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tv   BBC News at Five  BBC News  October 24, 2019 5:00pm-6:01pm BST

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whether to vu—nw— itsn fult ii‘ul‘ei uk vu—lu— 1ll lll 1l-‘1l 11k tomorrow whether to grant the uk a three month extension but both the conservative party and labour are facing divisions about the way forward. the prime minister spoke to journalists just a little while ago. this is what he had to say. you have just finished the cabinet, what have you decided? what we have decided as we have a way forward for this country and the eu. we have a great deal on brexit and for the first time in three and a half years parliament voted to endorse a way out of the eu, the video i was able to do with their friends and partners, but unfortunately they also voted to delay final approval of that endorsement. what that means, if this parliament is anything to go by, that delay could go on for a very long time and i'm afraid it looks as though our eu friends are going to respond to parliament's request i have an extension, which i really don't want
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at all. so the way to get this done, the way to get brexit done as i think to be reasonable with parliament, say, if the genuinely wa nt parliament, say, if the genuinely want more time to study this excellent deal, they can have it, but they have to agree to a general election on december 12. that is the way forward because this parliament has been going on for a long time without a majority. it is refusing to deliver brexit, it is impossible to deliver brexit, it is impossible to deliver brexit, it is impossible to deliver legislation and it is time, frankly, that the opposition summoned up the nerve to submit themselves to the judgment of our collective force, the people of the uk. but if your deal is so great as you claim on death parliament has endorsed it, which they haven't, they have just agreed to go ahead and have scrutiny, why then try to ram this through with an election? you could go on a more conventional timetable and give parliament the
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timetable and give parliament the time to go through the levels of scrutiny and do it that way? that is a very good point. we are going to get them all the time they want between now and the dissolution of parliament to do that scrutiny, and thatis parliament to do that scrutiny, and that is much more than i think some of them have been asking for. it is more than i think philip hammond was asking for. this is a big chunk of time. it is interesting, in the debate on tuesday about brexit, everybody saying we need more time to study this deal, actually the labour party couldn't even find enough speakers, let alone new ideas to bring to the table. we have had three and a half years to discuss this and we have been very reasonable. we are saying if you genuinely want more time you can have it, here it is, but the condition for that is that we all agreed to go for a general election oi'i agreed to go for a general election on december 12. the reason for having that deadline is because
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otherwise i don't think the people of this country are going to believe that parliament is really going to do it by that deadline, because they spent three and a half years of failing to do it, so let's get it done and come out of the eu. but prime minister, it is not standard behaviour. you are essentially trying to blackmail parliament with the threat of an election in order to ram through your bill. this is the biggest thing this country has done for decades and decades. you could just say, fine, let's have as long as it takes to get through this line by line long as it takes to get through this line byline in long as it takes to get through this line by line in parliament. would not not be the responsible thing to do? we have had three and a half years. not looking at this bill. much of this bill is familiar to parliamentarians and when they had the opportunity to debate the actual deal with they couldn't find enough speakers to fill the debate. this is something that has been super master
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catered. —— masticated. what we are saying is that there is going to be more time now allocated for all mps to come together and look at it, and starting from now, starting from tonight if necessary right the way through to when parliament would rise on november six, there is a long period to debate and discuss the provisions in this withdrawal agreement, but what the people want to know is if there is that extra time, then this time parliament really means it. it really well get behind the deal, it really well put it through. on the norfolk to create the deadline that is credible and everybody's mines, then there must be that hard stop of a general election. you have tried to get an election. you have tried to get an election before and failed. what makes you think the opposition will vote your way this time? they could
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just keep you hostage? they could but it would be morally incredible if they do so because the labour party and jeremy corbyn have called repeatedly and endlessly for a general election. they have called foran general election. they have called for an election to be delayed until there is a deal on brexit, until there is a deal on brexit, until there is a deal on brexit, until there is an extension on brexit. they have got their heart's desire and now is the time to be reasonable and now is the time to be reasonable and agree that with the extra time that would be available, a considerable chunk of time, for parliament to get together, mps across the house to come together and look at this bill properly, get it done, but i agree also that we can then go to a general election. and i would be very happy to campaign on this to you and i think it isa campaign on this to you and i think it is a great deal for our country and take the country forward and i would be very happy to campaign on all the things we are doing as a one nation conservative government to build a great future for the whole of the uk. but if mps do not agree
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to your demand for an election, what will you do? that is a very good point andl will you do? that is a very good point and i am afraid that it will be clear that if jeremy point and i am afraid that it will be clear that ifjeremy corbyn and the labour party refused to go along with this deal and do not accept either that brexit can be done, refused to accept that there should be more time to deliberate brexit, thatis be more time to deliberate brexit, that is what they have been saying, or that there can be a general election, then you have to ask what is the purpose that they think they are serving... but what would you do? what we would do, to be absolutely clear with you, we would campaign day after day for the people of this country to be released from subjection to a parliament that has outlived its usefulness, that has fulfilled its function, that is refusing to get brexit done and refusing to advance any of the fantastic one nation agenda that we set out in the queen's speech, and it is time frankly for this parliament to wake way for a new fresh parliament which
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can deliver the priorities of the british people. some of your parliament don't want an election? we are giving more time for the bill and that is the beauty of what we are proposing. but the only way, credibly, to offer more time is for the people of this country and parliament to understand that this time there really is the deadline. prime minister, thank you. that was borisjohnson prime minister, thank you. that was boris johnson speaking to prime minister, thank you. that was borisjohnson speaking to our political editor saying essentially that he wants mps to agree to a general election on december 12 which would give them more time to discuss his brexit deal. let's get the latest from parliament now with our chief political correspondent vicki young. she is at westminster for us. you have been listening to that interview, is that a bold move by the prime minister of one of the few moves he might have made at this point? he is trapped and that is the truth of it. he wanted the uk to
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leave the eu on 31st october and this is him admitting really that it will not happen as most people have thought. he says he is offering a lot more time for mps to debate the bell and actually he is offering a few extra days, not very many, maybe six extra days for mp5, but crucially they would have to vote on monday for an election on 12th december, so before you get to the point of debating the bill, they have to agree to a general election. he said he will put that motion down presumably today for a vote on monday. as we know, that would mean two thirds of mps have to vote for it, 434 mp5, and that would require labour votes, so i suppose the big question is, would labour go along with this? i have not spoken to them and they will only have just found out about this themselves and i cannot see why they would. they have talked about wanting a general
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election but they would have to agree on monday to an election not knowing whether they are going and what this bill having passed or failed. we also have to wait and see what the eu say about a delay to brexit and extension. everyone now accepting that there will be one, borisjohnson accepting that there will be one, boris johnson tacitly admitting that there will have to be a dilated brexit, one that he doesn't want, but never the less that is going to happen. he wants a general election and he wants the bell to go through but it is not in his hands. i spoke to one senior backbench conservative who said that borisjohnson is pretending he has power in this relationship with parliament but he doesn't have any power. he is trying to look like he is going on the front foot but it comes down to the votes of mps in the vote of the opposition here. what he will try to do on monday, if labour decides not to vote, he will try to say they are running scared from the electorate and we will see what labour says in the next few minutes. let'sjust
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examine the possibilities. if we come to monday and borisjohnson doesn't get his vote through, what are the options then? he doesn't have a very many and this is the point. he has not got a majority, he is 23 short of a majority. there are other routes he can go down for a general election. there is not only the fixed—term parliaments act for which you need two thirds of mps, he could bring forward a one line bell saying we will have an election on 12th december. problem with a bill for them as it can get amended and we already know the snp and others would like to amend that spell so that 16 and 17 euros could vote in that 16 and 17 euros could vote in that election. it is a route fraught with difficulty. ——17—year—olds. he could bring a vote of confidence in himself but that is a very strange situation to be nfc is urging his own mps to vote against him to say
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they don't have confidence, so the best route to an election is to persuade mps, persuade two thirds of mps to back him. i spoke to lots of labour and tory mps today and there are labour and tory mps today and there a re lots of labour and tory mps today and there are lots of conservative mps, particularly the one nation conservatives, who are very against the idea of a general election. they think you should get the bill through first. they are confident that those mps who voted that second reading of the bell, that enough of them would stick by it to get it through parliament. they want him to do that first of all and they are suggesting he would try that but only if they vote for an election beforehand, so let's wait and see what labour try to do but lots of labour mps what labour try to do but lots of labourmps do what labour try to do but lots of labour mps do not want an election, some very concerned about the opinion polls. they think they would lose d oze ns opinion polls. they think they would lose dozens of seats and of course pose can change and they certainly changed in 2017 but labour think it is different this time around. even ifjeremy corbyn were to vote for an
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election that is not entirely clear that all his mps would follow him. and we know that there are divisions as you said in labour as well as there are among the conservatives. is there anywhere according to your own mathematical calculations that borisjohnson could secure enough support from the labour benches to get his election if he puts it to on monday? he needs jeremy corbyn to agree to it and jeremy corbyn to whip his mps to vote for it. the liberal democrats have made it very clear to me that they would vote for a general election once the eu have said that they will give a three—month delay brexit a three month extension to the end of january, because the liberal democrats like a lot of other mps do not want to the end of january, because the liberal democrats like a lot of other mps do not want a new deal brexit so they do not want that to happen. i saw was that extension guaranteed by the eu than the liberal democrats would vote for it, the snp have told me the word. the
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dup might as well vote for a general election, although they have not no official word on that. it is all down tojeremy corbyn and labour and you have just got to ask yourself, what is in it for labour to vote for an election not knowing whether a deal would have gone through a deal won't have gone through. the government will be very quick to criticise labour if they don't go foran criticise labour if they don't go for an election. they will point to jeremy corbyn having said time and time again that once the extension in place and know the eyes of the table that he would go for an election. we will have to say what labour come up with but there are those obviously very close to jeremy corbyn who think they should go into a general election that they will be confident that he would buck those opinion polls and buck the trend and when, but there are others in the labour party who are very nervous about that. and just looking again at what boris johnson has about that. and just looking again at what borisjohnson has been saying, mps must agree to a december 12 general election. if he has
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conceded the point that the deadline of october 31 has been busted and it is no longer a deadline, why so eager to have a general election?” think it is purely because he knows the embarrassment that is because he has broken that promise. he said over and over again, i would rather die ina over and over again, i would rather die in a ditch than ask for the dilated brexit. he keeps talking about the parliament delay but until i think yesterday, ministers were still saying we are leaving at the end of october with or without a deal. that simply is not going to happen, so for him, there is an issue and he obviously is willing to give a slight delay of a week or so to say if you get my bell through i will give you a bit of extra time to do that, and what they are trying to weigh up, the conservatives, is whether it is better to go into an election having delivered on brexit oi’ election having delivered on brexit
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or not. the problem is that brexit hasn't happened will nigel farage's brexit party be a real threat to them and all of this? if they have delivered to brexit and they wait until the spring, there are other issues they fear, and tory circles, thatjeremy corbyn may no longer be leader and before people start shouting at the tv, that is conservatives saying that they think jeremy corbyn is i hope to them, but all of this completely uncertain. many thanks, stay there. we will ta ke many thanks, stay there. we will take you straight to the house of commons now where a vote is taking place on the queen's speech. noes to the left, 311. ayes to the right, 293, noes, 311, so the noes habit. what you are just watching was a
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vote on the labour amendment to the queen's speech. that is something that has just been rejected by mps bya number of that has just been rejected by mps by a number of votes, hopefully it will come up on the screen very shortly. this is a series of votes that will happen on the queen's speech and we are expecting the vote on the main motion, which is on the government's programme of legislation, to be very tight indeed. i will bring you our chief political correspondent vicky young again. so that was the ayes on 293 and noes 311. just interpret that? that was jeremy corbyn‘s amendment to the queen's speech, labour saying they don't accept what is in the queen's speech. they were particularly unhappy that housing wasn't mentioned. they were also suggesting that it was bad for the
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economy, so that isjeremy corbyn, labour's amendment defeated as you would expect. they are moving on now, iam not would expect. they are moving on now, i am not entirely sure if this is the snp amendment, so that amendment has been selected and they are particularly exercised about climate change saying there was not enoughin climate change saying there was not enough in the queen's speech about that. we would expect that to be defeated as well and then we will move defeated as well and then we will m ove o nto defeated as well and then we will move onto the main vote on queen's speech. that vote we are expecting to be pretty tight? we expect it would be. we keep talking about the fixed parliaments act because that is having a huge effect. in the old days that the government lost on the queen's speech it would be seen as a matter of confidence. when it happened before the prime minister is resigned the next day. that will not happen but even if they do not lose that it doesn't change things in the sense that there is no obligation on the prime minister to stand down, so the fixed—term parliaments act means that it is more secure for the prime minister but given that he wants an election
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thatis but given that he wants an election that is actually working against them at the moment. are we in extraordinary times?” them at the moment. are we in extraordinary times? i think you can safely say we are. there is a queen's speech vote happening and everybody is talking about something com pletely everybody is talking about something completely different!” everybody is talking about something completely different! i think for the time being, just hang on, we will be back to you very shortly. for people who are justjoining us, the prime minister borisjohnson has given an interview to our political editor laura kuenssberg in which he has said that mps can be given more time to debate has brexit deal, but they must and exchange agree to a general election to be held on december 12. as vicky has been explaining, part of his reason for working at that way as he doesn't himself, he needs the consent of parliament in order to have the election called at that particular time, because of the fixed—term
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parliaments act, the power that the prime minister used to have an order to trigger a general election has been taken away. so vicky was just telling us that this is effectively the prime minister admitting that the prime minister admitting that the brexit deadline of october 31 has effectively gone and he has said to mps that they can have more time to mps that they can have more time to reflect and consider his deal, but that is in exchange for an election on december 12. we can go back now to our chief political correspondent, vicky young, who are still there and central lobby for us. still there and central lobby for us. just tell us a little bit more about what will be happening this evening? these votes going on in house of commons about the queen's speech and what will be interesting is whether there is any reaction from labour, not about that part about this proposal from from labour, not about that part about this proposalfrom boris johnson to say to mp5, you can have another go at getting the bill and
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the deal, has brexit deal, through parliament. i will give you a little extra time but before that happens you have to agree to an election on 12 december, because borisjohnson knows it is not in his gift, that he can't simply call an election like he used to do in the old days. the fixed—term parliaments act means two thirds of mps have to vote to trigger a general election. he would need labour votes. jeremy corbyn will have to decide whether he goes for the general election on those terms. i think they will probably turn around and say we are not going to do it on those terms, that is borisjohnson to do it on those terms, that is boris johnson trying to do it on those terms, that is borisjohnson trying to push is on to something all on his terms and we are not going to do it. he also knows, jeremy corbyn, that he has a lot of labour mps, dozens of them, particularly those who want a second referendum, who might not vote for a general election. their push has a lwa ys general election. their push has always been we want a second referendum. we want to do that first and then have a general election. a
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lot of them are still saying that now, that that is the way they want to go. it is interesting talking to liberal democrats who also want a second referendum but they say it is pretty clear in this parliament it is not going to happen. the numbers are not there to get that on the only way you will get to that is if you change the arithmetic in this place, have a general election and see what happens. that is why the lib dems would be more willing to vote for a general election. whether they want to do it on the terms borisjohnson is they want to do it on the terms boris johnson is offering they want to do it on the terms borisjohnson is offering is another matter but a senior backbench conservative said to me, on hearing this, his immediate reaction was that it this, his immediate reaction was thatitis this, his immediate reaction was that it is completely ridiculous. borisjohnson is that it is completely ridiculous. boris johnson is pretending that it is completely ridiculous. borisjohnson is pretending he has power in this relationship with parliament but he does not. you can come out and say he is on the front foot but the actual reality is that borisjohnson is foot but the actual reality is that boris johnson is for the first time admitting that he will not be able to follow through with that promise he made repeatedly that the uk would leave the eu on 31st october with or without a deal. it hasn't happened
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that he hasn't been able to deliver on itand that he hasn't been able to deliver on it and he knows it will be for him a huge problem going into a general election because the brexit party, you can bet, are going to be saying that over and over again. fascinating stuff. iam sure i am sure will be back to her later in the programme. for anybodyjust joining us now, the prime minister borisjohnson has joining us now, the prime minister boris johnson has given joining us now, the prime minister borisjohnson has given an interview to our political editor laura kuenssberg in which he says that mps can have more time to discuss has brexit deal but only if they agree toa brexit deal but only if they agree to a general election on december 12. let's hear what he had to say. so you have just finished the cabinet, what have you decided? what we have decided is that we have a way forward for this country and the eu. we have a great deal on brexit, as you know for the first time in three and a half years parliament voted to endorse a way out of the eu, the deal with her friends and
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partners, but unfortunately they also voted to delay the final approval of the deal they endorsed and what that means i am afraid this if this parliament is anything to go by, that delay could go on for a very long time. it looks as though i we re your very long time. it looks as though i were your friends are going to respond to parliament's request by having an extension which i really don't want at all. so the way to get this done, the way to get brexit done, is to be reasonable with parliament and to say, if they genuinely want more time to study this excellent deal, they can have it, but they have to agree to a general election on december 12. that is the way forward. this parliament has been going on for a long time without a majority. it is refusing to deliver brexit, it is impossible to deliver legislation.
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it is time, frankly, that the opposition summed up the nerve to submit themselves to the judgment of our collective bass, which is the people of the uk. if you're deal is so great as you claim and parliament housein so great as you claim and parliament house in dorset, which they haven't, they have just agreed to go ahead and have scrutiny, why then try to ram this through without an election? you could go on a more conventional timetable and get parliament time to do standard scrutiny and do it that way? that is a very good point. we are going to give them all the time they want between now and the dissolution of parliament to do that scrutiny, that is much more than i think some of them have been asking for. morel think than philip hammond. that is a big chunk of time and it is interesting actually in the debate on tuesday, about brexit. everybody saying we need more time to study
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the steel. actually, the labour party couldn't even find enough speakers. there are native speakers let alone new ideas to bring to the table. we have had three and a half years to discuss this and we are being very reasonable. we are saying if you genuinely want more time you can have it, here it is, but the condition for that is that we all agreed to go for a general election on december 12. the reason for having that deadline is because otherwise i don't think the people of this country are going to believe that parliament is really going to do it by that deadline, because they have spent three and a half years failing to do it so let's get it done and let's come out of the eu. but, prime minister, it is not standard behaviour. you are essentially trying to blackmail parliament with the threat of an election in order to ram through your bill. this is the biggest thing this country has done for decades and decades. you could just say, fine, let's have as long as it takes
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to get through this line by line and parliament. would not not to be the responsible thing to do? we have had three and a half years. not looking at this bill. most of this bill is familiar to parliamentarians and when they had the ability to look at the actual deal with the other day they couldn't find enough speakers to fill the debate. this is something that has been super masticated in our democracy. there are big changes to the bill. big changes between your deal in the previous. so what we are saying is that there is going to be more time now allocated for all mps to come together and look at it, starting from now, starting from tonight if necessary, right the way through to when parliament would rise on november six, there is a long period to debate and discuss the provisions in this withdrawal agreement, but i think what people will want to know is if there is that extra time then
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this time, parliament really means it and really well get behind the deal and really well put it through, and in orderto deal and really well put it through, and in order to create a deadline thatis and in order to create a deadline that is credible and everybody's mines, then there must be that hard stop of a general election. just finally, you try to get an election before and failed. what makes you think the opposition will vote your way this time, they could just keep you hostage? they could, but i think it would be morally incredible if they were to do so. after all this isa labour they were to do so. after all this is a labour party with jeremy corbyn that called repeatedly for a general election. they called for an election. they called for an election to be delayed until there was a deal on brexit, until there was a deal on brexit, until there was an extension on brexit. they have got their heart's desire and now is the time to be reasonable, to ee, now is the time to be reasonable, to agree, that was the extra time that would be available, that's a good chunk of time, for parliament to get
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together, mps across the house to come together, look at this bill properly, get it done, but i agree also that we can then go to a general election. i would also that we can then go to a general election. iwould be also that we can then go to a general election. i would be very happy to campaign on this deal, i think it is a great deal for the country, it takes our country forward. i would country, it takes our country forward. iwould be happy country, it takes our country forward. i would be happy to campaign on all the things we are doing as a one nation conservative government to build a great future for the uk. if mps do not agree to your demand for an election, what will you do? that is a very good point but i am afraid it will be clear that ifjeremy corbyn and the labour party refuse to go along with the steel and do not accept either that brexit can be done, refused to acce pt that brexit can be done, refused to accept that there should be more time to deliberate brexit, that is what they would be saying, or that there can be a general election, then you have to ask what is the purpose that they think they are serving... but what would you do? what we would do is to be absolutely
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clear with you as we would campaign day after day after day for the people of this country to be released from subjection to a parliament that has outlived its usefulness and has fulfilled its function and there is refusing to get brexit done, is refusing to advance any of the fantastic one nation agenda but we set out in the queen's speech, and it is time frankly for this parliament to make way for a new fresh parliament that can deliver the priorities of the british people. some of your cabinet members don't want the election? but we are giving more time for the bill and that is the beauty of what we are proposing. but the only way credibly to offer more time is for the people of this country and for parliament to understand that this time is really is a deadline. prime minister, thank you. so that was the prime minister talking to our political editor laura kuenssberg a little better layer and this is a big breaking story of the hour. the
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prime minister saying to mps you can have more time to debate the brexit deal but that will be in exchange for a general election on december 12. we have also learned more from laura kuenssberg who says the prime minister has written tojeremy corbyn, you can see the letter, challenging him to a general election on december 12, and the government is expected to table a motion for a vote tonight on that december 12 election. in the letter, the prime minister sets out three scenarios, there is his preferred option which is a short extension from the eu, the eu is still to pronounce on what sort of extension they will offer on the brexit negotiations. that short extension should be until the middle of november or 30th november, and in which case, he urgesjeremy corbyn to vote with the parliament to pass the brexit legislation, and then he sets out to other options, the third of which is that if the labour party
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doesn't agree to an election then the brexit legislation won't be brought back to parliament and number ten would instead ask mps to vote on having an election day after day! with more, let's get the latest from a chief political correspondent vicky young. another vote under way so mps are dashing off to vote. you wa nt so mps are dashing off to vote. you want a second referendum so presumably you don't want a general election? no, and this is typical borisjohnson, he is breaking his pledge today and is trying to change these subject by trying to get the media to focus on a christmas election? yc not pursuing that if he is confident and it? let's bring it back and debated and talk a general election then but not as a smoke screen election then but not as a smoke screen to the other thing is, lots of people will say, hang
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the other thing is, lots of people will say, hang on, the other thing is, lots of people will say, hang on, he the other thing is, lots of people will say, hang on, he doesn't the other thing is, lots of people will say, hang on, he doesn't have the other thing is, lots of people will say, hang on, he doesn't have a majority. you are not allowing him to govan. he has every right to be able to go to the people and say, here is my deal, let's have a general election. he got a majority of 34 his deal this week. he is delaying brexit, not parliament. he is doing it, but he doesn't have the right under the fixed—term parliaments act just to call an election when he wants to. that is not in his gift, and i hope very much that my own party leadership won't fall into this track. the vast majority of labour mps think we should sort brexit first, either through a referendum were getting this deal through, and then have a general election as the word suggests on general things, all of the other things people in the country care about, not the single issue of brexit. the truth is, there are not the numbers for a referendum either, are there? it is never going to happen with this parliament.” there? it is never going to happen with this parliament. i think that when you are facing all the other alternatives, having been exhausted here, there are enough labour mps and moderate conservatives who have so and moderate conservatives who have so far not supported a referendum who, faced with the absence of any alternative, would do to get a majority for it, yes. i will let you
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go and vote, ben bradshaw from labour. we will have to see what jeremy corbyn says about all of this, whether he will say to his mps that they should vote for a general election. it is an borisjohnson's terms, and i'm not sure he will do that. indeed, vicki. and alongside this big breaking news about the prime minister'schallenge, if you like, to parliament, there is something else going on todayjust behind you? the minor event of a vote on the queen's speech! just explain what is going on right now. yes, it it seems a long time ago, the queen speech set out a programme of government that borisjohnson out a programme of government that boris johnson wants to out a programme of government that borisjohnson wants to introduce. he is also saying he wants a general election, so it could end up being one of the shortest parliamentary sessions in history, but that is what they are voting on right now. who knows? i think the dup are supporting the government, and they might well get it through, but because of the fixed—term parliaments act, it does mean in
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some ways, it does not matter. it would obviously be very embarrassing for borisjohnson would obviously be very embarrassing for boris johnson if would obviously be very embarrassing for borisjohnson if the government does not win in the programme it wa nts to does not win in the programme it wants to put through, but on the other hand, it doesn't really have any consequences in terms of him having to resign like it would have donein having to resign like it would have done in the old days. we will see if he can sneak through on this one, but as we say, all attention really turning to what he has had today, which is that he is willing to go beyond the deadline that he himself talked about a lot of the 31st of october, he is willing to go beyond that and give mps more time to consider his deal, up to the 6th of november, if they agree on monday to a general election in december 12. 0k, ok, vicky. thanks for that. and the numbers are tight for the government, aren't they? just explain to viewers why this is such a close—run thing. yes, to explain it, the fixed—term parliaments act, brought in by the liberal democrat conservative coalition in 2010, was to create stability, to stop the prime
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minister at the time, david cameron, saying, i will have an election right now. they brought that in, meaning they can be no election for five years, so that means the only way that can be overturned as two thirds of mps vote for it. that is 434 mp5. of course, borisjohnson has nowhere near 434 mp5, even if the snp and liberal democrats were to vote for a general election if they said they would. if the dup we re they said they would. if the dup were to vote for it, he still needs labour mps to vote for it. so all eyes now will be onjeremy corbyn, whether he thinks, yes, let's go for a general election on these terms. but the problem for him is, he has to agree to this on monday, not knowing what the outcome of debate on that brexit deal, that bill would be. so i think they would argue that they would be going into an election really blind, not knowing what they we re really blind, not knowing what they were voting for, and as you head there from ben bradshaw, there are dozens and dozens of labour mps who wa nt dozens and dozens of labour mps who want another referendum on brexit. they want to campaign to remain in that referendum. they think the
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labour party should be concentrating on that rather than going for a general election. so even ifjeremy corbyn were to say to his party, we have decided we are going to vote on monday for a general election, i think there would be a lot of them that would refuse to go along with that. it is notjust about the referendum. many of them are worried about losing their seats. they are looking at those opinion polls, even though they are not always right, they were wrong in 2017. a lot of them are looking at that thinking, i might well lose my seat in the general election, so they will be very, very reluctant to vote for something that puts them out of a job. and inevitably, we focus on the two main parties, but what about the smaller parties in this equation? what about the liberal democrats and the snp? the liberal democrats are very, very keen on a general election. they think they would do very well in all of this, but especially if it is a brexit election. they think they
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have a unique position, saying that if they were elected as the government, they would revoke article 50, stop brexit altogether. they also say they would push for a second referendum. so they think they can pick up a lot of seats in they can pick up a lot of seats in the main areas of the country. so they are pretty keen on going for it as soon as they are pretty keen on going for it as soon as possible. the snp are in the same boat. they say they would also like a general election. however, crucially, for both of them, only when the eu has agreed to that brexit extension till the end of january. if that were to be put in place, and we expect to hearfrom the eu and the next couple of days, maybe tomorrow, and i think the snp and liberal democrats would vote for it. i spoke to one dup mp earlier who said they have not discussed it but he thinks they would vote for a general election. they obviously hate the brexit deal borisjohnson has agreed and refused to back him in all of that. so we have to see. but as i say, those numbers are not enough on their own. plus, add in a lot of independent conservatives. those who have been booted out of the party with no prospect of coming
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back probably don't want a general election either, because they would be unlikely to win their seats. so the numbers are not looking good for borisjohnson the numbers are not looking good for boris johnson and that the numbers are not looking good for borisjohnson and that he can persuadejeremy borisjohnson and that he can persuade jeremy corbyn borisjohnson and that he can persuadejeremy corbyn to go for this. —— unless he can persuade jeremy corbyn to go for this. so we take away from this that essentially the prime minister has given away his promise of brexit do ordie on given away his promise of brexit do or die on october the 31st? and thereafter, we simply cannot read what is going to happen? yes, and i think what is interesting is, even yesterday, cabinet ministers were on the airwaves saying we will leave in october the 31st, with or without a deal, even though everyone else was going, that is blatantly not going to happen now, because of course, because of the benn act, named after hilary benn, that forced boris johnson to write that letter to the eu asking for a delay to brexit. it was not something he wanted to do, but by law, he had to do it, and there was lots of chat about whether
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there was lots of chat about whether there was lots of chat about whether there was some way he could wriggle out of that law, lots of speculation about how he might do that. it didn't happen. in the end, he wrote the letter. the eu are now going to come back to say whether they agree to that or not. we don't know what they will do, but i think the expectation is that it will be a three—month delay till the end of january, and you can bet that going into a general election, nigel farah raj in the brexit party will be repeating time and time again, showing borisjohnson repeating time and time again, showing boris johnson making repeating time and time again, showing borisjohnson making that promise and saying, he has not delivered on all of that, he has broken a promise. —— nigel farage. so borisjohnson will go into the election saying, here's my deal, vote for me, i will make sure brexit gets done. but there is no doubt he has not been able to deliver on that promise. once again, many thanks. back to you very shortly, i am sure. so that is our main news this evening, that the prime minister boris johnson our main news this evening, that the prime minister borisjohnson has told mps that they can have more time to debate his brexit deal, but that in exchange, he has to say yes toa that in exchange, he has to say yes to a general election in december
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the 12th. we go straight back to vicky young now. i am told she has somebody that she is going to be able to talk to about. are we in a position to come back to you, vicky? i think we probably are. yes, i think we are. the voting has happened. i have anna soubry with me now. what do you make of this offer from boris johnson? he is playing silly beggars with the future of our country. there is no way that i will support this. he brought the bill m, support this. he brought the bill in, it passed at second reading. he had a ridiculous and irresponsible timetable. he could have gone away and done a proper deal with the opposition chief whip so we properly scrutinised it. this is the most important piece of legislation, i think, in generations, with huge applications for generations to come. he can still do that, in what you don't do is dissolve parliament at the same time you are trying to consider this incredibly important piece of legislation, at the same
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time you are running a campaign for a general election, crashing into christmas. he is playing silly games with our country, and it is not acceptable. what we now need to do is get the bill back, let's have the proper amendments tabled, the proper scrutiny. we can truncate it... how long do you think you would need?” think it is a couple of weeks, but it has got to go in the lords as well. these things must be done. we we re well. these things must be done. we were all prepared to sit tomorrow, saturday, sunday, into next week, again, anotherweekend. we saturday, sunday, into next week, again, another weekend. we are prepared to sit late to do it properly. you know my solution to this crisis. it is not a general election. it will not solve anything. the only way to solve the crisis is to have that confirmatory referendum. and there is a majority in the house of commons for that confirmatory referendum. are you sure about that? everything else hasn't fallen. there are not the numbers for a referendum. with respect, i sit and talk to people who are my fellow colleagues in the
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house of commons, and i know that in the event, because this is truly a dreadful deal, and there are a lot of people really unhappy, notjust the dup. it is a dreadful deal. but if it falls, then there are a number of people who, at that moment, would say, right, the only way forward now is to get it back for that confirmatory referendum, because they know that a general election won't solve anything. if you look at the polls, we are more likely to get another hung parliament. a general election —— the clue is in the title. general election. it will not solve brexit. isn't this a bit of a ridiculous situation? we have you,, jeremy corbyn, plus others, arguing for more time for a bill you are not going to back? no, i am so sorry about this. this bill can be amended, and one amendment i am going to support... we just need to go to the commons for the result of the vote on the queen speech. here it is. the ayes to the right, 310. the noes
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to the left, 294. so the ayes have it. the ayes have it. unlock. order! we will take a business statement now. i think we should just listen to this business statement from the leader of the commons. this could be about the election motion. thank you, mr speaker. having made one earlier, i knew the house could not wait for another statement from me. i tried to make a short statement this evening regarding monday's business. before the house considers the second reading of the environment bill, members will have an opportunity to debate and approve an opportunity to debate and approve a motion relating to an early parliamentary general election. the business for the rest of next week
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remains as i announced earlier. shadow leader, valerie vaz. thank you, mr speaker, and can i thank the leader for making the statement. mr speaker, tomorrow, we will find out what extension has been granted. we opposed the prime minister'swithdrawal agreement bill when it passed the second reading. several of my labour colleagues had voted for that bill, not because they support the prime minister's deal, but because they wanted to scrutinise it, amended and debated. that is how parliament works. as is the normal process in this house. we on the side offer the prime minister our support for a proper timetable to enable the withdrawal agreement bill to be properly dealt with. but the prime minister has rejected that in his letter to the leader of the opposition, because he does not want that scrutiny. but mr speaker, i
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wa nt to that scrutiny. but mr speaker, i want to make it clear. i want to make it clear that her majesty's opposition labour party will back an election once no deal is ruled out. and... waitfor and... wait for its... and... wait for it... if the extension allows. mr speaker, the right honourable lady says the prime minister has not made sufficient time. in his letter to the leader of the opposition, my right honourable friend says, we will make available all possible time between now and the 6th of november. we, mr speaker, . .. time between now and the 6th of november. we, mr speaker,... weir, mr speaker, are willing to start
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work tomorrow if you are willing to recall parliament. we are willing to work 24—hour is a day between now and then. what are the words of that him? even eternity is too short to extol the. it seems to me that externa eternity is too short for the opposition, because their opposition is fantasy opposition. they don't want brexit, and no matter how much time we give them, they will come up with some foolish objection. this will be the third time that the house will have voted on a general election. can the leader of the is tell us on any other occasion he can recall that the opposition have been offered an election on three occasions and rejected it?
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iwas... mrspeaker... iwas... mr speaker... earlier today... earlier today, iwas... mr speaker... earlier today... earliertoday, iwas actually praising the right honourable gentleman the leader of the opposition, and today i am able to quote him, because his words are words of wisdom. he said on the 24th of september 2019 exactly one month ago, this crisis can only be settled with a general election. that election needs to take place as soon as this government's threat of a disastrous no deal is taken off the table. we have met the condition he said the prime minister has got a deal, no deal is off the table, and yet for some reason, the opposition still doesn't want a general election. mr speaker, we know why this is. we know why they won't have an election. it's because they are
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afraid of the voters. so alienate it are the voters, so feeling disenfranchised are they with their socialist friends, that these socialists are running away from an election. thank you very much, mr speaker. what an extraordinary statement again from the leader of the house of commons. it simply confirms that this queen speech has been nothing but a charade, a simple electioneering stunt. vista speaker, for us, the priority remains, we need to see that extension secured, and that extension must be long enough to protect us from the cliff edge of deal brexit. and we have seen edge of deal brexit. and we have seen the prime minister'sletter to the leader of the is, we need to know that this tory government cannot play any games to trick or to use an election period to engineer a way to secure the no—deal brexit. the snp are clear. we won the
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opportunity to stop this prime ministerand to opportunity to stop this prime minister and to stop this toxic tory brexit scotland didn't vote for. and mr speaker, if there is to be an election, that election should be the chance for people to pass their verdict on the deal, and for this house to reflect that, and that should come first. tomorrow, the eu will make a decision on an extension, and we are wait patiently confirmation from brussels and the term the pm proposes. we will not be pushed today by this prime minister. because he might be hoping the electorate will fall for his con tricks, but the snp certainly will not. 0h, mr speaker, is it not saddening that scotland the brave used to be the call that we would get, and now, it's scotland the runaway, scotland the let's not have an election, the snp who wish to challenge the government actually
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wa nt challenge the government actually want us to stay in office? i never thought that the broad coalition of the united kingdom would have the scottish nationalist party supporting a tory government remaining in office. i look forward to that appearing in our election leaflets. but it occurs to me, mr speaker, that tomorrow is saint crispin's day, the anniversary of adun crispin's day, the anniversary of arjun court. what a good day it might be for us to meet and show our independence of spirit. —— agincourt. cani can i thank my honourable friend for his statement and just remind him that people in this house are blocking brexit in the name of the sovereignty of parliament? but whose is this sovereignty? what sovereignty do we hold that does not come from the british people? and shouldn't now the british people be allowed to decide who represents them in this house?
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mr speaker, as so often, i bow to my honourable friend's constitutional expertise. it is quite clear that the sovereignty of this house did not fall upon us like a comet from heaven. it comes to us from the british people. it is the people'ssovereignty, delegated to parliament. we need, as we are incapable of using it, to return it to them and ask them to have another election then decide how their sovereignty should be used. this is fascinating, but we are not going to embark upona fascinating, but we are not going to embark upon a philosophical discussion on the matter of sovereignty. this treats of the business of the house for monday. nothing more, nothing less. brevity is required. ijust want is required. i just want to be clear with the leader of the houses to whether or not his motion on monday is under the fixed—term parliaments act? —— the fixed—term parliaments act? —— the leader of the house as to whether. yes. irrespective as to whether people
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are remainers, brexiteers, or reversers, does he agree that the fundamental question that will be for the house on an early general election on monday is about their democratic decision to be governed by themselves through their representatives in parliament? i agree entirely, mr speaker. thank you very much, mr speaker. this house took 41 days for maastricht, 21 for lisbon, and now the prime minister expects us to rush through this legislation in fewer than a dozen days. and he expects us to do that because he has failed. he tried to prorogued parliament in order to rush this through and get us off the cliff without a deal. he has failed. the liberal democrats will not support this until we can be sure that this country will not be crashed out of brexit, and the elected has the choice. it's always exciting, mr
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speaker, to discover what the position of the liberal democrats is, because it changes like a weather vane. does my right honourable friend agree that if the president of france stands firm on declines as the extension, that there is still plenty of time next week to get the withdrawal bill passed by this house and in the other place, given the position that all the other side have taken on the unacce ptability of no all the other side have taken on the unacceptability of no deal, and then the general election itself can then decide who is taking the negotiation of the future relationship between the uk and the eu? if there were a will to get the bill through, it could of course be done, yes. my right honourable friend is absolutely right, and it would satisfy the european union, get the deal done, we would have left, and we could do it by the 31st of october, and that is what we should aim to do. i wonder if the leader of the houses familiar with the procedures of what
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is known as the wash up, between when a dissolution is announced and then parliament stops. it is normally a time when, through the usual channels, bills that remain are carved up because they are not controversial. but his attempt to use that period to basically seek a carve up, in a wash—out period, of the whole of the momentous future, of future generations, this brexit settlement, which, by the way, should never have got a second reading, but did, isn't that an abuse of the procedures of this place? iam place? i am sufficiently familiar with the wash up to understand what it actually means and what it is for. at the end of a session, normally of a year or more, bills that have completed a lot of their passage are concluded. this session has only begun. there is no washing up to be done. the cupboards are full of clea n done. the cupboards are full of clean crockery. thank you, mr speaker. could the leader in light and now is that if
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we vote for a general election on monday —— enlighten the house, that if we vote for a general election on monday, what will happen to the speaker election scheduled for the following week? would it be that mr speaker would be invited to stay on until the parliament ceases? speaker would be invited to stay on untilthe parliament ceases? mr speaker, the rules on this are absolutely clear. mr speaker has set out the timetable for his leaving office, and we will still have tributes to him on thursday during my statement, and people can draft away. they have got a few days in which to do it, and i expect they may be allowed a little latitude in the length of their questions on that occasion. but that once this house has no speaker and is sitting without a speaker, and i am looking at the clarks for some help, the priority of this house will be to get a speaker, whatever else is happening, and i am getting lots of nods from very distinguished personages.
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many members on this site may allow a deal through this house holding their nose, but if and only if the public are given the final say in a people'sreferendum before an election. can he undertake to say that it election. can he undertake to say thatitis election. can he undertake to say that it is and will be possible to negotiate the situation where his deal can be put to the people before we have a general election? leaving the european union was put to the british people on the 23rd of june, 2016, and a general election surely is consulting the people, if nothing else. can the leader of the is confirmed that 95% of the prime minister's deal essentially remains unchanged from the deal that preceded it, and we had three and a half years to scrutinise that? so this should not take too long. my honourable friend is correct, but he got rid of the undemocratic backstop, which made the deal acceptable. can the leader of the is confirm that if the house decides not to hold a general election on
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monday, that he will still bring forward a programme motion at some point thereafter? we hope that the house will vote for a general election on monday, because we need to clear this up. we cannot go on endlessly not making any decisions, and that seems to be the situation this house is in. it won't say yes and it won't say no, it won't say stay and it won't say go. we need to bring this to a conclusion, and the ha rd stop of bring this to a conclusion, and the hard stop of a general election may help focus minds, because nothing else seems to. does he agree that for those who do not want brexit, they will never be enough time to debate it, and for those who do not wa nt debate it, and for those who do not want a general election, there will always be an excuse to avoid it, and it would appear that those two positions are not mutually exclusive? my honourable friend is right. i think there may be a developing desire in some quarters in this house to suspend the quinquennial act. this is a handy way of distracting from the reality that the prime minister has not succeeded in
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delivering brexit by october the 31st. those of us who have been here longer than the leader of the is no these sorts of fun and games, this sort ofjiggery—pokery these sorts of fun and games, this sort of jiggery—pokery that these sorts of fun and games, this sort ofjiggery—pokery that he specialises in. when he doesn't get his election, perhaps he could then consider putting the build and with a proper timetable so we can debate it. we have just offered all the time available between now and the sixth. we could sit 24 hours around the clock. the hours that are available are equivalent to over 20 sitting days, but it is rejected, and the rejection is phony, because the people who reject it don't want brexit. can the leader of the is confirm that if those members opposite wish a referendum to overturn the decision of the last referendum, then they are perfectly at liberty to stand on that basis in
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the general election, put it in their manifesto, and if they win that election, they can legislate for one? his point is a brilliant and incisive explanation of how democracy works. and isn't it extraordinary that they stand up and go for a referendum, they don't want to put that to voters? if it were in their manifesto, and if, heaven help us, they won, they could do it. but they are so worried that they can't win and that they wouldn't win their referendum, that they just try to use legislative power to frustrate the will of the british people. studio: you are watching live debate at the house of commons, where the speaker of the house, jacob rees mogg hasjust speaker of the house, jacob rees mogg has just told the house that he is going to table a motion for an early general election on december the 12th. prime minister boris johnson earlier spoke to our political editor laura kunz berg, saying that the date of a general election in december the 12th would allow m ps election in december the 12th would allow mps further time to scrutinise his brexit deal, but they had to agree to a general election in order for that to happen. labour has said
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they were back in election once no deal is taken off the table. that's the event this evening. next, the six o'clock news. on thursday december 12th. borisjohnson says if mps agree to allow a snap eleciton, they will then have more time to debate his brexit bill. if they genuinely want more time to study this excellent deal, it's time frankly that the opposition summed up the nerve to submit themselves to the judgment of our collective boss, the people of the uk. but the big question tonight is whether the opposition parties will allow an election to go ahead. also tonight... police say the 39 people found dead in a refrigerated lorry in essex were all chinese, as forensic teams prepare to begin to begin removing the bodies from the container. for the first time cystic fibrosis patients in england will have access

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