tv Charlie Rose Bloomberg September 27, 2017 10:00pm-11:00pm EDT
. . ♪ >> from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. charley: we begin this evening with politics, and republican leaders have announced today they will not vote on the to repealaham bill and replace obamacare. the news comes at a troubled time in the trump administration. the president has come under criticism for attacking nfl players. the news came under that at least six of his president -- personal advisors used personal accounts to conduct personal
business. the president has long criticized hillary clinton use of a private enough server during her post as secretary of state. joining us, robert costa. he is a political analyst for nbc news and msnbc. also with us, the chief white house political correspondent for the new york times. i am pleased to have oath of them here. what are the implications? clearly, there will be no repeal of obamacare, but what does the future hold? >> the trump presidency has become an era of disappointment for republican base voters. they look at this agenda for health care, tax reform, which remains stalled, and they see all these promises that have been made for nearly a decade not going anywhere in washington. president trump so far has been able to avoid the blame and fallout of all these pieces of legislation sitting on the shelf , but it was an embarrassing, almost humiliated day for senate
majority leader just trying to get something to the floor that could pass. yet again, he proved he just does not have the ability to get the necessary votes. charlie cole in with a problem votes? ting the glenn: the problem is it is not even really a bill. it is sort of a notion. it was patched together by lindsey graham, who really wanted, i think on some level, to prove to a lot of folks in the trunk white house that he was somebody who could criticize the president but was also willing to work with him, so there's a lot of cross political currents to give the single life . the republican donor base and the republican voting base in general have said this notion over the past six years essentially, that repealing obamacare is the party costs -- party's central organizing tenant, so they feel like they have to push this to the deadline this week and p are the truth of the matter is
obamacare, in general, particularly the expansion of medicaid, is very popular in a lot of these otherwise read dates like alaska. you cannot pass a bill that repeals a benefit that people like. this is obama' revenge. this is what david axelrod and all the obama things were saying with us was so unpopular and half in the first place. that it may not be popular now, but how popular it will be when republicans try to repeal it, and that is exactly how it played out. charlie cole and republicans will go to voters in 2018 without the repeal and replacement of obamacare, correct? bob: we will have to see. it's only september of 2017. you see the majority leader on tuesday saying while tax reform is the next thing on the agenda, he thinks it is more doable than health care. health care has been emotionally charged for republicans and democrats. s onlook at the protest
capitol hill, and on tax reform, mcconnell and trump relieved that at least when it comes to cutting tax rates -- or get about deductions of the broader aspects of tax reform -- at least on rates, maybe the party can come together and have a majority of votes to get behind that. charlie where does it stand now? that thestands now leaders on capitol hill, speaker ryan and mitch mcconnell, have agreed to an outline working with the treasury secretary and others. corporate taxes would be lowered to about a 20% rate, and you see various cuts for middle class income and some for higher bracket, but not necessarily a cut at all for those with the highest rate, but there is real disagreement in the white house. the president continues to talk to people like larry kudlow, surprise or economist, and they keep telling the president in one ear go down even lower. go to 15%. do not listen to capitol hill. republicans i listen to on this.l hill cringe at
they just wish the president could unite behind the rates they have come up with, that they believe in. charlie: they have to work these things out before they have to go and perform tax. bob: this is a tumultuous time in congress. you talk to these lawmakers. they have an alabama senate primary runoff tuesday night that is looking very turbulent or the incumbent. you have health care going nowhere inside the senate. all this voter anger. the president weighing into all the culture wars. that looms over the prospect of tax reform. how do you get tax reform passed if you have all this drama consuming the republican party? that's the question. charlie: if the president's candidate loses an alabama and does not get the nomination, is the president really upset about , or has he deflected what he expects might be the result?
>> my reporting over the last couple of days show that when he went to support luther strange in alabama, he was complaining that luther strange was "low energy," which is exactly the diss he aims so effectively a jeb bush. he's trying to blame of the usual republican suspects for saddling him with the wrong candidate. steve bannon is out there re-energizing himself after being punted out of the white house. this is a delicious moment for steve shannon, who, i think, thes as if he has reclaimed mantle of this populist uprising and seems to be outside the capital reminding donald trump exactly who his voters are. charlie: what does it do to the relationship between steve bannon and donald trump? glenn: i still do not understand
the relationship between steve bannon and donald trump. it would be easier for me to understand relationship between my parents than it is to understand the relationship between these two guys. it was very much a marriage of convenience back when they got together. remember, these guys were the subject of books, this relationship, have known each other in a close way for no more than a year, and, really, with that and with being tossed out of the white house, steve was in deep freeze for several months. the president said he had not known him for that long, but ink -- the thing steve bannon has purchased on is this raw anger that first expressive of -- and bob knows this really well -- in the election of dave brat in virginia, upsetting the majority leader of the time, eric cantor, as a more centrist republican. what bannon is trying to do is refuel his movement, possibly at
the expense of trump. charlie: what you think? bob: glenn nailed it. the president and bannon had a strange relationship that is in part about convenience, but the president, as much as he wants to work with some of the insiders in washington, still likes to consider himself an outsider. he still talks to abandon occasionally on the phone, his confidants say. bannon has the ability to convince him that his instincts are right, that the outsider instincts are right, and trump appreciates that. as to this relationship not so much going along a traditional route moving forward. it may lead president trump to work even more closely with steve bannon because bannon in his mind will be seen as a winner, someone who is reliable
when it comes to political victory. for a president who is not driven by ideology but more favors the prospect of victory, that band and influence could continue to have sway from outside the white house. charlie: we are still trying to figure out the president and his remarks about charlottesville. at the same time, we had the president's remarks about the kneeeet down -- need -- down. combination of a visceral reaction from a president who believes players should listen to their owners and a political reaction. very useful for the president to fly to alabama and lost this attack, which fuses the haves from a culture were perspective of the movement we have discussed as being action. everybody in alabama can -- i started off my career at the birmingham post herald, and i alabamauniversity of
games in tuscaloosa. football unites that eight and binds together a lot of wounds, and i think trump has a visceral understanding of what his base is, and he understands a lot of his face -- white, working-class voters -- look at colin kaepernick and think of somebody who is violating with a view as a time-honored code, so he is definitely, definitely viewing that from a tactical perspective, and we are hearing from our reporting over the last 24 hours or so, he has flat out told people he thinks it has played really well with his base. something that he views as feels intuitively and something that he feels as changing the subject from health-care reform, from luther strange cost loss, from this tax reform stuff, and more importantly, from what is going rush investigation. charlie: where's the molar investigation yet is it getting closer and closer
to the white house? our molar investigators prepared to go into the white house and interview staffers? bob: it is. i'm sure glenn has thoughts, to on this, but every time i talk to people in the white house about this, they are on edge about bob mueller. the phrases they use, the way they talk about it, is very serious at this point. like almost everyone has a lawyer at the higher ranks of the white house. if you are a, even former official, to be subpoenaed. they see this investigation unfolding not only about russia collusion, but about obstruction of justice, and that obstruction of justice limit has many people because trump alarmed of how he has responded to different crises inside the white house, they may be vulnerable legally. that is what has people on edge.
she talks about her new book called what happened. we continue with her about the 2016 election. how do you think we stand in the world today? secretary clinton: it was very unfortunate turns away from what american presidents have historically said at the u.n. and i think it sends mixed messages to a lot of world leaders are personally, i think that vladimir putin and kim jong-un are delighted with donald trump. i think they have played him. i think putin has kept him out of syria, out of ukraine basically, kept him off balance. ,charlie: we should address this. north korea, would you be doing? sec. clinton: i would have a
full onslaught of diplomatic efforts -- isn't rex -- i'm sorry. go ahead. he doesn'tlinton: have anybody who knows the language of the culture. i don't think he is calling the shots. i think they are being called from the defense department. charlie: you must have respect for general mattis. sec. clinton: i have a great deal of respect or general mattis. general mattis keeps saying we need to have a diplomatic effort. i would like to see diplomatic oul,ing to beijing, to se say threejust let me things. first, we do want to defend our allies. we will place missile defense systems.
we will do everything necessary. to defend not only american territory -- charlie: we have missile-defense systems in south korea. sec. clinton: well, they are just being installed. we have to help japan, south other targets. secondly, we want to call on the north koreans to come to the table to have a diplomatic isort to determine if there for resolvingath what is now a very threatening situation. charlie: i would be surprised if this is not being expressed to him by either the secretary of state or secretary of defense. wouldn't you? secretary clinton: i would be surprised, but there's no reporting. charlie: you're asking china to do it. sec. clinton: china has the most leverage, though their leverage has diminished.
charlie: they have supported us in the united nations on the security council votes. that was a surprise. sec. clinton: they have, but they have to do more to communicate directly to kim jong-un and his ruling authority that they are serious. they have joined us on sanctions but these sanctions need to really bite. i want to say a word about japan. i think this may be one of the potential points of leverage. i started negotiations on iran, and one of our strongest arguments was to say two countries that were reluctant to have international sanctions because they got oil and gas from iran -- ok, fine. you want a nuclear arms race in the middle east? want israel to take this into their own hands? sanctions, forcing iran to the a farating table is better option. north korea has now sent two missiles over japan. japan is going to have to respond, and under its current
leadership, it's talking about rearming. south korea does not want that. china does not want that. some of the feelings going back are still pretty raw, but japan cannot sit there and be a sitting duck for these missiles coming over its territory. my argument would be -- and any kind of diplomatic process to china in particular, the status lot better than having a fully armed, maybe nuclear armed, japan, something that trump cavalierly talked about during the campaign. charlie: too much criticism? secretary clinton: yeah, too much criticism. if you have japan becoming a nuclear power, the proliferation sort of knows no boundaries. i think there is leverage we still have, and i would like to see the operating. charlie: north koreans have said
japan is not going to take this much longer. secretary kissinger said essentially, is it not? china, south korea, japan? secretary clinton: well, he knows a little bit about diplomacy. the key is china. i think that there all caps that need to be taken. i understand the ultimate course, ifat, of they go after our allies, u.s. territories, or, heaven for big, our own country, hawaii, the west coast, we would have to retaliate. we could not stand that. but that is not the first and you say, and you certainly do not make north korean policy in a tweet. and you do not -- it's one thing to insult people standing on a stage with you who are running against you for president. it is something else to insult somebody who thrives on those
insults and who now has nuclear weapons. charlie: and who may respond to them in ways that could surprise you. secretary clinton: exactly. and knowing the little bit that i know about how can jump and sees on this, -- how can jump in this, kim jong-un sees on he is playing trump, just like putin is playing trump. i think they have gotten some much more out of their exchanges with trump and the way trump has on the one hand with putin, given him is like check and on kim jong-un wrote these insults. charlie: he is flattered by attention. he's easily angered. his emotional response precludes a more intelligent than reasoned approach. sec. clinton: he is impulsive, he strikes back. he has to dominate at all costs. he has to be the person that is delivering the last worst insult because that is a form of
domination and manipulation and it has worked for him. you know him from this city. he has gotten away with so many things because he took a position that you do that to me, i will do even more to you. if i don't pay your full bill, you'll be lucky to get half the bill and if you sue me, i will never pay you again. charlie: he's president of the united states, as he constantly reminds us and you're the only , person who stood in the way of that. you will have to live with that. sec. clinton: i will. i know people around him have .ried he loves the adulation of his crowd, his base. he loves the rallies, going to keep doing the rallies. hisets loose and begins
return to attacking people who are not like him, who do not support him, but who are american. charlie: for someone who has been so close to the power of the executive branch, as first you, secretary of state -- saw it right there, 16 years of the presidency, up close -- i assume part of the guilt, regret you must feel is knowing what could be done with the presidency. sec. clinton: that is very true. charlie: what could be done in terms of making this country better. sec. clinton: i agree completely. charlie: the power of effecting the lives of the people -- of affecting the lives of the people for the better. accept a clinton: i lot of the criticism i got because i do think policy matters. i'm worried sick about the republicans to do this phony health care bill.
i'm worried because at the end of this week, the children's health care program may not get reauthorized. it matters, charlie. i see the lives of more affected by these policies so yes i care a lot about it. more than that, i think the job is supposed to really humble you. that is what i have seen. i remember sitting in the oval after 9/11 with george w. bush. the bravado, the funny -- charlie: he was humbled. secretary clinton he was : humbled. i looked into his eyes. i knew the shock and pain he must feel. he was there to ask for help for new york. i have been with barack obama in the situation room making really difficult decisions , including whether he would go after some of bin laden.
-- osama bin laden. we have to operate in an environment in which we know we will never know everything, and that humbles you. presidentm to have a who doesn't care and does not know what he doesn't know. who operates based on his -- his highs and most favored response ofthat you know -- that yell the crowd that consist of people who support him who buy into , him, who love him. who can see no wrong in anything that he does and i think it is a dangerous time. i've said that i think his presidency poses a clear and present danger. to our country. charlie: a clear and present danger -- meaning what? sec. clinton: to continue to divide this country and race, gender is, ethnicity, really doing damage. you can see it already in some
of the blowback and backlash we are seeing whether it is silicon , valley fighting over women in tech or seeing the kind of bullying going on in school yards, and what parents have to tell their kids after they hear something the president has said. .e are e pluribus unum i cherish that. charlie: from many, one. secretary clinton: exactly. all of a sudden, it is divided and conquered on every front. go after those black athletes who are exercising their constitutional rights because he thinks your base will like it. charley: if you couch it as insulting the flag. sec. clinton: yes, i find that troubling. there's a danger to our social fabric. going into the campaign, i do knew i would have to do a lot of work with people who did not support me, who believed a lot
of lies about me, who were all on the other side of the partisan divide, but i thought that was something you should expect a president to do. charlie: in all of this, thinking about all these things, what is the most important thing you learned about yourself? sec. clinton: i think the leadership i was offering was not necessarily in line with making thehave been acceptable to and the candidate a lot of people could support. yes, i carried baggage. it had been baggage that had worked to my advantage in prior campaigns and other positions, but the kind of leadership i was offering was just out of step with what was going on in sort of the world that people now and have it i did not do a good in showing to figure
out how to communicate effectively to people who were very moved by, affected by a lot of the insults and the attacks. i did not do a good enough job. i am struck by, as you talked about that night, as you thought about a victory speech, one of the things you wanted to do was to reach out to those people. you wanted to tell them that you wanted them to know that they now have a president who will listen to you. secretary clinton: and will work for you. sec. clinton: i had planned to travel the country and meet with people who had legitimate grievances. there is a certain group of just haters and negative folks who will believe anything about d next to their
to go afterwanted money in politics. i wanted to go after the inequality. ofad a really good set ideas. i had worked hard so that i would not just be mouthing slogans. charlie: you also knew you had to convince people that was truly you were. sec. clinton: absolutely. because it was, and there was no evidence to the contrary. the optics, as i say in the book, were sometimes not what i would have preferred, but the reality never changed. charlie: what you do now? sec. clinton: i'm going to continue my book tour. i think the message, particularly about voter suppression and the russians and on,sm are ones that live even though i'm done running for office, but i'm going to stay active in politics because i care too much about this country and am committed to doing everything i can to help elect democrats because that the only language trump and his allies
will understand, if they lose elections. new book called on were together. i end on a positive note because i think there are things we can do to change the political i will stay active in the. -- in that. charlie: the book is called, "what happened." a book that is praised for a number of things. rawness,y for its going right to the bone. an experienced she lived through running for president in 2016. thank you very much. clinton: thank you charlie. ♪
charlie: paul janeway is here known for the broken bones. onstage, he has earned comparisons to james brown, the godfather of folk, keith richards of the rolling stones compared him to otis redding. saying, he is a very interesting cat to watch. st. paul's album infuses phone rock with a whole lot of soul. it is called sea of noise. here performing out "i'll be your woman" right here in our studio. ♪
st. paul at this table for the first time. st. paul: thanks for having me. charlie: elton john loves the loves the song and said let us do something together. elton has, for a while, he had an aids benefit. we have been emailing back-and-forth. he said can you come play this benefit. i went out to l.a.. mind if iould you sang with you. you always go, of course i'm fine with that. we came out there and he did the second verse. it was amazing having him sing that song. sittingest part was with him before he went to the
dressing room. it was me, him and the guitar player. you're in that kind of presence, you go, wow. this is something no one can take away from me. you were there because he admired your song. st. paul: i guess so. charlie: keith richards of the rolling stones said it reminded him of otis redding. someone else said james brown because of the energy you bring on stage. i appreciate those. i think that is sacred ground. i'm a lot more clumsy than some like james brown. i can't do the splits. that would be bad news for mike pence. mythat would be bad news for
pants. i'm flattered by that. there's no real good response to it. i would never say that about me. that anyone would even suggest that. i don't think you can get better than that. first it is a journey. you don't want to be, he was pretty good for 2017. you want to be, it was pretty good. charlie: how long have you been performing? st. paul: i've been singing since i was four years old. since i was in church. my first solo was when i was four. i grew up singing. charlie: do people praise your voice? st. paul: yes. i had a pastor who kind of held me down. he was trying to teach me about humility. and he did.
i never thought i am a good singer. i wanted to be a preacher. i wanted to preach the gospel. when i was 18, i fell out of love with that. charlie: you fell in love with music? i grew up in a small town of alabama. when you think about the church's view on homosexuality, . disagreed with those views i thought if somebody loves somebody, it did not matter what the sexual preference was. so you fall out of love with it. i was about 18 and i started going into bars. charlie: you don't drink. st. paul: i don't drink. that is the bizarre thing. i don't drink and don't smoke.
for me, that is a residual thing. i don't feel like it is a moral thing. it is expensive. and it can screw up your voice. just kind of falling out of love with that stuff, going into a bar, and doing open mic night. i wasn't much of a guitar player. i remember getting a reaction. they had that face, their eyes are wide open, and they are listening. you kind of heard a gasp. my guitaris not playing. i'm not a good guitar player. as it gradually went on, i felt like that is what i wanted to do. worked at eight tanning bed.
so i worked at a mechanic shop as a gopher. i would go get their lunch. i was about 19, 20. as time progressed, when the economy -- when the economy went bad, i lost my job. i was unemployed for two years, and in that time, my dad had a apartment. he had three people living there. i said, i have to get my life together. the power was getting shut off. i was kind of depressed. were you writing anything? st. paul: i was writing all the time. i met a girl who is my wife now, and i said i have to get my life together. i started going to community college.
i got into accounting school. then this showed up and ruined it all. you are about to commit to a life as an accountant? st. paul: 100%. it was getting together, me and jesse. we got together. we were best friends, and had been best friends for a while. we recorded the first record. i was paying for recordings with
i was standing on top of the table, kicking pieces out. screaming in people's faces. i remember, you give it all you got. much merchandise. shirts for the waitresses. and the people in there. that's what happened. that was at the essence of what we are. charlie: did you do it instinctively? st. paul: i don't mildly do something. on, or it is100% zero. when we play a show, you give it everything you possibly got. that is my approach. some people like it, some people don't. charlie: growing up, you could listen to gospel music with one
exception. st. paul: sam cooke. that is it. that was all i could listen to. there was one other group my mom would let me listen to. an old 1970's group called the stylistics. i think that is where i learned my falsetto. , at the time it was normal. then you realize, when you get out that is not normal at all. do people say, i thought most of soul bands are black? charlie: st. paul: yes. get people who are awfully pale, as they say. that surprises people a little bit. , music is music.
as long as you pay tribute to those things, you show your respect. i have told people what would you have me sing? bluegrass? it is a lot of fun. ♪ charlie: tell me about these songs. for me, you go to the first record and all this stuff happens. what you do with the second record? the second record, i was genuinely contemplating stopping
doing this. life. such a change in my on the road, it was such a change. i started making money. had not been making anything. i thought, there is more to this. what do i need to do? i got this book that was inspirational and amazing. i remember i was crying. i read a lot of nonfiction, and i read inspirational books, but it hit me. i'm from alabama. it hit me in such a way that i said, i'll make another record. it has to be figuring out
southern identity in these modern times. , i'm considered very liberal. for --alabama football and there are certain things i don't love. this record was the navigation for that. and not answering a lot of questions. charlie: st. paul comes from the idea of non-drinking. where does the "broken bones" come from? st. paul: it comes from the bones of pocket change. the line goes all she left me with were broken bones in pocket change. st. paul: that comes from winston churchill. he talked about england being a crumbling lighthouse in darkness.
you feel like you are trying to be a light, and do the right thing. charlie: "midnight on the earth?" st. paul: that is a better relationship with aliens. [laughter] this weird dream where an alien grabbed me. goingcould see the world on from a global sense. charlie: you can see the bigger picture. st. paul: i guess so. "i'll betell me about your woman." st. paul: the idea was to turn it on its head.
the paper. it was red everywhere. i will show her the lyrics if i'm close to a final stage. she will give some advice. that is a kind of standard thing to say. she is not sitting there writing it. charlie: she has a sense of language. the way she performs with language is so much better than me. she knows how to construct those things better than i do. charlie: characterize the band. tell me what st. paul and the broken bones are. is it soul? st. paul: genres are for record labels and pr. it goes froms, and so i think-
for us, i have the voice i have. everyone is going to say, it is so full. muchally, we listen to so and are influenced by so much that the characterize us as a to prand, i leave that people and record labels. charlie: sanctify? nod --l: sanctify is the hattaway savings? it is like, let me sanctify you in a more intimate setting. that is the best way i can say it. "it isn't me." charlie: st. paul: that is a special song. it plays off of the old hymn
structure. about where we are being from and seeing what is going on. there's even a reference to a sci-fi book that the aliens come down and they make it a utopia. then they find out the aliens look like devils. the whole idea of that. is one of those songs, i know where it takes me. it takes me back to chelsea, alabama. my hometown. it is one of those songs to me, it is the overarching song of the record. charlie: thank you. st. paul: thank you. it was an honor. ♪
you are watching bloomberg technology. what's get a check of your forced that first word news. speaking indianapolis the president insisted the wealthy would not be the only beneficiary. the tax code would be similar -- simpler and more fair for everyday americans. this all comes as the tax rate goes from 35%. for individuals the tax bracket would be 12%. the individual that u.s. has offered a first look at the prototype for the proposed order -- border wall. crews working on two of the prototypes were filmed installing reinforced ours