far. six police and crime commissioners in england and wales have told this programme they do not want people criminalised for possessing cannabis in every case. six out of 39 pccs say they're open to some form of decriminalisation for recreational use. another six say they're potentially open to it, or that prosecuting people for cannabis use was not a priority. at the moment, people caught with the drug can face a warning or a £90 fine. vladimir putin says russia knows the real identities of the two men accused of carrying out the salisbury nerve agent attack. he said the men were civilians with nothing criminal about them, and he hoped they would come forward and tell their own story. last week theresa may said they were members of russian military intelligence. with us now is our correspondent
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sarah rainsford in moscow — sarah, what is being said there? well, mr putin was speaking on a panel at an economic forum, and this was put to him by state media journalists, a very much setup question. he was speaking whole time with an amused smile on his face, almost mocking the whole situation. his words were interesting. he said russia knows the identity of the two man, he has established who they are and that they have been found, and he said it would be best for all if they appear and explain themselves, tell their own story. he said he expected that would happen in the not too distant future. he even suggested to tvjournalists that perhaps the two men should come forward and come to the media themselves to tell their story. he did say, as you mentioned, that they
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we re did say, as you mentioned, that they were not intelligence agents, that they were in fact, of course, civilians. he said there was nothing special about them, nothing criminal about them. i expect if they do appear in front of the media, that is the narrative that will be given. this follows a whole week in which russian officials and the state—run media here have been pouring scorn on the british accusations and the suggestion that these two men identified by british police are military agents and they are responsible for the poisoning in salisbury. russia has been denying the evidence alt—right, and pouring scorn and mockery. —— denying the evidence out right. school psychologists are calling for smacking to be banned outright because it harms children's mental health. the association of educational psychologists has tabled a motion to the tuc conference calling for physical punishment to be outlawed. hitting children to discipline them is banned in schools, although parents and carers can legally smack children lightly in the home
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if it is "reasonable punishment". legislation aimed at completely banning the smacking of children is currently being considered by the scottish parliament while the welsh government is also moving toward an outright ban. we'll be debating this with a parenting expert and a sociologist later in the programme. america's east coast is bracing itself for one of the worst hurricanes in 30 years. hurricane florence is being described as a "monster" and due to make landfall tomorrow. nearlyi million people have been told to leave their homes. our north america correspondent peter bowes has this report. slow—moving, but potentially deadly. the category four hurricane bearing down on the us east coast is 500 miles wide and likely to make landfall late on thursday. the three states in its path, north and south carolina and virginia, haven't experienced a hurricane of this magnitude in a generation. this storm is a monster. it's big and it's vicious. it is an extremely dangerous,
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life—threatening, historic hurricane. taking heed of the warnings, hundreds of thousands of people have taken to the roads to try to escape the danger areas. others have decided to stay put, buying up essential supplies and boarding up businesses. we have been here for six years, i haven't been through one this strong, so safety first, family and just trying to prepare the house as best as we can right now. president trump has pledged to spare no expense in the government's response. any amounts of money, whatever it takes, we are going to do it. but we are already setup. we have food for days, we have emergency equipment and generators for many days. we should be in great shape. this is the calm before the storm, but officials say they're preparing for a disaster which causes
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widespread damage and loss of life. peter bowes, bbc news. uk workers are more than £800 a year poorer as a result of the global financial crisis, according to calculations by the independent research group on public finances, the institute for fiscal studies. the crisis was sparked ten years ago this week with the collapse of the american bank lehman brothers. the ifs says people now aged in their thirties have been worst affected by the resulting recession, which was the deepest to hit the uk since world war two. the bank of engand governor mark carney said the uk's debt level still caused some concerns. british households have worked hard and paid off a lot of debt. that has been hard for them. they have put the system and themselves in a better position. but the level of debt is still reasonably high after that, there are pockets with quite
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significant debt. so what we get concerned about is those areas taking ona concerned about is those areas taking on a lot more debt. a group of mps is criticising the government for the failure of the east coast rail franchise. the transport select committee says operators virgin and stagecoach were over—optimistic in their bid, and the government failed to stress—test the proposal. the line was brought back into public ownership in june after failing to hit revenue targets. the department for transport said it was introducing new measures to deter over—bidding in future. an enhanced flu jab for elderly people will save hundreds of lives this winter, according to public health england. last year's injection was effective forjust one—in—io people aged over 65. the new vaccine contains extra ingredients designed to help older immune systems develop a stronger defence against flu. officials hope it will reduce the pressure on health services. that's a summary of the latest bbc news — more at 9:30. keith, regarding the subject of
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smacking, what happened to common sense? it is obvious that beating a child is a no—no, but a smack is a short, sharp shock. it didn't really hurt, it is the sudden shock. the child might cry, but it is forgotten quickly enough. as i said, common—sense, and we should be allowed to exercise our right to that. dave on facebook says a clip around... rouble still say this, a clip around the ear didn't do me harm as a kid. another, hitting a dog is abuse, hitting an adult is assault, hitting your wife is domestic abuse, hitting another is bullying, but an adult can hit a child and it isn't illegal? resorting to physical punishment is a failure of real parenting. if you're getting in touch, you are very welcome. use the hashtag #victorialive. and if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate. let's get some sport. holly is at the bbc sport centre. you really couldn't have scripted
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the end of england's series with india any better, could you? given england had already won it going into the final test at the oval, there were just a couple more plot lines to follow — we had james anderson, bowling for the final time with his close friend alastair cook on the field in his final test match for england. anderson was heading for a milestone of his own — needing just one more wicket to become become the most successful fast bowler in test cricket history. all day we waited for this moment but what a way to do it — with the final wicket of england's victory knocking the middle stump out of the ground. bang — done, end of the match. what a way to break glenn mcgra's record of 563 wickets. afterwards anderson was understably rather emotional — notjust about passing the record and winning the game, but more about losing his close friend alistair cook who's leaving the international game after a 12 year career. cook is actually godfather to anderson's eldest daughter. they walked off the pitch together — arguing over who would go first. the presentations were quite
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emotional as well, with captainjoe root tearing up as well. what he has achieved and what he's capable of achieving still is astounding, really. for him to have taken as many wickets as he has, i think the most exciting thing is that he is bowling, in my opinion, at his best throughout this summer. he has been outstanding. we can see that carrying forward for a long time. what a legacy to leave. you get the impression it onlyjust hit them when he was leaving for good. and england have won their first match since the world cup? they've ended their three—match losing streak, beating switzerland 1—0 in a friendly in leicester last night. after a pretty sluggish start the winning goal came
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eventually in the second half, scored by marcus rashford. but over in belfast, northern ireland's gavin whyte stole the show after being brought on for his debut against israel. he netted within two minutes with his very first touch of the ball. whyte only moved into full—time football this summer when he joined league one side oxford united. what a shame, though, his mum didn't even get to watch it! so a 3—0 win for northern irleand last night. elsewhere, the republic of ireland were in action too. from a star of the future to one from the past. the president of liberia dusting off his boots last night to play for his country? yes, you might remember this man. back in his heyday, george weah playing for ac milan, when he won the ballon d'or in 1995. now he's the president of liberia but, last night, he was given
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the chance to wear his preferred number 14 shirt one last time in a friendly match with nigeria. perhaps not in quite the same peak condition than in his playing days, the 51—year—old still showed some fleet—footedness and managed 79 minutes before leaving the field to a standing ovation. aand here's something for you. his son, 18—year—old timothy, was also in action last night playing for the usa, though. father and son, both in international action for different countries! six police and crime commissioners in england and wales have told this programme they don't want to criminalise people for smoking cannabis. at the moment, you could
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face a warning or a £90 fine for possession — but if you're caught three times you're likely to get a criminal conviction six out of the 39 pccs say they are open to some form of decriminalisation for recreational use of the drug a further six said prosecuting people for cannabis use or for going to illegal cannabis clubs was not a priority. the pcc for derbyshire, who's also the national lead on substance abuse, has been to meet members of an illegal cannabis club — where people meet up and smoke cannabis they grow for themselves. crucially, they say, they don't sell any. here's rick kelsey's report cannabis in the uk is a class b drug, but people seem to be becoming more open about smoking it — to the extent dozens of cannabis clubs, where the drug is shared and smoked among members, have been set up. some are even holding
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outdoor festivals, like this one in brighton. and now the debate over cannabis is even extending to the people who oversee our police. a significant number of police and crime commissioners, the people who hold chief constables to account, have told this programme they are now in favour of some form of cannabis decriminalisation. one of those commissioners is hardya dhindsa, the uk lead commissioner for drug abuse. he's asked the government for an immediate change in the law on drug policy. he wanted to find out for himself what the cannabis clubs were about. hardya, today you're going to be meeting some of the guys who run the biggest cannabis social clubs in the uk. what is it you want to find out from them? enforcement by itself will not solve the problem. education, regulation
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is important as was shown. so i'm really interested in what cannabis clubs do, do, how they have survived and what they can offer and contribute to this debate. is this a little bit odd, as a police and crime commissioner, meeting people that are openly breaking the law? until a few days ago i hadn't even heard of cannabis clubs and it is something really different and the fact is, as far cannabis clubs and it is something really different. and the fact is, as far as i understand it, there's over 100 cannabis clubs up and down the and what they actually do that has made them to be taken up into memebership and in terms of the police not taking action in terms of what they are doing. but it is yourjob to hold the police to account, so are you not holding them to account for doing something which is illegal? it's an operational matter.
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we help push the policies, parliament sets the laws and chief constables have to have independence on how they operationally deliver policing. i'm intrigued that chief constables up and down the country have not taken action against something which is blatantly illegal. we asked all 39 police and crime commissioners their views on the cannabis clubs and wider decriminalisation. 33 responded, six of them told us they didn't want to see people criminalised for smoking cannabis while six others said it wasn't an area they had a strong opinions on. the home office say they expect the police to enforce the law. uk cannabis social clubs has a register of about 160 individual clubs although it looks as though only about 25 or so actually have regular meet ups or a physical venue. with the amount of police and crime commissioners who say they are open to the idea of them, that number could grow. the map of the western world
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where cannabis is decriminalised for recreational use is growing. all these countries have recently decriminalised small amounts. and soon, over in canada, anyone in the whole country will be able to grow their own plants as well as smoke them. christine and greg both run cannabis clubs throughout the country. despite the fact what they're doing is illegal, they agreed to meet the commissioner. today you're meeting the police and crime commissioner for derbyshire and the uk lead on substance abuse, what do you guys want ask him? i want to ask him how he deals with other police crime commissioners who aren't so positive on substance abuse and how he gets around and managers to liaise with them in order to create some kind of balance.
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you guys work in and run cannabis social clubs. how nervous are you about running them and the potential for being arrested ? completely. we're still having people that are growing a small number of plants for themselves and they are having their doors kicked through, they are being arrested, they're being taken to the police station, held there for 24 hours like they are some kind of terrorist. it's not what a consenting adult should have to be put through. people have been growing cannabis for hundreds of years. obviously, with cannabis, it's been pretty medically proven that there is an increased risk of lung disease and lots of psychotic illnesses that can come along with it, so surely by encouraging people to come to your clubs that's just going to encourage people or leave people open to getting more ill. i don't know how you could put that argument across when currently people are accessing
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cannabis through the streets. there is no harm reduction in place to advise them what cannabis to use. the cannabis is not regulated so it could be sprayed with pesticides, fungicides, which are very harmful when they are smoked. hardya dhindsa supports some form of decriminalisation but will he back cannabis clubs? it's time to leave him and the club owners to talk. nice to meet you. please take a seat. thank you for meeting with me. thanks for meeting us. right, what are they all about when cannabis use is illegal in this country? they are a way for people who already consume cannabis to find a safer way to access it, away from the black market. currently cannabis is the most widely available drug in the uk. people can buy it pretty much in every town, city or village in the uk. it's produced by people
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that don't really care about the way that it is grown. it could have chemicals left in it, it could be sprayed with fertilisers. how do your cannabis clubs work? you run a cannabis club? it works as a social club also as well as just a cannabis club, there's a social side to it so there's people that will come from all over the place and meet up and talk, and for some people it's their outlet, it's their only one day out a week. some people have depression and suffer with anxiety and it helps with that all. lloyd is a recreational user who helps out with the club's work. that is partyly why i choose to use cannabis instead of alcohol cos it's safer and it seems strange that it should be a moral issue when really drugs were never a moral issue, it was always a health issue. why do people come to you and not just buy it off the street, or wherever they can? why are people coming to your clubs
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and becoming members? we grow the cannabis between ourselves. we all share our information of how it was grown, the process of it so we know that what's in that has been flushed, it is safe. consumers can access cannabis. i think the people who don't access it are going to be a lot happier about that, rather than it being run by an organised criminal market that doesn't pay tax and the government doesn't see any of that money. we could be benefiting from that in lots of other areas of the country. we very much welcome any feedback and notes from the other police crime commissioners in the country. it's the conversation we want to have. this is an adult issue. we would like to work with them rather than against them so if we can find a middle ground on where they stand and if they could give us a way of right, ok, we're not happy with this way but this way would be a better way for you to go around it then we are well open to start a discussion. i'm not going to promise anything but i will certainly look at that and that is myjob,
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to stimulate debate, look at where there is good practice which can make a difference to people that we serve in terms of abuse in criminality and reducing vulnerability to people who can be taken advantage of by serious criminality. later on, a catch up to find out how the meeting went. hey, how was that? interesting. i went there being intrigued to hear what cannabis clubs are about and i have to say i have been impressed. what they're doing is they're looking for more education regulation. that's the question and that is what it's raised in me to see whether cannabis clubs have a part to play in that. but you are one of a bunch of pccs who now believes in some form of decriminalisation. is there not a gulf growing between you and the home office? i would be. i'm not condoning this activity. what i'm trying to do
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is that breaking the law is currently the situation. we need to have a dialogue and i want to work with the home office to see whether cannabis clubs can have a part to play in looking at how we can actually tackle drug misuse, criminality, serious criminals through county lines and others, exploiting vulnerable groups. you are though still one ofjust a few police and crime commissioners who have openly said that you are open to some form of decriminalisation with cannabis. are you still far—away at odds from the majority of police and crime commissioners who have to hold the chief co nsta bles to accou nt? i was skeptical this before i went into that meeting.
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what are cannabis clubs? they are breaking the law. what i've have heard is they appear to be making difference in terms of how people don't go on the streets and get targeted and become more vulnerable, and there is regulation. regulation has worked in europe but education can make a difference and more of that is required. hardya dhindsa is now pushing for the law to be changed in favour of some form of decriminalisation. in the meantime, cannabis clubs continue to operate somewhat freely yet with no sign of a change in the law here, like in many parts of europe and in canada. thank you for your messages. justin says cannabis should not be illegal, full stop. it is hypocrisy we allow alcohol to be legal, with all of the social damage that causes. countries like the netherlands, parts of america and canada have proven that legal cannabis is no problem. rhona
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says i use cannabis oil as a pain reliever for shoulder convocations. i buy it in the netherlands, where it is legally sold. it is a substitute for painkillers, it enables me to sleep free of pain. cannabis, used with common can be of help. but on twitter as well, once the genie is out of the bottle, there is no way of getting it back in. the silent majority in the uk do not want any drugs legalised. thank you. we will talk more about it after ten o'clock. still to come... we're live in morocco, where, today, a long awaited new law comes into effect which criminalises all forms of public harassment. it's banned in 60 countries so is it time to make smacking children illegal in all parts of the uk? wales and scotland are consulting on it at the moment. school psychologists say it is really harmful to a child's mental health.
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are you a parent? what is your view? time for the latest news. conservative mps opposed to the prime minister's brexit plan will reveal their solution to the uk—irish border issue this morning. last night, a group of 50 eurosceptics discussed ways of forcing theresa may to step down. a number of them told a meeting they had submitted letters of no confidence. under party rules, 48 would need to do so to force a leadership contest. the environment secretary michael gove was asked whether there should be a leadership challenge. six police and crime commissioners in england and wales have told this programme they do not want people criminalised for possessing cannabis in every case. six out of 39 pccs say they're open to some form of decriminalisation for recreational use. another six say they're potentially open to it, or that prosecuting people for cannabis use was not a priority. at the moment, people caught with the drug can face a warning or a £90 fine. president putin says russia knows the true identities
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of two men accused of carrying out the never agent attack in salisbury. the nerve agent attack in salisbury. he says alexander petrov and ruslan boshirov who were named by uk authorities are civilians. mr putin said there is nothing criminal about them, and he hopes they'll come forward and tell their own story. ex—russian spy sergei skripal and his daughter were poisoned in march. school psychologists are calling for smacking to be banned outright because it harms children's mental health. the association of educational psychologists has tabled a motion to the tuc conference calling for physical punishment to be outlawed. hitting children to discipline them is banned in schools, although parents and carers can legally smack children lightly in the home if it is "reasonable punishment". legislation aimed at completely banning the smacking of children is currently being considered by the scottish parliament while the welsh government is also moving toward an outright ban. america's east coast is bracing itself for one
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of the worst hurricanes in 30 years. up to a million people have been told to leave their homes as hurrican florence threatens the carolina states and virginia . described as a monster, it's expected to strengthen in the coming hours. uk workers are more than £800 a year poorer as a result of the global financial crisis, according to calculations by the independent research group on public finances, the institute for fiscal studies. the crisis was sparked ten years ago this week with the collapse of the american bank lehman brothers. the ifs says people now aged in their thirties have been worst affected by the resulting recession, which was the deepest to hit the uk since world war two. free—to—use cash machines are being closed at a record rate — with more than 250 being taken out of service each month. link, the banking alliance which coordinates them, says it's partly because people are using cash less thanks to the rise in popularity of new payment methods, such as contactless transactions. they also put it down to cuts in payments
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to cash machine operators. that's a summary of the latest bbc news. here's some sport now with holly. england captainjoe root says james anderson record breaking end to england's victory over india was written in the stars as he bowled out for the last time alongside his friend alistair cook, who's leaving the international game after a 12—year career. england ended their losing streak with a 1—0 victory over switzerland in a friendly in leicester last night. after a rather sluggish start it was marcus rashford with the winning goal in the second half. over in belfast... northern ireland's gavin whyte stole the show after being brought on for his debut against israel. he netted within two minutes with his very first touch of the ball. and the france world cup winning
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captain hugo lloris is appearing in court over a drink—driving charge this morning. the tottenham goalkeeper has already apologised for what he called his unacceptable behaviour. that is all the sport, i will have more at ten o'clock. female tourists travelling to morocco often report being harrassed on the streets. well, today, morocco is bringing in a long awaited law criminalising public harassment and all forms of violence, including sexual assault. those who sexually harass in public spaces, by use of words, acts, or signals of a sexual nature, will face prison sentences ranging from one to six months and a fine. ina in a moment, we will talk to a dad in leeds who is daughters were roped ina in leeds who is daughters were roped in a moroccan medina. rothana begum investigates sexual harassment in morocco for human rights watch. stephanie willman bordat is in morocco — she helps women with legal challenges when they've faced harassment. aida alami is a moroccan activist/journalist who has been harassed multiple times. aida, why don't you tell some of the
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things that have to you. can you hear me ok? things that have to you. can you hear me 0k? yes, nowl can. tell some of the harassment you have faced there. i am not an activist, i am just faced there. i am not an activist, i amjusta faced there. i am not an activist, i am just a journalist, but, faced there. i am not an activist, i amjustajournalist, but, i mean, it is the kind of harassment by having cantered it is the kind of harassment by having ca ntered on it is the kind of harassment by having cantered on the streets, it is what every moroccan woman goes through. there has been a national survey that gave a percentage of women that i thought was very small because i think the reality is it is what happens every day here for a lot of women. what difference do you think the new law will make?|j lot of women. what difference do you think the new law will make? i think like many laws in morocco, they can sometimes be good on paper, but not a lwa ys sometimes be good on paper, but not always translated too much in practice. i rememberi always translated too much in practice. i remember i tried to talk
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about this with police officers last week, when someone was following me in the streets of rabat and i approached a police officer and as if he was going to do something —— i asked him if is going to do something, especially as the law was coming into effect and he said stand next to me and wait for him to go away. so i think one of the biggest challenges will to be to getjudges and the law enforcement to take these things seriously. rothman, it has been a described as a huge step for women's rights, do you agree?m is criminalising the axe for the first time but it is still very limited, so it doesn't actually mean the police have two charge when people come forward or the prosecutors have to charge for public harassment either. like aida has mentioned, other activists in morocco have repeatedly talked about it, this has taken a decade of action by women's rights groups in
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morocco but yet the law does not go far enough. what we want to see is proper implementation of a law which looks at an awareness raising and preventing this kind of violence and go out of its way to prosecute the perpetrators. it has only been brought in today, so you don't know whether prosecutions will emerge. well, from what we have seen in the past about crimes that do exist, the authorities have been very lax about actually going ahead and taking women's reports very seriously. what we want now, that the law has come into force, is the authorities to really ta ke into force, is the authorities to really take serious measures to implement the law. james, we are talking to you in leeds. your 11—year—old angela 14—year—old daughters experienced something not very nice at a medina in morocco, tell us what happened. hello, we we re tell us what happened. hello, we were walking through a medina in marrakesh and my 11—year—old had said somebody had felt her backside andl said somebody had felt her backside and i said, it is a busy place, it
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can happen. in the evening, my 14—year—old had her breasts groped andl 14—year—old had her breasts groped and i can see a bunch of boys and ha rd and i can see a bunch of boys and hard could see what had happened —— andl hard could see what had happened —— and i could see what had happened and i could see what had happened and it was a feeling of helplessness, i couldn't do anything about it. would it stop you going back there? yes, both have said they don't wish to return but as a father, you have a duty to protect your children and father, you have a duty to protect yourchildren and in father, you have a duty to protect your children and in the uk, that would be a serious issue but out in morocco, it is almost normalised. stephanie, would you agree with that? it is almost normalised and what difference will the lawmaker? well, it is not going to make much difference in the actions unless there are adequate measures to take a response. the issue is not that violence is not criminalised, the new law does create a sexual
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harassment crime, the new law in public spaces. the new law also create a new crime of technology facilitated violence, so everything thatis facilitated violence, so everything that is harassment and violence by e—mailand that is harassment and violence by e—mail and text message, etc. the problem is that, as before, women don't report violence, women only report domestic or sexual violence 110w report domestic or sexual violence now in 3% of the time and that is not going to change because there are absolutely no mechanisms that will facilitate women reporting the violence and, more importantly, the prosecutors and police don't actually have the guidelines all the tools to provide a proper response, so tools to provide a proper response, so for example, now, for a prosecutor to be able to prosecute let's say domestic assault and battery, for a woman to bring a case of assault and battery, she has to bring a medical certificate that say she has been incapacitated for 20 days or more. so prosecutors simply don't have the tools to prosecute
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these cases. it is also the same thing for the police. the police don't have the power to intervene in domestic violence cases unless there is imminent threat of death, so although the law does create a couple of new crimes or increase penalties for crimes that already existed, it simply does not provide an adequate state response. the prosecutors and the police do not have the tools and procedures they need to do theirjob and that is simply going to continue the dynamic of women not having faith that they are going to get a good response and they simply weren't reported. the tragic case that became very high profile is that of kadija, tell us what happened. a 17-year-old girl who was kidnapped and subjected to rape and sexual violence over the course of two months by multiple men. she finally escaped and reported what had happened to her. her case wasn'tjust reported what had happened to her. her case wasn't just about how horrific that abuse was, you get horrific that abuse was, you get horrific abuse like that in the uk and other countries, but it is the
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response as well. so the government has arrested 12 men and boys in relation to this crime, but the stigma against her has been quite high, so the way in which people have reacted to her has been quite important. in what way? there has beena important. in what way? there has been a public outcry about what happened to her but at the same time, families have been quite upset that she has claimed it was their family members that did this to her and so on. there has to be a lot of protection around this girl for her to be able to report this but also to be able to report this but also to get the assistance around her. when you look at domestic violence victims, there are only a few shelters in the country, for instance and not very much funding from the government to actually ensure that these women and girls have somewhere to go. so if they need to leave and be in a safe space, they don't have that either, so space, they don't have that either, so they need to be mechanisms in place to detect those who want to come forward. thank you all of you on the programme. if you're between 30 and 39 years old, then you are worst affected by the financial crash ten years ago.
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new research for the bbc suggests people in their 30s are now earning £2,100 a year less than people who were that age in 2008. the worst financial crisis since the second world war was triggered by the collapse of lehman brothers bank — which led to markets plunging and millions of people across the world losing theirjobs. clare and mark dobb live in the east midlands, one of the most tightly squeezed regions in the uk. they still have to borrow money from their parents when times are tough. here's their story. claire and mark dobb from the east midlands. samia shahid, from bradford, died two years ago while visiting relatives in pakistan. it's claimed she was murdered in a so—called "honour killing". but the investigation into her death has been subject to repeated delays. and now, herformer husband — who was injail there suspected of killing her — has been released on bail. samia shahid's mp has written to pakistan's prime minister, urging him to ensure
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justice is done. we can speak now to our correspondent in islamabad, secunder kermani. remind our audience what we know about what happened to samia. samia shahid was a 28—year—old beautician, she had grown up in bradford but she had an arranged marriage to her cousin ina had an arranged marriage to her cousin in a small village outside the city of jeddah, cousin in a small village outside the city ofjeddah, in northern pakistan, about two hours away from where i am now in islamabad. that relationship broke down, though, and she married another man with whom she married another man with whom she began to live in dubai, but her family disapproved of that relationship and her second husband said that her family convinced her to come back to pakistan for a trip by saying that her father was very ill, but while she was here, it seems she died and initially the
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family claimed it was a heart attack, but after a lot of international pressure and a police investigation police said they believed she had been strangled and they charged her first husband with murder, although she maka delete he has denied the charge. and what his ayr mp naz shah trying to achieve with this letter to the prime minister —— what is her mp. with this letter to the prime minister -- what is her mp. since it happen, there has been very little progress in the alleged macca delete case against her alleged killer, so little progress, he has been released on bail —— progress in the case against her alleged killer. naz shah has been very vocal about raising concerns about this case and say she is very concerned that this alleged killer has been released on bail. the pakistani legal system can often be very slow and i think naz shah is trying to exert some political pressure in the hope that this case one simply be forgotten. so i'm calling on the prime minister to intervene on this case. i want reassurances for the sake of samia's husband and for samia
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to get justice that she deserves. the fact remains that we have a british national, my constituent, who was brutally raped and murdered in pakistan and the killer is yet to be brought tojustice. will that letter make any difference? well, one of the reasons for the delay, it seems from talking to the lawyers in this case, is that samia shahid at‘s second husband, who is the one who filed the case with the police, isn't actually in pakistan to give evidence himself but both he and naz shah say that shouldn't be that important, because he wasn't an eyewitness to this alleged murder, he wasn't even in pakistan at the time and they say the wrens zych evidence that the police have gathered must be much more important —— forensic evidence. so inserting political pressure from the uk is a key way of keeping this case in the headlines and keeping pressure up, but naz shah has already been doing that and we are still seeing these delays, so it is
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certainly not guaranteed to work, u nfortu nately. certainly not guaranteed to work, unfortunately. thank you very much, secunder. coming up... after six police and crime commissioners in england and wales tell this programme the possession of cannabis shouldn't always be a criminal offence, we will talk with other pccs, including one who has smoked it in her past, about their view. school psychologists are calling for smacking children to be made illegal — saying it harms their mental health. the association of educational psychologists has tabled a motion at the tuc conference calling for physical punishment to be outlawed. at the moment, although corporal punishment is banned in schools, parents can smack a child as long as it is deemed "reasonable". let's talk to sue atkins, who is a mum of two and a former headteacher and describes herself as a "parenting coach," and sociologist dr stuart waiton, who is a campaigner at be reasonable scotland. thank you both forjoining us. sue
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atkins, would you support a ban?|j atkins, would you support a ban?” think i would now, there is so much compelling evidence to show... there was a study in canada of 160,000 children that showed that it leads to anxiety, depression and all sorts of detrimental... 13 detrimental things around self—esteem for children. there are so many other ways to talk to children and in still firm, fair ways to talk to children and in stillfirm, fairand ways to talk to children and in still firm, fair and consistent boundaries without smacking them and 60 other countries from around the world have banned it, so i wonder why we are so frightened about it. i wonder of it is we are worried about a nanny state. stuart, do you support a ban? no, i find it strange that we have this discussion about evidence all the time, because there is contradictory evidence, so people who are interested should go and look at the guy called robert
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larzellier, who has done a lot of work, written in the british medical journal, questioning all of this research on smacking, the vast majority of which he describes as being a form of advocacy research, where researchers are trying to find what they already believe. so what they are talking about here, in scotland, it is going to be banned soon, so that would become a criminal offence, and that is supposedly creating mental health problems among children. in response to that, sue, because as you can hear, stuart is very sceptical. of course, but we are in a position of trust. we are bigger, the stronger, we love our children and when we smack them or hit them, when do you start? when they are toddlers and make a mistake question what do you stop when they are 16 and taller than you and say it didn't hurt? stuard, and so that question. you allow parents to make that judgment. when you live in a free society and
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we have children and we trust parents to look after their children, we do that. what about grounding your child? if you grounded an adult, that would be a criminal offence. if you told an aduu criminal offence. if you told an adult to eat certain foods and forced them to eat their greens, that would be a criminal offence. there are lots of things we do to children that if we did them to adults would be seen as criminal offences, but this is what a loving pa re nt offences, but this is what a loving parent does as part of their discipline and this is what they're talking about, this. that would be a criminal offence. the difficulty with that is how does that escalate with that is how does that escalate with people who are under pressure, who have been smacked before when they were young and that is all they know? no, no, it doesn't have too escalate, that is a crime. that is a crime. is that right? just move your arm furtherup, so crime. is that right? just move your arm further up, so we can see. that isa crime. arm further up, so we can see. that is a crime. do that your child and
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it isa is a crime. do that your child and it is a crime. does that seem fair, slapping his own wrist, and if he did that to a child, that would be a crime soon in scotland? but this is a principle. i used to be a deputy headteacher and a class teacher for many years. we no longer smack children in school. why is it we go to that default position that it is 0k to that default position that it is okfor to that default position that it is ok for parents? if a child hits another child in the playground, we call it a regression. if an adult hits another adult, it is assault and yet it is all right for an adult to hit a child who is small and vulnerable. and we call it smacking. should they be able to ground their children and say you can't go out? that would be a criminal offence. should they be able to ground their children? i will tell you a simple one, with a teenager, you take away their mobile phone, that certainly sorts out the discipline. that would also be a criminal offence. this
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text m essa g e also be a criminal offence. this text message says i was in the nursery ca re for text message says i was in the nursery care for every year and we knew every child that gobsmacked by their behaviour. they thought it was all right to hit other children when they wanted something or to resolve difficult situations. they seemed less confident and more worried and unhappy in themselves, setting exa m ples of unhappy in themselves, setting examples of good behaviour, love, understanding and explaining your reasons is what works, so children can find their place in society. what you say that, stuart?” can find their place in society. what you say that, stuart? i think there is some truth to that. if you have an unloving parent who is being vicious and unpleasant to children, thenl vicious and unpleasant to children, then i think that will be a very poor upbringing for a child. if you have a loving parent who loves their child and is part of their upbringing and gives them a mild smack, that is absolutely no harm and you just have the usual common—sense to know that. and it is interesting that your other guest starts talking about principles, she starts talking about principles, she
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starts talking about evidence and ends talking about so which is it? let me bring injerry glazierfrom the national education union, a trade union for teachers. he is in manchester, where this motion is being put down at the tuc conference. can you hear me ok? being put down at the tuc conference. can you hear me 0k?” can, thank you. good morning. good morning. do you support this call? yes, we absolutely do support this call. it is significant that it is over 30 years since corporal punishment was banned in schools. schools were allowed to administer corporal punishment because they we re corporal punishment because they were in loco parentis, acting on behalf of the parents. that 30 years has seen lots of changes in people's understanding and appreciation of the damage that physical punishment for children can have and we think now is the time, like 60 other countries, to ensure that it should be abolished in the home and elsewhere. but that means you
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support criminalising a parent who might smack their child on the arm or the back of the legs. well, i think there is a fundamental difference between a light tap but when you start administering corporal punishment, smacking in a way which hurts the child, that cannot be acceptable in the 21st century and we really need to ensure it doesn't happen and the government needs a responsibility to ensure reasonable punishment is removed as an excuse. but i must say this, what is crucially important also is that parents are properly supported in developing their parenting skills. we have seen lots of the rising support the parents over the last ten years in particular, which means the job of parenting, which is incredibly difficult, we acknowledge that, is even more challenging, so we need to address that as well, so that parents are given the tools to manage their children's behaviour positively without having to resort to physical punishment. stewart, r
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60 countries who banned it wrong? cani 60 countries who banned it wrong? can ijust 60 countries who banned it wrong? can i just make 60 countries who banned it wrong? can ijust make the point, the last guest said there is a difference between a light tap, so he then accepted a light tap, this is where we get confused, we get the person introducing this in scotland smacked his own children and says its children are absolutely fine, so is hea children are absolutely fine, so is he a criminal question mark should we retrospectively arrest the person introducing this legislation? he equated to domestic violence and then they say we are not going to arrest parents that this, this is not about criminalising parents. if it is the same as domestic violence, we should be arresting parents, going into homes and arresting them and every time a teacher here is that it child has been smacked lightly on the hand, we should be sending the police around and arresting them if it is the same as domestic violence. but it is not the same, it is part of parenting as a loving person and all parents do not need to be supported or given education classes. we do not need
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experts making a problem out of what isa experts making a problem out of what is a loving relationship that the vast majority of people get on with perfectly fine without the support. thank you all, very much. news and sport on the way, let's get the weather with the latest on hurricane florence. simon. yes, iwill start florence. simon. yes, i will start with hurricane fly rents because it is still churning winds of 140 mph, still churning winds of 140 mph, still quite a way off from the coast of the united states, but it is moving its way ever closer and the eye of that storm is really quite distinctive. let's look at the forecast track. still some uncertainty as to exactly where it might make landfall, but it is likely to be north and south carolina, sticking around these coastal areas for quite awhile, so we're looking at catastrophic flooding, some very strong winds and a big storm surge. that is on thursday and into the end of the week, we will keep a close eye on that. as for the uk, we have had a rather wet start this morning across wales, the midlands, eastern england. that rain isjust
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wales, the midlands, eastern england. that rain is just fizzling away, like a sponge being squeezed out. my legacy of clout the southern areas but further north, some sunshine, so a glorious start to the day in northumberland. now, for much of northern england, scotland, northern ireland will see some sunshine, a few showers into western scotla nd sunshine, a few showers into western scotland through the course of the day. eventually, some sunnier spells breaking through the further south you are but it will stay cloudy in the far south—east. one thing you will notice in the south is how much chillier it is compared to yesterday, temperatures 17—18. elsewhere, a degree or so lower than yesterday. overnight tonight, some showers and some rain moving its way to scotland and northern ireland but they need clear skies, it is going to turn much chillier compared to the last few nights. look at the greens developing on the map, a bit of blue in central scotland, perhaps a bit ofa of blue in central scotland, perhaps a bit of a grass prospered temperatures for many others down into single figures for thursday morning. but it will be a fine start to the day for england and wales,
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plenty of sunshine through the morning, a bit of clay developing through the afternoon. a bit of rain first thing across scotland and northern ireland but it will gradually clear away, some showers moving their way in here and temperature wise, still 16—18 for many, perhaps just a temperature wise, still 16—18 for many, perhapsjust a little bit higher today across the south with more in the way of sunshine breaking through. into the end of the week, another weather system mainly affecting northern and western areas into friday, that will bring some rainfor into friday, that will bring some rain for scotland and northern ireland. some rain also the northern england and across wales. the further south and east you are, largely dry and fairly bright through friday and eventually, after the rain clears away, some sunnier spells in northern parts and temperatures again about 15—20. for the weekend, for northern parts, it will remain showery over the weekend, some rain at times for scotla nd weekend, some rain at times for scotland and northern ireland. dry for england and wales with some sunny spells and temperatures in the mid—high teens, perhaps low 20s. good morning, it is wednesday, ten
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a:m.. six out of 39 police and crime commissioners in england and wales tell us possession of cannabis should not always be a criminal offence. we talk to one man who runs a cannabis club. they are a way for people that already consume cannabis to find a safer way to access it, away from the black market. we'll debate the decriminialisation of cannabis — and talk to pccs on both sides of the argument. we will talk to one that acknowledged she smoked cannabis as acknowledged she smoked cannabis as a student. around 50 eurosceptic conservative mps have met to talk about ways to force theresa may to step down as prime minister. and this morning tory mps opposed to the prime minister's brexit plan will reveal their solution to the uk—irish border, we'll bring you live coverage of that event in the next hour and it's being called a vicious monster of a storm — and the most powerful in three decades. as hurricane florence gets closer to the us east coast — upto a million people begin
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to leave their homes this storm is a monster. it's big and it's vicious. it is an extremely dangerous, life—threatening, historic hurricane. we'll talk to american residents of the states that are going to be hit — some have left their homes, others are staying put the environment secretary michael gove has dismissed suggestions of a future leadership challenge to theresa may. last night, a group of 50 eurosceptics discussed ways of forcing theresa may to step down. a number of them told a meeting they had submitted letters of no confidence under party rules, 48 would need to do so to force a leadership contest. mr gove who was one of the leading voices in the leave campaign says talk of a leadership contest is a "distraction". the prime minister is doing an
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excellent job. the the prime minister is doing an excellentjob. the prime minister is there to deliver a clear mandate that the british voters gave us to ta ke that the british voters gave us to take us out of the european union, the single market, the customs union, the common agricultural policy and the common fisheries policy. i think it is important we give the prime minister full support in making sure we discharge that mandate and that the vote in the referendum is respected. six police and crime commissioners in england and wales have told this programme they do not want people criminalised for possessing cannabis in every case. six out of 39 pccs say they're open to some form of decriminalisation for recreational use. another six say they're potentially open to it, or that prosecuting people for cannabis use was not a priority. at the moment, people caught with the drug can face a warning or a £90 fine. president putin says russia knows the true identities of two men accused of carrying out the never agent attack in salisbury. he says alexander petrov and ruslan boshirov who were named
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by uk authorities are civilians. mr putin said there is nothing criminal about them, and he hopes they'll come forward and tell their own story. ex—russian spy sergei skripal and his daughter were poisoned in march. school psychologists are calling for smacking to be banned outright because it harms children's mental health. the association of educational psychologists has tabled a motion to the tuc conference calling for physical punishment to be outlawed. hitting children to discipline them is banned in schools, although parents and carers can legally smack children lightly in the home if it is "reasonable punishment". legislation aimed at completely banning the smacking of children is currently being considered by the scottish parliament while the welsh government is also moving toward an outright ban. jerry glazier is from the national education union it is significant that it is 30
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yea rs it is significant that it is 30 years since corporal punishment was banned in schools. schools were allowed to do that because they were acting on behalf of the parents. in 30 years we have seen lots of changes in the understanding and appreciation that the damage that physical punishment for children can have. we think now is the time, like 60 other countries, to ensure that it should be abolished in the home and elsewhere. america's east coast is bracing itself for one of the worst hurricanes in 30 years. up to a million people have been told to leave their homes as hurrican florence threatens the carolina states and virginia. described as a monster, its expected to strengthen in the coming hours. free—to—use cash machines are being closed at a record rate, with more than 250 being taken out of service each month. link, the banking alliance which coordinates them, says it's partly because people are using cash less, thanks to the rise in popularity of new payment methods, such as contactless transactions. they also put it down to cuts in payments to cash machine operators.
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that's a summary of the latest bbc news — more at 10.30. let's get some sport now. the england captainjoe root says jimmy anderson is still bowling at his best after anderson became the leading fast bowler in test cricket history in alastair cook's final test for england. anderson needed just one more wicket to reach 564 wickets and surpass australia's glenn mcgrath. what a way to do it — with the final wicket of the series — knocking out the middle stump. england winning the series 4—1, anderson and alastair cook couldn't decide who should leave the pitch first. cook reluca ntly taking the limelight. captain joe root afterwards reflected on the importance of england's leading wicket taker. whatjimmy has achieved and what he is capable of achieving,
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still, is astounding, really. for him to take as many tickets as he has. i think the most exciting thing is he is bowling, in my opinion, at his best. throughout this summer he has been outstanding and can carry forward, hopefully, for a long time still. england's footballers have won their first match since the world cup. they've ended their three—match losing streak beating switzerland 1—0 in a friendly in leicester last night. david ornstein was there. england on the road. leicester, the destination. a chance for fans to salute their world cup stars. and with the fa considering the sale of wembley, this could be a sign of things to come. but first, a nod to the past. 25 seconds broadcast in black and white honouring the 25th anniversary of football's anti—discrimination charity kick it out. early on, it seemed england's challenge was to keep it out. james tarkowski's blushes spared by the width of the post, before jack butland twice saved the home side. how they could have done
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with the creativity of paul gascoigne at his peak. there were nine changes to the line—up. one of them, danny rose, and he came closestfor england as half—time approached. finally, they had some momentum. with it came reward. marcus rashford again showing his international pedigree and giving the king power crowd a return on their unstinting support. despite the improvement, there were still nervy moments. john stones making a vital intervention to maintain the advantage, meaning england held on to end a run of three straight defeats. that winning feeling is back. david ornstein, bbc news, leicester. meanwhile, over in belfast, northern ireland's gavin whyte stole the show after being brought on for his debut against israel. he netted within two minutes with his very first touch of the ball. whyte only moved into full—time football this summer when he joined league one side oxford united. elsewhere, the republic of ireland were held
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to a 1—1 draw by poland. britain's simon yates has a decent lead going into the final stages of the vuelta a espana. yates finished 13th in the individual time trial, but did enough to go 33 seconds clear of his nearest rival with five stages to go. that's all the sport for now. six of england and wales' police and crime commissioners have told this programme they do not want to criminalise people for smoking cannabis. at the moment, you could face a warning or a £90 fine for possession, but if you're caught three times you're likely to get a criminal conviction. in addition to those six who are calling for a change in the law, another six told us they were potentially open to decriminalisation or that prosecuting people for cannabis use was not a priority. pcc‘s are democratically elected officials, whosejob it is to hold police forces to account and make sure they run efficiently.
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we've brought together a group of people to debate this . we can speak to two pccs — alison hernandez, pcc for avon and somerset, who is not in favour of decriminalising possession — she has smoked cannabis herself in the past. ron hogg, pcc for durham, who is in favour. janie hamilton is with us too — her son smoked cannabis from the age of 14 and suffered from psychosis. his psychosis meant he refused treatment for testicular cancer and he died in 2015 aged 36. joe humphries, whose 29—year—old son suffers from psychosis linked to cannabis use. eduoard desforges is from uk cannabis social clubs. lizzie mcculloch from volteface, an organisation that wants to see cannabis legalised in the uk and heavily regulated. they've got some interesting
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research out today. jack morgan, a 21—year—old who has smoked cannabis both for recreational and social reasons. i think that means an additional reasons? alisson, as a pcc, how do you react to the fact that six of your colleagues do not want to criminalise people for cannabis possession? firstly, iwould criminalise people for cannabis possession? firstly, i would like criminalise people for cannabis possession? firstly, iwould like to say i am the police and crime commissionerfor devon, say i am the police and crime commissioner for devon, cornwall and the isles of scilly, i would not wa nt to the isles of scilly, i would not want to make a comment about sue stephen's work in a van and somerset. sorry, that is crucial, the area that you cover. apologies. any debate is important, and we are never going to agree on everything, but i am part of the 70% of police and crime commissioner is that don't believe in legalising cannabis. i do
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believe in legalising cannabis. i do believe that communities that suffer from drug dealing and drug—taking, not one of them have lobbied me that they would like soft sentencing or a softer approach. how do you react to the fact that six of your colleagues do not want to criminalise people for cannabis possession?” do not want to criminalise people for cannabis possession? i think the main thing is that none of us want to criminalise users of drugs, we wa nt to to criminalise users of drugs, we want to deal with the drug dealers. we wa nt want to deal with the drug dealers. we want to make sure they are taken off our streets. they are preying on vulnerable people, and we have to work out better ways to help people that are struggling to cope, and none of us want to criminalise people that are suffering. one of the biggest and most important m essa 9 es the biggest and most important m essa g es to the biggest and most important messages to our community, particularly young people, i am a pa rent of particularly young people, i am a parent of an 11—year—old come i certainly want to make sure the message to her is that cannabis is not a safe substance to use and i would prefer her to be thinking about it twice if she was offered it. ron, how do you deal with an example of an 11—year—old daughter?
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it is very difficult, but you have access to alcohol, tobacco, the legal ways that society allows us to kill ourselves. let's be quite clear about that. can i be clear that i wa nt about that. can i be clear that i want to decriminalise all drug use, not legalise. what we need is a informed debate. if we look at cannabis, actually, it is one of the drugs which causes the least harm. alcohol causes far more harm than cannabis does. we need to have an education programme, make sure the kind of cannabis sold on the streets, which is corrupted by dealers, ina streets, which is corrupted by dealers, in a trade where £7 billion of illegal drugs trade goes on, these other drugs that will cause real harm, as opposed to the ones that you can grow yourself. how do you react? i think with my son, it is not only the fact that it has caused this psychosis in him, there
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is also the fact that nobody is out there to help. with the police force, it would be what are their motives to make it legal? i'm saying it's because they cannot police it any more. that is part of the reason. the government said this in the evaluation of the drugs strategy la st the evaluation of the drugs strategy last year, arrest and prosecution has no impact whatsoever on drug users. clearly, my heart goes out to somebody whose son has suffered in that way. we know there is clear evidence, look at the evidence that cannabis use for young people is likely to lead to psychosis, they are most at risk. we must have education programmes that advise and help parents, help young people to make the correct decisions, and going down a dark street, buying something from a dealer and you don't know what you are buying, it is not the solution. we need a broader debate. alisson? the thing
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for me is around the fact that i haven't worked in any community over the last eight years since i have been involved in elected office, where a community is demanding, where a community is demanding, where they are suffering from high levels of drug abuse in their community, that they want the decriminalisation of such a thing. it isa decriminalisation of such a thing. it is a moral argument, notjust a legal argument. i think the important thing for me is if the anti—social nature of the smell of cannabis today, the users that want to use it don't even consider the harm that is causing to a wider community. i've had people complaining to me that their neighbours are constantly smoking it and the smell is so anti—social, and it is affecting their lives. this is not something that i want to be taking lightly. just to clarify, she just said previously she did not wa nt just said previously she did not want to criminalise drug users, and she has changed her tune. clearly, evidence gathered by ipsos mori shows that two thirds of the british population want to review the drugs policy. the point i would make is
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that edibles don't smell. if we have regulated products, you have a diversity of product and that might even lead to situations where people we re even lead to situations where people were taking safer for them forms of cannabis. do you know much about the cannabis. do you know much about the cannabis your son was taking? did you have any conversations with him about drugs education? every time he sees me, he screams at me and runs across the street. prior to that, did you have any conversations with him? this is one of the problems. there is very poor education around cannabis. while they don't deny that there are these situations where people consume cannabis and psychosis is correlated, although not necessarily the cause from that usage, if you look at places like america, washington state, which had over 40 million cannabis
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transactions last year, you compare it toa transactions last year, you compare it to a neighbouring state like oregon, where in the year before la st oregon, where in the year before last they didn't have any medical marijuana access programme, the comparison was not in washington they had lower levels of violent crime. they had less stronger drug use and they have less deaths as a result of that. jack, how did you get into smoking cannabis?” result of that. jack, how did you get into smoking cannabis? i am at the university of bristol, like a lot of people at university, i tried it with some friends. and then recently i was actually diagnosed with cancer, in october 20 17. i then started using it medicinally to help alleviate some tins of chemotherapy. —— symptoms of chemotherapy. —— symptoms of chemotherapy. it had good antinausea properties, it improved my appetite and it made me feel relaxed. you mentioned the anti—social smell of
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cannabis, as opposed to the anti—social behaviour caused by alcohol. i don't understand how a smell can be anti—social in comparison to the behaviour caused by alcohol. people get aggressive. they get into fights. people that have taken cannabis, they are not aggressive, they are completely the opposite, they are relaxed, they don't cause harm to anyone.” opposite, they are relaxed, they don't cause harm to anyone. i am just going to bring injaney, thank you for speaking to us. tell us what happened to your son, james? unbeknownst to us, he started smoking cannabis at 14. i was not looking out for signs of drug taking, it was not on our radar. this was 22 years ago, it was not talked about quite so much. by the time he was 20, he was psychotic, and sectioned for the next 16 years.
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sadly, he developed a lump in his testicle and refuse treatment. there was a court case in london. due to his psychosis, he was convinced he would not die and would not have any treatment. we had to watch him die. most people cannot imagine what that must have been like for you. absolutely appalling. i want to ask you, janey, how you react to the fa ct you, janey, how you react to the fact that six of the england and wales police and crime commissioner is tell us they do not want to criminalise people for smoking cannabis? in some ways, i don't really wa nt cannabis? in some ways, i don't really want to get into this field, because everybody is wanting the best outcome for these young people that are damaging their brains. but that are damaging their brains. but thatis that are damaging their brains. but that is not really my field. i go to schools and take assemblies for year 10,9,
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schools and take assemblies for year 10, 9,11, schools and take assemblies for year 10, 9, 11, they listen without moving and what i am telling them is so moving and what i am telling them is so shocking. we got the gist of that, apologies for the technical problem at the end. let me bring you m, problem at the end. let me bring you in, we have interesting research out today that suggests there is a rise in the number of prosecutions brought against children and young people for cannabis, but a fall in prosecutions brought against adults. what do you read into that? the findings you have talked about, it is being released as part of a report that is looking at how effective uk cannabis policies are. we have found that they are failing. they are failing to prevent young people from becoming involved in the illicit cannabis market, as users or dealers of cannabis. some surprising findings, where we have seen a rise in young people being convicted of dealing cannabis, but a fall in adults being prosecuted for dealing
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cannabis. we don't believe this is because of the police actively criminalising young people, there is not the resources or desire to do that. the case we make is that young people increasingly see dealing as a viable option to make money. this is all facilitated by social media. we spoke to young people and they said that social media platforms have made it easier to interact and facilitate dealing. so, primary or secondary schoolchildren are selling cannabis on instagram and snapchat? yes, there will be younger people. our research suggests it is people in transitional period, 16, 17, leaving care, going into college. they are at a vulnerable time. are you saying they should not be arrested for selling cannabis? at the least, let's not give people a criminal record. we know the devastating impact it can have on lives and well—being in future. let's be ambitious, let's say our
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position should be it is not a cce pta ble position should be it is not acceptable for young people to be dealing cannabis, and to have access to cannabis. we should be restricting young people's access. justin trudeau is introducing a child centred policy that has been explicitly made on the grounds that we should be restricting access to cannabis. you are nodding in agreement? i think age checks are entirely appropriate. you don't want unfettered access of cannabis for children. so, the club model that we propose, you have to show valid id. there is no... just described that clu b there is no... just described that club model, as you put it? how would it work in your ideal scenario?m is an idea from 2006, a pan—european coalition of drug reform activists and organisations came together with this model. it has been implemented in places like spain, many british tourists go to... describe it. it is
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a place where you can go, you can consume cannabis in a socially responsible way, where the members pay a membership duty, that in a sense locks them into the club. they can procure cannabis of a safe, high—quality, where profit is not the main concern. it is grown by the members, for the members. the main concern. it is grown by the members, forthe members. it is a very safe method of accessing cannabis away from the traditional black market, the greater drug market. but they are illegal. there are dozens across the country? in spain they are not illegal, in the uk, they are. i suppose... spain they are not illegal, in the uk, they are. isuppose... have spain they are not illegal, in the uk, they are. i suppose... have none of them had been raided? that is the point, it is a victimless crime, cannabis users are not violent. you are shaking your head? cannabis
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users suffering psychosis can be violent. one of the things in my area, there is a national priority by government. there are a number of police and crime commissioner is, the majority, concerned about road safety a nd the majority, concerned about road safety and deaths on our roads. i would be interested if there is a policy that you are not going to be driving there and back at these cannabis clubs. these are extra safeguarding issues we have in society, where there are literally people buying on the roads and we need to make sure that drinking and drug driving our absolute no—nos. some messages from people watching, do we want to live in a society where the use of drugs becomes commonplace? i have no problem using cannabis for medical conditions, but hundreds of thousands more would ta ke hundreds of thousands more would take it up if made legal. on twitter, completely agree regarding cannabis use, possession should be decriminalised. the police cannot deal with proper crime, why spend precious resources on this? decriminalisation would remove the
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crime incentive. the same principle should apply to all drugs. from e—mail, those commissioners in favour of decriminalising, it is madness, everybody agrees it is a gateway drug to harder substances. another says that medical use has my full support, but recreational use in the netherlands here has a dark side as well, it can have a devastating effect on mental health. the cannabis lobby is in denial, like any business, to protect profits. proceed with caution. we are going to leave it there. let me read you a home office statement. "the trade and possession of recreational cannabis is illegal in the uk, regardless of where you use it. scientific and medical evidence is clear that recreational cannabis use can cause harm to individuals and society. how police choose to pursue
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investigations is an operational decision for chief constables, but we are clear that we expect them to enforce the law." news coming in from westminster magistrates‘ court. the spurs goalkeeper hugo lloris has pleaded guilty ina goalkeeper hugo lloris has pleaded guilty in a last couple of minutes to drink—driving, one count of drink—driving. still to come... conservative mps opposed to theresa may‘s brexit plans are about to reveal their solution to the uk—irish border. the event is due to begin in the next few minutes, we‘ll bring you live coverage from westminster. the most powerful storm to threaten the east coast of america in more than three decades is expected to strengthen in the coming hours. hurricane florence is being described as a monster and a mass evacuation is under way. the storm is now category four. north and south carolina, along with virginia are expected to be worst affected. roads leading out of the three
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states affected have been clogged with people travelling to safe areas — but others have chosen to board up properties and ride out the storm. north carolina governor roy cooper says this is a grave mistake. hurricane florence will affect each and everyone of you. this storm is a monster. it‘s big, it‘s vicious. it is an extremely dangerous, life—threatening, historic hurricane. even if you‘ve ridden out storms before, this one is different. don‘t bet your life on riding out a monster. let‘s speak to cathy benson. she lives in an evacuation zone in virginia, but is choosing to stay put. matt mardell from south carolina isn‘t evacuating and is staying at a care home where his wife works.
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ashley lopez evacuated to maryland as her house in havelock, north carolina, is on the coast and directly in the path of the storm. cathy, why haven‘t you left? cathy, why haven't you left? well, i am not actually in the evacuation zone, but we are expecting anywhere from eight inches to a foot of rain. they haven‘t finished opening shelters and such. is it floods appear, we are all in trouble. —— if it floods up here. are you worried? iam very it floods up here. are you worried? i am very worried. i have a first cousin in washington, north carolina, at the pamlico river, where this thing is supposed to come
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in. i have worried all night about them. but also about this area. we had a tremendous flood in 1985, with loss of life and devastation. this whole area is very nervous. the hurricane, at that time it was just a tropical depression, we can see what it can do. this thing is 500 miles wide. the hurricane is 500 miles wide. the hurricane is 500 miles wide. the hurricane is 500 miles wide. it is going to be our version of katrina. all of our emergency services here, schools are closed, football games, even virginia tech has cancelled the football game for saturday. in america, for a university to do
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that, you are talking millions of dollars right there. matt, you are holing up in a care home where your wife works. will you be safe there? that building is relatively new and designed to withstand proclaims up to category four. my wife cannot leave, it is pa rt four. my wife cannot leave, it is part of her role. we will be there, if they are told to stay in place and not evacuate, i will be there as well. are you worried? i am nervous, the good kind of nervous. we are prepared as we are going to be. i have seen overnight that the storm changed pattern and it is going to make a sudden turn as it makes landfall. i‘m going to be worried,
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but it is a good worried and i am going to be prepared. we will be ready for it. ashley, you left your town before the mandatory evacuation order was put out. how are you feeling about the home you have left behind? well, i am very nervous. we are directly on the coast. they have been evacuating every city and each town since i left the past weekend. yesterday, they put out the mandatory evacuation from my town. we know exactly how serious this is going to be. a category one went through and everything was flooded in that town. we are very worried about the flooding, what is going to be left behind when we get back.
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what have you done to your home to try to prepare, to try to keep it secure? we have actually reinforced the windows. we put cardboard and tape along the windows. we got everything up on the counters, as much of the furniture, as much of the material as we code on the counters. we are kind of away from the windows to make sure that at least something was salvageable if something went down. we filled up tupperware and containers so we have drinking water when we get back. thank you. we appreciate your time and wish you the best. it‘s onlyjust over six
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leaves the european union. this morning, leading brexiteers who are against theresa may‘s so—called chequers plan are setting out their proposals for the uk/irish republic border. let‘s listen in. on either side of the border to keep that risk to an absolute minimum. the argument that we are making today is, you know, the comparatively small risk of noncompliant goods entering the single market should not get in the way of the two sides negotiating a canada way of the two sides negotiating a ca na da style way of the two sides negotiating a canada style free trade agreement. that would be in a mutual interests of both sides. this paper sets out how it is possible to deliver that free trade agreement whilst still maintaining and ensuring that the border in northern ireland stays is open today and the eu can protect the integrity of their single market. thank you and now it is a
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great pleasure to get our second secretary of state for northern ireland, james patterson. good morning. as to reason said, we are told that the integrity of the single market and the customs union is in peril because the problem of the northern ireland border cannot be resolved. the first point to make is there is a border today. there is a vat and tax border, there is an excise duty border, there is a currency board and, very importantly, there is a security border —— currency board. and that is all handled with current administrative and technical tools without any major problems of implementation. and my contention, and we put this in the paper, is that we should look at the actual issues at the border. i asked dominic raab at the statement last week, what are the cross—border
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transactions which are so intractable that they cannot be resolved by current technical and administrative means? and he very politely did not give me an answer. so what we are trying to do today is be helpful to the european commission and the government and give an cancer. —— give an answer. because we believe there is absolutely no need for any new physical infrastructure at the border and it can be handled by current means. so if you take what actually goes on over the border, northern ireland sales of mainly within the uk, 65% within northern ireland, 20% to great britain, so 80% within the uk. only 496 scent of northern ireland sales go south of northern ireland sales go south of the border. —— 4.9g of northern ireland sales go south of the border. —— 4.96 percent. and the majority of that is regular shipments of a repetitive nature of conforming goods which have been going on for decades. i remember way
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long ago when i was the shadow secretary going to the big dairy in monaghan. at that time, 80% of their milk came from northern ireland. today, about a billion litres of northern ireland milk, about a third, go south of the border. it is the same milk from the same powers in the same fields on the same truck on the same road to the same destination every single day. and it goes very destination every single day. and it goes very smoothly, and it can continue to go very smoothly with current techniques. we have the concept of the trusted trader, authorised economic operators, they could very well handled their trade. you take guinness, there are 13,000 border crossings handling guineas. these are huge, respectable, highly professional companies who can use the technique on authorised economic operator. we will get more detail on how we propose to handle conformity
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and equivalents, but all this can be done away from the border. inspections can be done at point of shipment. inspections can be done at point of arrival and the transmission of information can all be done electronically. there is absolutely no need for new physical infrastructure at the border and the most obvious example of that sadly, under the current most obvious example of that sadly, underthe current eu most obvious example of that sadly, under the current eu regime, most obvious example of that sadly, underthe current eu regime, there is significant smuggling. 8 million cigarettes were seized in belfast in february. there is significant smuggling of cigarettes, alcohol, drugs and, above all, fuel. there is this very unpleasant business of taking agricultural diesel, green in the south, read in the north, putting it through cat litter and then selling it illegally. this is
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very, very lucrative and fuel arms criminal gangs. these trades go on now under the current regime and not a single person has ever suggested to me, as i spent three years of shadow secretary of state and two years as the real secretary of state, ever suggested that these problems can be resolved by more physical infrastructure at the border. these seizures are stopped by intelligence and by tremendous cooperation by the law enforcement authorities in the republic of ireland and in northern ireland. and that will go on after we leave the european union, without any new infrastructure. so when people say there is a threat to the peace process, that is a very, very serious suggestion. when people like to to reason and i come to northern ireland and speak to someone like
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david trimble, one of the great figures in getting the belfast agreement through, the absolute fundamental element of getting it through was the principle of consent and the idea that a border can be imposed on a large majority of the population in northern ireland against their will goes right against their will goes right against their will goes right against the principal consent. it is the most dangerous concept. so our paper shows that we can help the european commission, we can help the government and with current technical and administrative procedures, there is nothing new in here, it is actually quite boring when you get to read it, there is absolutely nothing new in here, it has all been worked out elsewhere, we can deliver and ordered border which will not pose any threat to the integrity of the european single market or customs union. i very much
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hope you enjoy reading it and you will support it. thank you very much. well, thank you, and we are particularly pleased to have hans marsen with us. as i said earlier, we are a research group and we are drawing depths of research to ensure that we have factual answers. owen said boring, but i think that is overstating it and hans, we are very pleased to welcome you. thank you very much, a short introduction, my name is hans marsen, i am 60 years old, i in touch, i have been a customs broker for 35 years and have been chairman of the dutch assertion asian brokers for ages until recently. i just want to mention some highlights —— dutch association of brokers. if you read the paper, you will find the technicalities in there. the paper is based on a free—trade canada style. now, if you
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have a free—trade agreement, you have a free—trade agreement, you have do prove the origin of the goods. it is estimated that the traffic on the irish northern irish border will be for 98% origin eu uk. so there is no issue with duties at all, you have do state the origin and that is it. now, there is a new system worldwide, a global new system worldwide, a global new system called reticent exporter, which is being introduced in the uk is already progressing with that and it isa is already progressing with that and it is a simple system that if you stay on the invoice with which you sell the goods, these are uk origin or eu origin, that is enough for the buyer to his declaration on and prove the origin. so the system, which is also being implemented by the eu, can be used very well to prevent certificate of origin problems. of course, there is no duties when the origin is from
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either side of the border. let‘s have a look at how the customs clea ra nce ca n have a look at how the customs clearance can be done. the proposal is to do in land clearances. it has already been mentioned, you can do an export declaration on the premises of the exporter and then make a declaration on the premises of the importer. that is standard practice in the eu, it is already in the union customs code, no problem. you need mobile inspection teams, if hmrc wants to inspect the goods, but the percentage of inspected goods is very small, two or 3% for imports. they could easily be outsourced to private companies because many times it comes down to counting the number of packages. so in that way, you don‘t need any border facilities on the border, you canjust drive through and do your export or import. now, if you don‘t have duties, that leaves a vat. now, vat isa duties, that leaves a vat. now, vat is a very serious tax. but there is
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a vat clearance system in place at the moment, the value—added information exchange system, and the ideal would be to keep that in place. it is there, for instance, we don‘t need to do any investments. so that would have our preference. but if the eu would not agree on that, we could have a system based on another facility within the union custom code called entry into declared records, which comes down to if you take your invoice in your administration, you have all the data available, that is enough to prove you have the data to make a correct declaration. you can do that yourself or hire somebody like a customs broker who can do that for you. and then there is the final thing, and exemption of £85,000 if you have a turnover as a business of below £85,000, there are no vat obligations, so for micro—businesses, that is a relief but if you want, you can register
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for vat even if you are a micro—business and deduct the vat. i would like to remark that within the facilitated customs arrangement, there is nothing about vat. i asked hmrc people, could you tell me please watch your ideas are about that and they said, we will come back to you in a month. there is one other thing to look at them that is the regulatory alignment and product compliance. well, there is regulatory alignment on day one. we are in the internal market now and i would like to mention as well that there are thousands of containers coming into the eu and the uk every day, from china or elsewhere in the world and they are all regulatory line, there is no issue, so what are we talking about? but that leaves theissue we talking about? but that leaves the issue of veterinary goods, goods of animal origin the issue of veterinary goods, goods ofanimal origin and the issue of veterinary goods, goods of animal origin and the eu regulation says they should be inspected in the facility of the border. now, in rotterdam, where i am from, we have private inspection
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posts scattered around the harbour, up posts scattered around the harbour, up to 20 kilometres inside, so when goods arrive at a terminal, they have a transit document and go to this place, have a veterinary inspection and go back and fulfilled a normal customs inspection, so there is no need to make an interest—rate infrastructure —— make an infrastructure at the northern irish borderfor an infrastructure at the northern irish border for veterinary checks. that will result in what i call drive—through borders and this concept is not only work for the irish northern ireland border but it can work fall of the eu, so also in dover and calais and elsewhere. thank you. —— for all of the eu. thank you. —— for all of the eu. thank you. —— for all of the eu. thank you and now i am particularly pleased to ask maria caulfield to speak to us, because she has a direct and personal interest in this and has constantly pushed the erjee to ensure that we had a decent and
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sar bakkali —— answer on the northern ireland republic issue. maria. thank you very much. as someone who has served on both northern ireland and the brexit select committee, the proposals in this paper are reasonable proposals that offer a range of solutions and really challenge the three big challenges to getting a free—trade agreement. firstly, we understand the eu and their concern about maintaining that integrity of the single market and the customs union and the proposals in this paper do just that. we absolutely want to respect the good friday agreement and that nothing undermines that in any way and the proposals in that paperdo any way and the proposals in that paper do exactly that. and thirdly, we want to facilitate trade between northern ireland and the republic of ireland in the way that it happens today and everything in this paper is about achieving that, so there is really nothing in this paper that people could object to and i think it is important to keep repeating what is in this paper because there
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has been so much construed about why there are problems about reaching a solution. everything here is in keeping with what happens in the back of the uk and eu already and inept international trade across the world —— in international trade. as been said already, there is an existing border already, for vat, for excise, for currency and all of those are managed and away without any infrastructure the current border it self and that is why there will need to be new checks brought in to ensure the integrity of the single market and customs union, there is no need for any additional checks on the border at all. we are not talking about the movement of people, that is dealt with under the common travel area and has been since 1923 and will continue post—brexit. we are talking simply about the movement of goods and i point you to some of the highlights
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in the paperto point you to some of the highlights in the paper to look at in more detail. as highlighted by hans, we are looking at a trusted deal to broker alliance, custom brokers for alignment and arrangements, border inspection posts away from the border and hans gave a great example of rotterdam, where the posts are up to 20 kilometres away. and we are talking about small operator exemptions using electronic declarations to make that happen. agricultural produce is a key issue at this paper covers that quite extensively. we could agree equivalence of the same way that the eu has agreed equivalence with canada, there is no reason that cannot happen and we can use the common system of common bio—security zones common system of common bio—security zones in order to maintain animal security across the island of ireland and that could continue. all of these solutions in this paper are reasonable solutions and are already
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in existence, so could be scaled up pretty quickly. and from my time on the select committees, what i heard of time and time again from expert evidence is that where there is a political will, these measures can be introduced relatively quickly and easily and we hope that the government will look at our proposals in this paper and take them seriously and take them forwards. thank you. it is now our particular honour to welcome lord trimble to talk to us, who is one of the architects of the belfast agreement, winner of the architects of the belfast agreement, winnerofa the architects of the belfast agreement, winner ofa nobel the architects of the belfast agreement, winner of a nobel prize andl agreement, winner of a nobel prize and i think his mere presence... refutes the claim that people in the rg refutes the claim that people in the r6 are not serious about the good friday agreement. it has been suggested that, in some way, brexit isa suggested that, in some way, brexit is a threat to the belfast agreement and might somehow cause a reversion
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to violence. i think both those propositions are completely wrong. completely wrong. there is no point at which what is happening on brexit interferes with the good friday agreement and its operation. and there is no serious threat, i think, of violence because we have sorted that issue, partly through the agreement itself, but also partly through the way in which our security forces north and south have been successful. so we asked dealing with some claims for which there is no real proposition, but also dealing with something else. at the moment, the european union, michel barnier, is insisting that whatever happens under brexit, northern ireland must remain within the common travel or be subject to the
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common travel or be subject to the common travel or be subject to the common travel area requirements and be there for, to that extent, distinct and no longer fully part of the united kingdom. the bracelet principle in the good friday agreement is a principle of consent, dealing with political fissures and political future of northern ireland, it is a question of consent and here we have brussels and michel barnier suggesting that northern ireland should no longer be part of the united kingdom for the purposes of trade. now, that is contrary to the agreement, it is a breach of the agreement. if anything the agreement, it is a breach of the agreement. ifanything is the agreement, it is a breach of the agreement. if anything is likely to lead to instability, this is it. thank you very much, david. and, finally, david davis, who obviously knows more about how to negotiate with the european union, the intractability of such discussion, about rapidly than anyone else on the panel. thank you. the first
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thing to say is this is an important issue, nobody should downplay the importance of this issue, as i think you have seen already today and no one takes it more seriously than the british government and i don‘t think anybody should question that, either. two very important points. what this report, which i commend to you, this erg report, a very expert report makes playing is the context of this, how big this is. this is actually less than 5% of the northern ireland economy, a smaller fraction of the republic of ireland, a smallerfraction still fraction of the republic of ireland, a smaller fraction still of the united kingdom and are very, very small fraction, a tiny fraction of 196, small fraction, a tiny fraction of 1%, of the european union and, run properly, as described in this paper, it is simply no threat whatsoever to the integrity of the single market. that is something else which we take seriously. the second thing the paper does and you have heard it two or three times already today is that it remind you that there is a border there
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already. this is not a non—border, it is an invisible border and therefore there are mechanisms that deal with that border. you have heard vat, excise, judicial, currency, it is a very serious border and the mechanism for all of thoseissues border and the mechanism for all of those issues exist already. there are three reasons for borders. no—one is fiscal, that is tariffs and vat, corporation tax, excise and duty. one is regulatory and one is origin, controlling rules of origin. the paper deals with all of those things very well. on the fiscal front, the european union has offered a zero tariff no quota arrangement, so there is no question of any additional financial transaction having to take place at the border than takes place now. that is why the mechanism that works will work now afterwards. on the rules of origin front, people talk about hundreds of crossing points, but there are only half a dozen or
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so ways into northern ireland. five commercial ports and a couple of airports. the idea that you cannot control the rules of origin, the origin of goods from outside the european union coming in nominally through belfast say and into the south and therefore the european union is controllable, as the paper makes clear. on a regulatory front, you have heard before, there are four real north—south regulatory issues, one is agriculture about one issues, one is agriculture about one is electricity market, one is road transport and one is waterways. we will not pollute waterways, we will not reduce the safety of the transport and on the single electricity market, there are already special arrangements, carve outs of the carbon tax arrangements and on agriculture, as owen said, there is a single epidemiological or what the paper calls bio—security area, to protect the south and therefore everybody else, in the events of break—outs of disease, bse orfoot and events of break—outs of disease, bse or foot and mouth and so on. so the
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paper is a fabulously practical, sensible approach to this and the only way we are going to resolve this issue and thereby unlock the negotiation, because that is what this is about, this is about unlocking the negotiations, the only way you can do that is by engaging ata way you can do that is by engaging at a practical level, which this paper does in a way which the union has not yet done. so i commend it to you for its common sense, its practicality, its effectiveness, in dealing with all of the serious issues whilst at the same time delivering on the promise to the british people to leave the single market, leave the customs union and therefore leave the european union. thank you very much. thank you very much, david. the exam question that we set ourselves, and i think we have and said, is can we ensure that the border between northern ireland and the republic of ireland is as good as any other external eu border and does any reasonable person think that what we
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have proposed would work? and i am now delighted to open it up to questions. if there are any questions. if there are any questions at all. we'll start with the times. there was a suggestion last week that one of the ideas in the paper might be to allow union officials to look at goods coming into ports such as belfast, may be based in liverpool. i don‘t see any sign of that in the paper. was that something that was considered at any stage? and can you give any other exa m ples of stage? and can you give any other examples of any borders outside a customs union where there is no physical infrastructure at the border? owen come at you want to ta ke border? owen come at you want to take that? we looked at all sorts of ideas, some of which appeared in the papers. the paper stands on its merits. we think this is looking ahead, this is where borders are going. everybody has an image of a border as a stagecoach and then the
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newry road, a big red—and—white stripy pole coming out, man coming out ina stripy pole coming out, man coming out in a hat and bridges and sticking his ladle in a bucket of treacle and pocketing a couple of sovereigns as the coach goes past. it doesn't happen like that. the czechs are going to be at the point of origin —— the checks. how very senior cousin is proposing these sorts of measures to accelerate customs clearance all around the world and the wto very much support this, so i think we will be ahead of the game, we will be leading on this, but i would stress these are all existing techniques and administrative measures. there is nothing new in here. the telegraph, please. two quick questions, jacob rees—mogg. this document appears to be rather similar to the document published by the government last august. what is the killer detail
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that you think holds the eu concerns about the border below the water line? and do you agree with dozens of your own members of the erg but theresa may has to go to deliver a clea n theresa may has to go to deliver a clean brexit? i am surprised at the telegraph lowering the tone in that way. but on the first question, we have set ourselves the question and searing it from the eu's point of view. i went to the meeting of the select committee to meet michel barnier last week and it was quite clear that his concern is maintaining the integrity of the single market and if we can provide a border that is as good as the existing eu borders, then that answers that question to a reasonable personal test, and that is what i think is new about this paper. on the other subject, there i say, listen very carefully, i will say, listen very carefully, i will say this only works because otherwise we will get terribly bogged down and today is about the irish issue, i have long said and
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repeated again and again that i think the policy needs to be changed but i'm supporting the person. theresa may has enormous verges, she isa theresa may has enormous verges, she is a fantastically dutiful prime ministerand is a fantastically dutiful prime minister and she has my support, i just wanted to change one item of policy and not a happy note, we will go to the sun. —— on a happy note. brexit result of the british public on taking back control and slashing red tape. how in any way is asking non—... currently exempt small businesses to sign up to vat in order to voluntarily register their goods across borders and here it talks about proactive trading standards inspectors, that sounds a lot like eu officials being able to do spot checks in britain after brexit. how is that taking back control and how is this any different from chequers? and to the politicians on the panel, jacob has made his views very clear, he says the erg is a research group. we last night researching ways to get rid of the prime minister? the last one, i
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will deal with that now and i have made very plain from when i resigned and thereafter that i think we have got a very good prime minister and, like jacob, i disagree with her on one issue, it is this issue and she should stay in place, because we need stability and decent government as the backdrop to what we are doing in the coming six months. do you wa nt in the coming six months. do you want to add on the...? in the coming six months. do you want to add on the. . . ? yes, the key issue here is small traders. the ideal outcome would be for the eu to agree an exemption from these procedures for traders under the vat threshold, as clearly they already do for the purposes of the 18. the question would be extending it to other forms of declaration of other exports. that is what this paper would like to see is entirely consistent with the approach taken by the eu in other contexts. if that is not something they can agree to,
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the option is open to smaller businesses under the threshold to voluntarily register for vat, which many of them do already, because it enables them to claim back of vat on their exports. it is not an ideal solution but we think it is workable and would only apply to a very small number of businesses. we did actually propose exemption of those people. thank you very much, by your own admissions, not very much is new in this paper and it is quite similar to some of the ideas the government have put forward previously. what is it that bakes you think that as a group, eitherthe uk government it that bakes you think that as a group, either the uk government or the uk union would accept these proposals
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