tv Victoria Derbyshire BBC News May 9, 2019 10:00am-11:00am BST
hello. it's thursday. it's ten o'clock. i'm victoria derbyshire. good morning. the government will cover the cost of replacing £200 million worth of unsafe building cladding similar to the type used on grenfell tower. it had previously insisted the building owners should pay. we will bring you the story. "in our culture you put up and shut up," so say black men who've survived childhood sexual abuse. i didn't speak to anybody. how can you? i'm a grown man now, but it doesn't go away. i didn't address it. see, that's the thing, i didn't address it, and because i didn't address it, it didn't go away. post—traumatic stress disorder is at crisis levels in the police,
with one in five officers in the uk sufering from it. we'll be talking to a man who retired from the police last week because of ptsd. ed sheeran has leapfrogged adele. stormzy is in it for the first time. and andrew lloyd webber tops them all. it's the list of the uk's richest musicians. hello. welcome to the programme. well i have until 11 as we are each weekday. if you are getting in touch, you are very welcome. use the hashtag victoria life. you can also email. here is the news with a need good morning. —— with annita mcveigh.
the government is to provide a £200 million fund to replace unsafe cladding on privately owned buildings similar to that used on grenfell tower. ministers have identified more than 150 buildings that still need to be made safe following the fire in 2017, but work has stalled because of disputes over who should pay. now, the pace of change has not been fast enough. many developers have done the right thing, have stepped in, and we expect them to maintain those commitments and they have done so. but ultimately, what's been driving me is that sense of public safety and indeed the interests of those living in those buildings, caught up in a situation that they didn't know about, that they didn't expect, and therefore it is that need to get on, make progress. nearly one—in—five police officers across the uk have symptoms of post—traumatic stress disorder, according to a major study by the university of cambridge. the research found that many try to continue working with the condition, and only a minority of staff have been clinically diagnosed. attending murder scenes and viewing online terrorism material were among the suspected causes of the illness. more needs to be done
by the government to support black male survivors of sexual abuse, according to a cross—party group of mps. several survivors have told this programme they've been made to feel invisible and that black men haven't come forward to report historical abuse because of stigma in their communities, their lack of trust in the police and a failure of charities to cater for them. more than £1 billion a year will need to be spent to protect homes and infrastructure from the effect of climate change, according to the environment agency. it says more than five million people in england could be affected, with some communities having to move elsewhere. two english clubs will face each other in the champions league final for the first time in more than ten years, after tottenham followed liverpool in staging one of the competition's greatest ever comebacks. 2a hours after liverpool knocked out barcelona, spurs scored a 96th—minute winner
in amsterdam to beat ajax 3—2. spurs take on liverpool for the title in madrid, onjune the 1st. the broadcaster danny baker has apologised after tweeting about the duke and duchess of sussex‘s son using a picture of an ape and being accused of mocking the duchess‘s racial heritage. danny baker — who presents on bbc radio 5live — made a comment about the birth, tweeting a black and white photo showing a well—dressed man and woman holding hands with a suited chimpanzee. mr baker later deleted the tweet and wrote a new one saying that it was — in his words — supposed to have been a joke about royals versus circus animals in posh clothes but that it had been interpreted as about monkeys and race. an ancient anglo—saxon burial site, discovered between an aldi supermarket and a pub in essex, has been described as britain's equivalent of tutankhamun‘s tomb.
the site is believed to mark the resting place of the brother of an anglo—saxon king. among the artefacts found were golden foil crosses and a painted wooden instrument. archaeologists believe this could be britain's earliest known christian royal burial, dating back to the sixth century. and that's a summary of our main story so far. back to you, victoria. thank you. at around 10:30am we will speak to british irish singer songwriter maverick sabre about politics, about how he feels working class people are portrayed, and about his latest album, when i wake up. if you would like to ask him a question, send us a tweet or an email, and there is also facebook and text and all the usual ways that you can contact us this morning. black male survivors of childhood abuse say they are made to feel invisible and that there's
a lack of tailored support for them. they say black men are not coming forward to report historical abuse sometimes because of stigma in their communities, sometimes their lack of trust in the police and a failure of charities to caterfor them. a report by mps this week echoes those feelings, saying that more must be done to support certain communities. the bbc‘s lgbt correspondent, ben hunte, is a survivor himself, and he went to meet others. a warning that his report contains descriptions of sexual abuse that some may find distressing. it ruins your life. if i wasn't abused what would i be today? black men. it's the culture. we don't think about to get that person arrested. it's the background that we come from. i've been there too. i was sexually abused as a teenager by someone older who i trusted. and when i looked for help i couldn't find any. i even tried to find something to show that i wasn't the only black man out there who'd been abused as a young person. i found nothing.
my experiences made me want to find out what is holding back black male victims of sexual abuse from speaking out? over the past few months, i've spoken to several black men who have also struggled with childhood sexual abuse. most of them have stayed totally silent — until now. i think it messed me up, you know? it messed me up. people like chris, whose name we've changed. it's like a scar that's there that you can't get rid of. chris was just 11 when he was groomed by a 19—year—old prefect at his school. we had to walk past these bushes. it was dark. nobody could see us. we went in there. he said... he's... hold on. oh, god. i'm sorry. sorry. it's ok. take your time. right...
he asked me to take my pants off and i had no control. i took my pants off and then he raped me. you know? it was quite painful, to be honest. i became that withdrawn after that. then i was sick for a while as well. i think it was depression at the time. but, you know, when you're a kid you don't know these things. i'm 11, you know? i became withdrawn completely. ijust changed and it shaped my personality today. so when this happened in school, did you speak to your teachers, did you speak to your family? no. i didn't speak to anybody. how can you? i'm a grown man now, but it doesn't go away. i didn't address it. you see, that's the thing — i didn't address it and because i didn't address it,
it didn't go away. after having a breakdown at university, i was made to see a therapist. it really helped discussing what had happened to me and it helped me move on in life. but, like chris, most black men don't ever speak up. nationally, black men are 17 times more likely to be diagnosed with a serious mental health illness than white men. for many black men, that's because their first experience of talking about their mental health and how they're feeling comes at a crisis point. this is one of the therapy rooms that we use. something that willis, a trauma therapist, knows all about. there's a large number of men that will access or begin to speak about their abuse whilst in the criminaljustice system because they've reached a point where it's almost as if they're at that broken point, and there's nothing else to lose. the impact on black men
of holding on to their stories and not speaking out is one of explosion or implosion. so for me, the explosion is whereby, you know, there's this outburst, an outpouring of emotion and pain in a way that can't be met because it'sjust an explosive experience. the implosion is that sense of depression. i'm holding a parliamentary report into childhood sexual abuse that's just been released. but even in this chunky document, someone like me, a black, gay man, is still hidden. right at the end of it, it says that black and lgbt survivors‘ experiences have not been included because of a lack of information. and it calls on the government to do more research. so what is the solution? meet sol, kevin and stefan. three black men living very different lives, but all experiencing the same struggles because of the sexual abuse they faced as children. they're all determined to speak up to help the next generation of black men. if i wasn't abused, what would i be today? stefan runs a charity aimed at young people encouraging them to give up gang violence,
something he struggled to do. it ruins your life — going in gangs and being powerful and strong and fighting the world, no matter who it is, and then at night going home crying to yourself over your demons that you're dealing with yourself. until you deal with those demons yourself, you're never going to be the person you want to be or the person that you're supposed to be because of the abuse that you've had. oh, my gosh. i was involved in as many things as i possibly could be. i was living this life. what kind of things? anything from just wrongdoing to more wrongdoing. while stefan and solse were in trouble with the law, they've now turned their lives around. solse says the community needs to speak up. we come from a culture where, you know, you shut up and put up. whatever you talk about, it keeps within the family.
to honour those values, you don't talk about your situation. i grew up in a culture where what's kept is said between the family. if it even gets said. but going to therapy, speaking to anyone outside — no—no, none of that. why have you not gone to police in recent years? i think as black men, we don't think about we're going to the police to get that person arrested. kevin has written a fictional book based on abuse after hearing the stories of many survivors. so what about charities, therapy? i don't think there is a charity that really, really supports black men, black or asian men, when it comes to sexual abuse. and i think the problem is we don't come forward. so because we don't come forward, there's not a problem. if i had saw a documentary or imagery of sexual abuse growing up that had black men where they spoke out, i probably would have spoken out. it probably wouldn't have taken me
30 years to actually come forward and say, "i've been sexually abused". same here. because black men don't come forward about their experiences, it's as if they don't exist. sitting down with those guys and talking about our lives has made me realise how hidden we are. so they're visibly not seen, if that makes sense. and that is really difficult. we can put a telephone number out there but then i think we have to ask ourselves — who are the people that are represented and what are the voices and the images that are represented that go with those phone numbers? and a large number of them will be white european male, and the voices will be those of white european males. so then for people to access services, it needs a service that mirrors them, that is representative of who they are. if black male relationships with the police aren't mended, if services don't start targeting them, and if communities hold back
from discussing these huge issues, many more generations of black men could stay suffering in silence. ijust don't know where to go. i think if i had a black gp or a black therapist, i could easily relate to them. you know, it's easy to relate to someone who gets you. it would make a huge difference. the stage has not been set for me to come out and have this conversation freely. nobody knows how many black men out there have been sexually abused as young people. but what we do know, through my experiences and others, are the lifelong effects of the abuse for black men who don't get the help they need. let's talk now to sarah champion, labourmp and chair of the all—party parliamentary group for adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse and first to king cas ajani who is speaking publicly for the first time about the abuse he experienced as a child. could you explain why you are now
deciding to speak publicly about this? it is important to understand that the more we stay quiet about these pressing issues, we will not find solutions whatsoever. for my part, growing up, i didn't have anybody i felt i could talk to. and asi anybody i felt i could talk to. and as i get old and the family is growing and we are having kids, nieces and nephews, i think, goodness, i would love for these to be able to have a conversation freely about what is going on. i didn't feel like that was a place for me and it is difficult. really difficult. you experienced abuse between the ages of seven and 14. that is a long time. i wonder if you could tell our audience about the impact it has on you as you are trying to grow up. for me personally it had a massive impact on my identity. is this 0k? not 0k? for some reason i feel like i can't tell anybody. and i really a man after something like that happened for so long? is it my fault? it is a very
ugly and a very dark place to be. for me in my formative years, it had me withdrawing from people. i didn't like going to family events. everybody thought i was doing the normal teenage stroppy thing but i was ashamed. i didn't want to go anywhere, i didn't want to be seen. i would play on my computer for two days at the weekend, nonstop, because that was my escape. and it was dark. it was dark. and it took a lot of introspection and eventually getting people around me who i could trust and speak to and express that, which helped me to overcome.“ there something specifically about you being a black man that made it harder to speak out?” you being a black man that made it harder to speak out? i believe so. i can speak for myself. for me, being a black man, and speaking about culturally where i come from, of zimbabwean birth, and the culture, the process, this is how you live your life, there are points that you have got to meet. and ifelt like i
wasn't meeting some of those points because of the things that happen. what was it about your specific culture that made it potentially harder to speak out? we are christians. that is number one. we don't talk about that. sex as a conversation in general is for a lot of us. —— is taboo. so we just leave it. so you definitely feel like you couldn't speak about abuse? no way. let me bring in sarah. first of all, your reaction to king speaking out about this now as an adult?|j your reaction to king speaking out about this now as an adult? ijust wa nt about this now as an adult? ijust want to say thank you. you have been incredibly brave for speaking out and you are a survivor and what you are doing will help other people come forward and get the support that they need. and this is the problem, victoria. the support is just not here in this country. we still keep child abuse hidden.
sorry, i'm getting emotional. we still have this culture where we blame the victims. these are victims ofan blame the victims. these are victims of an awful crime and why is it as a society we don't put the put in place for them? one of the recommendations you have made to ministers in your report is to do with the fact that you couldn't find any services for the bame community or the lgbt community. can you explain why specifically those tailored support services are needed? well, what we found from the report, and we spent six months talking to almost 400 survivors of childhood sexual abuse, so it is a pretty robust piece of work that we did, and what we found was that what they valued most was the support from charities, voluntary organisations, where they were meeting people who had lived experiences the same as them. whether that was from a similar culture, similar religion, but people that could really relate to
them personally. that took away 50% of the barriers. they felt fundamentally when they walked through the door there was going to be that understanding of the position they were coming to and thatis position they were coming to and that is really why we need to see these specialist services. scary thing is, and i wrote to the department of health, and i specifically asked the clinical groups what services they are commissioning and they don't even keep that data, so we don't know what services are out there. if i am a victim, a gayjewish woman looking for specialist services, i don't know how to find them. i don't know if they have been commissioned and neither does the government and that isa neither does the government and that is a dereliction of duty. king, do you agree with sarah, that specialist services are needed? completely. i saw some research and recently it was announced that the government is paying £24 million to sexual abuse if over the next three yea rs. sexual abuse if over the next three years. 0k, sexual abuse if over the next three years. ok, this is not specifying race or gender, whatever, it is a
very broad approach, i think, because breaking it down over three yea rs, because breaking it down over three years, letting 100,000 people access that service, you are looking at £240 per person over three years. £80 per service per person, barely enough for a therapist session. so what are we doing? i have a statement from the government. tackling child sexual abuse and bringing perpetrators to justice as a government priority and it is vital that we provide support for victims of sexual abuse. we want all victims of sexual abuse. we want all victims of sexual abuse. we want all victims of child sexual abuse to feel they can come forward and receive any support they need regardless of their background or sexuality. we are working across government and with the third sector to ensure that victims of this dreadful crime receive the right emotional and psychological support as they rebuild their lives. how do you respond to that, sarah champion, chair of the all—party group? you respond to that, sarah champion, chair of the all-party group? they are admirable aim is that they are only aim is. there is no evidence that we are getting the services that we are getting the services that we are getting the services
that we need. from our survey, 90% of them said it was impacting on their relationships. 89% said it was impacting on their mental health and only 16% said the services from the nhs for mental health issues they are presenting with were of any effect whatsoever. we are literally not seeing the support services on the ground. the fact the government does not even know what is being commissioned, how can it say that in my area there are services appropriate to my needs when it doesn't even know what is being commissioned? king was exactly right. it is a tiny drop in the ocean and what frustrates me most and what i am asking for and what my group is asking for, in the forthcoming spending review, we put aside a proper chunk of money for early intervention. not only is that morally the right thing to do, economically it makes sense. 72% of the people in our survey said it was impacting on their work. if it is impacting on their work. if it is impacting on their work. if it is impacting on work and people having mental health issues, that is all a
cost to the state. early intervention, appropriate specialist early intervention can prevent all of that. it is an economically sensible decision to take. thank you. you told your mum as an adult. you are in your 20s when you finally told her what had happened to you for all those years between the ages of seven and 14. what did that feel like, telling her? it was very scary. my mother was very warm about it. i can't imagine how devastated she felt. she did express that. she wished she could have done well. i did my best to reassure her that there was only so much you can do as a parent. that it was difficult to come around and tell her. the fact i told her in my mid—20s, i am generally an open person, but with that it was such a closely guarded topic that i couldn't do it. but it was fine, it was fine, but it was ha rd to was fine, it was fine, but it was hard to do. thank you for talking to us hard to do. thank you for talking to us and our audience and i am sure it
will make a massive difference for people. i certainly hope so. thank you, victoria. you can find support on the bbc‘s actionline website at bbc.co.uk/actionline. still to come: as ed sheeran rises above adele in the sunday times rich list, we'll be taking a look at all the big changes this year including the new top ten richest musicians in the uk. and we talk to maverick sabre, the british—irish singer and rapper, who's tackling social issues head on in his music. the government is to cover the £200 million bill of replacing grenfell tower—type cladding on about 150 private blocks in england with a safer alternative following the fire at grenfell tower
in west london, almost two years ago. we arejust coming up to we are just coming up to the anniversary. work at some private properties has stalled because of disputes between leaseholders and freeholders about who should foot the bill. sarah campbell is here. the government has made a u—turn on this? this is the aluminium type cladding, which was used on grenfell tower. we have heard from the inquiry, who have not reported their conclusions yet, but expert after expert said it was partly due to the cladding that the fire spread so quickly, so clearly a huge worry for anyone living in a tower block. we think there are 166 that have still got this aluminium —type cladding on it. a huge worry for them about what will happen. up until now the government has said it should be up to building owners to pay for the replacement, which leads them to pass the cost onto leaseholders, and people have been worried about having to pay thousands of pounds to
get their building repaired. but the government has made a u—turn, as you say. this is whatjames brokenshire, the communities secretary, said on the communities secretary, said on the today programme this morning. the pace of change has not been fast enough. many developers have done the right thing, have stepped in. we expect them to maintain those commitments and how they have done so. but ultimately, what has been driving me is that sense of public safety, and indeed the interests of those living in those buildings caught up in a situation that they didn't know about, they didn't expect. and therefore it is the need to get on, make progress and really see that change is happening, people are safe, feel safe within those buildings, and can do so. iimagine it i imagine it will come as some relief for people living in those kinds of buildings. how long will it ta ke to kinds of buildings. how long will it take to replace the cladding?‘ massive relief. we understand that building owners can registerfor funding from earlyjuly, and then obviously you have got to get the funding and then do the works. two interesting issues. 0bviously that
money will be welcomed. there are companies that have done this work already. what will they be saying? hang on, can we get the money back for this because we have fitted the bill? £200 million sounds like a lot of money but this is an expensive business so there are already questioned today about whether that will be enough. but it will be relief for a lot of people because for the last two years leaseholders have been paying for fire wardens to patrol the building, so a lot of expense and mental stress over the fa ct expense and mental stress over the fact they might be hit with a huge bill, as well as worrying about a catastrophic fire. no doubt welcomed, but probably more to come. thank you. ed sheeran has climed the charts of the uk's richest musicians, doubling his wealth to £160 million in the last year to rise above adele. in 2018, sheeran is thought to have earned more than any other musician
in a single year in history, from a world tour which brought in box office takings of more than £340 million. he is now the 17th richest musician in the uk, while adele lies 22nd with £150 million, having not toured since 2017. she still reins as the wealthiest female recording artist. stormzy makes his first appearance on the list with £16 million. last week he claimed his first ever number one with vossi bop and is gearing up for a headline slot at glastonbury. 0ne direction stars harry styles and niall horan are second and third on the list of rich young musicians. don't be too worried about their former band mates. they're on it too, just a bit lower down. and little mix were the wealthiest women in the young musician list, with the girl band's collective fortune rising £5 million to £45 million. to get more on the list, i've got sinead garvan here with me now.
she is from radio one use beat. nobody would begrudge the success of those musicians who have worked very hard. what is most interesting is that sir paul mccartney has been at number one for quite a long time but he has been overtaken this year by sir andrew lloyd webber. these are astonishing figures. andrew lloyd webber is worth £820 million and there paul mccartney is down 70 million, so i don't know if that is callous investments there, to 750 million, and then after that we have got u2 but that is collective wealth of 500 million. and then the next individual is sir eltonjohn. it is, like, £500 million. that is the big change, and then there is always mickjagger and change, and then there is always mick jagger and keith richards change, and then there is always mickjagger and keith richards from the rolling stones. michael flatley, because of course riverdance is a global phenomenon. you say of
course, but when i looked at that list, i felt course, but when i looked at that list, ifelt gush! riverdance is in the top ten. if you have an irish family like me, you know that he is smashing it worldwide. family like me, you know that he is smashing it worldwidelj family like me, you know that he is smashing it worldwide. i do have to introduced maverick sabre, who is an irish man from county wexford. do you know michael flatley? of course i know you know michael flatley? of course iknow him! you know michael flatley? of course i know him! i say that like he is an extended member of the family! fair enough! we will talk to maverick and just a moment about all sorts of things. touring does impact where you come on that list. absolutely. we have been saying it for quite a few years that artists make their money from touring, not sales of records so much. the thing to remember about ed sheeran is that he doesn't have a huge production cost on his tour. imagine a lady gaga set, all the costumes and everything. it is just him and set, all the costumes and everything. it isjust him and a couple of band members. he is taken quite a lot of the profit from his
tour. and then the rolling stones are consistently touring, so of course their wealth is going up. and stormzy is in there for the first time, making his debut. stormzy is in there for the first time, making his debutlj stormzy is in there for the first time, making his debut. i am not 100% sure but i think he might be the first grime artist to make it in there. i think so. and what a fantastic year for him. going there. i think so. and what a fantastic yearfor him. going into glastonbury in a couple of months, headlining, and also he got his first number one which he was over the moon about. sweet victory. let's get reaction to the musician rich list — and lots of other things going on in music and politics right now from maverick sabre. he is the british—irish singer, songwriter — and a protege of rapper plan b, who took him under his wing and brought him to london. and he knows michael flatley. like plan b, he tackles social issues in his music — and his third album, when i wake up, and latest videos touch on grenfell, misogyny, depression, the traveller community and more.
we'll talk to him about all that in a moment. here's a clip of of glory — his latest video from his new album. # it's in your heart now # let them now this # it's in your heart now # and it feels like # let them now this # it's in your heart now # and it feels like # let them now this # and it feels like glory # told me rivers of gold would come # ifind i find that so uplifting. i don't know if that was the effect you wanted. it was empowering to tell a story. we shot that in ballymun in north dublin. the story ended up...
we were there for two weeks and are lot of friends there i have known over the years. it was just lot of friends there i have known over the years. it wasjust me, the director and the 0p on the ground. director of photography for anyone who wants to know. the story tells itself. interviewing people from the community. it became very specifically about young men and young men's battle with masculinity, battle with mental health and the violence growing up in society, the way it is now. specifically, you spend a lot of time in the traveller immunity. —— community. it is deliberate because you want to get in amongst working—class people? deliberate because you want to get in amongst working-class people? we wa nted in amongst working-class people? we wanted to tell untold irish stories. it's very easy to tell stereotypical stories of the travelling community, working class community to stop somebody like that music so much! we can have it but we need to turn the
volume down a bit. we wanted to tell people's stories from their lives. we are at a time now where so many other people are telling other people's stories and not necessarily ina great people's stories and not necessarily in a great way. it was to put a camera in front of people and let them tell their own story but are there enough people telling white, working—class stories? i don't know. the discussion should be less about are there enough people discussing white working—class stories, it should be are there enough people discussing working—class stories in a truthful form and even the kind of line of question, is that divisive in itself? do you think it is? i think it is. i think we are at a time now where the vision and classes —— where division and classism is being used to manipulate people to fall under a certain ideology. i think it's being used by
the farages of the world to muster up the farages of the world to muster up this division amongst people. there enough untold stories within young men, young women, young working—class, that it should necessarily be about whether a white working stories being told. it should be, is a truthful working—class story being told by working—class story being told by working class people themselves.” wa nt to working class people themselves.” want to pick up on a couple of things. breaking news. danny baker has just been sacked by 5live. he has just been sacked by 5live. he has done a radio show for a number of years. he has tweeted it himself. just got fired from 5live, for the record, it was a red sauce always, that was one of the games he played on that saturday morning show. he had to apologise after a tweet he put out yesterday which showed an old—fashioned put out yesterday which showed an old —fashioned black—and—white photograph of what looked like a house a posh english couple and a chimp, an ape —— looked like a posh
english couple. he said it was satire on the photocall involving meghan and harry and their newborn baby but a lot of people were offended. he deleted it. he apologised but he has nowjust tweeted, "got fired from five live. for the record, it was a red sauce, always". danny baker announcing the news he has been sacked by radio five live after that tweet. your reaction very welcome. send us an e—mail. message me on twitter or. do you ever listen to danny baker?” don't. you talked about nigel farage. do you feel he is responsible for some of the division in this country? i think he is responsible and maybe he knows. he is a career politician that may be has used people's anger to help his own cause. in what way? how any
politician musters up the disillusionment of a certain sector of society or certain community for their own benefit. politics and democracy should be about getting the general people's unifying response together, rather than sectioning off people, angering them, pointing the finger at other people and allowing that to be the way politics is spoken about and run? is he the only one? there are plenty of others and even giving them airtime and saying their names adds to what they want from it. does he not have a point that a lot of leave voters are pretty hacked off? that brexit hasn't been delivered? yeah, but that is what we should look amongst our own politicians that we have elected ourselves. look into europe and the bureaucracy we should look onto ourselves and who we voted in. a couple of years ago
you tweeted, politics affects everything we do, we need to know the politics of our generation, to change the future into the world we wa nt change the future into the world we want for our kids". what did you mean? we need to be active all the time, within our not necessarily deadly discussions with people, because you don't want to be too intense all the time —— not necessarily daily discussions. sorry! no, we shouldn't just wait for big moments like brexit to come up. all of us included. even us speaking about this, myself included. it gets to the point where such a big topic comes up the point where such a big topic comes up that we haven't necessarily done the research ourselves or we haven't been politically minded for the two years previous and suddenly something grabs us as a nation or as a people. and there is a flurry of outrage and ideas where i think if
we we re outrage and ideas where i think if we were more regularly informed and more regularly involved, we would actually have more of a control of a steady progress to change the country. sure. i'm guessing you welcome the kind of school climate strikes on a friday and all that? anything with young people and a bit of resistance and change i think is positive and is what is needed out of young people. that's what they should be doing, leading the change. stormzy, in the sunday times musician which list made his debut for the first time, apparently worth 16 million, worked phenomenally hard, as! 16 million, worked phenomenally hard, as i said earlier, no one would begrudge him that success. does that success make it any harder in your view, for somebody like him to relate to people or not? no. it is down to the individual. i don't think what is in your bank account should dictate how you view the world or how close you are to society or how close you are to speak about society. he's shown that
throughout his whole career. i commend him on that on every level. sometimes when people are so outspoken, the first chance people get to cut them down and knock their intentions or how close they are, because they've got 16 million, they can't speak about the topics that he is speaking about, it's another tool to knock people's characters. you grew up in hackney. i was born in stoke newington. and you move to cou nty wexford stoke newington. and you move to county wexford when you were four? toa county wexford when you were four? to a small town called new ross. and then plan b helped you and brought you to london. could you have made it in county wexford without coming to london? at the time, for me, i was doing irish hip—hop at the time andi was doing irish hip—hop at the time and i was producing a lot. for me, i felt there was a ceiling on ireland at the time. i met plan b when i was 15, i was supporting him at the time. i met plan b when i was 15, iwas supporting him in at the time. i met plan b when i was 15, i was supporting him in dublin. icame 15, i was supporting him in dublin. i came over to london and he helped me out, gave me studio time and a
place to stay and advice. just last night, i went to an irish hip—hop gig in london. a young group called canon! soft boy records, they are a great collective from an area in dublin —— called soft boy records. it isa dublin —— called soft boy records. it is a really good time for irish music. maybe because it has been accepted a bit more internationally. especially in the irish hip—hop side of things. it has changed since ten yea rs of things. it has changed since ten years ago when i started putting out music in ireland. if you hadn't have gotten music in ireland. if you hadn't have gotte n into music in ireland. if you hadn't have gotten into music, what would you have done? we spoke about this earlier on. i don't know if i would have got into politics... would you? iam have got into politics... would you? i am intrigued have got into politics... would you? iam intrigued by have got into politics... would you? i am intrigued by the way society works and for me, i feel like through my music, i like to put out a message and the way i feel about society and myself and the world i see around me into my music. 0ften, if there wasn't music in my life, i would have liked to have put that passion into something else, to help
people. in the future? you never know, we will see. thank you so much for coming on the programme. good luck with the album. we appreciate your time. thank you. thank you for your messages about the sacking of danny baker. he tweeted in the last few minutes that temper might have sacked him. he did a saturday morning show for the last few years —— that five live had sacked him. he worked on radio london. this person says absolutely correct to sack danny baker, race are masking as humour. two masking. my my radio can now be turned on, on a saturday morning one person says. joe says he has been fired and it is only a matter of time and budget texts this, that matt and roger... i won't read that one. thank you. from that small snapshot, number of people seeming to think it is the
right decision —— and roger. he tweeted a racially offensive tweets toa tweeted a racially offensive tweets to a lot of people. he apologised but still he says he's been sacked five live by. police officers and staff are almost five times more likely to have post—traumatic stress disorder than members of the general public. a study by the university of cambridge suggests that it's far more common than previously thought, and that more than half of those surveyed said they didn't have enough time to process incidents before being sent back out on the next call. researchers analysed responses from nearly 17,000 serving officers and operational staff. it showed that about 90% of police staff have suffered suffered trauma on the job. with one in five experiencing some form of ptsd symptoms. it involves reliving distressing events through nightmares and flashbacks, as well as intense states of hypervigilance. however, less than a third of those who showed any of these signs of the disorder were aware of it.
let's speak now to antony colton, he retired from the police force last week as a result of his ptsd, and to toni white, she has ptsd and now works with the police on mental health training. thank you for talking to us. anthony, you retired last week. how do you feel about being forced into doing that because of ptsd? good morning. initially, it was very hard to take. i signed up for life. to serve as a police officer. and to be injured in the line of duty and supper with a mental health issue was extremely difficult to process —— and suffer with. it was quite devastating for me as a person. it was very hard. and how do you feel about the fact that you have effectively had to leave a job that you love? again, it's been very hard
to take. for me, i had no plan b, i was always going to be a police officer until the day i retired. it's turned everything upside down. it's turned everything upside down. it's time to my family, my career aspirations upside down. —— it turned my family. it's very difficult to process still. what led to the ptsd? apparently, i had... i am aware! to the ptsd? apparently, i had... i am aware i had underlying issues from my time in the army. but i was able to deal with them. i was having flashbacks and things like that but i was still functioning. i managed tojoin two police i was still functioning. i managed to join two police forces, actually, after leaving the army. the final couple of straws was in 2013, i injured my spine tipping over a fence. i got fully fit against the advice of potentially my surgeon.
but i managed it. 2015, i was involved in a car accident at work, from which the fibre grade, the ambulance service, cut to me at —— the fire brigade. the moment i took my earpiece out, i knew something had changed inside of me. —— cut me out. from that moment on, things got worse and worse at my mental health deteriorated. in 2017, i suddenly found myself in a really bad place. experiencing the full force of ptsd. goodness me. let me bring in toni, who has ptsd and now works with the police on mental health training. good morning and thank you for being on our programme. let's address this because some will say see in trauma and witnessing trauma, experiencing it yourself as a police officer, thatis it yourself as a police officer, that is just part of the job. what do you say to that, toni? it is part of the job. you can't avoid trauma
jobs, unfortunately. but i don't think people outside of the job realise the rele ntlessness think people outside of the job realise the relentlessness of appearing... being surrounded by trauma in much the same way we say we can cope and we are resilient from death, because we are not always surrounded by it. if somebody dies, we grieve for them, we have time to process it, because we are not inherently surrounded by death. but if you are constantly going to jobs... let's face it, you are calling 999 because you're facing an extremely terrifying or upsetting situation. the police are going to the most upsetting, traumatic incidents as possible. and then we are asking them to compartmentalise that and go from job to job to job and not giving them the time to unpack their emotions. if you can't unpack their emotions. if you can't unpack them in your own time, it becomes that pandora's box. what i am finding that a lot of officers that i work with, but like how
antony was saying, you put on that stiff upper lip, that stoicism. you try and crack on and what actually happens is that your pandora's box actually opens when you least expect it causing devastation instead of giving you the time to unpack it yourself. is it relevant that there can bea yourself. is it relevant that there can be a kind of... you've got to be strong, you are a police officer, potentially, match show, all those kind of cliches. but some of those are true. is that relevant —— macho. a aretruelg thaw