tv Charlie Rose Bloomberg December 14, 2015 10:00pm-11:01pm EST
we're doing everything we can to give you the best experience possible. because we should fit into your life. not the other way around. >> 54 journalists were killed in 2015 according to the committee to protect her to rejoining our four senior correspondents. i will introduce them to you and following their introduction, a report by each from the field. clarissa ward is based in london.
>> these buses are how most kurds get around. we were accompanied by a female fighter who is 18. the famous syrian hospitality is very much in evidence. even when we visited fighters on the frontline on this day, goat and bread was on the menu. you simply cannot refuse. beirut walsh is based in . the killing of osama this -- ,> out here in the open ground
with isis in the next village, they still scorn their leaders. if french or american fighters come here to fight, we will cooperate with them. even the mosque littered with mines. the silence here is breathtaking. you can just hear the complete absence of human life. there's little in victory left to fight her. >> this is a very difficult journey for them. i can't live in turkey anymore because i can't of normal rent. another person >> sweden is going to sweden.
people are actually in good mood they haven't quite registered what it's going to mean for them. while i was talking they did say i can't afford to live in turkey anymore they want to me my house in syria was destroyed. we feel this growing sense of hostility. >> ilene is based in hong kong and previously covered the war in the refugee crisis from istanbul. >> these are scenes that croatia probably did not anticipate when they open their order online day. -- border today. breaks through and
another country is overwhelmed. >> month since this migrant crisis europe still does not know what to do with all of these people. >> i am pleased to have all of these people from cnn's any of this table. syria, where are we at this moment? >> every time i come back we have this conversation and i want to have something positive to report. in terms of trying to find the longer terms illusion, from what i see on the ground we are essentially looking at syria breaking up into smaller areas. while there has been some momentum on the diplomatic side to get together some of the proxies in this war, that is not
being matched on the ground by a desire to turn toward the diplomatic or political solution because i think right now all of the various parties feel with russian support an american increased support the saudi sending in more than every group on the ground right now you that they can get into by the military then so you have on the one hand political effort but it's not really moving in tandem with what you're seeing on the ground. as everyone here knows well, if civilians suffering a level that i don't think many civilian anywhere have to suffer or. they are very much desperate for this. charlie: how many? >> we talk about 4 million refugees that we don't talk about the displaced people who are to intensive purposes half the population. people estimate the unregistered
numbers could possibly even be double that. >> what impact is russia happening in my life the level of weapons being used the feeling of how much worse could this possibly get we saw that class on the order with turkey. observe conjure this terrifying ghost. think it didn't quite go as badly as you could expected. the scary investment. because what they see themselves as a domestic function. like a car.
remarkable propaganda. ukraine didn't really go the way they actually hope. it's another dimension. charlie: are they striking? >> that's interesting. i don't think people realize a remember, assad regime itself never really targeted isis. they allowed isis to grow and thrive. they could've targeted isis that they were too busy bombing their own population or perhaps it was is the logic of wanting to justify their own initial argument that they were fighting international terrorism. you look at it it's assertive sickening name of chess. russia's place in the assad regime's placement very strategic in furthering their own arguments.
>> i think he's stronger than he has been in years. >> i think perhaps short-term but longer-term your country with a substantial muslim population you already had a passenger in load. russia struggled for years with its own insurgency. the relationship is a little bit strained. the point think he said he
wouldn't allow federal officials and the parliament. charlie: clearly this is been a recruiting tool for isis. >> the most compelling. the think this gets lost we get so focused on the tunnel vision of radical islam is the problem , isis is not just a product of radical islam. isis is a product of the lack of any kind of action on behalf of the international immunity in the vacuum that we've created by assad blessing of his own civilians for years. -- brutalizing of its own civilians for years. that's the vacuum that it grew and thrive again. it's many things it is complex and nuanced and simplified under the rubric of radical islam it misses the point and misunderstand the steps that need to be taken to try to go about ending groups like isis.
>> even in the end even as they say different things that only with the americans want. ,> before syria was in ruins some of them were privately saying it is better to keep the sky. -- this guy. that's the only semblance of any structure left. to hear that from those people who marched into machine-gun fire would not been driven out of their country, when you first put your heart and soul into this idea of revolutionizing your own country and you see
this momentum, when you feel abandoned on been every level, you will turn toward the only thing you have in life, which is religion from many people. it is the in action by the international community. that tries the argument that isis has. it is a product of a global massive political humanitarian failure in the inability by western nations to truly understand the dynamics of the region. >> because of the american airstrikes with at least one, the arab states have pulled back.
you'd think that would have to be verified. >> the sort of hope that someone outside will come and take care of it the u.s. is saying no this is your generational challenge instead they're involved in a -- proxy war. the saudi's are seeing oil prices crashed. this is the beginning of the broader regional change. >> talk about the left of unity unity. of that is reflected in the region. it is not like jordan is on the same page. they are working against each
other often. >> there is opposition groups of completely divergent interests. the turks are backing jihadi era -- jihadi arabs. mess i don'tete . think anybody can imagine a way out of this. >> what's so interesting to me is that at least russia and iran assad agree. and that narrative is that they are saving the world from radical islam. what is the u.s. israel narrative? what is europe's real narrative.
everybody else is grappling are struggling to find a coherent narrative that they can find. >> is there a moderate syrian force that can be mounted effectively against assad. >> and it's a billion-dollar program. he was very dedicated very smart that began to fall down. there are these loose militia movements. that is the product of years of syrians being masked by the regime. and the influence of foreign money preferring radicals.
that is the major issue. qqa, you neednto ra syrians at front. >> they're not what we would call moderate per se. >> are they as powerful as isis in syria? >> no. >> their territory they're smart -- they have funding. >> they're also not trying to impose a strict sharia law like isis. they understand that they need to get the syrians to like them. >> they were really trying to
calling it is not going to do this without getting more weapons. this sunnis have been reluctant to turn against isis. is that changing? to iraq is getting ,he sunnis to join against isis is there evidence that is happening? >> i think the second sunni awakening. a version 2.0. it hasn't happened yet. >> we were just in sinjar. they did not see the daylight between them.
>> here's the other thing. >> how are you going to inspire someone to pick up a gun and fight? muchhas been through so killing and violence. psychologically they thought maybe it was over. they have never had anyone they can trust. think it used to be better? >> i think it has a chance. >> but militias still challenge authority. there is a line that they cannot fight over.
>> there was a scenario predicted that is starting to exist. >> what is the presence of iranians in syria and iraq? >> every month we hear about and iranian general getting killed. >> or injured. solid -- assad doesn't have as much control. there was discussion that assad was uncomfortable with the role of the iranians.
with thousands of them fighting on the ground alongside hezbollah, that is why he invited russia to participate more actively. i cannot speak to the validity of that. i thought it was an interesting was that assad uncomfortable with how many fighters there were. >> they are very present in iraq. they are very there. they are not hiding the fact that they are there. film oversay, do not
people up. people are facing jail time for comparing him to the hobbit gollum. well during the election. >> there was that first round of elections over the supper. -- over the summer. all of a sudden, he has done well in the polls. this might have been the strategy behind it. they were terrified at the process of instability.
would also frightens me is the animosity they have capitalized on. this fear of the other. right now, the other is a rabs and muslims. attitudes are shifting. that will have devastating consequences to our future. need to be able to explain each other to one another. human.all fundamentally lost.mpassion has been
up in fear.ed at the height of fear during no serious politician called for stopping muslims entering the country. one decade later, that has changed. i think you could argue about rious" politician. >> but the death of 3000 people in this country did not result in that kind of rhetoric going out. >> dramatic changes. the radicalization process that
takes place. >> exactly in the years after 9/11 law enforcement was looking who are spreading messages of hate. but the radicalization that we see in europe and other places, bedroom jihadists. the radicalization process is not happening in hamas. >> you're being recruited by your friends. they're going from the same neighborhood. it's very attractive and it's very understandable. jihad used to be something much more abstract. it went to the mosque and it was a bunch of men.
now it's your buddies. the real threat of isis is that they capitalize on the malaise of young man living in western society most of them second-generation immigrants who honestly probably didn't think of themselves necessarily as strongly muslim. isis gives them identity. >> that's why there's such an solutions. it is so much more profound than anything we've been able to deal with. dealing with an ideology but you're also dealing with all these factors that have to be addressed. we don't want to admit it but their winning. charlie: how do you measure
winning? >> we have not. and by we i mean not isis. we have not properly provided argument to these evil that will be drawn to ice. charlie: ideas? they are winning the war of ideas. it's a romantic engagement. >> they're fulfilling something that is obviously lacking in these individuals were they don't feel as if they are welcomed. want to make their marks. >> also getting into some of the worst impulses. racism. >> the attitude towards the refugees that were staying in europe and in countries.
>> it feels the notion and the idea that i had of the west america is against islam and muslims. and the west in america want to destroy the religion. the refugees get to europe's shores hoping that their nightmare is over. treated as being subhuman. they are stripped of their dignity the second time going through your. this feeds into isis. ♪ the only way to get better is to challenge yourself,
it's our promise to you. we're doing everything we can to give you the best experience possible. because we should fit into your life. not the other way around. charlie: tell me about the questions that you want answered. questions about the events. humanizing the other. when i hear the discussion between politicians sometimes about whatever it might be
refugees or radicals. there is such a divorce about the discussions and actual understandings. they have favorite colors and food. we have not done enough to bring that home. >> is not what do i want to have answered? is what are we being? why is this happening to us? is the world not seeing that we've been suffering and if they are how can they still allow this to happen sooner or enough human enough? not worth it. we get asked those questions every day.
>> i don't think the us has the power to come in and fix the regional cold war between iran and the middle east. we have seen the limits of the u.s. i feel like one of the priorities after 9/11 when the u.s. was invading when it was embarking on military adventures. a big responsibility was to ask , these are human beings. problems areional destroying this part of the world. would intervention in 2012
have stopped it? assad was weak at that stage. why would we think that that would be? >> you can ask the question that was being asked back then, should there be military intervention in syria? one of the question asked was what the serial look like it there isn't intervention? inaction has consequences. we saw iraq. iraq was falling apart. islamic state in iraq was growing in power. there was going to be a vacuum in syria and that vacuum eventually was going to be held.
we all talked activists in the beginning were warning about the ideas of the revolution. they warned in 2011 2012 the very beginning. that notion of tolerance and forgiving and keeping the nation together. one syrian said to me, if you are drowning in reaching for andone and nobody is there then someone helps in you don't like the look of them, are you not going to take their hand? of course he would. it was the only hand on offer. airport before
.s of who we are we only to each other to help. understand and have compassion and caring even though people might team like they are far away. >> i was curious and i wasn't sure what i would do. >> i think the reality is -- i remember bob simon saying this to me. you have to be curious. first-handto combine experience and humanizing
people. there's something incredibly exciting about that. to witness history on occasion. >> it was an inspiration. ended up getting dragged back into these wars which after 15 plus years i'm exhausted and frankly traumatized. there's something about the despair. >> what i would like to say in the past is there's a great big world that is rich and beautiful and fun and it tastes good and it smells good.
it's the koreans and japanese the chinese they watch the love that they don't understand it. they don't understand why people would want to kill each other when you can make money and build shopping malls. >> there people who come here to the table and a we need a marshall plan for the middle east. to provide an alternative narrative. >> i spoke to kurdish official and i asked him on the kurds avoided the trap after the lab job and all of these people killed in this relay he said we were willing to forgo our need vengeance. we instead focused on economic
growth and it was hard >> don't forget they felt their own civil war. they have their own power struggles and they are still deeply divided to this day including these issues. >> that this bizarre diplomatic process we have. the be lovely to have a solution in a box. but within those groups, this is the biggest problem in syria. there was people that decide to talk. they'll have to realize that nobody could win. >> they made an agreement.
>> the syrians were pretty much invited in to oppose an occupation. that's a much stronger solution. it brought an end to the fighting. lebanon was a much smaller country. charlie: let's talk about afghanistan. >> i think the talks that they had thick biggest problem is fighting the new taliban area and isis is the bigger problem there.
i think there's a security collapse in that country afghanistan is so last decade in the american consciousness. i think it will come back to haunt us. it will be there. there a lot of nuclear weapons. they're so cautious not to wash our hands. it's about time you carried on. i worry about where the country is headed. it looks like a very pale version of what we're trying to leave behind.
gains more. yemen is the perfect microcosm for all of the various regional players who are meddling in this kind of incoherent way that doesn't seem to have an obvious objective or outcome. i think it's hurting the gulf is well. -- as well. lost at thishas stage. >> it's not going to have much impact on them. >> you just want to stick your
china becoming more aggressively in terms of the region in having global ambitions. eventually wanting their currency to the a reserve. they are not a player at all in the middle east. >> aren't they smart? mind your own business. what's the advantage? china has worried many of the neighbors. and makinglands territorial claims despite a number of countries that are not really ideologically or strategically aligned malaysia and japan and korea, countries who themselves are all worried by the behavior of the chinese.
the japanese even change the constitution to remove some of the pacifism. >> it's interesting when we think about the world today south korea is an ally. that shows you who our friends are. >> when i look at historical cycles and i see the agony of the middle east, i think a little bit past decades it was southeast asia that was burning. being invaded by foreign