tv Charlie Rose Bloomberg June 15, 2016 10:00pm-11:01pm EDT
>> from our studios in new york city this is charlie rose. charlie rose: we begin with our continuing coverage of the orlando attack. 49 people were shot dead. omar mateen opened fire in orlando. continues toon unfold. it has been reported that omar mateen frequented the pulse club in years past. there is also suspicion that his second wife was aware of his plan. president obama spoke earlier today at the u.s. treasury. he called for better gun control. president obama: iraqi forces
have surrounded falluja and have begun to move into the city. in the north, they continue to push up the tigris river valley. preparing to tighten the noose around isil. isil has now lost nearly half of the territory they once control in iraq and they will lose more. isil continues to lose ground in syria as well. assisted by our special operations forces the coalition of global forces is now pressuring the key town. so the noose is tightening around isil there as well. the coalition continues to stay on offense. isil is on defense. it is been a full year since isil has been able to mount a successful offensive operation in either syria or iraq. if we want to help a law-enforcement protect people from homegrown extremists, the
kind of tragedy that occurred at san bernardino and now in orlando, there is a meaningful way to do that. we have to make it harder for people who want to kill americans to get their hands on weapons of war. we cannot prevent every tragedy. but we know that consistent with the second amendment there are common sense steps that could reduce gun violence and could reduce the lethality of somebody who intends to do other people harm. we should give atf the resources they need to enforce the gun laws we already have. people with possible ties to
terrorism who aren't allowed on a airplane shouldn't be allowed to buy a gun. enough talking about being tough on terrorism. actually be tough on terrorism. stop making it easy for terrorists to buy assault weapons. reinstate the assault weapons ban. make it harder for terrorists to use these weapons to kill us. otherwise, despite extraordinary efforts by local law-enforcement, despite all the sacrifices that folks make, these kinds of events are going to keep on happening. the weapons are only going to get more powerful. let me make a final point. for a while now the main contribution of some of my
friends on the other side of the aisle is to criticize this administration and me for not using the phrase "radical islam." that's the key, they tell us. we can't beat isil unless we call them radical islam. when exactly would using this label accomplish? what exactly would it change? would it make isil less committed to trying to kill american? would bring in more allies? is there a military strategy that is served by this? the answer is none of the above. calling a threat by a different name does not make it go away.
this is a political distraction. since before i was president, i have been clear about how extremist groups have perverted islam to justify terrorism. as president i have repeatedly called on our muslim friends and allies at home and around the world to work with us to reject this twisted interpretation of one of the world's great religions. where does this stop? the orlando killer, one of the san bernardino killers, the ft. hood killer, they were all u.s. citizens. are we going to start treating all muslim americans differently?
are we going to subject them to special surveillance? because of their faith? we've heard the suggestions during the course of this campaign. do republican officials actually agree with this? this is a country that founded on basic freedoms, including freedom of religion. we don't have religious test s here. our founders, our constitution, our bill of rights are clear about that. if we ever abandon those values, we would not only make it a lot easier to radicalize people here and around the world, we would have betrayed the very things we are trying to protect. the pluralism and the openness, our rule of law, our civil liberties. the very things that make this country great.
that make us exceptional. and then the terrorists would have won. we can't let that happen. i will not let that happen. charlie rose: joining me now is ben rhodes the deputy national security adviser for strategic communications at the white house. that hardly defines what he does there. take us if you can inside the mind of the president as he is trying to react and make sense of what a president is supposed to do in a moment like this. help the nation comprehend and also show to the future. ben: his principal responsibility is to make clear how much our thoughts and prayers are with those who were killed and surviving in orlando.
that is something he has had to do all too many times as president. he has to put it in the context of how are we going to respond. to pursue an investigation to understand the motivations of this killer. more broadly, and in so far as this may have a connection to extremism, he pledged allegiance to isil, how are we going to pursue a strategy to defeat isil overseas, but also try to combat an ideology that can prey upon the deeply disturbed individual like this and leave them to do something as tragic as what we saw? charlie rose: what did he think he had to do at this moment in that speech. aboutf we are talking self radicalized individuals, we
are talking about people who are taking it on them selves. we are talking about people who are radicalized, it is a battle of ideologies. the point the president was trying to make is that if we are engaging in policies or rhetoric that stigmatize the entire muslim american community that blames an entire faith for this terrible act of violence and suggests in any way that we are at war with islam, then we will make that job much harder. isil depends upon a narrative of a war between the united states and islam. it depends upon people being disaffected within their communities. to prey upon them through social media. he felt it was essential to our national security we continue to make clear that we have to reject that kind of approach and take an approach that sees muslim americans as partners in this fight. charlie rose: but he does see something happening that is
radical fundamental islamic terrorism. ben: as he said, we believe there is clearly a perversion of islam by groups like isil. they use it to justify the slaughter of individuals, including muslims. we have to combat both the organization of my and also the ideology. we will be more effective if we do not describe them as a religious organization. they are a terrorist organization. charlie rose: how does the president respond to a donald trump said today and what does he think of donald trump's contribution to this moment? ben: we have these debates about labels for some time. we did not want to define isil or al qaeda or any other extremist group as speaking for islam in any way. we have avoided that terminology.
the problem is when you see that terminology taken to its logical end, if this is defined as a conflict that is inherently about religion, that leads to policies like not allowing muslims to enter the united states. or policies of more excessive surveillance and denial of civil liberties. that is what is so disturbing. if we make decisions guided by fear or by painting a very broad brush on a fellow americans who happen to be muslims it will make the wrong decisions and to do things that are ultimately harmful to both our national fabric and to our national security. charlie rose: you seem to be saying that the president believes using labels like that, you are inevitably tarring all muslims and that is exactly what donald trump is doing with his response to this tragedy.
ben: two things, first, just saying radical islam is not going to defeat isil. the sun will come up the next day and isil will still be there. they are not going to lay down their weapons because we used a different phrase. second, how do we define the enemy? people can use different terminology. we believe we should define it as a war against terrorist networks, isil and al qaeda. not a war against a certain type of religion. that has the potential to be interpreted and utilized by groups like isil as a means of saying we are indeed at war with islam. they don't speak for islam. charlie rose: is the administration saying there is nothing more than we can do?
in fact we are ratcheting up that fight against terrorism at this moment. ben: we have demonstrated for seven and a half years that the president will go after terrorists. he also gave a progress report on that effort. we've taken back a large amount of territory in iraq. we are taking back territory in syria. we're taking out leadership targets. we taking away financing sources. the challenge is what you do when there is one individual who is one to take upon himself to kill people. that is much harder to stop the -- than a complicated plot where individuals are communicating. the two things the president emphasized our deny them the worst weapons. if you walk into the club and didn't have those automatic weapons you would not have had such a death toll. charlie rose: the president
will do something to renew the ban on assault weapons? ben: he believes that there should be a ban on those weapons. charlie rose: we all know he thinks that. the question is, what is he going to do that he hasn't done in the past? he's been deeply disappointed on this in the past. what will he do now? ben: for those broader changes we need congress and congress has been resistant. we continue to review what we can do through executive action. for the bigger changes we need congress. if you can't get on a plane because you are on a watchlist you should not be able to buy a gun. we're hopeful that congress will take commonsense actions on gun safety laws.
how do we engage in the struggle ideologically? the biggest asset we have is that america is a pluralistic country. muslim americans do succeed here. that is what is going to allow us to push back against people who want to radicalize individuals. charlie rose: who are engaged in the fight against isis, and others may be misled by a misreading of islamic doctrine. ben: we have muslim americans and armed forces, muslim americans who speak out and helped us unravel these kind of plots. this is essential to this fight. this gets back to the terminology. if you asked are close allies overseas such as king abdullah of jordan or muslim community leaders in the united states they will tell you is counterproductive to define this war in religious terms. that is the terrain on which the
terrorists want to fight this battle. we need partners in this effort. we need to take pride in what makes america a great country. that is our pluralism, and freedom of speech. that is what will allow us to push back against efforts to radicalized disaffected individuals. charlie rose: tell me what you know about that. a homegrown terrorist. ben: there has been a pattern where individuals start consuming a significant amount of online content and propaganda often very visceral propaganda. that starts to affect their behavior. they become withdrawn. from certain types of activities they would engage in in the past.
they get into arguments that they didn't previously get into with colleagues and friends. and they can retreat into themselves and start making different associations with people. what you see is an individual going through the process of withdrawing from their previous identity and preparing themselves to do something terrible. that can take a long time or can have more rapidly. a lot of this now happens online. that makes it more important that people are vigilant about how to see that happen. there is no terrorist plot that is disrupted without some degree of cooperation from within the community. if it is not the type we can get through our intelligence. charlie rose: tell me what the president is prepared to do.
ben: showing solidarity with the community and families, we want to continue to prosecute this effort against isil in the remaining time in his administration we are taking back as much territory from them as we can. leaving an architecture in place that can complete the job of destroying isil. how are we looking at these issues? fromhreat is migrating. where we went from plots that were carefully directed from overseas to this kind of self radicalization. had we lift up the credible voices that can push back against that ideology. build up the partnerships and sustain them that we need here in the united states and around the world to do that. how can we look at things like our gun laws that get at the very least make it more difficult for someone to commit a terrible act of violence like this. we will be zeroing in continually about this challenge. orlando only elevates the importance of dealing with this lone wolf challenge. that is where the terrorist
threat has been heading. charlie rose: the leader of isil. what do we know about him? has he been injured? in an air attack? do we think he is in syria? is he in iraq? has he been grievously wounded? and cannot command isil anymore? ben: i know there are many different reports out there. reports, we do not have any independent information about whether or not he has been injured in any kind of strike. we have made taking up the -- out the leadership of isil because we have been able to get
better intelligence over the course of this past year and a half. even though they have characteristics of an insurgency they do have a core leadership that is very important to their operations. so you can make a dent in their ability both to direct their efforts in iraq and syria by focusing on that leadership. charlie rose: thank you for joining us. we'll be right back. ♪
charlie rose: joining me now is brooke baldwin. she is the anchor of cnn newsroom. brooke will join us in a moment. with us now, mary ellen o'toole is the program director of the george mason university forensic science department. she is a former fbi profiler. i am pleased to have her on this program/ we're learning more and more about this case. and about the gunmen. give me a sense of how he fits other profiles of people who have committed this kind of mass murder. maryellen: he is different in some ways. some of the similar features is that this is a mission oriented shooter. what that means is he was on a mission that morning to kill as many people as he could.
there was a tremendous amount of planning that he would have had to put into this murder. that planning likely would take -- would go back days, weeks or months or even years. it had to have pre-existing planning. when you going to a place that is crowded with all these people in your intention is to kill them your outlook is that they are not human beings. they have been dehumanized. this was extremely callous. and the shooter shows no remorse for these victims. are personality traits that preceeded the crime. other shootings that are considered mission oriented shootings. charlie rose: was his mission
simply to kill people, because he had been inspired by isil? or was his mission to be inspired by isil and combine with whatever else happened within his own makeup and kill people from the lesbian and gay transgender community? maryellen: it could be both. i think, as the investigation unfolds what we are going to see is an individual whose aspirations of anf by isis are pretty much skin deep. he cherry picked what he wanted to learn about isis. he had an interest in other political organizations. those were really opposed to isis and their politics and ideology. which suggests someone who was more or less shopping around for the right terrorist group that he can associate with. that could be because he wanted
to associate with a group that would give him a sense of power and dominance and control. a sense of being feared by other people. i think as the investigation unfolds, that is what we will see. charlie rose: you look at someone who was enormously unhappy with their life and blamed other people. and wanted to do something to show that they were significant. maryellen: that is a part of it. you can add on someone who over time has been able to develop this all-encompassing hatred hatred, towardut people, toward groups in the world. a fascination with violence. demonstration with violence in the past. a collector of injustice. blames others for their problems. loses jobs, loses relationships. violence is their pathway to regain some control.
there is the pink elephant in the room which is the access to weapons of mass destruction. despite all the patterns of behavior that preexisted sunday morning, none of this would've happened had there not been access to the weapons of mass destruction. charlie rose: we talk about that more -- brooke baldwin of cnn joints me. what are you learning about the gunmen? brooke: we have learned a lot today. first, cnn has just concerned -- confirmed that this shooter took the time to donate blood just last month. you have all these casualties many of whom have been receiving blood, one possibility is that his blood is being used. number two, we're learning more about his actions in previous weeks. we know that he apparently had been surveilling two different
locations. one is a disney springs resort. full of kids and rides and shops. timing-wise, it was during a gay theme celebration during that week. we found out he had visited this particular pulse nightclub multiple times, so there is that. he was apparently active on some of these gay hookup sites and apps. and what about his wife? investigators are talking to her. she's being cooperative. fbi have talked to have said that the number one thought is that how could the family have missed this. you think about the kind of high-powered rifles he was using ammo he would purchase.
would she not known? we can never assume. an fbi person said he would have many questions for her. as we talked about in the wake of the bostom bombing. and the brothers living in that small apartment. what did the family know? those exact questions are being asked of the wife. if she knew she would be complicit. charlie rose: the wife told the fbi that she had driven him to the site. brooke: we have not confirmed that at cnn. it is a report i have heard as well. i've heard a number of reports on that. charlie rose: there's an indication that she knew about certain parts of the process. we don't know it's true and what's not. we are getting a stronger indication. that shee do know
had gone and the disney property. charlie rose: what are we beginning to know that indicates who he was with respect to his own sexuality and his feelings about the lgbt community? brooke: why would you want to go to the extent, he was friending multiple gay nightclub owners on facebook, he wanted some sort of access. the fact that he visited this nightclub multiple times. he was on some of these dating apps. his own father talked about the hatred that this man fell 20 -- when he saw two men kissing in miami. the father was asked, was your son gay? also the cultural perspective. the father is from afghanistan. mind american, but keep in
the cultural sensitivities to homosexuality. combine that with who knows how he felt. were their repressed feelings if you cannot join them did he want to kill them? that is one theory. the other being pure hate. i mean, he massacred 49 people. charlie rose: i want to read a quote, this man said to the new york times how individuals get to this point is really complex. if we try to boil it down to one factor we're going to miss a lot of that complexity. it is in that complexity that we really can understand what happened. help us to understand the complexity of this man. maryellen: let me give you an example, and that statement is accurate. in a case like this in
mission oriented shooting the shooter will go out ahead of time and pick out the venue. where are the security officers. we are hearing that his involvement in meeting man who frequented this club and having conversations and the app to meet people. that is not part of surveillance. that is not part of knowing what people are coming and going. that does suggest a personal involvement in a lifestyle that he suggested that he hated. question,esent the was he dealing with his own ambivalence toward possible homosexual thoughts or desires and yet at the same time hating that. that has to be considered. was that enough to fuel the hatred even more. at that scene there was no question that he was cool, collected for three hours. during the course of time when
he was killing so many people. we have not seen a mass shooting of this length since charles whitman back in 1966. whitman shot and killed for 90 minutes. i think that it is important to dig down into the complexities of what was going on in his life. it is not a simple "it was terrorism" or a hatred of gays. iut ismore complicated than that. charlie rose: journalism's oldest question is why. why did he do it? i assume that is part of the pursuit is going on in orlando not only by the fbi that by the reporters. brooke: absolutely. i have been to newtown and virginia tech and i held a town hall at the museum in washington and we talked to gun violence survivors. we all are wondering why.
he was casing this club. think about when he did this. it was after the last call for alcohol. that final point when it was a max capacity in the club. he knew what time to go and and he knew where the bathroom door was to hold those hostages. he was familiar with that. let me leave you with this. i spoke to a source at the police officers. think about the medical in all and allner's office, the bodies they would have to deal with. all the cell phones that were going off. the bodies, the phones left in the pockets. incessant ringing from loved ones who wanted to find their sons and daughters. charlie rose: part of the pain is those that did not know what happened. thank you brooke. thank you maryellen. we'll be right back. stay with us.
starring, written, and directed by african-americans. fast-forward to 2016. a similar success has emerged called shuffle along or the making of the musical sensation of 1921. this broadway musical traces the challenges faced by the original. it was nominated for 10 tony awards. ben brantley in the new york times called it defiantly fresh. here is a look. ♪ >> i'm just wild about harry") ♪ he is wild about me ♪ ♪
[applause] charlie rose: joining me now is the writer and director george c wolfe. and the choreographer savion glover. i'm pleased to have them back. the last time they were here, they were separate. welcome. how did you two get together? george: we had worked together on noise funk and when i started working on this project i knew i needed him. someone to share the vision. it was the perfect thing first to work together on. there were so many innovations that shuffle along had in 1921. it was the first jazz score. the first time a women's chorus danced. the music and the dance felt very innovative in 1921.
but those don't apply in 2016. i wanted to figure out a way to make it feel fresh and vibrant and innovative for new eyes. charlie rose: to most people know about shuffle along? george: nobody knows about it. may, and in 1921 in ended up making $9 million. it was ridiculous. they used syncopation. it changed jazz. paul robeson was in the cast. josephine baker. it changed the face of broadway. i kept doing all this research. i saw a pictorial history of broadway that went from the 1890's until 1957. and it had 10 pages of
photographs and then at the end it said and also that season "shuffle along." i became intrigued by how could something so monumental, so succesful, george jean nathan wrote brilliantly about it, how did it end up a footnote? the answer is a couple of things. those who live tell the story of those who don't. various people died off. there was a revival in 1933. if there was 1952. and both of them are not very good. charlie rose: what makes it so great? in 2016? savion glover: what makes it so great is the wonderful cast. george, all the other people involved. charlie rose: how different is it from 1921?
>> were not telling the story of the original shuffle along. it is designed in a very sophisticated way by george and it allows us to become more familiar with the players who are involved in the show. we touch on the show little bit. it is mainly about the actors and the people involved. show,olved from the their contributions. the dance thanks to george is a part of the story. used tap dancing to tell a story. thato promote everything is going on. it is different in that way. my role is to choreograph the show which i did thanks to george. there was very little to pull from. very few visuals from the show. the research that we did. i grew up as a tap dancer. always watching old footage.
george introduced new footage that i had never seen. it was a matter of pulling some of those visuals and lending my energy towards that. a little switch. we try to maintain the style. charlie rose: how much choreography have you done for other people? other than your own? >> not much. every now and then i have my dance productions going on and touring around. this is my first time doing it for 25 people in the cast. this is my first approach. charlie rose: you had a lot of confidence in him. george: it's not all tap choreography. thoughtome issues, he at one point he wanted to be in the show but i said you have to choreograph the show.
charlie rose: how do we solve this problem? couple of met a times. maybe the third fourth meeting i said he's serious about going to -- i'm not going to be in the show. i accepted the challenge. the reality set in. george: after a while he accepted the challenge. it was so big. it is a monstrous show. i needed a collaborator. i didn't need for him to be disappearing into the show. now starting at the end of june or july he will be disappearing into the show. what is the magic of the show?
the show is brilliantly designed. exactly, i say hey kids, let's hang out. the first act celebrates the magic and wonder of creativity act two is really about the consequences of success. the consequences of history. one critic of the time actively buried "shuffle along." act one is about the joy of creation, back to his about this dynamic that affects all of us. will we be remembered for the best of what we did? the people of shuffle along were not remembered for what they did. through the process of unearthing them, we celebrate them.
they were lost to history. come see shuffle along and you will be healed. maybe i am praying to the gods of remembrance. i want to be remembered as someone who told stories that empowered people. i want to be remembered as people who allowed people to face another day doing the best work that they could do becoming the best version of themselves. charkie: who walked out of the empowered?ling george: so they can work to become the best version of themselves. charlie rose: you are too young to think about being remembered. you never know. my guess is that you're a dancer. a proud tap dancer. savion glover: yes i am.
charlie: that would be just fine? savion: i also want to be remembered as one of the hippest cats ever. charlie" : a cool man? to be: how do you want remembered? savion: all the accolades mean nothing. you just want to leave a mark. as a tap dancer but also as a person. charlie rose: what is complex about making this work? what was difficult about it? it wasn't that difficult? savion glover: it is difficult but it was just so joyous. there was nothing really -- agan, i accepted every challenge.
charlie: it was a convergence of many things. savion: what was difficult? i don't know. george: the most challenging thing about creating a musical is making sure that the buoyancy maintains no matter what. that is the hardest thing of the world. even you have something like west side story of sweeney todd there still has to be the energy in the buoyancy to push it through. all the way until the curtain. act two, maintaining the buoyancy as we explored the relationships in the storytelling. as we get closer and closer to tiem of maintaining. there is a story that eubie blake tells the george gershwin lifted the notes for "i got rhythm" from a pit player from "shuffle along." he lifted those notes, and he
stole them. i am not saying that he did. i'm saying that someone said that. it became a very interesting thing. it becomes a tap dance that savion choreographed. him playing the instrument, and incing out the fact that theory that someone lifted his notes. "shuffle along" was filled with joyous rage. this number becomes a manifestation of that. charlie rose: this is from chris jones, "in many ways and engages in a conversation with hamilton by offering up a reminder of how profitable enterprise invariably relies on previous sacrifices from equal talents who did not enjoy the good fortune to be born or to be working on broadway in our current moment of diverse opportunity."
george: that is an extraorinary statement. when i went to audra mcdonald and asked her to join the show. these people had to carve out a place for themselves. their passion and their joy and their defiance of the weapons they used to carve out their space. they created something that was so extraordinary and something that was celebrated and then it went away. the show was so popular that time that fanny brice went to the producer and asked them to add a wednesday midnight show so everyone else on broadway can come see it. they did it. every night al jolson bought 300 tickets and came to see the show. it was a cultural phenomenon. it also started the whole phenomenon of downtown going uptown. this incredibly huge cultural curiosity about what harlem was. it was the first time.
uptown and downtown creatively and intellectually and musically engaged in a conversation. that needs to be celebrated. that is why we celebrate teh show. charlie rose: did you say i have to find out everything about this? savion: i'm excited about doing choreography. charlie: the opportunity to choreograph for another time or place? savion: oh yeah, i am excited about that period. continuing to allow the dance to progress. we can tell the stories through tap dancing and maintain the legacies of some of the greatest men that ever contributed to the dance. charlie rose: he took tap dancing to a new place. george: savion is a very
brilliant, genreous teacher. a lot of people who are very good at what they do are difficult to be around because they are intolerant of people that are not existing at their level. that is one of the things that i -- people are doing brilliant work not known as dancers because of the grace of how he teaches. that is really thrilling. by older tapught dancers so you're talking about something set in 1921 there is a living repository of rhythm .
he likes that. given my $20 for saying that. [laughter] stale, or is not artificial or fake. it has the combustible energy of something new that it had what it had what was first done. charlie rose: did it kill stereotypes about black performers? george: it killed the stereotypes while perpetuating them at the same time. two of the performers, miller and lyle became blackface performers. everybody else in the company is they are in their natural skin and performing. it became fascinating. one of the things that is also interesting is that because of the success of shuffle along and it was set the southern town you will find for a very long period
of time very few shows that featured african-american stories that were not set in the south. it was the first time on the legitimate commercial stage that there was a love song that was expressed between a black man and a black woman. charlie: first time on the musical stage ever? george: ever. in 1921. and the performers were terrified that rioting would happen or they might be arrested. the first time they sang the love song the creators were at the stage door ready to run in case something violent happened. i read various accounts of people traveling across country not just to see the show because it was successful but to see a
love song -- there is nothing ethnically specific about it between two black people. it comes straight out of the operetta. people were transformed by it. charlie rose: was a combination of how good it was and what it was doing to open new doors? and show black talent? george: i think it was all of that. i think it was, one of the things that i said, we need to redefine the conversation. iot was the first time a women's chorus danced. it was the first time syncopation, jazz dance, was on broadway. the song i'm just wild about harry versus give my regards to broadway which is square. it changed the nature of expression. when we talk about showboat being the first musical with serious subject matter, and oklahoma, shuffle along has to be added to that conversation.
charlie: do you tour and tap all the time? savion: all the time, i'm constantly going around spreading the gospel of tap dancing. all around the world. charlie rose: is it an international tour? is it appreciated as much around the world as it is here? savion: it depends on the audience. it can be appreciated in abu dhabi. close to it. opening in abu dhabi. george: the first performance possibly july 24. charlie rose: good for you. i will see it soon.
mark: i'm mark crumpton. you are watching "bloomberg west." egypt's aviation administration says it has rotted wreckage of the airplane that crashed into the mediterranean last month. killing all 66 people on board. the plane disappeared from radar on route two cairo from paris. in a bloomberg politics poll shows hillary clinton opening up a double-digit lead over republican donald trump. 50% of those surveyed said they would never vote for trump. by 50 to 45 margin, voters say trump would do a better job fighting terrorism. in the united states senate, connecticut democrat chris murphy launch the filibuster to