tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN June 14, 2011 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT
embarrassing [ laughter ] >> you know, just like blasts you like usher music in the car. >> oh, no! you just killed off 80,000 fans. he plays usher music? great to meet you. you're a close, loving family. whatever does happen i wish you all the luck. >> thanks, piers. >> best of luck. >> thank you. >> we begin with newt gingrich and new questions being raised be a how he's made money and his non-profit business has raised it and spent it. allegations that the way he has set up his various enterprises may have at the least blurred the line separating profit from non-profit and charity from politics. since he's been out of public office newt gingrich has built something of an empire. he has a consulting business, a production company which makes films, dvd, a health policy think tank, spanish and english language news site. some non-profit and some for
profit. focusing on two businesses, the consulting firm newt gingrich communications and a non-profit he co-founded called renewing american leadership or real. his team denies any wrongdoing. we want to say that from the outset. today a producer from abc news tried to get gingrich to answer questions about the allegations concerning the relationship between these two organizations. here's what our cameras picked up this morning. he told the producer he'd get back to her in a minute and then walked away. then he went on to make his speech, and then he avoided her almost an hour later we watched as the producer caught up with him outside. >> cover the speech. cover $14 million -- >> i'm just trying to ask you a question. >> i'm trying to tell you -- i'm not concerned about that. the american people aren't concerned about that. try covering the speech. [ overlapping speakers ] >> are you not concerned about the fact that your charity you founded has given $200,000 to your own company? >> we too tried to get mr. gingrich to talk to us. the campaign telling us he's
unavailable today. but released a statement denying any wrongdoing. so let me try to explain what this is all about because it's confusing and complex. this is the web site for a non-profit organization called renewing american leadership, real. its mission, which is also listed on its federal tax return is "to preserve america's judeo christian heritage by defending and promoting the four pillars of american civilization, faith, family, freedom and free enterprise". they ask for donations from people saying we are dedicated to educating, organizing, training and mobilizing people of faith to renew american self-government and america's role in the world". you'll see little mention of mr. gingrich outside of some articles he's written. we had producer google archives from the site. this one lists him as the charities's co-founder and has a link at the top to buy one of his many books. until gingrich began running for rez, the site featured pictures of him, more gingrich books and dvds. some of the links were still there as recently as last week.
the bottom line, real is registered as a charity, a non-profit taking donations and distributing them for the public good. yet an audit requested by the state of virginia reveals" gingrich communications inc. provided consulted services to manage the operations of real during 2009 and 2010 totalling 144,460 and $76,000 respective". in other words, a non-profit tax-exempt business co-founded by newt gingrich paid a for profit company nearly 400 -- the payment was made to him for his services. according to abc news those payments were never disclosed on the charity's tax forms. now, both we and abc contacted a man named pastor jim garlow who's taken over the running of real from gingrich's spokesman when mr. gingrich began his presidential run.
the pastor told abc news that real had also to pay gingrich communications full price for gingrich books and dvds they would then sell. gingrich communications denies that saying they got the books and dvds at cost. a spokeswoman for the pastor later told us the same thing. here's how the pastor was quoted. "my concern was, is there any way we can get these a whole lot cheaper" meaning books and dvds. he goes on "we couldn't and we didn't." his spokeswoman said that was a mistaken statement. there are other details potentially damaging. real's 2009 tax returns show that real spent 86% of what it took in. 86% on postage and mail service. that is on developing mailing lists and soliciting donations. now, add to that what it paid gingrich communications to run it and other expenses and you've got practically nothing left for what its actual stated mission was.
nothing critics say except a mailing list of potential gingrich supporters. that's what they're saying ended up from this organization. you basically got a list of donors. now, this the key. gingrich's new campaign spokesman tells us the charity did in fact turn over that list to the campaign. rick tyler who was paid through gingrich communications to run real told abc the same thing. now, if that's true and if the campaign did not pay for that, that very well might be a violation of federal election law. as for the rest here, what the campaign said in the statement today "both real and gingrich communications took great care to make sure all resources were being used legally and ethically". they went on to acknowledge "the payments were perfectly normal and common practice and the books were sold at cost with zero profit by gingrich communications or newt on the sale". joining me is cnn political producer -- >> you were there when gingrich was first asked about this
report today. did it seem as though he and his team had any idea what these yeses were all about or not? >> yes and no. it was a bizarre exchange when i was there. i say yes because in the beginning you saw speaker gingrich kind of avoided, kind of brushed off the producer who kept tossing the questions to him. he went over and conferred with an aide. an aide then came back and said, oh, he doesn't know what you're talking about. but then moments later in the last bit of that clip that you played, the speaker said, you know, the american people don't care about that. this is not something they're concerned about. so it seemed as if possibly he knew at one point but then didn't know. so it's really unclear. it's a really bizarre exchange. >> melanie, help me sort through this. this could be much ado about nothing. but based on what's been reported here, what do you see? what do you see as the potential problem? >> well, i don't think it's much ado about nothing. i think this is quite a problem for mr. gingrich. basically he's got a charity that was set up allegedly for a
charitable purpose but it isn't actually engaging in any charitable activities. instead the main purpose of the charity seems to be fundraising and preparing a mailing list for newt gingrich and paying gingrich communications money and buying books from newt gingrich. really it's a private benefit. >> what's wrong with them paying -- if mr. tyler from gingrich communications was temporarily working for a year or two running real, what's wrong with him earning a salary? >> there's nothing wrong with him earning a salary. but they should have listed on the organization's 990 the fact that gingrich communications was a related entity to real and they were in fact paying that money to gingrich communications. and neither of those things is included in fact on the 990. knowing and willful miss statements on your 990 is in fact a crime. >> for you the biggest issue that this charity promoting judeo christian values and educating people, essentially if it's true that according to our
filing 86% i think it was of their costs were for mailing lists which were essentially getting donors, and then this money that they paid, it doesn't sound like they ended up with much money to actually do much of what they said they were going to do. >> well, i think the pastor admitted that they actually hadn't done any of the things they said they were going to do. that was all what they planned to do. right now all they were really doing was fundraising and in fact buying books and c.d.s of newt gingrich's. this brings the next problem which is a pretty serious one in campaign finance world which is that mailing list that was created was then given to the gingrich campaign. mailing lists, that's a little bit of a murky area of the law. but fact is a mailing list can be an in-kind contribution to a campaign. and because the charity is a corporation, a 501-c-3 corporation, that's banned from making any kind of contributions to the campaign.
so basic lit mailing list is an in-kind corporate contribution to the gingrich campaign. that's prohibited. that's a campaign finance violation. >> if newt gingrich is involved in this charity what is wrong with them handing over a mailing list of people who are like-minded or who like newt gingrich or have donated money to him in the past? you're saying if they handed that over to gingrich communications or to the campaign would charging them for it that's a possible violation? >> that is a violation in fact because the charity is a corporation, corporations are prohibited from making any contributions to campaigns. so the mailing list would be a contribution to the campaign that violates campaign finance law. in addition, it's a real problem for the charity to just be giving its assets away to a political organization. this is the kind of mixing of charitable and political organizations that irs really frowns upon. and of course mr. gingrich should know better having gotten into so much hot water over such similar kind of activities in the late 90s. >> right. and we should say if it was
given. we don't know whether or not they were charged for it and that's a really critical question. shannon, as melanie just pointed out, this is not first time that gingrich camp or gingrich has found himself facing questions over finances. >> that's right. i mean, there's a question about whether newt gingrich has the fire in the belly to run and whether he can actually raise enough money to run for president, whether he's a viable financial candidate. but also, we've seen recently in recent days most of his senior staff just walked out on him last week. that the comments blasting representative paul ryan's medicare proposal plan didn't earn him a whole lot of fans with a lot of conservatives. i just can't imagine this coming at a worse time for his campaign, anderson. >> yeah. shannon travis, i appreciate it. melanie sloan, what is the next step on this? is there an organization that actually is going to look into this beyond reporters? >> well, i feel confident that irs will take a harder look at this. again, mr. gingrich is a known quantity to theist and they really frown on the mixing of
political and campaign activities and charitable activities. and this charity which really bears none of the hallmarks of a real charity doesn't seem to be involved in any real activities, and in fact it's sending misleading fundraisers to people asking for money helping a charity that doesn't have a charitable purpose. >> melanie sloan, thank you, shannon travis as well. to house speaker gingrich and other candidates through the eyes of a skeptic, very sharp and funny skeptic, bill maher, i spoke to him earlier tonight. >> bill, you've been pretty hard on the field of gop candidates so far. i think you said at one point you've seen and i quote more appealing lineups on an episode of "law and order special victim unit". did you change your mind at all after last night's debate? >> no. of course it got even worse. it's tough sledding there. as a progressive, as a sane person just to watch that, to see that republicanism has
really become a religion. and when i say religion, i mean they just have a series of baseless assertions that they cleave to, you know. and it's like if there was just one sane person in that room to give perspective. but there wasn't. so you have seven people up there who are all claiming things like, you know, things we know don't work like reducing taxes will somehow magically increase revenue and show by keeping the profit motive in the healthcare system that's going to solve that problem. so, you know, it's very hard for someone to watch that debate who is not in that bubble. and i am not in the bubble. >> if you had to vote for one of them is there one you would vote for? who would you vote for? i mean, if you had to pick? >> i'd vote for ron paul if i had to pick. i mean, ron paul is at least not a bander. he's sincere. he's got the right ideas about getting our troops home. and i like ron paul.
i think he's a cut from a different cloth than the rest of those people who are of course selling their souls to the corporate interests who back them. and who have just horrible society-killing ideas about america. and either don't know what's real or don't care. >> what do you mean by society killing? >> well, like -- like tim pawlenty and every one of them competing for this idea oftenly reducing taxes when we are on the one hand screaming about how we're in debt and on the other hand the answer is to somehow decrease revenues. you know, they all act like god created the world in january of 2009, and then barack obama completely screwed it up. >> a lot of people thought michele bachmann who i know you've had some choice words for over the months and years did well last night. would you agree?
>> of course not. she did well by what standard? because she's able to speak and complete sentences? yeah, i heard that analysis. oh, she was very effective. she spoke in short sentences and was good. you know, i mean, the standards are so low. let's be honest. we're judging her against sarah palin. that's what it is. and yes, compared to sarah palin, she does look better. because sarah palin comes off as a complete air head like a ditzy housewife, a stewardess i think i called her in the past. whereas michele bachman actually works. sarah palin is not a worker. michele bachman is a lawyer, she's in congress, she studies, she gets her facts wrong but at least she sounds like someone who is a professional in her field. so compared to sarah palin, yes. big winner actually the big winner was mitt romney i think because people are getting used to him and that's what they have to do. at a certain point a lot of this -- >> sorry.
how did you think about newt gingrich? there was that whole issue of loyalty, potential muslim appointees came up. how did you think he did given his problems with his campaign? >> well, you know, i noticed at the end when he was waving it looked like he was waving to the people who used to run his campaign, good by! look. gingrich gingrich, i said a long time ago, has this -- newt gingrich has this reputation that somehow he's the professor in the republican party. he's the idea man. no, he's a nut. and i think people are now coming around to this. that just because he says things that are out of the box doesn't mean they're smart or clever or workable. what is this you're referring to that i may have missed this part. >> we actually have the sound bite. >> we did this in dealing with the nazis and we did this in dealing with the communists and it was controversial both times. and both times we discovered after awhile, you know, there are some genuinely bad people who would like to infiltrate our country and we've got to have the guts to stand up and say no.
>> he was talking about sort of special interviews for muslim appointees to a government based on herman cane's statement. >> right. well, you know, newt never misses an opportunity to bring the nazis into it. he compared obama to the nazis at one point. he said his administration was more dangerous and more of a threat to us than the nazis or the soviet union. so when newt starts trotting out the nazis, you really can't put a lot of money on that. >> going to take a quick break, part two of of our conversation with bill mother we're going to talk about anthony weiner. >> are you as passionate in the sack as your about politics? >> let us know what you think on facebook. follow me on twitter @ anderson cooper. also our first look inside syria the regime doesn't want us there, won't allow cnn. but we found a way inside and uncovered a horror story they're creating for their own people.
we take you across the border into a syrian refugee camp. >> drama and tears in the casey anthony murder trial. her mother, little kaylee's grandmother breaking down as she testified again. and what she once said to her daughter as she got down from the stand. we also hear from casey's former defense attorney who quit on her yet still makes a powerful case for her ex-client. that and much more just ahead on 360. my doctor told me calcium is best absorbed in small continuous amounts. only one calcium supplement does that in one daily dose.
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diarrhea, and abdominal pain. other serious stomach conditions may still exist. talk to your doctor about nexium. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. >> part two of my conversation with bill maher. >> in a world of politicians doing everything from having babies with maid, leaving their wives on the death beds and hiking the appalachian trail, you're guilty of the most humiliating indiscretion of all. you didn't get any! [ laughter ] >> talk about democrats being ineffectual. >> more now on my conversation with bill maher. >> so weiner has provided you with lots and lots of material recently. i don't know if you've been praying to the comedy gods for this.
but i want to play a bit of a dramatic read you can did with jane lynch who i'm a huge fan of. we can only play a bit because it's difficult to play the whole thing because you're actually just reading the text, the tweets that anthony weiner and various women sent back and forth. so let's play that. >> ridiculous bulge in my shorts now. want to see? >> yeah. can you send a pi? i want to sit on your [ bleep ] so bad ride now. >> let me take a pic. >> how do i get it? is it here? >> geez, i have to go. i'll hit you late. >> you get your [ bleep ] to work and save my country from these [ bleep ] republicans. >> we had to bleep out some of that. that as you were saying before the break, that's some of those moments you're happy you're on hbo? >> that's a wonderful thing about hbo we can do things once in awhile that come down the
pike that absolutely no one else can do. that is the verbatim text. we were not ad libbing in any way. we were doing a dramatic reading. but that is his exchange with that blackjack dealer in las vegas. thank god he's in rehab, anderson. >> do you think he should resign? >> at this point, yes. not because i think he did anything so incredibly awful. dick chaney used to go out and shoot birds by the hundreds that were like in a cage. to me that's a lot more psychotic than anything anthony weiner ever did. but the point is this is america. we have to live in reality. >> dick chaney wasn't shooting birds in a cage. he was hunting. >> he was not hunting, anderson. there's a difference between hunting which i'm not a big fan of either and when you go out into this controlled situation where they -- i forget what they do to the birds but they do something where they can't fly. it's the equivalent of shooting fish in a barrel. and yes, look it up. that's what he did. he shot and killed an incredible
number of birds for absolutely no reason than a blood loss. [ overlapping speakers ] >> why do you think he should resign? >> because people won't let it go. because you're asking me about it. because until he resigns -- this is how it works in america. when you do something unspeakable, you know, like be horny, you have to go away. then he can come back. but until he goes away they're not going to let it go and it's going to be a huge distraction. i mean, the democrats were sort of on a roll when this happened and it completely threw them off their game and changed the subject. for the good of the party, which means in my view the good of the country, he needs to go away right now, let it calm down. nobody's going to leave him alone until he does. and then -- then the story will be a comeback which america also loves. go to rehab, whatever that is. i'm kind of with charlie sheen on that one. it's just a hotel you go to for a week where somebody says, you were a bad person. how do you feel? until you nod and they let you go home. but then when he's -- in a year or two people will forget about
it because there'll be eight other scandals that will happen in the intervening time. and we'll kind of forget. these things come quickly and they go quickly. a year from now people will be like, what did weiner do? it was something with his penis. i can't remember. whatever. and then he can come back. people love both stories. but first you have to go away. yes, he has to go away. >> nancy pelosi has now called for him to resign. but it's the first person she's actually called for that on the democratic side. she's never like dollar bill jefferson who was found with i think it was $10,000 in his freezer down in new orleans. she never called for him to step down. there are others who have done things, charlie rank el and she's never called for anybody but she has called for weiner to resign. >> you can never really figure out the rhyme or reason why somebody has to go and somebody can stay. as many people have brought up, why does david vitter continue to serve?
he was calling prostitutes from his cell phone in the senate. bill clinton toughed it out. it's completely arbitrary. i mean, newt gingrich cheated on his wife while she had cancer. same thing as john edwards did. john edwards is the worst person who ever lived. newt gingrich gets to run for president. your hair will go even grayer, anderson, if you try to figure this out. >> i want to get your take on tracy morgan. were you surprised by what he said, offended by it? has he done the right thing in apologizing? >> well, you know, again it's like the weiner going into rehab thing. in this country, you know, nobody can ever just make a mistake and then we move on. we have to beat them down. look, i mean, was it the smartest thing to say? no. but it was a joke. america especially liberals have this pie in the sky idea that somehow all minorities are sympathetic to each other. so how could a black guy say
something about gays? shouldn't they both know about oppression? well, no. i mean, the gay marriage thing out here in california was defeated because black churches. black churches. as much as anybody, they do not like gay marriage. and they have a thing because they're very big on the bible and all that stuff that, you know, it's just a wrong thing to do to be a homosexual. so we should probably get real with that reality first. >> bill maher. always good to talk to you. >> one quick correction on something, when i said dollar bill jefferson i said authorities found $10,000 in his freezer. i was corrected, it was $90,000. still ahead the heart-breaking scene syria does not want you to see tonight. what our reporter found at a refugee camp inside syria terrified syrian refugees literally trembling with fear. >> she's so scared that she's talking, her hands just keep shaking uncontrollably.
you can hear her voice quivering as well. and it's just the trauma of what she's seen, what she was talking about is just so evident. >> also tonight, casey anthony's mom taking the stand again in the murder trial people lining up in droves to watch, pushing each other to watch. see what caused cindy anthony to break down in sobs today. and we'll tell you what she whispered to her daughter in court today. ÷$r
where civilians were mowed down by guns last month. amnesty international believes more than 1,000 people, including 82 kids, have been killed since the crackdown started in mid march. here's another video. take a look. >> this was reportedly shot on friday that allegedly shows protesters taking cover behind a wall. obviously you can hear the gunfire. again we can't see for ourselves. witnesses on the ground risking their lives to talk to us have described the syrian military relentlessly advancing against citizens who are now fleeing their homes and in some cases racing for safety. remarkably, our reporter was able to get inside syria today despite the country's efforts to keep reporters out. at great personal risk to herself i should point out she was able to reach a refugee camp inside syria where she heard first hand what they are fleeing.
tonight she's back in turkey. she joins us now. you spoke to one refugee who fled on friday reportedly the site of at least six deaths on just that day alone. i want to play that for our viewers. >> in the military, army come for them and kill them in front of our eyes. >> did you see this? >> yes. our house? we had the window. and they're shooting the window with fire. if i am sleeping under the window, i will lose myself and i will die. we all go down to the kitchen and we sneak to the kitchen on our stomach. >> you had to sneak into the kitchen on your stomach. >> yes. yes. i come here. the circumstance is so difficult. i'm pregnant. i cannot be here with such things. i have a nervous breakdown. why our president? why our president killing us? killing our brothers and sisters and take them to prison? why?
i just want to ask him this question. >> did she say the security forces were targeting people in particular? anyone in particular? or was it just indiscriminate killing? >> reporter: well, anderson, she was pretty much saying that it was in fact indiscriminate shooting. she was also describing how last friday -- this was really the final straw for her -- she saw a lawyer who was from her neighborhood killed in front of her very eyes. she said he was just heading out of his house, he was not part of the demonstrations, not part of the protest. he was in fact going to meet his sister when he was shot. she was describing how she saw the blood dripping out of the vehicle, out of the side of the door. that is when she and her family realized that they had no choice but to leave. because she's an english literature major. she's 22 years old. she has an entire future in front of her. she says that they have a right to ask for freedom. but given the way the government is responding to the population's requests for this basic right, she had no choice but to flee her own town. >> you took a big gamble
crossing into syria. the government obviously has been keeping journalists out. what else did you find there? what else surprised you? >> reporter: you know, anderson, the condition that these refugees crowded in this camp living in are truly, truly dismal. he's been raining, for example, for the last few days up until in fact this morning. all they have for shelter are these flimsy little pieces of tarp that they've strung in between trees. they have -- the bud. the children, the heat, their filth. they're washing in this river that's dirty. the man who set up this makeshift pharmacy there is telling us that he's running out of medicine. but the children are getting sick. they're relying on the turkish villagers right across the border to bring across -- sneak across bread and other basic supplies. that's how they're able to eat. and then the horror stories that they're telling of what they had to flee.
stories about syrian military torching their farm lands, killing their livestock. many narrowly escaped people fleeing at the last minute as they say security forces were bombarding their areas. and then, anderson, there's also this ever-growing fear that military is inching even closer. they have a number of sports out in the hills saying that every single day the syrian military comes that much closer to those refugees right on the border. >> stay safe. be careful out there. appreciate what you did today. following other stories tonight. 360 news and business bulletin. >> reporter: house speaker john boehner said today that president could be in violation of the war powers act if congress doesn't aprove u.s. military involvement in libya by sunday. the house has demanded an explanation from mr. obama by friday. there's word today that an explanation is being prepared. meanwhile, the president made a whirlwind 5-hour visit to puerto rico today. the rare trip could have political implications.
4 million islanders are u.s. citizens but can't vote in presidential elections. there are 5 million puerto ricans here in the u.s. can. the federal reserve chairman has issued a strong warning to republicans about the debt ceiling. ben bernanke praised them for trying to cut spending but said not raising the ceiling could hurt the credit rating of the u.s. and damage financial markets. and the housekeeper who had schwarzenegger's baby said she and the former california governor never spoke about their son. she also said that maria shriver thought the boy was arnold's and when she confronted her they cried together. she also goes on to say she didn't realize that it was schwarzenegger's son-in-law he grew older and started to resem el arnold schwarzenegger. >> she sold that story to a british paper? >> she did. she says they are claiming that it will be her one and only
interview. >> appreciate it. we take you down under to australia with a little lesson on what not to do when you meet the dali lama. watch. >> so the dali lama walks into a pizza shop. pizza? yeah, pizza shop. and says, can you make me one with everything? >> i'm sorry. oh, yes. >> do you know what i mean? can you make me one with everything? [ laughter ] >> oh. that's clearly impossible. >> i knew that wouldn't work. [ laughter ] >> he laughed over the fact that it didn't work. >> didn't know what pizza was. you know that a joke's in trouble if you've got a
translator off to the side every couple of words. >> yeah. >> it's so bad. so embarrassing. >> kudos to that guy, the anchor, for actually putting his embarrassing moment on tv. i think a lot of people would bury that and make sure that tape doesn't exist and get on youtube. to his own credit he was able to acknowledge what he did just painful. >> not to his own credit. he told a stupid joke to the dali lama. >> well, no, of course there's that. but at least he admitted it and sort of showed up his embarrassment. >> i'm dying for him. let's just say that. >> yeah. i feel bad for the dali lama when he's asking for the translation on pizza? >> he's like one with everything? >> you know what's sad is? it took me like a minute to get the joke. >> it didn't. >> i promise you. i was sitting there thinking, why would he want a pizza with everything on it? >> now i'm cringing for you. >> i know. it's sad. there are so many sad layers it's like peeling an onion. >> and on we go.
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crime and punishment tonight the casey anthony trial accused of killing her 2-year-old daughter kaylee. the prosecution said it's going to wind up its case tomorrow. the defense should start on thursday. a witness today tattoo artist said casey came in for a tattoo after kaylee had disappeared. also on the stand for a second time, kaylee's grandmother burst into tears when the prosecution showed her a photo of kaylee wearing a shirt saying "big trouble comes in small packages." >> reporter: on july 2, 2008, two weeks and two days after kaylee anthony disappeared, never to be seen alive again, her mother casey walked into this man's shop. >> she came in to get tatooed. >> reporter: it was this tattoo shop in orlando. bobbie williams, tattoo artist, is a crucial prosecution witness because of this testimony. >> did you ask her what she wanted done? >> yes,sir.
b,lla vita in a feminine type tonight. >> reporter: bella vita a beautiful life tattoo is what she asked for six days after she says her daughter accidentally drowned. she pleaded not guilty to what the prosecution called a cold, cal actualed murder. >> how would you describe her demeanor? >> normal. >> what does that mean? >> didn't seem upset or anything. pretty happy for the most part. >> did she immediately leave the store? >> no, sir. we ended up ordering pizza. and she actually had a couple of slices. >> reporter: the prosecution is hoping to paint a picture of a callous young woman, using examples like the tattoo and this picture, already shown to the jury. it shows casey in a hot body contest, just four days after kaylee disappeared. so how does the defense plan to explain away the beautiful life tattoo? by trying to convince the jury that it was done to honor her dead daughter.
>> is it customary in your business that people get tattoos to remember their loved one that is have passed? >> they do. >> reporter: potential problem, the tattoo artist testified that later casey anthony said she wanted another tattoo and made an appointment to do so, saying this time she would bring kaylee with her. meanwhile, casey's mother took the stand for a second time and testified she had not seen kaylee winnie the pooh blanket. when cindy anthony walked off the stand it appeared she mouthed the words "i love you "to her daughter who looked away. >> reporter: so the big question is, will casey anthony testify? well, i talked to one of the defense attorneys today. i asked him this question. i said, have you made the decision about whether she'll testify, figuring that's a question he might answer.
he said to me, if we made the decision i'm not telling you. which means one of two things. one they don't want to show their poker hand. or, two they haven't decided themselves. but either way, anderson, if she does testify and it could happen as early as this thursday, it will be a television spectacle. >> for more on today's emotional testimony and what we can expect joining us now is paul henderson a former prosecutor in san francisco and andrea lions, a law professor at depaul university and casey anthony's lead attorney earlier. as i said you're a form member of casey's defense team. >> yes. >> you think she's innocent? why? >> well, because i believe she didn't commit the crime based on things that i'm still obligated not to talk about. but also because there is no real proof that there was even a murder at all. >> andrea, let me ask you, though, we have seen just a litany of lies that casey anthony has told. >> that's right. >> and being a liar does not make you a murderer.
i'm not equating the two. but it certainly goes to her credibility. >> absolutely. it absolutely does. >> and now as the defense is taking over, what do they have to do? what do you think the defense -- i mean are they now going to be hitting this -- i assume we're going to be trying to bolster their argument that she is an abused -- that she's a victim herself of past childhood abuse? >> well, that is what the opening statement said. and of course i'm not in the defense team anymore and i'm not privy to what they intend to prove or how they intend to prove it. there's a difference between thinking that it was a homicide and proving that it was ahood. there's a difference between finding her behavior abherrant, abhorrent or otherwise despicable. i'm a mother. if my daughter were missing for 31 seconds, let alone 31 days, i would lose my mind. but i'm not this particular person. and there's a difference between that and carrying the burden of
proof. and the way that this case has been tried is it's been tried based on her negative character. that the sexually -- suggestive pictures of her with another young woman and that she likes to party and that her behavior is inappropriate. and nobody's going to argue that her behavior is appropriate. but there's a difference between that and a premeditated, planned, first degree murder. >> isn't that the way the case has maybe been tried in the media and a lot of people have paid attention to the photos and her behavior afterward? but in terms of going on in court we've seen a lot of lies and inconsistency in her story and a lot about evidence. >> that's exactly it. it's layer after layer. >> and all those photos. >> it's not one thing. it's all the photos, all the inscent statements, it's all the behavior that you're seeing. it's all of the lies. it's all of the evidence associated with the body. it all adds up. but if you look at the entire picture, and that's what we're going to be asking the jury to do, we're going to ask them to
look and evaluate all the of the evidence that's being presented to them so all of the inconsistent statements. the road that they're building is that this is a person who has consistently lied about this incident. she certainly didn't tell much of the truth about what was going on with her daughter, and then lo and behold the daughter isn't just missing, the daughter is dead. and she's not just dead. the experts are saying that daughter was murdered. and regarding the murder, the story that mother told doesn't look like it's very true based on the evidence, based on the facts that have been presented to the jury, and you couple with her behavior while the daughter was missing, it all just leads to the same conclusion, that this is a person that is guilty of wrongdoing. and i believe that this evidence is going to show that she was guilty of murder. >> paul, do you think that casey anthony will take the stand? >> i think if she's going to go with that defense she's going to have to take the stand because she's going to have to sell it. it's not selling well especially in light of all of the lies and inconsistencies that have been told in the past.
and while i'm aware that people are worked up about this case, people have a visceral reaction when there's a case like this regardless of whether it's in the media or not because this is one of our most vulnerable victims in society. it's a little girl that trusted her mother and ended up dead. >> agreed. >> andrea, though, putting her on the stand, huge risk with that. >> well, that's the problem. i mean, as a defense attorney one of the hardest decisions always no matter what the circumstances is is whether to put your client on the stand. >> absolutely. >> because if you do, all the rest of the evidence just fall away. it all becomes down to do we believe the defendant or not? do we like the defendant or not? >> andrea, i appreciate your perspective. paul henderson as well. >> thanks for having us. coming up later tonight, allegations that a non-profit charity co-founded by presidential candidate newt gingrich paid cash for one of his for profit companies. keeping him honest. hugh hefner's 25-year-old fiancee has a change of heart, calls off the wedding. tonight the runaway bride is on
personal pricing now on brakes. tell us what you want to pay. we do our best to make that work. deal! my money. my choice. my meineke. all right. time for the ridiculist. tonight we had a june bride not to be. crystal harris, the 25-year-old fiancee of 85-year-old playboy founder hugh hefner. we learned today that crystal
harris has called off the couple's wedding which had been scheduled for this saturday at the playboy mansion. mr. hefner treated that crystal had a "change of heart". in other news, an 85-year-old man knows how to tweet. crystal, relationships aren't easy. some days you're the dog, some days you're the hydrant. for most people that's just an expression. i don't mean to be tough on you but what's the problem here? hef is a multimillionaire. he certainly knows his way around the female body. sure, even though these days he may be a little bit slow these days but who wouldn't want to least wedding reception -- i'm sorry. i just don't get it. i have no idea what could have killed the romance. all i can think of is there must have been some negative force lingering in your house. >> i mean, we have cnn playing all the time at our house. >> yeah. whatever happen we know it started off like any other fairy tale between an elderly e rot ca king pin and a woman young
enough to be his granddaughter. he hid the ring inside a music box that played her favorite song, the theme from "little mermaid". regardless, theirs was a classic love story. >> what happens to the other women in the mansion? >> they still come around. every weekend. everyone's there. >> sweet mother of penicillin. here we go. >> but they're not allowed anymore to par take? >> they're not aloud upstairs, no. >> look, crystal, it's nerve-racking. we understand, even a marriage as a cross between coo coccoon and girls gone wild -- but to walk away from hef so soon before the big day? he was already rehearsing his vows. >> to avoid long term injury seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. >> and crystal, this life you're walking away from, it's paradise. everyone knows it is. you know it, i know it, the twins that hef was consecutively
dating while he dated you? they know it. even the local radio station knows it. >> according to the los angeles county department of public health, it's bacteria which causes legionnaire's disease that was found in a water fountain at the playboy mansion. >> crystal, i just hope this is about more than you two fighting over the remote. i totally get it you want to watch the kardashians and he wants to watch reruns of "murder she wrote" but you're not just walking away from a mansion that may have legionnaire's disease you're walking from an 85-year-old man who will love love and support you provide edit doesn't conflict with his indianapolis. and he's vowed he's only up for an orgy for an orgy unless you are. we'll be right back. pain relief that works at the site of pain... up to 12 hours. salonpas.
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