tv Closing Bell CNBC December 23, 2013 3:00pm-5:01pm EST
and pay no taxes for ten years... we're new york. if there's something that creates more jobs, and grows more businesses... we're open to it. start a tax-free business at startup-ny.com. welcome to the "closing bell." i'm kelly evans down here at the new york stock exchange. from headphones to $170 sneakers to this weekend's brick and mortar winners and losers we'll get you covered on all the retail angles this shopping season. >> did you finish? did you start? >> i started and finished. >> oh, good for you. i'm bill griffeth. later this hour we'll take a deep dive into the banks as they respond to the target credit card scam that stole christmas. some banks are taking very drastic action. maybe you've heard from your own bank on that one. now one major player in the banking industry is under fire
for allegedly opening up customer accounts without consent, forging signatures. i mean is your identity safe anywhere? we'll look at that story coming up a little bit. the rally continues on wall street today. >> i mean in this -- you know after we saw what happened, bill, with the fed, the 300-point move we had after the fed decision to taper, you know the aftermath still remains pretty solid. we're adding another 70 points on that index today. >> the dow was 97 at its peak today, light volume. as we always say, can you make money light or heavy volume, or lose money at the same time. >> it still reveals a bias. the bias appears to buy the index. the s&p 500 adding almost ten points at this hour. the nasdaq strongest performer of the day. take a look at some components of facebook in particular as it's added to the s&p 500. up better than 5%. that index again, sitting about 1827. >> let's talk to our "closing bell exchange" gang joe tanney
dick from rmb capital management joe duran, he's also by the way, the author of "the money code," you're welcome, joe. also we have dani hughes from divine capital and our own rick santelli. dan y i'm going to start with you. this rally has been off to the races since fed meeting last week. is this the santa claus rally or a ben bernanke rally? >> i think we've had one of those all year bill. we have seen it just since they declared their goodwill. we've gotten a little understanding of what the taper is actually going to be. so, i think because of that we felt there was a little less uncertainty and markets rallied behind that. i expected to see that throughout the rest of the year. it's going to be very light volume. the economic data we're expecting is going to be pretty muted. again, we have some expectation of what's going to happen with the fed next year. that's really what's driving anything, i think, really until we see first quarter earnings. that's what we're waiting for.
that's a little ways away, though. >> yeah next year. joe duran, you say we're in the beginning stages of a profound long-term rise in interest rates. before we get into why you think, so i just want to know is this a change in view or have you been saying this for, you know, some time now? >> no. we've, become more aggressive in that view. clearly we're going to keep rates on the short end very low. but go the fed is letting off the throttle it's because they see the economies taking care of it for them. that implies we're going to go back to much more growth. maybe closer to 3% plus. and if they're going to keep rates low on the short end, you'll start getting some pricing accretion. you'll see more pressure on longer rates and more pressure on the stock market to go up simply because we're reflecting a stronger more bullish
economy. >> if that's the case joe, you mentioned longer rates. it's the 30 years, which is actually one of the -- it's come in a little bit. we've seen the short end of the curve moving up aggressively but some flattening as things on the longer end. >> no the area where i'm a little concerned is the ten-year. again, i don't worry too much on the day-to-day fluctuations. i worry about where we go month by month. if the fed is -- they really don't typically control the long maturity as much as the short end of the curve. what you'll see is they'll force people to finance on the short end, free up money and a lot more spending that happens by consumers. we've had over $2 trillion of wealth creation in home equity alone in the last year. so that's just massive. that's the fuel to this economy. >> you teed it up for rick santelli. let me bring mr. market in right now. the flattening of the yield
curve, there's those that feel the stock market is responding appropriate to the fed's movement from last week, but the bond market is the question mark, why it's not moving up more in terms of yields right now. what do you say? >> i think it's an appropriate day to have this discussion. i'm sorry, joe, i'm not buying your argument unless you redefine what a long and short maturity are. i agree with kelly. i see a five-year up 105 basis points since may. that's normally considered a shorter maturity. it calls into question much. as for the day, there's a movie coming out, walter mitty. i think so there's a lot of walter mittys that must be involved in equities, quite frankly, because i think the equity markets are looking at the very small "t" in taper and getting the last they can squeeze out of the straw. when it comes to the fixed income market, maybe there's less of a tape worm in what savers are getting dinged. the flattening curve, fitz more
than just positions coming off, it's going to be a huge event for 2014 for those who think the fed has this mouse trap under control. >> i don't for a second think -- >> go ahead, joe. >> i don't think the fed has it under control. i think what you're going to see, we think, is that there's going to be a very aggressive catch-up as growth starts coming in and the fed is behind. the fed has not led very much. the wealth and recovery is driven by home prices going up. i'm very concerned about increased volatility next year especially in the stock market. especially as we know people are going to follow and invest in what's done well. that's been stocks and not bonds. so this coming year early on we probably will see a continuation, which will lead to a lot more volatility. >> let's bring joe and dick into this question. joe, make it meaningful for
investors. now we have the tapering mystery behind us. where are you going to put money going into work? >> into the flow of capital. over the past several years you've seen a ton of money moving into the bond markets. we've seen the early stages of that unwinding. i think as a result of that you'll continue to see more and more money going into the equity markets over the next year. despite the fact valuations are never nearly as compelling as they once were i suspect you'll see multiples expand even further. along with that i suspect you'll see the ten-year yield rise up even higher. >> that's certainly what a lot of people, joe, are saying. i just wonder, there seems to be two schools of thought right now. one is that the u.s. will keep benefiting as people around the world pile their capital here because it looks like such a good place to invest. the other one is people think europe will dough better than the u.s. where do you fall? >> i agree with most of your panelists today. i do think this is a good time to think about the impact of
where we are in the cycle. the u.s. is in my estimation in the third and final phase of its bull market and economic recovery. that's why interest rates are rising. they're likely to continue to rise. it's also why u.s. stocks probably end up moving up and move from fair valuation to higher than normal valuation. while europe and japan are still trading at low end of their historical valuations. their economic and stock market recoveries are in the first of three phases. while we're in the final stage. so we're shifting money. >> even with that 50% gain in the japan market, as a matter of fact. dani hughes, do you stay the course with the investment strategy you've been using for the last several months or do you do something different going into 2014? >> well, my investment strategy has been primarily in equities over the last three years. we've been invested in a lot of
dividend-paying stocks. we still have to be in there. i think you have to watch out for 2014 though. correlations are kind of coming off the rails. what we saw right after the aftermath of the financial catastrophes, all correlations went to the fed balance sheet. everything was correlated. just about six months ago we started to see things revert back to their traditional roles where currencies would drive commodities, would drive the fixed income market would drive equities. you're starting to see that come back now. i think that will continue to happen. and when we go to 2014 i don't think equities are going to do as well as everybody's anticipating, personally. >> who's going to do better? >> of all those asset classes? >> sure. >> i think that u.s. dollar will do very well next year. >> and again that might be one way to think about the headwinds we're seeing for some of these commodities. the silver lining bill might be that it means lower oil prices for some consumers. >> we can only hope gasoline prices, all that nonsense. thank you all. if we don't talk to you, merry
christmas. thanks for your thoughts. >> merry christmas. >> about 50 minutes, heading into the home stretch of the trading session. the dow's up about 70 points. a good day for the s&p 500 and nasdaq. again, the outperformer on this one, facebook. >> for art cashin, the bias very flat right now. not a lot of pressure to the buy or sell side. coming up the big banks reacting to the credit card hack at target stores. los angeles times revealing another big bank that's been opening accounts allegedly, without customer consent and forging signatures to make strict sales numbers. we'll look at the ethics and the implications and whether the banks need even more regulation, believe it or not, coming up. and headphones are one of the hottest accessories you can plug into this holiday season. coming up we sit down with the ceo of skull candy. stay with us. you're watching cnbc.
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any. julia with breaking details. >> i'm thinking -- >> we knew we had a delay but not that long. >> unless you're going to the moon and back. >> we'll wait to re-establish that. >> we don't want to you know yet. >> don't google it. don't look it up. >> a major security breach at target has got some holiday shoppers spooked but banks are responding and rolling out safety measures to protected customers. kayla, who i believe can hear us, has details on that. >> i'm only about 100 feet away. >> that's what i knew. >> the banks are rolling out safety measures that vary with one central message. customers who learned they've been impacted should replace their cards immediately.
citizens bank says it will overnight a new card for free. chase and wells fargo, customers can get brand new cards through local branch through instant issuance. security expert says that number could rise. krebs reporting stolen data are already being sold on the underground market for 20 to 100 bucks. cards issued outside the u.s. for more. banks like chase are imposing spending limits on at-risk cards. there's still a maximum of $250 on atm withdrawals, $1,000 on purchases. they raise the question, who will ultimately be on the hook for fraudulent charges? customers will soon not be. banks could file lawsuits against target as they did against tj maxx in 2007.
those ultimately cost the retailer in total $256 million in settlements. lawsuits have already started. a spokeswoman for target said there be a call with states attorney generals to discuss the issue. right now it seems to be spreading and the concern is not going away. kelly and bill? >> it certainly is not. kayla, thanks very much. it's amazing at the size and scale of all of this. >> scary. >> when it's revealed about security. speaking of security imagine your bank opening up checking, savings and credit card accounts on your behalf but without your knowledge. that's a story as reported in this weekend's "los angeles times." the reporter spoke to former wells fargo employees who say they were pressured into unethical practices to boost the bank's profits. >> real sweatshop kind of techniques, from what he was talking about. scott joins us. he was behind the investigation, reporter for "l.a. times," reporter jake zamansky is with us saying this is more of a systematic culture problem in
the banks industry and mark la presti is with us. he says blanket indictments in the industry are not helpful to anyone's cause. scott, give us a sense of what you -- i mean it was an eye-opening article, very disturbing. quickly, what did you discover in your investigation? >> it was eye-opening for us. started out as a very small article on the inside of the business section a couple months ago about wells fargo firing some people that had cheated to meet their sales goals. we thought we should run it. but that might have been the end of it. but the phone lines lit up. and the e-mails started coming in. we got in touch with former and current wells fargo employees and customers all over the country that said, this was a real problem. people were feeling so pressured to meet sales quotas that came down from sort of regional district managers through branch managers, that they were cheating. they were doing things as bad as forging signatures by having to
stay late to talk their families and friends into taking on products they didn't really need. all kinds of things. >> and as you document in some cases, taking their names of family or friends or just other customers opening accounts in their names in order to meet quota, is that correct? >> that's correct. >> jake you're not surprised by this? >> no. there's tremendous pressure at these banks to sell products to customers. they put the profits of the banks ahead of the customers' needs. it leads to this type of fraudulent activity. it's got to be stopped. >> but you're contending this comes from above, that this -- these are not isolated incidents by rogue employees or managers who are simply trying to meet sales goals so they can be rewarded by the head office. >> this comes from the top. this is a systematic problem. they tell these employees, you've got to produce a certain amount of revenue. we have our own goals to meet. so, it's coming from the top. and you see it not just at
wells fargo. i see it at banks across the country. and even on wall street the same kind of activities. it's got to be changed. >> you know mark here's what's interesting. wells shares are actually up 0.8% today but the extent to which the banks are so eager to put, for example, malpractices during the mortgage bonanza behind them a story like this lands and does it not represent major litigation and legal risk for them at least over the next at least, five-year period. >> it certainly does kelly. while it's certainly hard to condone, i certainly don't condone the activity that went on at wells fargo. what we've seen in 2013 is an unprecedented environment of extremely aggressive regulatory activity. over $20 billion in fines. over 194 individuals and entities indicted or enforcement action brought against them. what i'm concerned about, as bill point out, these blanket indictments that wall street is dirty. we have the scandalous films coming out like the wolf of wall
street around the holidays. people need to understand the costs of these fines, the costs of these penalties, the costs of litigation goat passed on to consumers and shareholders themselves. that's where we need to be cautious about indicting the entire industry. >> we asked wells fargo for a statement to respond. this is what they said we strongly disagree with the l.a. times' characterization of our culture. at wells fargo we highly value and support our team members. they know success depends on what is doing in the best interest of our customers. we place a high priority on ethical business practices and do not tolerate any behavior that fails to meet these standards. scott, did you find that there is evidence that this does come from above or are we talking about rogue managers throughout the system? >> you know i think two messages come down from above. and one is, do the right thing. take care of the customers, or
if you don't if you put your interests first, you may be in trouble and you may get fired. the other one is we've got greater sales goals to meet. we've got to try to increase our already amazing sort of profits. and the issue is how well do you police the one message in light of the other one? there are indications here that maybe the sales message was heard a lot louder than the eltices message. >> it's also one their comp is tied to. >> we have dual situation for financial services industry. on the one hand wall street demands every single quart he they see growth in their bottom line. every single quarter, every three months. on the other hand federal government says we're going to put more regulations on you, raise your capital requirements and make it even more difficult to meet those sales goals. is the answer more regulation? >> i don't think the answer is more regulation. unfortunately, regulation has been very heavy-handed and very broad-sweeping in response to
what's happened in the wake of the financial crisis. as i'm sure -- there is really no question that while certain the type of conduct wells fargo engaged in incore gibl cannot be con don't but it would be difficult for anyone to say the unprecedented level of the cost of compliance that exists on the business right now does not put this kind of pressure, not only on the ground level salespeople, but also on the -- >> joe i have a very simple solution. it's out there already. the s.e.c. has this fiduciary duty to put the customers' interests first ahead of your own. if you do that, you'll be fine. you'll make money. if you don't, you'll be held legally responsible. i say, raise the bar and make fiduciary standard across management to put -- >> isn't that currently in
place? >> it is not, mark. it's not. >> the first count of any arbitration that's brought by your firm is breach of fid youary duty. >> it's pending for quite a while. it's in the dodd/frank rule. the securities industry has been lobbying against this. it needs to be enacted. i think that should be the first thing, fiduciary industry rule. >> don't customers already have that? don't you already have a fiduciary relationship, certainly with your wealth management or financial adviser? doesn't that exist? >> it should exist in theory, and most people believe it exists but brokerage firms sell they're own proprietary products. it's not in place. it should be. it's for investment advisers but not for financial brokers and banks. we need toing change that. >> retail banks. >> that's correct. >> very very important story and thank you for your insights on that. mark, jake scott thanks very
much. great job on reporting there. >> thanks, bill. >> say hi to nancy for me too. >> by the way, we're taking a look at markets. still staging a pretty nice rally. the financials, despite what we've just been discussing, some better performers on the day. the dow is up 70 points almost 0.5%. strongest gainers, nasdaq up 40 points. apple finally announcing long-awaited deal with china mobile. will iphones be a hit with the chinese consumer or does apple need to roll out lower end phone to really make a splash over there? and it's one of the stock stories of 2013. best buy really was a best buy. major momentum name. up 240%. but will the run continue into 2014? we'll have a good old fashioned stock brawl.
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welcome back. markets at record highs and adding to those gains today. let's drill down on some of the big movers with morgan brennan taking a look at the rundown. >> thanks, kelly. food, gas and handbags, that's the takeaway from the marketplace. food, darden restaurant surged 7% due to another activist
pressing for the company breakup. darden announced thursday it's planning to sell off or spin off red lobster chain. starboard revealing 5.6% stake in the company. gas, eagle rock energy selling midstream to energy partners for as much as $1.3 million. shares popping 6%. michael kors falling out of vogue with investors. shares slipping 4% after a retail note markdowns on handbags could indicate slower holiday season. gannett, offloading several newly acquired stations. meredith corporation picking them up for $407 million. shares of up 3% to five-year highs while shares of meredith
corp have risen 5%. social media surging, too, facebook shares jumping 5% with the tech company's first day as member of the s&p 500. now up 50% since may 2012 ipo. twitter hitting all-time high. finally, apple signing long-rumored deal with china mobile, world's largest mobile carrier. will begin selling iphones in january. apple rising 3% on that news. >> that explains, again, why the nasdaq is the strongest performer today. >> that's for sure. the dow, as we head toward the close, with 30 minutes left up 70 points. art cashin was telling us a little to the buy side in terms of bias but it's not a meaningful number right now. we're kind of drifting to the close here on light volume. still, the rally continues on wall street today. >> pretty incredible. up next best buy stock has had one of the more momentous runs this year. we'll have a bull versus bear showdown on that stock to see if best buy can keep it going in 2014.
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half an hour to go. here's how the markets are shaping up. dow up 76 points, building on the fact it is as nominal, as -- not the case of the nasdaq, although it is the strongest performer today. $64 a share, facebook is strong on the s&p 500. now that it's added facebook getting a lift, up 0.5%. >> art cashin signaling with the hand signals, i'm learning the hand signals on the trading floor, to the buy $300 million. modest but building as we head to the close. rumor mill has been churning for a while but apple announcing its anticipated partnership with
china mobile. josh lipton has details on that right now. >> bill, the stock of apple up more than 3% today on the heels of a deal with china mobile. apple's ceo tim cook saying he couldn't think of a better way to welcome in the chinese new year on january 31st than getting an iphone into the hands of every china mobile customer who wants one. apple will offer the iphone on china mobile's network. china mobile has over 760 million customers and growing by leaps and bounds. 50 million customers just this year. no details yet on what the iphone will cost. whether china will contract. analysts on the street are busy crunching numbers on what this deal means for apple's top line. rbc expects its partnership to translate into sales of 17 million iphones over the next 12 months which could add $10
billion to apple's annual revenue line. >> thanks very much. 760 million customers, it's a tall order. it's exciting, perhaps, for apple. no wonder ceo tim cook told shareholders we have a lot to look forward to in 2014. >> let's get a tech check. larry, ceo of dyna dnkslinks. larry haverty from gabelli funds. on paper, this seems like a huge deal for apple. is it as big as you think? >> i think the market's underestimating it. if you look at fellow travelers in china, yahoo!'s trading close to $41. that implies a valuation on al alibaba, $210. communication game specialists over $100 billion. pencent has 500 million subs
growing at 7% rate. the chinese like the rest of the world have tremendous demand for communication services. >> well, that's interesting. i've never seen that before. >> yeah you just -- >> did you do that, larry, here. >> he disagrees. >> you don't think this will be as big a deal? >> i don't think it will be as big a deal. it will be the price and the subsidies. in united states we get subsidies on the phone which makes sense. it will be a very small market to add in here. >> explain the subsidy thing for a second. this could be the key point. >> it is the key, kelly. what happens in the u.s. is the carriers that give you the phones literally pay for the phone. so, you're getting the phone for, say, $200 if you sign a two-year plan. what will happen in china is right now, we haven't seen the price without the subsidy, but without subsidies, it's going to be -- >> it's unaffordable. >> unaffordable for most people. i think they have to work something out and look at that
because it is a huge market with huge potential. >> you don't think tim cook knows that already? >> tim cook should know that. and i believe he does. but, you know sometimes it doesn't always make sense. sometimes two and two doesn't always equal four when you look at it. if you look at it right now, apple needs to get into other things. this is just hardware. we mentioned before yahoo!. i think that's a play with their cash. maybe they should get into. they should get into the e-commerce play, searches -- >> apple? >> apple. should get into the play of content and possibly buy a yahoo!. i've been saying for a while, facebook should buy netflix. i said that in january on cnbc when it was $60. now it's high. that may be another play for apple. they have this huge market here they can get into it but they have to get into the commerce play e-commerce other than just the phones. >> they have been making a bunch of acquisitions lately. >> smaller ones. >> yeah. but, i mean what you're talking about is -- it sounds like the kind of thing where you go, well we've got a bunch of money. maybe we need to be in one of these businesses so we'll buy
this huge -- that doesn't sound like the apple that -- that doesn't sound like apple. >> it doesn't sound like apple. but in technology if you don't change, you go out of business. i'm sorry about blackberry. but if you don't change with constant disruptive technology, you're not going to last. and what's going to happen with apple, we'll continue for quarters. if it's not a hot product, everybody will start talking them and bringing them down and then the number gets into the 400 range. if they make a bold acquisition and start getting into other things, long term, evergreen business, that's where they have to be. >> don't you think they have enough cash cushion playing off what kelly was talking about, overseas cash cushion, i'm talking about, that they can play the game of going after more market share and not worry about profitability right away? >> you could do that maybe right away. that doesn't last forever. it happens real fast. people turn off on you real fast. we're talking the market there the android google has a huge play there. >> just real quick. what would be the downside if apple said we're going to
absorb this cost. we're going to subsidize the iphone and in china we'll -- take the 5c for example, 70 bucks, the equivalent. >> that might be a possibility, kelly. we're talking about tim cook's a very smart guy but we'll see. they're trying it out this way. they may have to go that route. kind of like amazon where they're giving you the product to get the content. >> right. >> larry, good to see you. hanging onto the blackberry. larry, if you're out there, we apologize. heading toward the close. the dow continues to inch higher up 80 points with 20 minutes left. we were up 97 at the peak today. when we come back, we're bringing you a retail roundup. the brick and mortar retailers have had a tough go of the holiday season so far. but did extended hours and deep discounts give them a boost on the final weekend ahead of christmas? we're breaking down those numbers coming up. foot traffic in malls may be
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one more full shopping day before christmas. deep discounts extended hours. julia is here to break count numbers for us. julia? >> caller: well bill despite those deep discounts, despite those long hours, it's not looking that good. this past weekend sales fell by single digit percentage at brick and mortar that's friday and saturday compared with last year down by 7%. according to a company called retail next. retailers are under pressure with six fewer shopping days
between thanksgiving and christmas this year than last year. they're offering some of the deepest discounts since 2008 as they look to lure in customers who have been waiting to shop because they're holding out for deals. the biggest winners this holiday season are cashing in on the relatively small but fast growing piece of the pie that are online sales. the national retail federation forecast online holiday sales will grow as much as 15% this season amazon, ebay, as well as retailers like gap and maesy's.
moving away from that kind of branded merchandise. now, one big question retailers have been -- shoppers have been talking about here today, is how much of a loser target will be after its massive credit card breach. america's research group says target has not been dramatically effected but retail consultant growth partners says weekend transactions slipped 3% to 4% this past weekend from last year. and target's brand perception has dropped more dramatically than other companies with data breaches according to brand index buzz score. as target tries to lure shoppers back into a store with its deep discounts, which seem to be working with a lot of the shoppers we talked to, we are seeing its rivals including walmart, benefit. back over to you guys. >> julia, thank you very much.
let's talk about best buy. what a year this stock has had. look at that. up almost 250% just in 2013. >> yeah. is this the top now or is there still more room to run? let's brawl it out, peter keith from piper jaffray thinks there's time to get in. guys, welcome. >> good afternoon. >> michael, i'm interested here we've gotten all the way up to 40. what do you think happens next with best buy? how low do you think shares might go from here and why? >> you know, i think it's a story of a really good management team coming in to a retailer that had a lot of low-hanging fruit and they scooped it all up. i think they've done a phenomenal job. as julia just point out, you're seeing migration of shopping to online. you're seeing a lot fewer add-on purchases of things like power cords for the iphone or remote controls and printer cartridges. i think people are doing that online.
i think this is the last comparable we'll see. the new consoles helped that by 1.5%. after this quarter, i think it's all downhill. i think they're done with cost cut and i think you'll see gross profit dollars down for the fifth consecutive year. that's not a good story. >> peter keith, you disagree. why? >> yeah, we think that this is a big important company and it's been mismanaged for quite a number of years. so we do give credit to the management team. but they've really only been in place for one year. we think they're driving sustainable improvement across the enterprise when you look at sales, gross margin and taking out costs. a lot of the initiatives they put in place, whether it's optimizing some of the space in the store or trying to ship online purchases from the store, some of those things are just starting now. they have not gone through a quarter. we think those initiatives build as we go through 2014 you'll see accelerated earnings growth in the coming year. >> michael, what's wrong with
that thesis? >> the metric to pay attention to is gross margin percentage. it's declined 11 consecutive quarters. it's going to decline, i think, for the next four consecutive quarters. if the impact of cutting prices that you get higher sales and higher gross profit dollars, then that's a good thing. they've had gross profit dollars decline four consecutive quarters. i think it goes down next year. if it goes dourngs the company won't make much money. >> price targets, peter keith, you first? >> we're at $53. we're not street high on out-year earnings. importantly, companies have $1 billion of free cash and no share repurchases built in. >> 18 and i'm confident in the next 12 months. >> 18? oh, my goodness. >> see you in 12 months michael. >> thanks, guys. >> thank you. >> if nothing else bill, other retailers have a lot to learn from best buy.
you'll be sure to see skullcandy head phones. we'll sit down with the ceo next hour to get the latest sales numbers. 12 minutes left in the trading session. the dow right where it was when we started the hour. up 71 points. >> don't you love that? >> it's a rainy day here in new york city. but we recorded record temperatures over the weekend. >> oh, yeah. >> did hot weather mean hot sales for retailers? tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 trading inspires your life. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 life inspires your trading. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 where others see fads... tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 ...you see opportunities. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550
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welcome back. dow was up 97 at the peak. nasdaq continues to boom here, up 40 points. twitter, facebook. have you seen those? setting all-time highs again. we'll highlight those in a few minutes. the s&p is up eight points. any positive close for the dow and s&p, new all-time highs once again. joining me dan, an old friend. you like this market still, even if the fed will begin tapering a little more aggressively. >> because the other part of that was really being committed to an zero interest rate policy. what we said all along is that the fed is going to keep interest rates lower for much longer. >> at least short-term rates right? >> no doubt about it. >> what happens if the long end goes appreciably higher? if the ten-year goes to levels
that start to compete with the yields you can get in the stock market, doesn't that put a cap on equities to some degree? >> i think we're a what a what from that bill. frankly, a steeper yield curve helps the banks. i think that would be indicative of greater money velocity occurring in the financial system as well. and that what really happened because the economy is getting better, which means earnings are going to be improving next year and beyond. and let's think about all the share repurchases that have gone on the last several years, the actual stock market the capitalization in terms of shares outstanding, continues to contract at a time when earnings growth could accelerate. you're spreading earnings over. >> who do you like? which sectors benefit? >> going into 2014 i think you to want be pro-cyclical. what we know about the russell 2000's performance over the s&p, probably indicates u.s. is a good place to be.
industrial cyclical types of names, transports should continue to do very well. >> setting all-time highs. >> yeah. whether they be the rails ort airlines. those stocks should continue to work higher into the new year. >> what about the financials? if the fed's going to taper, presumably again those long yields go up that helps their profit margins, but you also have major regulations coming their way. >> and i think the regulation is clearly been priced in maybe overly priced in. companies in the financial services industry have been focused on shedding head count and getting leaner, more efficient. looks pretty good to me from the financials as well. boy, if those really lead this market has a long way to go to the upside. >> thanks, dan. palisades capital management. we'll come back with the closing countdown for this monday. after the bell sneak attack. nike's air jordans hit the shelves over the weekend and fights broke out again across the country in stores for those
$170 sneakers. we're going to be asking you, come on, fess up how much you have spent on a pair of sneakers. we'll reveal your best tweets after the bell coming up. you're watching cnbc. first in business worldwide. open to innovation. open to ambition. open to bold ideas. that's why new york has a new plan -- dozens of tax free zones all across the state. move here, expand here, or start a new business here and pay no taxes for ten years... we're new york. if there's something that creates more jobs, and grows more businesses... we're open to it. start a tax-free business at startup-ny.com.
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last week we've had a pretty powerful rally for the major averages. dow was up 97 points at the peak. drifted into the close here. we have a gain of half a percent. i had a tweet from a viewer saying, come on, man, we have to hit the highlights today. you're right. we've been remiss on showing you two particular stocks here. twitter, have you seen this today, up another 8%. now 7.5%. another new all-time high. it's 64 almost $65 a share on twitter. that's been an incredible move the last few months. the other one, facebook. it's had an incredible year. doubled in 2013. up another 4.75% just today. another new all-time high around $57 and change. bob pisani ho ho ho. >> once again, considerable hostility to the rally. same story all year. now people saying bob, santa claus rally going to fail this year. number one because we've had the rally because of fed last week. >> this isn't even a santa claus rally. it's ben bernanke.
>> second, rising interest rates are going to kill the whole gain here. i'm not sure about that. in an improving economy, at least for the first part of the year modestly rising rates like we're seeing they're not galloping away from us. i think we have a good possibility to still continue to move forward. >> all throughout the weekend everybody's saying, it's not going to work, bob. so they don't like the rally. >> how about moves like we just saw for twitter and facebook, a lot of these -- >> social media -- >> -- technology stocks that have been so controversial this year, and now they've got the after-burners going here. >> yeah. the important thing is this is not in some vacuum. we are seeing rising buybacks rising dividends, slowly improving economy. the backdrops are not overvalued. they're still modestly valued. i understand the hostility to the rally, i understand the concept of qe2 and the concern about it. but i don't see modestly rising
interest rates. >> first hour of the "closing bell." kelly and i will be here early. join us at noon eastern time for the "closing bell." right now, hour two with kelly and company. i'll see you tomorrow. good afternoon and welcome to the "closing bell." i'm kelly evans on this day on wall street where on lower volume, a quieter week with the holidays, we're still managing to close at fresh record highs. 16,295 just about up 75 points. just shy of half a percent. the s&p 500 turning in a gain of similar magnitude, up almost 10 points. by the way, the nasdaq though twice as big. jumped better than 1% today. up 44 points to 4148. let's get straight to today's panel. eli joins us from "the washington post." kayla and dom chu made it down
here. you have a busy day job. >>. >> how about the idea that when we talk about these social media momentum stocks we talk about this idea that we should maybe look at people selling just to lock in these gains because it's year-end. you want to do something with them. they keep on -- this is way more than doubling the ipo. >> look at this chart. it's up today, 7, almost 8%. 64.64 appears to be the new close. >> my reaction, i said go tweet the fact that twitter has hit $64 a share. >> i already did. >> you know this is one of these cases where you risk having kind of 1990's rebound when you start saying this stock is indeed being priced for some expectation of what it becomes in the future. not reality of what it is in the present. it will prove to be spectacular wrong or spectacular right.
>> i googled facebook when i saw its incredible move the inclusion in the s&p 500, you'll get natural momentum. the only thing i saw where an entrepreneur forgot his i.d. at the airport and tsa let him check in off his facebook. >> just to log into your account on facebook it's probably more secure than other forms -- >> nothing you just said could have been said about the 1990s because none of it from tsa, facebook, twitter -- >> thank goodness for that. >> there's a fascinating discussion going on right now whether is a test boom 2.0. every time i bring up amazon i get a series of angry tweets about how there's an amazon bubble, no profits.
>> i have to say looking at the lobby in my building in new york city, there are at least 80 amazon prime boxes every single day in the last couple weeks. i tweeted a picture of it. people can't even pass them out fast enough. yes, people complain about amazon but it's so dominant. >> juggernaut of a company right now. >> one thing that's encouraging about this rally, it feels like it is now based on fundamentals. we saw good consumer spending numbers out today. don't forget third quarter gdp consumer spending numbers were revised upward. maybe we're no longer relying on the -- we're in a consumer-led recovery that will actually -- >> this brings me to my favorite topic of discussion. it's autos. i'll tell you why. because auto spending in the consumer spending report today in november which was a strong point. a couple things are going on in the auto sector. in particular, one is the credit side of things. if you want to talk about
subprime, a quarter of auto loans are subprime. you want to talk about securitization half of the -- >> quarter of auto loans are subprime but default rate is so much lower on these loans because so many people would rather pay their car loan than mortgage. >> right. >> when you get a month like that that it happens, you know you buy a car, maybe stretch a little. you still have to make that payment in the month ahead. the savings rate comes down a little bit. consumers may have less to spend. it's not necessarily the same -- >> national association of home builders says -- >> also, when you drive a car off the lot, it's worth less. when you invest in a home it's worth more. >> these are numbers open to a lot of skepticism. i'm not saying the national association of home builders
would skew its numbers, but it's very hard to prove with any conclusiveness that a home leads to two jobs. the auto thing is interesting. it is a huge component of gdp because it's an industrial product that feeds very easily into our numbers where google and facebook essentially feed into -- does not feed into gdp. >> they account for intangibles better -- >> as of this summer. my point is, i wouldn't want an economy built on an auto industry because that would an untenable world. where other people can make cars more cheap like that because you have a lot of resource and manufacturing. and robots make cars -- >> the car is your new house. you have all the amenities. it will drive itself. you can tweet while you're in there. everything's making sense. actually on this note i want to bring in for more on today's market action mr. tim seymour, who joins us "fast money" trader extraordinaire. i wanted to ask you, right away
you actually like some of the metals here because of the auto rebound we were just talking about. where in particular do you think you see strength in 2014? >> i look at copper and nickel as the industrial metals. i think corp first of all, technically needs to break out of this $3 to $3.35 area. if you look at consumption side and everything you're talking about with auto sales is the reason why hedge funds are overweight cyclical sectors here. therefore, underlying that are the inputs which are the industrial metals. if i'm playing the auto sector and i'm playing precious metals i would be long mra laid yum and platinum and gold. pladium over gold. you have to spread the precious metal risk because i think gold continues to go lower. again, industrial metals f you look at consensus, they look better. >> what about the dollar though? one of the themes you start to hear about 2014 tim, is that the dollar's going to strengthen. the u.s. looks a little better. the fed may be exiting. how much of a headwind is that for metalings snoor. >> it's as much of a headwind if
you think five-year yieldses which are another indicator to me of global growth which are through 167, 168, that's a strong counterweight to what's going on with the dollar. if i look at commodity prices this is the worst year for commodities in terms of net redemption in commodity funds since 2004 -- >> jpmorgan can't find a buyer for this business. >> all priced in on some level. i think people are cautious with the metals. you've had destocking. commodities in terms of copper and nickel are positioned to do well even though the supply side should scare if you you're concerned here. >> tim, if these metals are doing better and given that a lot of that comes from outside the united states, especially those, you know now in disfavor emerging economies, is this also what you're saying kind of an implied -- there's a lot of catch hype up and we'll see catch-up in ee emergency rooming markets? >> i think people are expecting
china to be the leader of catch-up. they'll have to wait a long time. china has raising rates. they'll try to squelch out growth. korea is how you play industrial growth. korea against japan is a great trade. >> but their debt levels can potentially be worrisome. i would like to ask you about some asia. some point to what's happening in thailand looking at the weakening bot, political unstability. talk about memories of the late 1990s is it too easy and too glib to draw parallels between the asian crisis then and now? >> to tie up that history lesson. that was the domino that started the asian crisis which led to the russian cries which blew up long-term capital which got the fed involved in everything we're probably talking about today. to take a step back no i don't think you have the same story. if you look at thailand, this is a country where they have $170 billion in reserves zero
inflation. very little unemployment. they have a political crisis and that's what's going on. and i think if you look at the current account deficit countries and emerging people are very scared. that's not all of emerging. zach, back to you, i don't think emerging is a blind buy for 2014. but i like mexico. i like korea. i even like russia where i think you have a valuation. >> a couple of good ideas in there. so much is going to come back to the fed, for better or worse, people are starting to look althoughat a world beyond the fed or the taper. jeff lacquerk talking to steve liesman, how soon is the fed going to leave the picture? there's still going to be a lot of uncertainty next year. >> yeah i think -- >> sorry, go ahead. >> i think that's exactly right. i think that the fed is going to be moving very cautiously over the next year. i think that you're going to see small, moderate steps. the one they'll announce in january. they're going to ensure they don't pull the rug out from
under the recovery. they really make sure this is something that is spread out. they want to see how the economy will react to the fed's movers. they want to make sure that the economy doesn't freak out. you don't see another market -- >> this is all one big science experiment, right? we can acknowledge -- >> some people would argue the word science. >> one big chemistry experience something to figure out what's going on. you have to figure if the economy starts going worse, they can go the opposite direction. there is the idea the safety net is there. yeah, you may have kind of lowered it a little bit but it's still around. the fed will be around for a while. >> there are some people looking at the move upward in yields say, the five-year when we talk about the treasury curve, which is pricing in much more aggressive fed stronger recovery than what people on the fmoc certainly want them to think. what if they have to come out and talk that yield down? how could they do that? >> i think that the fed is going
to be very careful in choosing the words around its forward guidance. i think they are now in a situation where they're no longer relying on qe in order to stimulate the markets. now they'll be saying the words we choose around our threshold, the words we choose around potentially adding an inflation floor, words around inflation future are going to be even more important -- even more critical. i actually believe janet yellen may be a little more careful in controlling what the other members of the fmoc say. >> oh, in public. >> she has argued that obviously open debate is critical. she has a heavier hand in terms of making her position known, in advocating for her side. i wonder what you'll see the debate shaped like from around the regional -- >> that's a good one when you consider the fact that the fed has long known inflation expectations are in their own weird way a key variable in inflation going forward. >> or i would say when
individual fed members know there's inflation, their career's at stake by talking quite a bit about those issues. >> career at stake. >> we'll see if they can put the genie back in the bottle. tim, thanks for your impressions. you can catch tim coming up on "fast money" at 5 p.m. coming up on the show no headaches for skullcandy stock. today it was up 11%. holiday sales may be behind the moves. these are pretty heavy times in the audio company. we'll talk to the ceo next. so much for deadlines. d-day for obamacare was today. key sentence there being was. we'll tell you about the latest extension and if millenials needed to support this program care about the future.
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ranked "best overall client experience." welcome back. another day, another record high for the dow jones industrial average. not a bad christmas present. morgan brennan tracking it all. joins us now. >> thanks, kelly. let's start with the big number united therapeutics surging 30%, after receiving unexpected fda approval for a blood pressure drug that was twice previously rejected. analysts raising price targets
on the company. home builders building momentum thanks to kb home getting an upgrade. citigroup upgrading the company too neutral. shares up more than 7% today. and skullcandy getting some sweet news. just in time for the holidays. roth capital raising recommendation on the headphone maker to buy shares of skullcandy popping 12%. can we say music to investors' ears? >> that's for sure. thanks very much. speaking of skullcandy stock, sizzling today, and its products seem to be hot as well this holiday season. joining me exclusively is skullcandy ceo hoby darling. thanks for being here. >> it's my pleasure. thanks for having me on. >> what can you tell us about sales this holiday season? >> overall, we're hearing from retailers is definitely if you have innovative product where we've told a great story around them, doing pretty well. i think everybody is racing for the finish line around holiday, but from what i hear people are
okay. >> what's interesting when i think about skullcandy the difference between you are the beats by dre which came in and grabbed the high end of this headphone space. what do you think speaks to skullcandy this year? >> again, around innovation. if we can innovate and tell great stories around that innovation, i think we'll have a great holiday, even as we look into '14, that will be a solid year for us. but, you know, we want to do what we can and what we talk a lot about is we really want to revolutionize the way people experience audio entertainment. so much more than a marketing company. we want to make sure we're really revolutionizing audio. >> this line caught my attention. you said i firmly believe the headphone and audio category is on the verge of a multiyear product innovation. talk us through that. where are you in that? >> that's exactly right. one of the big things when i left nike to take this job about nine months ago that i really liked about this industry is
it's an industry that really has caught fire with youth culture. and as you look at people you know getting music off iphones off tablets, they're really looking for how do we get more out of our audio entertainment? that's something we're going to push. if you look at where innovation has been in audio over the last couple of years, there really hasn't been a lot of innovation when you look at the rest of the tech sector and when you look at consumer electronics. one of the things we want to do is come into that space, bring a lot of freshness to it and excite our consumer around audio entertainment. >> i have to ask, when you look around and see everyone walking around with headphones and heads buried into their mobile phones in their own little worlds worlds, do you think about or think about the broader societal implications about this? >> that's an interesting question. i think for us when people choose to listen to audio, and there's definitely a lot of great audio out there, we want to make sure we give them innovative ways to experience it. when they're at home for the holidays and enjoying it it's
fantastic. but when we want to be in with audio, music theater, we want to be there and give them a great product. >> some people probably want to tune out their relatives during the holiday season. just an operational, strategic question, i guess, as you said you've been there for nine months. the company has been under pressure and shares were earlier because there was this sense the beats or other make rz werers were going to come in and steal your thunder. are you definitively here trying to position skullcandy for an independent future? how do you make sure your product doesn't get commodityized? >> i think from an independent future perspective, when i came in it was because we wanted to do great things with this company. as we look forward again, that idea that we want to revolutionize how people listen to audio and combining that in a way that no other company can do with our great assets like the kevin durant derrick rose
kate upton, have great consumer products and have more fun with audio. that's a great path forward and we're excited about it. >> hoby, thanks so much. it's phat fascinating, a lens into how the world is changing too. appreciate it. >> appreciate it kelly. have a good one. >> sneaker riots meanwhile, happening across the country over the weekend. new high priced nike air joer dance hitting stores again with no sign of sticker shock as they approach the $200 mark. we want to know how high you're willing to pay for sneaks. tweet us. up next, wacky winter warning from spring like temperatures in the northeast followed by today's pouring rain. what it means for holiday retail. check on a claim...you know, all with the ah, tap of my geico app. oh, that's so cool. well, i would disagree with you but, ah, that would make me a liar. no dude, you're on the jumbotron! whoa. ah...yeah, pretty much walked into that one. geico anywhere anytime.
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welcome back. wild weekend. 70-degree weather in the northeast. half a foot of snow in the midwest. tornado warnings now across the south. all of this just before christmas. how has the wacky weather impacted last-minute shopping? we know people are doing that more than ever. let's bring in paul walsh from the weather channel to break it down. how unusual are these weather patterns? >> it's very unusual, very volatile. a trend we've been seeing for a long time. it happened at exactly the wrong time for retailers. we went into the holiday season with a week less than last year. one weekend less. we've been seeing weather that's incredibly volatile. much, much colder than last year. of course, for the final shopping weekend, we've seen all kinds of wacky weather, as you
said which is impacting store traffic. both demand and also traffic has been impacted and weather's been a wild card this year for retail. >> yeah. i guess i just get a little skeptical. every time we talk about weather being volatile because it's weather. it's volatile. so, i think from retailer's point of view, the question becomes, is there something this year that's so out of the ordinary that it's really going to have an impact relative to years past? and maybe it's the warm weather in the northeast or maybe it's the tornadoes down south. i mean what do you really jumps out here? >> what jumps out to me is the comp to last year and the fact that the weather has such a big impact in terms of driving seasonal demand. we went into this year 10 to 20 degrees colder than last year throughout the first couple of weeks of the holiday season which really drives demand for things like apparel. we actually saw that in internal polling we're doing at the weather channel. for the back half of the season more specifically, the super saturday weekend, this incredible warm-up we saw had another big impact in terms of
driving product demand. and i think it's going to have a big impact in terms of retail on closing out the season. overall, i think the bad weather will override the trend. >> i want to bring the panel in here to show you their thoughts too. just to make sure you're clear, paul, you're asking the weather in cold and warm has helped the retailers here? >> it depends on which retail sector you're talking about. specialty apparel, department stores that have a northeast exposure would have had enough of the right kind of product to at least be in the right position to take advantage of this kind of weather. >> zach? >> so does any of this positively impact online? meaning, if it's really really unpleasant outside, you're not going to want to get in your car and drive, but nothing reclusd you from sitting in your bathrobe and clicking. >> assuming someone can deliver you the packages. >> that's right. so i would expect demand for those seasonal items would have been up. those would have been the category leaders we went through holiday, until this weekend.
>> until this past weekend. >> the question is more like mall traffic is something we have paid attention to but increasingly mall traffic is only one amongst many avenues by which people can attain the goods they need. does the weather have any effect other than the choice of yes, you're going to buy a sweater when it's cold and bathing suit when it's warm. does that impact online? >> yes. weather will impact product choice. typically it doesn't have an impact on top lines with holiday sales. increasingly online sales is starting to replace that negative impact when there's bad weather. >> the devastation of some of these winter storms aside, in the beginning when we got some of these snowstorms in november, the thought was, okay, now this will finally get the consumer out buying sweaters buying jackets. and then this past weekend it was sort of the last-milt blitz to get out to the mall and it was warm, so people wanted to do it. so, it does feel like there have been a lot of sort of well-timed
patterns here, paul as you mentioned. i'm just wondering if this is unique to this year or just retailers saying the same old same old yes, this was good for us or bad for us? what are we going to see in the fourth quarter earning season when that's normally when retailers blame weather? >> well you know the weather is often used as an excuse. it's increasingly, though, a bad excuse. the weather does impact consumer demand. and i think one of the negatives, of course of the season the holiday shopping season. there will be an impact on traffic. i think that will ultimately impact earnings for q4. >> is everyone here done with their holiday shopping? show of hands. you're not raising your hand, zach. oh, are you? >> i'm mostly done. >> paul, are you done? >> yeah for the most part. i use amazon.com a lot. >> you must be a savvy holiday shopper, paul. >> yes, i am. >> i have not been into a store. >> at all? >> for the first time. i've done every single bit of
shopping online. >> what about you guys? >> i went into one store and i'm hoping my family is okay with me buying all of theirs from the same place. >> is that amazon.com? >> they might be watching. >> 75/25. 75 online 25 in the stores for me. >> i would say my birthday is tomorrow. >> happy birthday. >> so i frequently do a lot of birthday around this time of year. one thing that's interesting, too, is the holiday season is not ending at christmas. it keeps going because of gift cards. it keeps going because of online shopping. and i feel like people are sitting on christmas day shopping online with their parents. >> how about nordstrom's having their semi-annual men's sale on the day after christmas. >> people looking at their christmas list and realizesing, there are a few things they didn't get. >> the numbers bear it out. courtney talked about this the nrf saying 10% might shop on christmas day this year. paul, thank you, sir. keep us posted. thanks, panel. coming next, today was the deadline to sign up for obamacare. that changed again.
we'll tell you the very latest on it. plus has administration's push to get millennial's on board worked? we'll hear from a panel of the strange species. staying bill ackman to get active in apple, 2013 has been a big year for carl a can. process, making it easier to try filters and strategies... to get a list of equity options... evaluate them with our p&l calculator... and execute faster with our more intuitive trade ticket. i'm greg stevens and i helped create fidelity's options platform. it's one more innovative reason serious investors are choosing fidelity. now get 200 free trades when you open an account. mine was earned orbiting the moon in 1971. afghanistan in 2009. on the u.s.s. saratoga in 1982. [ male announcer ] once it's earned, usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaa's commitment to serve current and former military members and their families
welcome back. it's december 23rd. this was supposed to be the deadline to apply for health insurance under at fordable care act. that's been quietly extended by 24 hours. eamon javers joins us with more on this christmas eve move. >> hi kelly. it's a little bonus here for last-minute healthcare.gov shoppers. the administration saying that folks will have an additional 24 hours to go out and purchase health care on the website, federal websites. and just within the past few minutes, kelly, administration put out new data saying as of 2 p.m. today, they've had about 850,000 visits to healthcare.gov. that crush of traffic is one reason why they say they really wanted to give this extension to make sure that everybody who's trying to sign up for today's deadline, has a chance to actually do it and can get health care that goes into place by january 1 st kelly. >> eamon, is is there an indication as to whether or not the website is actually coping
with all that volume? >> they say it is coping with the volume. they say the volume they've gotten now is five times higher than it was the previous monday. they say they've had to implement some of the procedures that they have in place for when it has more than 60,000 concurrent visitors to the website. a lot of this stuff is stuff that's just been built in the past couple of months. according to the notice that the administration just put out about five minutes ago, they say the website is handling that traffic well. and they think all those people will be able to do what they need to do on that website. one of the people that did what he needed to do was president obama who was through a staff aide able to sign up for obamacare over the weekend. >> but he -- he doesn't actually need insurance, does he? >> that's right. his health care insurance, like all presidents, is covered by the military. so, he didn't really need to do this. the white house said symbolically they wanted him to sign up. they did if in person at the dc exchange because of the sensitivity of the president's personal information. they sent a staffer over but they say the president made all the choices himself and decided
what plan to sign up for and he chose the bronze plan. >> all right. eamon, thanks so much. a tumultuous day for healthcare.gov. another day for people to sign up for health care, but what about the premise of the program? in order to work remember young, healthy people need to be rushing in. my next guests are all young and some are pretty skeptical about it all. boris, senior client service manager is a disk jockey and scott is founder of helpsavemydollars.com, a financial website for young people. autder of "more money please." thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> boris, i wanted to start with you. people like you, millenials, young healthy people are key to the success of the obamacare law but you say you don't want to. why? >> i'm lucky enough to work for a large enough corporation that our insurance plans for 2014 haven't been effected. we don't know how it's going to happen in 2015. but my main concern with the law is that the government has set a
precedent. they've been backed up by the courts that they can compel the american people to purchase a product they may or may not want to purchase. and if we don't do that, then we can levied a tax through the irs. i just think that going forward in the long term that that's very, very bad road to go down. >> what about you, tell us about your situation. >> well, hi, how are you guys, first of all? my situation is i am a cancer survivor myself and i am pro the affordable care act. i work with livestrong. they're pro it. i'm not a politician and i'm not as in tuned with the political jargon that i'm sure come on this show are, but i'm someone that's personally been affected by you know, health issues. and i personally do believe in what it's doing and the benefits of it. >> do you have to sign up adir for coverage or do you get it elsewhere? >> i am an independent contractor, so i am one of the
people that i do feel will affect the most because i do have to go independently and sign up for my health insurance. you know, thing -- >> have you tried yet to -- and are you doing it on the state or federal level? >> i'm doing it on the state level. and, you know i haven't actually -- i haven't enrolled in the affordable care act yet. but that is something i am planning on doing. for miening for the last three years, since it's gone through, a lot of the things have actually been in effect. like as an example, preexisting medical conditions. >> right. i'm just curious, do you face then -- because if you don't sign up and you don't have coverage elsewhere, you would be part, i believe, of someone who would have to pay a penalty for not having coverage. so you're either going to pay 95 bucks, or 1% of your income or sign up very soon here. presumably by march, i believe. >> right. i am insured. i do have health insurance. but it is something -- again, it is something that i am doing. i am going to be enrolling in
the affordable care act. i just found out that it did get extended so that works out perfectly for me. >> scott i mean you hear boris' story, you hear adir's story. what do you say about all of this? >> i think the dynamic of this health care law comes at a bad time where you have young people who are dealing with so many issues. the economic landscape for young people is not looking too good. now we're asking young people to subsidize the rest of the system. and if the administration doesn't get enough young people to sign up for about obamacare, the premiums for some of the older people out there are going to skyrocket. and the risk pool for the insurance companies is going to be way too thin. and this system could, what they call in the private sector turn into a death spiral. >> scott, are you going to need to sign up for health insurance or do you have it elsewhere? >> at the moment i have it elsewhere. but i think that what's going on is the glitches surrounding the website, and there could be an entire new set of glitches coming in 2014 because a lot of
the concerns out there is that the information you're submitting on the exchanges is not making its way to the insurance companies. so you might think you've enrolled but come 2014 you go to the doctor and they -- >> let's look at it from a different point of view. one way to say younger are subsidizing the older sicker population. the other way is to say that if people like boris opt out, because on principle they don't want to be part of it that means the rest of the population is going to be paying more, is that fair? >> well what the government is doing is basically saying hey, it's immoral if you don't sign up. ultimately if you can't afford the premiums as a young person as a millin yell,ennial, if you're dealing with student loans, you have no option but to pay the $95 fee and premiums, which are really high right now. >> if a young person, yes, you have to pay for coverage but it means, for example, that other person, that person with the preexisting condition or that much older, sicker person pays less, does that help, does that
that -- you know can you afford to kind of look the other way and ignore the fact that your involvement is key to this whole thing, to bringing costs down for that population? >> well kel y i understand what you're saying, but i don't really -- i don't really fit in with that view of collectivism. you know, i have to worry about myself and my family, you know. i take the money that, you know, i earn at work and i figure out how i make my budget. and if my budget says i can spend this amount for my health insurance, then that's how much i spend. fy can't do that then i guess i just don't purchase that product. i mean, for argument's sake i did go on the website, healthcare.gov and compared plans from what i have at work to the lowest bronze plan that i can get in new jersey for myself and my wife. and the affordable care act offers me a plan where i can pay 150% of what i'm paying right now. i can have deductibles that are
twice as high. and co-insurance that goes from 80% to 50%. that doesn't seem very affordable to me. >> that's the point. if you opt out, then everyone else who's sitting down around the quich table to make those decisions is going to face higher costs. >> if i could help everyone in the united states that would be a great position to be in. but, unfortunately, i'm really in a position to plan for myself and my family. >> okay. last word, adir? >> yeah. i understand what everyone's saying and i agree to an extent. i personally do believe someone that had a health issue, it is important for everyone to have health insurance. if we can aid that in any way, shape or form i'm very pro that. >> differing views from similar cohort of the population. guys, i really appreciate you coming here and talking through it. great to see. >> you thanks, kelly. >> thank you very much. >> he's no santa but to many he is a gift giver. to others a pain in the neck. up next, a look at carl icahn. a difference-maker for this year. what the role of activists investors will look like in
2014. it's an important issue. plus, all i want for christmas is a 3-d printer? it's not exactly a stocking stufferer but you may see this under christmas trees this year and for years to come. more on how much they cost and who's buying them. ear at the lexus december to remember sales event. this is the pursuit of perfection. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ [ tires screech ] chewley's finds itself in a sticky situation today after recalling its new gum. [ male announcer ] stick it to the market before you get stuck. get the most extensive charting wherever you are with the mobile trader app from td ameritrade.
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and that gives us scale and insight no one else has. investment management combined with investment servicing. bringing the power of investments to people's lives. invested in the world. bny mellon. ♪ i want to spread a little love this year ♪ [ male announcer ] this december, experience the gift of unsurpassed craftsmanship and some of the best offers of the year at the lexus december to remember sales event. this is the pursuit of perfection. as we wind down 2013 we're taking a look at stories that heat up the marketplace in the last 12 months. investor carl icahn kept things
entertaining not only with big bets that paid off but fights with the rivals. >> reporter: from dueling with dell -- >> they actually go out and scare their own shareholders. >> reporter: to agitating apple. >> it's an absurd price relative to the market. >> reporter: no investor has roared louder this year than carl icahn. the activist arguing for change at business after business. >> he's certainly the most vocal. you know he has a very big microphone. he's taking on the world's richest and most beloved companies. >> reporter: but one of icahn's biggest battles this year wasn't with a corporate heavyweight. >> you know i -- i really sort of had it with this guy, ackman. >> reporter: but a rival. bill ackman. >> ackman is a liar. >> reporter: the billionaires brawled live on cnbc over nutrition company herbalife and a decade's worth of animosity poured out. the world watched and trading on the floor of the new york stock
exchange virtually stopped. >> i never said that i want to be friends with you, bill. i wouldn't be friends with you. and you said to me -- >> okay carl. >> -- you would like to be friends so we can invest together. >> carl, do you think i want to invest with you? let's move on. >> i wouldn't do business with you. >> reporter: one of icahn's most memorable moments wasn't about a tiff but a trade. the investor placed a big bet on streaming video service netflix and hit the jackpot. $800 million profit in just 14 months. >> i wanted to sell it about 100 points ago. i really wanted to sell it. my son threatened to leave. >> reporter: a big score for an investor who even as he ages shows no signs of slowing down. >> i think that he is an extremely persistent and aggressive guy. i wouldn't necessarily want to be on the wrong side of a deal from him. but he's a super smart guy. he's got a lot to say. and i hope investors and companies are really listening. >> reporter: if they aren't yet,
they probably should be. scott wapner, cnbc business news. >> such a fascinating story, carl icahn, of course on the cover of "time" magazine where they called him the most important investor in the world. and it's very interesting, guys because there's been a change in rhetoric. from the carl icahn and corporate raiders of the past to oh now, they're shareholder activists. is there really a difference? >> i don't think there is a huge difference. i have to say, look, i mean he's an endlessly entertaining person and he is a person who has strong opinions that can you use as a reference point. that being said, he is also speaking his investments. and i think you have to be careful about this is someone who has a mega phone to basically make an argument for things that will benefit him. that doesn't mean they're wrong -- >> but he's standing for the shareholders and he has shareholdertable.com he's using a bully pulpit, if you will -- >> i don't get it. >> if he doesn't get what he wants, he sells a share.
sometimes he makes a deal with a company, sometimes he doesn't. i would hesitate to call him a shareholder activist. i still think at the end of the day, he's investing for his own book. he's certainly going without a bang, not a whimper. >> that's a shareholder, isn't it? >> shareholders are long hifr term invested in a company and believe in their long-term fruition fruition. that's a different -- >> he did -- >> he said it with apple. he said he wasn't in it for the short term. he wanted a buyback but he wouldn't even tender his own shares into this buyback. he wanted to see it come to fruition. >> you have to say that when you're pumping your own investment on twitter. that was the very first investment he started tweeting. every single time he had dinner with tim cook or they even got aa date on the calendar. >> isn't that transparency? >> it is. he has an axe to grind and everybody knows it. he goes on air. everybody knows he's invested in netflix, he'll talk up netflix, or apple, or whatever energy or
tech company he's invested in. >> you can buy a share of icahn industries. >> iep. >> yes. just with the amount of cash on balance sheets i expect this will be a big theme next year. in between online shopping sprees, you've been checking out cnbc.com. we'll tell you what stories are trendinging. on the ground, in the air, even into space. we repaid every dollar america lent us. and gave america back a profit. we're here to keep our promises. to help you realize a better tomorrow. from the families of aig happy holidays. [ male announcer ] here's a question for you: where does the united states get most of its energy? is it africa? the middle east? canada? or the u.s.? the answer is... the u.s. ♪ ♪ most of america's energy comes from right here at home. take the energy quiz.
welcome back. where is obama care? >> today it's not the big puller today. the big puller is the deep dive we have on amazon. so that's number one. number two was actually about target. target ishas actually eclipsed obama care about whether or not banks could actually start suing target for all they had to go through this weekend. >> backed off on that. she has a big following. >> allen, that's a huge story. i mean basically talk about more headaches for the banks along with target. that's a fascinating point about whether they might turn around
and hold them accountable. and amazon. see you tomorrow. there's a new item that hopes to make holiday hot lists across the country exits 3d printers. a 3d showroom. how's foot traffic? are people really buying these things? >> there has been a gradual increase in foot traffic. we have seen a lot of families bringing their children in and sometimes it's children bringing in their parents wanting to try out this printer. we were able to create this very cool neon bracelet which only took 16 minutes and this gnome took a couple of hours. the time really varies. a couple of other on jegts you can make include this prosthetic hand as well as this great white shark which is perfect for any clasroom.
there were a couple of teachers who looked to revamp their curriculum. >> these things cost a couple thousand dollars but you can make a bracelet? come on. >> true. $2,000 is not that much if it takes my kid away from playing a couple hours of video games to building a really cool device or design. it may sell well for families who are interested in helping their children put together a design and actually executing it and coming out with an actual object. >> only in grenich. >> there are more affluent consumers here. that's something to keep in mind. >> i hope you bring back something for the rest of us here.
>> welcome back. a brawl for the latest pair of air jordans? how much would you pay for a pair of sneakers? paul saying $200 for my son. ridiculous? it will be his only gift. more than what two shares of twitter is trading at. he's talking over $130. the panel here what's the most you have spent? >> i think the most i have spent i will admit is about $120. that's the most i have ever spent. they were running shoes. >> i was angry because i had to -- i was like newly motivated and i was like i'm walking to the store getting the sneakers and then i couldn't believe i was walking out paying that much. >> i'm not going to comment. i spend way too much on sneakers but it's my guilty sneakers.
>> the only reason to spend a lot is if you buy those that you never wear as a collectors item. i could see that like collecting stamps. >> i see. >> he says maybe. >> the birthday and christmas coming up? >> because they're so expensive, double dipping. >> exactly. running down the halls of the federal reserve. these are signs of a sneaker bubble. is this all -- is it the fed's fault that people are paying $107?
>> you can pin everything on the feds. cabbage patch kids even. >> the only bubble we have is a bubble in the use of the word bubble on air. >> but people are interested i think, generally. >> these are not uber rich people fighting for the sneakers. >> in a country of 320 million people, our average applies to almost no one. we do miss when we make these easy generalizations about the consumer and consumer spending. >> i tried to make a market generalization. a lot of it is priced in. can it keep going? i don't know. we have got to hop, thanks so much. >> got to hop. >> we will hop in our new sneaks. melissa, what are you cooking.
>> what do you think when i say big bird oscar the grouch and elmo. >> sesame street. >> exactly. and there are lessons that wall street can learn from sesame street. what could we possibly have in common with sesame street? >> i would expect josh to be able to draw the parallel. over to you guys. >> fast money starts right now. live in new york city's time square, here's tonight's line-up. time to sell the news. the deal we have talked about for months. should you be getting out of the stock? social search facebook shares popping on its first day of the s&p 500. there is another media stock that caught our trader's attention today. time is running out to