tv Bloomberg Technology Bloomberg December 2, 2016 6:00pm-7:01pm EST
founder david and north dakota democratic senator heidi heitkamp. ary cohn will return for second meeting with trump this weekend. he's been mentioned as a jobs,ility for several including budget chief. michigan's election board is todlocked on trump's request prevent a recount. it starts next week, unless the intervene. one is already under way, though trump supporters have filed a federal lawsuit trying to it.ent in pennsylvania, trump is asking a court to dismiss green party stein's request for a recount. mr. trump's transition team has list of world leaders who spoke to the president-elect today. singapore's prime minister called trump to give his congratulations. the philippine president also called. andpresident of taiwan afghanistan are also said to have spoken to trump today. hours a day, in
more than 120 countries. is bloomberg. "bloomberg technology" is next. >> i'm emily chang. this is "bloomberg technology." coming up, u.s. unemployment low.a nine-year but jobs are still under threat from the rise of a.i. and automation will be a deep dive, on what kind and how many. of anotherbreaking high-profile attack in saudi arabia. will the incoming trump able toration be effectively fight cyber warfare? hiring yet another head of product, we'll recap the our eyeies that caught
this week. first, a mixed picture in the u.s. jobs report. workers todded more their payrolls and the to aloyment rate tumbled nine-year low, 4.6%. 4,000 manufacturing jobs were lost. earnings fell a tenth of a the participation rate continues to hover near the 1978. level since it's a kind of weakness that andtrated the middle class that president-elect capitalized on throughout the campaign. oure're gonna bring back jobs to pennsylvania. [cheering] back ourgonna bring jobs to the united states. your car industry is being michigan.y from it's happening. if i'm elected, you won't lose one plant. will be the greatest jobs god ever created! blames trade,rump
others blame robots and say the rise of automation is really causing the decline in manufacturing jobs. so we want to know, how big a bite is automation taking out of the u.s. workforce and what do it?o about joining us now for two visions of the future, tom, author of "only humans need apply" and martin ford, author of the book "rise of the robots." gentlemen, thank you for joining us. concern.ot a new human jobs have survived multiple technological revolutions. martin, i'll start with you. what makes this one any different? >> well, i think the biggest different is the robots, sort of machines, the limitedms are, in a sense, beginning to think. they're taking on brainpower, cognitive capabilities. it's not just about muscle power or manipulative type jobs anymore. becoming intellectual work as well. that's going to have a much more
broad-based impact, going to scale across not just whitecturing but a lot of collar jobs. a lot of jobs in the service sector. a more tom, you have positive view in that humans plus machines equals the best case scenario. what incentive is there for a company like ford or carrier, companyconditioning that has been such a hot button issue, what is the incentive for them to add automation at this point rather than keeping the jobs they have? >> well, you know, pure automation is basically a pain for us in many ways. we often try to escape it whenever we can. get an interactive voice response system and we yell, agent! press zero as quickly as we can. so i think most organizations will benefit more from an strategy of augmentation, you know, smart alongside smart machines. i don't deny that there will some job loss on the
margins. but i'm not quite as pessimistic is about how many and how quickly. >> so, martin, let's talk about kind of jobswhat you're seeing disappear and when. >> well, the basic rule is that any job that is on some level routine and predictable -- if you're coming to work, doing the same kinds of things over and over again, facing the same kinds of challenges, if another person could study a record of everything you've done in the that, figured on out how to do that job, then bet job is going to susceptible to machine learning, artificial intelligence, robotics. no one knows for sure when this is going to be a big impact but nextld estimate within the 10, 20 years, this is going to be perhaps quite disruptive. i think there are other people who have looked at this and come to a similar kind of conclusion. there's a very famous study done by researchers at oxford that came to the conclusion that about half the jobs in the u.s.
could potentially be automated within about 20 years. that's just a very rough you ane but it gives idea of the magnitude of this. >> so, tom, when you look at the statistics, it costs much less than a robot to do the same job as a human. same amount of manufacturing output for far you could today than a couple of decades ago. optimistic?ou so manufacturing jobs have been in decades.ow for >> they have. i think it's likely that there thosee some return of manufacturing businesses to the u.s. not a huge amount of jobs, i agree. but for centuries, you know, when we automated farms and factories, producing textiles in the 19th century, there were jobs for people who understood how the machines work, how do you configure them, them, improve them, and i think that will continue to be the case. exactly how many
jobs will go away when, as martin suggests, but if you look bank tellers,of there are just as many bank 1980,s now as we had in despite a.t.m.'s and despite online banking. the same number roughly. so this is a slow process. we humans often find other things to do. >> what kind of manufacturing jobs do you think could actually back to the united states? we know that a deal has been 1,000ith carrier to keep or so jobs in the united states. but it seems like these moretions are going to be one-offs. and you have folks out there saying, manufacturing jobs are never coming back to the u.s. anytime soon. apple is never gonna manufacture their phones in the united states. did, theif they process would be highly automated. it would be highly automated. jobs, working be on those robots, repairing them, configuring them in the first the work.o
300t's not going to occupy million people in the united states. but if you're assiduous about learning about these technologies and how you can add value to them, i think you'll be fine. martin, you think that a full-on worker revolt is on the horizon? wonder, are some of the frustrations we saw that trump of theinto, the angst middle class, is that a sign willwhat you believe happen is in the process of happening? >> yeah, absolutely. i believe that it's maybe kind leading edge of the disruption that's coming. i think that the people that voted for trump and were enthusiastic about that, they would be much more likely to ore to global trade immigration. they may not understand the technology is already playing a role in the situation they're in. but really, technology has been the primary culprit in destroying good, solid middle class jobs chg and instead, what
we're seeing is the generation of fast-food jobs and jobs at walmart, things like that. one of the leading forces causing that to happen. it's going to accelerate, become a much bigger issue in the future. i think it will lead to absolutely -- to political, social upheaval, if we don't figure out a way to adapt to that. >> here's a question i'd like to you.oth of tom, i'll start with you. if you're in high school today, what do you tell this high study to pursue? is it computer science or bust? tom? >> well, i think everybody in high school and college should between onechoice of two basic directions. one, do you want to work with all day? you know, work alongside them as a colleague basically? not want to work with technology at all? i think there will be jobs for want to kind of step aside from these technologies and do work that's highly creative and empathetic and totally unstructured. jobs in ourthe
society, i think, will involve working closely with technology. the betterrobably bet, if you can tolerate working with smarty machines. >> so, martin, what would you tell a high school senior right now? >> one of the paradoxes of this is that people always think, if or work with computers you're working with information, that that's going to make you safer. actually, the reverse can be because a lot of those white collar jobs, information based jobs, are easier to automate. includel, at one point, computer programming. the safer areas are going to be skilled trades jobs, electricians, plumbers. it's still science fiction to be able to build a robot that can autoat an electrician, an mechanic, a nurse, for example. those jobs require a lot of mobility, dexterity, problem solving, interaction with people.
then on the more skilled side, youdriven really want to be doing something creative, building something new, as opposed to doing something routine or you want to have that deep kind of interaction with other people, with a patient in health care or maybe with a business-type relationship, you know, if you're in the commercial sphere. but you need something that's routine and predictable and repetitive. >> interesting. right, martin ford, tom "onlyort, author of humans need apply." this is going to be a great debate over the years. another story, the state-sponsored hackers who a digital bomb over the last two weeks have damaged systems at the saudi central bank. targeted at least six government entities with mall "liked malware linked to iran.
mattis's reputation, when it comes to issues like security and cyber security in particular. know about some of his views on these issues? who has he is someone spoken about these issues for quite some time, even during his tenure in the obama administration. he is someone who has raised the issue of cyber threats, as far as back as -- as far back as publicly, and perhaps further. but cyber security is something that president-elect trump has to be one of his top priorities within the first 100 administration. so this is something i would expect both of them to work on in the new administration. very recently in active duty, unusual nor a defense secretary. desire tohere's a have someone who has spent more time in civilian life at the top, so there can be a balance of power between them and the military. how do you think this will view on warfare and cyber warfare, technology on the
that he'sven experienced this so recently? >> the sources that i speak with trump transition team tell me that they viewed his recent military experience asset, and part of the reason why president-elect chose him for this position, they think that his frequency with the latest national security risks, including cyber security, are part of the reason that they wanted to choose him. so they view that as an asset. but you are right. it is a bit rare. >> now, state-sponsored hackers have conducted a series of on saudi arabia over the last couple of weeks. is this something we can expect trump or mattis himself to comment on? thee haven't seen much of transition office weighing in on issues of the day. just -- we hear that president-elect trump did reach out to the taiwan government, which is incredibly rare. we haven't heard hutc much from.
i would expect them to weigh afterthose types offishes inauguration -- types of issues after inauguration. are we expecting through the weekend and into monday when to additional cabinet appointments? >> well, of course the big meeting for bloomberg's audience is of course the goldman goingive, gary cohn, he's to be meeting with trump this weekend. the next big post is secretary state. obviously lots of rumors, everyone from mitt romney to thetor bob corker, republican from tennessee. he'll continue on his thank you tour. yesterday we were with him in cincinnati. he's headed to north carolina on tuesday. >> all right. kevin, our bloomberg politics reporter. thanks so much for that update. check in with you again on monday. pandora and sirius xm. ya's shares surged on reports of a potential
satelliten by the radio provider. sirius chairman approached board to express renewed interest in taking over the company. approach didn't include an offer price, but offer pa pandora. pandora is said not to have responded to sirius's latest offer yet. weekend, a russian a russian billionaire joins bloomberg for the award ceremony in silicon valley. we will bring you that interview, sunday evening in new york, 9:45 a.m. monday morning in hong kong. ♪
firearm fire eye. the company says materials stolen by russian intelligence were promoted by fake online accounts and personas. joining us is the director of threat intelligence. laura, what exactly did you about the social media propaganda part of this operation and how it worked? >> yes. thanks. so the social media aspect that we've seen over the summer in particular is just one of the multi-pronged approaches that russia engage in over time in what they would call warfare.on what we've seen, like this that these personas are adopted and appropriated real-life type of groups. then the message they spread is much aligned to what russia their foreign policy. >> so were they trying to convince people to change their just reinforce anti-clinton views? far more indirect.
a lot of what we see is the personas, and a lot of this happens on twitter, that fro with this to and journalists, is about spreading particular message. for instance, information about the syria conflict, nato-ukraine topic, the u.s. presidential elections, particular angles of tweet will be sent to key influencers. get the message will amplified by the network of how many different users that individual or group is connected to. message, andis the in this case over the summer, one that promoted a lot of the discussion or promoted the , and the d.n.c. hack, that would be the core piece that these groups would be the way that they spread their message out to key influencers. your chairman talked about this as a sort of dawning of russia as a cyber power, anything we've seen
before. russia, of course, has completely denied connection to this. how confident are you or how were you able to prove that is indeedtelligence behind this? >> well, so this is a sustained campaign that we've seen for years. what's really different about this summer is the groups that we've long tracked, the russian government or believe to be sponsored by the russian government, exhibit a couple different qualities. one is that the tools they use have been written in the time zone, written in russian. they have the evidence of tools that are built to last. so pal ware that -- malware that gets in the system, that can be time, someone who is really practiced and sophisticated behind the build on these. other key elements, like the types of targets these groups go after and we start to see a pattern emerge, over seven, eight, nine, ten years haveow these groups perpetrated activity aligned to russia. this summer is different, we're now seeing
activity directed to the u.s. in this case, directed at, how do you get at questioning one of the core institutions, voting? and that your vote matters? that's been very much the focus groups we've tracked over time. >> now, there's also been within the united states from computer scientists that the election results show the potential that they may have been hacked. believe't necessarily they were, but that at least they should be verified. any evidence that the election results themselves were hacked? don't have instances where we've seen that. that i'll leave to the election others whond also to have direct evidence. that's really what's key here. we need to see direct evidence that, through a network investigation or through the people looking at that network. our side, we haven't seen evidence of widespread tampering or hacking of the election.
we have seen is this influence campaign over time work ofthink is the groups that would be working on behalf of the russian government. thisw, with russia taking to a new level, using new tactics, what does this mean for the future of cyber warfare and how the united states might retaliation? >> information warfare, this concept that states can engage in the way that minds are melded, in the way that you a perception around policy or around a particular regime, this isn't something scenehe u.s. has long has -- a russian concept or one that they would rather not adopt in terms of regulating around it or creating any sort of ban. for the lastu.n., 20 years or so russia's long in an information weapons ban. the use of information to change outcome.c the u.s. has long seen that as the potential to bridge unfree
and first amendment rights. so how do we start to deal with the reality that information can a weapon, that information in this domain in particular, cyber varietyan be used in a of different ways, more than just hacking? but this is about minds and how we think about that. and take appropriate steps to have stability in the differentips between countries. >> all right. fascinating stuff. director of threat intelligence. thank you. much more ahead. a reminder, "bloomberg technology" is moving to a new time. liveing monday, we'll be at 2 p.m. pacific. 6 a.m. in hong kong. this is bloomberg. ♪
cell phone video shows michael 50-year-olding walter scott several times in the back, after scott got out of away.r and tried to run the remains of several brazilians who died in a plane theirin colombia are on way home. brazilian and colombian soldiers cargo their caskets into planes this evening. the bodies will be transported to the brazilian city where the team that had been traveling is based. 19 members were a part of the club. 71 people in total died. ireland's prime minister says the u.k.'s decision to leave the european union is in stark contrast in its history as a forward-looking player on the stage. >> the different countries -- a reallyas always important member of the european union and was a voice for change forwas a voice for a vision the future.
obviously the decision in brexit as a shock, as something i didn't want to see, something that i didn't want. but i have to respect it, it's a democratic decision, so we get on with it. >> kenny also said the u.k. to pick andowed choose, as it prepares to leave the bloc. has hit north korea with a fresh batch of sanctions continuedt calls provocative behavior. it will freeze assets of some entities and people with the kimd ties to jong-un regime. north korea is promising to retaliate. russian emergency crews are combing the mountains near the mongolia for the debris of a cargo spaceship that crashed minutes after launch. they are using drones to search for fragments. the crash happened seven minutes after it blasted off from the space complex. putinn president vladimir
says the attack at charlie hebdo's office last year is on the kremlin's crackdown on art and free speak. spoke on the council on culture today. should takecials action on images they deem controversial to avoid a similar attack. today marks one year since the terror attack in san bernardino, colorado. observed ahere moment of silence at the moment the attacks began. community members also gathered memory of the 14 people killed and 22 wounded. embarked on a ride through the city, marking one mile for each victim. ♪ >> this is "bloomberg technology." i'm emily chang. its go pro slashing workforce to twitter having yet ahead of products, there's been
no shortage of tech news this week. giles. us now, tom thank you for stopping by. into the holidays. i want to start with twitter. twitter has hired a new head of product. keith coleman. he worked at google for like a decade, oversaw products at g-mail. elevated him into this position. people inf many, many this job. >> a small number of years. door,ike a resolving except they never come back. >> why is this guy gonna be the sauce? >> so he came from google. so you're going to sprinkle some things.google dust on >> the last one came from google as well. seen as asaw g-mail, pretty successful product, in a very short amount of time. everybody switched. but almost earn switched. in some ways, he's got that. at his back. wind
this is a very big hurdle to overcome at twitter. is theestion of, what twitterproduct and will be able to make this appealing to a bigger user base? it's a very big, tall order. >> so there was sort of an twitter, this guy has only tweeted 150 times ever, you know. maybe isn't as passionate about the product as one would like. spark capital tweeted, i was horrified by the twitterverse reaction to keith coleman accepting the v.p. of product job today. pessimistic, rude and embarrassing. maybe it's the best thing, if you think about it. twitter needs to appeal to a broader audience. who is it used by? politicians, donald trump, lot of journa journalists. we're such snobs about it. that much!sn't tweet he doesn't know how to tweet! right? here's a guy who doesn't use it
lot. twitter needs to appeal to that kind of an audience. >> to tom's point, this is the hardest position to fill at twitter. an outsider might bring much perspective. and it could have interesting features integrated into twitter, bringing friends together, quickly getting a mass of people together to talk about a subject. things twitter wants to achieve. >> i'm thinking of daniel graph also, i remember, when he got the job, he tweeted like nine times. didn't work out. i think he was there for less than a year. >> no! ha ha! you're absolutely right. it's hard to argue with the uphill challenge that anybody has right now at twitter. there's a lot of change right now. they've got a c.e.o. who is time.ng his they just elevated anthony into, making a big push video, which is in some ways -- we're starting to see results of that. thursday night football, a lot of people still tuning in to that. it's, again, it's widening the appeal.
kind of product -- what does he do to make it appeal to audience?ger no one thinks these guys are going to become facebook. to become thatg useful. but it's got to appeal to a broader audience and widen the for advertisers. >> let's go on to news that hasn't actually happened yet. that fitbit might by pebble, the smartwatch maker. latest?the >> reports are saying that the deal will be between $34 million which lower than apparently they had received offers from before, from reportedly $750 million and then the c.e.o. of that. rebuffed this is just another story that shows that it's really hard to start-up, ae hardware company. pebble was the darling at knick kickstarter. so many enthusiasts. debt.ey're struggling, in >> well, apple came out with a watch in between. >> apple came out with a watch
between. they have some good assets. that's why they're looking pebble. they can't go off and -- they're also going to get the operating some of their i.p. >> let's talk about some of these device makers and what over the holiday season. not only are we seeing this with pebble. has cut 15% of jobs. there's a lot of questions about how well the new cameras are actually sell. is this part of a broader trend? be a very is going to ugly holiday season for fitbit what the most recent earnings calls showed. to renaissance may be coming an end at this point. i mean, if you look at go pro, they had a bunch of production problems. they missed karma. delayed shipping, had to recall drones. >> they're falling out of the sky. >> and i think people were shocked. like, wait, you only
shipped that many? that was surprising. we look at fitbit, they also had production problems too. blaminge companies are it on, you know, we have to deal with global manufacturers. it's a very complex process. know, it just shows that these are not companies sky are going to achieve high evaluations that they once had. >> i think anything that competes with the smartphone is in rough territory this holiday season. i have a camera here, everything for many of these tasks, right here. what you do want to look at -- bearish on all hardware. look at amazon starting to have with -- >> google home as well. i know some folks who are getting that for gifts getting that for gifts for the holidays. >> vr. i think people are increasingly becoming comfortable with it. it is compatible with the known. i think saupg has done -- samsung has done some smart things there.
hardware atut all the holiday season. just very selective. >> thoughts on samsung, another device maker, also in the midst of a corporate governance nightmare. expressed willingness to break the company up. this is what investors want. ist is the latest and what likely? >> so elliott is pushing for a lot of changes. investor, tried to block a merger last year. didn't go through. more. he kicked them when they were done. they were -- when they were down. came in, askede for a lot of money. whatng gave him a third of he asked for, a third of the amount, return to shareholders, of three board seats. they also said we will consider split-up. breaking up is very complicated, into an operating company and a company. so they're going to take six months or so to think about it. the sense we have is that it's happen.o more transparency.
he wants shareholders to be able to understand, what is samsung, work, what are these different companies? that supposedly is going to visibility. >> there are two months on from massive recall. they've got smartwatches. how are they going to do over the holidays? has yet come out with a wow product, a must-need product. nice to have products. i don't think that samsung's going to gadgets are be any different than fitbit or gopro. >> thank you so much. guys, first stop... stopping by.r drone makers, coming up. they are working on ways to fly free, without the need of a to watch their every move. we'll focus on qualcomm's latest project, next. this is bloomberg. ♪
>> the maker of snapchat looking to claim more users globally. as the company prepares to go public, it is hiring more staff in london. they recently released a four-story office space and opened a paris office in october. snapchat's 150 million daily active users are predominantly gaininge but it's popularity globally. a spokesperson for snap said it has 50 million daily active users in europea europe.
innovations in drone technology. one of the main hurdles is the current rule that operators need in their line of sight. qualcomm may have a solution, as annbloomberg tech reporter king reports. at qualcomm, the largest maker of cell phone chips, taking a tour of their lab.t growth in the smartphone market slow os. slows. cel cellou look at the network, they're handing off to different cell towers and communicationst link. >> in simple terms then, that smartphone.ically a >> qualcomm's idea is that they connect to cell phone towers in the same way your cell phone does. toy want drones to be able fly miles away. the problem with letting drones
off the leash is that the f.a.a. has certain rules which means a human has to be in control and able to see them at all times. >> see it go? cell technology changer.a real game the research is done on the gadget level. they are fine-tuning drones so accidents don't happen. >> this allows the drone to fly safely in very confined spaces. >> as i keep exploring the growsnment, the map bigger. preventing me from going any farther. >> it's making a decision, i'm nota barrier there, going to do that? >> even though you're commanding me to do that, i'm saying no way. gonna do that. >> the f.a.a. has given qualcomm permission to test their cell drones on thed roof of its san diego headquarters. >> i'm not controlling it at
this time. it's totally hands off, automated flight. >> if you look around this whole we have a mix of the commercial buildings, we have residential. a rural environment. power lines, you name it, that the drone is going to have to navigate. >> qualcomm says it's done more than 500 flights so far without any incident. they can persuade the f.a.a. that these drones are safe to be on their own, we could be seeing these flying cell phones everywhere. bloomberg tech reporter, ann king there reporting. president barack obama has blocked a chinese company from semiconductor equipment supplier aixtron in germany. has a subsidiary in california and generates about of its sales domestically. it marks the third time in 20
hass that the white house rejected a sale because of a potential security risk. smartphoneimagine a app that lets anyone take a picture of anyone and find that person on social networks. we will bring you the full story, next. bloombergeekend on television, we'll bring you our best interviews from the week, our exclusive with mexico's richest man. he explains why at&t's aggressive pricing strategies in mexico are costing the company lot of money.e a tune in this saturday for the best of bloomberg tech. this is bloomberg. ♪
>> turning to the comings and goings in silicon valley, bloomberg's news reports, one of executives in the apple health division, has left the company. worked at after fa bet. significantlyrown since it introduced the apple watch in 2014. expand therking to health tracking software into a tool.gnostic inside russia, over the past few years, a wealth of entrepreneurs yielded a new generation of world-class tech companies. facialhem, a next-level recognition app called "find face." intook the app for a spin
moscow. >> this year, russia has built rewires our social fabric. for all of human history, when stepped sno into a park like strolling around, you've been in public but unknown. lost in the stream of friendly faces. until now. ♪[music] >> hi! would you mind if i take a photo of your face? bit ofng to do a little an experiment. >> can i take a photo of your face? photo ofjust take a you, and then we see if it can find your profile? >> okay. >> it doesn't work on facebook, because they don't let you database. >> find faces, it lets you take new friend or a complete stranger. in a few seconds, it scans all photos from vk, the
thenan facebook knockoff, finds a match. >> all right. let's see what happens. ♪[music] >> oh! it's me! definitely! >> it's me! >> yes, it's me. so differentair is in the photo. ha ha ha! >> definitely finds me. so it works. >> yes. yes. >> it's really cool! >> do you think it's strange? but cool!range, youou'll take a photo so can find... >> you guys like it? it! almost don't like >> ha ha! >> so if i forgot if this is my can check it with my phone. >> find it. find it. >> this year, find face took its america. to through something called the mega-face challenge. there would be google and a lot of other face-spotting soft ware. find out how they did it... >> nice to meet you. >> i went to meet the
algorithm's creator at the office of his company. >> do you mind showing me how the technology works a little bit? >> yes. >> can we try me? my russiane brethren, my cousins. >> ha ha ha! ranked in order by who they think looks the most like me? >> yes. a 60-year-olde with a machine gun. another guy with a gun. you somethinghow else. >> why am i a bear? >> these are things that there some... >> sometimes it's difficult to why they came up, but... >> he programmed a network that face-finding differently than others. he fed it thousands of image matches. months oft six training, voila! faces.ned to read
>> if you can find the exact moren, it opens a lot interesting cases, like, for can search for criminals, among... creeped out yet? maybe we should be. they have already signed a cityact with the moscow police. though he won't talk about it. he says they already have with other law enforcement agencies, both inside and outside russia. it's easy to imagine what the f.b.i. or its russian counterpart, the fsb, could do with this kind of technology. >> so it's a little bit right, because anyone can identify you now? >> yeah. >> in a crowd. >> i would say that the implications of this are very scary. careful if yoube cape go in the streets or on facebook social network.
you're open to being recognized. >> this idea that you're not anonymous when you walk the somebody cane, just snap your photo and identify who you are, you must about that when you were developing the technology. >> they can take all the information about you. it's a battle between technology privacy. win.ess is technology will >> bloomberg's ashley there, reporting. can catch more of hello world this weekend on bloomberg television. edition oft for this "bloomberg technology." this weekend, we'll be live from prize awardough ceremony with tech's biggest executives, including mark zuckerberg and sergei bren. yurill sit down with
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