tv Charlie Rose Bloomberg April 10, 2014 8:00pm-9:01pm EDT
african correspondent for "the new york times." about this experience in her new book. it is called "the wrong enemy: america in afghanistan, 2001-2014." very pleased to have her at the table. welcome. >> congratulations. much to talk about. what is your assessment of the election? praising it once and for the other to the afghans who went to the polls. >> it was very exciting. lots of debate. talking about voting because who didn't vote for because they either did not like karzai or they were distressed because of the state of the country. in kandahar, whole lines of people. last time it was an empty city, no one went out. there are some great movements there and it's very exciting. >> you contributed to what?
>> 12 years of the karzai era is over. was somethingit to think about. they're very worried about what happens beyond 2014, the withdrawal of western troop. they really want to have someone -- >> someone that will stop the taliban and. talk to me inside the palace about how concerned they were that karzai had not had a security agreement with the states. tacklent someone to help which they see as the real culprit. >> and so do you. we will get to that in a moment. tell me about the afghan people.
long? did i stay so it is because of the afghan people. they are incredibly warm and tough. they are amazingly hospitable. otherworldly in that they have had an ancient civilization still intact, traditions still intact. they have a very tribal system, a very religious system. they're very conservative .uslims i think they still have values that often in the west we have forgotten. they go to funerals, weddings. they visit you when you are sick or when you come in to all of those personal things that matter. that is wonderfully impressive when you are a reporter traveling through or even just to visit for a few days.
warm.re amazingly it draws you into the culture ran their whole tradition. >> explained hamed karzai to me. amazing character. he's had a rough ride. we will probably reflect a good morning about 10. holbrook used to say this. >> he did not get along with him. >> he recognized his clever maneuver,ability to to debate, to get what he wanted. that can be frustrating. for a long time, the bush administration found that he was a yes man. he was easily led. he went along with the entire western project. then i think he got very disillusioned with the west and americans in particular.
there was also the dense of confronting karzai about what was going on. he became disillusioned. went on the same thing. he thinks america is against him , trying to stop his efforts to make peace with the taliban and. question and it has become a personal vendetta against the west. he feels betrayed, badly used. he cannot get over that. is ability to move through and survive is amazing. he's the longest standing leader of afghanistan after the kingdom. for a long time, he stayed on the hell man survived while not having a knife in the back.
a lot of former leaders -- >> america believes still strongly that he is corrupt. he's not a bad man. he's one of the most likable. >> i've interviewed him as well. is attitude to corruption "don't make enemies." that's a method of survival in afghanistan. he would rather look the other way when confronted with something, including his own brother. ofn there is a sort looseness about what is corruption. that is a failure. he was given all of these suitcases of cash but he just took it for granted. he loves to show largess and
pass it on. he runs his own presidential palace. it is not a lack of morality. he just has a looser view of what is corruption than we do, perhaps. but ik that is a failing don't think he's a bad man. i think he just lets corruption happen. >> done there is the question of where troops will remain and why he refused to reach an agreement with other presidential candidates who have said they want to and even the iraqis have advised that they want to. >> he saw that as a plan. someone put them up to it. he's become very suspicious. >> of? >> the west.
he saw himself being scapegoated. the obama administration started to blame him. >> putting truth in the fact that the obama administration -- it was easier. thinkk the falling out, i a lot of the leaks were given out far too freely. he had a very close relationship . i think he understood. .e's afghan as well i think he understood his
failings but understood and bravery, his desire to serve his country. he generally doesn't want better for his country. he often does not know how to do it. i think he has had more flak than he deserves. as we move onto another seeident we will probably people having a second look at karzai. >> who do you think the new president will be? >> i think it will go to a second round. i think he will have the edge. if the questions come out, which is problematic, the security is there. if they come out, they will stick to the tribe. >> what if massoud had lived? >> i think that almost every
week, every day. with great sadness, i think you would have built an army and a police force much quicker. it was one of the lessons he learned when they were in power in the 1990's which was a terribly difficult time in the afghan civil war and all of the factions fighting each other. he tried to hold things together kabul, a don't know how the police. he said that they police academy money was in the resistance against the taliban down. he would have known immediately to forge a strong for us. that is one of the major failings in the early years after the taliban down felt. there were no police. >> i could be wrong about this
and you know much better. i always have some reason to believe that general mcchrystal had a good working relationship within. >> you are right. he did. obama to keepdent him on even when he was getting fired. mcchrystal made a personal visit back at the invitation of karzai. think he worked very hard at trying to mend that. >> he did not manage to get karzai to buy into the surge. down butnto did travel he still never really supported also think wasi a shame because i think it was needed and he's doing the right thing and he just could not quite take that step.
>> pakistan. do you think they are central to this? >> they feel they have to dominate afghanistan for its own security. >> and worries about india. >> the pakistani military run things and intelligence services are part of the military. since independence, they have had more time under a military government than under a civilian. they have had these military did hater ships and the military just believes that this is the way to go. success against the russians and they swore off the soviet union. theyjust continued and figured it was the way to do it. they then continued and they had their own proxy to go into
kashmir. and now this is the only thing i .hink they know they are in ensuring a state in afghanistan and they will continue doing it until someone stops them. >> could the united states have stopped them? >> they could have done a lot more to help say them. civilians and to , youthe people the truth have to tell the pakistani people what's going on because most do not know what they are doing. >> most of the front page was white. they did not want to print it.
journalists in the editors in pakistan is very strong to not cross certain lines. it don't talk about support for the taliban, sponsorship of terrorism. you don't talk about nuclear issues which is huge. i feel that it must be open to the people. then i feel the civilian helps to beif it strong, will eventually seize policy and foreign policy. at the moment it's all in the hands of the military. they are set on a ruinous course. >> in her last campaign she said she wanted to. she was actually hoodwinked and could not control things.
the end, i talked to her quite a lot in her last campaign and she certainly knew what needed to be done and was determined to do it. her?u believe who killed it.e certainly knew about he knew there was a plan to kill her. and was talked about at a quarter commander meeting which he chaired. >> should we kill her or how? >> they have a plan to kill her and let's do nothing. >> reduce our own security for her? >> they just never gave her security. that comes out of the u.n. report that she was never given the proper security that other foreign prime ministers were given. the point is that they knew there was a plot and they did nothing to stop it and they talked about it at the security
meeting. i blame the mall. this is where you see that pakistan is really playing with the devil because they have relations with al qaeda. they are listening, watching, meeting. then they are using them sometimes to do their dirty work and then may cannot control. >> today believe they truly know where omar is? >> absolutely. he is their man. >> to the americans know where he is? >> i doubted. probably not. pick up bits and pieces like we do. you cannot live and work in the country for 12 years and not get these constant feeds out that he was cited here or there.
i even talked to a bodyguard of one of his top commanders. he did not go inside but he knew it was his house and then he returned with the commander. you get the stories. you cannot work and live there without hearing this. often you don't print them because you come across them and it is just the sand that. after living for 12 years, you -- have to >> before we talk about osama bin laden and how they protect did him, in your judgment, here is richard holbrooke talking about you. i thought you might like to see this. >> the people who join the taliban down because of it dealing that they've been corrupted or abused by the government, the 25% but join because of perceived injustice,
that is our mission, to help the afghan government eliminate those issues that are so famous and well covered by journalists, brilliant journalists including john burns, duster filkins,, carlotta gall. their coverage has been terrific. , the floating people who pick up guns and a culture where guns are very popular, it's a long-standing historical tradition, that you have to deal with by a much better public information program. >> he mentioned dexter. what pakistan knew about bin laden from may 2 20 11. now that he's dead, the most intriguing question -- did any officials helped hide them. the fact that he was hiding in an urban area raises obvious questions like who was taking
care of him and how. it is only 35 miles from the capital and home to a military base, military academy, and retired- many officials. conspiracy theories abound. the most common is that he was being sheltered by the isi. >> everyone talks about it and everyone believes it. he's just a few hundred yards from the top military academy. i went to the house and you could see the wall of the military academy just there. i go through it in the book. there are so many things but you have to build up the case locally. there are so many things that point to it. every time the head of the army would come to the military academy for the graduation parade every year, the whole town gets checked for security reasons because they do have
their own taliban down problem. every street, someone would come and check all the houses. so then you say, ok how come they did not check the house? do they just knock on the door? yet then you find out there is someone working for the isi on every street and then talks to all the servants, usually, who ordered the guards or watchmen and work in the houses and then they find out if there have been any recent comings and goings who lives there, so on. all of these things, you piece it together slowly but you had ae they have to have watch on something. what happens is that the people watching the street are told that it's a safe house, keep away. they are warned off because it's a special house. it's an intelligence house or it
is someone's house. so the police are also taught that way. they are warned off. looking.have to keep eventually, it took me two years but i kid -- did keep talking to everyone trying to piece together the former isi chief who actually said that that he believed musharraf had him put civilian it was intelligence chiefs that put him there. he then water down his story under pressure. >> watered down when he told you. >> and what he told the press. misunderstood. i went back to see him and it was pretty clear that he still believed what he said. >> there was a single desk?
>> found someone that i cannot name, i'm afraid. it's extremely dangerous for him. he is in the intelligence service and he says there is a special desk. one man man did and only the top bosses. he can act without referring anything so he can make his own decisions and his only job is to look after bin laden. that just made sense to me. i could never confirm and with another source because people don't know about it or don't want to talk about it. cian't even know if the ever found out if they confided in them. i don't know if it would be considered treason for a pakistani to admit that to an american. i really believe it because it when youse especially look at the house he hid in. he did not tried to escape.
protection was always the of isi, the intelligence service. him.would warn >> you can argue that the americans knew that someone would warn him and that's what they did not -- why they did not tell the pakistani. >> a senior official said it was exactly that. they noticed there was no toddler back door. it made them think as they were surveilling the house that he was relying on being tipped off. that was one reason they did not tell pakistan about the positions of the house. when you put all that together, i just think it fits. recently, mike morel was here. you know him well. torture. about he said an interesting thing.
collegiate mohammed -- khalid mohammed, he said do not dare mention the korea. >> he said that? that's interesting. i heard he was reticent about that. i did not really see actually said those words. that is how they put two in two together. >> one person said one thing and -- etween >> we tried to trace the career -- courier. i knew i wouldn't then stop trying to go up to the mountain. 's father left the
mountains and moved to kuwait. he did find people who knew the family that he immediately got into trouble with cisi. he was told to get out of town and stop asking questions. something is very controlled about it all. >> are you worried about nuclear weapons? >> they've used a lot of you -- it used a9/11 lot of the money they have .eceived since 9/11 as the fastest growing nuclear arsenal in the world. that's very alarming. on the other hand, i understand
the pakistani military is an impressive organization and many of them are responsible citizens . i just think they have to have civilian oversight because the sponsoring of proxy forces is a ruinous cause. i don't think they are incapable of controlling or managing the in aayer arsenal responsible way. >> what is the appeal of the taliban and in afghanistan? >> there is not one. people hate them. .ome young men will join them they will join on a dare or something to do but people hate them. saw that in the south last year. tactics?e of ideology,
>> they hate them now. it's tactics that have been so your living with ied's in backyard every night. in the early years, they formed as a religious movement and they brought security to the country, they were respected in the commanders were elders who had fought with the jihad. now you have a lot of young funds. they are snatching cell phones , abusing elders, out-of-control so people hate them more. laying ied's in front .f everyone's houses they cannot go out at night.
they are operating in a way that the afghans won't not -- will not tolerate any more. people are really fed up. i saw this popular uprising in the south last year which was a reported the very real. absolute center of controlling in kandahar up until last spring. the elections there the other day -- they had elections there the other day. it showed me how exhausted they were there with the taliban and. ory help out of money intimidation. afghan -- i the think if the afghan army can get justger, it would collapse, the support would collapse.
the most important news story of the time. it is where my reporting life had started and rose to this hast wave of islamism that powered many of today's wars, story of the decade. here are you now? north africa? their in areading pretty alarming way. tunisia is where i live. these young men since the arab spring have brushed towards extremism and at least 1500 have gone off to fight in the war in syria. whathe great dread, happens when they come back but now far more alarming is libya. it reminds me of afghanistan in the 1990's. fighting each other for power, local power.
al qaeda is busy and they're ,oing campaign assassinations training freedom fighters. these extremist islamist groups are terrifying and they already .ave a foothold that will probably take a decade. >> at least the government is still in charge. it is a frenzy of lawlessness. vote.se women want to clearly the taliban and did not stop. not in the major population centers. the afghans really showed they
>> kristen wiig stars in a new film, "hateship loveship." schmid and name for herself on seven seasons of "saturday night live." "bridesmaids" that made almost $300 million worldwide. here's a look. thanks hey, buddy. i feel so much more relaxed. excited. i feel relaxed. i'm ready. to paaaarty ♪ with the best of friends ♪ and i'm gonna go down to the river ♪ >> wow. it looks like someone is really relaxing now. >> what are you guys talking about up here? >> we are going to a restaurant
he wears that's matured all the time. the one that you gave him -- he wears that sweatshirt all the time. in ar character is relationship with a recovering drug addict can find something she never expected. here's the trailer for the film. >> there is a lady over there. >> we've been expecting you. >> she's going to work here? >> this is my granddaughter. you're the one taking care of the granddaughter? >> i have a headache. >> my dad left this note for
you. >> i need your father's address. >> i can mail that for you. >> i waited for you to open up. perry.iend, yohanna e-mailill put a fake address on for your dad and she will have to respond that way. >> how about you say something like you should wear your hair back more often so we can see your pretty face. thinking about you in your nightgown. hold you in my arms. [laughter] what are you doing here? >> didn't you get my e-mail? >> i don't have e-mail.
i don't know what happened. i'm sorry. >> where is your mother? >> she died. >> i'm really trying here. i'm really trying. i know you don't have many friends. >> hate ship friend ship courtship marriage. john, the director, and kristen wiig. thanks for being here. how did this come about? >> the screenwriter brought the script to me about two years ago and we were on it a little bit. worked on the main character, johanna, the first
person i thought of was kristen. i felt that thematically she would know how to be that character. >> to be really awkward and sad. [laughter] >> that's me. >> i was sent the script and her first movie, the return, i was like i definitely want to work with this director. i really love the script. >> socially inept and is not
really in the world that we live in. she is just sort of in her own little world. she gets sort of pushed in the reality. >> did you make the movie you wanted to make? >> i'm told that really does not always go like that. [laughter] kristen helped me with that because it seems that we really saw the movie the same way. people really want to be honest she ise munro because such an important and talented writer. that helped us make a movie of a certain kind. she's very confident that her work speaks for itself.
i would be confident if i were her, too. she's such a beautiful writer and she is so literary that it story, the most exquisite moments happen inside the characters minds. it's a very different because photograph all of the moments in the story. thank you love the idea that -- >> you love the idea she put herself at risk for her desire. >> yeah. i like that about it, too. she comes from a world where it does not do her any good to want things she cannot have. >> and you can be hurt.
>> that is probably something she did not think about. blindly went of into this. maybe she thinks you only love one person in your life. >> does she change or do people change for her? >> she adapts to her .urroundings but she stays true they see that it's a beautiful thing and there is something , very silent,onal just goes with love. easy life.not had an
what is it that she sees in him? >> he liked me. he will be mine. [laughter] like, i sees him she's don't think she looks at mentor that way probably ever. i think he gives her a little attention and with the note he writes her, just goes for it. great catch. he's a drug addict, just got out of jail, doesn't have a good relationship with his kid. >> responsible for the death of his wife. >> that every girl's checklist. [laughter] >> to me, alice monroe is a really -- alice munro is really
unsentimental writer. how people are about affect each other but she would never say that a drug addict will change for you just because you want them to. way that people accommodate themselves to each other but it's not a rescue mission. >> do they expect you are going to be a comedic character? >> yes. can i look in this camera? [laughter] i do want each thing i do to be its own thing. i get it. people know me from comedy. many see actors like that, you waiting for it. in toronto, people were laughing
at certain things that i wanted to turn around and say -- i'm trying to be serious. interesting. i don't know if it would have been an interesting reaction. >> to me, you also let yourself have a full range and that movie. >> even the scene where i'm kissing the mirror, when we shot that we were all like -- that's so sad. she's kissing herself. when we played it, people were laughing really hard. sad but it's very interesting to be in a room where you hear that reaction. >> how do you explain the transformation that's happened? >> to me, hailee steinfeld and kristen's character has
different senses of knowledge. she knows how your life is supposed to be. friendship,veship, courtship. her life does not go in that order but i feel like she brings something else into sabitha's is happening and not just the set of expectations about how things should be. i feel like they have an impact on each other. >> why did you change the title? >> i was told was too long to fit on the marquee of the cinema. [laughter] >> who told you that? >> some business person. [laughter] did you find the experience of doing drama satisfying? >> very much so, yes.
this was kind of a good transition for me because it was completely a sad sort of -- she was a character. we talked about how she walked, how she did not move her arms really when she did. >> it is also part of dramatic acting. >> you are in a character. >> i'm learning so much. [laughter] >> how did you go about incorporate becoming the character? >> liza and i talked a lot about it. is is inf who johanna
her mind. she does not have a lot of dialogue. she's looking out the window, thinking, observing. we tried to find an interesting way to be true to the character from the story and make the transformation she needs to make. >> how was nick nolte? such a pro.rrific, >> did you meet him before? >> i met him for the first time during casting. we went to his house which was quite spectacular. he grew up in iowa and he came preparedll of his actor material with the house he grew up in, that looks like where we shot. we spend a lot of time talking about the background of that character. he brought that all into the chute. >> when you first drove to los angeles, what were you thinking?
terrified because i have not told my parents that my car was packed and my cat was in a little carrier next to me. i was in arizona. >> tucson. i went to u of a there. it was a day of thinking about it. >> one day? >> pretty much. like -- i don't know. it's one of those things where i've learned you cannot lie to yourself in the mirror. if you ask yourself a question, you cannot lie. i looked in the mirror and i was like, what do you want to do? it surprised me. you don't want to be here. >> when were you there? >> i'm so bad at years. >> what you're in college were
you? >> i was a junior. and just sort of happened. my roommate at the time lived in l.a. and i stayed with her. it just kind of happened. then i called my parents. >> and said you were in l.a.? >> i got two very different reactions. one review talking about? >> who was more supportive, mother or father? >> they were both supportive but they did showed it in different ways. my father was like, what are you doing? in the most loving way possible. they were both very surprised. i had never talked about acting or done anything like that as a kid. you know when you tell your parents something like that they do tend to look at the numbers. not a lot of people go out there and make it.
act? did you want to >> i don't know. that such a hard question. it was just in me. i took a class at school. i liked it. i don't know, my teacher was just really supportive. groundlings? with >> that's a theater improv comedy group in l.a. i had never seen improv before. i was like, i want to do this. i signed up for classes right away. at the eta changed my life. >> how did lorne hear about you? >> a lot of times you just send tapes in. just write "snl new york" and it goes. had done, bits on set columns, and a lot of stuff from groundlines, gs,
characters. >> and you auditioned before lorne and tina fey?? >> you go to the studio and you go on stage. they are there. you hear they are there. whenever i watch this show i'm always like, what's back there? it's like a black oblivion? >> it goes forever. >> five minutes. show us what you have. i did every characterimpression, anything i could think of. >> how did you think you did? leave anything thinking, "i nailed it." [laughter] there's not a lot going on. .t's you, the camera it's very intimidating.
then i got the call to come back again and audition. i was like, what am i going to do? i've done it all. i did notk again and hear anything. and then the season started. character, do a you try to get the voice first? >> it's all different. sometimes it's the voice. sometimes you overhear someone at the grocery store and you just write it down or someone in your family. >> bill hader. >> let's talk about him. >> let's do. when one of those people you do the table read on wednesday, you get excited when he's going to do something. you read the character description, "bill walks in as a blah."
just to see the way that he can manipulate his voice and he's just like the nicest guy. he's the best. >> you and bill did amovie together? >> "skeleton twins." >> twins? >> i have brown hair. we play twins. >> what's next for you, liza? >> i'm writing something i'm excited about, a group of teenage girls wear something surprising happens to them. i also have a project with michael shannon i'm excited about. >> this was terrific. thanks for coming. thanks i'm going to walk back here. it's like narnia. i'm going to meet a goat man. >> it's a black hole. ♪
>> this is "taking stock" for thursday, april 10, 2014. i am pimm fox. today's theme is selling, plain and simple. u.s. stocks tumbling. a lot of selling going on. the nasdaq composite index falling the most since 2011. we have a discussion around the selloff in just a moment. plus the chicago cubs looking to sell a minority ownership stake to renovate. their iconic home -- wrigley field. i will speak to the executive advising on the sale.