tv BBC News at Ten BBC News April 1, 2019 10:00pm-10:31pm BST
will be do anything but she will be listening very closely. —— will not oblige her to do anything. we will continue coverage here on bbc news and also on bbc world news. it's 10pm in the evening here in the uk. welcome to outside source, i'm ros atkins here are the pictures in the house of commons as labour mps start to ta ke house of commons as labour mps start to take their seats, we may get the outcome of these four indicative votes within minutes. we thought initially it would be in half an hour's time, it could be sooner, needless to say when that happens we will bring this to you, and the context of this event last friday, theresa may failed for a third time to get any part of her brexit through parliament. today we see a continuation of a parallel process where mps vote on alternative courses of action. this week they're voting four options. we are
expecting results very soon. in the meantime, let me quickly talk you through the for options they will be facing, and christian fraser will help me, live from westminster. option one, common market 2.0, the softest of brexit? it was convincingly defeated in the first round of votes, but we are expecting a very different result for the plan that nick boles has put forward, particularly at the snp have indicated that they will support it. common market 2.0, sometimes known as norway plus, would keep the uk in both the single market and the customs union. it is not the kind of brexit that one half of the conservative party would be in favour of. it rules out the uk doing its own trade deals, but it does keep the border open and there is a deal on
services as well. but it is not a bespoke option, a sort of cherry that you can pick and say, now we can move on. there would still need to be negotiation, but it may answer some of the concerns that the european union has. the other option is of course the customs union, which has been put forward by the conservative mp ken clarke. it failed by just conservative mp ken clarke. it failed byjust six votes last time. so it will be interesting to see how many conservative mps get across this. when the speaker comes back in the next few minutes and you hear these results, you will have to look at what size of a majority of these options have. what the european union is looking for is a stable coalition, a coalition that can take this through the house once they have decided what it is likely to be. of course, the customs union a nswer be. of course, the customs union answer is 90% of the problems they have with the border in ireland because it would keep the border open for goods. with that customs
union option, you could have some international trade deals on services, but again, it gives away one of the big benefits that brexiteers would want from the referendum result. before we go to the other two, let me ask you about those options. are they primarily supported by people who would rather stay in the european union and this is just the most diluted form of brexit, or other appropriate mps who prefer this? there are some progress mps like george eustice, who put his own norway option last week without a customs union, who have now fallen in behind nick boles because he prefers these options to some of the research they have seen about what no deal would mean for the uk economy. so they would rather have a soft brexit than no deal at all. and perhaps they don't like the idea of being trapped in, as they would see it, in the european union indefinitely, so this is the best option for them. perhaps there are some brexiteers, and you could look at ken clarke, who is of course
someone at ken clarke, who is of course someone who has supported the european union for years, you might think this is an option we can go for now, but attach a second referendum to it and put it to the people and see what they want. but his preference ultimately would be to stay within the european union. so there is a variety of issues and thoughts within the conservative ranks. so those are two of the options. let's move to the third, which would be a confirmatory referendum regardless of the nature ofa referendum regardless of the nature of a brexit deal. yes. this was sponsored the first time round by margaret beckett and it did well. it came out top. but when you look at the abstention column, there is not much room for adding to the number we saw last time. we know the second referendum is not getting a parliamentary majority. however, those who support a people's vote would say if it comes out somewhere near the top tonight, maybe they can attach that as an amendment to one
of these options that might come out top. christian, i am going tojump in because we are going to hear from the speaker. in respect of mr clarke's motioned c, the senedd were 273, the noes we re c, the senedd were 273, the noes were 276. in respect of mr niklas bolten's motioned d, common market 2.0, the ayes were 261, the noes we re 282, 2.0, the ayes were 261, the noes were 282, so the noes habit. in respect of mr kyle's motion e, the ayes we re respect of mr kyle's motion e, the ayes were 280, the noes were 292, so the noes habit. in respect ofjoe and's motion g, parliamentary supremacy, the ayes were 191, the
noes we re supremacy, the ayes were 191, the noes were 292, so the noes habit. the lists showing how honourable members voted will be published in the usual way on the commons website and in hansard. order. points of order. secretary of state, mr stephen barclay. on a point of order, mr speaker, this is now the second time the house has considered a wide variety of options for a way forward. it has once again failed to find a clear majority for any of the options. and yet the result of the house's decision on friday not to endorse the withdrawal agreement means that the default legal position is that the uk will leave the eu injust 11 days' time. to
secure any further extension, the government will have to put forward a credible proposition to the eu as to what we will do with that extra time. this house has continuously rejected leaving without a deal, just as it has rejected not leaving at all. therefore, the only option is to find a way through which allows the uk to leave with a deal. the government continues to believe that the best course of action is to do so as soon as possible. if the house were to agree a deal this week, it may still be possible to avoid holding european parliamentary elections. mr speaker, cabinet will meet in the morning to consider the results of tonight's's vote and how we should proceed. thank you, secretary of state. point of order, the leader of the opposition, mr
jeremy corbyn. the leader of the opposition, mr jeremy corbyn. on a point of order, it is disappointing that no solution has won a majority this evening, but iremind has won a majority this evening, but i remind the house that the prime minister's an acceptable deal has been overwhelmingly rejected three times. the margin of defeat for one of the options tonight was very narrow indeed. and the prime minister's deal has been defeated by large majorities on three occasions. if it's good enough for the prime minister to have three chances at her deal, then i suggest that possibly the house should have a chance to consider again the options that we had before us today in a debate on wednesday so that the house can succeed debate on wednesday so that the house can succeed where the prime minister has failed in presenting a credible economic relationship with europe for the future that prevents us europe for the future that prevents us crashing out with no deal. thank you to the leader. point of order,
mr ian blackford. thank you, mr speaker. it would indeed be an outrage if the government sought to bring back its deal. it really is about time that the government accepted reality, that the deal that they government put forward has been defeated three times, with the largest defeat in parliamentary history. no. the right honourable gentleman is entitled to be heard and believe me, notwithstanding the shouting from a sedentary position, he will be heard. that's the be all and end all of it, it's as simple as that. the right honourable gentleman will be heard. mr ian blackford. that. the right honourable gentleman will be heard. mr ian blackfordlj acknowledge that i am disappointed tonight that we haven't won with revoke and having a people's vote and the single market customs union, but the reality is that these votes on two occasions have won by a very small number and we need to see
where we can find consensus and work together. but fundamentally from us that represent seats in scotland, we voted to remain in the european union. and tonight, mr speaker, a vast majority of scottish mps have voted to revoke article 50. a vast majority of scottish mps have voted for a people's vote. a vast majority of scottish mps have voted to stay in the single market and customs union. it is crystal clear to us from scotland that our votes in this house are disrespected, and it is becoming increasingly clear to the people of scotland that if we want to secure our future as a european nation, we are going to have to take our own responsibilities. the case is this. sovereignty rests with the people of scotland, not with this house. the day is coming when we will determine our own future, and it will be as an independent country. thank you. i will
it will be as an independent country. thank you. iwill take it will be as an independent country. thank you. i will take a point of order from mr nicholas bowles. i have given everything to an attempt to find a compromise that can take this country out of the european union while maintaining our economic strength and our political cohesion. i accept i have failed. i have failed chiefly because my party refuses to compromise. i regret therefore to announce that i can no longer sit for this party. nick, don't go! the honourable gentleman has told the house of course i shall come to other honourable members. point of order, sir vince cable. come to other honourable members. point of order, sir vince cablem is even clearer than it was the last
time they had indicative votes that there is one compromise option that has very substantial support, that has very substantial support, that has the largest number of votes in the house for a people's vote, larger mustang. is it not possible to combine the two and therefore find a way forward? the right honourable gentleman's character question is of a rhetorical character and invites the response from me, but he has registered his view and i am sure colleagues will reflect. point of order, mr nigel dodds. thank you, mr speaker. the only proposition that has ever had a majority in this house is the brady amendment. that is a fact. whatever members may think, whatever they may say, that is the proposition that has had a majority in this house that could allow the withdrawal agreement to go through. and as
chancellor merkel visits the irish prime minister this thursday, can i say that there is still an opportunity for the prime minister and the government to prosecute the issue which has bedevilled her withdrawal agreement throughout, the backstop. and that if still needs to be addressed. if it is addressed, then we can be in business. point of order, caroline lucas. looking at these figures, i would like to reinforce the comments from the right honourable member for twickenham. i regret what the honourable member for grantham had to do, but if you were to link to his proposal the opportunity to have a public vote, we would have a huge majority in this house. the idea that we would avoid doing that for fear of the democratic moment of the european elections is frankly absurd. why would we be afraid of one democratic event and the fear of
that, avoid a further one? that makes no sense. the prime minister's deal is dead. we should look at where the majorities and this house lie. they lie with a softer brexit, going against a people's vote to the country. point of order, the father of the house, mr kenneth clarke. mr speaker, i have got a damn site near a majority in this house than anybody else has so far. i fear the malthouse compromise is dead. three is quite near. we cannot go on with everybody voting against every proposition. there were people who wa nt proposition. there were people who want a people's vote who wouldn't vote for my motion because they thought they were going to get a people's vote. there were people, the scottish nationalists, who wa nted the scottish nationalists, who wanted common market 2, so wouldn't vote for mine. all of them actually
have nothing against mine. if they continue to do that, they will fail. to the honourable lady, i would say, if you add the people's vote to emotion like mine, you lose votes all over the place and in the labour party. you lose more than you gain. they should accept that they haven't got a majority yet for the people's vote and vote for something which they have no objection at all to as a fallback position. that, mr speaker, is politics, and i sometimes think that this particular parliament that i find myself in is not very political at the moment and it is confounding the general public. studio: the father of the house kenneth clarke, who came up short, but only just.
house kenneth clarke, who came up short, but onlyjust. his option of a customs union was only defeated by three votes. the headline is that all four options were defeated this evening and the sponsor of common market 2, nick boles, who you heard from there, seemingly resigning the whip and saying that he can no longer sit on the conservative benches. we will get reaction to that over the next few minutes but let me bring in dave hennig from the european centre for international political economy. kenneth clarke is obviously speaking truth here. mps on all sides say they need compromise but none of them are prepared to compromise on the issue they support. it is getting closer, to be fair. it was within 20 votes of single market 2.0 and within three votes of customs union. you can feel that somewhere between what the prime minister has put forward at these options, there must be a majority for a soft brexit. but nobody can work out how to find it.
it shouldn't now be impossible to find that. when you look at the ken clarke customs union which lost by three, we should say that the cabinet has not been whipped on this vote tonight. it has abstained. and we know that there are some remain leaning ministers and cabinet secretaries who would support that. some would support it, but some would have been opposed to it as well. so we can't be sure that even with the cabinet, that would have passed. but the ken clarke amendment is not completely dissimilar to what is not completely dissimilar to what is already in the withdrawal agreement. that is the point. when you look at this failed set of votes tonight, how much longer can labour resist the deal that is on the paper that the prime minister keeps bringing back, when many of these options could be incorporated within it? they could be, but you could ask, how long will the prime minister not keep making changes which the eu will say they can do?
so it feels like within an inch of a deal that is probably a soft brexit, but we can't quite get there. the prime minister would have to move and we haven't seen much of that, or labour would have to move, and they did whip in favour of the motion today. if you look at meaningful vote two, which is the whole of theresa may's deal, it got 2112 votes. n i klas theresa may's deal, it got 2112 votes. niklas bolten that got 261 votes. niklas bolten that got 261 votes for his common market 2.0. ken clarke got 273, so both of them have trumped the prime minister's deal. yes. there has been a lot of work. mps have been getting a lot of stick for not coming to a conclusion but we are starting to see them reach a conclusion, having learned a lot through this indicative vote process. so you can see movement and now all eyes will be on cabinet tomorrow to see if the cabinet will do something different. i don't
think we know what the prime minister will do. does she go for a fourth meaningful vote or does she do something that takes into account the will of the house? meanwhile, 280 mp5, a big figure, just slightly bigger than what margaret beckett got last week, or in favour of a referendum. it was defeated by 12, but you could see a scenario where ken clarke says you have to give a bit. come over and support a customs union. there is perhaps a compromise where they say you can have your customs union, but we attach a confirmatory vote to that. the scottish national party did not vote for the ken clarke option. we have not seen who voted for what, but if thatis not seen who voted for what, but if that is the case, they might come on board in return for a referendum. you can see how ideal could potentially be done. but it is not really in the hands of the mps to
make that deal. it is still the government that has to construct a package. and is there any sign that they will take this on board, or can they will take this on board, or can the mps make their own deal? it is all very unclear. of course, the government would say, you have had another go at this and now it is time to have another vote on our deal. and they would say, on friday, we got 286 votes for the withdrawal but, the divorce part of the agreement. they look set to bring it back. steve barclay seemed intent on bringing it back. well, each day seems to bring something new in brexit world at the moment. that is what we are all expecting to happen. but you would hope they might find some way to find a solution to meet the mps halfway in the indicative
vote process. the worry is that if we go to another meaningful vote thatis we go to another meaningful vote that is lost again, we carry on having these parallel processes that don't quite meet. somewhere along the line, they have to reach a solution. just a word on nicholas boles. he has faced a lot of difficulty in his own constituency, with people trying to deselect him tonight. you see that the pressure has finally told or he has run out of patience with his own party. it clearly shows the splits. he has been working on this since the summer been working on this since the summerand been working on this since the summer and there were only a handful of mps working on this then. now to get up to 261 votes, those mps will feel they have made a lot of progress. particularly on the conservative side, they will have taken a lot of abuse. so one can understand why they are feeling better, but it is a sign of the splits and it is a sign that these
divisions may get worse unless we can find divisions may get worse unless we canfind a divisions may get worse unless we can find a way to bring them together. and unless we do, we are back to another meaningful vote. meanwhile, the european union is watching, again pleading today for some sort of consensus on something. four votes have gone down, no agreement, nine days to go. the frustration will have gone up tonight. they were really hoping something would have got a majority, evenif something would have got a majority, even if it was only one, to show a direction of travel. the eu will now be saying to the uk at an official level, what is your plan for next week? we have called a european council meeting. what are you going to ask for when you come? when you look at these figures, we said the customs union was within a hairs breadth. that doesn't make for a sta ble breadth. that doesn't make for a stable coalition. it is one thing to get a yes or no indicative vote, is
another to move that process through the commons when you might get within the conservative ranks a guerrilla movement voting against it. there is a lot of legislation to go through on the back of it. that has to go through the commons. and yes, it can be heavily delayed or affected by such actions or particularly if there are only a couple of votes in it. that could ta ke couple of votes in it. that could take time to go through. tomorrow, a six—hour cabinet meeting. i presume the prime minister is breathing a sigh of relief to light because she doesn't have to take a decision on a parliamentary majority for a way forward. she may be the only one breathing a sigh of relief, because they will still be scratching their heads over where to go forward from here. there has been no indication
in the last few days of anything other than bringing a meaningful vote forward again. so that will be a long cabinet meeting if you are just going to bring back meaningful vote four. so they may be trying to do something else as well. thank you, david. if you arejustjoining us, there were four options on the ballot sheet this evening and again, the mps have rejected all four of them, albeit that the customs union, which went close last time, it only lost by six, it has now lost by three. but again, the common market 2.0 which many people fancied, with the snp coming across and some labour mps voting for it, it has been defeated by 21. and the sponsor of that motion, nick boles, you could clearly see his patients had run out. it looks as if he has resigned the whip. he walked out of the commons saying he could no longer sit with the conservative party, which shows the splits that are there in the tory ranks.
if you are just tuning are there in the tory ranks. if you arejust tuning in, last are there in the tory ranks. if you are just tuning in, last week when we had indicative votes, there we re when we had indicative votes, there were eight options and mps replied no to all of them. today they had four options and they replied no to all of them. the four options they considered were a customs union with the european union proposed by ken clarke, common market 2.0, which would have meant being part of the eu single market, proposed by the conservative mp nick boles, who told his fellow conservatives, you are not compromising, and resigned the tory whip. clearly very close to being in tears as he announced that. also rejected, the idea of a second referendum, although it was close, 280 said yes, 292 said no. and then the idea of forcing parliament to choose between no deal and revoking article 50, that was resoundingly defeated. 191 in favour, 292 not in
favour. those of you watching on bbc world news, thanks for being with us. world news, thanks for being with us. we will have more on brexit in the coming hours. and those watching on the bbc news channel, we are going to continue talking about this. if you'rejustjoining us, parliament has said no to all of the four options in front of them this evening. let's bring christian back in from westminster. so we now turn to the process that begins in earnest this evening and into tomorrow. how does what we have seen in the commons this evening fit with the prime minister's separate process of trying to get a deal through? the difficulty is that the conservatives have not shown much enthusiasm for any of the softer options. that makes it difficult when the prime minister is trying to find some compromise across the house. you saw the sheer frustration
on the face of nick boles in what he said in the house of commons before he walked out. he said his common market 2.0 had been defeated because the conservative party had not got behind him. i havejust seen that only 33 conservative mps voted for common market 2.0 tonight. so although theresa may may be breathing a sigh of relief that she doesn't have to take an instant decision tomorrow on one of these options and put it to her cabinet, she will know that she has got very great difficulty bringing the conservative party around any of the softer options that might find some common mice in the house. let's cut to jessica powell common mice in the house. let's cut tojessica powell in the lobby. common mice in the house. let's cut to jessica powell in the lobby. yes, mps are now streaming out of the house of commons following that result, where we had that none of those options got a majority tonight, although a couple came close. joining is peter dad, shadow chief secretary to the treasury. how did you vote? i have voted on the
boles amendment, which was about norway plus, and i also supported a ratification. what did you make of the results? i don't think they were and inspected. some were very close. there was one in relation to the customs union which lost by three, if you lose is the appropriate word. so it was not particularly unexpected and we have to work our way through this again. what does that mean? it means, can we get a consensus around a particular proposal? you have tried twice. yes, but one person tonight said, i didn't vote for that because it didn't vote for that because it didn't include this element in it. so it may be that you have to tease this out a bit more. this is the situation we are in. the labour party got behind common market 2.0 tonight, with a lot of questions about the fact that that amounts to
freedom of movement. is that a plan that you can keep backing? look, we are in difficult and stressful and strange circumstances. the country is on the edge of leaving the european union and we have got to get the best deal possible. we have got to get something which protects ourjobs and our economy, protect people's environmental and workers' rights. if that means working at this again, so be it. peter dowd, thank you for your time. so the brexit secretary stephen barclay made a point of order after this result came through tonight, saying that the house had again failed to reach a consensus and i am sure these discussions tonight and the possibility of a further meaningful vote will be the subject of further discussions at the lengthy cabinet meeting tomorrow. jessica, thank you. if you are just meeting tomorrow. jessica, thank you. if you arejustjoining us, all four of the options that were on the ballot paper for mps tonight have
been rejected. the closest that mps came was on the customs union, which was defeated by three. the nicholas boles motion, common market 2.0 or norway plus, the single market and the customs union, was defeated by 21, largely because his own conservative mps didn't get behind the plan. and in fact, only 33 of them voted for it. the other options, a confirmatory referendum got 280 votes. still not getting a majority in the house of commons. it has never got a majority when it has been put to the vote but it certainly is top of the pile again this evening, as it was in the first vote last week. 280 votes was more than any of the other three options got. and the revoking article 50, brought forward byjoanne cherry of the snp, was defeated heavily by 101 votes. so all four were rejected. we