tv Bloomberg Technology Bloomberg March 14, 2019 11:00pm-12:00am EDT
emily: i'm emily chang in san francisco and this is "bloomberg technology." big exit at facebook. chris cox is leaving along with chris daniels, the head of whatsapp. what does it mean for the beleaguered social media giant? spotify's ceo says the company has suffered a big business impact from restrictions imposed by apple and it got more hostile after apple launched its own music service. now it is weighing in. elon musk is in the spotlight
once again. this time to unveil the model y crossover. we will discuss what you can expect. first to our top story. sudden departures of top facebook executives. ceo mark zuckerberg announced chris cox is leaving the company. zuckerberg made this statement which he shared with employees before it made it to the public. "for a few years, chris has been discussing with me his desire to do something else. he is one of the most talented people i no one has the potential to do anything he wants but after 2016, we both realized we had too much important work to do to improve our product for society, and he stayed to help us work through the issues. at this point, we have made real progress." zuckerberg also announced the head of whatsapp chris daniels is leaving as well. from about noon wednesday into thursday, users were unable to access the social network and its related services globally including instagram, facebook messenger, and whatsapp in what turned out to be a massive
outage. federal investigators launched a probe into the social network's data sharing practices. joining us are deborah and sarah. chris cox leaving is a big deal. >> it is a big deal. you may not have heard his name as much as you have heard of mark zuckerberg or sheryl sandberg but he is the soul of facebook. he does the orientation for new employees every monday. he is in charge of all of the products, facebook, instagram. emily: inner circle. sarah: absolutely, but more than that. he created the newsfeed and is the face of this product internally. it is a big jarring change for facebook employees. emily: in his own statement, chris cox said i, have been sharing the same message that we have believed. tied up in the richness and complexity of social life. we must endeavor to understand its impact and take up the daily
work. he is clearly alluding to the big existential issues facebook is facing right now but why do you think he is really living? is he leaving because he fixed a lot of things or because he could not fix a lot of things? >> also in that post, there is a line that says they are entering this new era of product development that will be focused more on encryption and apps that are connected and messaging. so private that facebook cannot even see it. he said facebook deserves executives to take facebook into the ever who are excited about that change. hinting he is not excited about that change. emily: which is interesting that he and zuckerberg have been fairly well aligned over these years. sarah: facebook's history, chris cox's history at facebook in particular, has been about giving you what you want at social networks, develop new algorithms to give content that
will make you like the product. this whole encrypted app messaging is not that world. it is a completely different challenge. it will be completely different problems associated with it. emily: so it is not necessarily clear if he is not aligned with this new mission or if he does not think he is the best person to do it. sarah: right. that many years that facebook is like 300 years. emily: let's talk about chris daniels, the head of whatsapp, leaving. he is not feeling chris cox's position but elevating the heads of each of these products, whatsapp, facebook, messenger, and instagram. tell us about chris daniels. he is leaving, too. sarah: chris daniels was formerly the head of internet.org, which was zuckerberg's personal project to try to get more people on the internet. sort of connected to whatsapp in that it is very international but running a messaging project
is a very different ordeal. we don't know exactly why he left, but it is a very difficult time for whatsapp right now because they are facing all the scrutiny from governments around the world. there have been whatsapp lynchings in india and all this misinformation that have spread on whatsapp that is encrypted. so facebook cannot do much about it except for change its rules. that will be a very difficult job to do. emily: meantime, the cofounder of whatsapp who left a while ago who once kicked off the #deletefacebook movement. he felt like he was going to be giving a privacy but still sold. he said it would change their lives so him is not all about me. sarah: it is true but you also have to consider that if it is
that morally important to you, it should not be integrated with other products. once you sell the company, you sell the company. emily: david kirkpatrick now is joining us from new york. you wrote the book on facebook. i'm sure you interviewed chris cox several times in that process. what do you make that he is now leaving? david: i agree with everything sarah said about his centrality at the company. he has in my mind been the person closest to zuckerberg from a product standpoint, which is why zuckerberg gave him oversight over facebook, instagram, and whatsapp. basically, he has been running all the products. i also think it is interesting that he should be leaving and daniels, who runs whatsapp, leaving just a few days after zuckerberg declared essentially that whatsapp is the center of the new facebook. to me, it bespeaks some degree
of conflict and disagreement. how much is hard to say, but clearly someone like chris cox would not be leaving now with facebook so under fire just because he is tired after 13 years. that is not what would happen. emily: which reminds me that when mark zuckerberg released that memo about privacy last week, he actually talked about getting new leaders on board and the challenges of getting new leaders on board who would be aligned with this new mission. perhaps this was an illusion to him knowing that cox and perhaps daniels as well would be leaving. david: one way to interpret this, when so many people have questioned the sincerity of that memo from last week or the week before last, whatever it was, my time is missing, but this actually suggests that really zuckerberg is making a dramatic change and making it fairly fast.
that is another possibility. as sarah was saying, maybe it really could be that it is not in chris cox's wheelhouse and he wants to leave because of that. it is very shocking to me to see those two guys leaving at the same time. daniels is on the inner circle. emily: agreed. sarah, you could argue we talked about the fact that not a lot of high-profile executives have left facebook despite the scandals and controversies. yes, some departures here and there, the legal department, but nobody from product. sarah: no. this is a very rare situation. in my mind, it is somewhat analogous to the instagram founders leaving last year or the whatsapp founders leaving. this is somebody that had a very strong voice at facebook overshadowed in some ways by
zuckerberg's voice. he is the ceo, but when you look at what is happening next, he is not going to figure into the cost level role. he is instead going to have all the leaders of the different products report to him and have somebody manage the integration of them. emily: this is on the same day of this massive facebook global outage, which is believed to be the biggest outage that facebook has ever had, which knocked out all of its services. and perhaps it is evidence of the power of facebook being concentrated in one place and the difficulties of managing that. sarah: especially when you have these different services get more and more integrated, right? you have whatsapp, oculus, messenger, instagram, and that facebook itself. yesterday, they were all down. the service for serving ads on facebook, advertisers were telling me they could not see their things and how they were running.
it give them a sense of, is there really an alternative? emily: we were just showing a map of the outage as of noon today. facebook has said it has resolved the issues. there are a few hundred reports still of people without service but if you look at that map yesterday, it was red all over. this is a heat map. do you think mark zuckerberg is planning to merge the interest after behind whatsapp and instagram and facebook messenger? do you think this is an isolated incident or a symptom of a larger issue at play? david: i think facebook has said so little about what actually happened that we are left guessing. one of the strangest things about it was it was not just the blue facebook. it was also instagram, parts of whatsapp, even oculus. that is extremely surprising to me that they should have an architecture that at the moment would allow them to all be
connected enough that they could be simultaneously impaired. it does underscore the risks of making it all one big integrated system, which clearly is happening. this is not going to stop that train from leaving the station. emily: facebook calls it a "server configuration change," which triggered a series of cascading issues. what does that mean? sarah: it is so vague. i asked for clarification. i did not get it. they said yesterday they might be refunding some advertisers. they are considering that but have not told me if they will do that either. emily: they lost sales. sarah: lost sales. not just advertisers and immediate companies, but small businesses, people trying to organize events. you don't realize how intubated facebook is with ever everyday lives. emily: bigger picture, we will talk about the federal probe into the facebook data showing practices but the punches for facebook keep coming.
david: that is right. it is not a time when -- seldom could use think of another company that has been more under the gun and they are right now. especially -- than they are right now. especially senators calling for their breakup. you have huge questions about speech issues and hate speech, political manipulation, privacy, a separate issue. now you have the breakdown of the service itself in the last 24 hours to 36 hours. and then one of the most senior people leaving at the same time as that. it is a strange, strange convergence of problems that does not bespeak good things about this company. emily: all right. author of "the facebook effect." sarah covers facebook for us. i want you to stick around. we will come back to these issues later this hour. coming up, spotify says apple is
emily: audio streaming platform spotify has asked the eu to investigate apple for taking a 30% cut in the app store. e.u. competition commissioner told bloomberg's matt miller that they are going to do just that. >> you have a specific apple product, apple music, who is a direct competitor to spotify in
their services. this is of course such a dual market situation that we take very seriously. if you are but the host and competitor, well then how do you behave when you yourself have gained some status in the market? >> as a gearhead, i think of things in carmaker terms or motorcycle terms. for me, i'm thinking, is this like if bmw were to offer motorcycle without shocks or brakes or if it had forced some difficulty in adding third-party parts to its bike? would that be a problem, too, or is it not the same, is it apples and oranges here? >> you can never sort of directly compare but a big car seller takes in smaller products but do not sell them on the same terms. they say you can buy our car or the competitor's car. if you buy the competitor's car, you have to pay more. >> good morning to you.
sounds as if you think the claim against apple is worth investigating. what kind of timescale can you put on that and have you had complaints from others? >> of course, first and foremost, we take any complaint we get very seriously. because it takes quite an effort for people to post a complaint. it is not something you write on the back of an envelope. it takes much more time and investment to do that. we will take it seriously and will start working. what we make of it remains to be seen. emily: that was the eu competition commissioner in berlin with matt miller and anna edwards. spotify's ceo meantime laid out his argument in his speech in berlin and spoke to bloomberg news to talk about this brewing spotify-apple showdown. mark joins us from los angeles.
weigh out the argument here. he says whatever apple is doing has had a big impact on spotify's business. how so? mark: he is referring to a few very specific things. today's interview, the 30% cut, which apple has been doing across all applications with subscriptions built through the itunes and app store, he referred to apple not making it easy for spotify to be a true competitor on products. the spotify application is fully functional. it can take all the apis. it is very similar. on the apple watch, it is not an equal streaming equivalent. you cannot stream spotify over the cellular networks if you have a cellular apple watch. it does not run as effectively in the background. the homepod is exclusive to apple music unless you will airplane music streaming it from the iphone to the homepod.
it works with air play but does not work through siri so you cannot use the homepod as a standalone spotify device. so what the spotify ceo is saying is apple music and its competitors cannot have parity on apple's hardware devices other than the iphone. emily: i want to take a listen to a bit of daniel's speech from earlier. here is a portion of what he had to say. >> let's call this 30% revenue share actually what it is. it is a competitor tax. given the recent expansion into applying this tax to other businesses, it is really becoming a tax for the internet. and importantly, apple's posture to spotify became increasingly hostile after apple acquired a rival music streaming service and launched apple music. emily: now, mark, he makes an important point that this applies to anyone in the app store. but then does that also contradict the point that this is related specifically to the
fact that apple has a competing music service? mark: yes. let's say apple music never existed and they did not bring beats, you would be sure that they would be charging spotify the 30%, what because call a tax, the revenue share agreement. when the app store was announced in 2008, the 30% tax was introduced. this is something apple has had for almost 12 years. they continued that with their in app purchase splits so this is something ongoing forever. i don't think this is there is a competitor tax. i agree with the core points. one can make a very sound and logical and fair argument that perhaps apple should not be charging 30%. people can make an argument it is unfair that apple does not offer parity to spotify. i think that is all true and very fair, but they are calling this a tax on the competition and i don't think that is actually the case. emily: spotify says apple became more hostile after apple
launched its own music service, price apple music lower than spotify. of course, we will keep watching how this eu taking a look at this, how that plays out. margrethe has certainly taken on apple before. we reached out to apple multiple times for comment and have not heard back. mark, as always, thank you for weighing in. coming up, could a new camera feature be a key to twitter getting more users? more details on the social site's latest experiment, next. this is bloomberg. ♪
substantially. twitter says it still has a lot of work to do in hiring latino employees. speaking with twitter, the social site rolling out a snapchat like camera that lets users post videos or photos in a swipe. twitter is experimenting with changing the new product to persuade more people to join the service. the update will allow users to more easily access the service's existing camera and encourage them to show nearby events in real-time, whether it is breaking news, sporting events, or a festival. joining us now is selina wang. what do these changes mean? selina: this has been a long-awaited product change. they had a demo version a year ago and were considering rolling this out so a lot up in a ration. -- a lot of iteration. they are starting to roll it out to users. it makes the camera more central to the twitter product. the twitter service has been historically focused on
textbased messaging and has an eight to cumbersome process to take a video. so now with just a swipe, you can access the video camera part, which is very similar to what instagram has done, to what snapchat has done, but a natural extension of the product. twitter wants to position itself as a product to capture what is happening around you. visual is a very important aspect of that, taking photos and videos. it is also good for advertisers because eventually as they can iterate on this, they can sneakily add some advertising spots. emily: meanwhile, a new call on snap. tell me about that. selina: this is a big reversal. he's now putting a buy rating on snapchat. he said everything that could have gone wrong for snapchat went wrong last year but they made a number of improvements. his main bullish comments are that, number one, the advertising has really looked up. in north america, advertising surged as in other parts of the world. primarily he is back living in asia. in the last earnings report, not as bad as expected.
they were able to extract more revenue out of the same group of users. he also talked about the discover section of the platform getting more higher-quality content. he sees that as a big improvement as well as the fact that even though they are not able to get this older demographic of people 30 years and older, the younger demographic has remained surprisingly sticky. emily: shares at sign major jump today. because of that? selina: presumably because of what rich greenfield said. emily: all right. thank you so much for those updates. appreciate it. coming up, facebook probe. the social media giant under multiple investigations. now a grand jury is even involved. we will discuss, next. this is bloomberg. ♪
emily: this is "bloomberg technology." back to our top story -- facebook. we told you about the company losing its chief product officer and the head of whatsapp, but those are not the company's only concerns today. the probe of the company's data practices is expanding. the justice department is subpoenaing companies facebook had partnerships with. joining us to discuss, david kirkpatrick back with us. we also have deborah also
williamson and with me in the studio, sarah frier, who covers facebook. let's start with this federal investigation into facebook. a reminder that facebook allowed companies to see data about me and my friends that i did not give those companies permission to access, correct? >> yes. this is part of the broader probe into facebook practices, and they are joining this large set of government municipalities, entities like the european data protection commissioner probing into facebook's practices right now trying to figure out what is going on. this grand jury is an escalation of a doj/fbi probe we have known about for a few months, but it seems like this is getting serious. emily: it seems like we are a year on from the cambridge analytica situation.
facebook in a statement about the investigation said they are cooperating and will continue to do so. do you think this government scrutiny will impact the business? >> so far, we have not seen that happen. it has been incredible. like you mentioned, it has been almost a year since the revelations of cambridge analytica and all the other things that happened in the past year and the question keeps coming up -- will they spoke start losing the confidence of advertisers? the answer so far has been no. we forecast so far that facebook will have $67 billion in worldwide ad revenue this year, an increase of 22%. advertisers still love facebook,
even though we keep hearing issue after issue after issue. emily: what about this outage? some advertisers say they lost sales as a result of the outage which lasted more than 24 hours. >> i know, and it's amazing. the hits keep on coming. this is definitely another issue. it is not as impactful, honestly, with larger advertisers. those kinds of companies probably have the ability to make shifts and pulls in their spending quickly, maybe find another place to put their ad dollars or reallocate them. the outage had a bigger impact on small businesses, the kinds of companies that maybe only have one person in charge of running their ad business. those are the kinds of companies that might have lost money or sales or might have paid a spoke and are hoping for a refund. emily: facebook continues to
strike out, but if it has hit any home run in the last few months, it is earnings. they actually showed an increase in engagement in the united states, so you wonder if there is some sort of massive disconnect between media perception of facebook and what users actually care about. >> well, i mean, there is a trend in developing countries of declining usage that is pretty significant, and i think while advertisers are still there because effectively they do not have an alternative laced to go with anywhere near comparable effectiveness -- they do not have an alternative place to go with anywhere near comparable effectiveness, they tell me they are no longer using facebook. i can see in my news feed how many people used to be active that are not any longer. i am not a statistic, or an example, but a lot of people are
shying away from the kind of usage they did have and if users go away, advertisers will have to find other alternatives. emily: i want you to walk through for us the new leaders of facebook now that chris cox is leaving, chris daniels is leaving. the head of facebook, he has been the head of instagram, the head of messenger, the head of whatsapp who was promoted today given daniels' departure. >> simo is one of the fastest rising people at facebook. she was in charge of the facebook app before fidji and moving to whatsapp is something that will give him maybe a
little more direct control over a product that still has so much building to do. maybe facebook, the main app, is more of a legacy product and facebook is moving toward this encrypted legacy future. adam has been in his role for a few months and has really tried to make a similar path to what the founders wanted, but he will have to deal with this integration over the next few years and that will be a very difficult debate. how much does he want to represent himself as a facebook, inc. person? it will be an interesting future for these people. emily: how concerned are you about the departures as mark zuckerberg is making a very
pointed turn in the direction toward privacy after emphasizing openness and sharing for 15 years? >> it is a big change, and any time you see a major executive departure on the level of a chris cox, you do have to wonder. at the same time, people spend a lot of time at certain companies. they do it eventually find the time to leave. maybe the shift in strategy facebook has had that mark zuckerberg is proposing is something that chris cox either did not want to participate in or did not agree with -- we do not know -- but this is ultimately something to pay attention to. i'm sure we're not done seeing changes that are ahead for facebook. emily: what other big tests do you think facebook will be facing this year? what will you be watching for this year?
>> i think usage in the developed countries, as i was discussing before. to the degree they can keep that from eroding further, that is key. my own opinion, though, the thing that so many of us are waiting or is what feels like a genuine acknowledgment of the places they have erred. i think that is not a business development, but it's amazing to me how this company continues to act like "we just made a little bit of a mistake." even the statement you made before about the grand jury probe, well, of course they are taking it seriously. it's the law. they don't have a choice. so many people would love to see them show a little humility beyond what they have shown. i will add to that that chris cox, who i do know somewhat
well, is somebody who actually has quite a bit of humility and it would not surprise me if one of the things he really found grading --grating was that his sense that the company ought to own its errors was not shared by mark zuckerberg. emily: interesting. as we look to results later this year, is there anything in your model showing that engagement or revenue could run into a wall? are you seeing any evidence that the problems are hurting the company? >> you know what? we just put out our new forecast last month, so we will be updating numbers again later in the year as we watch what happens. we cannot see anything at this point, but of course, we are watching very closely the things david talked about -- user engagement, usage in developed companies, how facebook is monetizing its growth in
developing companies because that is where it is growing the fastest, but ad revenue is not growing as much in those markets. the question is as facebook starts moving toward messaging unification or the focus on messaging, where will revenue come from on that? from advertising, commerce, payments? is there something else mark zuckerberg has of his sleeve? those are things i will be paying attention to. it will just be a wait and see. emily: i know you will continue to report this story and bring us development as you have them. huawei pleaded not guilty in new york to federal allegations it had defrauded for banks by concealing business dealings with iran in violation of u.s. sanctions.
the cfo to attend in vancouver is also charged in the case. in a new television interview, the founder of the company says he also sees canada as a victim as the u.s. seeks extradition of the cfo, who is also his daughter. >> i think both canada and huawei are victims. we do not want this to have a negative impact on the relationship with canada or huawei confidence in canada. if the united states is closing its door, the case is an individual case, and i do not think it should affect in any way the relationship canada has with huawei. >> you did not see this as a personal attack when your own daughter was arrested?
elon musk needs a win. how will he secure it? throw a party for a product that will not be available for months in front of it crowd of fans. joining us now, an analyst from wedbush and our reporter who covers tesla for us. even so, there are a lot of fans and consumers out there who are excited about the model y. >> people are going to l.a. in droves. everyone is super excited. people are like, "elon, let me give you my money!" emily: do you have any answers to those questions you can
>> in terms of what we will see today, i think they will definitely take the hand. our initial stab is about 10,000 units would be the reservation you could see for model y, which will not get produced until q2 2020. we see this as a potential game changer. you talked about musk needing a win. we think this has the product, pricing, and some of the specs. can this be the silver bullet of growth that is definitely needed in terms of the tax credit coming off in the u.s. emily: jen munster predicted the price would be around 39 thousand dollars, which is far less than the jaguar, suv, the -- the jaguar suv, the audi suv. it sounds like a great price.
does that sound realistic to you? >> we set on the low end, $36,000, $37,000, with features, up to $49,000. it is the sweet spot what they're going after with a pricing perspective. we believe it could be 15% to 20% of all units that tesla sells. this is a fork in the road situation for musk and tesla and they really need to deliver. emily: i did not realize suv's are 45% of the u.s. market. that's huge. >> americans are basically ditching sedans. female drivers like the higher ride seats. people want to drive around their kids, the stuff. emily: what are you most looking forward to about this event? dan is going to talk about how difficult it is to cover events
like this, but it's basically one big party. >> it's the first good news we have had in three or four months. what we are looking for, what many are looking for is the timeline here, when do we see reservations, what is production? what are the specs? right now, it is trying to get under the hood, can this be the product that helps further define tesla in terms of where they are in the market? they have definitely gone through a situation where they got punched in the stomach and investors have also seen that, but right now, 2019 is this defining year for musk, and tonight it starts. that is why we are starting to kick the tires and essentially testdrive it. emily: bloomberg has a team covering this event.
talk about your history covering these events and what it's like. >> the events are big parties and you do not typically get a lot of information ahead of time about what will be revealed, so you are learning in real time and then you have to file a story, even though you would much rather get a cocktail and talk to people, so i will be watching the livestream tonight. people tune in from around the world. it's exciting to be there. tesla puts on great offense. -- puts on great events. people love to go to them and they often go into the very wee hours of the morning. emily: i did go to the model three unveil, so i do have a sense of what you're talking about. dana will be covering tesla for us throughout the evening. have fun tonight. still ahead, electronic signature company docusign reporting. how the company is faring with adobe next. ♪
emily: ppg's bill mcglashan has resigned after he was charged in a wide-ranging college criminal scandal. he recruited high profile investors to be part of his efforts including u2's bono and former secretary of state john kerry. he announced his resignation and a letter saying he's deeply sorry this very difficult situation may interfere with the work to which he has devoted his life and tpg says it will give investors the opportunity to back out of the fund if they would like. shares of e-signature company docusign falling by as much as 9% at one point as a company reported its first full-year numbers since going public in april 2018.
total revenue was just under $200 million, an increase of 34% from the same time last year. the company also forecast revenue for the first quarter ahead of analyst estimates, so why the after market sentiment? to answer that, i have the ceo, dan stringer, here with me in studio. why do you think the stock dropped? >> i think after hours is not a very good indicator of what happened. our stock has traded up in the last month or so, so i think there may be expectations even higher than the strong numbers you referred to already. emily: talk to me about the market. it is a changing market. dropbox, for example, but one of -- bought helolo sign. you compete with adobe. >> we are six or seven times the next player in the market, so we have a very strong leadership position. i think he goes to a couple of things -- we made a huge investment in the product. we have more functionality than
anyone else in the market space. we also have the fantastic brand. when people talk about e-signature, which is our core business, people pretty much equate that with docusign, and finally, we made a huge investment in infrastructure, so the large enterprises that need to have the system up all the time and secure, docusign is the choice. emily: docusign is now a verb. >> i thank you for sharing that. emily: the enterprise market is constantly changing. there is a lot of m&a. what is your strategy for the year to keep some of these bigger players at bay you can >> we feel we have a pretty strong leadership position. we think that if we keep executing the way we are and the core focus areas we have talked a lot about around driving great customer success through adoption of our platform that we will be really serving our shareholders well. emily: what are the trends we should be watching for? e-signature is a fantastic enabler, but it's not
everything. the system of agreement, which is the model we have described, is sort of expanding on e-signature to the areas repairing agreements before and managing after. emily: what do you mean by the managing part? >> after you sign an agreement, what do you do with it? if it's paper-based, and a lot of times, you fax it to someone or stored. with docusign, you have the ability to manage that agreement, no where it is, but also use artificial intelligence to get information about those agreements to help you run your business better. emily: what sort of security do you have in this area where we are seeing massive hack attacks, marriott, equifax, huge amounts of data getting stolen seemingly easily? >> security is a huge issue. we are fundamentally a trusted brand. if we don't get that right, we will has a huge issue with customers, so we made a massive investment. we talk about that bank grade security. it's why all the largest banks
and insurance companies use docusign -- because they note -- they know the information is safe with us. emily: there is something a little bit nerve-racking about all that being stored online and going over sometimes insecure female platforms. platforms. email you never know, if it's gmail or other services that could be vulnerable and not docusign itself. >> that's one of the reasons we encrypt any agreement and make sure they always know the only people who can access that information are the sender and the signer. emily: dan springer, ceo of docusign. "bloomberg tech" is livestreaming on twitter. be sure to follow our global news network tictoc on twitter. this is bloomberg. ♪
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