tv CNN Newsroom CNN August 7, 2012 8:00am-9:00am PDT
bolduan. >> my heart goes out to those people. i'm as devastated for them. >> the onetime stepmother of the sikh shares the grief. we are live oak creek coming up. while pictures like these send nasa over the moon. if you absolutely positively don't want to wait in baggage claim, one airline will bring your bag to your home. of course, that comes with a fee. we begin with the brutalized community determined to heal. 48 hours after wade michael page shot up a sikh temple outside of milwaukee, shock and fear giving way to pain, prayer, and resolve. for a third straight night, mourners and supporters plan to gather in honor of victims and survivors and the selfless acts of two men in particular. the temple's leader and a police lieutenant who waved off paramedics after being shot nine
times, if you can believe it. david mattingly is joining me with more on those stories and much more on this case. the wounded officer, lieutenant brian murphy, how is he doing now? >> reporter: well, yesterday, he was listed in critical condition. today, the hospital says there is no change in that. he was shot eight to nine times. he was the first officer to arrive on the scene and actually ran to the aid of a person who had been shot there in the parking lot when he was ambushed by the killer and shot at very close range. his boss, the police chief, says he was shot in the extremities as well and most serious wound in his neck and the most trouble with. he has gone through a cuff surgeries and said to be resting peacefully but he and the two others wounded at the shooting and in the hospital remain in critical condition. >> everyone is keeping them in their thoughts and prayers. what more are we learning about the gunman, wade michael page,
and specifically his history of hate? >> reporter: what we're finding out is that he did not make his feelings about white supremacy a secret and this went on as a partner of behavior for decades dating back to the days in the army. he talked about a coming race war with one of his friends there and he would talk about it with a great deal of conviction. when they asked him and challenged him where these beliefs were coming from, they said he would sort of avoid the question. after he left the army, he was then being tracked by the southern poverty law center, their hate watch project because of his involvement with rock 'n' roll bands with a white power theme behind them. so this behavior that he was going through was keeping him on the radar screen by this one organization, but his actions were not enough to call the attention of authorities to give them any sort of alarm as the years went by. in fact, the fbi yesterday saying that his name might appear in some of the files and
cases they have been working on, but he was not under any sort of active investigation at the time the shooting happened. >> hadn't raised enough of a red flag. authorities are not coming up with a motive what they think is the motive behind this massacre. any timetable that you're hearing on when we could learn more on what they think was behind this shooting? >> reporter: all they are saying, so far, is that they are approaching this as it could be possibly a case of domestic terrorism which implies the killer was motivated by his beliefs about white supremacy but that is just something they are going on right now. at this point, the last time they were speaking publicly, they said they did not have enough information to confidently say this is why this happened. as so many cases like this, that is is the most difficult question to answer. >> david mattingly, thank you so much. oak creek, we will speak with you then very soon there. lieutenant murphy isn't the
only hero from sunday's rampage. the temple 65-year-old president gave his life trying to protect his congregation. kaleka's son spoke to cnn. >> i used to have people i used to work with that called me to tell me that what he did in that temple and that good that day saved so many lives and saved so many people. >> reporter: you were told he tried to stop the gunman? >> yes, i was told by several fbi agents that the blood trails and the evidence that are inside, it's blood evidence that shows a battle had ensured and knife next to his body had blood trails on it and blood trails lead to one toward the kitchen and one towards the bedroom, my dad lay to rest. that flag outside, my dad put that flag outside when we bought our first house. >> that is one of the first things he did?
>> we came home from high school and we were laughing. dad, that is going to be an eyesore. you have an elementary school sized flag in your front yard. >> despite kaleka efforts five of his fellow sikhs died. four men and a woman and the youngest was 39 years old and the eldest was 84. a woman who is married to wade michael page's father says the man who opened fire in oak creek, wisconsin, on sunday is not the man she used to know. lori page spoke to our affiliate kuas in denver. >> i would not have known that was wade. what has changed him, i have no idea and, obviously, we're never going to know. he had hispanic friends and black friends. there was none of that. i'm totally devastated. his father is devastated. we're pretty much in shock. my heart goes out to those people. i'm as devastated for them.
>> so many people are devastated. lori page says she lost touch with wade more than a decade ago when she and his father divorced. as we mentioned, shooting suspect wade michael page spent several years in the army and he received training in several areas including psychological war fare. one soldier who served with page said while they were in the army page was involved with white supremacy. page left the army with less than honorable discharge in 1998. chris, first off, why didn't page get an honorable discharge? what more are you learning here? >> reporter: as we started dig is through his service record you find a series of misconduct that led to him getting a general discharge. we believe that one of the incidents at least or one of the last had something to do with alcohol. in fact, a person who served with him in the unit says basically that he got drunk and showed up to a formation and
that led to him being demoted from sergeant, buffed down to specialist, and eventually processed out under general discharge. that's not the same as a dishonorable discharge. general is more like the army coming to you and saying, look. this isn't working out for either one of us. it's not an honorable, but nothing as egregious happened that you would get a dishonorable discharge. it's sort of a middle ground. >> it's really interesting. what more can you tell us about the actual training that page had while in the army? >> reporter: yeah, he was a psychological operation specialist. you've got to be fairly smart to get into this discipline. got to have fairly high test scores. in fact, one of the men who served with him said that was one of the things that really attracted him to page. he thought he was a friendly guy but he said he was a really smart guy as well. they are responsible for analyzing, disseminating propaganda, if you will. dropping leaflets on foreign
populations to sway the people to surrender or to get a certain point of view across from the u.s. military. it can also go much deeper than that. at page's time there during the mid-90s, we believe it was probably more along the line of dropping the leaflets than we are seeing more along the lines of post 9/11 and the war on terrorism. >> are you getting information that page was involved with the white supremacist movement while in the army? >> reporter: this is a soldier that served with him at ft. bragg. he says basically that page did talk about this a lot, that he talked about a racial holy war, a revolution that was coming, said some really nasty things about minorities. but he said also one of the things that really jumped out at him was that he didn't seem like the type that was going to hurt people. he said, you know, i thought it was just talk. he didn't seem like he was actually going to do anything.
quite honestly, if he was saying these things in the mid-90s and this crime happens 14, 15 years later, hard to believe anyone could have really seen that coming. >> excellent point, absolutely. chris lawrence at the pentagon, thank you so much. we will be right back. [ kimi ] atti and i had always called oregon home. until i got a job in the big apple. becoming a fulltime indoor cat wasn't easy for atti. but he had purina cat chow indoor. he absolutely loved it. and i knew he was getting everything he needed to stay healthy indoors. and after a couple of weeks, i knew we were finally home! [ female announcer ] purina cat chow indoor. and for a delicious way to help maintain a healthy weight, try new purina cat chow healthy weight.
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the stage is set for another exciting day at the olympic games. here is what you can look forward to in track and field. american lolo jones looking for redemption after her stumble in beijing in the women's 100 meter hurdles. she will compete in the semifinals. and two-time defending champs misty may-treanor and kerri walsh-jennings are a step away to going for gold. they will face china in the semifinals. all eyes will also be on three u.s. gymnasts competing again today. last chance for gold for douglas
and wieber and mckayla. what are the famous gymnasts doing today, zain? >> bad news to share with you. i'm so sorry about this. gabby douglas fell off the beam and didn't do well but better than she did the last time around in the previous event on the uneven bars when she came last. she came second last at position number seven today instead of eight. the good news is that aly raisman got the bronze on the beam so that's a little bit of something positive here for the u.s. from london today. gabby actually said in a previous interview that she has just been mentally tired after the women's all-around competition and physically exhausted but when she fell off, what she did tell reporters was that i just wanted to show that i was a fighter, that i could get back on the beam and finish my performance really well, which is what she did. >> i believe gabby douglas said yesterday i believe i'm losing
track of time when she fell off the bars which shows she is only human which i guess we all can understand. i want to talk about soccer. a u.s. women beat canada in extra time yesterday and amazing stuff. now there's some sort of controversy surrounding this. what are you hearing? >> well, basically, you know, they are calling it an epic match, an amazing game, but here is the problem. what the u.s. team is saying is that the canadians, for example, they said the coal keeper held the ball more than six seconds which is not allowed so they broke the rules and which is why the referee ended up giving a free kick to the u.s. the canadians are saying is that the referee made some really controversial calls and they were against the canadians from the second the game began and they were just really upset about the offiating of the game. it it doesn't matter now. the u.s. is through, in spite of
all the anger from the canadians. the finals they play japan and that is on thursday. japan beat them in 2011 at the world cup, so they have something to prove this time around. >> epic match ahead of them. we have to get this in. u.s. women's 400 meter hurdler lashinda demus have some followers. >> they are the most adorable cheerleaders i've seen from a mother and son's perspective. >> 1-2-3! >> i think we are having some technical difficulties there. thank you, zain, so much. in men's circling great britain's chris hoy aims to be britain's top gold winner of all time. we will be watching. curiosity on mars less than 36 hours and already seeing the first pictures in color from the red planet.
before you bash the quality of these photos, you'll understand why the pictures look a little bit dusty when you see video of this. fascinating video of curiosity's landing. these are still pictures that we are hopefully showing you of the camera mounted at the bottom of the camera and it captured the two and a half minutes of the, quote/unquote, seven minutes of terror. john zarrella is following all of this and he is near the nasa lab where cure i don't say is being rolled. 297 color images sent back. what do they show? >> reporter: what we are seeing, of course, on the video that we have out there now, is that die scent camera imagery that is made by maylin space industries down in san diego. they have done a lot of work with these color pictures. you're seeing the actual, it's like those old apollo landing images. i understand there's a lot more of those to come.
they will be able to piece together even better descent landing. some of the pictures you're seeing from ground level were taken with that haz cam as they call it and you see mt. sharp in the distance. mt. sharp is one of the places that they want to go and they want to look at, kate, because that is where all of that sedimentary rock has built up over e ions and they believe th can look back far enough in time at mt. sharp to get better idea of what mars was like billions of years ago when it was more earth like and when it was wetter and when perhaps life had a chance to take hold. now, you know, we expect in a little bit now, we may get some more images released from nasa and we will bring those as soon as we can. >> that was the other question i was going to ask you, john. is there any kind of schedule what other images nasa wi be able to give us and what kind of
video we will be seeing? >> reporter: sure. here is how it works. because of the time difference, 14 minutes each way to send signals back and forth to mars, what they are going to do is every day send a suite of commands up to the rover to tell it what to do. take that picture, go here, go there. they are not doing any moving very quickly. they will wait a while until they check out all of the systems. then every day, at the end of the day, the rover sends down a whole bunch of data and one big data dump. so then they process all of that and will get new images. so every day we should be getting -- that image there, of course, was mt. sharp in the distance and the image there taken by the mars reconnaissance orbiter showing curiosity at the ends of the parachute coming down. i would suspect very shortly in that latest data dump they got from the surface of mars that they are going to be some more absolutely spectacular images in better resolution, which is what
we are looking for, higher resolution images. again, mt. sharp in the distance, that's where they want to go. that's where they believe they will be able to find evidence of what mars was really like back when it was more earth-like. kate? >> pretty amazing stuff. great report. john zarrella, thanks. curiosity is supposed to last two years on mars mars but could go longer than its expiration date. we will be watching. we built the tallest skyscrapers, the greatest empires. we pushed the country forward. then, some said, we lost our edge. we couldn't match the pace of the new business world. well today, there's a new new york state. one that's working to attract businesses and create jobs. build energy highways and high-tech centers.
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♪ a full scale battle for syria's largest city and commercial hub could be just days away. ben wedeman is in syria and reports daily heavy shelling and bomb by artillery and fighter jets. you can see in these pictures some parts of the city are already nothing but rubble. while many civilians have fled, many more remain, including women and children. ben is joining me now on the phone from alepo. these images are startling. we just got word that the u.n. is pulling ous his its monitors because of the security situation there. what are you seeing on the
ground today? >> reporter: what we have seen today is a series of air raids by the syrian air force on areas around the old citadel, the old city and what not. we saw helicopters scraping rebel-held areas and steady bombardment we saw from yesterday. overnight we got very little sleep because of the artillery bombardment that went on all night and intense at 3:00 in the morning. now, this afternoon, after one of those syrian air force air raids, we were outside a field hospital where we saw at least half a dozen wounded being driven up and as well as several dead bodies in the back of pickup trucks. the field hospital was really completely overwhelmed. we have spoken to the doctor before the wounded arrived. he said that they are short not only of medicine and medical supplies, but he also is short of staff, because many of the
nurses and doctors he was working with are unable to get to the parts of this city that are held by the rebels. he came out of surgery with his rubber gloves full of blood and he was pleading with people on his cell phone to come and help him because he simply could not deal with the level of injured who were arriving at the hospital. the areas near the front line, people have left. there are still hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of civilians living in the rebel-held areas. this morning we are at 6:30 in the morning we were outside a bakery where a hundred people were lined up to get what little bread is available. one man told me that his entire family sleep in the stairwell of their apartment because of the fear of the bombing.
he said that they have very little in the way of supplies. one other woman told me they have run out of cooking gas and that she is cooking on firewood she picked up from public parks. kate? >> wow. just astonishing. you've been doing amazing work there, ben. please stay safe and we will check back in with you very, very soon. a very deteriorating security situation in aleppo and throughout syria and we will follow those developments as we do every day. live to a different event now back in the states. governor mitt romney is speaking now in elk grove village, illinois, just west of chicago. this is a campaign stop and they just held a moment of silence a moment ago for the victims of the sikh temple shooting in wisconsin. let's take a quick listen to what he has to say. >> or stag nation and, of course, an economy on the verge of economic crisis, given the massive debt we have. the president's solution for all of these problems?
is to do more of the same. he wants another stimulus. the last one didn't work. the next one won't either. mr. president obama is simply out of ideas, he's out of excuses and illinois needs to help me make sure that in november, we put him out of office. now, i've got a very different record. when i was governor of my state, we brought unemployment down to 4.7%. not the 8.3% you're seeing today. i was also able to see rising income and wages in my state. we also balanced the budget every year. and rather than leave the state with a financial crisis at the door, we were able to build a rainy day fund of over $2
billion. i also have a plan to help middle income families in america get the middle class growing and thriving again. we need to have america the best place in the world to be middle class and i know how to do that. there are five things. there are five things i will do to get the middle class seeing good jobs, rising wages again, and to tame our budget deficit. let me tell you what they are. number one, we will take advantage of america's energy resources, our coal, gas, refluabrefl renewables and nuclear and in part because of the technology here, we are able to take advantage of natural gas in plentiful amounts and bringing that into manufacturing will bring manufacturing jobs back to the united states just as it's doing here at acmee. these are countries from all
over the world that have operations in the united states manufacturing products and acme is bringing manufacturing back to america, in part, because of energy. i will take advantage of energy to bring jobs back. number two, i want to make sure our people have the skills to succeed. you're seeing those skills being developed as a relationship between acme and harper college. i want to see more effective training programs in this country. i believe we can do that to get our workers the skills they need to succeed. i want our schools, instead of performing at the bottom third, to perform along the very best in the nation. we have to put our kids first and times put the teachers union behind and make sure our teachers and our kids come first. for me, the skills to succeed -- >> there is governor mitt romney speaking there in elk grove
village, illinois on president obama's home turf and speaking about the economy, an issue that both candidates have been hitting on over and over again, as they well should. it's an important issue in this november election. i want to bring in our jim acosta to speak a little bit more about this. we are going to speak with him after a break. stay with us. the power of roc® retinol is intensified with a serum. it's proven to be 4x better at smoothing lines and deep wrinkles than professional treatments. roc® max for maximum results. and deep wrinkles than profess[siri]treatments. sirianother busy day today.ke? are you serious? [siri] yes i'm not allowed to be frivolous. ah ok, move my 4 o'clock today to tomorrow. change my 11am to 2. [siri] ok marty, i scheduled it for today. is that rick? where's rick? [siri] here's rick. oh, no that's not rick. now, how's the traffic headed downtown? [siri] here's the traffic. ah, it's terrible, terrible! driver, driver! cut across, cut across, we'll never make it downtown this way.
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received treatment for his illness. one woman who lost her husband in the shooting said this about loughner possibly admitting guilt and perhaps avoiding a death sentence. >> i was life in prison would be a lot worse for loughner and he has a mind that maybe under sedation he might learn about the lord and that is important to me. >> outside of the federal courthouse is kyung lah. before loughner can change his plea, loughner's competency is key here. tell us more about that. >> reporter: you're right about that, kate. it's a two-step process. so the first part of this court appearance will be a competency hearing and in that hearing that the judge is going to determine whether or not jared lee loughner understands the nature of the proceedings, will be able to assist his lawyers should this proceed to a trial. so that's the first part.
the competency. now this is entirely separate from the nature of the crime itself, whether he was competent during the actual incident. this is simply to determine whether or not he is competent to stand trial. once a judge rules on that, we are expecting the next part of the hearing. something we are looking for today is what jared lee loughner looks like. remember, throughout this entire time, this year plus, we have seen him appear in court with a shaved head, grinning as the charges were announced. in other appearances, having a loud outburst and ready to be tackled by the guards. we are looking to see what kind of mental and physical state that jared loughner is in today, kate. >> if loughner is found mentally competent and he enters a guilty plea, what is next here? >> reporter: what is next is the actual plea change. now, according to the court filings it certainly looks like
that will be the exact opposite of what he is currently pled. he has pled not guilty at this point. the full expectations he will be changing his plea to guilty. >> in addition to the widow we heard from before, any reaction from victims' families will this decision of possibly changing his guilty plea? >> reporter: we have heard from a number family members. we got a statement from mark kelly, the husband of representati representative gabrielle giffords. he said the following. kate? >> i am sure many of the victims
would share that exact same sentime sentiment. kyung lah in tucson, thank you very much. >> a man wounded in the shooting was elected to replace giffords in congress back in june. we will be right back. [ male announcer ] if you have to take care of legal matters. legalzoom has an easy and affordable option. you get quality services on your terms, with total customer support, backed by a 100% satisfaction guarantee. so go to legalzoom.com today and see for yourself.
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just a little earlier we were listening to governor romney speaking at a campaign event in illinois. the event is still going on, but our jim acosta is also there. i want to bring jim in. nice to see you, jim. even before the event started and we're seeing governor romney right there, even before the event started, the governor romney held a moment of silence for the wisconsin temple shooting victims, is that true? >> reporter: that's right, kate. as mitt romney was opening his remarks here outside of chicago in illinois, the former governor did ask for a moment of silence to remember the victims of that
shooting tragedy up in wisconsin. and then he moved right into his speech. he went after the president pretty hard the last several minutes on the economy and on the latest message the day for the romney campaign which is this accusation that the obama administration has loosened work requirements in welfare reform that was passed under president clinton. the white house said that's not true. the campaigns have been going back and forth on this issue over the last 24 hours with some tough ads, some tough responses coming from the obama campaign. but i have to tell you, it's interesting that we are in illinois and some people have been asking the question, why would the romney campaign even bother coming to illinois? i talked to a senior romney strategist kevin madden about that. they said they are not going to waste an opportunity delivering what they call their message the day that is on this issue of welfare reform. he also worked in a few digs in on the economy and here is a bit of what he had to say just a few moments ago. >> the president's solution for
all of these problems? is to do more of the same. he wants another stimulus. the last one didn't work. the next one won't either. mr. president obama is simply out of ideas, he is out of excuses, and illinois needs to help me make sure that in november, we put him out of office. >> reporter: all right now, one ing that mitt romney did not talk about this event is this new line of attack from president obama himself. that was delivered last night when the president was at an event up in connecticut when he referred to the gop contender as romney hood. sort of a reverse robin hood. the president taking from the poor and giving to the rich. i talked to kevin madden about that. he said that we shouldn't expect a response from mitt romney to that line of attack, but madden said this is just typical of what has been coming out of the obama campaign. he said they are long on jokes, long on one-liners but short on
ideas that are working for the country. now after this, kate, mitt romney moves on to a fund-raiser here in the chicago area. part of the reason why he is here in this state. then off to iowa. a key battleground state heading into the fall campaign. kate? >> and then very shortly kicking off a bus tour into some very key states and ending next week in ohio. much, much more to see as this campaign kicks into full gear if it wasn't there already. jim acosta, thank you very much. we will be back after a short break.
have you ever wondered why people refuse to get rid of newspapers or junk mail? they are called hoarders. we have a reality show about that. >> i let everything else go. >> just gradual, over the years, accumulated so much stuff that it's gotten to a point where you could stand it any more! >> wow. you may wonder how can hoarders live like this? new research gives us a bit of a
clue. senior medical correspondent elizabeth cohen is live in atlanta. >> they are trying to get into the brain of a hoarders to figure out why they do what they do. what they did is took junk mail. a researcher in pennsylvania took his own junk mail to hoarders and asked him the hoarders to go through the junk mail. they didn't have problem. they could easily make decisions what was being saved. however when the hoarders went through their own junk mail it was completely different. two areas of the brain lit up that have to do with making decisions about things. prioritizing things. there was this kind of battle in their brain is this important, isn't this important? should i keep it, shouldn't i keep it? it seems to me perhaps an ailment of this disease is an inability to make a decision and decide what is important. >> that's really fascinating. many hoarders if you've watched
some of these shows, they get very upset if someone tries to come in and help them. do the research do the brain scans and explain that element of it, that emotion? >> they do. imagine if you're trying to make what you consider to be a really important decision and you're having a hard time with it and someone off to the side is saying, kate, maybe you should throw that away. maybe that's not important. your instinct might be, wait a minute, i'm concentrating and trying to figure this out, you know? this is an important decision. you may not welcome that intrusion. and, hopefully, what is going to happen here by learning this, doctors will be better able to help these folks. >> people electrhave thought of hoarding as a type of obsessive compulsive disorder. >> the research is saying maybe it's not ocd and not obsess sievely keeping things. it's keeping things because you can't make a decision what to keep and not to keep. it's a decision-making problem
and not an obsession. >> that's fascinating. >> it is. >> fascinating research. elizabeth cohen in atlanta, thank you very much. great to see you. for more on this story go to n cnnhealth.com. one that's working to attract businesses and create jobs. a place where innovation meets determination... and businesses lead the world. the new new york works for business. find out how it can work for yours at thenewny.com.
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we're learning more details about the gunman who opened fire at the sikh temple in wisconsin. 40-year-old wade michael page, while his motive for targeting sikhs is unclear, page's past is telling us, tattoos, it seems which include a 9/11 tattoo and celtic cross. page was a member of several white power rock bands. the civil rights group said it had been tracking page for a while on its radar as a known neonazi skinhead. >> page was associated in addition to this band with a group called hammer skin nation. he may, in fact, have been a patched member. hammer skins are the scariest,
most violent skinhead group out there. so page was in the middle of a scene that really was very violent, hyperpolitical, and he was not on the fringes of this scene. he was really in the thick of it. >> wade page's ties to white supremacists raises a lot of questions about their underground world. it's a world all too familiar, though, for our next guest. frank mink, author of the book "autobiography of a recovering skinhead." frank is joining me over the phone from des moines, iowa. frank, thank you so much for joining me. first, i want to ask you about this case that we're looking at. this tragedy in wisconsin. there's still no clear motive or no confirmed motive in this tragedy. do you think from what you know, would you be surprised wade page was specifically targeting sikhs? >> no, i wouldn't say he was specifically targeting them, but he was targeting anyone whose color was not of his own and
this was good enough for him. it could have been, as they say in the movement, any mud race of people. i don't know if he knew exactly what that religion entailed because it's a pretty compassionate and loving religion. so, but, you know, some people have gone on to say it might have been a thing for muslims but i think to him it was just anyone that wasn't white is good enough. >> and we've heard, we're hearing now a lot about these white power bands and kind of being used as a recruitment tool. wade page was in several of these bands. what more should we know, or what more is there to know about these bands and their role in the white supremacist movement? >> they're a huge part now. a lot of the bigger movements and organizations have been kind of shut down in the recent years. law enforcement are just infighting amongst the groups. but the music continues to recruit because the music keeps the movement young. it keeps the younger kids more into the words and the
literature of what we're talking about. so the more they hear the up and coming rock bands or the heavy metal bands that are into this stuff, it really helps in keeping the movement, young, not sitting on front porch, sitting on the front porch with the shotguns burning the crosses. this continues to get more and more kids involved. so. >> i know you, of course, can't get into the mind of this one man and what he was thinking at the time, but is this kind of extreme violence a part of the culture? >> it is. it is talked about. it is dreamed about. it is preached about the violence like this. the start of the race war. this movement is full of fearful people, and their reaction -- and anyone can say in the white supremacist movement that we're not that way. listen to all the music. really listen to the literature and it all talks about standing up for the white race. fighting, you know, fighting
against the jews. it's all about violence. especially the music. his lyrics jst came to life on live television. >> i know, i mentioned it off the top, you're the author of a book called "autobiography of a recovering skinhead." so on a very personal note, i'm sure many of our viewers, especially as they're seeing all these headlines today would want to know how hard was it for you to get out of this world? out of this movement? what was it that was the tipping point for you that broug about a change of heart? >> you know, for me to get out, i had lost all my friends. i lost every companion, comrade that i ever had up until the time that it was time for me to get out. what changed me, and some people might think it sounds very -- but it was compassion. people were showing me compassion and love. a jewish antique dealer who hired me even though i had a big swastika on my neck. friends that i made who started to prove things wrong to me.
and for me to continue to believe in them hateful beliefs, i was just pounding my head against a wall in the end, because i knew they were wrong. i knew i was just stereotyping people. i got into the movement because i was fearful. i was a fearful young male and when i started to not fear so much the next person, i started using the compassion that was left in me to make friends with people, to understand other people. my world was just completely opened up. if i don't wake up this morning and think about, you know, is my race more superior, is my religion more superior, should i own guns? if i wake up this morning and i think, how can i be more compassionate to another human being i come into contact with, my life is better. >> frank meeink, thank you so much for your insights. >> thank you. so according to the southern poverty law center, there are more than 1,000 hate groups in the united states. that's nearly double the number
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