tv Bloomberg Business Week Bloomberg September 16, 2017 7:00am-8:00am EDT
carol: welcome to "bloomberg businessweek." oliver: we are coming to you from inside the magazine said quarters in new york. carol: the new front in the war against credit card fraud. oliver: more than 100 million accounts hacked. welcome sex after the equifax breach. -- what comes next after the equifax breach. all that ahead on "bloomberg businessweek." ♪ carol: we are here with editor
in chief megan murphy. a story on synthetic identity theft. i had not heard of this. megan: it is a really troubling and quite spooky story about how fraudsters are doing something different than just stealing existing identities. they are actually compiling their own identity. what is so fascinating is it's a long game. this can take months, even years to pay off. they have to keep establishing the identity, keep applying for credit for the ultimately cash out. oliver: it is like a weird ponzi scheme of credit fraud. what is interesting is you guys detailed somebody in the story, the actual degree to which they are able to do this. $340,000 using credit cards. a fleet of vehicles. how does it get so out of control? megan: they basically try to come up with social security numbers they might be going to be used that have not been used,
or they take an existing number. they will use it to apply for credit with no address. the credit card companies frequently reject these applications. but over time with the volume of applications they are making, at some point they get a card. they are quite careful. they establish monthly services, pay monthly bills. then once they have pushed up the credit limit to a degree for they can charge $25,000 here, $15,000 there, they will go full push and a severe. carol: 20% of credit card loans they go better these kind of loans. megan: to companies think they are struggling consumers so they are for them ways to address their debt not knowing the entire time this is essentially fraudsters trying to up their limits of the maximum amount to maximize the amount they can defraud. oliver: incentive is there to figure these people out because this will be a major loss point for them. megan: credit card companies do so much of this algorithmically.
i'm sure everyone gets a phone call. the algorithm can't really account for some of the behaviors being done. they are masterminded by human beings who developed a way of weakness in the fence. -- theirtraditional traditional checks and balances are not keeping up with the way to slice and dice profiles across different companies with a free and easy access to credit we all have. carol: is about treating you identities. megan: what is terrifying about it for credit card providers is a lot of existing checks we have to freeze our credit or protect identities or the careful about passwords, this is an entirely different kind of attack. oliver: i'm not super comfort it by the idea of people conjuring real social security numbers. the other thing that scares me is the massive hack that happened at equifax. this goes hand-in-hand. it's a big deal this week.
had you guys choose to approach this and what angle to take? eyes are on the potential effects of this. megan: on the numbers first came out, people's eyes nearly popped out of their heads. one third of americans. we were just talking about high-tech fraud. this is quite a low-tech fraud, in the sense the system we set up is very vulnerable to people being and a hack -- able to hack into it. it is based on 19 digit number, are social security number. how much of your life in credit profile still revolves around that one number. that is fascinating. this is not really what it was intended for. none of us sign up to equifax or any of them. we got it when got these credit cards. they do this hugely important unwillingnd we are
participants in this whole system. and how much is at stake in this entire system we have created. released a statement saying about 143 million americans might have had some other data exposed. equifax was quick to say they didn't have evidence of the deepl d credit files -- credit files may have been accessed. they lost things like names, addresses, and crucially social security numbers. if you have that data and you're an identity thief, you have the raw material you can use to piece together an imposter identity. oliver: name, address, social security number. pat: that's enough to be able to do a credit application. that is the kind of identity theft people need to worry about the most.
it sometimes gets a little confusing. we've all had the spirit to find better credit card number was stolen. that's one of the easiest things in the world to deal with. credit card companies have to make you whole. that is quick and easy. what is not quick and easy is when someone is pretending to be you and it begins to pollute your reputation and credit profile. people isor a lot of a huge hassle and can go on for years. carol: we've seen stories of people whose identity seven stolen, it takes years sometimes the correct. you kick off this story and said you don't need to do a thing to do -- you should not have to do a damn thing. who gave them the right to protect our information or have all our critical information?
pat: the banks to borrow from give them the information. that is kind of the core relationship. thes a relationship between banks and vendors and people who give up credit. these companies in reputation management, very few people say, what i would really like is to have these companies keeping an eye on me. we do kind of accepted, unless you want to live up to financial grid. --equifax,ity most people were like i know that. what do they do? we probably have a loose relationship with it. you apply for something, for you check your credit score and you get a report from equifax. what access do they have and how do people use them? pat: their core business is maintenance of credit files.
they are one of three companies that do that. actually there are more than three companies, will we often talk about the big three. experian and trans union are the others. are basic businesses when people and to check you out, of line for credit card, carla, info -- car loan, employment, renting an apartment, they are companies people can go to and find out if you are a person that pays his or her bills. there is another separate business which is credit scores. they do the math and reduce that number. it is a slightly different thing than a credit report but it is part of this echo system of companies in that business. oliver: imagining the equifax hack as a cover. it's an easy call. 130 million people who have been exposed.
had you choose to represent this in an image? rob: hacking stories are a challenge because they are abstract and there are a lot of things you can do they can follow the cliche territory. one of the biggest hacks in the country's history, we wanted to get the volume of that. what we thought of doing was showing and massive crowd of people and putting a headline over it which says "hacker's paradise." we are all pretty much vulnerable to this. carol: when you choose a crowd photo, unidentifiable, what crowd? rob: we look at a lot of crowd photos from sporting events. we needed to make sure you cannot see any jerseys or weird stuff happening. we had to choose one that had kind of a generic feel, but was close enough you can sell these are actually people. oliver: it looks like a where 's waldo.
♪ welcome back to "bloomberg businessweek." oliver: you can also find us online at business week.com. tens of thousands of people in russia's heartland have marched in anti-kremlin protests. henry: russia is suffering economically. it has just climbed out of the longest recession in two decades. during this period of two or three years, income seven falling. the gap has been growing wider
between the rich and poor, between regions and the big cities. that is what the story is about. how ordinary people have been the strong core of support for president putin and are starting to get more and more dissatisfied. oliver: we look at this upcoming election in russia. we sort of dismissed russian elections because we assume if vladimir putin runs, he is going to win. you have interesting anecdotes and interesting descriptions of what people are upset about. give us an idea of what you took away from this story and why people are upset. henry: you are absolutely right. elections in russia are not like classic elections. this is one that will happen in march. vladimir putin is obviously going to win with a strong majority.
however, the stories i've heard in this city lead me to believe that his support is going to start decreasing over time. this is a problem because ultimately he has got to deliver. when he wants to continue staying in power for another six years, which is a long period of time and then have some kind of quarterly handoff of power, you have increasing dissatisfaction from people who feel the system has let them down. one main character lost a job after 23 years from what he said was retribution for speaking out about problems of safety at this factory. twice andd to putin was ignored. he feels personally the trade. carol: what i found fascinating is you point out tens of thousands of people have inticipated in dozens of --
marches in cities across the country. wins.wants to run, hea people are speaking out. can they do that safely? henry: a lot of those demonstrations, people got arrested. some of them got lengthy jail time after they were accused of assaulting police officers. what is interesting is the role of young people in this whole movement. young people who feel that they don't have any career prospects and the current system is not one which they can benefit from. they are much less afraid even than older generations. that is interesting, and the geographical scale of the protests. previously it was mostly in big cities. now you see it across the country. carol: populism is making small inroads in germany. oliver: german voters are likely
to stick to the center in next week selection. mark: the election is on september 24. normally you will get exit polls and an idea quickly. merkel and hera party are so far ahead that one would expect to know the result pretty early. exit polls in germany are normally pretty accurate. he is competing with the social democrats. they have for decades been the number one, number two party together with the cdu. the head of that party is the lead candidate, martin schulz. he used to be head of the european parliament and came back to take over and run in this race. he is not doing that well. the cdu is well ahead. what is interesting is the
social democrats have not collapsed. this is really a pretty normal election with the main traditional parties fighting it out on pretty normal -- the same kind of agendas and promises and messages they would have made in previous elections. carol: we have seen populist forces really pushing back against the political establishment globally. we have seen it in the united states and other elections around the world. that is not the case in germany. how come? mark: that is what is so fascinating. there are a number of reasons. what we found was the most interesting was really that germans know they have won a globalization. one number that stands out is german exports is a percentage of the economy that accounts for
46% of the economy, roughly four times the amount of the u.s. similarly, you still have more than a quarter, 20% of them -- 28% of employment is in manufacturing. much higher than the u.s. you have thousands of middle sized, family-owned companies with their employees in germany. all of those employees know their paycheck is dependent on global trade. they know they won. the idea that they can sell -- win votes by saying kill a free trade just does not work in germany. oliver: the art of trump's tax strategy. carol: the business of making big box as natural disasters get costlier. oliver: this is "bloomberg businessweek." ♪
carol: you can listen to us on radio on sirius xm channel 119, 1 at130 in new york, 106. them in boston, and am 960 in the bay area. oliver: and in asia on the bloomberg radio plus app. carol: peter coy explains president trump's possible negotiating strategy when it comes to tax reform. peter: he has a goal of cutting the income tax rate to 15%. we go through the math on that. let's say somehow congress manages to raise $2 trillion in extra revenue, cutting selected taxes, reducing various credits and deductions. that would be a lot. less say they've managed to do that. they can't give it all to corporate income tax rate individuals expect to be treated
equally. let's say half those individuals. now you have half, another $1 trillion for business taxation. cut that in half and give some of the two individuals, people and businesses taxes individuals. that would be like mom-and-pop business, partnerships, anybody that is a pass through. now you are done at $500 billion devoted to cutting corporate income tax rate, assuming you want to keep the total revenue the same. 35% would buy you down from to 30%, which is a long shot from what trump says he wants. oliver: we are talking about this from the perspective of starting with the dollar amount you want to generate in terms of revenue by shrinking tax breaks and applying that to the tax code to figure out where that would lead. is or not another way to approach it? here is the right we want to get out, let's see what this
generates. peter: the president is not thinking about, how can i comply with every rule on the books? that is not the way his mind works. congress has set these rules for itself. it did it over the course of a few decades because it realized it had a propensity to overspend and under tax and run big budget deficits. for years they carefully cobbled together these self-imposed dieter tries to prevent themselves from binging. the question is will those rules stand up to the incredible pressure that congress feels under to deliver something to taxpayers? trump promised tax cuts and his campaign. republicans control both the house and senate. most of the people who are running for office round that
platform. yet it is bumping up against the reality of heavy spending. the most recent is the two hurricanes. -- that are adding to the need. the deficit hawks are looking and saying, no, the last thing you want to do is make matters worse by coupling the vast increase in spending with less revenue. oliver: in the business section, don't call them storm chasers. carol: businesses are wrecking of billions after hurricanes, tornadoes and other catastrophes. >> after these storms there is a variety of contractors who show up. some crossed state lines. they go to where the storms are. they vary from various established big players to scammers, fly-by-night folks. mid0-tieron a
contractor based in houston. he has traveled all over the south for hurricanes over the last 30, 40 years. this time he came right to his doorstep, his own neighborhood was flooded. he goes out there. withts rid of the water water vacuums. then he brings in the humidifiers and fans to dry it out. treats the mold in hopes he is the contract to reconstruct the house, which is much bigger than the mediation contract. carol: as you point out in your story, i think this used to be kind of an anomaly. disasters the nothing to happen so often. for some of these guys and contractors, it has become steady business. it seems we have one disaster
after another. >> the ones i talked to have a record revenue. they are coming more often. they are kind of -- some of them are strange. in north texas in august they are dealing with softball sized hail. just strange stuff. there are big storms in addition that are happening more frequently. they have a lot of work, more than they can handle. oliver: this is something often kind of challenging is a journalistic cover because we want to obviously convey the seriousness of all these events and the lives affected by it. at the same time we are thinking about the element for how the economy responds and where there are opportunities people sees on. it seems like the folks in this business are well aware of that balance as well. >> i think it is tricky. frank jones.
he has a company called cavalry construction. he is the person i followed around. i could tell he felt for the people, the victims. it is his own hometown, his own neighbors. he is aware of the issues. at the same time there is a great opportunity. this is his business. ultimately we need people to come and and rebuild after storms. that question i think some people have is, our people taking advantage of this situation, charging too much? frank would say these are market conditions after the storm. prices are going to be higher. labor is going to be higher. people could just leave his job site a customer also pays better. materials costs go way up. carol: how to fast-track united
in chief make and to talk about some more must reads. let's go to the finance section. bitcoin, a weird twist what we are talking about north korea. megan: it is a strange twist. this has to go the developing political situation in north korea, and the effort to ramp up economic sanctions on the country in the wake of their continued testing of ballistic missile and nuclear testing programs. they have so far failed to have that much of a weight. the country is already sanctioned so much and is impoverished. what they are finding is as the sanctions continue to scale up, not as far as the u.s. once, we have north korean hackers trying large quantities of bitcoin in other countries as a possible cryptocurrency solution to some of the sanctions. carol: and they have been successful at this? megan: probably a lot more successful than we know. it is so hard to trace and the
cryptocurrency field. the transparency is not the greatest. it is a market that is difficult to track at the best of times. it is harder to track all we have hacking possibilities. when we have contingencies and north korea doing something like this. how transparent are people that are being hacked. what we know and been able to get access to is probably a small sampling of what they actually have. oliver: focusing on the economics of bitcoin, whether this is positive or negative, i feel like you can interpret it either way. this is not going to be good for bitcoin because you know have potential for the government to look at this and say if sanctions are not working, how do we get around that? it obviously lance credence to this being a shadow currency. -- you could make the argument this does the selfish bitcoin as an alternative currency form and it
has demand for people in absence of real money. there waspside, another story from jamie dimon calling it a fraud and said he would fire any trader. he compared it to the two local phenomena. ulip bulbiment -- t phenomena. every time we talk about it going away and is a fraud and a scam, the market continues to be the market. when you put it with block chain and other technologies there is no question there is appetite for cryptocurrency. the question is if this will be what it is or something almost totally different than the market we are looking at now. i think that remains to be seen. carol: they are beginning to write it off, something else happened. speaking of markets, you guys the visa program that
allows some immigrants to become permanent residents in the u.s. and some question is if you are selling the opportunity to become a resident. megan: the program has gotten more controversial in recent years. that is because of the rise of immigrants from china. it is involved in the political cycle with jerry kushner's buildings -- jared kushner's buildings getting funded in the program. the projects it has gone to fund don't seem to be giving the kind of development that this kind of program was intended to help rural communities with infrastructure projects. a lot of it when it too pricey manhattan real estate, real estate investments elsewhere, movie financing. some very bad movies frankly. is this how the immigration system should be?
america is not the only country that has a system like this in place for people are allowed to make investments to gain citizenship. we are not the only ones that do this. is just this program has proven quite controversial. oliver: you guys have chronicled this very well. it's probably the second or third time we've talked about it. themore we talk about it more i feel there will be a public push back against it. is a: political -- there political sentiment around this. nothing in washington is important until people are on tv talking about it. one of the issues with the program is well america be the place for people want to immigrate to give the restrictions we are putting in place in the trump administration. china is also clamping down on the ability of money to move outside of china. we talk about how people have to cobble together $50,000 to get out of the country.
weather would become less desirable because it's more difficult over time, that's one of the biggest shifts we will see. oliver: right now the business is certainly booming. >> this is the type of program that basically allows people from abroad to get visas, green cards in the u.s. in exchange for investing and development projects in the u.s. it was initially started as a way to promote investment in underserved areas, world populations, infrastructure projects. it largely went unused. over time developers in big cities figured out ways to kind distressedies seem and use this type of financing to build a lot of high-end commercial real estate. three quarters of the program goes to real estate type investments now. an aspiring immigrant can put in a loan of typically about
$500,000. if that goes to a project that creates -- calculated at 10 jobs, they can qualify to get this visa. it is a conditional visa and can overtime become a permanent green card. oliver: they don't want to see my people can buy visas. they said investors have to have skin in the game and do some kind of -- have some investment at risk. a new investment that we go to places that otherwise would not get help. let's build a factory in iowa, was built infrastructure, toll bridge, whatever it may weather has not been investment already. brother's high unemployment and things like that. over time developers figured out ways -- you look like gerrymandering. they would draw boundaries of areas.eas -- rural
they can draw it however they want as long as it is contiguous. with you look at the census tracts in this crazy serpentine area, it turns out the unemployment threshold is high enough. yes, you may grab parts of the bronx, clady were building the structure -- you were building the structure on billionaires row in manhattan. carol: there is this great chart. it says, you want to move to the united states? are you rich? if so, go to your fixer. what is a fixer? karen: china has developed something unique with your immigration visas. they are folks in china to set up shop. they have offices all over the country. they basically connect the two projects in the u.s. to invest with. they help you figure out your paperwork.
they help connect you with banks and help you transfer your money out of the country. they help you find real estate when you move there. these fixers are the kind of marketing arm of the developers in the u.s. is a wild west. there are handfuls that have a huge presence, pentatonix small ones that either work as contractors or on their own. it is almost a chaotic market. some operate in very sophisticated ways and have hundreds of employees. some are just almost individual actors. they recruit people, do the advertising campaigns. they slam each other on social media in china and try to theuit the investors, immigrant investors for these projects. carol: by some of the most developed land in the south remains a parking lot. oliver: and india's market shock therapy. carol: "bloomberg businessweek this is "bloomberg businessweek ."
♪ tover: welcome back "bloomberg businessweek." carol: you can find us online at businessweek.com. developer is the along peachtree street. erry covance dewberry capital, and they develop some of the best land in the south, specifically in atlanta. for many reasons he has decided to not to develop any of this land. is a seinfeldian tale. a developer who does not develop. oliver: i love that you bring in the larry david mentality.
let's paint a picture because part of the story -- is a great andy about a person, john, about a city that is becoming a big metropolis, atlanta. why does a guy like john dewberry have so much opportunity? >> atlanta has a growing insanely. it was the 23rd largest metro area. is now the ninth largest metro area. there are tons of building going on. and has become a real hub for fortune five companies that h -- hub for fortune 500 companies. there is if it is to attract workers, to attract people to the city center. the real estate is quite valuable. onhappens to have gotten in the early side and made some huge purchases very early on.
he has decided to essentially sit and wait and see what happens before doing anything. it has been very controversial in the city of atlanta. carol: why is he waiting? bret: we don't entirely nothing answer. he is kind of an artist. when he sets his mind to working on a building he wants it to be amazing, incredible. he is looking to leave a legacy with the products -- projects he takes on. carol: it is not just about filling up a building. bret:'s line is it is hard to build a beautiful shopping center. that is what he wants to do now. the other reason is if you let everyone build around you and you have this real estate, gets more and more valuable. you start to see what else has been built and you can say given y, and z.s do x, he started as quarterback for
georgian tech in the 1980's. fan of football. met his wife in a skybox. basically what happened was he did a stint in the canadian football league. he took $40,000, started investing in shopping centers. got some really good anchor tenants. did more of these in and is now worth $700 million. oliver: india's prime minister is known for baby several forms. he is the real the world's fastest growing economy in the short term. the first of two major reforms that happened in the last year, and they came by surprise. the idea was we are going to replace -- force people to swap out this high denomination currency note. in the process everyone that has
cash away from the eyes of the tax collectors is going to have to bring it out. otherwise the currency will be worthless. it was advertised as an economic reform. part of the intent was to crackdown on corruption. that was the first huge disruption. people have short time to go to banks and swap out their money. he saw photos of these long lines curling around blocks. the second was the introduction of any tax that replaced about 17 different taxes that india collects at state borders and different points of sale. those two things have been a huge adjustment for businesses and individuals. carol: what is india trying to do on a broader basis when it comes to their currency system? christina: is not so much with the currency system. it is about a companion of reforms. they are supposed to move india to a higher growth track.
they are trying to bring more of the shadow economy into the aboveground to approve tax collection. that they have more money to spend on things like schools and roads in areas where they have big deficiencies that affect repetitive next. -- competitiveness. corruption is a problem and a drain on the economy. i don't think anyone anticipated this double whammy which came close want to the other was going to take the toll on growth this year that it has. carol: give us some numbers in terms of what we see. india is a pretty dynamic economy, but it makes a big difference in terms of the type of growth it sees. christina: it was on track to be the fastest-growing major economy in the world. that title may not -- oliver: recently usurped by china. augustna: at the end of the latest data released shows growth had moved below 6% from
almost 8% a year earlier. that was an immediate reaction. in august, $1.7 billion was pulled out of india's stock market by foreign funds. local investors are still investing, which is an interesting story. the other thing that happened was it set up a trigger of investment banks, like cutting back their growth forecasts for the year. thing,apple's shiny new but will you pay $1000 for an iphone? oliver: hong kong's one-stop shop. "bloomberg is lyf businessweek." ♪
radio at sirius xm channel 119, 01 fm inin boston, 990 washington. carol: and in asia on the bloomberg radio plus app. oliver: apple is getting ready to sell the most expensive iphone ever. how much are you willing to pay for augmented reality? mark: there have been a lot of expectations about what they would introduce. seeing it live, how it's put together and get hands-on with the product is totally different than knowing or expecting what is a come. i think the iphone x was an oppressive launch. it was something they needed to do and it lived up to the expectations. apple finally embracing any type of phone design. oliver: give us the quick rundown on the specs. as this 5.8hone x
inch diagonal edge to edge screen. is bigger than the one on the plus model, the 7 plus and 8 plus. superslim around the edges. there is nothing on the bottom or top. they removed the home button. basically you are getting a bigger phone screen in a smaller overall size phone, which is very impressive. some of the chip work, the processor speed. a lot of the laptops in the markets these days are dual core or quad core. apple has a six core chip in a phone. is pretty impressive engineering work on the chip side. carol: is it worth $1000? we are like hitting this new price point for these smartphones. mark: it is a lot of money. as they wrote about, it is sort of a line in the sand.
it's a psychological barrier for a lot of people. seeing that $1000 price point being flashed onscreen, that's a big deal for a lot of people. for some people that is a month's worth of groceries or someone's salary. i think the high price point for a lot of people, especially when how they changed the capacity. for $1000, that the 64 gigabyte version. for some power users, the people that would want to buy this phone, that is not a lot of memory. you will want to upgrade to the .56 gigabyte model, at $1150 yes, it is very expensive. if you look at terms of price per month, it is between $50 and $55 per month on top your phone bill. that's a lot of money but it's a little easier to grasp. carol: does it cost so much more to manufacture?
is the higher price point justified by the capabilities and bells and whistles? mark: we have to look at their margins. apple likes to stick around the corporate margin average of 37.5%, 38% when they talk about the results on the earnings call. this phone makes it hard to manufacture. looking into the research and development time, they feel like they went margins of over 50% on this model. we won't know for sure until people start terron get a part in seeing what each component cost. having the same list deal case is an expensive edition. stainless steel is a higher in material. the constraints of manufacturing a design with slim bezels makes it difficult to make. they are taking into account the cost of all the phones that the throw the manufacturing line because they want to produce at their standards. there is a lot of factors going into this price and i think we will see more clearly when people start to create their own material and analysis to see if
it is worth a grand. carol: for fans of usc style fighting, hong kong has a new way of getting in shape without getting a black eye. >> i was in hong kong trying to do something different in the fitness world. a couple of people pointed me to this. it is this cool intersection of every traditional fighting that comes out of thailand, that this movement you are familiar with of boutique fitness and high-end bankers, lawyers, accountants and the occasional journalist looking for the latest and greatest fitness trend. oliver: it sounds like something that can pop up in tribeca. i guess the question is what is the difference? you have into classes in new york and after this class in hong kong. does it feel at the same type of thing? or is it a totally different realm? >> it feels similar.
they were moments where i could have been, from a look and feel standpoint, especially in the locker rooms, it is similar to york. to london or new these big cities have these ad hoc communities where folks are really getting to this. having said that, there was an element that felt a little bit more regional if you will. my instructor did not speaking this really. that changed the vibe. carol: tell me about your experience. what was the workout? jason: the workout is similar without all the blood and real hyper violence of what you see when you tune into ufc 950 or whatever it is on pay-per-view. you are doing some traditional punching and kicking.
it does feel different from a workout you are doing on a treadmill or anything like that. it is a bit of a different experience. businessweek is available on newsstands now. oliver: a lot of great international stories but great stuff in the pursuit section. carol: i'm fascinated by the story about going -- what is going on in russia. the division between the haves and have-nots. they are speaking out and what better living conditions, they want pensions, and they are protesting. i always thought he could i do that in russia but apparently they are. what did you like? oliver: the great research we did on the equifax story. this will affect so many people. a great story about how to take measures to prevent this in the future and how it happened to begin with. i also like cryptocurrencies and
♪ >> coming up on "bloomberg best," the stories that shaped the week in business around the world. damage from irma falls short of projections. >> numbers out of florida are not apocalyptic, merely bad. >> leaders on capitol hill are setting a date when the update next plan. the fed holds rates. and apple launches with stand fair. >> they really need to put the hammer down on the augmented reality think, something that is that x factor. >> goldman sachs says strategy to fix troubles. identified $5 billion, which has marginalizes of 30%. >> europe's a bank are preparing