tv BBC News at Five BBC News April 1, 2019 5:00pm-6:00pm BST
in that share the having invested in that share the responsibility, would respect the judgment. however, iam responsibility, would respect the judgment. however, i am very happy in this case to respond to his points. first, in relation to his motion appertaining to the backstop, he makes his own point in his own way. i have to make a judgment about what i think is reasonable in terms of going forward, and in this debate, colleagues, we are not acting alone, we are acting in a negotiation with the european union. and the point that the honourable gentleman feel strongly about is expressed in this motion for the first time, but it has been aired repeatedly, i don't see that critically, but as a matter—of—fact, since the publication in november of the withdrawal agreement. and repeated commitments have been made to seeka repeated commitments have been made to seek a re—examination of that point by the union, and it has become very clear over a period of months that that re—examination
it may or may not feature in the future but in terms of trying to broker progress now, i did not think it would be the most sensible motion to choose at this time. secondly, in relation to the so—called no deal motion, if the honourable gentleman will forgive me and frankly, even if he won't, i am going to replay to him his own point in my support rather than his. the honourable gentleman somewhat exasperated i have not selected his motion, quizzical, let's say, says, mr speaker, leaving without a deal on the 12th of april is the legal default. the honourable gentleman is exactly right. it is precisely because it is the default position in law that having it on the paper in my view is a rhetorical
assertion, but it is a statement of fa ct assertion, but it is a statement of fact and it does not in myjudgment required debate. that is the first bite. 0n the second point in relation to that selfsame motion is that in looking at it, the honourable gentleman and gender in evident disapproval if he so wishes, but it does not detract from the fa ct but it does not detract from the fact i am making that point i am making and he doesn't like it and we will leave it there. the simple fact of the matter, voted upon last week, was rejected by 400 votes to 160. a significant number of members of the house did not follow but even if every member who house did not follow but even if every memberwho did house did not follow but even if every member who did not vote on that motion last week were to vote in favour of it this week, it still would not pass. i see my duty as trying to advance matters. whatever think about this issue, whatever side of the argument they said, they feel, can we not make some progress?
and it is introduced of —— pursuit of progress that i have made the disinterested, i use that old—fashioned term, disinterested judgment that i have made to serve the house. i understand it will not please everybody but it happens to be my view and it is an honest one. and it is my bestjudgment. i do say to colleagues, i will take points of order indefinitely. i am not sure it will greatly advance matters. thank you, mr speaker. i have always found you, mr speaker. i have always found you very patient in hearing the concerns of any colleague in this house and always very passionate about the rulings that you make. the other day, you made a ruling in relation to meaningful vote three and you said you wanted to make it clear that you did expect the test of change to be met. they should not seek to circumvent my ruling by
means of tabling either a not with motion... we will leave the chamber of the commons there. the speaker, john bercow, telling mps that he has selected four of the options this evening, ken clarke's idea of a customs union with the european union, nick bowles, who wants a common market 2.0, a brexit deal to a public vote, and the fourth one is to give parliament a final vote to avoid a no deal and revoke article 50 asa avoid a no deal and revoke article 50 as a last resort. those are the four options that will be subject to indicative votes in the house of commons later. as the commons tries to come up with a consensus view of
how brexit should happen. those votes will be at around eight o'clock. we will not get the results until maybe ten o'clock. let's go to oui’ until maybe ten o'clock. let's go to our chief political correspondent. talk to us about what this means and what is the betting really on any of these getting majority support in these getting majority support in the commons? a lot of speculation that ken clarke's customs union may just get through. he was the closest last time without one. you can see what the speaker has done. those motions about no deal, he has not selected those, his explanation is not only have they been defeated and defeated pretty heavily, but his point is in law, the default position is still that we leave without a deal, unless a deal is brought throughout this whole process is a unique kind of process and it is about trying to find some progress, trying to see if there's anything that mps would agree on. that is why he has selected the ones
he has. what has changed since last tiny for example the common market 2.0, for example, the snp have said they will back this time. and labour have said they will actively support it. they will tell mps to vote for it. they will tell mps to vote for it. last time, those in favour of a second referendum did not bat these other so—called softer brexit options, which is why they was really no majority for any of them. last time round, it was noted to every single other option. we will have to see tonight if there is a difference. and crucially, what does the government do, how do they react to this, if there is one such as a customs union, with mp5 say they are in favour of? the cabinet is meeting in various forms tomorrow for five hours. they will have to thrash out what they do next and whether theresa may is tries again to bring her deal back. you are a brexiteer
who has not backed theresa may's deal. what do you make of the process going on tonight?m deal. what do you make of the process going on tonight? it is another stage of the process. do i think it will come out with a result and if there is anything that we will do on the basis of it? i suspect this time round we will get a support for the customs union. i think there is growing support for that and even those that support some of the other things you have mentioned will probably support that. my guess is that'll come out as the leader. in terms of what should happen and what the primary so should happen and what the primary so should do, these are not legally binding votes and she has always maintained that a customs union is something which we have always said i'io something which we have always said no to, we have always said in our manifesto, when we were in the referendum, no to a customs union. she has also said she will not let no deal happen unless there is a vote in parliament. we know how people feel about a no—deal brexit. it has been roundly defeated. if you
won't pack her deal, she might say, i have little choice but to go for something that i know mps can get round and that could be a customs union. however, the reality is that i'io union. however, the reality is that no deal, whatever parliamentarians have said, is still something that can be put through, without going to parliament and without going to the european union. but that means she has to go back at what she said at the dispatch box. she said they will only be no—deal brexit once there has been a vote in this house. that will be a change. if you remember, as faras will be a change. if you remember, as far as she concerned, it was no deal is better than a bad deal and this is a bad deal. i don't touch —— put much weight behind the fact she has said it is not something she will do. she has to think, which is eight and you are right, it will be a stark contrast between no deal and the union and i think she has to balance politically what the country once and for me, it is a no—brainer,
it is no deal. i'll not concern that mps have managed to take hold of the business of the house, something normally able to do, they are able to hold these votes and potentially later in the week or next week bring ina law later in the week or next week bring in a law to rule out what you want, ano in a law to rule out what you want, a no deal. does that not concern you and maybe persuade you towards theresa may's deal, rather than that option quite a modern, and i would say it is a novel process. we are no further forward today than we were after the last load. i am not sure it is hugely attractive and it does not get us very far. in terms of your actual question, i think for me the concern about any future legislation is that most bills that go through parliament have to have a resolution and that resolution can only be brought by a minister of the government. you think they couldn't
actually bring in a bill of any kind to rule out no deal? correct, i don't. explain to me why you would be against a customs union or indeed the common market 2.0 solution.“ you look at what is in the deal, what people have chosen to ignore is thatis what people have chosen to ignore is that is a customs union, so it has all the faults that this alternative proposal has, the only difference is there is no backstop to it. fundamentally, we don't get our sovereignty back, we have more than we have now but ultimately the ecj and others still have control and secondly and most importantly, there was an economic benefit dividend which we all wanted to come out of out which we all wanted to come out of our decision for brexit, if we go into a customs union then we cannot enter into free trade deals with third—party countries, reason, if you are going to have those deals, you are going to have those deals, you have to be able to negotiate on
tariffs and negotiate on the regulation that will be accepted as comparable. if we are in the customs union, we cannot do either of those two things. the reality is that europe is going into recession, the re st of europe is going into recession, the rest of the world is frankly on the up rest of the world is frankly on the up and we want to be trading with the rest of the world. thank you very much indeed and there are members of the cabinet to agree with that view, they don't think a customs union, that kind of future relationship with the eu is a proper brexit. that is how some like liam fox would articulate it. they think theresa may are possibly a steel is the option and if not, some of them would be more willing to go towards a no—deal brexit than any softer version. a huge dilemma, not for the first time, for theresa may and her cabinet tomorrow, potentially. let's explore these four motions in a little more detail. chris morris is
with me right now. let's talk about whether mps might go for a softer brexit and what form of softer brexit. talk us through these options. let's start with the customs union. as you say, a soft brexit means some kind of economic relationship in the future, which is closer than is suggested by theresa may. in a customs union, you'd have no tariffs or customs checks between goods going between britain and the eu, but that means you have the same ta riffs eu, but that means you have the same tariffs on goods coming in from the rest of the world. the other thing is on its own, and i think emma clarke knows this, it does not resolve the issue of keeping the irish border is open as it is now ——
andi irish border is open as it is now —— and i think ken clarke knows this. neither does it resolve the fear that they could be long delays at places like dover and calais. customs checks are not the only checks that take place at borders. we have the idea of common market 2.0, which many people see as a throwback to the days when britain was in the common market, effectively. and a name deliberately chosen because it is possibly a bit more user—friendly than norway plus, it also a lot of people have said in the referendum campaign, i voted backin the referendum campaign, i voted back in the 19705 to join the common market, not this political union. the idea of common market 2.0, it would be based around membership of the single market. what that means i5 the single market. what that means is if you have the same rules and regulations governing all aspects of the economy, that is good for a lot of businesses and it means if you are in the chemical industry, the pharmaceutical injury, the
regulation will be the same across europe, it is easier to do business. the big thing is, the big problem for the government and certainly for many torie5, i5 for the government and certainly for many torie5, is that it also the four freedoms, freedom of many torie5, is that it also the fourfreedoms, freedom of movement and goods, capital, and people. and the free movement of people is the redde5t of theresa may'5 red lines. you could argue that actually the referendum ha5 you could argue that actually the referendum has already me a gift —— made a difference to the free movement of people because if you look at the numbers, the rate of people arriving into the uk has fallen quite 5harply 5ince people arriving into the uk has fallen quite 5harply since the referendum but still, thi5 fallen quite 5harply since the referendum but still, this plan, although they will be some in urgency way5 although they will be some in urgency ways to put a brake on free movement in pretty limited circumstances, thi5 movement in pretty limited circumstances, this plan, common market 2.0, would mean that continues. what has happened to no deal? it is not being voted on today. the thing about no deal, we
know roughly half the conservative party members of parliament would like us to leave with no deal but it i5 like us to leave with no deal but it is worth bearing in mind that even if you leave with no deal, that is not an end 5tate, if you leave with no deal, that is not an end state, you still need to go on to form some sort of trade relationship in the future and most of them would like a very basic free trade agreement along the lines of the one the eu has negotiated in recent years with canada. that would have certain accurate —— aspects of the customs union, but it would not get rid of other checks and bureaucracy and it certainly would be not solving the problems of the irish border. we are going to dip back into the chamber now. ken clarke is speaking now. it does not conflict with the withdrawal agreement. if this motion is passed or is subsumed by common market two, which i will also vote
for, then the easiest way of proceeding is for the government to proceeding is for the government to proceed with its withdrawal agreement tomorrow, the labour party to abstain because it is no longer such a blind brexit and get the serious negotiations which this country has not even yet with its 27 partner nations. it does not conflict with the case that has been made for many members for a further referendum, either a confirming referendum, either a confirming referendum or a people's vote. the referendum or a people's vote. the referendum is about whether a public vote has got to be... the whether the public have changed their minds and whether we are firmly committed to the eu, now that we know what is happening. that is the process, a very important process. i have been abseiling on that. i am not very
fond of referendums, myself, but there we are. what this motion is concerned with is quite different subject, it is the substance of the negotiations, if we get beyond april the 12th. it is beginning to set out what the government has a majority for, what it has been given a mandate for, when it starts those negotiations, and the separate issue, whether at any stage a referendum is called for can be debated and voted on quite separately. advocates of a people's vote are separately. advocates of a people's vote a re not separately. advocates of a people's vote are not serving any particular interest if they vote for a people's vote and somehow vote against this to make sure that somehow gets a bigger majority. both can be accommodated. i shall be accused of bias if i give way to my right honourable friend. and so i urge the
liberals to proceed on that basis. similarly the scottish nationalists. i agree with them but i would prefer to stay in the european union, but i am afraid in trying to give this country some good and stable governance by giving it... i compromised on that because a huge majority seemed to have condemned as to leaving the european union. i have voted with the scottish nationalists that we should revoke article 50 if the problem of no deal seems to be looming towards us by accident and i will again. i can't understand why the scottish nationalists will not at least contemplate if they can't get their way and stay in the european union voting for a permanent customs union, which will benefit businesses
in scotland, benefit the economy in scotland, just as much as year—round is not remotely incompatible with pursuing their wider aims. i will of course give the runner—up lady... we will come back out of the chamber and let's go and get the thoughts of our europe correspondence. a5 and let's go and get the thoughts of our europe correspondence. as the european union watches the latest events in the house of commons this evening and these indicative votes on various options as we have been hearing, customs union, common market and so on, what do you think they would like to see emerge this evening? i think it is pretty clear what they really wa nt i think it is pretty clear what they really want to see, they have their fingers crossed that some clear direction can come from this and ideally, something that the government then is able to pick up
and implement and implement crucially from the eu, possibly as point of view, that withdrawal agreement that is already on the table. this is guy verhofsdadt tweeting today. that pretty much sums it up. we heard a similar thing from jean—claude juncker. he has heard a similar thing from jean—claudejuncker. he has said today, it is time to get the sphinx speaking. we have had enough of the silence, he said. what the eu wants is that withdrawal agreement to be approved because we are now facing, april 12, of next week, the hard deadline at the minute, on which day the uk would exit the eu with no
agreement, unless something else is agreed or some other action turn —— comes from the uk to try and change that. if parliament can agree on one of these motions this evening, then it is up to the prime minister, to what extent will the yield be trying to put pressure on theresa may to endorse what parliament has decided —— the endorse what parliament has decided -- the eu? we will see. the parliament, the eu, he will wait for a direction. it is negotiating with theresa may, not parliament back in london, but one of the concerns here is whether theresa may on the government will actually follow what parliament indicates because there is real concern that they could then have gridlock. parliament may indicate something today that the government tomorrow does not want to follow through on all causes splits. one concern is about the gridlock, the other concern is about all of these
things are going to take time to negotiate. it will take time and a lot of the details are still very sketchy and vague. it will be a difficult process. what they would like to see is a clear coalescing of opinion in the uk and then i think they will engage with that year, without clear direction. thank you very much indeed. we will have much more on brexit and the latest developments in the house of commons later on this hour but first of all, some of the day's other news now. one of the key radicalise as was... i one of the key radicalise as was... ,an one of the key radicalise as was... , an older student who was being monitored at the time by
counter—terrorism elise and m15. when the restrictions ended, he left for syria, where he was subsequently killed. this exclusive report comes from daniel sandford. just five years ago, he was an enthusiastic student at the university of westminster. but he abandoned his degree and became one of at least seven young men from the university who went to join iis. obviously, we came here intending to fight. that is the honest truth. there is a part of me that wants to avenge and there is another part for
any muslim youth who wants to live in this supposedly utopian. the bbc has found he was one of a stream of 5tu d e nts has found he was one of a stream of students and former students at westminster university who went to fight for is in syria, one of the first to go was the killer known as jihadi john. these two followed in 2014. three men from the university were killed, he says. he began his studies in westminster in 2012 and at the time, he was being closely monitored by mis he was being closely monitored by m15 and was on a protection measure because he had been to somalia to
fight, but despite all that, he was able to play a key rolling recruiting and radicalising students on campus. court papers show that a judge actually reduced the restrictions to allow him greater contact with fellow students. as soon as contact with fellow students. as soon as the restrictions expired, he left for syria. he helped write an independent report mentioned by the university five years ago when it realised it had a problem. it thinks that he thinks the university failed in its duty of care. there was no challenge to views that we re there was no challenge to views that were clearly extremist in nature. when you have no challenge to thighs kind of use, they become part of the norm. today, westminster university pointed out that these events took place almost five years ago. in a statement it said...
birmingham prison is being permanently ta ken back into public ownership ending private security firm g4s's involvement with the jail. g45 was awarded a 15—year contract to operate hmp birmingham, also known as winson green, in 2011 but in august last year, peter clarke, the chief inspector of prisons, said the jail had fallen into a "state of crisis" and was the "worst" he'd come across. this is the second time in three years that g45 has lost a major public sector contract. the party of president erdogan of turkey has suffered sweeping losses in local elections across the country, losing control of the capital, ankara. his akp party is also behind in the biggest city istanbul, with only a few ballot boxes left to be counted. voters appear to have turned against his party as the country suffers a deep recession. mark lowen reports from istanbul. it seemed to be unimaginable, but turkey's opposition candidate
looks like he has done it, taking control of the country's economic powerhouse, istanbul. ekrem imamoglu seems to have won the city byjust a few thousand votes and he's savouring it. it went down to the wire last night. the governing ak party candidate, a former prime minister himself, claimed victory here prematurely. there is a turkish saying — whoever wins istanbul, wins turkey, and losing this city will be an agonising blow to president erdogan. but his pain didn't stop there. in the capital, ankara, the opposition celebrated a win after a quarter of a century, gaining several other cities, too, as the tide turns in their favour. it was a chastened mr erdogan who addressed his supporters at the party hq — not the combative triumphalism of the past, but an acknowledgement that he's losing his base. translation: starting tomorrow
morning, we will begin our work to identify our shortcomings and begin to make up for them. with early morning, a parallel reality. the government has put up billboards thanking istanbul for its victory. they have now been taken down as residents take in a momentous result. translation: for istanbul, we were confident, we were sure but i'm obviously sad about ankara. it is a surprise. but i think the people of ankara will recognise their mistake and come back to the akp. for 16 years, president erdogan has dominated turkey. revered and reviled in equal measure, the champion of conservative, pious turks has transferred the country's infrastructure, but he has clamped down on opponents and burned bridges with the west and is now being punished for an economic crisis.
for long, president erdogan has seemed unbeatable here with a fractured, moribund opposition. that has now changed and it will breathe life into his opponents and could even prompt talk of his party splitting. this feels like a watershed moment for turkey and its leader as he finally begins to lose his grip on this polarised country. mark lowen, bbc news, istanbul. it isa it is a beautiful evening at westminster. let's get a look at the latest weather forecast. a different feel, bringing about this changes this area, heavy showers. some showers this evening and the odd heavier one. and they are the move overnight. never quite reaching the south—east but one or two isolated showers coming up from france. the chance... lots of cloud
through north—east england. outbreaks of rain for the morning rush—hour. that'll spread towards east anglia and the south—east. but it does mean lots of sunshine elsewhere. there will be some big shower clouds forming. showers frequent in northern ireland, wales and the south—west. a colder day at eight to 10 celsius and even colder for many on wednesday. frequent april showers continuing into thursday.
hello again. you are watching bbc news with me, ben brown, here at westminster. the latest headlines: the house of commons speaker has selected four of nine brexit alternative proposals to be considered by mp5 this evening. voting begins at 8 o'clock. labour and the snp indicate backing for the uk to leave the eu, but stay in the single market and customs union. despite theresa may's deal being rejected three times by mp5, there could be a fourth vote this week. in other news, teachers and nurses could be legally obliged to warn about young people at risk of violence — that's one of the ideas being discussed at a knife crime summit today. the bbc has learned that birmingham prison is being permanently taken back into public ownership in a move which will end g4s's involvement with the jail.
the minimum wage goes up, in what is in effect a pay rise for two million workers. but at the same time, a string of household bills have gone up too. those are our latest headlines. let's get the sport with reshmin. thank you very much. rangers striker alfredo morelos has been banned for four matches after being sent off in yesterday's old firm derby defeat to celtic. it's the colombian's fifth red card of the season, this time for elbowing celtic‘s scott brown. plus an additional two matches because of prior offences.