tv Victoria Derbyshire BBC News March 1, 2019 10:00am-11:01am GMT
hello it's friday, it's 103m, i'm victoria derbyshire. today — two men tell our programme exclusively that they were sexually abused hundreds of times by michaeljackson — we'll hear from them and the director of a new documentary on the sexual abuse claims. first he would tell me what this is, this sexual activity, is because he andi this sexual activity, is because he and i love each other and this is how we show our love. then he would immediately follow that up with, if anybody else in the world ever found out what we were doing, people are ignorant, they wouldn't understand, and what would happen is you and i would go to jailfor the rest and what would happen is you and i would go to jail for the rest of our lives. we'll bring you that interview in five minutes. the ex—boyfriend of louella fletcher—michie will be sentenced this morning for her manslaughter
after supplying her with a drug called 2cp. we've been investigating these types of drugs — and bring you the story of 18—year—old alex ryan who died in 2016, after taking a drug called the n—bomb. you know, it'sjust one drug, one drug that he took that cost probably less than £20. and it ruined everybody‘s life. and — it's the end of week two of our series in which a house full of students try to live more sustainably and so try to use less of the world's natural resources. this week, it's all about plastics. this is not bad in here. you're already using a lot of tupperware, which is great, but you're using cling film over the top of your tupperware. that's probably helen. why? jay will tell us how they got on.
hello. welcome to the programme. we're live until ”am this morning. in a moment we'll bring yuo the interview with two men who claim mj sexually abuised them when they were young boys. lots of you have already been getting in touch on this. elinor on twitter: so many people automatically assuming mj's innocence. they don't know. neither do i." "also the people asking "why now?" obviously know nothing about the effects of childhood abuse. lima on twitter: it's hard to believe. micheal is known for his good character. also, his close family members know him better than anyone. they defend him. you're welcome as always to get in touch — send us an email use the #ictorialive on twitter and text 61124 — texts charged at the standard network rate. all that after the news with annita.
two men have told this programme they were abused hundreds of times by michaeljackson. wade robson and james safechuck, seen here alongside the film director dan reed, are the two alleged victims in a documentary, leaving neverland, due to be broadcast on channel 4 next week. michaeljackson‘s family have insisted there is not one piece of evidence to support the allegations. and you can hear victoria's full interview with wade and james, in the next few minutes. social media firms are being told to do more to protect children, after data obtained by the nspcc showed more than 5,000 online grooming offences were recorded by police in england and wales in the last 18 months. the figures also suggest instagram, facebook and snapchat were used in 70% of cases of sexual communication with a child since it became an offence in april 2017. the charity has accused social media firms of ten years of failed self—regulation. a member of the house of lords has been charged with two counts of attempted rape. south yorkshire police says the former labour peer lord nazir ahmed of rotherham has
also been charged with one count of indecent assault. two other men have also been charged. all three men will appear at sheffield magistrates‘ court on 19th march. a damning report has found that problems with the part privatisation of the probation service in england and wales have cost taxpayers almost £500 million. under the changes, 21 companies were awarded contracts to supervise low and medium—risk offenders. the national audit office says the government's approach to the reforms meant they were destined to fail. ministers say they take the findings very seriously. the united states is offering a reward of up to $1 million for information about one of the sons of 0sama bin laden. it says hamza bin laden is emerging as a key figure of the islamist militant group, al qaeda, which was led by his father until he was killed by us special forces in 2011. a woman who carried an artificial heart in a rucksack
after her own was removed, has died from transplant complications. rebecca henderson from 0xfordshire was one of only two people in the uk who'd been using the ground breaking technology of an artificial heart outside her body, while waiting for a transplant. she was given the green light to receive a donor organ, after scans showed she had been free of cancer for a year. but her relatives say she died on wednesday, surrounded by family and friends. that's the latest news — back to you, victoria. thank you very much. it is 10:05am. our main interview this morning includes graphic content of a sexual nature, so if you are watching with young children or might find it upsetting or disturbing you may want to turn down the volume for the next 25 minutes. two men have exclusively told this programme that they were abused hundreds of times by michaeljackson, from the ages of seven and ten.
wade robson and james safechuck, who are now 36 and 40, are the two alleged victims of jackson at the centre of film maker dan reed s documentary leaving neverland, which is being shown on channel 4 next week. wade robson in the past has defended the star — including in court — over child abuse accusations. now mr robson and james safechuck say they were victims of the global star. michaeljackson‘s family say there's "not one piece of evidence" to prove the claims. both men sued the jackson estate and were unsuccesful — the cases were dismissed on technical grounds, in one case because a judge said mr robson had waited too long to make the allegations. both men are appealing against that decision. i've been speaking to wade robson and james safechuck — and also the director of this documentary, dan reed. thank you for talking to us. wade andjames, thank you for talking to us. wade and james, i'd like to ask you first of all, why you have chosen to speak out now.
for me, i couldn't do it any earlier time in my life. i wish that i could have, you know? but there were a series of events in my life, most notably beginning with the birth of my son, which led to two nervous breakdowns, the second of which led to me disclosing the abuse from michaeljackson for the first time in my life. i had been keeping it silent for 22 or so years. once i began that process of speaking it for the first time and beginning the healing process, at some point in that healing process this desire arose in me to try and take this horrible thing, this bad thing that happened to me, and do something good with it. so the question for me was, how could i find a way to tell the truth now, now that i can, and tell my story in a detailed way that would help
other survivors feel not so alone, to help other survivors‘ stories feel validated, and to raise awareness as to how abuse can and does happen? james, i can see you nodding there. what prompted your decision to speak out? sure. you know, i was suffering for many years from symptoms, and i didn't know where they were coming from. and hearing wade come out, made me realise that there was a reason for how i was feeling.
and that gave me hope, in a sense, that if you know what's causing it then you can begin the path of doing something about it. so that's when i started reaching out to a therapist. and then after talking with a therapist i reallyjust wanted to talk to wade, because ijust wanted to connect with somebody that had been through what i'd been through. and that's what brought me into the court case, and i'm in the court case because i want to fight back for myself and for little james, because nobody was there to fight for him. and i'm old enough now to fight... to fight for him. my mother and father and sister got in for a sort of group photo with michael. and then he and i took some shots alone. i was in a full custom smooth criminal outfit. we showed him some tapes of dancing performances,
things i've been doing over the last two years that he wanted to see. i think it was a friday and he said, you know, "do you and the family, do you guys want to come to neverland for the weekend?" what did you think about being two young boys brought in to the private world, the inner sanctum of michael jackson? yeah. so, for me, before i met michael i was already an incredibly huge fan of michael's. i was obsessed with him. my walls were covered in images of michael. i danced like him, i dressed like him i had my hair permed like him, i had my hair permed and dyed to look like him. i wanted to be him. and then i won a dance competition and the prize was to meet michael, and then two years later we met again. and that's when the relationship began. and when the abuse began. but before the abuse began,
being brought into michael's world, being this little boy from the other side of the world, in australia, being obsessed with this otherworldly figure, michael jackson, and then meeting him and then becoming his friend, him telling me he loved me, bringing me into his world, into neverland which was, you know, a place like no other, especially for a kid like me, wasjust mindblowing. heart exploding. it was the most incredible thing that could ever happen to me, i thought. and then, you know, the experience was... became something different than i ever could have imagined. so, we were like this married couple, and i say
married because we had this mock wedding ceremony. we did this in his bedroom. and we, like, filled out some vows. it's like we're bonded forever. it felt good. and the ring is nice. it has a row of diamonds with a gold band. the wedding ring. it's hard to go back to that moment. james, what was it like for you? well, michael is the biggest star on earth. there were and haven't been stars like that,
the whole world is in love with him. and you're ten years old, and at that age you're looking for attention yourself. so when the biggest star in the world starts to give you attention and tells you that he loves you and that you're special, and then the rest of the world is sort of reinforcing that michael is amazing, everybody thinks he is and you're on tour, it's a surreal experience and it's hard for a 10—year—old to process. the relationship changes over the years. the abuse starts to happen and then it becomes like a relationship between a couple. you both talk in the documentary in a very calm way, in a very low key way, about some really, really
shocking sexual abuse that you say you were subjected to at the hands of michaeljackson. i wonder if you would be comfortable talking to our audience about what happened and how old you were, and over how many years this went on for. yeah. so, michael sexually abused me from the age of seven years old until 1a years old, and the sexual abuse included fondling, touching. my entire body and my penis. i was sexually abused from the age of ten until around 14, and the abuse was very similar to wade's. it starts with him teaching you how to masturbate. it's showing you this new thing that everybody does
and it'll change your life. then you start french kissing. he said i taught him how to do that. and then oral sex starts. he also liked to have his nipples rubbed. yeah. he also attempted to penetrate me only when i was 1a. that was one of the last sexual abuse experiences we had. could i bring in the director of the film dan reed, at this point? what do you think about the way that james and wade have decided to speak out in this way? part of me is astonished nobody has made this film before. it is so long since the abuse took place. i thinkjackson
had an entire career of having little boys in his bed. it seems to be astonishing that only now in 2019 we are really confronting this. i feel incredibly fortunate that wade and james have spoken out so unflinchingly about what was done to them, and have also unfolded, this is what the film is about, the whole story of how they and their families came to terms with what happened to them as little children. i think this is going to be big news for people who love michael's music, but it's also going to be an amazing inspiration for anyone out there who has been a victim of sexual abuse, or families who have been preyed upon by predatory paedophiles. you include a lot of archive footage of both james and wade alongside michaeljackson, leaving hotels, getting into limousines, leaving
limousines, going to never and so on. but why do you think no adults at the time never questioned it, ever thought it was odd or unusual? —— neverland. ever thought it was odd or unusual? -- neverland. i am astonished, it is significant james and wade's mums we re significant james and wade's mums were drawn into this spurious normality. michael projected an image of childlike innocence and made it kind of done that routine that he should also have a little boy on his hand and he spent night after night after night with little boysin after night after night with little boys in his bed, different little boys. do you know how many times michaeljackson abuse do you? countless. countless. there is no way to... every time i was with him, every single time i stayed the night with him, he abused me. yeah. i think it was the same forjames.
i mean, i was with him alone for long periods of time. 0ver many years. it was constant. that is hundreds of times? yeah. you go from your normal lifestyle, day after day everything is the same, to this big star calling your house, wanting to come to your home and have dinner in your home, wanting to spend the night in your little house. he could be anywhere, with anyone in the world and michael wanted to be with our family. this was also overwhelming and like a fairy tale. and i got lost in it, and i know my husband got lost in it too. your mums trusted him. broadly speaking, your families trusted your mums trusted him. broadly speaking, yourfamilies trusted him.
your mums let you sleep in michael jackson's bed with him, sometimes when your mum was sleeping next door. can you describe how michael jackson got them to trust him like that? michael... you know, there is a long grooming process where michael inserts himself into your family and becomes a part of your family, and he grooms the children and he grooms the parents as well. so, you know, it's a meticulous sort of build—up for him to be able to do that, and it takes him a while to build the trust, doesn't happen overnight. so, you know, not letting our parents off or, you know, saying that it's not their fault,
but i think people need to understand that it just doesn't happen... right away. you know? the parents... and he's also a major star. they know him already as well. so there's years of them feeling comfortable with the star they've seen on tv. and it also kind of shows how, you know, michael groomed the world as well. i think most of the time the sexual abuser is not the scary guy in the van, in the alleyway. of course, that happens sometimes. but i think it's the minority of the case. most of the time it's the coach, the teacher, the uncle, the stepfather, the father, the mother, whoever. somebody who is absolutely trusted has gained trust of the child, first and foremost and the whole family, and this was the case. michael made sure from day one that he had, of course, first a really special relationship with me, and then he made sure he had a really special separate relationship with my mother and with my sister and not my father. right from day one,
in an unnoticeable at the time way, he started drawing this wedge between myself and my father, my mother and my father. so he was just a master manipulator. and, yeah, iagree. like, it doesn't let my mother off the hook. my gosh, i wish. especially as a parent now. and, of course, because of what i've been through, i can't imagine all the red flags not going off for me. i mean, not ever letting my son, of course, now, because i've been through this, ever sleep in any other person's bad that i know even. but, yeah. she was also absolutely groomed and manipulated by michael. you use the phrase "that's not to let her off the hook," and in the film you say you don't really have any feelings for your
mum 110w. really have any feelings for your mum now. do you believe she bears partial responsibility for what you say happened to you? yes, there absolutely is, there is absolutely responsibility at my mother's door. there's no denying that. and, you know, my relationship with my mother, thankfully, is continuing to evolve, and we've been going through a lot of healing together, and a lot of honesty and a lot of ha rd stuff. so that relationship is getting better every day. but there's responsibility at my mother's door. there's responsibility, of course, first and foremost at michael's door. there's responsibility at the door of all the other people, all the other employees that were around michael and me and james all the time that looked the other way. ithink... i think, to speak to that too, i mean you can correct me if i'm wrong, but you know, michael he does, he... he makes a wedge between you
and your parents and he he isolates you from everybody else. and so... and then at the same time when you're being abused, a part of you is dying. so you not connecting with your mom is all that sort of working together. so it's not like... it's not that you're blaming and that's why you're disconnected. it's all those... it's all those different ingredients working together sort of pull you away from the world, disconnect you from your parents, and you're starting to die emotionally. so, i think all that. one of the most... one of the most poignant lines in the film is when wade tells his mother about the abuse, you know, two decades later, and she turns to him and she's in floods of tears and she says, "how could you not have told me?" and that's one of the most tragic lines in the film because joy, wade's mum, trusted her son, because she had a very close relationship with him,
to tell her if anything was wrong. and what the predator does is inserts himself into the relationship as a sort of parent figure, as a mentor and creates a deep attachment with the abuse victim, and that's what people don't understand. you will know that the jackson estate have put out a statement. in response to your film. they deny your claims. i'm going to read it in full. "michaeljackson is our brother and our son. we're furious that the media who, without a shred of proof or single piece of physical evidence, chose to believe the word of two admitted liars over the word of hundreds of families and friends around the world who spent time with michael, many at neverland, and experienced his legendary kindness and global generosity. we're proud of what michael jackson stands for. people have always loved to go after michael. he was an easy target because he was unique. but he was subjected to a thorough investigation which included
a surprise raid of neverland and other properties, as well as a jury trial where michael was found to be completely innocent" - in capital letters. "there has never been one piece of proof of anything, yet the media is eager to believe these lies. michael always turned the other cheek, and we've always turned the other cheek when people have gone after members of our family. that's the jackson way. but we can't just stand by while this public lynching goes on and the vulture tweeters and others who never met michael go after him. michael is not here to defend himself. 0therwise, these allegations would not have been made. the creators of this film were not interested in the truth. they never interviewed a single solitary soul who knew michael, except the two perjurors and their families. it's not journalism. it's not fair. yet the media are perpetuating these stories. but the truth is on our side, michaeljackson was and always will be 100% innocent of these false allegations."
michaeljackson was and always is 100% innocent of these false allegations. wade, you defended michaeljackson twice, in 1993 when you were 11, and in court in 2005 when he was acquitted of sexual abuse charges. why did you tell the world then that he had done nothing to you? so, from day one of michael sexually abusing me, he immediately started to tell me and train me on how to lie about what was happening between us. first he would tell me that what this is, this sexual activity, is because he and i love each other. and this is how we show our love. and then he would immediately follow that up with, but if anybody else in the world ever found out what we were doing, people are ignorant, they wouldn't understand, and what would happen is that
you and i would go to jail for the rest of our lives and our lives would fall apart. he and i would be pulled apart. all of this was terrifying to me. and so... one, of course, the idea of going to jail — two, the idea of being pulled away from michael. now, this man this otherworldly figure, this god to me who had now become my best friend, no way was i ever going to do anything that would pull me away from him. and, um, so... that training started day one. it continued all the way through, all through years and years and years, and then when the first allegations popped up in ‘93 i was already ready for it. but as soon as the allegations popped up, michael upped his training of me tenfold and was calling every day and would coach me for hours as to what the cops
are going to say, how they're going to try and do it, how they're going to try and break you down, "they don't have anything it's all lies." "this is what you say, this is what you don't say," every day. so when the first cop showed up at my house i was ready, and i was ready to defend michael and myself because i was, at that point when i was 11, terrified that i would go to jail also for the rest of my life, because that's what michael told me. and anything michael told me was gospel. um, so i was... i was ready to defend michael and myself to the end of the earth. and i did that. and the only way... the way michael taught me to do that was to lie. but this is the truth, now? this is the truth, that michael sexually abused me for seven years. the second case, the criminal trial in 2005 was a similar thing. i was terrified at the idea of people finding out what happened between michael and i. because michael always made me believe that i was complicit in it,
that i wanted itjust as much, if not more, than him. so the idea of people finding this out... i was about to get married at the time, the idea of my wife finding out. i thought, you know, "i guess i was a freak too." if that's what people would think michael was, then i would be a freak too. so maybe my wife would leave me, my career would fall apart my life would fall apart. and also, i still loved michael, and i was still ready to do anything i could to protect him. what has it been like for both of you to talk to each other? to connect with each other. when it premiered at sundance we finally got to spend some, you know, some time together and connect, and it's indescribable. it's just like you're alone and then you're not alone. you know? to finally, after whatever it's been, six years
or so since we started this process with the case, to finally be able to talk, to be together for any length of time. there's just an unspoken... like, technically we don't know each other that well. like, we haven't been around each other very much in our lives at all. right. but i know. . .. but i know him deeper than i know anybody else in my life, beause of what we share, what we unfortunately share, and also what we share in healing, beginning the healing process. right. we understand what each other's going through along the process. thank you all of you for talking to us, gentlemen. and for talking to oui’ us, gentlemen. and for talking to our audience. we really appreciate it. thank you. james safechuck, wade robson, and the documented director dan reed. details of organisations offering information and support with child sexual abuse are available at bbc.co.uk/actionline, or you can call for free, at any time to hear recorded
information on 0800 077 077. and you can watch the documentary leaving neverland next wednesday and thursday night on channel 4 at 9pm. does the testimony of these two men mean you look at michaeljackson in a different light? thank you for some messages. this e—mail says: i ama some messages. this e—mail says: i am a victim of sexual abuse as a child and live with it everyday. i haven't reported it properly because i don't want to relive those moments again. iwant i don't want to relive those moments again. i want to commend wade and james for their strength in speaking out. there should not be a time late on when somebody should speak out. 0ur dignity has been taken away and oui’ 0ur dignity has been taken away and ourinnocence 0ur dignity has been taken away and our innocence has been taken away. don't take away our right to talk about it. this from jan, it is easy to make this accusation is when the person is no longer here. i don't think we will ever know the truth. he was a very troubled individual. it has been ten years since his
death, so why now? jonny e—mails to say: many people have done, or do, horrific things to others yet their own family know nothing about it. howley times do we hear when somebody who is in court and their families say we never knew. michaeljackson faced all of this in the latter years of his life and went through a court of law and now the man cannot defend himself so an opportunity arises and jake simply tweet this, thank you for letting them tell their story. keep those coming in. we have some breaking news. ceon broughton has beenjailed for eight and a half years at winchester crown court for the manslaughter of his girlfriend — louella fletcher—michie — and three charges of supplying drugs. sentenced to eight and a half years for her manslaughter. we will be learning more about the drug that
killed louella later in the programme. its week two of our sustainability month. we ve tasked a house of six students at loughborough university with living more sustainably — and they have a month to do it. this week, we focused on plastics, and our expert lucy siegle set the students the goal of reducing their plastic waste by 75% while also making easy substitutes for everyday items. so, how did they get on? michael cowan reports. 0k. so, overall what you're going to do is the good thing about having a big plastic footprint is that you can make real inroads to that and you're going to get yours down to a quarter of this bag at least. don't look so nervous, amy! what's going through your head when lucy says that? ijust think that is a big task for everyone in here. i know we all are going to struggle with it. are you ready to weigh this bag? yeah. so, this is your plastic collected as a household over a week. ok, so, moment of truth, jay. 1.3 kilos. that is, you know, a lot.
do you mind if ijust have a little look at what is in here? do you mind if i have a delve? go for it. so these are like punnetts. stea k. students eating steak? we want to try and avoid these black plastic trays because these can't be picked up by the lasers. most recycling now is done by laser. the laser can't see through this plastic. this will almost certainly go to landfill or incineration. if you buy something that is in plastic, wrapped in plastic, that's on you. like, don'tjust think, oh, it can be recycled. you need to avoid plastic from the outset because i'm desperate, desperate to get this bag shrunk down to a quarter of the size. i would have just assumed that most stuff you put in the recycling is going to be recycled, but in the long run, i think people when they buy plastic things always think, oh, it's not that bad. i'lljust stick it in the recycling and thinking they're doing a good thing. this is not bad in here.
you're already using a lot of tupperware which is great, but you're using cling film over the top of your tupperware. that's helen. why? you've already got a seal and then you're using plastic on top. i'm going to find the cling film and i'm going to confiscate that for sure. can you hand over your cling film, please? go on, amy. thank you. confiscated. instead of cling film, see how you get on with these. now, these are made from beeswax and you can just keep the food preserved a little bit longer. but in a natural plastic—free way. what i'm going to ask you to do, i'm going to give you this very posh set of on the go utensils. so, these are made of bamboo. and these are all your utensils that you need. look at me in the eyes now and say to me no use of on the go single use plastics. do you commit? yes. yeah! let's go on our way upstairs.
oh, my god! 0k. this is not going to fit. i'm going to have to use my second bin for confiscations. most of that is actually mine. it's mostly yours? how many products are there in here? sorry about that. 0k. one of the things that you need to do to reduce your plastic footprint, is to consolidate the products that you use. this is ridiculous. you are now going to have to cope with fewer products. this is your soap bar. so, that is for shampoo and body. because i'm being really kind to you, and i can see that hair is important, here is a conditioning bar as well. thank you. this is all that you can take into the shower and it's completely plastic free. 0k, toothpaste. i'd like you to try charcoal. so, it's whitening charcoal. you've really lightened the load
because you've gone from all of that to just these simple products. i mean, it's a bit of a difference, isn't it? we wanted to show the students the difference their actions could make. 0n the south coast, we met with just one 0cean's david jones. although it looks pristine, dig beneath the surface and the scale of britain's micro plastic problem is evident. remember i said we had primary micro plastics? these are what generally tend to be these preproduction nurdles. the little things that the industry uses, the plastics industry uses to ship them around. look at how many of those there are and there's different caolours. what does that look like to you? like a little pebble. there are hundreds of thousands of birds that come here, migrate here every year. and they'll be eating it. and this is what they're going to be eating. these cotton bud sticks, lots and lots of cotton bud sticks, basically because people throw them down the loo. so, they're the primary microplastics. you've also got lots of secondary microplastics, little pieces that
have been broken off from larger bits. yeah. and that all came from one quarter of a square metre. when you walked on it, you actually looked at it and thought, "this is a really nice beach, this is really clean", because we couldn't find anything, could we? yeah. but actually when you get down to it, this is what we've got. it was kind of shocking. when i flush it down the toilet, i think this is going to get filtered out. but obviously it doesn't. we head to david's lab. we wanted to see if there was any plastic in our tap water, so we tested samples from across the uk — including one from the student's house. all right, well, let's take that sample and let's do something with it, shall we? yeah, sounds good. the tests were carried out at the university of portsmouth. we only tested a very small number of samples, meaning the results aren't conclusive. in our samples, we found between 118—203 micro particles suspected of being plastic. this was made up of microscopic pieces and fibres. to put this into context, pure water, which has no contamination,
has roughly 60 micro particles in it, meaning our lowest reading was virtually double that of the uncontaminated water. in one sample, the plastic was identified as cling film and in another as nylon. i would have never thought that, like, you know, me drinking a glass of water is going to end up with plastic going through my body. we don't know the impact these micro particles have on our health yet, but it's worrying enough that the world health organisation is currently reviewing the effects of micro plastics on humans. back at the house, things are getting hairy. so, i've just used the bars of soap that we got given, which are shampoo and conditioning and... ..mixed experience. it really makes you smell nice, so that's a perk, but it was very knotty, trying to brush it afterwards. that's probably the only annoying thing, but apart from that, knowing that it's good for the environment makes you think it's worth it. so, yeah.
midway through the challenge, lucy turns up unannounced to check their progress. bleep. hello? hello. just doing a little inspection. i'm not being funny, but it looks like you've had a sort of a plastic festival. they laugh. jay and amy, you're supposed to be my people! 0k... oh, come on! did you try and take your own tubs? what was in here? 0h, burgers. burgers! did someone try and hide that from me? hide that behind the sofa? ah... i was thinking that all the bottles would have crept back in, but no. i think the charcoal toothpaste is really good. you like it? but the taste is a bit off, but you just get used to it. ok, this is better. i'm pleased up here. so, what's been the most challenging part, so far? we've been finding it quite good, all this stuff we've been given, it's substituting it.
so that's quite easy, but when you're actually going out and having to go shopping for yourself, it's a lot harder because itjust does come in all the plastics and it's hard to find substitutes which are reasonable prices for us. realistically, are students going to spend too much money on single burgers, that cost £1.20 from the deli counter or buy a four pack which is £1.50? how have they been doing? not well. the amount of waste that's in the bin is probably a little bit less than last week, but only a fraction. and i think what they've done is they've compacted it. they think if they make it smaller, i won't notice. i did notice! let's talk to amy fitzgerald and jay maheswaran and david jones from portsmouth university who you saw in the film and lucy siegle, the journalist and ecology and lifestyle expert who checked up on them. how hard it was this? it was
difficult buying stuff from shops, like plastic, even that was in fruit. unless you want to spend a lot of money, you can't get cheap plastic free things, everything is plastic free things, everything is plastic in supermarkets stock by amy, was it daunting for you? when i we nt amy, was it daunting for you? when i went to the supermarket with jay, we struggled to find things that didn't have plastic around them that didn't because loads of money. lucy, what is your advice? lots of people would find the same thing. it is outrageous they are having to make those decisions and things wrapped in plastic cost more. the only way to deal with it is attack it and that means sometimes casting your net wider, may be looking at some of the shops that sell things like health food shops, local greengroce rs, attack it and finding is not in plastic. when you are in the supermarket and if they are in plastic, you don't have to do it in the rude way but at the checkout i
would argue you should leave your plastic there, if it's not something you one and it's not something you bought and there was no alternative. because supermarkets have got to get used to are saying we don't accept this any more. would you be bold enough to do that, jay and amy? it's great advice but i don't know if i would be confident enough to do it at the counter? definitely i wouldn't really do that. you have to do or how well supermarkets know? everyone has to start doing it from 110w everyone has to start doing it from now on. i get what you mean but would you actually do it at the counter, realistically? david, micro—plastics, how big a deal are these? a huge problem, all around the world. what we need to do is we need more evidence, we need more science. we need to track it and trace it and know what the scale of this problem is. it's everything from fibres and clothing to the particles we found on the beach. that's a message to all of us consumers, manufacturers,
politicians and so on. we have to address it in a strategic manner. at the moment we have piecemeal reactions which are making a difference, like micro beads and cosmetics, but we have to have a strategy to address it, get the science right and education right and get the innovation right. our challenge continues. amy and jay, you did 0k. challenge continues. amy and jay, you did ok. i feelthere challenge continues. amy and jay, you did ok. i feel there was an impact. where? test we reduced our plastic. a bit, could you do better? we could if we made the house comply. amy, are you going to do that with your fellow students? we did find substituting stuff, like the toothpaste, was a lot easier than going to the shops and reducing it that way. that's a good point. how easy is it to get hold of things like beeswax wraps instead of cling
film and metal stores? it's becoming really easy. especially with online shopping, which amy and jay and the housemates took two immensely thrust at you can get hold of these things easily. it's about the cost per use. these are items that will last and last. as amy and jay keep doing this, they will find they are saving money in the long term and i hope that will help them make difficult decisions about food shopping. thank you all of you for taking part. 0ur next challenges next week. the former boyfriend of louella fletcher—michie has been sentenced to eight and a half years in prison for her manslaughter after supplying her with a drug called 2c—p and then filming her dying. the 24—year—old — who's the daughter of holby city actorjohn michie — was found dead in september 2017 in woodland near the bestival site in dorset after taking the drug given to her by ceon broughton.
well, we've been investigating the family of drugs that includes 2c—p. this shocking picture is one of the last images of 18—year—old alex ryan, who died in 2016 after taking one of those drugs, referred to as the n—bomb, at a house party. three people were charged and received suspended sentences in relation to his death. 0ur reporter noel phillips has been looking at the risks of taking these drugs. singing. my mother misses him terribly. he was her youngest child, and i miss him all the time as well. and you never really think that you're going to outlive your younger siblings. but i have, you know... i only got 18 precious years with him. it's, you know, it'sjust one drug, one drug that he took, that cost probably less than £20 and it ruined everybody‘s life. it's a day nicole will never forget,
watching her 18—year—old brother, alex ryan, die after overdosing on an illegal drug called the n—bomb, otherwise known as 2c—i. alex was at a party with friends in cork in ireland when he and five others collapsed after taking the drug. i don't know. i don't know the details of the party. i'll never know. nobody‘ll ever tell you what actually happened. you're just going on assumptions a lot of the time. most of us have never heard of the 2c family of drugs until the recent death of 24—year—old louella fletcher—michie — the daughter of the actorjohn michie. she's thought to be the first person in the world to die after taking the party drug 2c—p at the bestival music festival in september 2017. her boyfriend, ceon broughton, who was by her side on the day she overdosed has been found guilty of causing her death by supplying the drug and failing to get help.
0n the night alex died, he also went in search of the drug 2c—p. he believed he took 2c—p. the drug was sold to them as 2c—p, but the toxicology report came back and told us that it was the n—bomb, which is extremely psychoactive. and the n—bomb is part of the 2c—p family of drugs isn't it? yeah, the 2c family, like the synthetic psychedelics and there's just kind of... ..there's about a0 or 50 different 2cs out there. but the kind of more known ones are the 2c—p, the 2c—b and the n—bomb. although the n—bomb was banned in 2013 by the government here in the uk, the drug has still managed to find its way into the hands of young people. users of 2c—p say the drug causes extreme hallucinations. it is thought, though, to have only gained popularity in the uk in the last few years, but only us club scene it has been linked to many overdoses. they're dangerous for
a number of reasons. they cause hallucination, they're known as psychedelic drugs and they alter the state of consciousness in the user so that the initial dangers, of course, people become out of control with their behaviour, their actions and their reactions. tony saggers is a former drug detective and is one of few people who has looked at its dangers. these drugs actually upset the body's ability to look after itself. so self—regulation of the body is something that the users of some of the most common drugs, like ecstasy, have been educated to do, but with the 2c family, they look the same. they can sometimes be purchased by mistake, thinking that they are an mdma or ecstasy type substance. similar to the case of louella fletcher—michie, who was reportedly screaming and attacking herself, there were also disturbing accounts of how those at a party which alex attended were hallucinating whilst covered in blood. a short walk from where nicole and lives in cork is the house
where her brother consumed a synthetic drug injanuary 2016. yeah, this is my first time being back at the house. this house that alex took the drug in, where he was last seen alive. he took what he thought was 2c—p. people described, you know, what was going on inside the house as a horror movie. oh, yeah there's people on the streets. there was blood inside the house. they were manic. you know, they were dancing, they were screaming, they were shouting, and it was scary to come across that. and, you know, if you can imagine that there's just one person lying on the floor inside there and nobody even acknowledging that this person is dying. but because 2c—p is relatively new, very little is known about it. but experts say it can cause the body to rapidly overheat and this, along with an increased heart rate and blood pressure, can be extremely dangerous. the danger is twofold. one, in its own right, the 2c family, and some of them are very, very potent, has a great risk of overdose.
it would be not unusual for this type of drug to wait a couple of hours, think nothing is happening and then take another dose before the first one has a chance to kick in. and at that point, you're at real risk of overdose. they're out there and young people don't know about this. but it's notjust young generations. it's older people. they haven't a clue, as well, of what's out there. they don't know that this stuff is out there and it's scary because it's everywhere. nicole now spends her time campaigning about the dangers of illegal substances, including the 2c family of drugs which killed her brother. he donated his liver, two of his kidneys and his heart. so, giving away his organs, it made the whole thing a little bit easierfor us, because as he went into surgery, all four recipients also went into surgery. so, his heart, it still beats today, and it never stopped. and that's just kind
of what keeps us going, to be able to even have the notion that one day we might be able to hear it again. the tragic case of alex. we have just had this from the sentencing of ceon broughton four the death of louella fletcher—michie. herfather saidi louella fletcher—michie. herfather said i wake up every morning facing up said i wake up every morning facing up to the fact i won't have louella in our life up to the fact i won't have louella in ourlife any up to the fact i won't have louella in our life any more. our beautiful louella should still be with us on any measure of humanity. he says, i go to bed every night with the trauma of the image of louella crying out to her mum and dad, brother and sister to help, but there was only ever one person who could have helped. a reference to
ceon broughton, louella's former boyfriend, who was jailed this morning for eight and a half years in connection with the manslaughter of louella fletcher—michie. the coroner examining the deaths of two young soldiers who took their own lives at their base has said the army must do more to encourage soldiers suffering mental distress to come forward for help — without fearing an impact on their careers. lance corporal james ross killed himself six years ago. today, his mother linda is giving her only interview to us and says she feels the army let her son down. three months afterjames' died, rifleman darren mitchell also took his own life, and within the same period there were eight incidents of self—harm. the results of the coroners reports will be delivered to the head of the british army. we can speak to linda now and emma norton from the civil rights group,
liberty. tell the audience about james, linda. james was a normal quy: james, linda. james was a normal guy, grew up james, linda. james was a normal guy, grew up a normal boy. did well at school, very popular, loved sports and got a job after leaving school and decided to go into the ta which led to him going full time into the army. he was ambitious and wa nted into the army. he was ambitious and wanted to move up as quickly as possible, because he was slightly older but generally speaking, he was a good person. he was kind, considerate, thoughtful and worked very ha rd considerate, thoughtful and worked very hard and was ambitious, as i say. why do you believe the army let your son down? they have to look out for triggers. the problem is soldiers hide things that are wrong, because they don't want to be seen as weak. if you are not seen as weak, they are strong, proper soldiers, proper men. but sometimes, when things happen, they need to be able to talk to someone. i think james would have talked to somebody
eventually, but not at the time, because it's classed as being weak and can affect their career.|j because it's classed as being weak and can affect their career. i have and can affect their career. i have a statement from the british army, oui’ a statement from the british army, our thoughts remain with the families. whilst neither individual was identified as being at risk improvements have been made to some of the unit recommendations that place and we'll see if further changes are needed. you say further changes are needed. you say further changes definitely needed? definitely, a number of failings we re definitely, a number of failings were found in this regiment to do with welfare, suicide risk, vulnerability, lack of welfare support that these soldiers are more widely there is a much greater problem about stigma. the stigma of having a mental health problem or if you are struggling are suffering mental distress in the army, soldiers don't feel they can come forward for some dill. some of the units are not providing the right environment for people to come forward. there were comments from some senior members of staff that meant they would not support people
who came forward? yes, one described welfare services as pink and fluffy. very flippant. the army welfare services are brilliant, they were there and ready to help and it took them months to even get a meeting with the head of the regiment. when they did go in, they found that the helpline that was advertised for soldiers to court was years out of date. so if anyone had been calling, if darren or james date. so if anyone had been calling, if darren orjames had called that number, it would have rang through to an empty line. the coroner believe the death of james was an accident, that he didn't intend to ta ke accident, that he didn't intend to take his own life, what difference does that make, if anything? take his own life, what difference does that make, if anything7m doesn't really, because the act of taking his life was taken by him. it doesn't really close off anything. there is no understanding. the only person who knows why he is not here is him. but you think obviously that means something was going wrong? possibly. like i said previously,
they hide it because of the stigmas behind it. they have to man up, basically, and just literally they dare not go to people. james would have been proud, he wouldn't have wa nted have been proud, he wouldn't have wanted to show he was weak. so to me, they need to look at the triggers. that is what we are asking them to do. be more vigilant on the quys them to do. be more vigilant on the guys coming back from afghanistan. jane serve twice in afghanistan. keep looking out for the triggers, because if there is a trigger there, act on it. —— mikejames because if there is a trigger there, act on it. —— mike james served in afghanistan twice. try and push them, to get it out of them, because they weren't give it freely because it will affect their career. the army to be proactive? definitely, it's very important. like everything else, mental health is a big issue. across society, absolutely. thank you both for coming on the programme, we appreciate it.
and if you've been affected by anything you've heard in this interview, go to actionline bbc.co.uk/actionline, or you can call for free, at any time to hear recorded information on 0800 077 077. thank you for your company, bbc newsroom live is next. have a good weekend. good morning. it has been a rather cloudy start to the day but the daffodils here on the river taff end are brightening things up a little bit in cardiff for some david's. for many of us, staying quite cloudy through today. there could be the odd shower across central and eastern parts of england but later on, may be some brightness breaking
through. perhaps even the north—east scotla nd through. perhaps even the north—east scotland and maximum temperatures this afternoon getting up to 9—12. later today, we start to see some rain moving into northern ireland. through tonight, that rain will gradually push its way further east but it will break up as it does so, bringing us some showery outbreaks of rain across eastern areas by saturday morning custom overnight temperatures 5—7. it will be a bright start to the weekend but rain will move its way in quite quickly during saturday and as we get to sunday, storm freya, named by the met office, will give us in very wet and windy conditions, particularly on sunday afternoon. bye—bye.
you're watching bbc newsroom live ? it's 11 am and these are the main stories this morning: the indian pilot captured by pakistani forces has been released, according to local media. the pilot's jet was shot down over kashmir by pakistani military earlier this week. the government agree to pay up to £33 million to eurotunnel, to settle a lawsuit over extra ferry services, in the event of a no—deal brexit. social media firms are urged to do more to tackle child grooming — after 5000 online offences were recorded injust 18 months. destined to fail — a damning report says problems with the part—privatisation of the probation service in england and wales have cost taxpayers almost half a billion pounds. and coming up — a special day of brexit coverage