tv Bloomberg Markets Bloomberg April 18, 2016 3:00pm-4:01pm EDT
scarlet: from bloomberg world headquarters, get afternoon. i am betty lou. bidder.as a new the company formally known as yellowpages.com enters the race for the company's core business. ha dip sending oil prices lower. is more volatility ahead or can there be a floor? and hanging on by a thread after losing a vote in the house. will the senate feel it? we are one hour away from the close of trade. i want to head to the markets desk with julie hyman. she has the latest on the turnaround that began earlier
this morning in the market. julie: it has held on pretty steadily. amazing that we are seeing this gain in the face of that failure of the doha talks coming to any kind of freeze agreement. the major averages are hanging onto their highs of the day. the dow and s&p have been stronger today. 500 in oilat the s&p today. that has been the story of the day. you have the s&p in white, rising to the highs of the session. oil prices have come way back are meant almost 7% decline initially on that news. wti alone shows that it is still down on the day about 1.5%, but it has come way back. one thing in oil's favor is an oil straight in kuwait's cutting about 60% of the nation's production. this putsvery least, support under oil prices, if not pushes them up into the positive
on the lack of that production freeze. interestingly, it has had an outside effect on energy stocks. here are the groups on the move. gettingel has been greener and greener as of the day has gone on. now we're seeing subgroups that are lower. all the interest -- industry groups in the us of you have rendered a higher and energy is up by about 1.4%. there are some analysts, including phones that goldman sachs, who have said they anticipated people would come in ,nd buy the dead, so-called today, particularly with energy stocks -- that they would buy the dip. fmc technologies and apache are some of those in a fitting from this. betty: interesting. is weakening amid this impeachment vote. julie: right, different than what we have seen as we have
gotten closer to a potential impeachment would right now, the dollar is higher by more than 1% against the real. the brazilian central bank came in with attempts to weaken the currency. we have seen brazilian stocks pull back. they are down now. part of it has to do with this weakening currency but also by the idea that we have already seen such a big rally in both in brazilian stocks going into this potential impeachment. the dollar down nearly 10% this he appeared the ball vespa up 22% year to date and up about 40% from its lows in january. and the idea that even if she is impeached, whoever is takes power still has a big job to do in turning around that economy. betty: a huge job. thank you. let's check the headlines.
crumpton has more. mark: thank you. a new nbc news wall street journal poll indicates hillary clinton's national lead over down toanders is now two points. it she is supported by 50% of democratic primary voters nationwide, compared with 48% for senator sanders. a nightclinton had percentage point advantage just one month ago. senator ted cruz says he has no interest whatsoever in being donald trump's running mate if nomination.ns the senator cruz spoke on "good morning america," saying that hillary clinton will win by double digits if donald trump is the nominee. supreme court arguments have spiritver deportation more than two dozen states, most with republican governors, argue the president has gone too far. there is suggestion that
justices are divided. the court decision could alter the fate of millions of undocumented immigrants. he getting today, the pentagon is offering money to hackers who find security flaws on its website. the hack the pentagon program runs until may 12. through aave to go background check before participating. hackers could walk away with upwards of $150,000. global news 24 hours a day powered by our 2400 journalists in more than 150 news bureaus around the world. back to you. betty: thank you. back to the markets. stocks rallying. oil erasing some losses after that breakdown of talks in doha. slimmon, portfolio manager of morgan stanley investment advisors, is joining us now. today, despite this rally , you are sounding a big caution noted, right?
andrew: i think you have to see some validation early. i think this doha is interesting. oil is down, stocks are up to it i think you are starting to see some of these factors that are starting to price in and acceleration the economy. materials, energy, industrials, that is why some of those sectors are doing better. they have performed well year to date. at the risk is to the stocks that are too far ahead going into earnings season, a gentle reminder that things are not quite as good. financials today are rallying, even though it is only because expectations were brought down so low. betty: right, the bar was so low. do you think stocks are getting ahead of themselves? andrew: that is the risk. but there is no doubt, the market is telling you that the economy is starting to accelerate and some of these value areas are starting to lead. betty: so investors are right? andrew: you have weakness in oil, but stocks are up today.
betty: you talk about earnings, and we will obviously be watching earnings season closely. let's put up that chart that have profit margins, which come down and are expected to come down even further. the reason why, and this is interesting, because we have seen when profit margins shrank, that is a good indicator of a recession. you saw that right before the recession and right before the bubble burst in 1999. are we headed that way again? andrew: i don't think so. there is no question that there are parts of the sop, like consumers, margins have been pushed to extremes. and what happens if we're coming out of recession -- we had a recession and certain parts of the market -- manufacturing, energy, so forth. and i think those -- of the safest place to investor the
areas where you already had a recession. so i think the value area is a safer place then some of the big winners the last few years, like consumer discretions. at 5% unemployment, suddenly people want a pay increase. --hink that is where right wages could start to pressure. i am not saying we're in for an economic recession, but i think there could be some issues because they have been the key drivers. i think there is a rotation going on in the market. we are going to rotate in the areas that have not participated in this recovery as much or the flip side is i think there is more pressure on some of the areas, like consumer discretionary. they have squeezed profit margins really well, and they could come under some more margin -- betty: how could consumer discretionary stocks the vulnerable in an environment where the economy is accelerating? andrew: that is true for
consumer spending because of margins. so maybe you get better top start but they have to them, and some companies have whated to raise wages but they can sell their products for is so competitive that is the squeezing margins. we all know a number of companies out there that have raised prices over and over and over and eventually you get to a point where you cannot raise prices anymore and you have to pay your people more. that is the real risk here. that is why i think it is better to look in the areas that have not urges abated as much in this recovery, and that is mostly in the lu area. betty: what does that mean for the overall markets? i can see where some value areas might rally, but what does that mean overall? andrew: look, we are in a "show as of 2% of the market for the year.
the s&p is slated to grow earnings by 2% this year. it will change. the energy sector is targeted to be down this year and maybe there is upside, but maybe there will be more pressure on consumer discretion to its for the market overall, i am concerned -- betty: is it a sideways market? andrew: if you only have 2% market growth this year in the market is up to person, that is nothing like a lot of growth. i think the place to make money is rotating, but i am not convinced the market overall will do real well. kind of traffic, right? everybody piled into the market a couple years ago, and it is running out of steam. let's put up the chart where the s&p really mirrors the price of oil. we have seen that before. we do not have the chart. and you can imagine it. i show you have looked at it so
many times. do you see that that correlation is going to continue? andrew: it lowers the anxiety. if we have not had 2008, i do not think it would be a big issue. it was like, it when you have an asset like closing distress to go down, it could cause major contagion. so contagion, contagion, contagion. this year, oil is coming down, so there has to be contagion. that is really the story of why financials fell out of bed, in my opinion. i think it just brings confidence back to the markets. but there is no question, something that causes a recession is when oil goes up a lot very quickly. that causes recession. it at these levels? i do nothing that is the case. betty: andrew, thank you for joining us. andrew slimmon of morgan stanley investment management much more ahead. a breakout for yahoo! why yellowpages jumped into the
race. will other potential buyers follow suit? netflix ready for worldwide domination again, particularly strategies with overseas markets. their earnings out in just under an hour. new details about a high-tech car in the works at a top-secret facility in germany. is apple moving beyond the iphone? ♪
was trading. the dow new the highs of the session, 92 points. the s&p up over .5%, and stick with where oil traded in its own rebound. there you go. thee is oil, just below breakeven mark. now it is time for the bloomberg business flash, some of the biggest business stories. laboratory corp. of america holding talks about a possible deal. corp. is looking to solidify its position as the biggest diagnostic company in the u.s. with the market value of $12.1 billion. former harvard university president larry summers wants the school to consider curbing annual payouts for its world record endowment. the former u.s. treasury secretary says it will further reflect the likelihood of lower investment returns, which have
been in decline since 1999 and are projected to be around zero in the long run it harvard has the world's largest endowment dispersed. he'll campbell, and admired silicon valley coach and mentor, has died -- bill campbell. he nurtured a range of luminaries, including apple cofounder steve jobs and google cofounder larry page. campbell was a marketing executive at apple in the 1980's and was appointed to the apple board in 1997. he died of cancer at the age of 75. that is your bloomberg business flash update. to the latest on yahoo! we have learned there is some new bidding for the company. yp holdings. you have likely heard of their former name, the yellow pages. a joined the daily mail, verizon, and others as potential suitors.
alex sherman broke the story for us. very interesting. why would yp holdings be interested in yahoo!? alex: it speaks to what yahoo! is, which is an advertising company. , theis what yp is now digital business that used to be the yellow pages. the print is this is now a separate company, although they still share a sales force. that salesforce is one of the reasons why yahoo! might be interested in doing a deal with holdingsgs, because yp as more than 3000 local sales agents as part of their company. that is a huge number. yahoo! does not live in the world of local advertising for smaller medium-sized businesses, which is where yp holdings gets its revenue. surprisingly, yp holdings gets a lot of revenue. you might think yellow pages and think it is arcane. yp on the digital side,
holdings still brings in more than $1 billion in annual revenue. that is almost double the size another company that works in this sort of land. betty: a lot of advertising revenue then. alex: a lot of advertising revenue. how youdepending on measure it, may have no even duff -- ebitda. be appealed to it because it makes money, has a local sales force, and it is a tax efficient structure for yahoo! to spin off its core business, merge it with yp holdings. -- it givesa who yahoo! shareholders an upside to they would still own part of this new business. if they felt like yahoo! was really undervalued right now and it was not the right time to sale, they could do this deal
and still be shareholders moving forward. betty: is there any kind of proxy deal for at&t? alex: in some degree, it is. they would get a little bit of yahoo!, if the new this deal goes forward. maybe it makes more sense for at&t, which was rumored to be interested in bidding for the whole thing but decided not to. firmve not gotten commitment yet to at&t to say this is why they decided not to bid logically speaking, you imagine that might be one of the reasons why they decided to pass. betty: what about horizon? alex: verizon is still the favorite. they can say, look, yahoo!, you want out, we will get you out. we will purchase of japan and your core business. yahoo! shareholders and management want cash, marissa mayer wants a big payday, and to say thank you, see you later, and tim armstrong now works for verizon, wants to run the new company. that still seems like the most logical way this will pan out. if for some reason verizon sours
on it, they do more due diligence and decide, you know, we thought we wanted a certain amount of billions of dollars, but now we do not think it is worth it. then it is possible that yahoo! has a new fallback option. betty: when will we know all of this? when will this conclude? alex: great question. not for weeks. after all the bids come in, and we will know that at the end of the day tomorrow, early tomorrow , we'll find out, then moving forward, yahoo! will have to analyze every one of these bids. they will all be a little different. maybe verizon wants to buy yahoo! japan. this could be a reverse mortgage trust. revit equity firms might want a portion of the business but not all of it. they will all be a little different. it will be a lot of work for the yahoo! financial advisors and yahoo! management to sort out and figure out, all right, what is the best deal?
betty: this is bloomberg markets. joining me for actions insight is david bartosiak and he is out in chicago at the cboe. we talked about the rally today, but we have not talked about something you have been watching, a rally in small caps. as you said earlier, they are moving above the 200-day moving average.
what does that signal to you? is a big deal.it i think it says that the risk rally is here to stay. look at the russell, we did behold -- below the 200-day moving average in august, and it got ugly after that. coming down to the february lows it obviously, we have lack -- we have rallied to since then. i compared the s&p 500 to the russell starting back when the russell dropped the low the 200-day, and it has lagged since then. here, aswe rally above long as it can hold, we have decent volume over the next couple days. we might rally back up towards the all-time high in the russell. julie: does that mean you are buying calls, for example, when it comes to the russell, and you think that will continue to spread to larger caps? i think the timing is a little bit off. i want to see it kind of --
[indiscernible] [no audio] julie: sound like we're having ate mic trouble with david the cboe. he was going to talk about netflix, which is out after the close of trading. those chairs are suffering their biggest drop in five weeks ahead of that earnings report after the bell. we have been talking about it as amazon announced it will offer prime video as a stand-alone service for more competition for netflix. we have talked about the international subscriber growth being key for netflix, as well. with its has maxed out domestic subscriber growth. spread, ia put believe, on that stock. hopefully we will get some details next time. betty: yes, we will. still ahead, a quick look at how the markets are trading right
now heading towards the close. the dow up by about 88 points. losing a little bit of steam from our rally to the s&p higher by about .5%. apple has been recovering on reported could be entering the auto market. is the tech giant preparing to enter into a new industry? it is heading towards its lows of the session, down about 2.5% today. ♪
thank you. ordering chinese food is a very predictable experience. i order b14. i get b14. no surprises. buying business internet, on the other hand, can be a roller coaster white knuckle thrill ride. you're promised one speed. but do you consistently get it? you do with comcast business. it's reliable. just like kung pao fish.
let's look at the headlines. mark crumpton has more. mark: thank you. donald trump and campaign manager are being sued by political strategist who is accusing them of inciting a virtual mob to bully her. the behavior came after she questioned mr. trump's fitness for office. this was filed in new york today. hillary clinton and bernie sanders are backing legislation that would allow americans to suit saudi arabia over 9/11 attacks. it is difficult to imagine a scenario which president obama would sign into law. but is indifferent -- it is important to families of 9/11 victims, who believes saudi arabia and officials played some part in the attacks. they threaten retaliation if congress passes the bill. wounded in people
what police said was a terror attack. the israeli prime minister said thisll locate and repair explosive device. we will reach dispatchers. we will settle the score with these terrorists. --mall exclusive device explosive device caused the blast. instant smoke billowing into the air at the southern edge of jerusalem three miles from bethlehem. plans to install surveillance cameras at the holy site in jerusalem known as a temple mount to jews and the noble century to muslims. -- sanctuary to muslims. this came after israeli forces and palestinian protesters at the site, they are concerned they would view the cameras to spy on activists. russians president -- russia's president talked about paste
between ukraine and russia with president obama. >> we have seen the hostilities continues to be fragile. and increasingly threatened due continued -- due to continued violation by the regime. subject, i think you could describe this as an intense conversation. mark: president bruton said it was necessary to talk the syrian turkey border to keep wetness -- weapons from getting into syria. global news 24 hours a day part by 2400 journalists in more than 150 euros euros -- news bureaus around the world. betty: markets are closing in just about 30 minutes time. abigail doolittle is looking at the big tech movers. we were just talking about netflix. the secondetflix is
biggest drag on the nasdaq ahead of the company's first-quarter reports after the bell. one pressure is the news that amazon is launching a video only --picion service subscription service to rival netflix. another is the upcoming earnings report. some investors are worrying if they can hit to the total estimates for the quarter. andguidance for the first second quarter be heard despite the spica turn? thistock is refighting turn we look at the february lows. it is an uptrend, but broken, suggesting very likely some sort of surprise out of this report and decent volatility ahead for shares of netflix. ? tty: what about apple it has been a drag for the index on the nasdaq. reporter: apple is the nasdaq's biggest member, waiting at 8%
instead of 3%. stock is down having the worst two days slide since january, and the stock is down 4.5% on a report from the nikkei agent review that apple has asked iphone suppliers to keep production at current reduced levels. surprisingly -- not surprising the this its suppliers like semi conductor producers. as for apple, a 10 month charge could be under pressure. a strong trend of selling pressure is pushing the stock down perhaps to the recent lows near or below $100 per share. betty: thank you, abigail doolittle at the nasdaq. apple may be secretive about other plans in the car market. can it really make a splash? we have an analyst that covers apple. from the speculation about
apple's entry into the auto industry, joining us from san francisco. let's put the car speculation aside, because who knows, that may be a distraction to abigail talks about. is it like a serious concern, 6s. d for the iphone 6 and is there a real problem here? >> we are going for a product transition, supply can get muddled. this cycle has not been as strong as initially thought, but we were cautious on the next cycle. as we are moving to the iphone 7 product cycle, data points will come in around may or june. from the supply chains. that is the time we think sox will respond positively. now, clearly there is a lot of noise. it is hard to get through supply chain data points. uglyhe iphone 7 is from
going to be a better cycle than the iphone 6. betty: why? >> there are still a lot of users on the iphone 6 platforms, we think they would come by the new version. and there was massive uptake that happened with the iphone 6, the largest screen size. by the time iphone seven, they will be two years out. and they usually start upgrading their phones in two years. the life to be longer, but still between that and 24 and 33 months is when this will happen. betty: people that work pre- iphone 6 awaiting the upgrade, why did they not catch on to the iphone 6 success? >> they were whiting for the -- waiting for the iphone 6 hd. and there are people that just like to wait as long as topple
-- as possible for lower prices, longer than two years. ,etty: and from devices to cars there was this report in germany , an article that said that 10 to 20arently has very senior top people or employees working at some secret car. what do you make of this? >> there is clearly something going on. tim cook has made public statements acknowledging they are doing work of their, but something. we have details of the counterparts, such as semiconductors. we look at who all has apple hired over the last few years. the challenges of the article real industry -- automobile industry incorporates statements they have made on market.
we do think they will do something in that space. we are not sure what form. they could do a strategy and partner with other manufacturers . and the report from germany indicating support saying that a stronger but people are working on -- a strong group of people are working with automated factors. mark: -- betty: so there is no legitimacy to the idea that apple could be manufacturing cars. that is too far? i think building forms is very different from building a car. and clearly it could be valued if the emergence [indiscernible] at it byere to go themselves. we think the partnership strategy would be the best one for them to take. what way? nership in what do you mean exactly, what could it look like? >> they have design technology
with other licensing technology and working with apple on that. on the stock side they could do similar things, developed technology and work in the leading car manufacturers. it is distribution issues. apple would have to open up car dealerships and service centers to support the car strategy. betty: ok, but do they need 10 to 12 top-secret people in berlin to work on software technology for cars? really? is a talent out there from the automobile industry, and apple likes to hire all the people that are leading engineers on whatever products they work in. maybe they found it easier to open a lab and higher people locally. and work with them instead of trying to make everyone in one location. betty: we know germans make beautiful cars, right?
so why are you going to be in germany if you are not going to design a car. >> they have got talent over there, so they are going there for the talent. betty: thank you so much. the analyst at securities in san francisco. what ahead after failing to come to a deal on production speed in doha, unpredicted ability in the oil markets here to stay? we will talk to citigroup. ♪
their pricing vehicles and ramping up production. 2022 to meetn to the goals. he has produced a few already. fora is up more than 20% april 15. carnival is making the first ba if theyu.s.-cu do not allow u.s. cubans do not board. they are refused from returning by ship. carnival has been skewed by cuban-americans claiming discrimination. protesters have targeted. is 400 jobs -- cutting as many as 400 jobs. the process should be completed by the end of the second quarter. nordstrom sees a savings of $60 million for the current fiscal year.
that is a bloomberg business flash update. oil,s been a wild day for caring most losses despite the failure to reach the agreement in doha. ed morris is with citigroup's and asked how they communicate markets earlier today on bloomberg tv. >> it is another event that happened, it disrupted supply from kuwait where oil workers and out on strike. pulling 60 million barrels out of the market. that is much more than could have been accomplished then at the doha meeting. it is a wait and see. period of time. will beled this back over quickly. we expect the froth will be taken out of the market completely, and we will see prices going back to $40 a barrel. what is that they take away with oil producers communicating to the market? upi think talking the market
is no longer as you see them do. it was going into this meeting. even going into this meeting, the energy minister of russia was trying to say that, don't expect a big agreement. it may be a gentleman's agreement, no pieces of paper will be signed. they have done a very good job in anticipating market reaction to the talks, and now i think that the qatari at least have tod, the next is for opec get in order and we will see what happens in june. doty: so what can the saudis now? we were just talking about the deputy crown prince and the oil minister. how does this proceed? >> it is an open question. the logic is that they will try to put more oil in the markets rather than freeze production. crownnly the deputy prince has made those statements or suggested that is how --
suggesting sometime soon like next week. the next step will be taken, in the new saudi arabia, the way the country weans off of oil is the predominant driver of the economy. we will see what they do. that kind of argues for more oil production. i have been hearing more exports, more production. it is basically extra oil you end up having in case of supply disruption. it is kind of scary. we are just over 1.5 million barrels of oil, meaning there is not much juice to help the market if we see major long-term supply disruptions. is right aly, that sex the market to be significantly more volatile isng forward or -- that exactly why the market will be seeing more volatility going forward. this is the most radical reason isis went up in february and march -- prices went up in
february and march. people in the eastern part of turkey blew up a pipeline that fouled away threonine 30,000 barrels -- 300,000 barrels of oil a day. another explosion in columbia took out 200,000 barrels a day. that is why is prices went up. now the urging of the oil minister or opec. betty: that was ed morris. speaking earlier on bloomberg tv when he talked about how he sees oil markets. so the theme of "what'd you miss?" is going to be commodities in general. joe weisenthal is the cohost. he joins me now. what did you think of reaction in the oil market? joe: in a way, i was surprised, and in a way, totally unsurprised. it was not a failure, they did
not come to any agreement. the selloff made sense. funny, and are so markets always have a way of doing the opposite of what seems like the obvious thing. so that they come back, the big rally and risk asset did nothing to surprising. tell you? does that oil markets have moved on from opec and fundamentals matter more? joe: to me, the really interesting thing, and i don't think we have a clear answer about this is, what caused the huge rally to see basically everything since the middle of february? rates are higher, u.s. equity, home prices, so what caused that? gave the oil rebound people a lot of confidence, by everything. but other possibilities, maybe it was the fed, raising
expectations, it was not going thatke or three times people feared. if you think the fed is in controlled and it is the fed calling the shots, perhaps opec measures the fed. and if you think they are wise it will still be up. , to figuret to push out what oil is doing what it is doing, you need to figure out what is going on with all the markets. betty: and looking ahead at brazil. joe: the real initially -- the riyal initially rallied. markets have a strange way of working. betty: sometimes it is ok to be a conspirator. joe: especially when everything is in one direction. betty: thank you, joe weisenthal, the cohost of what ou miss -- "what'd you miss?" the s&p and highs in the session. ♪
♪ betty: this is "bloomberg markets," the markets are closing in 10 minutes time. julie hyman has a check. julie: volume is down a little bit from a 20 day average in the s&p, down the 4%. it is making new highs for the year, doubt making highs as well -- the dow taking highs as well. tied to what has been happening with oil prices. we had a lack of agreement in doha, and get oil has come off of lows still lower on the day but also near the highs of the session because there is an oil break in kuwait cutting supply. i want to check the movers as we
head to the close. there is latebreaking news for theo do with energy equity's crest to buy williams company. and the tax opinion requires for the deal to go through may not be delivered. there may be questions on what is going forward on the headlines. we saw williams, the company to be acquired, falling. energy transfer equity in contrast, those shares are up. it is up by 11% at this point. we are also watching other big movers, and a pharmaceuticals is undervalued according to deutsche bank. endo pharmaceuticals is undervalued according to deutsche bank. some analysts are saying stocks ike hess are a good buy. betty: thank you. we sink further into big market
highlights, we have that stock seen. what struck out at you today? oliver: we are getting a nice little rally in the last two days despite going into the earnings season. everybody is going to be pretty bad in terms of profit. what is issuing the point, a plan in my head by experience, it makes sense if we can it sharply what is happening the first week of earnings for the rest of earnings season. we have a lot more time to go. you look what happened so far, it is monthly financial companies. those reporting, even though a lot have been reporting negative processes, they have been beating low estimates. and that is helping markets go up, they are all up 4.5%. what is interesting about that, you look at all the sectors going into this earnings season, we are expecting negative earnings growth. all of the sectors had rallied
going into earnings except financials. they have done very poorly, down 7% year to date. betty: so they have the most room. oliver: the question now is whether or not there is a willingness to move the stock up on a poor earnings report, some sectors have been rallying ahead of it. betty: chemical that again, margin pressure? -- can we pull that up again, margin pressure? oliver: is basically looking at what we can learn from the outlook, rescission outlook on corporate profits and margins in particular. we are starting to focus on revenues this quarter, and that is what brings in the conversation about whether or not companies have the cash flow , doing some of the things they have been doing. whether it is by back, if they feel that tightening on their book, whether or not they can compete and pay off high dividends, whether they can
raise wages as some of them have been doing recently. betty: can they? oliver: the jury is still out, and it will be hard to look at because cash flows are getting tighter. we have seen that finance companies get smaller. it will have an effect on how ey use cash on hand. betty: thank you. that is it for "bloomberg markets." "what'd you miss?" is next. the last majorat averages less than four minutes away from the closing bell. ♪
>> i am joe weisenthal. alix: and i am alix steel. stocks closing higher this afternoon, the dow pushing above 18,004 the first time in nine months. joe: the question is what'd you miss? scarlet: netflix may have conquered the u.s., but the world may not he so easy. we break down their earnings. joe: plus, we look at what next for brazil's government. oil: and the biggest producers are unraveling this weekend in delhi. doha.does it -- in what does it mean for oil prices? indexes at their session highs. the s&p 500 at its highest level since december 1. joe: incredible data going into