tv Piers Morgan Tonight CNN December 11, 2012 12:00am-1:00am PST
five things america is talking about tonight. number one, a fiery car crash. one dallas cowboys player arrested, another dead. >> it's something you don't want to believe. you think you're going to wake up out of a dream. >> number two, bob costas, what he says about the latest nfl tragedy and what he says now about this controversial halftime comments about guns. >> there is a gun culture in the national football league.
>> number three, can president obama get his way in washington? >> everybody says we agree with it. let's get it done. >> number four, a daring rescue sees one navy s.e.a.l. dead. >> number five, the dede deejay royal prank. >> we're so sorry that this has happened to them. >> i'll talk about all of that and more with my guests in new york, washington, and around the country. this is "piers morgan tonight." >> good evening. a big story tonight. another nfl tragedy, another grieving family. teammates and fans left asking one question, why? a week after the kansas city chiefs jovan belcher killed the mother of his baby and killed himself, a fiery car crash leaves one player dead and another accused of driving drunk he was released one day after the mercedes he was driving flipped over and his teammate was killed. police officers on the scene said they thought alcohol was a contributing factor.
the cowboys played the bengals on saturday afternoon and won. this is the head coach jason garrett on espn after the game. >> josh and jerry were really close. they were best friends. they spent an immense amount of time together, and they were close. >> joining me now is jerry brown's mother and his grandmother. welcome both to you. first, let me offer you my deepest condolences on this devastating loss to you and your family. it's every mother's nightmare, stacey. how are you bearing up with it? >> my faith. knowing that jerry's in good hands now with god and the strong faith that i have, knowing that i'll see him again one day. >> how did you hear the news? >> the police officer was trying to locate me for four hours, and
finally got my telephone number from someone and called me while i was at work, which he didn't know i was at work. i just wanted him to tell me what was wrong. and he told me that my son was killed this morning, saturday morning, at 2:00 something in dallas, texas, in a car crash. >> when you heard that alcohol may have played a contributing factor, were you angry? you obviously know the man who is accused as well. he's been a friend of your late son for a very long time. how did you feel? >> well, i was upset, but i realized, you know, our youth today are young and stupid, and we were all once that age, and have done things we're not proud of. so i realize everyone thinks they're invincible and thinks it's not going to happen to me.
so because i know josh brent and he's been part of our family since jerry went to the university of illinois, that's all i can do is pray for him and his family because i know he's hurting just as well as we are, because him and jerry were like brothers. >> theresa, jerry was the oldest of 20 grandchildren. very much, i understand, a role model for the family. devastating for you, too. describe to me your reaction to what happened. >> well, stacey called me saturday morning after she had received the call from the police stating that jerry was in a bad car accident and that he had passed away. so i told her everything is okay because he's in god's hands. don't worry about him because he's all right. then i hung up and called the rest of my family members let them know that jerry was in a very bad car accident and he had passed away.
and yes, my feelings, my heart, every part of me aches because i knew the legacy he was leaving for the rest of his cousins, because they were so proud of him that all of them are playing football. not only did he work hard to become a football player, that was his dream since he was a little boy. that meant more to him than anything in the world. that's why i praise god and thank him that he let my baby, which was a beautiful person, loving and caring, anybody who meets jerry would be glad to have him in their lives and a part of their lives. and that young man, josh, i pray for him, too, because he has feelings, and he loved jerry. they were the best of friends. i have no ill feelings toward him. i pray that everything will be well with him and his family. and to let him know that god will take care of him. he will bring him through. because he was a beautiful friend.
they were really friends. >> he released a statement, theresa, which i'm going to read. i'm devastated, filled with grief, filled with grief for the loss of my close friend and teammate jerry brown. i'm also grief-stricken for his family, friends, and all who are blessed enough to have known him. i will live with this horrific and tragic loss every day for the roast of my life. my prayers with his family, our teammates, and his friends at this time. the last facebook posting jerry left was on november 29th. and he wrote the following, that he was expecting a child and he said how the fast life isn't as fun as it used to be after living it for so long. when you look at the problems that so many footballers are having these days, it seems, do you believe that there is a cultural issue there that needs to be dealt with? that the behavior of the players off the pitch, perhaps, needs more concern? >> we can say yeah and then also i think -- i think it's the
individual. because yeah, football life is a fast life. because they're all right in the media. they're always out in the limelight. they're always around people, clubs, getting in free, doing this and doing that. so i think it's the media -- i think it's with everybody in general and then also i think it's within the person, the individual. >> finally, stacey, how would you like your son to be remembered? he obviously was a shining star. a young footballer who has been killed at potentially heading toward his prime as a player. how would you like him as his mother to be remembered? >> well, i would like jerry to be remembered as his faith in god and being the best of friends and just an all-out
scholar. just a good person. if you need a shoulder to lean on, he was always there. unfortunately, his daughter, his soon-to-be daughter who will be born in february, won't get a chance to know her father, but she'll learn about him through us. i just want them to remember him and to keep his daughters in their prayers, and just pray for her family and them. >> stacey and theresa, again, my very sincere condolences and thank you for joining me on a very difficult day for you and for your family. >> thank you very much for having us. >> you have heard of the talk of all this with bob costas. he's the man who sparked controversy last week with his comments about guns. and he's here to talk about this latest tragedy and more. welcome. what was your reaction to jerry brown's family? another case involving bad behavior. >> bad behavior, but not
directly linked or even tough to tangentially link it to the case of javon belcher. >> "usa today" reported 624 arrests have been made on nfl players since the year 2000. >> i think they reported that as at least. you can infer from that that some of that bad behavior went on in cases where the player was lucky enough not to have been arrested. it's actually more than 600. >> they're saying 28% involved alcohol-related crime, alleged crime, whatever the outcome of the cases were. in this case, you're right. they're not linked necessarily, guns and alcohol. what they are linked to possibly is the culture of the modern nfl football player. do you believe, and the reason it's quite relevant here, covering "time" magazine, roger goodell facing all kinds of issues about the league.
>> the league is at a crossroads. >> a crisis, would you say? >> i don't know it approaches crisis, but a crossroads because there's a fundamental nature of the game. it takes a toll on so many who play it. not just body, but as we're now learn, mind and emotions. it's a legitimate question to ask whether for some the toll the game takes, brain trauma, medications to may take to enhance performance or deal with pain, all those things, the culture of the league increases the likelihood of abhorrent behavior. >> it's possible 17% of more footballers carry guns. clearly, most of them have a lot of money. they drive fast cars. they go to nightclubs. they party and all the rest of it. again, i guess it comes back to an overriding sense that the culture of the game is south of control. at least statistics suggest that. what can you really do about it?
>> i'm not sure what can be done about it exactly. the nfl prohibits the carrying of firearms at any facility, practice facility, any event that's connected to the team. they made a public relations appearance in the stadium. i don't know how closely they enforce that. they do prohibit that, and they do tell their players in their stated policy that while it is legal to possess a gun, we actually urge you not to. we urge you if you do possess a gun that you use it strictly for protection of home and family or possibly if you're a hunter. that is an infinitely more likely that something bad will happen if you're armed than something good will happen. >> even as we sat down, a man was shot in broad daylight, literally downstairs here at the cnn headquarters in manhattan. shot in the head, point blank range, in front of christmas crowds. huge crowds. just bringing it right home to where we are, this endemic, as
many see it, of guns in america. >> that's what i was trying to get at last sunday night. do i believe that without impinging on what i take to be the spirit of the second amendment and the legitimate right to own a gun of law abiding citizens to protect themselves and their family without impinging on that, we could easily tighten up the existing laws or expand the existing laws. 40% of all the firearms purchased in this country are purchased without a background check. there is no federal ban on assault weapons like ak-47s or high capacity ammunition magazines or a 50-caliber sniper rifle which can literally pierce an airplane fuselage. there's no purpose for anyone outside the police force and military to have weapons like that. and while there are tight gun controls in some areas, it's ridiculously easy for someone to
purchase a gun online or multiple guns or at a gun show and then those guns wind up in the hands of people in washington, d.c. or new york which may have stricter gun controls but it's so easy to get around the gun controls. you could literally be a felon, walk out of jail, and it would be easy for you to purchase a weapon without any kind of a background check. you could be on a terrorist list, a no-fly lest, and stim acquire a gun in this country. george zimmerman had an arrest record and a restraining order for domestic violence taken out for him in his past. that restraining order had expired. i'm not responding on the whys and where fors that will play out between him and trayvon martin, but what does common sense tell you about the likelihood of that confrontation taking place in the first place if george zimmerman wasn't carrying a gun? >> i couldn't agree more. let's take a break. i want to get into why that
mr. margin? don't be modest, bob. you found a better way to pack a bowling ball. that was ups. and who called ups? you did, bob. i just asked a question. it takes a long time to pack a bowling ball. the last guy pitched more ball packers. but you... you consulted ups. you found a better way. that's logistics. that's margin. find out what else ups knows.
in the last seven days, at least seven players around the league have gone to their team security officers to turn in the firearms they possessed from their homes. i'm also told that one of these players had multiple firearms as javon belcher did, he had eight. one of the players who had multiple firearms told his security officer, i don't trust myself with these guns in the house. please take them away. >> peter king on football night in america last night discussing guns and the impact last
weekend's shooting is having on players. i'm interviewing bob costas. a fast development there, seeing players taking responsibility for their own possible lack of responsibility. >> it wasn't my intent to become a spokesperson in any way for this issue. but if no matter how imperfectly i may have done it a week ago sunday, if this has sparked a conversation and in some small way influenced people's behavior, so much the better. front page of the paper, not the sports section, but the front page of "usa today" is about guns in the national football league. there is a gun culture in the national football league. javon belcher had eight guns. for those who say what if kasandra perkins had a gun? there are guns at the house. she would have had to have it holstered to have it ready when javon came bursting through the door. nevertheless, terrell suggs had to turn in his guns because of a legal action.
nine guns including shotguns and handguns and what not. tank johnson, his were illegal, but he had a virtual munitions plant in his house in chicago. let's use common sense. when tony dungy says when he asked 80 players at training camp, former coach of the colts, how many of you have a gun, and about 65 of them raise their hands, let's use common sense. even if those guns were legally obtained, what do you think over time would be the ratio between unintended and tragic consequences, including accidents, but also including times when people snapped and impulse got in the way, anger got in the way? the ratio of that as versus the times the gun would be used for a good outcome for legitimate self defense. it's common sense to see where that's going to line up. >> the argument that was thrown at me, and hands up, i come from a country with strict gun control. very few gun owners there, we
don't have a second amendment. we don't have a right to bear arms. and it's not my country in that sense, therefore i have absolute respect for the constitution. what i find difficult is the way the pro-gun lobby, and i use the phrase quite deliberately. a certain type of pro-gun lobbyist twists this debate in a very unhealthy way. they always say it's never the gun, it's always the person, with a clear indication that the people are evil and they perpetrate evil with these stories. three stories, december 5th, a 4-year-old boy accidentally shot and killed his younger brother in minneapolis with his father's handgun. december 6th, a 7-year-old finds his grandfather's gun and shoots his sister. december 9th, a boy is shot when a gun goes off in a parking lot. these aren't evil people. these are kids. and they just happened to
stumble across firearms. >> and in fairness, there are legitimate instances of self-defense, either a justifiable homicide or where the presence of a gun deterred someone up to no good. you have to consider in the larger context how many bad things happen because of an attitude toward guns in this country. that's what i was trying to get at on that sunday night. my mistake was and i acknowledge that, normally, we have about two and a half minutes. here we had 90 seconds. i thought it was self-evident this was a domesvien issue. i alluded to a culture, but those who think i'm reluctant to hold the nfl accountable are not familiar with my work. i have made many points to the culture of the nfl, asked many questions of roger goodell and officials and plan to do so in the future. are drugs involved, alcohol involved? yes, all of those things.
but guns are among them. it seems that some people want it to be about everything and anything but guns. i don't think it's only ou guns, but i think that guns even if legally obtained, people's attitudes toward guns are definitely a part of this problem. could javon belcher, as people have noted, this is obvious, could he have stabbed her? yeah, i knew o.j. simpson. could he have strangled her or thrown her out the window? yeah, but the presence of a gun makes it much more likely that something like this will occur. much more likely. >> what i also find disturbing is a lot of it is driven by fear. you'll see the moment the aurora shooting happened. one single shooting in american history. you'll see immediately out come the pro-gun lobbyists saying if everyone in the theater had been armed, he wouldn't have done what he did. to me, it's such a facile argument. >> it would be comical if it weren't so tragic. you're in a darkened theater. people start shooting willy-nilly.
think of the empire state incident a few month ago where some guy goes in to take vengeance on former co workers. the police show up. these are highly trained people with firearms. they eventually shoot and kill this guy, but nine innocent bystanders are hit in the cross fire. this stuff doesn't always play itself out like a movie. >> in that case, in the following month, the 44% spike in gun sales in colorado because people bought in mentally to this. this saying, if you had been armed, you would be okay. >> you can see how someone feels a sense of comfort and peace if they have a firearm. they can protect themselves at least theoretically. no one is saying, at least i'm not saying and most people i know, aren't saying you shouldn't be able if you're a law-abiding citizen, if you pass a background check, if you take a safety course, and in fairness
to the nra, they're big on that. if you take a safety course, if you meet all those requirements, you ought to have a gun in your home for protection. perhaps under certain circumstances, you ought to be able to carry a gun, all those things are fine, but there's a whole range of stuff that falls outside that definition that puts us in far more peril than it is likely to protect our safety. consider the circumstance of aurora. since nobody knew for sure that a guy dressed like the joker was going to come in and start spraying bullets everywhere, in order for those in the theater to be armed and ready to respond, if follows they have to be armed at all times. that means you have a bunch of people walking around in the supermarket, at the starbucks, walking their dog, taking their kid to the park, all armed. over the course of a year, how off do you think that would lead to tragedy and how often do you think it would lead to safety? that's my question. >> pure accident, the three stories i read.
president obama has flirted in his career with banning assault weapons. he's got a second term. he's not going to face re-election. is it time for him to show some proper moral leadership here and actually do something or try to do something? >> again, i'm not positioning myself as an expert, but as a private citizen, i would like to see him do that, yes. i would like to see him do that. i think that people on both sides of the aisle cower before the gun lobby. the gun lobby has some legitimate points, but the laws that govern us and the steps we take ought to be geared toward the larger public good. there are obviously some people out there who have some apocalyptic vision that the federal government is going to lean toward tyranny and they're going to be holed up with their own munitions plant and they're going to resist it. i don't think people with that mindset ought to have undue influence on our government policy. >> thank you for coming in. brilliant analysis on what is a
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mitt romney and paul ryan just aren't up to the task. they're beholden to the "my way or the highway" bullies, indebted to billionaires who bankroll their ads, and allergic to the very idea of compromise. >> former governor charlie crist with tough talk at the dnc about mitt romney and paul ryan. he was a republican leader. over the weekend, he switched party becoming a democrat. charlie crist joins me now. welcome to you. >> good to be with you. thank you for having me. >> you were a republican. you morphed into an independent. now you're officially a democrat. tell me about your journey and why you have ended up in president obama's camp? >> as i said at the convention, i didn't leave the republican party. the republican party left me.
what i mean by that is issue after issue, they seem to get more strident and more difficult, if you will, less tolerant, less welcoming, whether it was immigration or education or voter suppression that we saw recently. each and every one of these issues really was counter to my values, that my mother and father raised me on. and the kind of ethics that i believe in that we should be a tolerant people. a welcoming people. and try to have a big tent as a party rather than try to shrink things. and the republican leadership, i really don't think the republicans, my mom and dad still happen to be republicans, but i think the leadership of the party today has moved in a direction that even jeb bush said not long ago, probably it would be difficult for ronald reagan to succeed in today's republican party. >> what do you parents make of your defection? >> they're happy about it. my father is the son of a greek
immigrant. my mother's family immigrated from ireland. and we are a nation of immigrants, as you know. you being one, i assume. and because of that, i think the tolerance that we should have as a nation doesn't stand for deportation. and an education, it doesn't stand for lessening the funding of public education. when it comes to voter suppression, it doesn't stand for denying people the right to vote. they should have that opportunity. they should be able to exercise it. they should not have to stand in long lines and republican officials across the country made it hard for people to vote, but god bless the people, especially here in florida, piers, they were willing to stand in line even after the results of the election were known. they still stayed in line and wanted to cast their ballot. >> it was pretty extraordinary to watch that and a great tribute to americans and their believe in the voting system and the power of their own individual vote. newt gingrich says if hillary clinton runs in 2016, there's no
gop candidate whose name has been mentioned who could possibly beat here. would you agree with that? >> she would be extremely formidable. secretary clinton has done an extraordinary job as secretary of state. she served very admirably in the united states senate. the state of new york has a wonderful partner in president bill clinton who i had the pleasure of campaigning for in the state. and i think hillary clinton would be a extraordinary candidate and do very well. >> 22 days to go until the self-created cliff really may or may not happen. a lot of very disgruntled people about the way that politicians and washington have dealt with this, believing it's just a game to them, where a lot of people, it's a very serious business, and indeed, the world is watching with genuine alarm.
if this does happen, it could have catastrophic effects on global markets. what is your view, and what needs to be done to get a deal, do you think? >> well, you couldn't have said it better. i think that the world is watching. there's no question about that. and i think it's incredibly important that a deal is reached. an optimist, piers. i believe a deal will be reached. i had an opportunity to get to know president obama. i think he is a wonderful leader, and i think he leads with grace, which is most important for a situation like this where you have mutual respect, and as you know, the main partners are himself and speaker boehner. i think the fact that they met yesterday is a very encouraging sign. i have faith that they will be able to get this done. and i quo it's the right thing for america to reach a deal to work together, to be willing to compromise, and do what is right for the people instead of a party first. that's what america wants. >> governor, thank you very much for your time. i appreciate it. >> piers, my pleasure. thank you.
coming up next, the stories america is talking about. more nfl tragedy, a navy s.e.a.l. killed. a powerhouse panel back with that and more. we're working with a growing list of almost two thousand corporate partners - companies like microsoft, american red cross and adobe - to create options for you. not only that, we're using what we learn from these partners to shape our curriculum, so that when you find the job you want you'll be a perfect fit. let's get to work.
battleground america. tragedy in the nfl, guns and more. joining me to talk about this, dan harris, brad, gary, and kristen, republican pollster and vice president of the winston group. welcome to you all. let's start, brad, with you. a riveting interview with bob costas earlier outlining really while he believes the time has come for america to have tighter gun restrictions. i know you have strong views on this. tell me why an average american who lives in an average home needs to have access potentially to an assault rifle. >> well, it's in our constitution, it's in our bill of rights. we have a second amendment that allows us to defend ourselves. it's not only defense, but as i see so eloquently stated, it is to defend ourselves ultimately against a tyrannical government if that happens. the difference between liberty and tyranny is if you have a
government that is afraid of its people, you have liberty, if you have a people afraid of their government, it's tyranny. >> do you believe that, that you're going to rise up against a tyrannical presidency in your country? >> i would be the first one out there leading the country. we have three boxes in the country, the ballot box, the soap box, and then the bullet box if it's necessary. the government needs to be afraid of its people. then it will serve the people of this great republic. >> james, what is your view of that? >> well, i guess i approach this on two levels. on the merits of what the second amendment is and is not for, i would have a different view of its historical purpose. the framing of the second amendment talks about a well regulated militia. we would disagree there. as a matter of political reality, however, i have come to believe after living around a lot of the world, this situation is really not going to change in the united states.
in australia, for example, after the port arthur massacre in tasmania, a very conservative prime ministership of john howard had sweeping gun control. my view is that is not going to happen in the united states because so many people feel the way mr. thore does. >> kristen, why wouldn't they embrace it given that there are over 300 million guns in america, with the shooting just this afternoon, at columbus circle, 200 yards from the studio. execution style hit. most people didn't seem that bothered by it. it wasn't that shocking. in britain, it would be the biggest story for weeks. it's such an endemic gun culture that almost no outrage seems to register with people. >> it's unfortunate where if it's a high-profile tragedy like in aurora, colorado, people talk about it a lot and then the story fades away. you have not seen a lot of
political will on either side of the aisle toward actually changing the laws around guns. i think the point that bob costas has made in his remarks since his initial sunday night football discussion of guns is that there's the cultural issue in terms of people seeing guns as a solution to problems. it often causes more problems. i don't know there's a legislative solution that either party wants to put in place to change people's legal access to guns. i think it's much more how people culturally view guns that will need to shift to prevent tragedy. >> gary, i have a certain respect in americans' belief they have a right to bear arms and defend themselves in their home. what i don't understand is why they would want to have a cultural system that would allow you to arm yourself with ak-47s, thousands of rounds of ammunition, like that guy did in aurora, colorado. i don't get that part of the interpretation of the second amendment. >> i have been watching you rant on this subject for the last
couple weeks, months. you know, i'm in that same camp. >> i rant because i'm shocked. i'm shocked that there's no serious debate, and shocked that bob costas can stick his head out and make sensible comments. he's not after a ban on all guns. he gets slaughtered for it. i don't get it. >> what's happening in this time and period in this country, we're so pushed to the outer edges. i think kristen is right. we're in an add culture. even high-profile assassination feels like something that could be a seven-to-ten-day event. you get into these things where we didn't have in the '50s,' 60s, or '70s. i'm not sure we're there anymore. >> i remember coming to new york when central park was an absolute seething den of drugs and violence. now you can walk through there almost any time of day or night and almost perfect safety. and the reason was they had zero tolerance. they went and came after them.
i don't see the political will of america to do anything about the proliferation of guns. >> the answer is always somewhere in the middle. right now, we're so pulled apart on each edge. >> let's take a break and talk about the fiscal cliff. talking about ridiculous situations. i want to get your latest on that and the latest on the deadly prank apology. it's lots of things. all waking up. ♪ becoming part of the global phenomenon we call the internet of everything. ♪ trees will talk to networks will talk to scientists about climate change. cars will talk to road sensors will talk to stoplights about traffic efficiency. the ambulance will talk to patient records will talk to doctors about saving lives. it's going to be amazing.
if we had any idea that something like this could have been even possible to happen, you know, we couldn't see this happening. it was meant to be a prank call. >> it's nothing more than a tragic turn of events that no one could have predicted. and you know, for the part we played in it, we're obviously -- we're incredibly sorry. >> two australian deejays apologize for the prank call a few days before a nurse killed herself. james, a fascinating take on this. still we don't know, i think, enough of the real hard facts here to determine who or who isn't to blame. certainly a very sincere, i
felt, and a very heartfelt apology. your heart does go out, obviously, first to the family of the woman who took her life. i think secondly to the royal couple who clearly is distressing thing to happen with them and difficult stage of a pregnancy. we have a hard heart not to feel some sympathy for the two deejays and having a bit of fun. >> i think this is an interesting contrast to the discussion we were having about gun control and all asserted from different perspectives that no matter what the degree of shooting tragedies that occur in the united states is not really going to change the policy in the foreseeable future. in this case. it's within of the episodes of popular culture with a sense of things going too far and then tragedies for of course the woman that killed herself and the families and the deejays had no idea what they were doing and moments like this in popular culture, it is possible i think to have some movement the other way of people reflective of what
they're going and who might get hurt in the process. >> it's something everyone is talking about. no question of that. i think people are genuinely confused of what they should be thinking now. what do you think? >> for me, first of all, i have to believe there's something else going on in this woman's life. i can't imagine what kind of personal turmoil you have to be going through to -- she was a wife, she had children. to take your own life, i mean, i have -- it's just immense tragedy and almost nothing more to be said about it but i also agree in the sense that with your concern for the deejays, in that, you know, i can't imagine feeling responsible for that and feeling the weight of that guilt throughout the rest of your life that you are responsible for something like this. >> you are a social media king, blew up on twitter. stayed blowing up ever since and facebook. and people sort of hanging drawing and quartering the deejays and a sense i'm getting
the vilify case an demand of retribution and the pressure heaped on them could lead to a tragedy like we have seen and a hideous irony of what is going on. >> this is a classic lose-lose-lose situation, right? everybody involved losing and when i think of social media, i'm obsessed with context, not just content. i think people have consumed the content of the headline and without all the other context pieces are judging to judgment. that's the world we live in. this is a sad situation. >> it is. let's move on to something else. navy s.e.a.l. member killed in a mission to rescue an american doctor over the weekend. what do you know about that and tell you an the ongoing conflict in afghanistan? >> well, first of all, we don't know how the s.e.a.l. was killed. we know that the s.e.a.l. was injured in the operation and as a result died afterwards. this is the new norm in afghanistan. they know we're leaving.
this was not a particularly sophisticated kidnapping. this was kind of a lower level operation based on what i've been hearing so far and it's still early in this. we'll see more of this. mark my words. this is the new normal in afghanistan and the ngos are taking their lives in their hands and we as american citizens have to say if the ngos out go out in bad territory, i have been there. it's bad. if they go out without security, what do we do about it? s.e.a.l.s in every time? i don't know. >> james, the movie "zero dark 30" about bin laden's capture and death is coming out. my wife said it's gripping, terrifying. people were shouting out at the media, screaming at the torture scenes and then dramatic, bin laden's death. and historically when we look back on this period, notwithstanding the death of bin laden, do you think that the conflict in afghanistan will be seen as anything but a rather
miserable failure in the end? >> i think it will be. actually, it will be interestingly and maybe more positively paired with the war in iraq, being a discretionary war the u.s. undertook on the basis of incorrect information. i think the war in afghanistan it was undertaken for almost noncontroversial reasons within the united states. direct retribution for the attacks of 9/11 and where taliban al qaeda was at the time. i think the debate will be did the u.s. get distracted by afghanistan by the iraq venture and another way to wind it up than the one we have? it's interesting in the presidential campaign concluded there's so little debate about this with so little appetite on either side of the political divide to stay there longer, increase the bet and i think seen as a sadly concluded affair and we got in to it for understandable reasons. >> christin, something else on
the fiscal cliff. a drop in confidence and zero u.s. economic growth with no agreement on this fiscal cliff and indeed a ripple effect in the eurozone and elsewhere. do you think the politicians understand the kind of seriousness of the game that they're playing at the moment? >> i think they do and a good sign is notice in the last day or two, you haven't been hearing as much come out of either members of congress or the white house. president obama right now is i think on the road in detroit. gave a speech today about the economy. but you're seeing a little bit less of the sort of back and fort we saw a weeking a with tim geithner putting out a plan and republicans releasing a letter publicly. i think negotiations of this kind best if they're happening without a lot of the public political posturing. i think that's the direction you have seen things go in the last few days so i'm hoping that's a good sign for things and taken seriously. >> i hope you're right. it is childish, i think. finally for you, gary. this ongoing battle blowing up
between twitter, facebook, instagram, the big guys gunning for each other. what is going on here and how will it play out? >> let's go prop on you. this is the single most important thing and the thing we're attached to and the pictures are enormous. this battle is high stakes. big dollars. instagram is exploding. i think this is a really humongous uber battle and twitter with filters and insstgrams making pictures broken inside of twitter is big stakes to show you what's to come with the google apple wars, amazon in there. those five companies start to really claiming stakes. >> who's going to be top dog in the end do you think? >> that's tough. you know, whoever has the end consumer wins. i think google is underappreciated because they're not winning with google plus. i think apple, i'm started to see how many 15, 16, 17-year-olds are running around
with android phones. i don't make the predictions. i look at the reality and respond to it instead of trying to play a nostradamus card but google is most underappreciated. >> gary, christin, james and brad, thank you all very much, indeed. >> thank you. and we'll be right back. as part of a heart healthy diet. that's true. ...but you still have to go to the gym. ♪ the one and only, cheerios boproductivity up, costs down, thtime to market reduced... those are good things. upstairs, they will see fantasy. not fantasy... logistics. ups came in, analyzed our supply chain, inventory systems... ups? ups. not fantasy? who would have thought? i did. we did, bob. we did. got it.
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