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tv   BBC News Special  BBC News  March 27, 2019 6:00pm-8:01pm GMT

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this is a bbc news special programme from westminster where theresa may has told her mps that she will step down in time for the next phase of brexit negotiations. the announcement came as the prime minister met backbench mps to try, once again, to win them over to her deal. but the speaker has warned that there must be changes to the deal if it is to be put to another vote. i wish to make clear that i do expect the government to meet the test of change. they should not seek, they should not seek to circumvent my ruling by means of tabling either a notwithstanding motion or a paving motion. in the commons, mps prepare to vote on their preferred version of brexit, eight different options are being debated. in strasbourg, the president of the european council, donald tusk, urged meps not
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to ignore remain voters, you cannot betray the 6 million people who signed the petition to revoke article 50, the i million people who marched for a people's vote. good evening, welcome to westminster. where in the last few minutes we've heard that theresa may has told her mps that she will step down in time for the next phase of brexit negotiations, she's been addressing a meeting of conservative back benchers in an attempt to win them over to back her deal. it's just the beginning of what promises to be an historic night in the house of commons. for the first time in living memory, mps have taken control of the house, and will vote in the next hour on a series of brexit options. this is the scene
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live in the commons. at seven o'clock tonight, mps will be given half an hour to fill in ballot papers, selecting any of the eight options which the speaker selected today. we will bring you the results of that live around 9pm this evening. but there is other business at hand tonight. news from a meeting the pm held with her backbench mps about an hour ago, in which she reportedly signalled that she will not remain in post for the next phase of the negotiation. which you may know was a condition that had been set by some of the brexiteers who have been holding out on her deal. addressing the 1922 committee this evening, prime minister theresa may said... "i am prepared to leave thisjob earlier "than i intended in order to do what is right for our country "and our party. " "i ask everyone in this room to back the deal so we can "complete our historic duty — to deliver on the decision "of the british people and leave the european union with a smooth
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"and orderly exit." now, i should also tell you that aside from the the so called indicative votes tonight, there is the small matter of changing the date of brexit. that still has to be changed in domestic law, to the new date of 12th april. and who knows? we may even get a vote on that in the coming house. it is a busy busy night. let's go to vicki young in the lobby. let's start with the news from the prime minister. what do we know from the 1922 committee meeting? she stood up and said that she would not take through the next phase of brexit negotiations. several conservative mps going in to that meeting, who haven't backed her hinder her brexit do up to now, felt that she would need to say something pretty specific before they were to get behind that deal. let's speak to someone get behind that deal. let's speak to someone who was in the room, that is the former health minister. i also have andrew percy another conservative mp. you were in at the room when she said it, just describe how it felt, how she seems to be, and what she said. i can tell you now, there was no whooping and
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hollering, no one takes any great pleasure in what has happened. my sense of the room is that, as conservative mps, it is what we do, they are work colleagues. we are a very close group of people, we have different opinions on issues, and we are having one hell of a difference, are having one hell of a difference, a family dispute on brexit amongst sellers. there is a lot more that unites us. there is a lot of respect for the prime minister. unites us. there is a lot of respect forthe prime minister. she unites us. there is a lot of respect for the prime minister. she actually said which was interesting and chimes with me, she knows this is a big issue, a massive issue that has dominated the end of her time in parliament, but it is not why she came into politics. it is not what gets her out of bed in the morning. me too, to coin a phrase. there is certainly more things that i am interested in. she spoke very passionately tonight up from the heart, she said, "look, i passionately tonight up from the heart, she said, "look, lam not the person who is always in the tea i am not the person in at the bars and deals in the westminster gossip," and that is a strength. i appreciate thatis and that is a strength. i appreciate that is a failing, she said that.
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she was very honest to that. as ever with her, she is absolutely country first. what she was saying to us tonight is that this is a good deal, the country is in a real corner right now, so let's not letjeremy corbyn become prime minister of this country or let brexit completely fail. let's get this through. then colleague after colleague stood up and said, "i'm going to support your deal." and said, "i'm going to support your deal. " whether it and said, "i'm going to support your deal." whether it will be enough, i don't know. i think it will be very close. it feels closer than it did this time yesterday. you are a brexiteer, but you have backed the deal. you have been, i would say, slightly irritated with colleagues who have not backed her deal up to 110w. who have not backed her deal up to now. now she says that she will go ifa now. now she says that she will go if a deal gets through, do you think that will persuade them?” if a deal gets through, do you think that will persuade them? i hope it does. i am slightly irritated and even more irritated if the price of supporting a good deal is based around personality rather than based
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around personality rather than based around principle. ithink around personality rather than based around principle. i think that is unforgivable. however, ithink around principle. i think that is unforgivable. however, i think the prime minister has done her duty, she has had all sorts of things thrown at her, a lot of it very unfair. ithink thrown at her, a lot of it very unfair. i think she isjust somebody who has tried to do her duty of delivering on the result, it was always going to be completed. i hope it gets them on side, i am sorry it has come down to personalities, but the prime minister's deal is the only way we are going to get out of the eu in a way that is sensible, good for the economy, and that delivers on the referendum result. you have been speaking in the chamber today while we have these indicative votes, it is a very unusual circumstance. what do you think will be the result of that?” think will be the result of that?” think it will be funny that the backbenchers have been demanding to ta ke backbenchers have been demanding to take over control of parliamentary business so that we who have been voting on everything anyway can express what our opinion is. the likelihood is tonight we will probably vote down everything that has been proposed by backbenchers as an alternative. i don't think we will be any the wiser after today's vote. that was always going to happen tonight. it is part one of a
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two pa rt happen tonight. it is part one of a two part process. green that it is like the x factor. tonight is about saying what you can live with. on monday we will get down to more whittling. the people who, and i do support this process, i think it is refreshing what is happening and i think it should have happened two years ago, for those who don't like this process, this came up in the meeting tonight, there is a simple answer, support the deal and we get what is a good deal through. i am with andrew, i think it's very strange that people who have the most heartfelt objective to this deal in all areas of principle but someone says deal in all areas of principle but someone says if they fall on their sword when it is ok. it could be about the future leadership of your party. imagine. it could be for some of them, the people who have been playing the games they have been playing the games they have been playing won't get my support and i will do what i can to make sure people who put their leadership ambitions ahead of the good of the country will be the people who do least well on the ballot comes.” have spoken from the backbenches for
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three years and what i said is that my constituents in winchester, a lot of them voted remain, some of whom voted leave, some didn't vote at all. they all have a view on it, but what they all have in common is a desire for us to get this done and to move on, and if we must leave the eu, then to do so in a safe way. in a safe way that protects our economy, and their jobs. a safe way that protects our economy, and theirjobs. if we do that, then i think we can move forward as a country and the party. thank you very much, reaction there from two conservative mps to what is going on. theresa may hoping that her deal can get the support of the democratic unionist party and she will try to put it to a vote later this week. vicki, stay there, we have plenty to talk about through the evening. before we go any further, let me take you through what will happen this evening. at 7pm, the mps will leave the chamber, they get half an hour to fill in a green form on which they will see the following eight options... if you are trying to follow this, get your pen out. this is nick boles's
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proposal... option h comes from georger eustice, the defra minister who recently resigned. optionj, ken clarke, leaving the eu with a uk wide customs union. option k, this isjeremy wide customs union. option k, this is jeremy corbyn's wide customs union. option k, this isjeremy corbyn's plan, labour's plan. option l from joanna isjeremy corbyn's plan, labour's plan. option lfrom joanna cherry, provoking article 50 if a no—deal brexit is not expensively approved by mpsa brexit is not expensively approved by mps a day before we leave. option m comes from margaret beckett. this is the second referendum option. then option 0, marcus fysh, the so—called malthouse plan b option
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favoured by the eurosceptics erg. the government would seek a standstill agreement while negotiating the future trade deal. these are your runners and riders this evening. the mps will divide into two groups, eight the results will be countered by the clerks after 730 and we presume, in the process , after 730 and we presume, in the process, two or three of these options will emerge as a preferred way forward. there will be preferential voting, we expect, on monday. i hope that gives you a good flavour of where we are going. let me introduce you to stephen kinnock, the labour mp who backs common market 2.0. i will let you do your pitch, why should the uk follow the common market 2.0 option? thank you for letting me do that. 52—48 was a mandate to move house but stay in the same neighbourhood. what people want, i think, the same neighbourhood. what people want, ithink, is the same neighbourhood. what people want, i think, is to leave the political institutions of the eu but keep the economic benefits. that is
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what common market 2.0 does. we leave the eu and of the european court ofjustice, we have our own way of making laws, parliamentary sovereignty, but we keep a frictionless relationship with 500 million consumers on our doorstep. hence the term common market 2.0. it is what people had, what we had in the 19705 and 19805 before deeper political integration came with the maastricht treaty. i think we can go back to that, it is about having the balance of sovereignty and prosperity. sarah wollaston, one of the independent group, said today to nick boles that this is the worst option for both sides because it doesn't deliver true brexit for the brexiteers and it is worse than the deal we have currently for the remainers. i would say it is truly a brexit because you have turn out of the eu, you have honoured and respected the result of a referendum, but you are protecting thejobs of referendum, but you are protecting the jobs of the people and the livelihoods of the people that we we re livelihoods of the people that we were elected to represent. i would actually say it is the best of both worlds. the problem is we have
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people on each side of this debate, those campaigning for a people's vote, they have a strongly held view there, then you have the people who wa nt there, then you have the people who want hey hard brexit, in the middle i think there is a silent majority, both out in the country and in parliament, that want to respect the result of the referendum but they also want to protectjobs and the economy. common market 2.0 takes both of those boxes. as a complete anorak for all of this, as someone who has followed it from the beginning, i have to say it has been quite a fascinating debate this afternoon. we have had the full gamut of brexit options, everybody putting an impassioned case across each and every one of them, but some in the country might say, "why have we had all of this embarrassment, why has it taken them till two weeks before the new brexit date to have a debate like this?" i have had mixed feelings that i because in the one hand it has been truly liberating, we have finally been able to, in the mother of all parliaments, have a debate about the most important issue that has faced our country since the second world war, but
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frustration as well. what a travesty that we are trying to do it in such a rushed and inelegant way, pushing all of this through. this is a conversation that should have happened from the summer of 2016 onwards. we should have had a government in power that said that this has been an earthquake or british politics, it is time to forge a national consensus, to think about not just the forge a national consensus, to think about notjust the 52%, but also the 48. i actually genuinely believed that the outcome of that would have been for us to leave the eu, but to do so ina been for us to leave the eu, but to do so in a way that was sensible, pragmatic, and building bridges and pulling our communities together rather than driving them apart. when you go into the voting booth tonight, you are going to vote for yours, it is a straight yes or no option, but how many of the other eight options might you tick?” option, but how many of the other eight options might you tick? i will certainly vote for our front bench motion because actually common market 2.0 puts flesh on the bones of what labour is asking for. single market alignment and a customs
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union. we are saying there is an off—the—shelf model that can be delivered very quickly, and we can actually leave in an orderly fashion before the 22nd of may. i think that there is a lot in the georger eustice proposal which is also the fda, iam eustice proposal which is also the fda, i am planning to vote for that. i think the people's quote amendment, it is coherent and is a compelling proposal. i do have reservations about it and i will be absolutely honest with you, i am still thinking about where to go on that one. i could have a referendum which is common market 2.0 versus remain, buti which is common market 2.0 versus remain, but i would be really concerned if we ended up, for example, with a referendum that was no deal verses remain because no deal is such a disaster for the country and i worry about the risks of opening that up. there are a lot of opening that up. there are a lot of labour supporters who are scratching their heads tonight because they turn on their radio this morning, barry gardiner is telling that labour is a remain party, then they look at what you came out with with that from the conference, there would be a
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people's vote. margaret beckett arguing passionately for it to this evening. what are you? is it remain or leave? i actually think barry wasn't right and what he said today because we are a party that wants to have all of the options, the priority is to respect the result of the referendum, but we have also said that if we get into a situation where parliament has been unable to resolve this, the prime minister's deal gets voted down, you are up against the cliff edge are potentially no deal, the only way to get out of it would be to put it to the people, then i think that is something we would have to support. we must, at all costs, avoid leaving the eu with no deal. if at all for avoiding that could be a second referendum, i think we have to absolutely keep that on the table. but i think what is right about our leadership's position is to say the priority is to respect the result of the referendum. what we must do is respect it without destroying the british economy. good to have you
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with us. i will let you go to filling your form. thank you very much. the eight options that they are currently voting on were selected by the speaker of the house. they were originally 16 options put forward and it was up to the speaker to decide what would be on the ballot paper. the ones that he selected, or one that he selected, is another referendum. it was put forward by the labour mp margaret beckett. the idea of another referendum also came up in strasbourg today, here are the thoughts of the european council president donald tusk. you cannot betray the 6 million people who signed the petition to revoke article 50, the 1 million people who marched for a people's vote, or the increasing majority of people who want to remain in the european union. they may feel that they are not sufficiently represented by the uk parliament. but they must feel that they are
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represented by you in this chamber. because they are europeans. thank you. in answering a question from a british journalist last week at the european council, donald tusk saying, "i am actually more pro—british then you are. because what he likes to put it among the pigeons, doesn't he? he is still hanging onto the idea that maybe this could all go away and that the uk might revoke article 50. i would say you are putting the cat among the pigeons, you are right for 5°ppy among the pigeons, you are right for soppy likes to do that. we have seen him do that a number of occasions throughout brexit process. he has certainly always said that he hoped that the uk would change its mind. but i think that we are in a very different stage now in eu — uk relations, and we have been out of
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sync many times through this process. when the uk voted to leave, almost three years ago now, the eu was devastated, not just almost three years ago now, the eu was devastated, notjust donald tusk. a leader after leader, including emanuel macron, who you know is seen as a real hardliner when it comes to brexit, he kept saying that our door is always open. eu leaders really pressed the uk to work out exactly what kind of brexit it wanted. but mp5 have taken up until now to do that, or they are only now being allowed to do that, in the meantime, eu leaders have got used to the idea of brexit. donald tusk today was speaking in sympathy and in solidarity with those in the uk who wish to remain in the uk, of course he still does hope that the uk could change its mind. but when you look at eu leaders, their priority is no longer this idea that the uk could still remain in the club, they are convinced that brexit will be damaging to the uk, at least in the short to medium term. to
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their priority now is to stop that damage spreading, or as you hear hear, infecting the rest of the european union. he was appealing to the eu parliament today to push for a longer delay, there was reporting in the guardian today that they would like an extension as long as 2020. where do you think the eu is on that? if they were to come back, parliament, with a coherent plan, a consensus, would they change the political declaration if it was to their suiting or would they try to kick it down the road? there are two things here, donald tusk isn't pushing for a longer brexit today, the eu would really like to get on with this asap. they believe that brexit probably is going to happen, and if it is, they would like it to happen with a deal so in an orderly
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fashion, and for them, happen with a deal so in an orderly fashion, and forthem, it happen with a deal so in an orderly fashion, and for them, it is killing business, citizens aren't sure about their rights, it is very bad for international investment, so they would really like to get on with this as soon as they can. what i would also like to do, if possible, to avoid a no—deal brexit, if a longer brexit delay would be necessary to avoid that no—deal brexit, then donald tusk is saying to the eu parliament today that he knows it will be complicated for the member states to take part in the election, we could get some very eurosceptic uk mp5 here in the uk parliament, but don't reject the idea out of hand. that is what he was saying today. as for the political declaration, as we know, the negotiated, that the reason he wa nts, the negotiated, that the reason he wants, to approve is made up of two document, that is made up of the ritual agreement, made of the famous backstop on the northern ireland border, it includes citizens a possibly right, it includes the
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amount of money that the uk owes the eu and says it will leave the club. separately, that document is legally binding. and there is a second document called the police declaration, what does that mean? it is basically an aspirational document, how they imagine and hope their future relationship will look like after brexit. notjust in trade terms that in security cooperation and things like that. that is not legally binding. a lot of the vote that mp5 will take this evening are to do with that future relationship, should it be a closer relationship or should it be a much more distant relationship? the eu says, "if mp5 decide that they want to change what is currently in that document, they can do that in a matter of hours, if necessary. " can do that in a matter of hours, if necessary." they are willing and happy to do that, because actually, the eu would like the uk to stay as close as possible after brexit, and if these votes might take the eu in that direction, then they are delighted. but also they point out, what we are talking about now and
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what we are talking about now and what mp5 are voting on is the leaving document. the eu under law is not allowed to negotiate future trade relationships as long as the uk is still a member. all of those details, they will only get down to wa nt details, they will only get down to want the uk leaves. so whatever is in that political declaration and whatever it might be fought over in parliament now, it is a new page once we leave the eu, if and when we leave the eu, and then everything is up leave the eu, and then everything is upfor leave the eu, and then everything is up for renegotiation and negotiation again. it is not a legally binding document, it is a document, it would be hard to row back completely, but it is not fully legally binding. so things can change under any future prime minister since we have heard theresa may does not intend to be the prime minister in that next stage of brexit. thank you very much indeed. there are a huge range of votes on the ballot paper this evening, we will try to take you through all of them as we go through this evening. if you have forgotten what they are. there is john baron's motion of leaving the eu without a deal on april 12th,
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through tojoanna cherry‘s proposal to revoke article 50, and, as we've discussed, the idea of another referendum. but there are also a few options that dictate the nature of the uk's future relationship with europe following brexit. conservative mp nick boles tabled the plan for common market 2.0 — it would mean adopting a model currently used by other countries in their dealing with the eu. here is nick boles. in a divided country and a divided parliament, finding and sustaining a compromise that most people can support is a noble endeavour. after years of paralysing conflict, we have a moral duty to open our minds this afternoon and reach for a compromise that will allow us to put the interminable brexit row behind us. i want to show you this tweet by our political editor laura kuenssberg who says she is hearing...
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that is quite interesting. let's bring in tom peck, who's a political sketch writer for the independent. that is quite interesting, it would be the ideal time to go because the eu disappears with the european elections, they have got to re—elect all the commissioners, put them in place, there is going to be a four month period where the conservative party could go away and have this leadership battle. the may weigh tends to be leaks and denials and thenit tends to be leaks and denials and then it turns out that the leak was a lwa ys then it turns out that the leak was always accurate. what she asked the eu for was the brexit deadline to be extended tilljune the 30th. we now know that was when, we think we know thatis know that was when, we think we know that is when she perhaps wants to leave. it doesn't really surprise me, it is a choreographed plan that she always would go for. what we are not really sure of is whether she will be allowed to get that far. if she said to her mp5 todayjust now
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that she will quit before the next stage of the negotiations, the next stage of the negotiations, the next stage could begin on may the 22nd if thatis stage could begin on may the 22nd if that is when the uk leaves. that is when there will be best endeavours, talks about setting out the framework for the talks. by may the 22nd, there is going to be a ferocious tory leadership contest, isn't there? you everfancy ferocious tory leadership contest, isn't there? you ever fancy their chances of winning that by may the 22nd they are not going to want anyone but themselves doing that bit of the, even the preamble to the talks, if you like. so we will see if theresa may gets her own way. 0nce if theresa may gets her own way. once you say you are off, your opportunity to get your own way sta rts opportunity to get your own way starts to diminish. as we have seen before. stay with us, vicki is in the lobby. she has someone with her. she is going to give us some reactions tonight's vote. that's right, that address by theresa reasoning up to mp5 and a packed room, a very reasoning up to mp5 and a packed room, a very hot room as she said she was going to really stop doing thejob and she was going to really stop doing the job and stand down early than
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she would have liked to if, and it isa she would have liked to if, and it is a big if, her deal gets through. let's speak to james brokenshire, a friend of hers a member of the cabinet. telling what it was like in the room where she made a speech. cabinet. telling what it was like in the room where she made a speechm was a very the room where she made a speechm was a very personal address that the prime minister made. she was reflecting on some of her time on not being a showy person, on actually wanting to carry on but knowing that the sense that she had gained from embers of the party over re ce nt gained from embers of the party over recent days that they wanted some sort of change for the second phase of the negotiations. but absolutely being focused on the task at hand. whilst the prime minister has given her indication tonight as to her long—term position, ultimately, we have to deal with the here and now which she was so clear on and getting behind the deal, making brexit happen, getting the votes through this place, and moving on for the hunt country. it has been
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driven by the sense of public service, the sense of putting the country at the forefront of our decisions and profoundly, that is about stability, that is about certainty, that is about getting behind this deal. do you think though that the fact that this has come down to personalities, some of your colleagues say that they hate her deal so much they haven't been able to back it twice, they have made it very difficult for her and for the government, and yet now if she is saying she will stand down, suddenly they are willing to put that aside in order to back it. what you feel about that? because i am andi you feel about that? because i am and i think it is a moment in our history where, yes, there have been very stark differences of view in my party and other parties in this place have had profound differences. i think what has been crystallised isjust what we i think what has been crystallised is just what we have at stake, but equally, what is in our grasp. literally, that ability to pass the withdrawal agreement, to see that we leave the european union in a smooth and effective way, but equally
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getting into that next stage of the negotiations. yes, we still have them to do, the long term relationship between the uk and the eu. it was on that issue that some colleagues felt that they wanted to see a change in approach. a change in the manner in which we would look to that next step. i think it is that the sense of reflection that the prime minister has given, but also that profound sense of public duty, of service before self. that is what i have seen in theresa may over so many years in so many ways in which i have worked alongside her. on that real sense of duty that defines her, politics defines who she is, and i think you have seen that sense of leadership and that sense of purpose tonight. but how she is resolute in knowing that we need to deal with this issue here and now, we need that certainty, this is not about political gains, this is not about political gains, this is not about political gains, this is about the future of our country which is why people need to come together to get behind this deal and allow us to move forward.
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that was your message to those in your party who so far have refused to do that. i think that is a broad message that the prime minister herself gave at the meeting this afternoon. just what we are dealing with at the moment, where today in this place, in parliament, we are seeing constitutional change always lose back almost happening with parliament taking control of the business of this place which should be for the executive. i think that just underlines the seriousness and significance of where we are at. but equally, as parliament, as mps, we now have that chance, we have that ability to show the public that we get it, that we need to deal with this, that we need to move on and deliver on brexit. and i think that it was not a clear message that she gave tonight so, yes, my party, but also more broadly. on how we come together, we make this happen, and we move forward as a country and as a parliament. thank you very much indeed. if it all goes according to
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plan, the dup will be crucial in all of this, there will probably be a vote here on friday. a few more hurdles to get over before we get to that but that is clear you hope. are certainly some hurdles left, but we are expecting a statement from the dup this evening so we will keep an eye out for that. if you are just joining us, you're watching a bbc news special. for those who don't know, theresa reason he told mp5 tonight that she will step down in time for the next phase of brexit negotiations. she has been addressing a meeting of conservative backbenchers tonight in an attempt to win them over to her deal. we should get those votes in the next hour or so, that is when they will go into cast their ballot. comes will go into cast their ballot. co m es after will go into cast their ballot. comes after mp5 took control of the house from the government as they attempt to find a majority for the next steps in the brexit process, so let us talk a bit about mrs may's announcement. with me is george free
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man. you were one of those who had urged the prime minister to go, are you satisfied that she is now going to step aside for the next phase? yes, i think he has done the right thing. it was a very sad moment. she has devoted her life to public service and she with tears not far from her eyes said tonight, this is a moment that i promised i would deliver the brexit withdrawal agreement. i have made many mistake, iam only agreement. i have made many mistake, i am only human and i beg you collea g u es i am only human and i beg you colleagues vote for the withdrawal agreement and then i will go, and there was silence in the room, and it was an incredible powerful, one of her best speeches. that is the big question, will mrs may sacrificing herself if you want to put it that way bring across the ha rd put it that way bring across the hard liners? her speech was followed bya hard liners? her speech was followed by a series of speeches from very ha rd by a series of speeches from very hard line brexiteers in my party who have been holding out against the agreement, all saying prime minister, thank you i will vote for
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this deal. whether that is enough crossing over, to get the deal over the line, we will have to wait and see, but i hope so, and i think they could feel the authority of the nation behind her words. she promised to deliver brexit, she's falling on her sword, putting country before party and career, and is asking them to do the same, and you could hear a pin drop in that room. you brought a bit of history with you, this is your voting slip. i won't show people what you have indicated. i will show them the front—page because you supporting common market 2.0. this is the green form people will be filling in. yes, are you ticking one option? no, i have to say, although people have said this is a remainor conspiracy, this is taking back control from the government this is tying the government's hands, not true. parliament has always controlled our own time. we normally agree the government because it commands a majority —— majority in the house.
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it is not a remainor conspinner circumstances i am voting for brexit. and three, we are not tying the government's hands, it is purely indicative, i hope it will send a signal to the government if the deal goes down, where there might be a centre of gravity for plan b, you will hear strongly big vote tonight for a customs union, mainly labour, some conservatives, and a big vote for efta. where is the bar though, because the prime minister's deal got 2a 2 votes in favour, does one option have to reach that level? no, they are purely indicative what the votes tell us is there is no majority, nowhere close to 250 for anything, i doubt it, i think you will see a couple of options get close to possibly exceed 242, and i think that will send a signal to the government. if you have to go for a plan b this is where it is, and i hope that that will send a message
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to ha rd hope that that will send a message to hard line conservatives, if you vote against again, you are a not going to get no—deal you will get a cross— party going to get no—deal you will get a cross—party brexit which is likely to be more towards a customs union, away from where you want to be. i hope the penny will drop and tomorrow or friday or monday they will vote to ged this withdrawal agreement through, as the prime minister said tonight it is just the withdrawal agreement, isn't the future relationship, and by promises to going she has opened the debate. i hope common—sense reveil, i think the public are fed up. they want to get through withdrawal, and then get on to what the future relationship should be. i should ask you, have you a preferred choice for the next prime minister? it depends when it is, i was saying if it is this week it has to be a cabinet heavy hitter now. a brexiteer? and i think michael gove would be the obvious person n the next few month. i hope in the summer question have a proper election, there are many candidate, we should hear from them all, have a debate about this country, the
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debate about this country, the debate the country needs to have see us debate the country needs to have see us have and i hope the right leader merges from it. it has to be somebody who can unite the party and country, but tackle the grievances that drove that brexit vote, and respect the concerns of the 48%, a one nation conservative party, healing the wounds of brexit and governing in the national interest. 0k, governing in the national interest. ok, i governing in the national interest. 0k, igive governing in the national interest. ok, i give you back your green form, you have to go through the aye lobby, a to k. thank you very much. we will speak more to tom peck in a moment. i want to give you a flavour of what went on. this is this full range of brexit options that are being scrutinised in the debate. let us being scrutinised in the debate. let us listen to. so of those contributions. sovereignty of parliament at the end is not the sovereignty of us, however brilliant we may be. it is not the sovereignty of the mace, it's the sovereignty of the british people. they have told us what to do, we must do it. at this moment and on this issue,
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it is of such national important, it is of such national importance, where the divisions and also the unity go across party boundaries, and where we are dealing with an unprecedented way in which the country has, that has also been kept out of this debate over the last two or three years, is calling out for parliament to find a way forward. the government have botched the negotiations at every turn, have failed to try and achieve consensus, and when amendments have been brought forward at every single stage, whether on the single market, on the customs union, on different negotiating priorities, different principles, at every single point the prime minister has said it's my way or the high way. that is why we are in the bind we are now. at last, i think, we're already seeing as we go along, the house is moving into a mood where it is going to possible to end the catastrophic shambles of the last six months, we are beginning to talk
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about actually being able to take decisions founded on some sort of cross—party consensus, and some search for a majority that can be sustained through the difficult and long negotiations that are required to reach agreement on our final relations with the european union. those are some of the contributions we have had. the debate still going on. tom peck is still with me. the point of the prime minister making this announcement, was to try and pull over some of those hard line ergers, will it work? boris johnson last night indicated that he would do itand last night indicated that he would do it and we hear that perhaps he has done it, the question is whether or not as you say, whether or not the pied piper can bring enough in behind him. if you look at the number, last time round she lost by 149 so she needs to convince 75. she only had 57 mp5 spare in her own party. i i don't see how the numbers are there even with boris and jacob
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rees—mogg. are there even with boris and jacob rees-mogg. you would need 20 odd labourmp, rees-mogg. you would need 20 odd labour mp, possibly the dup. we have this situation wherejohn bercow and the house of commons right now is mash naiting to prevent her being able to bring this bribe, they are coming onboard, will the vote happen? we don't know, john bercow isa happen? we don't know, john bercow is a stubborn man and he seems sure he is not going to let it happen, as ever we don't really know, all, everything moves but in the end you ta ke everything moves but in the end you take a deep breath and nothing changes. no—one knows what is going to happen tomorrow, next week... what do you make of the voting system tonight? it is unsatisfactory, it doesn't tell us anything. it might do on monday but could it provide the answer? well, it is like the world cup, when england were doing well and everyone spent weeks going through the permutation and who we might get in that round and if this happens and that round and if this happens and that happen, germany go out. brazil go out and nothing you think is going to happen ends up happening. i
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can't tell you what of the eight options which will be the most popular there is no restrictions on how many each mp can vote for. it is ha rd to how many each mp can vote for. it is hard to work out what will be the most popular one, come monday, theresa may is the same time trying to nullify this process with her deal, she is said if she can't nullify it she is not in favour of backing these indicative votes, even having any weight at all. i am not sure if it is going to bring to us the brexit promised land. sure if it is going to bring to us the brexit promised landm sure if it is going to bring to us the brexit promised land. it is unpredictable. thank you for being patient. i want to bring up one of another one of laura kuenssberg's tweets, she is busy. here she is. it says boris johnson tweets, she is busy. here she is. it says borisjohnson will now back the pm. so maybe, maybe the prime minister's announcement this evening is starting to have an effects among those who said they could never back this deal, faced with, of course, a much softer brexit, perhaps the
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house mandating the government to go in that direction, some of them are starting to come across, some won't come across at all. maybe there are 15 or 20 that decided they cannot vote for this deal but the numbers starting to look a little more promising for the prime minister. the big question is whether the speaker will allow her to bring back this deal at the end of the week, ect expect a battle royale over that come tomorrow afternoon. joining me now is labour's seema mall hot are and gu question will be going back to vote in the next half an hour, and what is really important is today's the day we are looking to how we move forward and break this impasse, and the tone of the debate today, in the house has been different, as i think parliamentarians have been free to express their view possibly for the
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first time. it goes to show as many collea g u es first time. it goes to show as many colleagues said to me, that this should have happened two years ago. i think also, the announcement by the prime minister she is now going to go, shows that she has lost the battle in her own party, whatever happen, i believe that tonight's votes are more important, because we don't know who the next leader of the conservative party is going to be, we don't know in which direction they will take brexit in the future, and it is more important that we understand what the mood and views of the house are so we have a stronger say in the future direction. what is going on with your day—to—day work at the moment in the prime minister is lobbying the erg but you came across for the second vote, are you personally going up to some of those who just will not vote for her and say come on this is the best option we have got. i think there will be a huge impetus for that. we are putting
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argument on our erg whatsapp group and it is draining sometimes putting forward and argument where some are saying i want my conscience to be clear. well, i mean the choice is you can have a clear conscience and lose brexit or a brexit that doesn't resemble brexit or you can start to vote for the prime minister's deal, and in the meeting we have just had in committee room 144, where the prime minister fought for her life at the vote of no confidence a few months ago, she did it again today, but ina months ago, she did it again today, but in a way that she was fighting for her legacy, more than her political career, tonight she announced her career is coming to a close, and what she wanted to do was leave a legacy that said she delivered on the brexit she believes the people voted for and you heard her at prime minister's questions being able to do the free trade deals round the world. we had the american ambassador sitting in the public gallery while she was speak, and then we want to control our immigration and that sort of stuff,
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the things that were heard and repeated during the campaign and as long as we can get somewhere close to that which her deal is not perfect but it does do that, then we can do this. it surprises me, what surprises me if you didn't agree with the deal and it was so bad you couldn't vote for it twice, why should changing the prime minister make such a difference? it makes it seem more like it was about the prime minister than about the deal, and about brexit and the british people. it was important to mps that it wasn't this prime minister that was going on to the next stage, which is the future trading relationship with the european union and she said she is is not going do that, so once the deal goes through, let us say it is all finished by may 22 and and we leave officially the european union, seema and i will be joining you on another gantry talking about that how that relationship should be. the the political declaration is about the future framework, and we don't want to see a britain that is going to be poor e we know and you know that the
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assessment of theresa may's deal shows we will be 100 billion poorer over the next ten years. you think they will want a brexiteer prime minister, they didn't like the coronation of the last leadership election, there is a fair chance that leader would take you on a hard line to brexit, so are you trying to tie down the softer brexit that wow want? i believe we should have a softer brexit that was better for our economy and dealt with a lot of theissues our economy and dealt with a lot of the issues that were there in the referendum, and that is why i have been supporting a common market 2.0 but a confirmatory ballot, to close to question about the fairness or otherwise of the first referendum. and i think what is important, is to recognise if the political leader changes, the vote that we have now must count for something, because we as parliamentarians have voting not just on the withdrawal agreement, we are voting on the framework for the future relationship, and that is why it has to be one that is going to protect our economy, workers right,
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our environment, the issue isn't about the ambassador from the united states, it is about constituents and whether they will be better off or worse off, the least worse off they could be. you will be fighting tooth and nailto could be. you will be fighting tooth and nail to stop parliament mandating something that ties the hands of the next prime minister. essentially i think what, you know where i am coming through now is looking to the future which is, it is important that we do a deal with united states, but also... true. the prime minister said today at 22, she said she was to do the best fossil fuel our country, i am said she was to do the best fossil fuel our country, lam not said she was to do the best fossil fuel our country, i am not saying there are going to be more entrants than the london marathon. who will you back? i will be administering the vote as one of the officers of the vote as one of the officers of the 1922, so i won't be saying, but what we will be doing is, i think we will want to ensure, that there is no coronation like last time, it
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goes to the membership, and i wouldn't pre—judge the member ship at all. because there are lots of considerations they will be playing and one and the prime minister stressed it tonight, which is after this is all over, the conservative party is a family that needs only do together, there is going to be a lot of wounds... together, there is going to be a lot of wounds. .. the conservative party is also a party that has moved more to the right. we know that with aaron banks supporting it, but... wounds need to be heal had on both sides. we have to make this point as well, that this is something that will define our country, our place in the world, and we haven't even had the detailed debate. nigel is talking about a free trade agreement with america, but there are trade agreements we have helped negotiate with the eu that account for our trade that we could lose access to, there are many things we don't and we haven't had a proper debate about
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what is... we are coming back. it is... thank you so much for coming. i will let you go and cast your vote. theresa may has annal nounsed she will be stepping down in the next stage of the brexit process, i want to show you some polling figures that were conducted by yougov and the times and people's voting intentions. the poll sees 36% of britons backing the survey sees 36% of britons backing the conservative while 33% say they would vote labour. but there are also 20% of people who would vote for another party. and then it's this figure on support for leaders as a prime minister — 31% for theresa may, but only 18% forjeremy corbyn. and 46% of people saying they don't know who they want as prime minister.
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ounced she will when we talk about voting intentions with regards to party, there have been fluctuation, i know sometimes we have seen labour in front as well, but that is a yougov one done with the times in which the conservatives are ahead. i'm joined now by kate proctor from the evening standard. gove was on the front of the evening standard. is that who the evening standard. is that who the evening standard might be backing?” couldn't say but we had a striking picture of him jogging. borisry was ina picture of him jogging. borisry was in a smaller box. amber rudd was on there as well so we showed a whole cast of people who might put their name forward. michael gove has been such an influential figure name forward. michael gove has been such an influentialfigure in name forward. michael gove has been such an influential figure in this and he has been loyal to the prime minister, and i think he is probably
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someone who is very likely to have a great deal of support coming forward. people were talking about him being a caretakerfigure, him or david lidington who take the party together for this period david lidington who take the party togetherfor this period of time until a new leader can be elected by the conservative party. so michael gove the conservative party. so michael g ove g ove the conservative party. so michael gove gove has a part in this. those who want to remain, want a second referendum, those who want a softer brexit, they will know they have limited time now to push it in that direction, and of course there will be people like nigel, plenty of them in the conservative party who don't want to tie anything down until the next person comes in. don't want to tie anything down untilthe next person comes in. so if we talk about the length of the process or what character might be, what, what was the question there? leoo there would be a tussle between the soft brexiteers and the ha rd between the soft brexiteers and the hard brexiteers to try and get you know, one side trying to tie it down now with mandating the government to do something going forward and the other side saying we don't want that
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because there is a new prime minister coming in there is frustration with the erg group in particular, how they have handled brexit, i think the party as a whole will give that group short shrift if they start to push forward a candidate, i think there is a great deal of unhappiness with the way they have played this. they are not saying they are going to back the deal. if they push forward you will see a lot of people in the centre of the tory party who will be frustrated. last time theresa may got there because the last candidate pulled out and so i think this time, there does need to be a big conversation, grass roots members need to have a say, and people often say, grass roots members would favour aer no of a brexit candidate, someone like boris, but we don't know yet, they haven't been asked for a long time how they feel and then you never know who will get down to the final few, back out to
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the membership. people we have had on the programme are angry about the way it was run last time. let me ask you about the speaker, john bercow who has thrown another hand grenade in there, as if she didn't have enough hurdles to get over. how likely is it they will be able to get round what he is trying to do? wellings, with a all the votes or... in terms of saying can't come back until there is a substantial change to deal. think there is a substantial change, she got those two deadline, the april 12th, may 22nd, so i think there is change, i think they can bring it back. some time, parliament can do what it want, the speaker can make decisions and pushes himself forward, as the over—lord but parliament can table a bill. i heard from colleagues that if parliament wants to push for meaningful vote vote three they can do that. somebody said would be to end this session of parliament and call a new parliament but that would involve the queen and that would meanjohn involve the queen and that would mean john bercow having
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involve the queen and that would meanjohn bercow having to involve the queen, with which he might not wa nt to the queen, with which he might not want to do i think the speaker is pushing things to the limit, i don't think if he pulled, you know, messes round too much more within the para meters round too much more within the parameters of his role he will have much support from people, and i i know he is on his way out, so he feels he has free rein to do what he can, but it really is angering people inside the common, they will rein in the speaker and they can do that. thank you for coming. as we've been hearing, mp5 are set to vote on alternatives to the government's eu withdrawal agreement. the results, which will come through after nine tonight, will be non—binding, but could offer the clearest indication yet of what parliament will accept. so what are the options? here's our deputy political editorjohn pienaar. we know what mp5 don't want — theresa may's deal — though even that could change, but it's taken this long to find out what kind of brexit they do want. or try to. the government couldn't shape
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brexit, so tonight we're watching parties and mp5 use the right they demanded to vote on their plans. settling on one, well, that's another battle for another day. so what about those rival plans, all set out on a single ballot paper, all voted on at once? a so—called softer brexit, ties closer to the eu than mrs may's plan, comparable to norway's only different, under eu customs rules, so no separate trade deals, or sticking to eu market rules and standards, which might involve allowing free movement of people. or maybe all of the above. leaving with no deal — some brexiteers say nothing to fear, others call the idea catastrophic. the option of a fresh referendum — labour's backing that plan now, just not all labour mp5, jeremy corbyn has never been keen. there is a proposal to revoke brexit — call it off, for now orfor good. some on all sides, including the snp and the lib dems, simply say "stop brexit". so you can see why no—one's been counting on any single
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plan winning outright, why some process of elimination, at least one, has always seemed to be on the cards. as for the prime minister ignoring whatever mp5 decide, because these votes aren't legally binding, well, enough of them seem ready to force through a new law to make her follow their instructions if they have to. unless, that is, somehow theresa may's plan rises from the dead, and she hasn't given up hope yet of working a miracle. behind the scenes, mrs may and her allies are still desperately trying to drum up support for her deal, enough to win at the third attempt and sweep away all other plans. against all the odds, she is making progress. arch—brexiteers, notably their standard—bearer, jacob rees—mogg, now say they might grudgingly support her deal for fear of mp5 taking control and then losing brexit altogether. the dup, led by arlene foster, whose votes mrs may needs to govern, are still holding out, worried about northern ireland
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being treated differently and tied close to the eu under the pm's plan. but big beast brexiteers like david davis have come, reluctantly, into line, and borisjohnson is dangling the thought that he might too. he's also hinting he wants a tougher brexit policy under tougher leadership in future talks. no prizes for guessing which leader he might have in mind. so mrs may still needs more support — could making the ultimate political sacrifice do the trick? the prime minister has been told privately by her most senior tory mp5, the so—called men in grey suits, that her support in the party is draining away. she's already had to promise that she'd go before her full term was over. tonight, everyone's wondering whether the prospect of her standing down so a new leader could mould
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britain's future after brexit may, just may, get her deal through and salvage something from brexit she could call a legacy to the country. i'm joined now by our — chris morris our reality check correspondent. it is like the grand national! national! it is hard to tell which of the three might come out on top of the three might come out on top of the three might come out on top of the options they will vote on later this evening, because we don't know how it is all going to play out. what is interesting i think is we have been talking for so long about we know what the house of commons is against, finally we are going to get an indication, these are the sorted of things they are force, but is it scaring the tory brexiteers to hold their noses and vote for the zeal? worth remembering though, that everyone if you did vote for a common market 2.0 or a customs union or staying in the single market, all of those mean you still need to have a withdrawal
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agreement, the main part of her deal to move on to the next phase. according to george free man emotional scene, theresa may saying she has done everything she could do, is she definitely going? are we going to continue with their horse racing analogy? you started it, what she is saying is her deal if we will be on your famous race with the fences, that she is saying she will get half way round the course and jump—off. so the bit she is going to get off the horse for is the withdrawal agreement, but the really difficult thing britain's future relationship with the european union and such huge issue as britain's place in the world, the economic model, trade model, that sort of stuff she will leave that to the next leader, that is what she promised. the obvious question is that enough to get her deal over a line? remember, a lot of hard—core
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brexiteer mps, the reason they didn't, they didn't like the dine deal and they thought we don't like her to negotiate the future. the short answer, i don't know if it will be enough. you are thinking, the thinking is if the withdrawal agreement didn't go through, she might renege on that promise? well, it isa might renege on that promise? well, it is a certainty she would leave the the withdrawal agreement didn't go threw. then we are into a new political space any way. —— through. she would say we can't have a leadership bat this crisis point. don't forget one of the options would be that parliament would mandate and we would end up taking part in the european elections, she has said i am not going to be the leader that leads us into that. the horse race isa leads us into that. the horse race is a marathon not a sprint.” leads us into that. the horse race is a marathon not a sprint. i was only going to add this, whether she goes, whether her deal passes or not, whether it is some root that parliament is doing now, i suspect there are still a massive crisis ahead, although the crisis i should
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put it this way will continue. why? because it is very difficult to see whether as a result of her deal, with her as leader or someone else, however you shuffle the pack of the 650 mps however you shuffle the pack of the 650 mp5 behind us, i think it's difficult to find how britain, how they come to an agreement on britain's future relationship with the european union. this could take years. do you bet on the national? dol? years. do you bet on the national? doi?i years. do you bet on the national? do i? i bet on it the year my horse won, it was the year of the false start. i had already gone to the betting shop. if you were to bet on the horse which do you think will come through, common mark 2.0.. form of softer brexit looks like will i to emerge where the house of commons can coalesce, which precise one, possibly the customs union, it is the cleanest one but then there are obviously those who don't like it. ok, chris morris, rob watson, we are about ten seconds away from a moment in history. mp5 are going to
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start filling in their ballot papers and we will bring you the result of this special occasion, live this evening. stay with this is a bbc news special programme from westminster where theresa may has told her mp5 that she will step down in time for the next phase of brexit negotiations. the announcement came as mrs may met backbench mp5 to try, once again, to win them over to her deal. whilst the prime minister has given her indication tonight as to her long—term position. ultimately, we have to deal with the here and now which she was so clear on — on getting behind the deal, making brexit happen, get the votes through this place. but the speaker has warned that there must be changes to the deal if it's to be put to another vote. i wish to make clear that i do expect the government to meet the test of change. they should not seek... they should not seek to circumvent my ruling by means of tabling a notwithstanding motion
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or a paving motion. but in the commons, mp5 are making choices about which alternative brexit options they might be willing to support — voting is underway. good evening, welcome to westminster, where theresa may has told her mp5 — apparently with tears in her eyes — according to at least one of them, that she intends to step down before the next phase of the brexit negotiations, that's if they agree to back her deal. she said she intended to do what she promised, and what she believes is right. the prime minister was addressing the 1922 committee this evening. she said...
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it's just the beginning of what promises to be an historic night in the house of commons. for the first time in living memory, mp5 have taken control of the house, and are voting on a series of alternative brexit options. as i speak, mp5 are filling in ballot papers, supporting any of the eight options which the speaker selected today. we will bring you the results of that live around 9pm gmt. conservative mp george freeman paid tribute to theresa may for telling conservative mp5 she would quit if they vote for her brexit deal. i think she has done the right thing tonight, it was a very sad moment. she has devoted her life to public service, and she, with tears not far from her eyes, said tonight, "this is a moment that
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i promised i would deliver the brexit withdrawal agreement, i have made many mistakes, lam only human, and i beg you, colleagues, vote for the withdrawal agreement, and then i will go." and there was silence in the room, and it was incredibly powerful and one of her best speeches actually. of course, that is the big question, will mrs may sacrificing herself bring across the hardline brexiteers that you need to get across? the speech was then followed by a series of speeches by very hardline brexiteers in my party holding out against the agreement. all saying, "prime minister, thank you, i will now vote for this deal." whether that will be enough crossing over to get the deal over the line, we will have to wait and see. i hope so. and i think they could feel the authority of the nation behind her words. she promised to deliver brexit, she is falling on her sword putting country before party and careerand is putting country before party and career and is asking them to do the
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same. you could hear a career and is asking them to do the same. you could heara pin career and is asking them to do the same. you could hear a pin drop career and is asking them to do the same. you could heara pin drop in that room. george freeman, the conservative mp5, one of those who have urged theresa may to stand aside. communities secretary james brokenshire described being told theresa may would stand down early if mp5 voted for her deal. it was a very personal address that the prime minister made. reflecting on some of her time, on not being a showy person, and actually wanting to carry on, but knowing that... i think, that sense she had gained from members of the party over recent days that they wanted some sort of change the second phase of the negotiations. but absolutely being focused on the task at hand. whilst the prime minister has given her indication tonight as to her long—term position, ultimately, we have to deal with the here and now which she was so clear on. on getting behind the deal, making brexit happen, get the vote through this place, and move on for the country.
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because it has been driven by that sense of public service, that sense of putting the country at the forefront of our decisions, and profoundly, that is about stability, that is about certainty, that is about getting behind this deal. let mejust show let me just show you the picture i am looking at of the house of commons. it shows you the clock that is there in the chamber. you will see that it is five past seven, i am showing you that because the mp5 have half an hour to get their ballots in, they are five minutes into that. they are going through the two lobbies. a — k surnames will go through the r lobby. l — z will go through the r lobby. l — z will go through the other lobby. it is thejob of the go through the other lobby. it is the job of the clarks account. we don't know how long it will take them to do that. we might be here for some time this evening. before we go any further, let's go through what will happen. as i say, the mp5
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have left the chamber, it is not sitting for the next half an hour. there are eight options that are on the table for them this evening. they get half an hour to fill in a green form on which they see just a yes or no option on eight options. let's start with option b which comes from john baron. this is option d from bowls. 0ption h, george eustice, the former defra minister. that is the norway option, in other words the eea plus. then there is optionj from ken clarke. 0ption k from opposition leader jeremy corbyn, this is labour's
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plan. there is option lfrom joanna cherry. this is revoking article 50. if no—deal brexit is not explicitly approved by mp5 a day before we leave, then they would revoke. this is margaret beckett's option. this is margaret beckett's option. this is from marcus fysh, option 0. it is the malthouse plan b option this is favoured by the eurosceptic erg. they would call on the government to call a standstill agreement with the eu while the negotiating trade deal carries on. those are the eight options that we will discuss this evening. let's go to vicki young in the lobby. mps are going off to vote ina way the lobby. mps are going off to vote in a way that they don't normally do, it is a ballot, as you were
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saying, they put down what they are in favour of or against. that will go on for half an hour. let's talk to jacob rees—mogg, conservative mp, but the prime minister's announcement but says she says she will stand down earlier than she wa nted will stand down earlier than she wanted to from herjob if her deal is passed. you had already decided that you might back, but not because of her leadership. that is right, i had come to the conclusion that once no deal was taken off the table, we we re no deal was taken off the table, we were facing either not leaving or mrs may's deal. and although i think there are problems with the deal, very serious there are problems with the deal, very serious ones, we must there are problems with the deal, very serious ones, we must leave, thatis very serious ones, we must leave, that is what voters demanded in 2016, confirmed the election. i preferred leaving without a deal, but ones that have gone, i was willing to back mrs may's deal. she has now said that once the deal has gone through, if it goes through, then she will stand down. which i think shows her in a nobility. and it does involve your other collea g u es it does involve your other colleagues saying that they will do so too. i never have been a private meeting, borisjohnson saying that
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he has come to the same conclusion as you. that is quite significant, you and him now feel that that is the way to go. do you think that is any chance the deal could get through if it comes back this week? i think through if it comes back this week? ithinka through if it comes back this week? i think a lot depends on the dup and what it decides to do. i won't abandon the dup because i think they are the champions of the union of the uk which is a very important pa rt of the uk which is a very important part of conservative philosophy and thinking, support for the part of conservative philosophy and thinking, support forthe uk. but if the dup are willing either to back the dup are willing either to back the deal or abstain, i think there isa the deal or abstain, i think there is a good chance of it getting through. what do you make of what is going on through the house of commons? that has had some effect on you because backbenchers are seemingly able to control what is going on here. it has because this is constitutionally absurd, the people who have voted to take control of the proceedings in the house basically don't have any confidence in the government but don't have the courage to say so in a formal vote. they are doing it in under the table fashion. it is a very bad constitutional precedent,
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it makes minority government extraordinarily difficult and it doesn't make the government of the country any better. i think it is a bad thing to be doing, if people really have no confidence in the government, they should vote that way ina government, they should vote that way in a vote of no confidence and let the british people have a general election. they would say they have been driven to it because of some of them they are remainers who have been backing theresa may's deal, they are looking at people like you who have been backing the deal. we came to this moment where something had to be resolved, and they felt this was the only way, to ta ke they felt this was the only way, to take it into their own hands.” don't think this was the right way, they are entitled to put down amendments and emotions, but control of the order paper of the house of commons is a sign that you have confidence of the government. that is why the government has that control, because it has the support of the house. on a mandate from the british people. if you don't think that the government ought to be in place, rather than thinking you can have a cabal of people from all sorts of random parties trying to run things with no coherence or
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strategy or no accountability, we can't summon oliver letwin to the despatch box or put down urgent questions to hilary benn, they are exempt from all of that. they are not accountable, they are not the government, but they are trying to act as if they are. they should really put their money where their mouth as if they don't have confidence in the government. jacob rees—mogg, thank you very much indeed. highlighting their how unusual this evening's proceedings are but also how it has focused the minds of those on the brexit side of the arcade and persuading some of them at least to get behind theresa may's deal. isn't that interesting. reportedly, borisjohnson deal. isn't that interesting. reportedly, boris johnson is deal. isn't that interesting. reportedly, borisjohnson is also on site for the other dominoes are starting to fall? is it going the prime minister's way? here watching this all play out in westminister is sam coates — the deputy political editor at the times + katy balls, the spectator‘s political correspondent. i have just seen one of your tweets suggesting that inner circle, the cabinets, didn't know about the announcement until she made it.
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yesterday morning, the cabinet didn't know she was going to be addressing the 1922 committee. if they had done, perhaps they would have asked her. they may have asked her about her future. they were competing in the dark about this afternoon forced i think members of herinner afternoon forced i think members of her inner circle, her allies knew from about lunchtime that this statement was going to be made, one of them thought it was quite emotional. jacob rees—mogg, i saw him and asked him if he felt emotional and he replied that he didn't do public displays of emotion or affection. it has been quite well telegraphed that this would come, the question now is the effect. does it bring the 115 people who voted against her deal last time back on side? how many wilful? reports of about one hour ago say that 40 had made up their to switch, including borisjohnson, including made up their to switch, including boris johnson, including iain made up their to switch, including borisjohnson, including iain duncan smith, and 40 more were still sleeping on it. probably too many at this hourfor her to get sleeping on it. probably too many at this hour for her to get through sleeping on it. probably too many at this hourfor her to get through her deal, but who knows? politicians moving at such a fast pace. it is
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making the chief whip's job a little bit easier. is it conditional, this resignation, on the withdrawal agreement going through?” resignation, on the withdrawal agreement going through? i think it is conditional. but that is problem not what the aim is to press top tonight. i think the aim is to say that if you vote this deal, you get a leadership contest. rather than point out what happens if you don't vote for this deal. speaking to a may allow tight, they were quite clear that if this withdrawal agreement doesn't go through, withdraw it is the least of anyone's problem. they said that they would there will be happy to have an adder at the helm to make decisions if you have to start thinking about things like long extension, you elections, or going down the no deal route. that probably wouldn't be the time for a leadership election is the impression i got. i think it is conditional, but i don't think that is the clever thing to push right now because that would probably make brexiteers more annoyed. so we are waiting for a dup announcement of some kind. first we were going to
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get it on camera now statement, now we haven't got it. have you got any indication? they said that the statement last night was a personal statement. do we think they are starting to shift? i think some of them have always wanted to shift, others have been more reluctant. i think the meeting this afternoon broke up without agreement. jacob rees—mogg was speculating, what happens if they decide to abstain? possible, amazing to abstain on the most important issue for a generation. they will let them sweat. even with the dup, it is far from certain that she has got the numbers. tonight, the second most important meeting behind closed doors that you had was that of the ha rd doors that you had was that of the hard brexiteers, the one where boris johnson stood up and said, in the words of one of his opponents, ratting. some of the people in the room decided they were going to climb down, but steve baker, the deputy head of the er g gave what i am told was a barnstorming speech in which he made clear his horror at, his word, the pantomime of what he had just seen by theresa may and
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made clear that he absolutely wasn't about to switch sides. so the erg, as it were, it isn't clear who they will go with. some will live with jacob rees—mogg and pack the deal, some will live with steve baker and stay as opponents. there is properly still 25 or 30 we think which would be too many to get the deal through. making the story about her going, if you get the deal passed, is something of a sideshow because it is very possible that she doesn't. they could be, i know you are always on the numbers, i tune into what you are saying, could we get to the scenario by the end of the week where she is maybe 20 or 25 short and that is public the known, what do those brexiteers within the labour party, whose constituents are looking very closely at them, what they do? i think that is the pressure point, isn't it? they believed it is a domino effect. they thought the dup would be the first domino that would get the eurosceptics into domino that would get the eurosce ptics into place. domino that would get the eurosceptics into place. then he will start to get the labour votes. in the end, it seems that the
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eurosceptics may get the dup. when it comes to the labour mps, there is definitely a view that why would you risk a massive backlash from your local party, from the pro—eu membership, to just reduce local party, from the pro—eu membership, tojust reduce the scale of theresa may a's defeat on her deal? if it starts to look very close, as you say, i think that some will feel under pressure to back the deal, but it is far from certain. i do feel that in recent days in reference to theresa may's speech la st reference to theresa may's speech last week at number ten where she pitted mps against the people and blamed them for not getting her deal through, that opposition has hardened amongst mps who represent leave seats who have constituents asking for no deal in lots of places. they do want to get a deal through on brexit, but i don't think, as of yet, they are ready to move. you have barry gardiner today saying that we are a leave party and there are softer brexit option on there are softer brexit option on the table. there is revoked article 50 and there are a second referendum
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in the options, if they were not going through to the second round on monday, they don't get the votes that they need, are those two options then dead?” that they need, are those two options then dead? i suspect they are not completely dead, particularly the second... in fact, both of them aren't there. there are different ways that those debates and discussions could come up again. i think tonight is going to tell you two things, first of all, narrowly, we are going to discover whether the common market proposal, single market customs arrangement and very soft brexit that keeps us tied to many of the institutions while being outside the political institutions, whether that can command a bigger number of votes in anything else. that will be an important moment, particularly if they got a majority. the second thing to look for is weather across the spread of the votes it is clear that the house will pass a softer brexit and theresa may's deal, just not her deal. i think you could be able to stand about 10pm and say, "there is a clear indication that theresa may just called the politics of this wrong, and if it was softer, it can
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pass are forcing everybody a bit more back to the drawing board in terms of the political declaration, the six page document on where the next stage of brexit might go." then, we have not discussed this yet, we have spoken about theresa may's deal, there isjohn virgo who has thrown another hand grenade into the midst of it all today saying, lest we will forget, there has to be substantive change to the deal. what are the cabinet saying about that.” don't think they are dilated but i think thatjohn burke oh helped the tories because he unites them. there is not much that unites them anymore but they can all agree that john be rcow but they can all agree that john bercow is the wrong person for that job and don't think he is neutral. when it comes to ways to around his new ruling, what to do is reiterate what he said last week which is he won't allow a vote on the deal unless there is a significant changes. he said he heard there are plots to get round this paving motion, and he wouldn't be ok with that. so vote to undo his ruling. i
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think now what ministers and mp5 are trying to work out is can you say there are significant changes? after all, the exit date has changed. if not, if you were to get a majority in favour of the deal, there is a view that if you have a majority for something, there will be a route in parliament somehow to undo what he said. there is the nuclear option, of course. ending parliament, bringing in the queen. that seems very risky because it does involve the queen's speech which could only have one thing in. there are some doubts are giving parliament to this shaky that it will be able to get this through. i think that is an absolute last resort. i do wonder that, given he is not a fan of convention, could he rip up one last rule and after being speaker, run for the tory leadership? thank you very much indeed. good to get your thoughts. let's talk about the eight motions that the mp5 are currently voting on. they were selected by the
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speaker of the house today, he is the man in the middle. 0ption n is the man in the middle. 0ption n is the one at that would mean there would be a referendum on the withdrawal deal. it was put forward by labourmp withdrawal deal. it was put forward by labour mp margaret beckett. here she is early in the house. i genuinely have no idea what view the british people might take of these various compromises. and certainly many, including in this house, vehemently oppose them even being asked. and ever since the day of the second referendum result in 2016, a deluge, notjust of warnings, but of threats has come from those who take this view. forecasting unrest, civil disorder, greater division, and a dramatic further reduction in the public's trust in politics. but i invite colleagues who determinedly resist a confirmatory vote to look starkly at the full implications of what they are saying.
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they are willing, some are determined, to vote to terminate our membership of the eu, even if this may now be against the wishes of the majority of the british people. consider the possible consequences for trust in politics or for social peace if this house forces and income... forces an outcome on the people of this country that they no longer desire. that really would be the undemocratic establishment stitch—up of all time. margaret beckett speaking earlier. we are about 20 minutes into it, there are about ten more minutes to vote in the house of commons. then i
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should remind you that we are going into another debate tonight, that is the so—called statutory instrument. they have got to change in domestic law, the leaving date for brexit which is still set down at the 29th of march. it has now been moved in international law to the 12th of april, so they have to reflect that tonight. who knows? maybe we will get a vote on that as well. earlier in the day, the president of the european council — donald tusk — spoke specifically about the option of another referendum. you cannot betray the six million people who signed the petition to revoke article 50, the one million people who marched for a people's vote, or the increasing majority of people who want to remain in the european union. they may feel that they are not sufficiently represented by the uk parliament. but they must feel that they are represented by you in this chamber.
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because they are europeans. thank you. let's get the view from europe and cross to brussels to speak to my colleague damian grammaticas. interesting to hear those thoughts of donald tusk, of course, all eyes tonight on the house of commons. they wanted to give them some space to make some decisions. they will be hoping that they can find some consensus. absolutely, hoping that some decisions or some sort of clear light bulb comes on from this. i think, not actually thinking that it is going to come today, but hoping that this process that parliament has now begun might lead to something in the next few days that indicates a clear path forward or, alternatively, that theresa may's attem pts alternatively, that theresa may's atte m pts to alternatively, that theresa may's attempts to bring her deal back to parliament may also yield something. because what the eu has been crying out for in this is clarity, as they
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say. all through the negotiations they were saying to the uk negotiator, "tell us what you want!" they were feeling that they weren't getting clear answers. now we have this looming deadline, this week, for the withdrawal agreement if it is going to get through or a few more days for the uk to indicate an alternative path. to the eu sitting and watching this but i think extremely confused on how this will all play out. sorry, damien, i just lost sorry, damien, ijust lost you there in my ear. if you are still with us, let mejust ask in my ear. if you are still with us, let me just ask you about the thoughts in brussels at the moment. do you think when you listen to the debate that we have had today in strasbourg, do you get the sense that most of them are now resigned to the uk leaving the eu? because there is donald tusk asking them to stay patient. 0r there is donald tusk asking them to stay patient. or are there some of them who think, as they look at this debate today, things are moving in a
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softer direction? maybe even they could revoke article 50.” softer direction? maybe even they could revoke article 50. i think, if anything, there is a small glimmer ofa anything, there is a small glimmer of a little hope there or a little sort of candle burning that might keep that idea alive. it really, far more important, i think, keep that idea alive. it really, far more important, ithink, is keep that idea alive. it really, far more important, i think, is the overwhelming sense amongst members of the european union, the institutions meps, it is just exhaustion with this whole process. exhaustion with the fact that the uk now two days before the date when the uk was expected to be leaving two years ago, still doesn't know where it is going. the eu, i think, many feel here now feeling that they would rather in some way that there was a definition brought to this process , was a definition brought to this process, whether that is a leave, a clear passing the theresa may's deal, a no deal, a clear indication of the way for the parliament. because what they really want to
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hear, i think, because what they really want to hear, ithink, is because what they really want to hear, i think, is to have this whole phase of the brexit process tied up and to be able to move on. so i think more here voices, if you like, starting to think that, "may be a no deal wouldn't be such a bad thing because it would at least mark an end to this place." i think more sort of realism, if you like, pessimism and hope, really. 0k, damian grammaticas in brussels, good to get your thoughts. mp5 have just five minutes left to indicate their preferred choices on the ballot. these are the alternatives to the government's eu withdrawal everyone. these are, of course, indicative votes. they will be non—binding on the government, as the prime minister has said on several occasions. but with more detail on what they are actually voting on, here is our deputy political editor, john pienaar. we know what mp5 don't want — theresa may's deal —
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though even that could change, but it's taken this long to find out what kind of brexit they do want. or try to. the government couldn't shape brexit, so tonight we're watching parties and mp5 use the right they demanded to vote on their plans. settling on one, well, that's another battle for another day. so what about those rival plans, all set out on a single ballot paper, all voted on at once? a so—called softer brexit, ties closer to the eu than mrs may's plan, comparable to norway's only different, under eu customs rules, so no separate trade deals, or sticking to eu market rules and standards, which might involve allowing free movement of people. or maybe all of the above. leaving with no deal — some brexiteers say nothing to fear, others call the idea catastrophic. the option of a fresh referendum — labour's backing that plan now, just not all labour mp5, jeremy corbyn has never been keen. there is a proposal to revoke brexit — call it off, for now orfor good. some on all sides, including the snp and the lib dems,
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simply say, "stop brexit". so you can see why no—one's been counting on any single plan winning outright, why some process of elimination, at least one, has always seemed to be on the cards. as for the prime minister ignoring whatever mp5 decide, because these votes aren't legally binding, well, enough of them seem ready to force through a new law to make her follow their instructions if they have to. unless, that is, somehow theresa may's plan rises from the dead, and she hasn't given up hope yet of working a miracle. behind the scenes, mrs may and her allies are still desperately trying to drum up support for her deal, enough to win at the third attempt and sweep away all other plans. against all the odds, she is making progress. arch—brexiteers, notably their standard—bearer, jacob rees—mogg, now say they might grudgingly support her deal for fear of mp5 taking control and then losing brexit altogether. the dup, led by arlene foster,
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whose votes mrs may needs to govern, are still holding out, worried about northern ireland being treated differently and tied close to the eu under the pm's plan. but big beast brexiteers like david davis have come, reluctantly, into line, and borisjohnson is dangling the thought that he might too. he's also hinting he wants a tougher brexit policy under tougher leadership in future talks. no prizes for guessing which leader he might have in mind. so mrs may still needs more support — could making the ultimate political sacrifice do the trick? the prime minister has been told privately by her most senior tory mp5, the so—called men in grey suits, that her support in the party is draining away. she's already had to promise that she'd go before her full term was over. tonight, everyone's wondering whether the prospect of her standing down so a new leader could mould britain's future after brexit may, just may, get her deal through and salvage something from brexit she could call
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a legacy to the country. let me show you the picture in the house of commons where the voting has just finished. they have all failed in their green ballot papers with the eight options on them. let's have a listen. i now call the minister to move motion numberfour on exiting the european union. i beg to move that the draft european union withdrawal agreement act 2018 exit day amendment regulation 2019 which were laid before this house in march be approved. ido approved. i do regret the necessity of having to bring forward this instrument, and would prefer that we were leaving the eu with a deal at the end of this week. i have voted on two occasions for that outcome but i know that the house has not. the
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chancellor of the duchy of lance caster made clear the government would accept the will of the house and seek an extension if that is what parliament voted for. parliament voted by 412 to 202 to approve a motion to seek to extend article 50. an extension has been agreed and the government is committed to implementing it in domestic law. i will give way. the operative power of the ex planty notes say the following. that if the house of commons a pproves that if the house of commons approves the withdrawal agreement by... studio: so what you are seeing is normal business resuming, this is a motion that has been put forward by the government, of course the house of commons has had control today. it is the mp5 who have dictated the business and the government has been forced to sit on its hands, waiting to bring forward. what is actually an important motion. this is to
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postpone the brexit date, because in domestic law it is still set down at the 29th march and of course the government tonight moving a motion to change that date to the new date, of 12th april. there will be some on the conservative benches who will rebel against this motion, so we may be in rebel against this motion, so we may beina rebel against this motion, so we may be in a position later tonight where they call a vote on this, and then we will see what those numbers are. let me introduce you to steven bush. here watching this all play out in westminister is political editor of the new statesman, stephen bush. aand juliet samuels from the daily telegraph. i was looking at steven svenned for saying that pete bone is not commenting tonight, when asked if he is switching behind theresa may's deal. andrew bridgen said he won't vote for the deal. bernard jenkin said he is not commenting tonight. you can see there is a lot going on. there is a lot people crowded round a ladder they need to climb down, it
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isa a ladder they need to climb down, it is a extraordinary turn. some of the words that have been used about this deal are incredibly inflammatory, people have called it a vasillage arrangement. boris johnson said people have called it a vasillage arrangement. borisjohnson said it was like strapping on a suicide vest and handing brussels the trigger. you are seeing because the erg has been outmanoeuvred and cornered, there is a flood to climb down and to say, well, at least we can claim the prime minister's scalp if we get it through and it is not as bad as the alternatives. but maybe not enough. not all of the erg are of that mind, they are the biggest contributor to the prime minister's problem, there are five conservative mps want to have another referendum. they aren't climbing down any ladder because they don't have one to climb down. the dup opposed it because of the backstop. that is still there. so even if everyone in the erg
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climbs down that ladder, highly unlikely they will, this is still not a deal that has a plausible path to passing the house of commons this week. i was asking one of our contributors earlier whether at some point when the numbers become clearer towards friday, when she might be bring this deal back, whether the pressure starts to shift to those brexit, labour mp5 within brexit constituency, do they feel the pressure a bit more. the problem is they have pressure in two direction, pressure from their constituents who backed a leave vote, they have pressure from their activists who backed a remain vote but want to stick to it the conservatives and the more vulnerable the conservatives look and seeing they have lost a prime minister, they will have lost a series of votes, it is very difficult if you are a labour mp to bail out the government. i am not convinced that group will be able to feel comfortable in coming to her rescue. the prime minister has not done a lot to encourage them. she
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has vast lated back—and—forth between saying there will be no deal saying she has ruled out no deal and the problem for the backbench labour mps the problem for the backbench labour mp5 is the bestjustification the problem for the backbench labour mp5 is the best justification for them supporting it and voting for this deal if there was a plausible chance of a no—deal coming to pass, and it looks increasingly impossible for that to happen if not already impossible, so that takes away the justification they might have had for going against the party line and agreed with the government's deal. as for the dup, i think, agreed with the government's deal. as forthe dup, ithink, i mean, there has been some notes of defiance from people like sammy wilson but nigel dodds is still staying shtum. that is a sign there is shifting going on. tell me what you are looking for when the results come in. we have never done this before, there are eight options, how will we know which of those options has met the bar? i think the bar is probably to be the best performing
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loser, for a variety offen reasons there are different factions a and that i want different thing, over the next couple of days the ones that do worse also have to exit and goi that do worse also have to exit and go i wanted a second vote but i am clear, i wanted norway 2.0 but i am not going to get that. the number to beat is going to be whatever number the meaningful, theresa may's deal can get. if she can get 290 votes and nothing else can, she is in a good position. if she gets 290 and a customs union gets 295 she is in a difficult position. i asked someone elsewhere you feel if —— whether you feel if revoking article 50 referendum two, if they are at the bottom of pile, does it make it much more difficult for the people's vote team? it does for now, if there is a long extension in which parliament orders the government to go back to the negotiating table and unpick things or redo things anything can happen in the months ahead and the people's, the so—called people's
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vote campaign have been actually quite reluctant to push things at the moment, because they don't think their moment has yet come, but the irony of this is that we have just had a prime minister who said admitted she is on the cusp of standing down, whether she does so soon or a little after that we don't know, but having indicative votes which order the government do something is not very powerful, if the leader of the government then changes, so if we have a new prime minister coming changes, so if we have a new prime ministercoming in, say changes, so if we have a new prime minister coming in, say the withdrawal agreement passes and the indicative votes are pushing the government to insert new negotiation negotiating aims into their dong yuemt there's is no reason a new prime minister would feel bound by any of that. we should stress we are talking about decisions tonight which relate to the future, this political declaration, it is only 20 pages long which sets out the direction the uk is going in. it is not legally binding, the bit that has to be approved, whatever they
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decide, they industrial to approve the divorce part, the withdrawal agreement, the legally binding which which won't be re—opened. agreement, the legally binding which which won't be re-opened. that is one of the many unsolved parts of this. this is agreeing on the terms of div you have to agree whether you are going to move in, how the custody arrangements will work, all of that is still to come. it is not clear there is a stable majority for the terms of exit, so we will have many more nights like this. but what concerns me, is that you see comments from mp, and interviews they give, and they seem to think that this process is going to change somehow, theresa may's deal. the bit thatis somehow, theresa may's deal. the bit that is set down in stone in her deal is not going to change, whatever they decide in there tonight. that is absolutely true. if they, if these mps want a path towards a softer brexit it will have towards a softer brexit it will have to go through the backstop and with withdrawal agreement, so all we are seeing isa withdrawal agreement, so all we are seeing is a set of quite cynical political shenanigans, where by mps wa nt
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political shenanigans, where by mps want to make their point because they feel they have been mistreatedty the prime minister and they don't like it. essentially what they don't like it. essentially what they will have do if they want to get towards the sorted of deal they are envisioning is to admit the only way to do that is the withdrawal agreement, so, it is a very silly set of motions that, that we could see pass, that are just an attempt to shift the political environment here and they achieve nothing legally or in brussels. just a word on the prime minister tonight, has the starting gun been fired on the race? people will feel they can be more overt, you don't have to pretend when prime minister decides, the pm has decided so they will be openly seeking votes rather than out of the sides of their mouth. thank you very much for your thought, let me show you quickly, the house of commons where the debate is under
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way, this evening. this is the debate if you are justjoining way, this evening. this is the debate if you arejustjoining us on the statutory instrument. a motion that the government has brought to change the official brexit day from 29 march to 1th april or 22 may. it will be on the paper, it will be the 12th april because the 22nd may is only there if they get theresa may's deal through. just one of the many complexities there is round the brexit debate at the moment. let me remind you though, that in the last half an hour, they have been voting is on eight options on a ballot paper, option b. option b —john baron: leaving the eu without a deal on april 12. option d nick boles: common market 2.0 or norway—plus. that's the uk remaining
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in the single market and a customs partnership 0ption h george eustice. the norway option without a customs union. in other words the eea and efta. 0ptionj ken clarke: leaving the eu with a uk wide customs union. 0ption k jeremy corbyn: labour s brexit plan — a permanent labour s brexit plan — a permanent customs union plus alignment with single market on future eu rights and regulations. 0ption ljoanna cherry: the revoking article 50 option, if a no—deal brexit is not explicitly approved by mp5 a day before we leave. 0ption m margaret beckett. where there would be a referendum to seek public approval of any withdrawal agreement. option 0 marcus fysh: the malthouse plan b option. favoured by the eurosceptic erg.
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if the withdrawal agreement is not approved, then the government must seek a "standstill" agreement with the eu, while negotiating a future trade deal. so those are your runners and riders. woe expect a result on that round about 9pm. david gaukejoin us. did you know about theresa may?” didn't know there was some speculation she would going to make an announcement of the type she did, but no, ijust managed to squeeze in toa but no, ijust managed to squeeze in to a very crowded committee room and get in, and saw her mange the announcement. it was a very moving statement, and she was, you know, very clearly making the case that look, if is what it takes to get the deal over the line, if, which she beliefs rightly in my view that is in the national interest, then i will be go once brexit is done, and
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i thought it was a very touching, moving speech. yes. just asking our two contributors who were here, does that start the firing gun on the leadership. stephen said it had been going on for some time, will it hot up going on for some time, will it hot up now? i thinkjust at the moment, there is enough for mp5 to be focussed on. yes. i think that really is what we should all be focussing on, there is more than enough to deal with in terms of we have had the indicative votes this evening, we have statutory instrument also this evening, look, you know, have the meaningful vote in the next couple of days it focuses minds among some in the house, particularly those who want a softer brexit, that coming along maybe a more brexit inclined prime minister and so there will be a rush within the commons to get to a softer brexit to tie down whoever comes next? the focus is making sure there is support for the prime minister's deal, the prime
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minister's deal, the prime minister's deal, the prime minister's deal which is, if you like a compromise, but i think a sensible one in terms of properly leaving the european union, and respecting the referendum result, while at the same time protecting ourjobs and security, and respecting the good friday agreement. what i hope is as a consequence of the process that we are going through at the moment, as are going through at the moment, as a consequence of the prime minister making it clear that she will be round for phase one but not phase two of the negotiation, that the house of commons can rally around her proposals which i think is the best route forward. my sense is there is a mood in that direction, there is a mood in that direction, there is a mood in that direction, there is movement as people are coming over and recognising although they may have sincerely held views and concerns about the deal, the best interests given the choices available is to support the deal. i hope we can get that threw. you are in the justice department, yourjob is the law and obvious ily the way the house operates will be of
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interest. john bercow says no, you can't bring this deal back, what are you saying to him and the clerks of the house to try and bring it back? it is not part of my responsibility, there is parliamentary procedure. it would be disappointing if there is, it is the will of parliament to pass this particular meaningful vote, which is very important for our country, if there is parliamentary procedure that stands in the way, to be honest, but i know there are others who are better experienced and more expert than i am in terms of parliamentary procedure. but are those discussions going on tonight? i know there is anger is trying to rule it out. i know the chief whip made it clear to the parliamentary party we are considering what our options are and trying to do everything we can to bring it through. i don't think it would be right for parliamentary procedure to stand in the way of a motion, if it has got substantial support and the
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context of course, has changed, if we are seeing lots of people coming over, when the previous votes, there area over, when the previous votes, there are a lot of my colleagues who were tolding out. a lot are saying they would support the meaningful vote, they recognise given the choices available it is right to get the deal over the line, and i hope that ina deal over the line, and i hope that in a different context, that there have been in that sense, you know, substantial changes from where we we re substantial changes from where we were before. some are asking what is the point of the indicative votes this evening if they are not legally binding, but nick boles among other has said parliament will try to mandate whatever option comes to the fore, i understand the attorney general has said to the cabinet if they did that and the prime minister ignored it she would there breach of the ministerial code. things could ru nway the ministerial code. things could runway from the government in the next few days. what i hope happens in the next few days we get her deal through, in the meaningful vote or however we need to do it, so that
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essentially puts it to bed and that is done, and therefore there is no need for further indicative votes or anything of that sort, that is all behind us, we have got the deal, it is the deal that is agreed. would you accept this is the very last chance, friday is the very last chance. some colleagues might be prevaricating the they don't vote for it on friday it will be taken away from them? two point, one is the agreement with the european union was that we have an automatic extension to the 22nd may if we get the deal through this week, if we don't get it this week it is not clear that we will have until 22nd may, it is not automatic, secondly, i think there is a question that parliament takes over, and that is why i think a lot of my colleagues, who for completely sincere reasons had their doubts about the deal. voted against it injanuary, voted against it in march, and are now saying they will support it, given an opportunity because a they think
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you have to look at the balance of risks and for them the risk of not supporting the deal is they might lose brexit all together. they are right to be worried about that, and i think they should support the deal in the next couple of days, who will you support in the leadership battle ? you support in the leadership battle? i am not thinking about that. not give me a thought? we have enough to be thinking.” that. not give me a thought? we have enough to be thinking. i thought i would try. thank you very much indeed. let us take you to the commons because the debate is under way. robin walker the junior brexit minister is seen taking questions butjohn bercow is talk, let us have a listen. from the official report to wing twice the despatch box, during the course of this consideration and the minister might then be in a particular further to respond to the honourable gentleman. minister.” beg his pardon, point of order. thank you mr speaker, could you advice me whether what members
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opposite are objecting to, is the use of the royal prerogative, and the logic which allow us to sign up to international treaties, using that power and the logic of what they are arguing is we should get rid of the queen. isimply rid of the queen. i simply say to the right honourable lady it is not to me to offer an exegesis, about what people think about the use of the royal prerogative. it will be on the record. oh very well. point of order. very quicklyer there are some people in this house who want to get rid of her majesty but they are not on this side, they are on hers.” her majesty but they are not on this side, they are on hers. i am very grateful to the right honourable gentleman but i wonder if we might return to the relatively narrow
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ambit of the statutory instrument. minister robin walker.” ambit of the statutory instrument. minister robin walker. i am aware of the huge amount of work undertaken by members across this house to outnies the statutory instrument, if this instrument were not to pass, that work would be undermined by the legal uncertainty created. if on the other hand we pass today's infreedom of movement, the only thing that would change across all of these iss is the moment they come into force, aligning with the time of our exit, so they work properly. i remain hopeful that this house will support the prime minister's deal and we will leave the eu on the 22nd may with a short technical extension to ensure we can pass the necessarily legislation, this instrument is without prejudice to whether that is the case. i hope this house can agree on the necessity of this instrument, and approve it so it can come into force and avoid serious confusion and uncertainty for businesses and individuals. i beg to
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move mr speaker. robin walker, the junior brexit minister, we will keep across that debate. at some point shortly after 9.00 we expect the speaker to give us some of the results for the indicative vote. let us talk about that, with me is the vice—chairman of the conservative party. good evening. good evening. you have cast your ballot this evening on the greenpeace of paper? i have indeed. go you want to tell us how you? i abstained, but i voted against the things i thought would stop brexit so i voted against the revoking article 50, i voted against the labour motion which is same thing as staying in the eu and i voted against the effectively the second referendum, otherwise i abstained, because i didn't want the attention to be on any other than trying to get the prime minister's deal through. how trying to get the prime minister's dealthrough. how many trying to get the prime minister's deal through. how many others do you think have abstained. quite a few.
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0ne think have abstained. quite a few. one thing that has changed in the last few days and hours is there is momentum now coming back to the deal, the prime minister's deal, and i don't think that is surprising because when you are faced with the alternatives, all of a sudden the first option that was there suddenly might look more plaitedable than previously, so you know, in some ways it was to be expected. andrew mitchell who was here last night, he was one of the 30 rebel, he said he voted for it because he saw the let win amendment as an instrument of torture that would focus minds. how many do you think are starting to shift their position? it is difficult to tell, but there are a few. and also you are sensing this in the associations in the country as well, this focus on just get it down, and that message is coming to mp5, so there is lots of discussions going none the tea room, as well as more pressure coming from constituency associations. bow you have a hard—core that won't vote for
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it within the erg, the eurosceptic group and a few on the remain side who wanted referendum two, the likes of dominic grievers itself so you will need labour votes. we might do. that was the case all along. we have had some. it is crunch time now. if you are a labour mp in a leave seat you are a labour mp in a leave seat you have to think carefully. do you wa nt you have to think carefully. do you want it all to be over and move forward or more years of chaos? that is also making minds change even on the labour side as well. as a backbencher, are you somewhat relieved that the prime minister's announced she is going, because it gives the party a chance for renewal, a chance to reset. it has been a pretty grim time. three more ministers going the other night. posts that are vacated. very little going on apart from brexit. it has been a sorry time. i have challenged that point, very little going on apart from brexit. there is very
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little covered apart from brexit. all the stuff with offensive weapons and so on. so there is a domestic agenda going on. that is buried under brexit. we find that frustrating. i didn't go into politics for brexit but it has consumed my time, and which are keep to get on with the domestic agenda. the prime minister recognises that, i think the prime minister recognises that, ithink again the prime minister recognises that, i think again the prime minister didn't get into politics for brexit. i think we are keen to get back together and focus on that domestic agent za i was listening to one mp the other day and there has been a lot thrown at mp, embarrassment, they don't know what they are doing and the rest of it. people like you are trying to balance a lot of voices in your constituency, i mean, just in terms of dealing with that, asa just in terms of dealing with that, as a backbench mp, what has its been like? there is a lot of noise, a lot of people contact us through e—mail and social media, what is different when you get into the constituency, you walk round, you knock on door, you walk round, you knock on door, you talk to people you get a different view than on social media
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and e—mail, because it's a small percentage of people who interact with them that way. there is a lot more reasonableness and a lot more good will for the prime minister. they recognise that dedication, commitment and tenacity and you o have to take all opinions into account. has it been stressful for some of your colleagues? it is no doubt it has been stressful. that is what we get paid for. we are paid to make difficult decision, we are paid to use jourment. we are not delegate, some times that is difficult to explain. do you think thatis difficult to explain. do you think that is understood in the country. it is an unprecedented thing, do you think they cut you enough slack? i mean that on both sides of the house? parliament's divided. there is no doubt about that, so is the country. we go back to number, the referendum result was 52—48. we had a general election that didn't give a general election that didn't give a decisive result. parliament is reflecting the country, despite the criticism, thing a nighisation we are going through is reflective of
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the country as well. we are diverse, if we were voting 70, 80% we goult be ereflecting the country, so we are divided, we are trying to get a consensus, we are trying to get a decent result. i would say in some ways the criticism is deserved. we are not behaving in a way we should do but the fact we have a divided house of commons reflects the country. good to get your thought, thank you. so, let us have a quick look at the house of commons, where the debate isjob going, if you are just joining the debate isjob going, if you are justjoining us is the debate to move the brexit date. we would orderly be what, nearly 48—hours away from brexit, but the date has been shifted to 12th april so in domestic law they have to change that, to match the agreement made at the european council summit on friday. i am the european council summit on friday. iam not the european council summit on friday. i am not sure yet whether we will get a vote on this tonight but it may come to pass, because there
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area it may come to pass, because there are a lot of conservatives mp5 who will rebel against the whip and vote against the date being shifted. let us check in with may anygrimly. quite an evening. keeping on top of it all, you have had the prime minister in the 1922 committee saying she will go and indicative votes a nd saying she will go and indicative votes and now moving the brexit date, i mean how hour—to—hour this story gallo ps date, i mean how hour—to—hour this story gallops along. it does and every time one question is solved another pops up. the big one is what will happen if theresa may can't get her deal through the house of commons? if she can get it through, then there is a road map for her leaving and a tory leadership contest. what if she can't? does she have to quit because of huge humiliation in the house of commons, or does she say look, the country is in such chaos they have to stay at the hell him and steady the ship.” wonder about that, when previous prime ministers have announced they are leaving very quickly authority ebbs away. i think that is another
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big problem for the prime minister. westminster is always obsessed with who is up and who is down. to a fault to be frank, so is the media. a big problem now is that whatever she says will be drowned out by attention on whatever michael gove is saying or what borisjohnson is saying, or who is in and who is out and it will be very hard for her to get her authority and her voice heard. david gauke who was here saying oh no, we have plenty to concentrate our minds on, there is no question the main candidates for the leadership will be out there tomorrow, canvassing aren't they. of course, and in a sense they would be mad not to. that is why, you know borisjohnson surprisingly, unsurprisingly is backing her deal now, he loves the thoughts of her going. it is game on for him. we have always known he wants to be prime minister. but i think at the end of the day this sun chris —— country is in a huge mess. i asked
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peter hennessey is it the worst crisis since suez? he said this is suez in slow motion. and then a bit more. suez on steroids. exactly! you can see that really, we are running out of historical precedent, we are back to 1940, the fall of chamberlain and the ascent of churchill. we will see whether tonight is a step in the right direction. direction. thank you you very much indeed. so in the house of commons right now, mp5 are debating the formal change to brexit day from the formal change to brexit day from the 29th march to either the 12th april or 22nd may, depending whether they pass the deal. and they will be voting on that, we think, later tonight. mp5 have already been casting a ballot on eight proposals on the future of brexit, the so—called indicative votes and earlier this evening, as naomi has been telling you theresa may told her mp5 she will step down in time for the next phase of the negotiations, it is a busy night
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here in westminster, stay with bbc news, for 0utside source. hello, i'm ros atkins, this is 0utside source. theresa may has told her mp5 she won't stay on as prime minsiter — if her brexit deal is passed by parliament. her ministers have been reacting. while the prime minister has given her indication tonight as to her long—term position, ultimately, we have to deal with the here and now, what she was so clear on i'm getting what she was so clear on in getting behind the deal, making brexit happen, get the vote through this place. mp5 have been voting on eight different brexit options — they include plans for a customs union, another referendum and a no—deal brexit. this is the scene live in the commons where mp5 are now debating the legislation needed to change brexit day in uk law

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