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tv   Victoria Derbyshire  BBC News  April 5, 2019 10:00am-11:01am BST

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we can speak now to martha kirby, who's part of the child safety 0nline team at the nspcc and baroness who's the founder of 5 rights, an organisation that campaigns for better child online safety. and hello, it's friday, it's 103m, also happens to be a film director who directed bridgetjones‘ diary, i'm joanna gosling. among other things. she is also a crossbench member welcome to the programme. this of the house of lords and sits on the communications programme has exclusively learned the video sharing app tiktok is committee. being investigated by the welcome to both of you. i'm glad you information commissioner. it comes asa didn't have to have a really late information commissioner. it comes as a bbc investigation found its failing to ban people from using the night in the lords last night. you thought you might be there until the app after they have sent sexual or early hours of the morning? quite a threatening messages to children. lot of filibustering going on from and then, they were like, people who didn't want us to look at "do not ignore me. "i know who you are..." the bell sent from the commons that but swearing — "i know who you are i think it was overwhelming, the and i'll come and get you." feeling in the house, that we would so, obviously, like, get to it and indeed we did get to threatening a 10—year—old with them sort of messages. it. business done in the lords on within the last hour it has emerged theresa may has written to the that at least. let's get down to president of the european council asking for an extension to the what you are here to talk about. the brexit process until the 30th of guardian has an exclusive today on what will be happening next week, in june. that means we could have to term of the government's plans in ta ke june. that means we could have to take part in european elections. dealing with social media companies,
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roma, gypsy and talking about holding bosses traveller communities "comprehensively failed". personally liable for harmful content which is distributed on when it comes to everything from their platforms. a new independent health and education to hate crime, regulator likely to be paid for by thatis health and education to hate crime, that is according to a committee of mps. we will talk to media companies, in the form of a levy. what is your reaction, both of ivy manning, who is you, to that, first of all, martha? a romany gypsy and mum of two, about the discimination she's faced. we haven't seen the full white paper and they are up to wembley. yet but we are very encouraged by what has been published today and we raheem sterling invites think it is very important that some 500 pupils to wembley. to watch his team plasma fa cup of the things that we've been calling for in our campaign, for semifinal match against brighton tomorrow. some of those kids are in instance, transparency and proper accountability for people in charge the studio, after they travelled of social media companies are put to manchester to meet the england forward yesterday. through in this white paper. do you think it will make the difference you are looking for, beeban kidron? we do welcome the white paper but i think the big question is where and when is the bill coming? actually, good morning. we're live until 11 this morning. the time for self—regulation is over. we don't want any more codes today, we're also talking about the gender pay gap. by midnight last night, of conduct. these guys have proved all big companies had to publish their figures for how again and again unable to give kids
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much they pay men, the sort of environment they want. i compared to women. think we have to sort of roll back a bit and say, we haven't yet got on it's not about whether they're paid the record that a child is a child equally for the same work but rather whether there are more men in a company earning higher salaries than women. online, just like it is off—line, analysis of the figures shows the gap has widened in favour of men and that all regulation and all at nearly half of the uk's biggest employers over the past year. rules of engagement have to observe is the company where you work that fact, have to recognise that dominated by men in the topjobs? anyone under the age of 18 needs to if you're a woman, have you struggled to climb the ladder and get a job that pays more? have special arrangements. they don't need to be treated just like or do you want to work underage adults, which is the norm. full time but can't? let us know your thoughts and this is something i know you feel experiences on that and everything passionately about. you turned away else we are talking about on the programme today. from the film industry to focus on campaigning for this. what is it use the #victorialive. that made you see this as such an if you're emailing and are happy for us to contact you — important area to deal with?” and maybe want to take part in the programme, that made you see this as such an please include your phone important area to deal with? i had this moment of revelation when the number in your message. if you text, you'll be tech guys kept saying to me, all charged at the standard users will be treated equally. it network rate. first, annita has the news. just occurred to me that that was a category error, because if you treat thank you, good morning. theresa may has written to the european council all users equally, you de facto president, donald tusk, requesting
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treat a child as if they were an an extension to brexit until the end adult. the thing is, we are ofjune. mrs may said the uk would colluding with tech, really, by sort make preparations to take part in european elections on the 23rd of of accepting that this sort of data may but wanted the ability to leave before then if parliament ratified a for free services... it's an deal was that it comes as a senior appalling deal for children and it's eu source says donald tusk wants to an appalling deal for parents. offer the uk a 12 month brexit explain that data for free. we go on extension with the option to leave sooner. the boss of the sites and don't realise what is boeing has admitted for the first being accessed. we tick the box and time that a failure in the say, ok, you can have everything a i rcraft‘s time that a failure in the aircraft's anti—stall system was a about me, know everything about me, factor in the crash of two of its you can survey all i do and all that max eight planes. the chief executive made the statement, i think. that in exchange for a free promising to fix the fault after a preliminary report into the service that might tantalise you. ethiopian airlines crash found the the problem about that is that pilots repeatedly followed actually, you are allowing the tech procedures recommended by boeing before the crash. a woman who industry to parent your children, killed her husband and a hammer allowing the tech industry to make attack after saying she suffered suggestions on allowing the culture decades of abuse has pleaded guilty of popularity and giving up your to manslaughter but not guilty to information publicly and privately murder. sally challen was appearing at the old bailey on her first for commercial purposes. so, all the suggestions they are making, whether it isa
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appearance since her conviction was suggestions they are making, whether it is a suggestion you look at more quashed by the court of appeal. self— harm it is a suggestion you look at more self—harm or a it is a suggestion you look at more self— harm or a suggestion it is a suggestion you look at more fewer than half of the uk's self—harm or a suggestion you make a video of yourself that is public, biggest employers had succeeded in narrowing their gender pay gap, all those suggestions have a commercial imperative, not a duty of analysis by the bbc has found. care. and not a parental analysis of 45% of firms, the pay interaction, and actually, not respecting the other rules and increase for men. firms had until midnight to file pay data or face arrangements, privileges and protections, we make for children elsewhere. that is one important legal action. danny rose says the aspect of it and the other aspects, in terms of other users getting to punishment handed out to clubs whose fa ns punishment handed out to clubs whose fans are guilty of racism makes the kids on these sites, where they are gamea fans are guilty of racism makes the game a farce. he was a victim of racist chanting during england's a magnet often for someone who wants 2020 win over montenegro last month to access kids inappropriately, and has told the bbc he can't wait because tiktok, for instance, has a to leave football because of this. large number of children using it. when you hear that tiktok is not at the minute, how i've programmed myself now, i just think that i've got five suspending the accounts of people or six more years left in football who are directly accessing kids and sending them inappropriate stuff, and i just can't wait to see the back of it. what do you think? unfortunately, danny rose. and, we were talking it's not that surprising that the nspcc that these things are about the bafta games awards on the occurring. that is why we have been show yesterday. god of war has won
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campaigning so hard. unfortunately, five titles including best game. the it's just, it's part action adventure also got best campaigning so hard. unfortunately, it'sjust, it's part of campaigning so hard. unfortunately, it's just, it's part of the campaigning so hard. unfortunately, it'sjust, it's part of the problem, that these sites don't follow their own rules online. that is why we think it is so important that there is this kind of regulation and sites performer. fortnight, released in do have a duty of care towards children, because that is what will 2017, got best evolving game. the force industry to change their awards celebrate the best in mainstream and indie video gaming. practices. we heard in our report there is a review in the tech that is a summary of our main story companies that children, parents this morning. need to protect their kids from back to you, joanna. thank you, see you later. predators, but when the children are the information commissioner has exclusively told this programme that they're investigating the video online, where is... obviously sharing app, tiktok. the company has recently been under pa rents online, where is... obviously parents have to look out for what fire in the united states, their kids are doing but how hard is where it's been slapped with a 11.3 million pound fine it? it can be very hard for parents. for illegally collecting the data of thousands of children under it's very difficult to know what the age of 13. your child is doing online all the the app allows users to post short videos of themselves lip—syncing time to stop that's why it's really to their favourite artists, dancing to their favourite songs, important parents talk to their children about what they are doing or re—enacting comedy skits. online. have a conversation with them, like they would about their tiktok claims to have more day at school, talk to them about than 500 million monthly active what they like to do online, who users around the world and — by some estimates — their friends what they like to do online, who theirfriends are. what they like to do online, who their friends are. have a conversation over whether they are as many as a third of them using live streaming sites like are in their teens. tiktok is that if something occurs
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now, a bbc trending investigation that worries or upsets them, they has exposed flaws in the apps are able to have that honest handling of sexually explicit comments and grooming behavior. conversation with their child and hopefully then these kinds of here's marco silva's report. problems can be open, openly chris and haley have a 10—year—old discussed. beeban, if someone is son who, like many children his age, found to have been sending messages enjoys video games and football. and their account is suspended, it until recently, they had no is so easy for someone to set up idea their son had downloaded video—sharing app tiktok another account anonymously. how onto his phone, until one does anybody, how do the tech day messages started companies get to grips with that? popping up on his screen. i have come home from work then it's a funny argument about what is obviously turned on the phone and looked at the messages and then, technically possible. you alluded to it in the report in a way. these they were like, "do not ignore me. "i know who you are..." guys want to send tourists to the moon and want to make our city is but swearing — "i know who you are full of driverless cars... it is not and i'll come and get you." so, obviously, like, threatening a 10—year—old with them sort of messages. beyond the well, if they put one bit of resource into making sure that chris didn't know where the messages children were safe. i would actually were coming from, but when he looked say that we have to start flipping at the profile of the tiktok user it and saying, you may not provide who had sent them, he saw the photo of an adult man. that service unless it is safe for this worried chris, so he opened the app and looked through his son's inbox, children. so, take the where he found four messages sent responsibility away from parents and
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by four different men. children for keeping it safe. we he goes on youtube... he likes making videos. would not allow it in the real yeah, he likes making videos. world. i think this is the shift we football videos and things. that's probably the reason have to make as a society that i why he went on there, very much hope that the bill that is to do something summat coming is going to take that similar to that. but then when you've got people attitude. i was going to say, by like this getting in touch with your children... he's ten years old, so he's putting personal liability on the was very vulnerable. buses, is it a game changer?” chris and haley quickly deleted the app from their son's phone putting personal liability on the buses, is it a game changer? i think it will be better if the government and alerted the school for what had happened. they are glad that nothing will do that finally, i don't know. more serious came of it, i would welcome it. i have seen but the whole episode has enough parents morning children, to taken its toll on their son. whom tragic things have happened, we were trying to give him a bit and those guys have to take more freedom, sort of walking responsibility for that. they cannot to school with his friends go back to their families, whole and and walking home from school with his friends, and he won't do that now. he wants to be picked happy families, and leave our up allthe time. families as the dexterous of their tiktok is a social media app business model. it is not ok. gary that focuses on video. the company says it's used on twitter saying, absolutely by more than 500 million disgusting this has been brought to people and their biggest the attention of tiktok and the accou nts the attention of tiktok and the a ccou nts of the attention of tiktok and the market — teenagers. accounts of paedophiles have not been closed. hats off to the kids use it to post videos of themselves lip vigilance and savvy of the parents synching and dancing and your piece. i hope the child gets over it soon for someone to their favourite songs.
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anonymous text, my child loved most arejust easygoing, harmless bits of fun, making lip syncing videos on another but as chris and haley's story platform. i was outraged to these shows, there's a darker side to the app. fun and innocent videos had utterly adults use it, not only inappropriate comments in the comment section from adult males. it to contact children, but also to post sexual comments seems the makers of the platform have no interest in doing anything on their videos. about this. the problem seems rife we found hundreds of them on tiktok, and it is notjust tiktok, there are offering children money for sex, lots of these apps. what, martha, telling kids to show parts would you say to parents whose kids of their body on screen, are going on these sites? should asking girls to perform sexual acts, people saying they're aroused nine—year—old to be on these sites? by the video. we know live streaming sites are so what exactly is the company doing to protect children? quite high risk sites. the nspcc recently did some research and we i came up with a test using the same found of children who live stream, tools available to any one in 20 have been asked to get tiktok user out there — undressed or changed while live i reported 100 sexually streaming. we know they are explicit comments. high—risk sites. we would ask pa rents to high—risk sites. we would ask parents to think carefully about these were clearly against tiktok‘s whether it is appropriate. if pa rents a re own rules, but most were not taken whether it is appropriate. if parents are not sure about a down until i contacted tiktok particular site, they can go to our and identified myself as a journalist. net aware site which has information about lots of different apps and has reviews by pa rents i repeated the test two months about lots of different apps and has reviews by parents and children about what they do and don't like later, and this time around, tiktok did manage to take down most about what they do and don't like about going online. how quick our
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kids to report if they are asked to of the sexually explicit do something like you just comments we reported, described, take off their clothes on but only four of the people who'd a live stream ? posted them had their described, take off their clothes on a live stream? did many actually end up account suspended. a live stream? did many actually end up going down that path? which means, of course, a live stream? did many actually end up going down that path7m a live stream? did many actually end up going down that path? it depends on the child, unfortunately. what we that adults who send children sexually explicit messages do know and what feedback we have are being allowed to had from children is quite often stay on the platform. they have reported things before and they haven't got, really, nothing has been done so it makes a slap on the wrist. them far less likely to report it in it is just like, "oh, yeah, we are just going to remove comment." future. that is why it's so important we have a regulator that they should be should be taken is able to make sure children are off it and reported. it's their app — they've got able to report and they are taken a responsibility now, if people are getting seriously, particularly in the case on there and sending messages of child abuse, it is just not ok. like this, they should be contacting the police at the very least. thank you both very much. keep your chris is not alone in his anger. thoughts coming in on that. we are in fact, other parents that i've been speaking to have shared with me similar feelings about tiktok. so, i took their concerns and the results of our investigation returning to brexit. to the children's commissioner for england. as a mum herself, would she ever allow her child to go on tiktok? theresa may has asked eu i think any parent that would see these comments for a further delay on these quite innocent, to brexit to the 30thjune. our political correspondent kind of, postings would want to say ben wright is in westminster to explain more. to their kids, you know, a further extension request to this is not a place for you.
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brexit. she asked for one last i would want them to month, which means as things stand, get them off there. and if they're under the uk are set to leave the eu on 13, they absolutely shouldn't be on here. the uk are set to leave the eu on the 12th of april, with or without a anne longfield says tiktok has deal. of course, she hasn't had her to take action as a result of our investigation, withdrawal agreement passed in the both in removing dangerous content common so we are currently heading and also clamping down towards a no—deal brexit on the 12th. she and the eu both agree that on the users posting it. in the physical world, we'll need to be extended. this is a we would come down like a tonne 3—page letter, in which the prime of bricks onto anyone who made minister sets out her desire to see the environment that we place an extension until the 30th ofjune, ourselves in and children unsafe, and i think it is exactly explaining why she wants the extra the same online. time. but making it clear that she anne longfield says she'll write to tiktok and ask hopes that the uk can still leave by for a meeting with them. she wants to make sure tiktok may the 23rd. why is that data takes their responsibilities important? that is the moment the towards children seriously. abuse, harassment and sexual european parliamentary elections are comments don't make up for most held. the uk, if it is still in the of the posts on tiktok. european union at that point, would in fact, for some teenagers, the app be legally obliged to take part. so has almost become a way of life. this is a letter in which she is emily and lauren are 15. saying to the european union, please give me some more time, i have a they're best friends, plan, i'm working with labour to try they live in northamptonshire, and get my deal through, ijust need and together they run a joint tiktok and get my deal through, ijust need a few more weeks. this morning, the channel under the name em and loz. foreign secretary jeremy a few more weeks. this morning, the
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foreign secretaryjeremy hunt explained why the government was every week, they post videos of themselves dancing, doing this. it's obviously not optimal to have singing, sometimes acting. any extension at all. we have a plan they have more than one million followers on tiktok and counting. to leave the eu and deliver on the it is, like, it is really odd, referendum result, which we put because, obviously, before parliament a number of times. when we're in public, sometimes people recognise us we still hope to leave the eu in the and we're very, like, shocked about it because it next couple of months. that is our all happened quite quickly. yeah, because we started off, like, ambition. we don't have a majority not many fans at all on the app, in parliament and that means that we and then, like, when we got that have to have these discussions with jeremy corbyn, to see if there is video that went quite viral on it, enough common ground to do that. it sort of started us off, and we were really surprised. could you, the cabinet, except that we couldn't believe it. long extension? if we can't find a and then, from there, our videos started to get way through with parliament, we have more and more popular, no choice. and then, yeah, it was crazy. they tell me their fans are, what is happening with those talks? in general, a good bunch, they don't usually post harassing between labour and the tories? comments on their videos, obviously, that potentially could unlock things. and when they do, they know exactly what to do about them. potentially. they are carrying on. there will be talks between the two i mean, if we get a negative comment, we can easilyjust teams today doesn't not much of delete it, or we can block substance is emerging from them. we them, report them. know where the dividing lines are, there also is an option to turn for example labour's desire to have off your comments sections. emily's dad also keeps a close eye a customs union with the european
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union in future. so far, the on what the girls do on tiktok. government is resistant out. labour pushing the idea that might need to whatever she does comes onto my phone as well, bea pushing the idea that might need to be a referendum on any deal that is passed in the commons. the and i can watch what they're up government digging in against that. to and, obviously, can see it is hard to see where the different comments i get, compromise might be but those talks and if i feel i need to step continue. as the prime minister set out in this letter, if they go in and i think something out nowhere, then at some point, may be of order is going on, then i will. as soon as next week, the government but, to be honest, every time i've will hold a series of what they are gone on there, they've been fine. calling indicative votes, to try and but they get hundreds of comments, get the commons to plump for and so it didn't take me long alternative visions of the future, to find a sexually explicit one that they can unite around. posted on one of their videos. so she is setting out in this letter when i reported it to tiktok, a process that theresa may herself it was still there 2a hours later, spelled—out number ten this week, which represents a shift in her and the person who posted it, strategy. she has clearly given up their account was still active. trying to get this withdrawal yeah, it is a bit worrying agreement through on the back of her when they do catch people saying bad own brexiteers and the dup. she things or sexual things. needs an opposition support. i think thatis they should have the power to sort needs an opposition support. i think that is what her appeal is to donald of block them more and they should tusk and european leaders in this take them away straightaway. letter. saying, i have a plan, parents say it is tiktok‘s please give me some time. the question is whether this is enough responsibility to protect for the european union. because now it is out of her hands and
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their children from predators and from all those people sending parliament because my hands are many ways. any extension will only be them sexual messages. and in westminster, given if the european union agrees politicians are listening. well, we're very interested in this and is satisfied that she has a investigation and we've been discussing content regulation with a number of different strategy for delivering a withdrawal social media companies. agreement and getting this through. they look at british politics at the we'll certainly take a good look moment and say something that is at what's been happening at tiktok. tiktok says the issues raised extraordinarily unstable. they may by our investigation affect wonder whether the map she sketches the social media industry out in this letter can really be as a whole. delivered. thank you very much. they can use that technology to target advertising as a whole, but they don't seem to be able a new report by a group to use their technology of mps says gypsy, roma to identify offensive and traveller communities are being comprehensively failed behaviour or potential harm. by councils and the government. and i think many people will question that and i think that the problem is there the women and equalities committee is a commercial incentive in doing held a two year enquiry, one, but not in the other. which found that travelling people had worse experiences than any other ethnic group meanwhile, i ask chris in a range of things, and haley whether, given the right assurances, including health, education and hate crime. they would ever allow their for example, one in five gypsy 10—year—old son back onto tiktok. or traveller mothers will experience no, not a chance. they way i look at it, we're very the loss of a child, compared to one in 100 lucky, in a way, that it wasn't... in the general population. the report makes almost 50 because when you hear some reports, recommendations, including collecting better information like, from friends, or even about the communities. people online and stuff, let's speak to ivy manning, about what their child's been
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sent, it's disgusting, who is a romany gypsy and mum of two; sherrie smith, and for my son to be threatened, who set up a website so that we've got away quite lightly, to be fair, because, obviously, information about hate crimes against the traveller communities if he started engaging could be recorded, and the labour in conversation with them, mp tonia antoniazzi, then what could have been next? who is on the women and equalities a tiktok spokesperson told us committee. that the platform uses... "a combination of policies, technology and moderation strategies welcome to all of you, thank you for to detect and review problematic content and accounts and joining us. tonia, lets talk more about what the report has come up with. it paints a picture of perhaps the most disadvantaged and disenfranchised community. is that how you would describe it? that has definitely been the findings of the inquiry. it has been quite shocking to listen first—hand to the stories of the gypsy roma traveller community and to see what challenges they are still facing. these are historic challenges which have not been dealt with properly by the government. it is striking that they are still there in communities today. one example is people don't know it is illegal to discriminate
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against gypsy roma traveller people and when they do they don't realise it is unacceptable. it is not. why do you think it has taken so long to be looked at by mps? our inquiry took two years and it had a large base of evidence and information we have drawn from. we are now feeding into the government. i think, to be honest with you, the gypsy roman traveller community have been very overlooked. they are a smaller community and that is what is so brilliant about this inquiry. it really highlights where the inadequacies are. there are lots of good projects going on across the united kingdom that are dealing with issues, but they are very localised and there is very little follow—up. let's bring in ivy sherry. it is shocking to hear a lot of people do not know it is a legal
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to discriminate against members of your community, and even if they do know it, they will do it anyway. just some other things that have emerged, is other headlines which have emerged from the mps report on issues around health, life expectancy, ten to 12 years less than non—traveller population. 42% of members of the communities are affected by long—term health conditions, compared to 18% of the general population. a mention there the number those suffering the loss ofa the number those suffering the loss of a child. tell us about your experiences. i work for an organisation that is community led. a couple of years ago after brexit we wrote a speech about hate crime and we realised there were no figures for a crime against gypsy and travellers. we set up a website
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and travellers. we set up a website and since then we have taken reports and since then we have taken reports and we have realised gypsies and travellers are discriminated against and underpins everything that is wrong for gypsies and travellers, discrimination in housing and health, this report is welcomed by us health, this report is welcomed by us but it is no surprise this is what the ngos and organisations have been saying to the government for yea rs. we been saying to the government for years. we do welcome this, and the other fact is the government have eight weeks to respond and tell us how they will respond and what we need is an accurate and formally to plan, instead of talking out it we need a plan. you talk about discrimination across the piece. what are some of the worst experiences you have encountered, whether it is from personally or people contacting you, of discrimination? we have to report racism and we see the worst of the hate crime across the uk at gate
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hert. but we have awful cases, my school, kids are in a supportive school, kids are in a supportive school but they suffer racism every day, the school does deal with it but other schools do not. when you say racism, what do you mean? they are called names, they are not a lwa ys are called names, they are not always friends with people, people don't want to be friends with them, a recent report said 91% of gypsies and travellers will suffer hate crime and often that is physical, so that affects the kids at school, there is often no knowledge and no education. the report recommends that there should be a chapter on romany and gypsy month. how can young children in school be reasonable with gypsies if there is nothing about them. my organisation, what we have started doing as we have started going out, training schools, prospective workers that are going to work with gypsies and
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travellers, and going into universities, and we are training social workers and probation officers, so they are not getting that in their training, they don't know how to engage with us as a community and this report shows that is fundamentally underpinning everything that is wrong and bad for us. ivy, you are living on the road until seven years ago until you decided to stop because you wanted your kids to go to school, you've got two kids who are seven and 11. tell us about your experiences. i've lived on the roadside my whole life up lived on the roadside my whole life up until just over seven lived on the roadside my whole life up untiljust over seven years ago. i decided i didn't have much education, i left school when i was 11 because we were always being moved on, and ijust thought to try and give my kids a better start in life, it was to get them into school. it has been quite difficult being brought up on the road. kind of enjoyed every moment of it. so it
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has been very challenging over the years and education does play a major part. but i do feel without adequate accommodation, then how can these communities, how can gypsy traveller roma community access health care or education? we just wa nt health care or education? we just want to be accepted and welcomed into the wider community. how is it for your kids? sherrie said her children experience discrimination at school in spite of the fact they are not living on the road, they are in school were just the same as everybody else. but the discrimination continues. do you feel your children will have a different future from you and what is it like for them now?|j different future from you and what is it like for them now? i would hope to think they could have a better and a different future. and to be accepted. but my kids have still had ups and downs from the beginning of primary school because when they disclosed that they lived ina caravan,
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when they disclosed that they lived in a caravan, you know, little kids said they were trailer trash and used phrases like that and some of the parents would say, yeah, they are on the gypo site, it has got better but it is still around and many families suffer discrimination in all forms. i experienced it at school, i was called stinky pikey on several occasions. it makes you a bit tough and a bit defensive at times. it is very difficult. from this report, it is much welcomed, any report is welcomed, that shows any report is welcomed, that shows any inequalities for gypsies and travellers that highlights it. but asa travellers that highlights it. but as a mother i would plead with the government to take action to make a change for the future generations so they don't have to face these inequalities, discrimination, you know, for their generations. it is very difficult because we get up, we
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go to work, and there is good and bad in everyone but we just want to be accepted and welcomed into the community. can the government promised that things are going to change? they have a time limit in which they have to respond and what is important, picking up on a couple of things, is education, raising awareness, you know, the gypsies we re awareness, you know, the gypsies were persecuted by the nazisjust after the second world war. our children in schools aware of this? are they being taught it? we need to be promoting the gypsy roma travel at month and all of the issues need to be dealt with particularly by schools. —— to be dealt with particularly by schools. — — gypsy to be dealt with particularly by schools. —— gypsy roma traveller month. it is part of the responsibility of schools under the public sector equality duty to be challenging these race and gender stereotypes and we need to be breaking down these barriers. that kind of language that has been
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spoken about should never be used, never be heard in schools in public, and it is our duty to ensure that that changes and it doesn't happen. i want to bring in a quick comment from that who has texted to say gypsies are the most hated people in the world. in the 1970s and 80s shops displayed no gypsy on the doors, the police stopped us every day, we have no one to fight for us, i have my land in ashford, they moved me on, i sold i have my land in ashford, they moved me on, isold it i have my land in ashford, they moved me on, i sold it to a non—gypsy and he was allowed to stay there. some bad people that still say they do not want gypsies in their towns. sherrie, say they do not want gypsies in theirtowns. sherrie, briefly, what is the legacy of that? ivy was saying it toughens you up. is the legacy of that? ivy was saying it toughens you upm is the legacy of that? ivy was saying it toughens you up. it does toughen you up, and it makes you lock yourself off, this is what it does, it makes you shut yourself off to the rest of society if you spend every day being persecuted. and as she says, this year is the 70th anniversary of roma genocide, it is not taught on the national curriculum, not at any level, not
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even to teachers. how can we expect the general public to begin to understand us if they don't have any information? every year as a group we go out from the uk to crack —— crack of to celebrate our memorial. there are flowers from around the world but never from the uk and it isa snub world but never from the uk and it is a snub and i hope the government can listen this time. this report has taken two years, can listen this time. this report has ta ken two years, lots of organisations have put a lot of effort into this, we are all volu nteers effort into this, we are all volunteers basically, so we need the support, we need the structure. it is all well and good producing the report but we need actions, we need this to change. thank you all, i don't want to finish with another comment coming in from someone watching, an anonymous text, my son is 11 and in his third school, when he went to second school the head teacher made a point to approach me and tell me, we have never had one of those in our school. it is sad to think you have the option to put down that you are a romany gypsy and
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yet the teachers and the head feels it is ok to refer to us as one of those. keep your comments coming in. we will speak to some of the 500 pupils from raheem sterling's old school who are going to wembley tomorrow to watch manchester city in their fa cup semifinal after he arranged free tickets for them. and enough is enough. liverpool's ladies told the daily mail they are sick of being shamed for the way they look and act at the grand national horse racing festival at aintree. the england and manchester city forward raheem sterling has arranged for more than 500 pupils from his old school to watch his team's fa cup semifinal match against brighton at wembley tomorrow. at the ark elvin academy, which is just a 10—minute walk from the national stadium.
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24—old sterling is at the top of his game right now — but has repeatedly been in the spotlight because of the racial abuse thrown at him. the way he has handled it led england manager gareth southgate to say he's developing into an outstanding role model. with us this morning we've gotjubil kunnassery, head of pe at raheem sterling's old school — ark elvin academy, and three very excited students. two of them — mamadou diallo and razvan tamari are year 10 students, and one, vili buchkov, is in year 8. welcome to all of you. you must be excited about going to wembley tomorrow. it is nice of him to do this. what are your thoughts?” think that what he's done for us is amazing and for all of our school it's amazing and giving us the opportunity to watch him in action is really good and a kind gesture from him. you met him yesterday. what did you think?” from him. you met him yesterday. what did you think? i was inspired and motivated from the words he
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said. he was not very good in school on the academic side. he always used to think about football and he got in trouble but he went through those barriers and there he is now. and, do you see him as a role model? yes, of course. obviously yesterday's experience was incredible and with him being a student that went to our school i think he inspired many people and all the children in the room. you will want to be footballers, is that right? is that because of him, or do you think you would have wanted to do it anyway? obviously, raheem sterling is a great player right now, he's doing very well and there are other people who also play football that obviously motivate us to want to become like them. but especially him, because he was a student at our school. being at your school and seeing wembley not far off the road, do you dream of playing there one
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day? of course. it's like the main target. we see wembley every day and whenever i look at it it gives me motivation and it makes me feel like it's a dream to play there. just looking at these pictures of you all in manchester yesterday. how was that? it was amazing. the whole stadium was new, it's really nice, meeting raheem was an amazing opportunity, he was very down to earth and very humble and i felt like he was one of us. jubil, it is such a thoughtful gesture of his. how did you find out about it? on monday we got an e—mail from raheem sterling's agent and then it all blew up from there. has he remained close to the school? obviously he
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feels a real affinity to make a gesture like this. so, obviously, raheem sterling used to to the school and it has been many years, he moved to liverpool and he is now at manchester city. he gives us a few m essa g es at manchester city. he gives us a few messages now and again. but what he did buying tickets for us we are so grateful for it. a lot of people go on to achieve great things and don't necessarily... i'm sure internally they look back to where they have come from, but it does make you think that it is something thatis make you think that it is something that is there as a present thought in his mind that he was a kid once, just like these boys and like so many others with aspirations and hopes of what he would achieve. but i suppose he wants to send a message to all these kids, if you really wa nt to all these kids, if you really want something you can do it. do you think that's what's going on with him? it'sjust a fantastic opportunity for our children. we live roughly ten minutes away from the school and the majority of our
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pupils have never been to a stadium foran pupils have never been to a stadium for an event or a football match, and even though raheem sterling is one of the best paid footballers in the world, certainly in the country, we are the world, certainly in the country, we a re really the world, certainly in the country, we are really grateful that he's still thinking about us and his community and where he grew up, where he has come from, so we are very thankfulfor where he has come from, so we are very thankful for it. jubil vili, you have never been to a match. are you excited? i'm really excited to see it. did you get to have a kickabout with him? u nfortu nately have a kickabout with him? unfortunately not. that would have been really cool. did anything strike you particularly? his advice when i asked him really stuck with me. he said always follow your dreams and always follow your path and give that focus on your football and give that focus on your football and your motivation and determination to football and that
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really stuck with me. it just shows we are the same as him and itjust shows that we can do anything with ha rd shows that we can do anything with hard work and determination and passion. i think we can hear a little clip of you meeting him. let's have a listen. you probably faced a lot of setbacks. how did you overcome them, and what did it take for you to have that winning mentality? i got setbacks in school — sometimes being in trouble, getting put in the reflection zone. you know, i had a support teacher at the school that was so good with me, understood me and tried to give me encouragement. i think that is massive, people, you know, putting an arm around you at times when it is difficult. how would you describe man city in three words? family, enjoyable and quality. yeah. that's so nice. he was obviously saying what you are saying about
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follow your dreams. i hope you have a great time. bill has e—mailed, i laughed out loud when i heard about raheem sterling's wembley tickets, what a joy. it is such a great thing and we hope you enjoy it. thank you for coming in. get in touch with your thoughts on everything we are talking about. as usual. #victoria live. if you are happy for us to contact live. if you are happy for us to co nta ct you live. if you are happy for us to contact you and want to take part in the programme, please include your phone number in your message and charges will be at the standard network rate. some of the interesting stories we have covered have come directly from you, the viewers, so it's always good to hear from you, not just viewers, so it's always good to hear from you, notjust about viewers, so it's always good to hear from you, not just about what we are talking about on the programme but anyissues talking about on the programme but any issues particularly affecting you that you think we should know about. by midnight last night, all big companies had to publish their figures for how much they pay men, compared to women. it's not about whether they're paid equally for the same work, but rather whether there are more men in a company earning higher salaries than women. and across 45% of businesses,
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the gap between men and women's pay increased in favour of male employees. more than 10,000 businesses recorded their details by the deadline. according to bbc analysis men were paid more than women at 78% of those companies. and across 45% of businesses, the gap between men's and women's pay increased in favour of male employees. with me now is loraine martins, director of diversity and inclusion at network rail. welcome. thank you forjoining us. what is the picture at network rail? the picture at network rail is our gender pay gap is 11.2%, which is a slight incremental decrease on last yea r‘s slight incremental decrease on last year's figure, which was 11.5%. so, have you been working hard in the knowledge that the figures are going to be publicly scrutinised? absolutely, and in fact, we published our gender pay gap report at the end of last year so we have
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been working very diligently to address the gender pay gap, but more importantly, to increase gender diversity in our business, where —— we are traditionally a male orientated organisation and we know we have a big task to include more women in our workforce. how have you gone about it? to change something quickly is not easy without may be getting rid of some men. positively discriminating in favour of women. what do you do? that's a great question. in the first instance positive discrimination is illegal so that is not something we would entertain stop we take a strategic approach to diversity and inclusion and to increase the gender diversity of our organisation. in part by the way we have trained all of our hiring managers to make sure that they don't operate in terms of unconscious bias. so we require hiring managers to undertake that training before doing recruitment. do you think there was much
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unconscious bias going on before? or maybe not always unconscious? absolutely, you are right, it can work both ways but we are working really ha rd to work both ways but we are working really hard to eliminate bias. and also in terms of how we describe our job descriptions, so we have made the language more gender neutral and it makes it more attractive and accessible to a whole range of people that may not have thought as the railway is a place for them. that is obviously an aspect as well, isn't it? women may be feeling they are not right for a particular environment. that applies to perhaps going for promotions, but also going infor going for promotions, but also going in for certain industries. so that's something, reaching out to people who have not put themselves forward as may be quite hard as well. that's exactly right and that has been part of our approach over the last five or so years. we have been really deliberate in trying to make our environment more accessible, the kind of facilities we have making sure they are accessible to women, making sure that the kind of culture and environment is right for women,
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and environment is right for women, and that takes time. those things don't change overnight. and also, we are looking at how we can retain women, it's notjust about bringing women, it's notjust about bringing women in but also about making sure they have good opportunities for promotion, we have a returners programme so if you've been off for some while we put the systems in place to make sure that your return is easy. similarly we are looking at how the career trajectory of women in terms of offering particular development programmes that women are white want in our business. when it comes to training —— women might want. to avoid discrimination, doesn't it come down to a simple sentence? women are equal to men. and see them that way? that's part of it and also by merit, so you don't want to disenfranchise people so they think they are being recruited because of a particular aspect of their identity. so we make sure that when you have been shortlisted and you have got to the
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interview stage, you are absolutely there on merit and that is what you wa nt there on merit and that is what you want all of our hiring managers to remember. what we don't want to do is exclude people because of a particular aspect of their identity and that's what the training makes sure we avoid. similarly, we make sure we avoid. similarly, we make sure our interview panels are more mixed because if you have more diversity you are more likely to attract more diversity. on twitter, in my experience women opt for longer maternity leave and return to part—time hours. we cannot blame men or companies for women's choices. i've progressed because i don't have or want i've progressed because i don't have orwanta i've progressed because i don't have or want a family, surely it's about personal choice. karen, i'm the rare sort of woman who wanted to stay home and nurture it so i'm labelled by society and the system by dependent but not by my own family, i'm in indispensable to them. i compare myself to any professional, property keeper, nanny, and it is
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50-50. the property keeper, nanny, and it is 50—50. the gender pay gap has come down a little bit. when do you expect it to be equalised? that is a good question. it's a long journey. we caution it may well go up because where we do volume recruitment is the areas of apprenticeships and graduates, that's where we can appoint lots of people. so that trajectory coming in at early entry level and moving up in the organisation takes time. we are also conscious that the shift in our pay gap will occur quicker where we have senior appointments. so it's making sure those opportunities that are advertised widely so that people can apply. we haven't anticipated a particular time but we are conscious that there will be a fluctuation but we understand why, and i think that is key to addressing the gender pay 93p- is key to addressing the gender pay gap. thank you very much. a senior reporter at the liverpool echo has written a letter to the daily mail asking them to stop publishing
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embarrassing pictures of women at aintree. katherine murphy wrote, if you can't let them enjoy themselves without making fun of them, you are not welcome in liverpool. you may have seen photos like this before published in yesterday's mail online. people drunk and in optimising positions, but do they deserve to feel safe in their knowledge, even when worse for wear, they will not be splashed in the papers? it is notjust the daily mail. similar pictures have emerged in other newspapers today. we can speak now to catherine murphy, a senior reporter at the liverpool echo. laura mccaughan, 23—year—old receptionist, will also be going to the races later today. welcome, both of you. catherine, what message do you want to get out there? what are you saying and why? i basically want to get behind the women who come to aintree every year and feel so self—conscious and
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nervous that they may appear in newspapers like the daily mail. it is to support them and get our message across that enough is enough now and taking photos in that way is not funny no more. i do think we have reached this point where we will no longer tolerate it. how will you no longer tolerate it? what can be done to actually stop any photographer at the races taking any sort of picture they like, if in the end women are doing certain things? they are the ones... what they are doing is not being made up it may not be being made up but it does not need publicising either. these are women who have looked forward to a day out at the races will stop they have spent money on their outfits. and just because they may not be
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deemed to be acting acceptably or in a way that other people would, they don't deserve to have their photographs splashed across a national newspaper just for effectively having a good time. let's have a look at some more of the pictures we are talking about. i mentioned it is notjust the daily mail. a lot of the papers are printing pictures like this and using words like fillies to describe the women. there you go. these are some pictures from previous years. they are a familiar sight. catherine, when you talk about not wanting this stuff to be out there and about women feeling that they are self—conscious and nervous about appearing in the papers like this, would you say to those women, take some responsibility for their
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behaviour? or, are you saying they should be able to do whatever they like and it simply shouldn't end up in the papers? i think they should be able to do an act how they wish to do. every single person who has come to aintree has paid a ticket to get in first of all, they have spent money on an outfit like i said earlier. why should they have to conform to this so—called acceptable way of behaving. i'm not really understanding why just because someone is having a good time they should assume that they are going to be papped, i don't think it's right at all. obviously i've been working at all. obviously i've been working at aintree for a lot of years at aintree and i saw one lady nearly in tea rs aintree and i saw one lady nearly in tears because she realised her photograph was now in a newspaper. we are short on time. i want to bring in laura. have you everfelt
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judged by having a picture taken at aintree? well, wheneverl judged by having a picture taken at aintree? well, whenever i went a few years ago i ended up in the newspaper i was judged to years ago i ended up in the newspaper i wasjudged to be best dressed so it wasn'tjudged in a bad way so it is fine to have photographers there. where would you draw the line, in a sentence? when it comes to alcohol and drinking during the day, you should try and bea during the day, you should try and be a bit more aware of how much you can drink. ladies, thank you. enjoy ladies day, we are out of time on the programme today. it's good to talk to you and great to have your comments from home, thank you for your company. bbc newsroom live coming up next. i will see you soon. for many of us it is a drier and brighter and warmer day than it
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was yesterday. you can see from the latest satellite imagery, lots of sunshine across eastern areas. further west we have a zone of cloud moving up from the south—west, all linked into an area of low pressure, and with that we have showers moving their way further northward across south—west england, wales, the isle of man coming to south—west scotland and northern ireland. it will stay largely fine and sunny across northern and eastern parts. temperatures getting up to 12—14d but staying quite cool beneath the cloud, the rain and very gusty winds with highs of 7—10d in the west. through tonight, cloud will spread in across eastern areas, some showers coming in with that as well. overnight temperatures down to about 3-6dc, overnight temperatures down to about 3—6dc, perhaps a touch of frost in the glens of scotland, and over the weekend, really quite a bit of cloud, coming from the east where there will be some showers, it will feel chilly as well. otherwise, they will be some sunshine, a little bit of rain, especially some thunderstorms on sunday. bye and
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bye. you're watching bbc newsroom live. it's11am and these are the main stories this morning: theresa may writes to the eu and asks for an extension to article 50 until the end ofjune. possibly until... donald tusk says he is considering offering in the uk a year long extension... meanwhile labour are meeting with the government to see if they can reach a possible deadline to the talks. a
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woman who killed her husband pleads guilty to manslaughter after her conviction was
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