Skip to main content

tv   Outside Source  BBC News  March 21, 2019 8:00pm-9:01pm GMT

8:00 pm
hello, i‘m ros atkins, this is outside source. all the action is in brussels tonight. theresa may went there today to ask the eu for an extension to brexit. the eu leaders are still hello, i'm ros atkins, in a meeting deciding this is outside source. what their position will be. the brexit story has switched from westminster to brussels. all we know at the moment, theresa may went there today to ask it doesn‘t sound like the eu will give her an extension the eu for an extension to brexit. without laying down some conditions. the eu says there will be strings such an extension should be conditional on a vote next week, not of commons. attached. such an extension should we have done our best. be conditional on a vote next week, not of commons. we have done our best. here in i‘m christian fraser live in brussels, where the 27 eu leaders brussels, the 27 eu leaders have have gone back in for a just taken a break. they will resume shortly, in which brexit will very much be on the menu for dinner. we're here for the next couple of hours to take you through it all,
8:01 pm
send in your questions. christian and i will do our very best ones. —— to answer. the brexit story is evolving by the minute. we thought the eu would agree to a brexit extension until 22 may. but eu leaders are meeting at a summit in brussels. adam fleming tells us... this reporting is backed up by tony connko this reporting is backed up by tony connolly from our te, saying... lots
8:02 pm
of dates are moving around, but we know theresa may has been in lengthy discussions with her eu counterparts. here she is mingling with the 27 other national leaders in the european union. all smiles and pleasantries here, but after the cameras left, some report it was a different story. here's buzzfeed's europe editor alberto nardelli... and this came in from adam fleming quoting a member state diplomat.
8:03 pm
this is theresa may before that meeting. what is important is that parliament delivers on the result of the referendum, and that we deliver brexit for the british people. i sincerely hope that we can do that with the deal. i'm still working on ensuring that parliament can agree a deal so that we can leave in an orderly way. what matters is that we deliver on the vote of the british people. thank you. prime minister, if it fails? what matters — what matters is that we recognise that brexit is the decision of the british people. we need to deliver on that, we are nearly three years on from the original vote. it is now the time for parliament to decide, a short extension gives us that opportunity to decide how to leave the european union, to deliver on that result of that referendum, and i sincerely hope that will be with a negotiated deal. theresa may had asked for an extension to 30 june, but earlier today the eu said no,
8:04 pm
just til may 22. although that's now up in the air again. that's because european parliamentary elections are between 23—26 may. the eu would like to get this done before they happen. but, like we said earlier, things appear to be changing and we could have a new date and this extension comes with conditions. here's michel barnier. the short extension of the departure of the uk, chosen by the uk. such an extension should be conditional on a vote next week. we have done our best. now the solution is in london.
8:05 pm
let's go inside the european council in brussels where the summit is happening. christian fraser is with us. happening. christian fraser is with us. where have we got to, christian? i think we're going round and round, because the word we've heard over the last few minutes is that they may be going to the original text and date of 22 may. by taking out of that text, they said the uk would only get one extension and would not be taking part in the european elections. maybe there are some in the room who feel that box of the uk in and takes a longer extension off the table. but it really comes to the table. but it really comes to the sensitivities around this issue. half the effort is focused on trying to get theresa may some support next week for the deal. they still would like the withdrawal agreement to go through because it is the deal they negotiated with her. but the other half of the discussion is realistic, because they know what the numbers
8:06 pm
are back in the house of commons. they read the newspapers and read the comments. they know right now that theresa may does not have the numbers. they had gone on for 3—4 hours now, and they are breaking at the moment, going back in for a working dinner. theresa may is not in the room and they will discuss brexit their dinner. i think it is just a reminder that you can do all the sherbet carrying of documents, all the planning ahead of something like this, they can talk about what they think might happen. but once they think might happen. but once the 27 l get in the rule without their advisers and they discuss it in the round, things change. things can be highly predictable that a european council summit. there's no other meeting like it. so we are on for two hours, are we certain to get some press conferences? you say that is not a guarantee? i think we are some way away from that at the moment. your right to say that there is some disagreement over that date because we heard from the president
8:07 pm
of the european parliament who said he'd really like a cut off date around 18 may, which is the time when all european countries have to declare whether they are taking part in the european elections. that is where he wants the cutoff date. others say that doesn't give the uk much time, it isjust others say that doesn't give the uk much time, it is just three weeks away. then there is theresa may's day of 30 june, if she was to get the deal through, they also have to have the technical time to put through all the legislation, so they need longer than that. there's this debate going on in the room, and as i say, there are some leaders the irish prime minister who is a little bit disturbed by the impatience and exasperation, which is natural, given where the uk is right now. he says to just step back a moment and not make any rash decisions. let's give the uk space to find a way through. i understand from the position that if theresa may's deal gets there, there is an extension to
8:08 pm
may and brexit happens. but what does that you want to happen if theresa may's deal doesn't get through? that is what i am listing for tonight when these press conferences take place. will the speu conferences take place. will the spell out at all what might happen on the other side of a third meaningful there that doesn't go the prime minister's way? will they go that far, or will they think that undermines the vote next week in the house of commons? i suspect the latter. we won't hear much detail about that. no doubt they are discussing it right now because they don't want to arrive here next thursday with no plan. but perhaps they can't take the real decisions until their backs are against the wall next thursday. i think probably what we will hear tonight is that this deal is the only deal, we are not opening up the withdrawal agreement, take it or leave it. the other side of that, we've heard from emmanuelle macron, is that the default position is no deal. if you wa nt default position is no deal. if you want us to take no deal off the table, you have to give us a
8:09 pm
concrete proposal. whether that is a general election, second referendum, common market to, whatever it is, you have to make a decision and find a majority for an parliament. christian, thank you so much, you will help us throughout this addition of outside source. how can you not have questions on what is happening? send your questions are way and we will answer as best we can if they are indeed answers to the question to ask. let's look at the eu's perspective on this, starting with germany and france. the guardian's berlin bureau chief, philip oltermann... disorderly means a no—deal brexit. here's more of what she said. translation: we can respond fundamentally to this wish if next week we have a positive vote on the withdrawal agreement and the british parliament. nevertheless, given the firm date
8:10 pm
of 30 june, we have to keep in mind the european elections at the end of may. that means the future and the legitimacy of the european elections have to be respected. but of course, then we can talk about a short—term extension. compare that to the french position. we can discuss and agree on an extension, if this is a technical extension, in case of the yes vote on the agreement we negotiated during two years. in case of no vote... i mean, directly, it will guide everybody to a no—deal, for sure. that is it. i've already mentioned how the uk economy would fair under a "no deal" brexit. if you need a reminder, here's the governor of the bank of england. it would be a large negative
8:11 pm
shock to the economy. no deal, no transition. we should be in no doubt about that. but what about the 27 remaining member states of the eu? they'll be affected too. here's the austrian chancellor. well, if there is no support in parliament, then the no—deal scenario gets more and more realistic. and that is not good for the uk, but also not good for us in the eu. one country bracing itself is the czech republic, where the popular skoda cars are made. listen to this. translation: it will really depend on the kind of brexit we'll get. but we're basically talking about losses in car industry revenues worth billions of korunas. but the german finance minister isn't too worried. translation: germany is well—equipped for a further slowing down of the world economy because of brexit,
8:12 pm
or international trade wars. going back to christian in brussels. behind you, there are many journalists covering this story from all the different member states. how are they telling the story? how are they portraying it to their readers and viewers? well they are furiously rewriting some of their copy because things are changing minute to minute at the moment. let me speak to patti smith from the irish times. we have one story coming out that they've taken 22 may out, now they come back to the original? they've gone back to the original? they've gone back to seven may. but not 30 june, which was also being mentioned. it must be stressed that the meeting isn't over yet, it is quite possible things will change again in the course of the next couple of hours. but what we here at the moment is there is an extension of six weeks being offered
8:13 pm
to the uk, that it will be unconditional, in other words, that theresa may would have to put her meaningful vote, but it wouldn't matter whether or not she succeeded in getting it passed initially. 0r if she wanted to take more time to build an alternative to the withdrawal agreement by reaching out across the commons. she would have really until 11 april to come up with an alternative that would come out in the majority. if by 11 april she feels confident enough — she feels she has got a majority for an alternative deal topic please excuse me, it is riotously complicated. if by april 11, the british decide they
8:14 pm
wa nt by april 11, the british decide they want to participate in the european elections on 23 may, she would have to indicate that to the european council, which will then decide whether or not to grant britain a further extension. we don't know, it will depend on what has happened to her in the interim. there are two important facts you set out for us. the six week condition would be —— extension would be unconditional because they don't want to box in the house of commons because they know the numbers are not there. the second thing you tell us is that 12 april is the cutoff date for the uk to declare their whether it is taking part, that really is a natural cut off for any alternative option passed general elections and a referendum? yes, i would say so. i must stress it is not clear whether this will pass. and i was i was on
8:15 pm
your programme an hour ago explaining quite a different programme, i feel that i'm lacking in confidence to a certain... i'm sure people are asking what all these dates matter? on the floor, eve ryo ne these dates matter? on the floor, everyone gets different briefings, because someone comes out everyone gets different briefings, because someone comes out of her room and has an agenda to push, or someone room and has an agenda to push, or someone has picked up something the others haven't yet discovered? yes, and other people's sources are saying the same thing at the moment about what the direction of the discussion is. that is useful, let's bring in barbara. she is a correspondent here in brussels, nice to see you. are you hearing similar things? it is very fluid, and of course different dates are being discussed, and the latest we heard was at seven may was off the table again. one call he explained because of some world war ii connotation,
8:16 pm
but... that is dangerous territory, as we know. you cannot put anything on there, but that is just interpretation. but this was emmanuelle macron's plan. the european elections are very important. brexit's new date, 22 may, when the elections take place, to him that is a very big deal. so whether he can convince the others, and what the... we can't tell yet. but they are still haggling about it. but the main point is the caveat that theresa may had to pass the deal next week. that seems to be off the table. let's zoom out a minute to 30,000 feet. when we used to come to 30,000 feet. when we used to come to european council summits, and we've covered many of them, it was
8:17 pm
angela merkel that told us what would happen. is she still in such a powerful position? is not a lesson of power but politics. she waits and waits, and when she comes back in at the last moment, she pushes and turns and tries to shape things her way. but she has no problem with the macron plan, why not let him do it? she is not somebody who will grab powerjust because it is there. she doesn't need that any more, she is long past that point. she will watch this and if it goes in a way that she thinks is useful, and what she wants, she has reiterated today that what she wants is an orderly brexit. an orderly exit with a deal. and she will do anything to foster that. so if macron's plan works, she will go along with it. this is a very macro question, but do you think there is
8:18 pm
an appetite that the eu 27, we know macron wants to go much quicker with the project, perhaps the european union needs to go quicker? and maybe this is discussion europe needs to have? written as a big member sitting in that second account —— britain, give it a bit more power because britain sits within it. but there is a core that goes much further and faster? you know how old the discussion about a 2—tier europe is? years and years. when i first came to brussels, which was a while ago, it was already discussed. when he was in his earliest years, it was one of his big ideas. and that was in the early 2000. so this comes up... this is the catalyst perhaps? it always comes down because the problem is that nobody wants to be second—tier. that sounds like second grade, and who would choose that for
8:19 pm
themselves? so second—tier on paper, if you have students in front of you, if you are at university, it sounds like a great idea. someone more, somewhat less, let's make two classes this year. for that reason, it doesn't work. the moment you go into detail of the eastern european countries raising whoever it is, everyone screams that they don't wa nt everyone screams that they don't want second—tier. so who will be in it? britain alone? that won't work either. so much for that idea. some of those thoughts would be shared and house of commons. thank you both very much for the details. so you get the impression it is very fluid at the moment, all sorts of dates flying around. but the length of the discussions tells you how complex this is and why they need to take a lot of time discussing it in the route. i think they will probably have to come back next thursday, as well, to rubber—stamp some of the things they decide here in the
8:20 pm
summit tonight. christian, holler to us if anything comes to you. when the history of brexit is written, today will feature prominently. theresa may has always said brexit will happen on 29 march, next friday. now though, she's gone to brussels to ask for a delay. this time yesterday, with attacks coming from all directions, she gave a televised address, and blamed mps for what was happening. you, the public, have had enough. you're tired of the infighting, you're tired of political games and the arcane, procedural rows. tired of mps talking about nothing else but brexit. ellen barry, new york times. well let's look at some of the decisions she's taken. theresa may became prime
8:21 pm
minister injuly 2016. she'd voted against brexit the month before, but declared she was committed to delivering it. and she started to make crucial decisions. this was the first of them. so, here it is. six pages. the notification from prime minister theresa may triggering article 50. here she is signing the letter that triggered a two—year process of negotitating the uk's withdrawal. and so the countdown began. we've reached eight days to go. but when the clock was started, the uk government didn't have a settled position on the kind of brexit it wanted, and finding one proved time—consuming and divisive. for that reason, some inside downing street thought article 50 had been triggered too soon. katy perrior was theresa may's director of communications.
8:22 pm
she's since said... that said, theresa may has always defended her decision, and it was supported by the bulk of both conservative and labour mps. that was march 2017. the next big decision came in april. i have just chaired a meeting of the cabinet, where we agreed that the government should call a general election to be held on 8june. but this was earlyjune. in the early hours following the election, it became clear to the prime minister had lost the majority she'd had, in an election she didn't have to call. the election was also a personal disaster with her campaign stype repeatedly criticised for being robotic and unchanging. with no majority, she had to cut a deal with northern irish party the democratic unionists.
8:23 pm
its ten votes gave the tories a working majority. it also supports brexit, but its primary purpose as a party is to defend the union between northern ireland and great britain. that trumps any other consideration, including any agreement with the prime minister. all of which became very relevant when we saw theresa may's brexit deal and its plans for border between northern ireland and the republic of ireland. goodness knows how many times we've talked about the backstop. the irish border backstop is designed to avoid a hard border if there's a delay to a new trade deal between the uk and the eu. it may involve northern ireland having a different trade status than the rest of the uk. and the dup won't countenance that, and so it's voted against theresa may's deal twice. let's bring in chris mason at this point, live with us in westminster. are you enjoying that cup of tea, chris? it's been a long day? yeah
8:24 pm
softwa re chris? it's been a long day? yeah software which leaves us in an extra ordinary position that a relatively small party in parliament. it has a huge amount of sway? it look like you are reading my diary, listening to the last couple of years. those huge landmark moments, the dup have proved absolutely pivotal because of this whole question of the backstop, this whole question of the backstop, this insurance policy to keep the border on northern ireland open. the whole issue of the backstop would've proved controversial in any circumstance, because any british government, particularly a conservative one, would have been very careful and cautious around anything that would emphasise the distance politically between northern ireland and the rest of the uk. but obviously that whole issue has been magnified hugely. by the fa ct has been magnified hugely. by the fact that the dup, their reason for being is to protect the union of northern ireland with great britain. and secondly, their numbers matter,
8:25 pm
they are the party of not many mps ina they are the party of not many mps in a parliament of 650. they really do matter when they hold the balance of power. given the matter and we may well have another meaningful vote next week, presumably they talk with the government quite a lot? they are, there is no resolution to it yet, but what is interesting is that now for at least a week, there's been the beginnings of them softening. that word, softening, they have used that in public. friday afternoon here at... nigel dodds went into the cabinet office and met several senior cabinet ministers, came out and said he was looking for reassurance, here but comes a bit of brexitjarman democrat jargon, about comes a bit of brexitjarman democratjargon, about giving... given the northern ireland assembly say on what happens during the backstop say on what happens during the ba cksto p if say on what happens during the backstop if it is activated. because the european union will continue
8:26 pm
dreaming up regulations and rules, and that kind of thing, ensuring that northern ireland as an executive would have the opportunity to say no to new regulations that would affect it but not the rest of the uk, to ensure it in other words that the potential that northern ireland dressed further apart from the rest of the uk, and ultimately closer to the eu in the event the backstop is activated. now it looks like they make make some progress on that, and they are now saying their position to softening but not there yet. but they are necessary but not sufficient for the prime minister to get this deal through parliament. backbenchers don't like it either, and because of the hung nature of this balanced parliament, it doesn't ta ke this balanced parliament, it doesn't take many of those conservatives to say they won't vote for it, which is quite a few still. and the thing won't fly. don't go anywhere, i have a couple of things to ask you about. the next issue is connected to the eu's guidelines for brexit negotiations.
8:27 pm
they dictated the sequence that would be followed. and crucially said... in other words, no talks of the future til brexit has happened. and despite the claims of some brexiteers in 2016 that trade talks would start straightaway, the uk agreed that that wouldn't happen. brexiteers argued that theresa may had given away her trump card, that she'd agreed on how to settle the uk's obligations without using that issue to influence the future trade deal. that said, if the eu is refusing to talk about something, as we've seen with its refusal to open the brexit deal, the uk can only do so much. another thing the prime minister could have done differently is this. during the 2016 referendum campaign, politicians from different parties set aside their differences
8:28 pm
and worked together. you may remember this. david cameron, the then—conservative prime minister, with harriet harman from labour, and paddy ashdown from the liberal democrats, all working together for the remain campaign. it's true that ture that during the campaign normal party loyalties were put to one side, but some argue the prime minister should have done more from the start to treat the brexit process as a cross—party endeavour, rather than one that her conservative party would shape. this week number ten has admitted the country was in a "crisis". but still, theresa may has only made limited efforts to find a cross—pa rty consensus. one reason is that consensus, if one could be found, might involve a softer brexit, one which involved close alignment with the eu's single market and customs union. and neither the prime minister nor sections of her party want to do that. it's worth adding there are also questions about labour's willingness to properly work with the tories.
8:29 pm
viewed from brussels this has caused frustration. the european parliament's brexit co—ordinator on monday... this is not a postcode that is known around the world for its very binary arguments, that these are not politicians who sit in a cycle who formed coalitions regularly. you have binary battles between the two principal parties on a national stage in the uk, labour and the conservatives. and the tribal loyalties run very, very deep. now there have been those that argue the article 50 process that we are taking towards the end of could have
8:30 pm
been delayed. the uk could've worked out what it wanted and then triggered it. but at the time there was huge political pressure for the prime minister to crack on with it. jeremy corbyn said the morning after the referendum that article 50 should be triggered straightaway. now he did row back from that a little later, but it had been quite ha rd little later, but it had been quite hard for them to delete further. on that point about whether or not there should have been an attempt to get across party view of much earlier, as may well happen now in the coming weeks, firstly there is that binary thing, that the leader in opposition always aspires to be to prime minister, therefore is not inclined to help the current incumbent in the post. but also the fa ct incumbent in the post. but also the fact that the prime minister and theresa may was a remainer, although not a very subversive for us one, and wanted to be seen as a proper deliver of brexit. so politically, she felt obliged to tackle further toa she felt obliged to tackle further to a bigger version of brexit, a
8:31 pm
fuller brexit, a harder brexit than some of us might have done. but she regarded that as politically expedient at the time. chris, we will be back in a minute. thank you very much. and so that's brought us to the current parliamentary standoff. the deal has failed to go through parliament twice and here is more of what theresa may said last night. our parliament has done everything possible to avoid making the choice. motion after motion, and amendment after amendment has been tabled without parliament ever deciding what it wants. all mps have been willing to say is what they do not want. i passionately hope mps will find a way to back the deal i've negotiated with the eu. let's explain why this has caused so much upset. it's notjust that mps don't like being criticised. it's that the uk's democracy is based on the idea that parliament is sovereign. some saw the prime minister framing brexit as the people vs parliament.
8:32 pm
and some mps are furious about that. last week, i received a message saying that my head should be chopped off, among lots and lots of other messages. in common with many other members on both sides of this house. i apprehended the prime minister last thursday evening, and i begged her to dial down the hate. it is in her power to dial down the hate. people are frightened, notjust in this place, but in the country as a whole. and the prime minister must show some leadership! we also saw this intervention by the speaker of the house of commons. none of you is a traitor. all of you are doing your best. this should not be, and i'm sure will not prove, to be a matter of any controversy whatsoever. jessica elgot, guardian
8:33 pm
post this last night... ‘it was a hard task, but from a couple of phone calls tonight, it seems like the prime ministers speech has actually made tory mps more likely to vote against her deal‘. this is what one of those mps, who campaigned for brexit, said today. i spoke to two colleagues yesterday evening after the statement, they are people who actually did support the withdrawal agreement at the last moment. —— at the last vote. and they said that they were so incensed, they had decided to not support the next time around. now may be they have reconsidered, but certainly the immediate effect of the prime minister's statement was very counterproductive from her point of view. but not everyone is against her. mail on sunday commentator dan hodges said, "this is getting ridiculous now. how many times have mps accused may personally, and the government collectively, of ignoring the will of the people over brexit. yet as soon as she accuses them of doing the same, there 5 outrage." christie followed this last night and three today, how do you gauge the impact of this short statement? in this picture at first, it has been going on for some time,
8:34 pm
a clash between democracy and parliamentary democracy, where you have a huge range of views and the task of 650 people to interpret a binary result on a complex issue. that is the big picture here. on the micro at that statement last night, if it was meant to achieve a winning round of mps in the direction of the prime minister's withdrawal deal, it appears frankly to have failed. and has inflamed opinion as you hear from many mps on the conservative side but also the labour side and that mattis to make matters from the prime minister's perspective because to the beginning of our conversation there were hard—core conservative brexiteers you under any unlikely circumstance will shift to back her deal and if she has any prospect of getting this through and it looks like a tall order at the moment the
8:35 pm
likelihood is she will likely have to appeal overjeremy corbyn to hope that quite a few labour mps will back it. some of those he might have been inclined to seem some of the vitriolic reaction to her statement last night and soaked ingrid where they bad it could and their safety let alone anything else. as an act of persuasion, that statement last night for all its choreography seems to have fallen completely flat. when we went into this weekly ellis there would be a spoke stomach boat and the speaker intervened and said you cannot do it and we are looking to next week and assuming there will be a vote and why are we assuming that the speaker will let that happen?m isafair the speaker will let that happen?m is a fair question and i will say before and i will say again, it has not been a gay couple of years for conventional wisdom and politics. the last month, the last year the last five years, we cannot be certain that the speaker will grant
8:36 pm
another vote, and that is that it has to be substantially different from the one that was rejected from mps last time and what you mean by substantial? unless you have your own version of the dictionary, it does not really help and the expectation or the help and probably more hope than expectation is because next week when we finally get the news conferences in the next few hours in brussels we should have some sense at the new outdate and the new departure date as an extension is granted and it will amount toa extension is granted and it will amount to a substantial change of circumstance from the previous boat but ultimately the withdrawal agreement will still be the same documents of the essence will be the same even if the point of which it may be further down the track so we may be further down the track so we may wait as we had to wait this week for a judgement from the speaker and he isa for a judgement from the speaker and he is a hugely influentialfigure
8:37 pm
and all of this. subscribe straightaway, the last addition arrived last night and they are inseparably to keep up with brexit. there is considerable alarm among many business people, about the continued uncertainty, especially the possibility that the uk could leave the eu without a formal deal. the confederation of british industry, along with the trades union congress, have both said today that leaving without a deal would be a "national emergency". emma simpson reports from cardiff. radio: this is bbc radio 5 live. theresa may will ask eu leaders to postpone brexit for three months... this small catering company is following every brexit twist and turn. we decided, instead of buying sandwiches, we would have to... the boss told me an awful lot is riding on what the politicians finally deliver. if we have a no deal,
8:38 pm
i really wouldn't like to say where we will be in three months‘ time. or four or five months‘ time. i think we need to have stability. we need to know what‘s happening. and it may be that price rises will come down the horizon, whatever, but if all of a sudden there is mayhem, we can‘t pass it on, and we can‘t absorb it. across town, small businesses gather for advice on how to prepare for brexit. how will that affect your business? so, what‘s the mood here? hands up if your business is prepared for a no—deal brexit. ok, that‘s interesting. hands up if you want a three—month delay but no more. and no more is the thing,
8:39 pm
not necessarily three months. and finally, hands up if you‘re just completely fed up. a decision, that's what we're after. absolute chaos. if they don‘t have a plan, i don‘t know how we can have a plan. every business here is different. we caught up with paul back at his plant. he makes metal casings and is about to spend £250,000 on new machinery, whatever happens. we look at it, not on brexit as a whole is a positive, but i think we will try and take the positives from it. there is no point in lying awake worrying about brexit. plenty of small business owners are worried, but what they all want is brexit to be clear—cut and fast. emma simpson, bbc news, cardiff. joining me here on outside source... emma burnell is a political
8:40 pm
commentator and co—chair of open labour, an activist group operating within the labour party, and jonathan isaby is editor of brexitcentral, a website founded by former vote leave members. get to see both of you and both sides of the argument have some big decisions to make as to how to play the next part of this process and if theresa may were to lose a vote next week, how would you like those in favour of brexit to play that situation? the question is if the vote takes place because the european council we are not seen any sign of substantial change to the deal being offered in which case the speaker may decide that he will not even allow a vote on it. let's assume that the speaker deems an extension, is a substantial change. if that does happen, i am not sure that the deal will go through and chris mason made the point earlier that the prime minister speech last night pushed more mps against the boat then supporting the deal. at the moment i really did not think i
8:41 pm
could, i look at that deal and i see the way in which it effectively potentially handcuffs the uk with the customs union in the eu, and the backstop is not something we could escape from without the eu's permission and my instinct right now is having a clean break at the end of next week would mean we could swiftly move on... despite the fact that they would say it is a complete disaster, they know what they are talking about don‘t they? disaster, they know what they are talking about don't they? the referendum from years ago, it is unsurprising they are saying that now and we were told by the referendum that we would have massive unemployment as a result of a boat to leave and we sought record figures and unemployment falling yet again and from what theresa may said la st again and from what theresa may said last night, where she was right is that the public do you want brexit to happen and they want mps to get on with it and if that means a clean break at the end of next week so be
8:42 pm
it. what about the labour party plus my point of view? i would not vote for this by deal. you would not vote for this by deal. you would not vote for it either? no, it is a bad deal but we have to extend and sort this out and reset for the european union is talking about an extension if the deal goes through. a short extension at the deal goes through and if it does not go through, we need a longer extension. but the prime minister says she won‘t ask for it. she has to stop being recalcitrant and starts behaving like he promised her of the country. but the labour party cannot control what the prime minister does but it can control what it does and what tactics would you like to seejeremy corbyn deploy going into next week? they have to back the carl wilson amendment which will say if you want us to pass some form of the deal there has to be a confirmation referendum. let‘s have
8:43 pm
a year‘s extension. confirmation referendum. let‘s have a year's extension. we have to have parliament elections for the european union and a few weeks to town and it will add to confusion... , town and it will add to confusion..., more chaotic can a get, have you seen how the country is, we are trying to make sure that we can deal with something that can bring everyone back together and nobody has taken that approach so farand nobody has taken that approach so far and this confirmation referendum is the best way to of dealing with something that has not happened since the 23rd ofjune 2016.|j wonder why you preferred no deal until a year‘s extension, a new prime minister and another crack at producing electoral deal which is more aligned with what you would like with that i‘ll be better? more aligned with what you would like with that i'll be better?|j more aligned with what you would like with that i'll be better? i do not think so, this has been going on for literally two years and the deal the government and bem have come up with i think is wholly unacceptable and the house of commons has said it is holy unacceptable and there is no
8:44 pm
proof whatsoever that will be a material change that deal if we extend and it adds to uncertainty and people say regularly, business sponsor in tnt's. we leave at the end of next week, that is decided rather than saying let's have another year of uncertainty. this is 88% of business in that letter from cbi and tuc and if you have capital and later coming together to say it now we reject a new deal and we should listen to the workers and the bosses. —— capital and labour coming together. all kinds of people over the last two years and i am afraid the last two years and i am afraid the way she has handled negotiations has not been perfect and that is quite clear but equally the eu has played its cards in a way which has been effectively to try to keep the uk under its thumb. in what way hasn‘t done that? uk under its thumb. in what way hasn't done that? the way the negotiations been handled, it
8:45 pm
dictated the sequence of negotiations. but the uk is leaving out, so it is not unreasonable for the club to say these are the rules of the club. we are not going to be members of the club and we do not have to play by the rules, she played nicely by saying we will acce pt played nicely by saying we will accept your sequencing but at the timel accept your sequencing but at the time i think it was her trying to show goodwill towards the other side in the negotiations. from a personal point of view, a lot of people messaging saying they are anxious about this and do you feel anxious about this and do you feel anxious about the scale of the decisions i really hope that in april i do not have to go to the supermarket but i am not worried. that is extraordinary but what i am worried about is the potential for us not leaving on time and for certain political figures to reverse the result because i think the damage to the fabric of democracy and the
8:46 pm
democratic process in this country that will because if brexit were delayed, stopped or completely separate with the absolutely enormous. i have to go on and do a couple of other stories, thank you very much. those of you watching remember we are doing our best to cover a ll remember we are doing our best to cover all the bases from this exit story with more back story online through the bbc news website and app. coming back to brexit in a moment but we must turn to another story of the utmost significance. it is about golan heights. "after 52 years it is time for the united states to fully recognise israel‘s sovereignty over the golan heights, which is of critical strategic and security importance to the state of israel and regional stability!" that is donald trump tweeting. that‘s what most of the rest of the world knows as the occupied golan heights, israel captured it from syria in 1967 and annexed it in 1981. that move was not
8:47 pm
recognised internationally. in fact, this is a un security council resolution adopted unanimously at the time denouncing it. so you can imagine that donald trump‘s announcement made the israeli prime minister quite pleased. i‘m so excited. we are so excited, sarah and i, to have you here. but especially on this evening. this is the eve of purim, and we have... a miracle of purim. we call it ness pulliam. president trump has just made history. i called him. i thanked him on behalf of the people of israel. he did it again. live with us from jerusalem, from people have not followed the long story of golan heights, can you describe to us the scale of this
8:48 pm
decision? the golan heights was ca ptu red decision? the golan heights was captured by israel from syria in 1967 and in 1981, israeland captured by israel from syria in 1967 and in 1981, israel and effect annexed the territory but that decision was not recognised by the international community because you cannot just annexed territories international community because you cannotjust annexed territories you ca ptu re, cannotjust annexed territories you capture, there must be a negotiating process. according to un resolution so that husband the position until now that it is the occupied israeli golan heights and that it‘s status would have to be decided in negotiations with syria but that has been us policy for decades so donald trump and effect has up years of us policy on the golan heights and it has been a very interesting evening because i am travelling with the secretary of state and we were at his house because he was having dinner at their the two men and wives and they were going to bank state m e nts wives and they were going to bank statements beforehand and we were waiting and waiting in this tweet
8:49 pm
came through from donald trump and then the statements were delayed and we we re then the statements were delayed and we were wondering had they been taken surprised by the tweetjust like the rest of us although if i must say, it was a good surprise for him who we heard right there telling us how excited he was. here one tweet says... "trump hands a political gift to neta nyahu just weeks before a tough re—election vote". said there is a domestic context of this as well. there is a huge domestic context which donald trump, iam domestic context which donald trump, i am sorry, he is facing corruption charges and facing a strong opponent and is widely believed that he needed a boost from donald trump to help in the election and that this was probably eight. and there is no reason right now to recognise israel cosmic sovereignty of golan heights and it is as afraid of iran and
8:50 pm
syria next door at establishing a base and it worries the donald trump administration as well and it is already operating in full area of golan heights and it does not change that the us is adding any military help to that and the control of the heights was not a matter of open controversy and was under the radar and now could possibly, above the radar and some concern that this may inflame tensions along that border. said that leads many people to believe that this is very much related to neta nyahu‘s believe that this is very much related to netanyahu‘s election campaign and that he is going to consolidate that when he goes to the united states next week and visit donald trump at the white house and many people in israel as he had said, say this is related to the election campaign.
8:51 pm
let‘s tax back to brexit and we have new questions coming in. christian fraser is back with us. any developments? no, still very fluid at the moment, they are back into their working session over dinner and lots of fluid dates going around, and we were listening to our europe editor who thinks this line about the uk not taking part of the european elections and tying the extension to the boat next week things that might be ruled out and they will try to be as open as they can because i had of this sum it all the focus was on trying to support theresa may. and taken a decision internally and looking at the numbers right now she is not going to get the deal through and have to open up the space for something else. let's work through some of our questions here.
8:52 pm
@itsrickyb, can uk revoke a50 unilaterally during the extension period? yes is the answer to that. the european court of justice yes is the answer to that. the european court ofjustice made a ruling last year that the uk could unilaterally revoke article 50, the european council have been saying all along that it would be a unanimous ruling within the 27 leaders. and noticed along the withdrawal agreement has not been ratified we are still within the uk plus my power and with the extension it will not be ratified or approved. jeremy corbyn when speaking to michel barnier today and the secretary—general of the european commission and said revoking article that he was still an option and he still wa nts that he was still an option and he still wants to get his deal through the first of all but it is still there on the table. thank you. from sean, no matter what extension the eu offer,
8:53 pm
am i right in thinking we will need a change in law in uk to stop us dropping out on march 29th? yes is the answer to that and what will happen on monday is the government will bring forward a motion which will have a instrument for proudman to set a new date. the interesting thing is what if there is not a date and what they decide here this evening, if they did not put a date and there. we are talking about the 22nd of may but if they ta ke about the 22nd of may but if they take that date out, does the uk government set a date. that is to be discussed further down the line but we do not know when, so he better not go there. a couple more. one i think i could take myself. no one is commenting whether the speaker of the house of commons is doing with regard to a meaningful vote three and we talked about that a few minutes ago and speaker made it clear that there has to be a substantial change to the deal before theresa may brings it back but the speaker will decide what the
8:54 pm
definition is of substantial. so perhaps a provisional extension will do it. here is one for you. this is tom saying when do people expect you to know the decision made by the european union tonight. perhaps you cannot quite answer that quite yet. i have been to many of those, we we re i have been to many of those, we were supposed to have press conferences at 7pm this evening and we are still going. everyone wants to talk. i do not know is the honest a nswer to to talk. i do not know is the honest answer to that but we will get some decision i think for brexit tonight because they will want to move things to my which are non—brexit related. so only get those press conferences we will bring them to you live here on bbc news. one more from michelle, if i had a pound for every person who message me about article 50, will parliament respond to the massive online petition to
8:55 pm
article 50. last time i checked it went past a million signatures but thatis went past a million signatures but that is unlikely to have a big influence on what comes into parliament. for the moment, yeah. there is no appetite that we have seen there is no appetite that we have seen with in the house of commons for a second referendum right now but that may change. we will see next week because what will happen if theresa may‘s deal does not pass is that the amendable motion will be put down by the government of course and those amendments come forward and those amendments come forward and will probably create the space later in the week for proudman to vote on a range of options and that is what parliament will like. on the table would be norway plus or the common market to as they call it, revoking article 50, the referendum, some adaptation of theresa may‘s deal but all those options in a secret ballot will be discovered and discussed and we will see what it is a majority for. thank you very much indeed and thinks to
8:56 pm
all of you for those questions as well and if you need more information you know where to go, the bbc website. now overdue appeal from the disaster emergency committee following cyclone di. over the past few days, we have seen harrowing images from countries in southern africa hit by cyclone idai. communities have been washed away by the floods. hundreds of people have lost their lives. many more are at the risk of disease. with huge areas of land submerged beneath muddy brown water, lives, homes, crops in mozambique, zimbabwe and malawi have been destroyed. people are still in need of rescue. you can help.
8:57 pm
the disasters emergency committee, or dec, has today launched an appeal. the dec is made up of 1a of the uk‘s leading aid agencies. they‘ll ensure the money you give will go to those in desperate need. people are stranded without food or water. heavy rains have been continuing to fall and the water is still rising. your money can provide immediate relief — food, water, shelter, and urgently needed medical supplies. £5 could provide clean water for one family for ten days. £20 could provide a family with an emergency shelter kit. £50 could provide a family with food for one month. you can give online now at dec.org.uk, or you can call 0370 60 60 610.
8:58 pm
that's 0370 60 60 610. to donate £5, text the word "help" to 7 00 00. texts cost £5 and the whole £5 goes to the dec cyclone idai appeal. you must be 16 or over, and please ask the bill payer‘s permission. for full terms and conditions go to dec.org.uk. or you can write a cheque made payable to dec cyclone idai appeal and post it to po box 999, london, ec3a 3aa. anything you can give will help. thank you.
8:59 pm
9:00 pm

7 Views

info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on