tv Victoria Derbyshire BBC News April 2, 2019 10:00am-11:01am BST
hello, it's tuesday, it's ten o'clock, i'm victoria derbyshire. two years ago we revealed hundreds of women were unable to walk, work or have sex after having controversial vaginal mesh implants. as our result of our coverage, the mesh was suspended temprarily. now the nhs health watchdog says women should be offered them again, once certain conditions are met. this woman tried to take her own life five times because of the complications from her mesh — she says she's appallled by today's decision. also, ten days until we urge you to leave the eu. last night mps could not agree on a way forward. is no deal no more likely? here is the eu
chief negotiator speaking this morning. no deal was never our desired or intended scenario. it was never my desire to intended scenario. but the eu 27 is now prepared. it becomes,j today, more likely. —— it becomes, day after day. a marathon cabinet meeting in downing street, could it stop the dither and delay or risk no deal? chubby actors never get to play a romantic lead or had sex on screen. that is what james corden romantic lead or had sex on screen. that is whatjames corden thinks. is he right? hello, welcome to the programme. we're live until 11 this morning. meg matthews was one of the biggest flag fliers for cool britannia back in the 90s,
together with her then other half noel gallagher. she's now a campaignerfor better awareness of menopause — saying she had no idea what hit her when she went through it. we will talk to her before the end of the programme about all sorts of things. do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about — use the hashtag #victorialive. if you're emailing and are happy for us to contact you — and maybe want to take part in the programme — please include your phone number in your message. if you have had a vaginal mesh implants, how do you react to the news today? first annita has the news. the nhs regulator has ruled that vaginal mesh implants could be offered again to women in england, if changes are made to monitor results. the controversial treatment for incontinence and prolapse was banned last year, after hundreds of women were left unable to walk, work or have sex due to the implants. but the national institute for health and care excellence has said specialist surgeons in dedicated centres could resume the treatment once a national database has been set up to record operations.
the prime minister is hosting an extended cabinet meeting after parliament again failed to reach a majority on any alternative option for brexit. mps voted on four options last night, with proposals for a permanent eu customs union rejected by just three votes. the eu's chief brexit negoatiator michel barnier said this morning that the eu is prepared for a no—deal brexit. the no deal scenario has become more likely, but we can still hope to avoid it. our objective remains to ensure an orderly withdrawal, which will create the trust we need to build an ambitious and sustainable future partnership. parents in england who home educate their children could soon be forced to add their names to a new register. ministers hope the scheme, which has the backing of ofsted, would help councils to intervene when standards need improving.
the department for education estimates the number of home schooled children in england has more than doubled in five years to around 60,000. the nhs in england is to make a blood test more widely available to speed up the diagnosis of a potentially fatal condition affecting pregnant women. until now, pre—eclampsia has been difficult to detect because the symptoms, including high blood pressure and nausea , are common in most pregnancies. researchers at king's college london found their test cut the diagnosis time in half, and was more reliable. sir mickjagger is to undergo heart surgery later this week, according to reports. us website drudge report said sir mick will have an operation to repair a damaged heart valve, later this week. the rolling stones confirmed they would be postponing the north american leg of their current tour to allow their 75—year—old frontman to have medical treatment. victims of fraud in england and wales are not receiving the level of service they deserve,
according to a policing watchdog. the inspectorate of constabulary says the response to fraud is inconsistent and inefficient, leaving the public at high risk of scams. it says it was told by one officer that fraud is not considered a priority because it doesn't bang, bleed or shout. the national police coordinator says work is under way to address the problem. the former us vice president, joe biden, has denied claims made by a second woman that he behaved inappropriately towards her. amy lappos said mr biden had touched herface with both hands and rubbed noses with her a decade ago. another woman, lucy flores, said that he made herfeel uncomfortable by kissing the back of her head at a campaign event. mr biden, who is reportedly considering a 2020 presidential run, said he did not think that he'd ever acted inappropriately. the us supreme court has ruled that a convicted murderer on death row has no right to a painless death. the ruling clears the way for the execution of russell bucklew, who asked for gas rather than lethal
injection on the grounds of an unusual medical condition. the 50—year old argued the state's preferred method might cause him excessive pain. that's a summary of the main news this morning. back to you, victoria. good morning, welcome to the programme. the nhs health watchdog says women should be offered controversial vaginal mesh implants again — once certain conditions are met. two years ago ago this programme revealed hundreds of women have been left unable to walk, work or have sex after having the implants. since then, many more have come forward and partly because of our coverage — the use of mesh was banned temporarily. mesh is used to treat incontinence and prolapse — and the new nice guidelines for england say the suspension will stay in place until a national database has been set up. campaigners are furious — they say these guidelines shows lessons have not been learnt and a new generation of women are being put at risk.
here's some of our reporting on this issue since the start. it's estimated more than 170,000 women in england have had a vaginal mesh implant. the fabric can be attached to the wall of the vagina and to support organs and is used to manage incontinence or prolapse. but sometimes, it can cut into the tissue, causing debilitating pain. two years ago, we revealed more than 800 women were taking legal action against the makers of vaginal mesh implants and the nhs. many were unable to walk, work, or have sex. three months later, we found hernia mesh repairs were leaving thousands in chronic pain. as thousands spoke out about the devastating side effects of vaginal mesh, the health watchdog nice said health operations for organ prolapse should only be used for research. experts called it a back—door ban. just over a year ago, the government launched a review into vaginal mesh implants. chair baroness cumberlege said she was appalled by the seriousness and scale of the stories.
last summer, the government and the nhs paused the use of vaginal mesh. by september, the restrictions covered the whole of the uk. in october, nice drafted guidelines that said women should try a range of techniques before mesh is considered. nice's long—awaited guidelines for england have now been published. the national pause on the use of mesh hasn't been fully lifted yet, but the watchdog says it's appropriate to other implants, provided women are fully informed. campaigners say nothing's changed and future women have been failed. well, here now is our reporter anna collinson, who has been investigating complications linked to mesh repairs for this programme for two years now. anna, how significant are these new nice guidelines? this guidance is from nice, the nhs health watchdog, and they only cover england. while the nhs does not have to abide by what nice are calling for, they are expected to take it
into consideration. as we have heard a lot on this programme, vaginal mesh complications are known to affect around one in ten women. those difficulties can be walking, chronic pain, suicidal thoughts. nice says it is difficult to know the risks and benefits of mesh because there is limited long—term evidence, so that guidelines say women should be offered measured certain conditions are met, we will get into those in a second. campaigners call the new guidelines week, they say nothing has changed since 2003 and no lessons have been learned, and it is being called a huge blow for thousands of women whose lives have been ruined by nash. their one glimmer of hope is to hopefully protect women of the future. so the pores on using this particular mesh is in place for the time being, for how long and talkers to these conditions? use of mesh in the uk was halted last year, nice
says the suspension should stay in case until certain criteria are met. 0ne case until certain criteria are met. one suggestion is a national database reporting one suggestion is a national data base reporting and one suggestion is a national database reporting and monitoring every operation. what nice suggest backs up suggestions from an independent review released last year. the woman behind that review, that baroness, we have spoken to her about the guidelines and says now was not the time for mesh to end. —— for mesh pause to enter. we are talking about the database, special surgeons and specialist centres, nice say it is not the role of the guidelines to decide who will pay for that. the department of health and nhs england could not give us an a nswer and nhs england could not give us an answer either. the baroness's review is not out until the summer but these nice guidelines are out today.
along with these new guidelines, nice has also published some booklets to help patients make decisions about how best to treat prolapse and incontinence — tell us about that? there are three, they are calling on patient decision aids and as you can see there are two for prolapse and one for incontinence. nice say women should always try nonsurgical options first. if that does not work, they say these patient decision aids have the latest evidence on all surgical treatments, the benefits and the negatives. these have been supported by doctors, the department of health says it will help women make more informed choices, which nice say they want, but critics say it is pretty inappropriate pressure on women's, they're having to diagnose themselves and they should be encoded by their doctor or surgeon. finally confusion about why mesh is mentioned when there is a suspension? thank you, anna. we have many messages from you,
which i will read in a moment. let's speak to jackie cheetham. she says she has tried to kill herself on several occasions because of the complications caused by a mesh implant. linda bywater says living with mesh complications has made her depressed. also here is leading mesh removal surgeon, suzy elneil. chair of the all party parliamentary group on surgical mesh implants, labour mp 0wen smith. and founder of the anti—mesh campaing group, sling the mesh, kath sansom. thank you all for coming on the programme. i want to get a quick reaction from all of you to the fact that mesh looks like it will be offered again to patients in england once these conditions are met.|j offered again to patients in england once these conditions are met. i am appalled, i really am. i can believe they can listen to our pain and suffering and then still offer mesh to future women. suzy? we don't have the information, the data, it is
premature to come up with mesh being an option again. the government and nice are handling this desperately badly. if you months ago, government ministers said the effects of mesh on women were devastating, they advised some women to sue their doctors, yet nice seems now to be rolling back from that. kath? the guidelines are based on weak evidence which do not look at complications, only if the operation works. the support page has gone into meltdown this morning, women are devastated that they have paved the way to harm our daughters and granddaughters. linda? it is very depressing and difficult to understand how they can ignore the opinions of so many women that have been damaged by this. is that what it feels like, your devastating experiences being ignored?
completely, and i don't understand it. at the review with the baroness, nice state it is very clear that women have suffered as a result, yet they are still not listening to what we said and they had gone ahead and produce these guidelines. explained to the audience have you had suffered. i had the mesh putting into thousand six. rescue minna rhee incontinence, i realised there was a problem, i was getting pain in my groin. ——i problem, i was getting pain in my groin. —— i had the mesh put in in 2006, for stress incontinence. the pain got worse and worse and worse, eventually i kept going back in and out of hospital and in the end they said this is all in your head, see a psychiatrist. how did she respond? i try to convince and it was not, they took no notice of me. in the end i was so fed up and depressed i was
not able to be a proper mother to my small children at the time and i took an overdose. goodness me. i mean, you have tried to take your own life and number of times? yes. because the pain is too much? yes. i had a decentjob, we lost that, we lost our house, it very nearly cost my marriage, everything got on top of me and i was still not being listened to by the surgeons. so i thought, what is the point of this? i have gone from a fun, fit mum to be somebody lying around not able to doa be somebody lying around not able to do a thing for my children are natural. linda, how would you describe the impact on your life? my mesh was put in into thousand and eight, for several years nothing much happens, i was one of the ones that it became late—onset. it going
back, i understand what is happening to me. in 2016, suzy removed my mesh, it was adhered to my bowel, it was eroding through my vagina in three places and now i am left with lots of scar tissue, lots of pain and facing another operation to resection at mike powell. how do you feel about that? -- another operation to resection my bowel. i am devastated, it was a simple operation meant to fix the incontinence i was having and i have ended up with worse incontinence and more problems. can i ask you, kath, 0wen more problems. can i ask you, kath, owen and suzy, why you think nice have made this move?” owen and suzy, why you think nice have made this move? i think they are ignoring the overwhelming anecdotal evidence coming from
women's experience and hiding behind the relatively few clinical studies done into this, which is allowing them to say they do not think the evidence tells us whether there are long—term complications. evidence tells us whether there are long-term complications. is that not fair? nice looks at the evidence? but the government conducted its own study as a result of the pressure that kath in particular and others have put on them, showing evidence of people suffering harm from mesh, especially after five to seven yea rs. especially after five to seven years. the australian government has officially apologised to women for the harm done to them, ministers in our country have effectively apologised, and when they appointed apologised, and when they appointed a tory peer to look at this she looked at it for about two months and said the evidence was so overwhelming she recommended an immediate ban, which the government accepted. so for nice to effectively
say we should carry on regardless, in my opinion, flies in the face of the evidence. the blood they say it is the most studied operation in the world, that is as may be, but in the science they are not looking at the complications of chronic pain, loss of sex life, constant urinary tract infections which destroy notjust which destroy not just the woman's life, but it just which destroy not just the woman's life, but itjust restrict —— that it destroys the relationship for her partner and for her children. of course he will not know the long—term complications. they have not dented for 20 years, why should they put the mesh inches to get evidence. provides one viewer says i was given it as a tdt sling, i was 28 and within two years i wanted to die. i had a child of five, i could not walk without exclusionary pain, —— without excruciating pain, i lost
a baby through miscarriage. i have had the mesh remove but i suffered nerve pain from the damage caused andi nerve pain from the damage caused and i am not even a worst—case scenario. thousands of women and men suffer from the use of surgical mesh, it has to be banned. karina says i am devastated to learn mesh is allowed to be used again. my life has been really inspired for the last 1a years and i am not alone, it is scandalous the decision has been taken. a malfunctioning car would have been taken out of circulation. a mesh which destroys lives and in some cases can kill is allowed. yvonne says i am in agony with mesh poking through my vaginal wall and pressing on my urethra wall, causing all sorts of problems over the whole of my body. suzy, why have nice taken this decision?” think they put some very restrictive reasons why they included some data and not other data, they were going
for perfect studies, randomised controlled studies with five year follow—up, and it medicine lots of the work that makes changes, you need to look at data, particularly patient information, doing lots of retrospective reviews. they may not be scientifically perfect... is that theyjob? be scientifically perfect... is that they job? no. they are working on what is there already.” they job? no. they are working on what is there already. i remember when we did that, i have sat with nice, we looked at various forms of data to try to get a true picture of the situation. are you saying it is out there? there is data not as perfect as the data used in their guidance. in the end we had to do a retrospective audit of the 20 years of mesh implantation in the uk. whose job is that? of mesh implantation in the uk. whosejob is that? look of mesh implantation in the uk. whose job is that? look out the government, we need support and guidance from them. the big issue will be where to be get the funding
from. that brings me onto the database issue, from. that brings me onto the data base issue, whose job from. that brings me onto the database issue, whosejob is to for that? the government, via the nhs. this is a massive medical scandal, these devices were mis—sold and oversold by companies to the medical profession as a quick, easy fix, they were implanted into thousands and thousands of women who did not need it, many too young to undergo this surgery for relatively minor problems and we have a wide scale all over the world global crisis as all over the world global crisis as a result. nice are burying their head in the sand and i think they have been got at by the medical profession. that is a very strong allegation. i think the royal coueges allegation. i think the royal colleges and clinicians are determined to defend it, not least because there will be liabilities
associated with it being proven it was mis—sold. associated with it being proven it was mis-sold. i do not know which rail colleges you are talking about, but i have a statement from the royal of obstetricians and gynaecologists and the british society of euro gynaecology who say we welcome nice's final guidance on the management of stress urinary incontinence and pelvic organ prolapse recommending the full range of nonsurgical option should be offered to women before any surgical procedures and be fully endorsed the patient decision aids published by nice. you are shaking your head.” have been campaigning for four years and even i don't understand this patient decision eight. they are so complicated that no woman should come into a meeting with a surgeon and be faced with all this information that they do not understand and admit that they do not know the long—term risks. it is not know the long—term risks. it is not fully informed consent if you do that to a woman. from patient
experience, you meet your surgeon and they tell you that physio does not work, you will be rushed through to the mesh surgery. nothing has changed and it is opening the door way for mohammed. it is super expensive for the nhs to fix, we are costing a fortune in unplanned health care you playstation costs. covers the department of health says we know that for some people mesh has had wanted in serious consequences. this decision eight will help women make more informed decisions about their treatment. mesh will still be a treatment for some women who understand the risks, following discussions with their co nsulta nts. following discussions with their consultants. i have come back to the spot many times, for the majority of women, mesh works, suzy? 0blakfora majority of women that we are aware of currently, but i come back to the point that we do not know if that is
truly the situation. we have not done the cheques. i could wheel a woman into suzy's consulting room, she has lost her six life and her job, it worked, she is continent. —— she has lost her sex life. she is continent for her life is ruined. the another dealer says i have persistent utis and had developed other autoimmune problems.” persistent utis and had developed other autoimmune problems. i am expected to stay permanently on antibiotics until i see a consultant. another fever says i host meetings in newcastle with 70 plus mesh injured women, some of whose lives have been destroyed. 0ne woman is 39, has children, is inoperable. she is meant to sit quietly?! it is immoral that they campaign russian roulette with
lives. linda, what would you like to see happen next? they should carry out the survey, the mesh is a ticking time bomb inside some women. sun it happened straightaway, others, ed slater, even further down the line. it is written lives and their mantra that the benefits outweigh the risks does not work with me. what would you like to see happen, jackie? ultimately a ban in mesh surgery, but they had to carry out... find out who the women are who have had mesh and bring them in to find out what mesh has or has not done to them. could the baroness comeback a review in the summer and recommend a full, permanent ban? yes. the timing is bizarre, we have
been pressing nice to get on with this and they have prevaricated and said they could not do it for years. the baroness is waiting to produce a final report and other things in the nice guideline are truly bizarre. previously they said mesh should not be used for pelvic organ prolapse other than be used for pelvic organ prolapse otherthan in be used for pelvic organ prolapse other than in research, they have now reversed that with no new evidence that i can see tojustify that statement. it seems to be that nice and the doctors are pushing back against the evidence and defending their position, which is not good enough. they should not be defensive about this, they should acknowledge weather has been widespread hurt. thank you all very much. we will continue to report on this. and thank you to lender. if you were hoping for answers and brexit, you're out of luck. despite last night being billed as the
moment ministers might compromise, mps moment ministers might compromise, m ps voted moment ministers might compromise, mps voted against any option for any alternative version of brexit. the one that proposes to edge, missed out on a majority by three votes, was a proposalfor a closer trading relationship with the eu. shortly after results, health secretary matthew hancock tweeted, now, please, can we alljust vote matthew hancock tweeted, now, please, can we all just vote for the deal and deliver brexit? but as of last friday, the fact remains that theresa may's deal does not have the numbers to get it to parliament. we are still in limbo, in paralysis. labour leaderjeremy corbyn says he hopes mps will get another chance to agree on something. if it is good enough for the prime minister to have three chances at her deal, then i suggest that possibly the house should have a chance to consider again the options we had before us today in a debate on wednesday.
also clear in the commons was the strain it is putting uncertainties. former minister nick boles, whose own idea of a soft brexit was rejected, resigned as a conservative and p. i had failed, chiefly because my party refuses to compromise. i regret, therefore, to announce that ican no regret, therefore, to announce that i can no longer sit for this party. 0h, nick! don't go! come on! applause. then there were the seminaked climate change protesters interrupting the brexit debate, spending about 20 minutes —— 20 minutes standing in the house with a second facing the chamber. —— with
their bums facing the chamber. although others were clearly more distracted than others. there is the former labour leader, ed miliband! this morning the prime minister is holding a meeting of her cabinet to discuss a route forward. the eu's main brexit negotiator has this morning said a no—deal scenario has become more likely. 0h, oh, sorry, ithought oh, sorry, i thought we were playing a clip of him, but we did that earlier! let's hear from a group of mps. first hugh merriman, conservative mp. he was the one you cld hear pleading with colleague nick boles who dramaticaly announced he was leaving the conserative party, pleading with him to stay and conservative mp ed vaizey. we've also got labour mp chi 0nwurah. she was one of many who voted for last night's common market option. and i have missed out tom brake, the lib dems. good morning. we will hear from pauline latham in a moment but first of all, hugh merryman, you
we re first of all, hugh merryman, you were not able to stop your colleague from effectively leaving the party. that was quite an emotional moment actually, wasn't it? not really very dramatic, i wasn't expecting it at all. his voice was strained and he said he could no longer sit with us. i don't think you always make your best decisions in that chamber so i was just trying to get him to calm down and not leave because it is a great colleague. he is an original thinker. he's done some great things in housing and that's the trouble, we are so obsessed with the eu question we forget the radical policies we can deliver and we need people like nick to deliver them. you failed to stop him leaving the party so did parliament fade as a whole last night? yes, i think parliament has failed all the way along this process. i voted for the deal three times, for no deal twice and i've lost, so i'm a serial loser. parliament is failed to reach a majority for anything at all which is why i have reluctantly come to the view will have to ask the people to push this over the line and i
will be campaigning for the deal if the people get the chance to vote for it. absolute admission of failure and i'm really disappointed but we can't carry on like this. when you say that, tom brake from the lib dems, you shook your head in disagreement. how have you not failed? the government have been at this for 1013 days precisely. parliament has had two days to try to identify a solution. we came very close with a customs union proposal andindeed close with a customs union proposal and indeed the confirmatory peoples vote, both very close. you didn't vote, both very close. you didn't vote for it. last night, you voted against the two softer brexit options. so what has happened to your spirit of compromise? it's very clear, we've always said that if the prime minister was willing to link her deal to a peoples vote, if ken clarke... so everyone else has to compromise but not you? you're sticking to your preferred option.
0ur preferred option is not to help the government to live out their withdrawal agreement. so we are compromising, saying, 0k, withdrawal agreement. so we are compromising, saying, ok, the pi minister believes that's the solution for that country, let's put it toa solution for that country, let's put it to a public vote and if that's what the public ones, that is what... if they don't... what the public ones, that is what... if they don't. .. that's a compromise. haven't you blown the chance for softer brexit in the uk and we could end up with a no deal? no, because this is day two. parliament had two days of this. we have wednesday to debate this further where the possibility of a long extension will be sought, where we may try on thursday to secure that in law, so parliament had not given up. we came incredibly close, just three votes in it. when the prime minister still, after 1000 days... i'm sorry i find it odd you keep saying we came incredibly close, just three votes, and that was the option you voted against. you are claiming some kind of credit of only being lost by three votes. the peoples vote was 12 votes
behind. i'm talking about the option where you keep saying we came incredibly close as though you had anything to do with that. you voted against it. i did and that's because the customs union which would put the customs union which would put the uk on the same level as...” understand that so stop saying we came incredibly close. it demonstrates that if you put those two things together, put forward the link the people who support the customs union with the people are willing to back a peoples vote, i think you will get a majority and then people i hope will be satisfied with that and at least one deal can come forward and it can be put to a public vote. 0k, ed vaizey, ithink you voted for everything last night. what do you think about people like tom and others in your own party and across the house, who voted for only their preferred option last night? that's part of the reason it is difficult for parliament to reach a conclusion because everyone has their own plough they want to follow
and toa their own plough they want to follow and to a certain extent i haven't ever blamed the opposition. the government is in the position to deliver brexit and it's theirjob to get it through an opposition suppose, that's what they do, but if it wasn't for the crisis of no deal, so it wasn't for the crisis of no deal, so many mps in my party seem to want to go behind parliament maggie was back to deliver, i would understand his position, he is in opposition, is entitled to oppose, but this is a real crisis now, ten days from falling off a cliff and i'm afraid at this point people have to swallow their pride and compromise. i don't think we favour a second referendum. i would hate to see that because i wa nt i would hate to see that because i want to get something over the line with stops no deal and shows parliament has the majority to deliver something which stops no deal. if that doesn't happen and mrs may brings her deal back again and maybe that doesn't get a majority for a fourth time, you in the house, people like yourselves on this
programme right keep telling the public we won't let no deal happen. what do you have to do in practical terms to make sure that doesn't happen? i don't know is the honest answer. i have followed 0liver letwin and people like nick boles, who i was really sad to see leave the tories yesterday, who have done an amazing job. let's see if tom knows. the answer is we have got tomorrow for the purpose of the debate which could be used and i hope will be used to ensure that on thursday in one day, the yvette cooper way forward, parliament would pass a law that would require the government to seek an extension thereby ruling government to seek an extension there by ruling out government to seek an extension thereby ruling out no deal. can i quickly come back, victoria? what i was going to say was 0liver letwin and nick boles have been dealing with the government and doing their job for them. it is for the cabinet, who are meeting for five hours
today, to actually be brave and for the prime minister to say, if we have to stop no deal, if we have to revoke or extend article 50 to stop the deal, that is what i will do as the deal, that is what i will do as the leader of this government. she hasn't so far. do you have any faith she might do that today? it's a very good question and i'm praying. the reality is no deal is the default option on statute so therefore if something is not reached in terms of another decision, that'll be the case but as i have been saying to my constituents, who say deal, no deal, we lost by macro—42 weeks ago and lost by 200. parliament will not allow no deal to go through. they will find some way of stopping it and that's why we need to look beyond no deal because i voted for it but it's not going to happen. 0k, words like we will find some way of stopping it don't necessarily reassure vote rs stopping it don't necessarily reassure voters who stopping it don't necessarily reassure voters who don't want to leave no deal but anyway. thank you very much for talking to us. your lead but leave the voters have
thrown them under the bus now because your boss tried to get you to vote for the norway option, which would have meant the uk wouldn't have had control of its own immigration policy. going against labours manifesto promise to end free movement. victoria, like the vast majority of mps, labour mps, i voted for each of the two options on the table last night, customs union and common market 2.0. they both have disadvantages. the common market 2.0 certainly has disadvantages, some of which we could negotiate, but the fact is people are tired of nothing being voted for. i understand that. tory mps did not vote for anything. from a labour point of view, but is a spectacular u—turn and ijust want you to acknowledge that. what we are looking to do is theresa may has had two and half years of and now doing
this in open and yes, we are potentially making compromises but the additionalfact is potentially making compromises but the additional fact is a confirmatory vote would take it back to the people the people because people are so tired of the absence of any compromise by theresa may... what do you say to your labour voters, the ones who voted to leave the eu, who partly did it so we could control our own immigration?” say if labour had won the 2017 general election we won't have left on friday with a customs union and in an orderly manner. but we couldn't. we didn't because of the conservative party and particular theresa may market was attitude to this which has been so high—handed and secretive. i am really sorry but right now we do need to compromise and then have a confirmatory vote so we can move forward because otherwise we are going to be doing this, this will be the state of parliament for the next ten years and we really can't. we have too
many challenges in our country to accept that so that's what i say. hugh merryman, the parliamentary aide to philip hammond, in that cabinet meeting right now. might he be prepared to move to a confirmatory referendum ?” be prepared to move to a confirmatory referendum? i don't know. so far, it's close but i'm not a spokesperson. i'm here for me. you must have had this conversation is. we talk all the time but he can speakfor we talk all the time but he can speak for himself. when the time is right i'm sure he will do so. i've been quite a of my position and we talk about everybody else needs to compromise. i've had a massive compromise. i've had a massive compromise because i'd gone from saying absent in no way to a second vote, absolutely no way to a second vote, absolutely no way to a second vote, absolutely no way, we made a decision, i voted for the deal because i said i no deal because that was my fullback and now i'm faced with a position where i'm having to change my position, i have gone back on myself, ifeel terrible about it, but i feel we've got to do that because otherwise we will be here for the next five years, constituents are worried and
concerned, so all of us have to look at ourselves and say at times like this, is not good enough to set and not voting for this because i don't like it. there are consequences when you vote against something or you don't vote for something. the alternative may come through so i wa nt alternative may come through so i want more of my colleagues who have voted for the deal unsupported to recognise the only way to get the deal through is by asking the people to push it over the line. abject failure of parliament, in my view, but we are where we are and it's time for a solution. theresa may can stop this right now by asking her mps stop this right now by asking her mp5 on her payroll to vote in degree for a customs union for a confirmatory vote and we would be on our way to moving forward and getting the country brought together. it is up to her. many of us are together. it is up to her. many of us are opposed to the customs union and don't think it delivers. if we are optimistic about our future outside the eu, we can't execute trade deals we don't know what it would cost us, the single market, how long it would take, but the idea of going back to the people, the
prime minister michael steele, agreed to the eu so we can put it in place, or revoke if that people choose to do, legally those happen but to come up with another option, means we got to negotiated. we are asking people to vote on something we don't know we can deliver. isn't it bizarre you are now backing a second referendum, confirmatory referendum, when you haven't delivered on the results of the first one? that's exactly why we have to do that because we said we will leave on a deal, we had the deal, i voted for it, and we feel co mforta ble deal, i voted for it, and we feel comfortable i voted for us to leave the eu and i voted for no deal for us the eu and i voted for no deal for us to leave the eu but it's not happen, so therefore, its not my issue. my issue with people who have been voting against things so i can sleep at night. this illustrates the twists and turns it up with brexit because he one day for completely different reasons have ended up in exactly the same place. you didn't support a peoples vote now you do. i don't support the prime minister deal but now i'm willing to put it in front of the people subject to a peoples vote so we've all come to
the same conclusion. for different reasons. ed vaizey, final thought from you. that sounds attractive but mps from you. that sounds attractive but mp5 get into the weeds on things like the customs union. i do support the deal and they beat reason may well emerge this afternoon to say she will push article 50 legislate for a referendum on her dealer. she has said she would never do that. the trouble is she could lose that referendum and we would be back to square one. it would be great. to a certain extent, and it's unfair of me perhaps to say, the focus is now on the opposition. they can get behind that withdrawal agreement... add, that is so... i'm laughing at the idea of that. your own government, you've had three years. your own government, they've had three years of this, and the withdrawal agreement is the least popular option across the country.” love it. i know you do but it does
not have support so please compromise, theresa may to say let's get a deal become agree with, put it to the country, and move forward. get a deal become agree with, put it to the country, and move forwardm is good to see some laughter, but it's not a laughing matter, is it? i had a quick chat with other conservative mp. earlier i spoke to conservative mp pauline latham. she voted against all of last night's options, and is a reluctant supporter of theresa may's deal. i asked her what she thought would happen now. well i'm hoping she's not going to go back for a much longer extension because that's going to mean we've got to have european candidates which i don't think anybody wants to do. also we'll have to pay the eu much
more money and i don't think the british people want that either. so i think she's going to have to come to terms with leaving without a deal, although i would much have preferred to have had a deal. we've never had an option of a proper deal. but parliament won't let no deal happen. well, if we get to next friday, a week on friday, they can't stop it. they'd have to put down legislation beforehand, won't they? yes but it has to have a resolution to go through both houses of parliament and that's a big ask to get that through in such a short period of time. if not impossible, but it's a big ask. what you think about the prospect of no deal? i'd much rather have a deal, but as the eu haven't really negotiated and given us anything that we want, then i think we may have to go down that route. the uk trade policy observatory says nearly 3,000 derbyjobs, some in your constituency, would be lost in a no—deal brexit. well, i'm not sure. we've had all sorts of dire predictions. we don't know, but i don't think we'll have huge numbers of job losses. don't think we'll have huge numbers but there would be some and that would be a price worth paying? i don't really want anyjob losses, at all, but i don't see how we can
get out of this brexit mess without leaving without a deal. i don't see there's any other way and as for a general election, that would be a disaster for all parties actually, notjust for the conservative party, but labour would have a pretty bad result as well. would you be prepared to see job losses at a price worth paying to have brexit? certainly not, no deal is not to be ruled out. it's very clear from the preparation of the government are making for no deal that it would be catastrophic to the uk. i think it would be suicidal. there's also a cost to democracy, so there is economic risk but there is also the absolute democratic risk, but will be on the table and we will all reap what it sews if we don't deliver this result at all, so people talk about the economy, i agree with that. what worries me in terms of no deal hugely is what will
happen to democracy if they do not deliver what the public voted for in terms of leaving the eu. we should beware of that at our peril. it's also important to stress no deal has become this sort of mantra that what the public voted for in 2016, if you look at what the leave campaigners, the leading lights like boris johnson and michael gove said, they all said we would leave for the deal. people like david davis of the deal. people like david davis of the deal would be done the next day. a lot of people voted leave because they assumed that we would be able to get out of the political structures of the eu but benefit from our economic targets and that what people want. 0k, from our economic targets and that what people want. ok, i'm going to pause and there but we will come back to that conversation. thank you so much, everybody, for your time. thank you. james corden says chubby actors in films and on tv never get to play a romantic lead, and never have sex. talking on david tenant's podcast, he talked about how his experiences spurred him on to write gavin
and stacey, as he saw his actor mates getting offered lead roles that he wasn't. if you are chubby or fact or big, you never really fall in love. you never have sex. certainly no one finds you attractive. you will be good friends with people who are attractive and you will often be a really great solid sense of comfort to them and perhaps you will chip in with the odd joke every now and again, and as you get older you will probably be a judge in something or be dropping off a television to a handsome person in a sitcom. and that's really how it can feel. 0ur entertainment reporter will chalk joins us now. what is the context? what were they discussing? he was asked about why he wrote govern in stacey, the programme he made his name from. and he said he was in the history boys, popular play, a young actor with lots of young actors in that play and they were getting off at all of these big leading rail parts and he
kept getting offered roles like the cornershop work and he thinks it's because of his size and how big he was. “— because of his size and how big he was. —— mike gavin and stacey. he said he rode gavin and stacey because he wanted to buck that convention. plenty of people will have watched gavin and stacey but he was a big lad in one of the roles as was a big lad in one of the roles as was ruth jones, was a big lad in one of the roles as was ruthjones, who was vanessa jenkins. those with rosie was about. there is an irony that he is not the romantic lead in gavin and stacey. he did have a relationship and have sex. and they had a baby. yes, he did buck that trend in that sense, yes. has he talked about this before? yes, in 2016 he talked to rolling stone about the same thing how larger actors if they have sex on screen it's always done in a cookie way like a comedic way, rather than in a romantic way. what has the reaction been to this? well,
a lot of people are pointing out that if you look back at films over the years, sometimes this isn't the case, people like rebel wilson, queen latifah, seth rogen, they've all played romantic leads in romantic comedies, before gavin and stacey was a thing and definitely before james gordon made these comments. 0k, thank you very much and nice to see you. meg matthews is one of the brands of rule britannia. with then husband noel gallagher. but the former music pr is now campaigning for better awareness around the menopause. she said when the menopause first started for her she had no idea what had hit her. she has since set up a website aiming to provide information and support for women going through the menopause. lets talk to her right now. how are you? lets talk to her right now. how are you ? thanks lets talk to her right now. how are you? thanks for coming on the programme. thank you for having me. what is the menopause? it is a
period when your periods stop. i would like to say there is a perimenopausal, menopausaland postmenopausal. postmenopausal is when you haven't had a period for exactly 12 months. menopause is when you have irregular periods and perimenopausal can start in your 30s for some women, one in thousand in your 40s, so that's when your hormones are all over the place, you're not feeling quite right, you have wobbly days, you feel depressed, just out of sorts. that's why i think people do not know because for me, the menopause was just the menopause. a hot flash and no periods. i had no knowledge of perimenopausal, menopause, postmenopausal. what are you experiencing? what symptoms of menopause where you experiencing?- symptoms were really bad anxiety, couldn't leave the house. really?
mine where more mental symptoms. more about my mental state of mind. people say i'm having a middle—aged crisis, that's what it felt like. nothing about the menopause, i haven't had a hot flush, 0k. nothing about the menopause, i haven't had a hot flush, ok. i had the mirena coil, i didn't know i was having periods. you spot when you have a coil so you don't know full it's only when my partner pointed out to me, you haven't had a period for six months. i was like, really? all the other symptoms i was going through, there are 3a of them and i have to say i probably had 2a of them. there was a lot of those so that's why i want women to go to my website and if you're feeling out of sorts and something is not quite right, it's probably down to your hormones. lack of oestrogen makes you go crazy. you don't sleep properly. dry mouth syndrome. foggy brain. aching joints. your breasts
get bigger. you feel nauseous. you get bigger. you feel nauseous. you get terrible migraines. everything you don't want to have you can have. you were actually in an aa meeting because you are a recovering alcoholic and some come up to and saidi alcoholic and some come up to and said i think you're going to the menopause. yes, i was in a meeting and that's why ijust love them so much because i shared in this meeting how you are feeling that day, and i just meeting how you are feeling that day, and ijust said everything how i was feeling that day and when i left this lovely lady stopped me and shejust said you left this lovely lady stopped me and she just said you know what, i think you have start of the menopause and i was like, really? everything you shared, anxious, anxiety, not sleeping, putting on weight, all these things... this was a fellow recovery? yes, and i wasjust letting out how my day was, so this
lady helped me and she said go and get tested. so i did and i went to the nhs. and then... another thing she told me, there is clinics. 27 in the uk. a few in london. nhs? really? i've never heard of them. that's why i'm telling you. this lady in my meeting who pointed this out to me, and i went to my gp and i saidi out to me, and i went to my gp and i said i would like to go to the menopause clinic and they said, oh... you have to refer me. there you go. you have been talking about it for about a year. do you notice that women are talking about the menopause more or is there still a stigma? there is still a stigma. we have got a long way to go. i know a
lot of women because they message me all the time, this shows you within all the time, this shows you within a year we have had nearly 2 million hits on my website. all in all, 7 million, and it is all women crying out for help. can i ask you about some other things? of course. thank you. what do you think about the many, you. what do you think about the any you. what do you think about the many, many young women and i'm talking late teens and early 20s and i've interviewed some in our programme, who are going for cosmetic procedures, you've had a number over the years, you got rid of everything. everything is gone, yes. these are 18 and having botox, boobjobs, bum yes. these are 18 and having botox, boob jobs, bum lifts, yes. these are 18 and having botox, boobjobs, bum lifts, having eyelid surgery. what do you think? disgusting. they are all morphing into one. i can't tell one difference between one face and another anti—facial recognition has gone and also why do they all want
to look the same? i can't get my head around that. maybe it is the pressure of instagram. you are on it and so was your daughter. what about the pressure on her? no, she is the scruffiest tiger there is. i'm a lwa ys scruffiest tiger there is. i'm always telling her to brush her hair. she does not want to look like that so where is the pressure coming from? if that one family beginning with k, you know, i think i have a lot to do with it. i think it's following a trend. i was a punk, a skinhead, probably to my parents i was doing exactly the same, i shaved my head off and had a purple mohican. but you went down the surgery route and the procedural route, so why? a 20—year—old could say you are a hypocrite.” route, so why? a 20—year—old could say you are a hypocrite. i did my boobs when i was 30 and i took them out when i was 52. but back then,
when i had them back then, not many people had them done then either. and also, it was quite expensive. and also, it was quite expensive. and now people can get it on credit. so you put £200 down and you pay it off monthly. a lot of these plastic surgery groups are offering it so anyone at 19 can go and get credit. you know, when i had it done, you had to pay a large amount upfront but now you pay £200 and you pay it off monthly. that is why these girls are getting boobjobs. don't do it. the fda have just said are getting boobjobs. don't do it. the fda havejust said it is not safe. and it causes cancer. it is around your lymph nodes, all over the news. i think it depends what implant you go for. yes, you are right. no, that's fine. a brexit.
political stalemate. what do you think? stalemate is all it is. i don't understand it. i have given up. i'm baffled. do we stop? i don't know why we left in the beginning. no, a complete mess. just leave them to it. do you think they are doing their best, those politicians? i've had enough. i just their best, those politicians? i've had enough. ijust have to say this, i wish the prime minister in new zealand, after the shooting there, this woman came out and was just amazing and strong and eloquent. i look at theresa may and you look at these two women against each other, all of a sudden, she stopped every gun into days. magazines off the shelves. police officers, done. i was just watching her and then i was watching theresa may and i was just like, it's a different kettle of fish. did you vote in the referendum? no. if you had done,
what would it have been?” referendum? no. if you had done, what would it have been? i don't know. i'm not saying. laughter all right, thank you so much. meg matthews. she's got that website if you want to find out more about the menopause. thank you. thank you for all of your messages from those of you affected by a vagina mesh implants. if you want advice, go to the beeb is line website. have a good day. lots of showers ignore northern western areas of the uk. you can see the white speckled nature of those showers, wintry, but further east, this area of rain moving its way eastwards. 0ver this area of rain moving its way eastwards. over the next few hours
it will push its way into east anglia and the south—east of england and behind that, as the rain clears away, they will be sunny spells but those showers continuing to feed in on that rather brisk and north—westerly wind. it will feel colder, maximum temperature is only 7-9. colder, maximum temperature is only 7—9. tonight, that area rain will clear away. there will still be some showers tonight particularly across eastern scotland, northern england and may be more persistent rain and some whole snow moving its way in. elsewhere, some clear skies, a touch of frost first thing tomorrow morning. but there will also be rain and hells no continuing across scotland, northern england, perhaps the north of wales too. elsewhere, sunny spells and more wintry showers. buy bye for now.
you're watching bbc newsroom live. it's11am and these are the main stories this morning: theresa may begins five hours of cabinet talks to decide the government's next move in the brexit process. the nose— mac the nose—mac have it. today's marathon meeting comes after mps again failed to agree on an alternative to theresa may's withdrawal deal the prime minister's deal is actually the best one on the table. the problem with all of the other options that were rejected last night is that none of them is as good for the united kingdom. the eu's chief brexit negotiator says a no—deal is now more likely but can still be avoided.