tv Bloomberg Technology Bloomberg May 28, 2019 5:00pm-6:00pm EDT
♪ emily: i am emily chang. this is bloomberg technology. facebook leadership under fire. the ceo mark zuckerberg has too much control? one person trying to change the power dynamic. nellie bob is considering a mega deal that will bring china's largest constant -- open a closer to investors. a second public listing. saysi founder and ceo
there is no need for negotiation in the face of u.s. trade sanctions. more from our interview with huawei headquarters in shenzhen. facebook investors are looking to shake up the social media giant and with it, mark zuckerberg's voting power. but the proposal can't face without the support of the founder and ceo. one investor who has been tirelessly trying to push for changes, the ceo of northstar asset management which owns 12,000 shares. goodrich submitted a proposal for the fifth straight year suggesting they change their voting structure which gives zuckerberg absolute control despite owning a minority of shares. facebook has gotten itself into a lot of control over the past couple of years. we own as much as 50,000 shares over the time since the company went public. i think this is an opportunity
for shareholders to weigh in and really for citizens to think about what privacy means, what kinds of good -- internet access we want, what information we think we are sharing. this is an opportunity to weigh in on the ethics around data gathering and dissemination. severalor the last years when we look at companies like facebook, google, where you founders of the company having these gigantic super voting majority shares, and we start seeing them having all kinds of problems in the realms of their business they never even imagined they would have problems in, we have to look at corporate governance, oversight and think about, is he equipped to have all of the control at this point? romaine: some would look at
facebook's earnings statements and would make arguments the company is doing growth, topline growth is still growing, still adding users. thatte the ethical issues are legitimate and could be raised, they are making money for investors, stock prices still up. why should they change? some of their policies are getting them into hot water and they should have a perspective on what they are doing. i was thinking of the trouble they got in with the cambridge analytic a scandal. we got another major election coming up in 2020. these guys have got to have a perspective on what their responsibility is in terms of creating. if they will be a news station which they they are, they should be held up to the same standards the rest of the media is. emily: i wonder if you have gotten responses from the other
shareholders. mark zuckerberg ultimately would be votedf this will on, but have you talked to anyone from capital group or tivo price or the more passive investors like blackrock? what is their response? we don't spend a lot of time talking to other shareholders. we make our case with facebook and the other companies with challenges, we try to make our case again with the securities and exchange commission. what is interesting about our resolution is last year the class a shares where it is one 83% per share, we received of the vote. those represent the people you are talking about. they represent the blackrocks and all of the other major mutual fund companies. romaine: we have a recent statement from facebook regarding their safety issues. they say our recent efforts to
improve safety and security of our community have required significant investment which has impacted profitability. this level of investment may not have been possible if our board of directors and ceo were focused on short-term successes over long-term interests of our community and companies. there is a bigger issue about the dual costs shares structure and these are put in place because of the long-term vision of the founders, these people that have these long-term stakes and there is a buffer against ofrt-term interest investors. how do you respond and you think it is possible for companies to come to market with these structures to sort of change and move to something more equitable? julie: it would be more equitable if everyone had one vote per share. people in the past like mark zuckerberg, if they want to maintain in the company control, they should hold on to 51%.
that makes sense. this't see any reason why business of corporations being stressed out about quarterly earnings, that is something that has been an issue for years and years. it doesn't mean it is right or that companies should be worried about quarterly earnings and not about sort of growth over a long time, that it is not a reason why there should be a majority vote for class b shareholders at facebook. emily: kelly -- julie goodridge, ceo of northstar. i want to bring in the kirkpatrick wrote the book on facebook and current when who covers facebook -- kurt wagner who covers facebook. >> not going to pass. emily: definitely not going to pass. >> it is the fifth year julie has presented these that all shares should have one vote
instead of the 10-1 splits. for the last four years it didn't work and she didn't expect it to. mark zuckerberg said they would vote against it. we know how it pays -- plays out. many put forth these to make some sort of statement but in this case what is the point? is to make aint fundamental argument for what could reform this company's governance, and it is stunning 83% of the shareholders that are independent voted to support this last year. that is unusual in corporate governance that independent shareholders would be that much in favor of anything. extremelybviously strong opinion among shareholders for not affiliates of mark zuckerberg that this is a change that needs to be made. view is a wide and growing
that even beyond facebook, super voting shares are one of the reasons we have a view of silicon valley as increasingly irresponsible. company wherer after they eliminated shares they got rid of travis kalanick. there are plenty of cases where this has caused problems. if i was a shareholder who spoke, i don't believe it is either or, that you have a dictator or you just have to be a slavish follower of wall street's short-term mentality. there are other middle term functions. emily: there are other tech companies that have this, alphabet and companies coming to market like lyft has that. snap. in order for any proposal taking any real momentum, what mark zuckerberg have to quit? kurt: yes. he is at 58% control of all of
the votes. right now there is nothing that will happen without his say. there are people that would a large numbert of people including institutional investors to back this and it might finally sway him to make a decision or make a change. the other thing is if people play against the stock price, shorting the stock, trying to drive it down, could that -- we have not seen that happen and facebook has had a good run on the stock market but we are waiting for mark zuckerberg. is a growing chorus of people calling for facebook to be broken up. chris hughes, in cofounder and regulators in-- the united states, lawmakers in canada who requested mark zuckerberg and sheryl sandberg in canada. they did not show up. they sent other facebook executives. at what point does this course
get loud enough to make more of a change -- chorus get loud enough to make more of a change? david: i am not sure breaking into its parts is the answer. i think governments will play a role here and with regard to the question of what could cause this super voting shares to become eliminated, it is possible the sec or even congress could decide it should not be allowed. is it would be eliminated interesting to speculate about. i believe in the case of facebook, zuckerberg has had too much power and has not thought through the issues that affect the company's long-term success. it is not the case because the share price is ok, not as good as it was a year or so ago, it is ok means all shareholders
should be happy. challengesnnumerable to the social legitimacy that continue to be real. the question of breaking up, i spoke with the head of facebook's policy last week. onika: when i hear people ,sking about if we are too big i ask about concerns of being responsible, safety, privacy and that is why we are doing things to show we are responsible. emily: would you agree? live. she is the i -- is glib. i don't agree. another thing, we need to remain -- only because we are so big and profitable we can spend the money necessary to remediate the harms but that is a clock because they are spending, oning way more than they are
remediating the harm which is why unfortunately or fortunately, shareholders are still thrilled and want to buy it and it has been a generally performing ok stock. emily: what else will happen thursday because this is not the only proposal? there are others including a proposal protesting the nominations of -- to the board. one to step down and replace the chairman. these are being voted on by the same individual with the majority of the votes, mark zuckerberg. facebook recommends shareholders reject these proposals which is a political way of saying we ck them down. there will be some people making a lot of noise. emily: kurt wagner, david kirkpatrick, founder of techonom
y, good to have you both. tesla is getting ready to reveal how much it will charge for its made in three car. -- made in china car. people are guessing on the price. tesla is counting on its shanghai factory to be competitive in china but it could be in jeopardy in the midst of u.s.-china trade tensions. still ahead following the record-breaking ipo in 2014, alibaba is considering a second listing in hong kong. this is bloomberg. ♪
$120 share sell in hong kong. this would rival its thing in new york and 2015. chinese companies are grappling with a deal on the hostile u.s. government. this would bring china's largest company closer to investors on home turf. let's bring in elizabeth fournier who leads our coverage. what we know about this? it is a huge skip over the weekend. we know the alibaba is looking at a playing for come up permission to file this later this year. this is a big queue for hong kong after missing out five years ago but they got their new york one. win is trying to bring -- back a national cover -- treasure of a company. emily: how much does it have to do with trade tensions? elizabeth: the timing is
interesting. it is seeing called a trade war ipo. -- being called a trade were ipo. those kind of investors that use this company every day unlike american investors a child -- that could start turn away from chinese investments. the other thing is hong kong stock exchange has changed its rules around companies that have multiple share classes. the same -- the kite -- it is the type we see from tech companies a lot. there was a longtime time of consultation for alibaba and now it has opened up the market to companies like this to start looking there for listings. emily: alibaba shares have taken a dive over the last six weeks or so. can we attribute that to trade tensions? elizabeth: it is hard to tell. these tech stocks of the first to get hit when there is market uncertainty and the trade war
doesn't help but over the last five years this has become a huge company, still way up based on the public. overall a big success. emily: what steps could alibaba the taking we be looking for towards making a final decision? elizabeth: one of the big things is the bank mandates, who they will be getting an how things are going in terms of conversations with local investors and the local demand. looking at the second half of this year to start the process, a very busy time for these tech listings. , notve had uber and lyft as successful. there are slow companies we are expecting to come to market. there is a march a big tech companies looking to raise money from investors. emily: elizabeth fournier,
that lasted the majority of 2018. big tech companies like at&t and facebook pushed into the market. is our guest. what is behind this? >> it is all about fundamentals. the recent upturn -- downturn and upturn two years ago was not fundamentals but hysteria and momentum. markets are waiting for companies like j.p. morgan, goldman sachs, fidelity to get is happeningand it now. jpmorgan got in. at&t takes bitcoin. fidelity has launched a project. e*trade and facebook might be doing something. you see these currencies have real use cases around the world and is making people excited because they can see the light at the end of the tunnel. emily: emily: some strategists that said it is beyond bitcoin's
intrinsic value. sonny: sonny: you see j.p. morgan with stable coins. they do it regardless of the price of bitcoin by showing these currencies have use cases around the world and are offering to their best clients. they are the biggest validation of this whole space. emily: let's talk about facebook and their secret crypto departments. what are they working on? have no knowledge. i have some ideas. they are trying to be like international then mode, using facebook message or -- like usingal venmo, facebook messenger. great, thek is general currency industry, now j.p. morgan has a point where governors say bitcoin is illegal. it brings digital currency to 2
billion users around the world. and it puts competitors unnoticed. what are google, rakuten, alibaba, what are they going to do if facebook launches a coin that gets traction? emily: at&t is excepting bitcoin as a form of payment. i can pay with bitcoin. it is hard to imagine there are a ton of at&t wireless subscribers that would want to pay in bitcoin. is this a gimmick to make the company seem tech forward? sonny: i paid my will -- my bill last week in bitcoin. i will email you instructions. at&t likes it because it is innovative. they saw the value of it. and it is cheaper than a credit card. they save margins when someone makes a bitcoin payment. it was a no-brainer because they are making money every time. it is more innovative but a better payment option.
emily: are we hitting a peak? do you think it will keep rising or can? sonny: i do because the real products haven't launched. facebook coin hasn't launched, fidelity is still on beta. who knows what will happen. -- it came out of nowhere because the industry changes so much. that is why you have to be long this industry. we are just starting tip of the iceberg. emily: we are waiting for regulators to weigh in and could they throw hurdles into this? sonny: it would be hard if j.p. morgan and facebook have a coin. facebook and j.p. morgan we like eum wetcoin and etheru don't? the industry is waiting for regulations to follow and adhere to to perform everything legally.
emily: i am sure i will have you back to check you on these facts sonny:. look forward to it. emily: predictions from the future. ngh, thankonny si you. the white house plans to create a new panel to downplay climate change and discredit legitimate science on the topic led by controversial security council director william -- he said in the past carbon dioxide is a benefit to the world. he founded an advocacy group that promotes criticism of client science -- climate science. the huawei ceo is defiant in the sanctions. .ur exclusive interview a purge could be on the horizon for amazon vendor's how this could affect thousands of small suppliers. this is bloomberg. ♪ this is bloomberg. ♪ the latest innovation from xfinity
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♪ emily: this is "bloomberg technology." i am emily chang in san francisco. now, to huawei after being blacklisted by the united states in may. the founder and ceo,en zhengfei, says they are prepared to carry on without the business it depends on from the united states. he spoke from the company headquarters in shenzhen. the u.s. has never bought products from us. even if the u.s. wants to buy
products from us in the future, i may not sell to them. there is no need for negotiation. trump, if because me, i may not answer, but he does not even have my number. i have seen his tweets, and they are laughable because they are contradictory. >> the list of companies that supply huawei with components and also software that are now cutting off supply, growing. panasonic, qualcomm, google, as well. i guess the question is, for how long can huawei survive without those components and software? u.s. manages the its own companies. the u.s. is not the international police. they cannot manage the whole world. the rest of the world decides whether they should work with us based on their own business interests and positions.
if some companies do not want to work with us, it is like a hole in the airplane. we are working to fix the hole, but the airplane is still able to fly. of what we have been using, half are from u.s. companies, and have we produce ourselves. we produce ourselves. if the u.s. puts further restrictions on us, we will use more of our own chips. if american companies have permission from washington to sell to us, we will continue to buy from them. >> what exactly have you put in place in terms of contingencies? we might have contingency plans for the core of the airplane, the engine and fuel tank, but we may not have a plan for the wings.
we need to review the situation all over again and fix those problems. to interviewback us in at two or three years to see if we still exist. if we are gone in at two or three years, please remember to bring a flower and put it on our grave. >> you have talked about having a two-year lead on your competitors. mr. zhengfei: definitely, if we ofw down, and if the wing the airplane has a lot of holes, of course, they can catch us up, but we will be fixing the holes. we will fly fast again once the holes are fixed. >> what extent of damage do you think will be filled in the consumer division of the business, smartphones and laptops, which depend on u.s. chips but also u.s. software? mr. zhengfei: we might miss our weected growth target, but
are still growing. being able to grow is the toughest battle in gry ament -- battle environment. that just reflects how tough we are. >> you have bragging rights. you overtook apple, smartphone sales jumping by 50% in the first quarter, and you do have that goal of becoming the number one smartphone maker in the world. does that old now have to be shelved? mr. zhengfei: we can become bigger or smaller. we are not a public company. we are not only pursuing growth and profit. if -- it is good enough for us to just survive. >> there have been calls by some in china for beijing to retaliate against apple. is that an action that china should be looking at taking? mr. zhengfei: that will not happen, first of all, and second of all, if that happens, i will be the first to protest. apple is the world's leading
company. if there was no apple, there would be no mobile internet. if there was no apple to help show us the world, i would not see the beauty of this world. apple is my teacher. us.s in front of as a student, why should i oppose my teacher? i would never do that. >> the critics of huawei would say you got to where you are through intellectual property theft. what would you say to that? the u.s. has not developed that technology. from where should i steal it? it is more likely that they steal our technology, now that we are leading the u.s. trump had so many efforts to attack us. he attacks us because we are now more advanced than them. zhengfeiat was ren with bloomberg's tom mackenzie.
with more follow-up on the u.s.-china trade tensions and the impact it will have on the overall tech industry, we are media by a ceo from a consultant firm joined in new york. so, michael, what was your take fei had to say?ng michael: no one is going to win in this war, so we end up having a risk of having two intranets, china and the rest of the world, so a lot of what he is saying -- a risk of having two intranets, china and the rest of the world. so much of the tech industry is intertwined with the tech interesting -- industry. this may seem it is about u.s. tech supremacy. these policies from the u.s. perspective are really misguided. this is not like steel in terms of being able to shut out one supplier. huawei is integrated with the rest of the world and with the entire rest of the tech
industry, and that is what he says he does not want there to be any retaliation against apple. emily: so some would argue that we already have two internets. china does not have facebook, google, many of things that at least make the american internet so distinct. aren't we already there? michael: well, no. we have apple and an android operating system. how are we going to feel when huawei and other chinese companies create their own mobile operating system, when they are no longer buying american chipsets? i think we are ending up in a world -- we are going to end up in a world that none of us liked, and it will really stymie the growth of american tech companies and leave the chinese market ride open -- wide open for local competitors. emily: that said, do you worry about security risks and surveillance issues that the administration is so concerned
about? michael: i worry about the security and surveillance issues, but i do not think it is just concentrated in these companies. i think any of these companies can be hacked. any of the equipment, whether it is a chinese company or an american company, they can all be used for other means beyond what they are intended for for protection or for good surveillance, so i think that we are, once again, we are focused on these companies because one way or another, they are controlled by the chinese government, but that does not mean we should not be worried about others. some control about one third of the global market chinese companies, but there are less -- lots of other companies, and their company can be compromised the same way. emily: bloomberg has reported on a number of different companies that could be affected the most by the trade tensions, by an increasingly separate china, not just apple but also marriott, nike, marvel.
beyond two internets, what do you see if we keep going beyond this? michael: the problem with this path is it is focused on technology, but it really should not be around protection. it really should be around intellectual property. the biggest risks to most of the american companies, whether they are in oil and gas or they are in technology or any other -- thes, is protecting protection of their intellectual property in china, and that is really where this focus should be. it really shouldn't be just on security, because the security risks are widespread. the intellectual property risks are real, and they are not being addressed. emily: so what are you most concerned about, especially given huawei's leadership position in 5g? michael: i think what i am concerned about is that none of these companies is an island,
and it ends up stymieing the growth of american companies that are supplying the chips, whether it is qualcomm and others who are driving these changes, and so, huawei, he is right. huawei could create their own ship. they have access to a lot of intellectual property, so i worry about the balkanization of the internet, where so much of the technology industry is about companies and countries coming together. emily: now, let's say president trump and president xi do reach an agreement. do you think at this point things can go back to normal, or after this, -- many of these companies would result -- resort to plan b and how they can make their own ships, how they can be more reliant on chinese technology -- can make their own more, how they can be reliant on chinese technology rather than american technology? michael: the impact in some ways
could be greater in u.s. companies. look at how really intertwined the supply chain is of most of the american technology companies, the percentage of the manufacturing that takes place in china. some of that may move to other places like vietnam, but it is really hard to break this up. right now, it can be undone. if we are talking about much farther down the word, dashed down the road, it is going to be much -- much farther down the road, it is going to be much harder. thank youhael wolf, for stopping by. there is a deal valued at $21.5 billion, and it will be the third megamerger of the year in the payments industry, providing software technology to millions of merchants and more than 1300 financial institutions. iting up, amazon and how
small,thousands of longtime amazon suppliers are holding their breath that may favor larger vendors. thingsll stop taking from small vendors and will focus on larger ones like procter & gamble, this to cut costs and compete with the likes of walmart. joining us from seattle our reporter who covers amazon for us, spencer.
spencer, what is going on here? spencer: we have to look at amazon just being more finicky about which vendors it is willing to have wholesale relationships with, so this would be like a traditional retailer, wholesaler reselling to customers, possibly at a markup or a profit, and what it wants to do is have fewer relationships like those and more of these smaller vendors to its marketplace, in which case the product supplier is the one responsible for posting the products on amazon, for advertising them, for overseeing how well they are seeing and all of the management. amazon doesn't want to pay people to do that. amazon wants the smaller brands to do that themselves. emily: this would be, if it is truly happening, a new strategy in a two decades, and a spokesperson told us we review our relationships as part of our
normal course of business, and any speculation of a large-scale reduction of vendors is incorrect. how do you explain that? spencer: i think i would really zero in on "large-scale." there is a lot of room to interpret that phrase, and so amazon is not really disputing that these changes are coming. they are characterizing them in a different way, so all of the information we have is that this is going to be big, affect thousands of sellers, and that there is a big shift that has been in the planning for many months that is coming down the pike. emily: so will shoppers see a difference? spencer: not really. most shoppers, right now, they do not really realize if they are buying something from amazon retail or amazon third party. you see something on amazon and and wait for it to
be delivered. there are some small icons if you are really paying close attention to see where you are buying from, so it is less of a customer move. it is more of a supply chain move and more of a financial metrics thing. amazon is going to have more revenue coming in from its marketplace, less revenue coming from the retail side, and what all of that means is that the marketplace sales are more profitable for amazon, so it is basically amazon trying to get more sales through this more profitable channel that requires less overhead from amazon. emily: but how big a deal is this for a smaller cellar? it certainly seems like it is cutting off a big source of guaranteed business? spencer: it is hard to say precisely. it is not going to affect all of them the same way. some sellers have been preparing for this and getting to know how to sell things on amazon marketplace. for others, a transition if they are familiar. if they are a wholesaler that has just been counting on getting a big order from amazon every month or so and getting a big check from amazon and amazon
is doing the rest, it is going to be a big change for them, especially with the holiday quarter coming if this goes through soon. they have to learn and entirely new way of reaching customers, one at a time -- learn an entirely new way, and they will have to do it quickly. happens, is this more competition for the big retailers like walmart or target? is less more competition for them, more amazon using its own resources more wisely. those that focus on it currently has to maintain these wholesale agreements. it just wants to focus on the biggest and most important ones and not add more people to that department while amazon's overall e-commerce sales continue to grow, so accommodating more growth without hiring more people with the end goal of just making the business more profitable. emily: all right, spencer soper
for us from seattle. thank you for that reporting. committed tos is giving away part of her settlement following her divorce from jeff bezos, one of 19 new mega-donors to join the giving pledge of a philanthropic campaign founded by bill and melinda gates and warren buffett. in theazon stake divorce, worth about $37 billion. she joins other signatories this year, including a hedge fund , jefflists, a cofounder bezos himself not signing the pledge. -- a hedge fund capitalists and a cofounder. jeff bezos himself has not signed the pledge. and making a comeback, why a company is rolling out a new ipad touch, next. ♪
that apple'sing earnings in fiscal 2020 could fall. inculation that may happen response to the trump administration blacklisting of huawei, shares down more than 10% this month. speaking of apple, they have their first updated ipad touch. -- ipod touch, an instant hit, but recently overshadowed by the iphone. i want to bring in bloomberg tech's mark. mark: we are a few days ahead of the worldwide developers conference, and every time they
come out with a major new ios devices,or these occasionally they lose some compatibility. -- ipod touch, has older components and an older processor. now what they are doing is basically adding the chip from the iphone 7, a phone that came out three years ago, basically extending the life cycle, the lifespan of the ipod touch and making it compatible with whatever the next software update is this year. emily: who is in the market for an ipod touch? ipad or an iphone or an an ipod touch? mark: what you are seeing is some parents putting them in the christmas stockings of their kids. respects, anany introductory ios device for kids who may not need or want a cellular plan. of course, it is much cheaper. the iphone x cost thousands of
dollars. this is $200, so it is 1/5 of the price. if you are someone who lives in the android ecosystem in terms of your phone and want an ios device on top of it, a secondary touch is anpod item. ipod touch is another possibility, likewise someone who would like to use a digital camera, so there are plenty of uses for it. these are big and enterprise. you see a lot of stores using them as point-of-sale devices, and it makes sense apple would update it but not update it too -- would update it but not update it too much. really, they are just swapping out the processor. they have been rolling things out over months. emily: ok. apple's this fit into broader content and services push? mark: the ipod touch is now the cheapest way people are able to subscribe to apple services, at
least that is what they are pushing this as an positioning it for. if you go on their website, their marketing and pr copy is all about the services, which makes sense given what we have seen lately. they have also talked about this device as an augmented reality device. there was 2015, the device that was not fast enough in order to support many of the a. -- not fast enough in order to support many of the a.r. apps. all of the stuff you can do on an iphone or an ipad. emily: so we have got the conference coming up next week, and, of course, we are expecting apple to unveil things. what are you looking forward to? should be pretty action-packed. i am expecting updates, the apple watch operating system, but also the ios that runs on the iphone and the mac. the big entrée of the day i
think is going to be unlocking apps, so those who are writing iphone apps can import them to a mac, so look for facebook and others to get into the mac ecosystem for the first time or even the first time in a mat -- in a while, in the case of twitter. also, the apple watch is going to become more independent. that is going to be a big theme, driving the app store, a big move for both consumers and developers looking for additional exposure on the iphone side, not a significant update but lots of tweaks around the system, really hitting on the wish list of some consumers that you can see off-line, and then the ipad is going to get a big update to make it more compatible with more pro features. what you have seen it do with the ipad pro last year was i think quite frankly amazing. i think this is one of the best tablets or computers you can buy. emily: ok, our very own mark