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tv   BBC News  BBC News  September 28, 2018 7:00pm-7:31pm BST

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country together say that we would feel better, i am not expecting for them to vote yes, but not to complain that an fbi investigation has not occurred. you are watching continued live coverage of the senate judiciary committee, a vote hasjust coverage of the senate judiciary committee, a vote has just been passed to forward the nomination of judge kavanaugh, but confusion at the moment, her was a motion put forward by the republican senator jeff fla ke forward by the republican senator jeff flake for a pause in the final vote to allow a possible fbi investigation of the allegations which have been put in front of the senate committee, it is this which has been discussed at the moment.|j would encourage the democrats who we talked to her to endorse that kind of thing, that we can then move on. because of the two our rule, we are adjourned. what? we did think that
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we would have the vote that was taking place today, thisjudiciary committee hearing started earlier today on capitol hill, the vote which was taking place was to approve the nomination ofjudge brett kavanaugh, approve the nomination ofjudge brett kava naugh, the approve the nomination ofjudge brett kavanaugh, the full senate vote would have ta ken brett kavanaugh, the full senate vote would have taken place next week but what has now happens is that a motion has been put forward for a one—week pause for the full senate vote to allow for a potential fbi investigation. let's cross live to gary o'donoghue in washington, a moment of confusion, take us through what we've witnessed in the last 5-10 what we've witnessed in the last 5—10 minutes. what we've witnessed in the last 5-10 minutes. you thought you were getting to the end of the story but you are not, another twist in an extraordinary process which has divided this congress and this
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country. what we have seen today is jeff flake, the republican senator from arizona, opponent to donald trump, a man stepping down later this year, he said he would back the nomination of brett kavanaugh, it was a key republican vote because that made it ii—io was a key republican vote because that made it 11—10 on the committee, however during the morning he has been talking to democratic senators and talking to other republicans, he has come under enormous pressure and now as they were about to vote less out of committee he has said what i wa nt to out of committee he has said what i want to see now is the full vote of the senate delayed by a week which was due to happen monday or tuesday next week, i wanted delayed so the fbi can investigate the allegations of sexual assault made so dramatically yesterday, the technicalities of this are quite
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important. they committed themselves cannot decide when the floor vote ta kes cannot decide when the floor vote takes place, that is up to the leader of the house mitch mcconnell, the senate leader in negotiation with his democratic counterpart chuck schumer. they cannot guarantee anything, they cannot guarantee anything, they cannot guarantee anything in terms of the timing of the floor vote but he has said he will work to try to persuade the senate leader mitch mcconnell that a week ‘s delay is a good thing. jeff fla ke week ‘s delay is a good thing. jeff flake has said he would not be co mforta ble flake has said he would not be comfortable with the vote going ahead on the floor of the senate if that was not the weeks delay and another fbi investigation. lots of if‘s and but‘s, will somebody asked the fbi to go and do some enquiries and interviews? can they do that in the space of seven days? jeff flake has said no more than seven days, but an extraordinary development, it is no true this committee has voted
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brett kava naugh out is no true this committee has voted brett kavanaugh out of committee, they have confirmed their view he should be the next supreme court judge but it comes with massive strings attached from the arizona senatorjeff flake who has thrown a huge spanner in the works in this last moment and it will send congress and the republican party into a tailspin. they thought they we re into a tailspin. they thought they were getting there despite the difficulties of yesterday, the drama of yesterday, the horror of these personal discussions and allegations and the tears of yesterday, despite all that they thought they were getting there and know they are looking at another ten, 11 days perhaps all possible other stories coming out, fbi's enquiries, interviews with witnesses raking over this whole business again for another ten days. extraordinary moment here. we will leave it there
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for now, thank you. the vote on party lines came after republican senatorjeff flake made those comments about his concerns, listen in. i have been speaking with a number of people on the other side, conversations ongoing for a while with regards to making sure we do judo legends here and i think it would be rubber to delay the floor vote for up to but not more than one week in order to let the fbi do an investigation limited in time and scope to the current allegations. that was the arizona senatorjeff fla ke, that was the arizona senatorjeff flake, in washington for us is henry olsson, seniorfellow at flake, in washington for us is henry olsson, senior fellow at the ethics and public policy centre and an editor where he writes about populism and politics around the
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world, this must be fascinating viewing for you, are you surprised by the result of this, ii—io viewing for you, are you surprised by the result of this, 11—10 to move forward to the senate? by the result of this, 11—10 to move forward to the senate ?|j by the result of this, 11—10 to move forward to the senate? i am not surprised it moved forward given jeff flake's surprised it moved forward given jeff fla ke's announcement surprised it moved forward given jeff flake's announcement earlier today he was going to vote yes, he would have to break his word to the people but he found a way to have a face—saving compromise and try and getan face—saving compromise and try and get an investigation. it's unprecedented but it's not terribly surprising in light of the conflicts he's been going through over the last week. what about this motion he put forward, were you expecting that? the argument is due diligence, fairenough? that? the argument is due diligence, fair enough? i think he had a last—minute change of heart after being ambushed by the sexual assault survivor in the elevator, he had already committed to voting yes and then she and would other things were
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going on behind the scenes that we don't know about persuaded him that he ought to take the democrats side and asking for a further investigations so he found a creative way to have his cake and eat it too. i am surprised about the way it came out, i expected him to do it before he announced he was voting yes this morning so he ended up voting yes this morning so he ended up being roughly when i thought he was going to be. we need to find more facts and that means we need more facts and that means we need more time. this one-week delay for a potential fbi investigation follows allegations put before the senate committee, how likely is that to move this forward? i think it depends how many people are willing to talk to the fbi, if you find people who are already implicated and it called by the fbi and will not talk that fact will be noted and will be prejudicially noted, for
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example markjudge who is at the centre of things,... henry i apologise we are just greedy for a moment because lindsay graeme is having whatjeff is saying makes sense to me. inaudible i don't know, i'm not speaking for him. somebody has to explain this to trump sol him. somebody has to explain this to trump so i guess that's myjob. laughter inaudible ifiam inaudible if i am nothing i am practical, 0k? that was lindsay graeme, i don't know if you heard what he said,
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henry, the editor of unheard .com, he said somebody has to explain this to trump, what's trump got to do all this, should the supreme court not be above all this? trump us to order the fbi investigation, it is part of the fbi investigation, it is part of the executive branch, if we are having an fbi investigation, the executive must order it and that means ultimately it comes down to president trump so that is what that has to do with president trump. how likely is the fbi investigation to go forward? i would think that presuming there are other senators who are backing senator flake such as senator collins or senator murkowski there is not 51 votes or 50 votes to move the nomination through and that means senator conneu through and that means senator connell will go to the president and say please give these people they wa nt say please give these people they want limited to a week and that is
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how we get the nominee three and that president will reluctantly agree. a week is not long, was at a concessionary timeframe put forward do you think? i think he could not presumably asked for more time and have that in the republican caucus, the republicans are under pressure from their base to vote the nominee out, they believe the nominee has been subjected to unjustified personal character assassination and again, politics is often the art of compromise and a week is probably the most the republican establishment can tell their base the investigation will go on for and not have a voter revolt. in reaction to the motion from jeff flake and believe one of the senators made the comment for the good of the senate and the good of the american people, the american people watching this, high devices have this been because
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yesterday we were talking about how partisan it had become, is this how you would describe the american reaction to what they are witnessing? if you are interested in politics it's been incredibly divisive and very better and personal. what you saw yesterday was a reflection of how people think and talk about this, it's not a question of politicians running away... henry i apologise, again a quick pause, henry blumenthal is speaking.|j appreciate he wants to know more and he believes this delay is the responsible step to take. all that said let me be very blunt, before we ended i was about to be recognised to make this point and motion, that this fbi investigation has to be real, and penetrating so that the
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truth and facts and evidence are all uncovered, this investigation cannot be sure charade, it must be real and it must go to the witnesses who are likely to produce facts and evidence. is it your understanding the jeff flake had the assurances of other senators and his party before making this move? senator flake talked to a number of senators in his own party as well is on our side andi his own party as well is on our side and i appreciate he was seeking common ground. what can he and his colleagues do if the leadership press ahead with the vote anyway? obviously he could vote against the nomination. has he told you he would do that? he has not indicated what he would do but following the wishes for his delay, they need his vote, along with all of the other members
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of the majority. thank you. who initiate is these conversations today, was attending? initiate is these conversations today, was attending ?|j initiate is these conversations today, was attending? i cannot comment. that was richard blumenthal calling for a real and penetrating investigation, henry, the editor at unheard .com. the real and penetrating, along with carey booker who was calling for, or questioning the need to rush this appointment, it seems as if the democrats have got what they have been asking for? they have got part of what they have been asking for, a time—limited investigation but not an investigation but not an investigation that presumably would go on past the midterms, that was a crucial question the republicans would not and could not hold on if they did not want to have a voter
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revolt from their base. what you haveis revolt from their base. what you have is six or seven people whose names have been identified who had not been called before the committee, they will presumably be called by the fbi, they will be put if not under oath, it's a federal crime to lie to the fbi and within a week you can get six or seven people sitting down with the fbi providing information and that becomes public knowledge and whatever they tell the fbi, if it is a lie they can be prosecuted. let's turn to the midterms, a lot of the analysis has been that both sides it's risky game to play. it's a very risky game to play, a number of states where suburban educated women who are particularly up in arms about this are particularly up in arms about this a re necessary particularly up in arms about this are necessary for republicans to win but a number of states where democrats are trying to hold seats in places were donald trump carried massively, trump has been very
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supportive of brett kavanaugh and both sides have vulnerable members with vulnerable seats and different pressures . with vulnerable seats and different pressures. the compromise delays this for a week and will allow both sides to see what comes out, whether something supports the allegations of dr ford or gives further credence to the claims ofjudge kavanaugh. looking back at the testimony yesterday from judge kavanaugh a lot of people say he delivered a performance that was expected of him and perhaps suggested by donald trump? i have no idea whether it was suggested by donald trump, i have seen statements that said it was 100% him but he did what he needed to do in the sense he needed to be credible, he needed to be emotional, he needed to show he was deeply offended by what he has argued are unfounded and scurrilous charges and in doing so he energised republican voter and... i apologise,
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interruption again, donald trump is speaking. maybe we will go and watch together. i think it will work out very well for the country. i wanted to work out well for the country, if that happens i am happy. have you thought about a replacement for judge kavanaugh? not even a little bit? inaudible i have no message, they have to do what they think is right but there is no message, they have to do what they think is right, they have to be comfortable with themselves and i am sure they are. would you be willing to or reopen the background investigation into brett kavanaugh? iam going investigation into brett kavanaugh? i am going to rely on everyone including the senator who is doing a very good job, they will be making some decisions on whether to take a vote or do whatever else they want to do, i will be reliant on what
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senator chuck grassley and the group decide to do. inaudible we will talk about venice well, i am waiting for that question, we will be discussing venezuela, a lot of interesting things going on, chile is something special, how far they have come and how well run the country is, i just have come and how well run the country is, ijust want to see it's an honour to be with you, a great honour, thank you. thank you very much everybody. you are watching bbc news, those comments are sure time ago from president donald trump after the vote this evening by the us senate panel, considering the nomination of brett kavanaugh, it voted ii—io nomination of brett kavanaugh, it voted 11—10 to approve the nomination but of course that has to be voted on by the entire senate,
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donald trump unusually staying out of this hugely contentious row saying he would be entirely reliant on their committee to come to its decision and to those senators who will vote on this, we expect next week and we've had the move to try to delay a final vote by a week to allow an fbi investigation into the allegations of sexual misconduct. let's speak to amy pope now, associate fellow at chatham house, and former counsel to the us senate judiciary committee. thanks forjoining us, our let's look at what has happened now after these hugely emotional and highly contentious and very dramatic hearings, this committee has voted to approve brett kavanaugh's nomination. that's right, not surprisingly it's on party lines and
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anyone would have predicted that when this whole thing started no matter what transpired along the way. what is important is what senatorjeff flake way. what is important is what senator jeff flake has way. what is important is what senatorjeff flake has asked for, thejudiciary senatorjeff flake has asked for, the judiciary committee senatorjeff flake has asked for, thejudiciary committee has no ability to tell the majority leader how to run the floor saw in some ways whatjeff how to run the floor saw in some ways what jeff flake how to run the floor saw in some ways whatjeff flake is asking for is irrelevant but what is clear is he will saying i will not vote for your nominee or i will have concerns about voting for the non—amiga and i should go through the process and thatis should go through the process and that is the power of what he has asked. they are talking about a delay of no more than a week for the fbi to investigate, who will decide whether that investigation goes ahead? that decision has to come to the executive branch but it's not the executive branch but it's not the president's decision, it's made by the attorney generaljeff sessions pour through the fbi itself, it would be inappropriate for it to be done through political channels, it will now go to the law enforcement channels. president
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trump seemed to suggest he is going to stay out of the next steps unless, he's going to leave it up to the process to unfold with the senators making our decision. but he's made it pretty clear he still wa nts he's made it pretty clear he still wants this nomination to go ahead. he has made it clear and putting himself in the middle of it does not do himself any good for the process, there is a tough fight happening, mid—term elections coming at the end of november, many members want the president to keep out of it because complicating issue for them. the more this proceeds in an orderly fashion, the more it looks more not like a circus but there is real process the better it is for all the members involved particularly the republicans. we had this move to have an fbi investigation, the democrats involved in this process are keen for that to happen, they clearly believe that investigation
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could lead to further evidence, further allegations against brett kavanaugh. in the past week we've seen several new allegations surface. those allegations have not been tested. with all the publicity going on over the last week more allegations could surface so the democrats are trying to buy some time to figure out whether there is more here that what we heard yesterday from dr ford. what do you expect to happen next?|j yesterday from dr ford. what do you expect to happen next? i expect we will have a week ‘s break because i think the senate majority leader needs to go along with that, he loses too many votes if he doesn't. ina loses too many votes if he doesn't. in a week's time i think the question is what has surfaced, either more allegations, republicans will have a hard choice to make, on the one hand the president is the president who has the ability to nominate any other conservative judge, any other candidate so there
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will be a political calculation, do they wasted the political capital with a number of women who may be undecided at this point about it turns by pushing forward a nominee if there are still questions about his and passed. republican senators should decide that it would be better under the circumstances to block this nomination, confident that the president will then put forward another right wing candidate to fill the place on the supreme court. they have a tremendous amount of time, even if the republicans lose the senate in november they still have until january lose the senate in november they still have untiljanuary to put forward another candidate so it might become too politically costly for them to hold onto this guy but i think on the other hand they are calculating that this is plain to the base, some group of americans out there who are frustrated by what they perceive as political
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correctness, the bully boys will be boys, so they are relishing the judge pushing back against the accusations and this isn't powering them and making it more likely they will go out and vote in november and that's what the government wants, they need people to vote. it's been a hugely political as well as personal drama unfolding here, in terms of the post itself it's a hugely powerful position on the supreme court because the nomination will tip the balance. that's right, justice kennedy was a moderate who had been nominated by a republican so how much it tips the balance has a lwa ys so how much it tips the balance has always been a question but i think what is troubling about what we've seenin what is troubling about what we've seen in the last 2a hours is that judge kavanaugh has come out as overtly partisan, he has blamed the democrats and called into question whether or not he is objective. the
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key thing about this is that it's not just party political key thing about this is that it's notjust party political is it? you mentioned the #metoo movement, these allegations have surfaced and there will be many women across the united states who will be wanting to see red percussions from what's been alleged against brett kavanaugh and feel if he was to go ahead and assume feel if he was to go ahead and assume such a hugely powerful position that that, the signals that would send out could be hugely damaging for the republicans.|j think that's right, as diane feinstein said this is a job interview for brett kavanaugh and does he have the temperament and character, does he have the experience to serve the nation ‘s highest court? the reason that matters is that all of this that is happening in the policy space, to the extent it's contested will be coming before the court eventually and that means the morejudge kavanaugh and that means the morejudge
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kava naugh looks to and that means the morejudge kavanaugh looks to be partisan the more concern people have that he's not an objective arbiter. we are just hearing from chris cairns, one of the senators, let's hear.|j just hearing from chris cairns, one of the senators, let's hear. i think there was enough doubt raised yesterday by the testimony of dr ford that a number of senators felt if the investigation was justified. did jeff flake mention the protest and say anything about his state of mind? i would encourage you to talk to senator flake, but i would say this he's a genuine conservative who's written a book about the conscience of a conservative, we don't share a lot of political views but we share a deep concern. sorry, senator flake and i share a deep concern for the health of this institution and what it means to the rest of the world and our country if we are unable to conduct ourselves respectfully and in a way that here's each other. in the back
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hallway conversation and number of our colleagues also had very sharp conversations with each other about some of the parties in ship and the posturing. i think what senator fla ke posturing. i think what senator flake is trying to do is achieve a brief and credible investigation into the allegations in front of us and serve as a role model as he has for me today for someone who's willing to dig a real political risk and upset many in his party by asking for a pause so the american people can here we are able to work together on some things, that even though he and i are from different parties with different values and backgrounds we respect one another and can work together. i have travelled to countries in other places in the world with senator fla ke places in the world with senator flake and know how he feels that the division right now teaches the wrong thing to the world about our democracy and suggests we are not
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able to respect each other or work together. if you look at his voting record in the last congress and mine they are almost as far apart as they can be but we respect one another and can work together. what would you think the impact on the country would be if there had not been this call for a one—week pause. would be if there had not been this call for a one-week pause. exactly my concern is expressed in my speech earlier today, my concern was that by bowling through this investigation without an investigation without an investigation it would send the wrong signal. could you elaborate on the conversations, you said sharp conversations on the back... anyone who watched the hearing process yesterday are the speeches before the mark—up today knows there are members of the committee who are accusing each other is of all sorts of things, my comment was that senatorjoe biden as a senator once said to me you can always question and other colleagues priorities or
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their policies but you should not question their character or motives, there is too much questioning of each other‘s character and motives and there were some questions about how we need to lighten the extent to which we are going after each other personally. thank you all very much. there we have chris koons, i am still with any pope, associate fellow at chatham house, what you make of what he just had to say? what we are seeing is very dumb moralising in terms of the nomination regarding the supreme court justice nomination regarding the supreme courtjustice candidates the court is meant to be nonpartisan, nonpolitical, what has been happening the last couple of days has deeply politicised the process, it's not a surprise there are partisan questions about abortion or gun rights but when it comes down to
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this process here the fact the judge himself has taken on such a partisan bent to his response to questions is the peace people should be worrying about. thank you very much indeed for joining about. thank you very much indeed forjoining us. we arejoined know who buys scott clucas the professor of american studies at the university of birmingham, thanks very much indeed forjoining us, let's look at what's has unfolded, this committee has approved the nomination of brett kavanaugh it's still to be voted on by the entire senate, we know have this week pause for the fbi to investigate what do you see is the next key steps? we might not have a week pause, this is where the drama continues. by voting
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11-10 with where the drama continues. by voting 11—10 withjeff where the drama continues. by voting ii—io withjeff flake supporting the majority have moved this on to the full senate, we heard jeff thwaites say he boat was conditions —— jeff fla ke say say he boat was conditions —— jeff flake say he boat was conditioned on a one—week and investigation supporting the democrats views. but thatis supporting the democrats views. but that is only a personal opinion, it's not binding on the republican leadership in the senate especially mitch mcconnell who vowed only one week ago to push through the confirmation of brett kavanaugh as soon as possible. the problem is that if he proceeds goes ahead and has the pull bought in the senate before the fbi investigates there are certain key republican senators that might affect. there is only a 51-49 that might affect. there is only a 51—49 majority for the republicans and jeff flake is one of the 51, so our senators, lisa murkowski of

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