tv Your Money CNN March 10, 2013 12:00pm-1:00pm PDT
commands were being generated here, but the action was being produced across the planet in japan. the other is time. this transmission of brain activity to these devices can be done faster than the normal time that it takes for my own brain to send commands to my muscles and my body to produce a behavior. and eventually, i think that this is going to be the basis of a complete new way of communication. in this lab we can see animals learning to communicate with other animals, just by sending brain signals, that's what we call a brain-to-brain interface. you have people who have speech impairments because of strokes, tumors or lesions on the brain. and this is a prototype of what could be a new way to for the patients to communicate. arthur clarke predicted that it's brain-to-brain communication will happen in 3001, it's 1,000 years from now, i think we're going to do it a little faster. >> what do you dream about?
is there some grand dream for you? besides soccer. >> besides playing for the brazilian national team? yes. i actually dream of being able to keep doing this for the rest of my life. >> it's a lot of fun to be here. it's an exciting time and i think that this field is going to pretty much explode in the coming years. because of its potential to help a lot of people. >> thank god there are people that are working this hard in research and thank god there are people who are so much smarter than i would have imagined. >> i don't think i'll ever be done. it's the biggest life adventure you can have, in my opinion, is to keep seeking this truth that you know deep inside, that you're never going to get, but it's the journey that matters. it never ends. >> whatever mind-boggling advances miguel's journey may bring us in the future, he's already giving thousands hope for a better life in the northeast of brazil and right here at home.
that's what earns him a spot on the next list. i'm dr. sanjay gupta see you next week. more job hires in february and an all-time record high for the dow despite the forced spending cuts that went into effect last week. the economy is doing okay. markets are spectacular. where is the disconnect? i'm ali velshi, this is "your money." what if i told you there isn't that much of a disconnect. that maybe the economy feels worse than it actually is. the u.s. added 236,000 net new jobs in february. that's up from 119,000 in january. the unemployment rate dropped from 7.9, to 7.7%. that's keeping with a now three-year trend of job growth in the private sector. still far short of where we need to be, though. if president obama is going to keep his campaign promise to
create 12 million jobs over four years. to fulfill the president's promise, we need to see an average of at least 250,000 jobs created every month for 48 months in a row. that will get us to 12 million by the end of his second term in office. one month in and the president is only 14,000 jobs short of where we would need to be right now. i was skeptical when both mitt romney and president obama said it could be done. so skeptical that i wagered that it wasn't likely. not with the economic growth that we've got in the united states. before the election i promised i would wear a dress if 12 million jobs are created over the next four years under any president. whether or not i plan to honor that pledge, i am constantly reminded of it. as crazy as this sounds, i want to lose my bet. not that i want to wear a dress, i want a lot of jobs to be created. now none of this seems to matter to investors right now. dow broke a record high last week. highlighting that disconnect that some of you think between the wider economy, how you feel, and corporate america. there was a time when the stock rally went hand in hand with
economic prosperity. now american companies make their money abroad or make it by eliminating inefficiencies and increasing productivity with fewer workers and there's also the fed. low-interest rates and low inflation have conspired to make the stock market the only liquid investment game in town and that's pushing the dow to record highs. steven moore is a senior economics writer at "the wall street journal." stephen, you are a deficit hawk, you must be ecstatic by the forced spending cuts in washington a week after the sequester, the sky hasn't fallen, despite the president's warnings, the dow is flying high. we've got job creation continuing. you think we're on the right track, despite having a president that many consider anti-business? >> not quite as jubilant as you are, ali. but i think it was a very positive jobs report new york city question about it. these are the kinds of job numbers that we need as you quite correctly said for the next three or four years. and that we should expect given that we're in a recovery. now, i do think that the
sequester has really been a nonevent with respect to the financial markets. businesses are plowing ahead. and i think a lot of the dire forecasts that cutting government spending was going to hurt the economy, at least look, it just started, we've only had it for a week or two. but i was one of the people who said look, this might actually be a positive thing for the economy in terms of giving business some assurance that at least washington will start cutting somewhere. >> let's look at, let's look behind the numbers on the jobs report. christine romans is the host of "your bottom line." >> i often say there'sed good, the bad, the ugly in the jobs numbers, this time let's say it's the great, the good, and the ugly. let's look at the great first. when you look within the private sector hiring is 36 months in a row of private sector job creation. 36 months. that's what we want to see. companies, confident and in deploying their assets by hiring people. where are they hiring? business services, up 73,000, construction, ali at 48,000, a sign of strength in the housing
market there were some construction jobs earlier in maybe last year, probably because of hurricane sandy rebuilding. now you're seeing help from construction because of housing and health care. 32,000 jobs in health care. we've seen that again and again and again. there are two economies in america. one of them is health. the health care economy and the other economy is the one the rest of us live in. the ugly. 133,000 people dropped out of the labor market. they couldn't, there wasn't a place for them. they simply stopped looking. you look at the labor force participation rate this is something that's a number that's still so troubling. 63.5%, the lowest since july 2012. to get worse than that, you go the to go back to september of 1981. you want to see the number getting bigger as more people come back in and feel like the economy getting better and there's a place for them in the economy. >> let me bring in a chief economist for mesereau financial. christine laid out the things we know are the ugly. all i've been asked all week with the market highs, why is
there the disconnect? how is it we're breaking records on stock markets, not just the dow, the s&p 500, you would have made more money over the last five years in the s&p 500 and the broader market as well. explain this to me. why the disconnect? >> well, the disconnect, i think you laid it out, one, corporations are making money by cutting costs and increasing productivity and they've reduced their interest expense, they've deheaviered amazingly with the lower interest rates the federal reserve has provided ands lower interest rates that the federal reserve has provided has meant to boost asset prices, one place you've seen it is in the stock market. we have a battle going on between easy monetary policy trying to offset fiscal drag. so far it's about where you sort of see two steps forward, one step back. they're winning, but not winning big in terms of that. and in terms of on the other side of it, the sequester that mike talked about earlier. i think he talked about earlier. i think it's important to point out we haven't seen the effects of that yet. the first effects would be
furloughs and income, later jobs. >> thank you for being with us. coming up, why is america's debt ballooning? if you say ineffective politicians, wasteful government programs and moochers are the problem, my next guest says you're wrong. i'm going to bust some budget myths. plus, calling all compromisers, i've been casting a wide net. looking for anyone willing to reach across party lines to solve our economic problems, could rudy giuliani be the answer? >> i did try it once, it didn't work. >> that's history. what's the future? >> i was a little too moderate on social issues. >> you haven't changed on that front? >> i haven't changed at all, if anything i probably have become even somewhat more moderate? >> if the republican party stands a chance to win -- >> you want to know what i think? we do want to know what he thinks. don't miss my eye-opening interview with rudy giuliani.
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the dow is hitting new highs, some things are looking good, but we've got a serious fiscal problem in the country. we're one week into the so-called sequester, the forced spending cuts because your elected leaders couldn't come up with a better way. paul ryan will release his budget. sure to create a new whirlwind of controversy over taxing and spending, let's talk about it. joining me now is david lion hart, the washington, d.c. bureau chief for "the new york times" and author of the must-read great new book called "here's the deal." in your book you argue that we have come to believe a story about the deficit that simply isn't true. in fact you write, looming deficits seem to stem from weak-willed politicians, wasteful government programs that don't benefit us and tax
avoidance. >> stem from fact that most americans are scheduled to receive far more in medicare benefits than they have paid in medicare taxes. you cite a shocking stat to back it up. a couple earning average wages who retired in 2010 paid $88,000 into medicare. including the employer portion by the way that they didn't pay. that couple will receive benefits worth $387,000. david, medicare is the biggest driver of our debt how do we fix it? should it be voucherized ala paul ryan? what's the solution? >> that includes premium, it includes inflation, it includes all the things that a good calculation would include. and so basically the problem is to some extent is we're all takers, right? you hear this whole notion of makers and takers, the reason we have a deficit is on average we're takers, we're getting more from medicare than we're paying in. while the deficit in the medium term seems to be under control
because of the austerity we've had in the long run, it's a problem. the way to solve it has to be some combination of tax increases on us or benefit cuts to us. it's not something you can do just by affecting the other guy. >> one of the criticisms that the media get, it's actually a criticism i get a lot. people say whether it's medicare or social security, they are entitled to the money. they're called entitlements because they paid for it with social security they're more right than they are with medicare? >> that's correct. with social security there is a long-term problem with social security. in part because we're going to have many more retirees in 25 years than we have today. particularly relative to the number of workers. with medicare it's not true that you've paid for your medicare benefits. if someone works their whole life and dies at the age of 67, that person has more than paid for their medicare benefits, but the average person does not. at base that is why we have a deficit. i think it's hard for people to get their minds around. that's part of the reason why the deficit is so hard to solve. if any politician comes out with
some sort of proposal to deal with it, it's easy for the other side to attack them. because people have these views of the deficit that don't completely conform with the actual deficit. >> is it fair to say that we can reform these things by changing some of the benefit. sure it will hurt people a little bit. but we can find a way to not benefit those who don't need the benefit? >> that's the second half of this. i think that's's that's right and it's important. we have a serious long-term deficit problem. but it's not like it's so big that solving it requires completely ripping up the social contract. some combination of relatively modest tax increases and/or relatively modest but still significant changes to the way the health care system works could do it. it's worth remembering we spend twice as much per person on health care as any other country in the world. there's got to be some waste in there. while we have in some ways the best health care system in the world. in many ways we don't. there have got to be ways to do it that don't completely ruin
our current health care system. >> we can talk for a lot longer. the book is very twrg, david lionhart is the author of "here's the deal." back in 2009 i wrote a book called give me my money back in there i talked about the stock market. i said despite what's going on in the stock market, remember, january 2009, the market was almost at lowest it reached. i said i'm sticking to my investment plan, despite the current turbulence i haven't changed it one bit. now the market will recover and my investments will grow. if you've been listening to me yell buy for the past five years, you are rich and don't need to ignore me. and rudy giuliani says the u.s. government is spending too much of your money on the wrong things, i'll tell you where he wants to put it instead. [ loud party sounds ]
were waiting on the sidelines are getting back into the market. the bad news? a lot of you have been hiding out for the past few years as the stock market basically doubled. $150 billion a year came out of the stocks for the past three years. i know a number of you see these highs in the market, you worry it's a kicking time bomb. i don't like to make too much of a deal about stock market records, you can't ignore the trend, and the trend is strong. why? low interest rates for starters, courtesy of the fed mean you can't make much money in the bank or in bond funds. stock market is the only liquid investment game in town. and the price of a stock is a factor of how much a company is expected to earn because you as a shareholder are entitled to a piece of that profit. and right now, stocks are priced lower in relation to their expected earnings than they were the last time we hit a market high in october of 2007. to be sure, the rally will end one day, they always do. a change in the feds' lower interest policy or the the fed decides to stop pumping tens of billions of dollars into the
economy every month could precipitate that. i want to bring in matt mccall, the president of penn fnlt group. if you're one of those people who wants to get into the market, which people are tempted to do when we get to new highs, how would you do it? >> i think you buy right into the market. honestly, just get into the overall s&p 500. there's a lot of etfs and a lot of funds out there to do it. a lot of investors right now see individual stocks hitting highs, they're going to try to pick those individual stocks. as you just showed, the entire stock market more than doubled from the bottom. you didn't have to pick stocks, you could have just been in the u.s. market and rode this wave. >> robert luna is the chief investment officer of sure-vest capital management. he's a gummy bear, not a hard-line bear. nobody wants to buy stocks when they're down and out. everybody wants to get in when the records are being set. you think now is not the time to buy into the broader market that matt just described. >> like you said i'm not an extreme bear. i think we've come a little too far, a little too fast, let's
not forget what happened this year at this time. the last year the s&p was up 123%, only to correct 13 in the second quarter. i've not voting you sell everything in your entire portfolio right now. what i am advocating you do is you do ha we're doing for our clients right now. it's take a break while the pandemonium is breaking loose, take a look at what you hold in your portfolio right now. not necessarily, you have etfs, stocks, bonds, what's the dollar value of your portfolio today. and ask yourself one simple question. if i had that money to invest today, would i place it exactly the same way i'm allocating today, if the answer is no, those are the areas you want to sell in your portfolio. at the end of the day there are some areas technically and fundamentally that are priced way too high right now. >> let's take a look at what some things are that both of you like and don't like. matt, you're liking something called the wisdom tree small cap dividend etf, exchange-traded
funds, you buy and sell them like stocks. >> i like it because typically when a market is strong, i believe it will be strong for the next year, wur going into the fifth year of the bull market that happens only five times in the past. the five times it's done that, up 20%. and on top of that you're getting a dividend of 3.4%. almost double what you're getting in ten-year with the etf, i like the exposure to small caps and the income coming in. >> and the i-shares u.s. oil equipment and services because we've got the energy boom going on. >> yes and this is one sector that has lagged the market. as you can see in the chart, it's pulled back as the market is hitting highs. i think it's a great valuation right now. we're going continue to expand to drill onshore, deep offshore. these are companies that will benefit from that. >> robert you like oil as well. you like conoco phillips, lincoln national and chevron and morgan stanley as well? >> and we like oil simply for the fact that it's undervalued right now. it's one of the cheapest s&p sectors. when you look at a stock like
conoco phillips, that's yielding about 4.5%. they're going to be expanding production over the next five years, they actually have the capability to increase that dividend. we think pretty substantially over the next five years. you know, the financials have done pretty well as of late. but if you look back to where they were at their highs when the s&p was back at their highs in 2007, they're still down about 50%. and they've got everything in their corner right now. interest rates are starting to rise which will help them. property values are stabilizing. and if you look at a case like the lincoln national, variable annuities, they're one of the only major players left in that area. so as you see the market stabilizing, that's go to tend to benefit those companies as well. >> great advice for you guys who don't share the same view of the market, you reflect our viewership. thank you for that matt mccall president of the penn financial group and robert luna joining us from phoenix. you want a great return? check out what your tax dollars could bring you. >> this kind of spending
stimulates the economy for real. >> i'll tell you what kind of spending he's talking about, i'll go one-on-one with rudy giuliani and then actress darryl hannah will make her case on why the controversial keystone pipeline will be a disaster. transit fares! as in the 37 billion transit fares we help collect each year. no? oh, right. you're thinking of the 1.6 million daily customer care interactions xerox handles. or the 900 million health insurance claims we process. so, it's no surprise to you that companies depend on today's xerox for services that simplify how work gets done. which is...pretty much what we've always stood for. with xerox, you're ready for real business. which is...pretty much what we've always stood for. it's not what you think. it's a phoenix with 4 wheels. it's a hawk with night vision goggles. it's marching to the beat of a different drum. and where beauty
meets brains. it's big ideas with smaller footprints. and knowing there's always more in the world to see. it's the all-new lincoln mkz. >> announcer: did you know there are secret black market websites around the world that sell stolen identities? >> 30-year-old american man, excellent credit rating. >> announcer: lifelock monitors thousands of these sites 24 hours a day. and if we discover any of our members' data for sale, lifelock is there with the most comprehensive identity theft protection available. [♪...] [squealing, crash] call 1-800-lifelock or go to lifelock.com today. two years ago, the people of bp made a commitment to the gulf. and every day since, we've worked hard to keep it. bp has paid over twenty-three billion dollars to help people and businesses who were affected, and to cover cleanup costs.
today, the beaches and gulf are open for everyone to enjoy -- and many areas are reporting their best tourism seasons in years. we've shared what we've learned with governments and across the industry so we can all produce energy more safely. i want you to know, there's another commitment bp takes just as seriously: our commitment to america. bp supports nearly two-hundred-fifty thousand jobs in communities across the country. we hired three thousand people just last year. bp invests more in america than in any other country. in fact, over the last five years, no other energy company has invested more in the us than bp. we're working to fuel america for generations to come. today, our commitment to the gulf, and to america, has never been stronger. and his new boss told him two things -- cook what you love, and save your money. joe doesn't know it yet, but he'll work his way up from busser to waiter to chef before opening a restaurant specializing in fish and game from the great northwest.
he'll start investing early, he'll find some good people to help guide him, and he'll set money aside from his first day of work to his last, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. you've heard me say this before, u.s. infrastructure is in a sorry state. the american society of civil engineers gives america a big fat d grade, but the u.s. isn't planning to fix the problem. the american society of civil engineers estimates that the u.s. will need $2.75 trillion by 2020 to bring infrastructure into a state of good repair. but it predicts the u.s. will spend less than two-thirds of that, leaving a $1 trillion funding gap. we know that investment in infrastructure has long-term benefits. by investing $1 trillion in infrastructure, the u.s. saves more than that in costs to businesses alone. not to mention massive costs
savings to households, a $3 trillion bump to gdp. and an additional 3.5 million jobs created. america may not be make the investment, but other countries are, china spends 9% of economic output on infrastructure. europe spends 5%, the u.s. spends less than half of that, 2.4%. that's changed over the years, we used to spend more. former new york city mayor, rudy giuliani, was once a republican presidential contender. today he's a republican not opposed to spending as long as he sees a return on that investment. >> when you build a school, when you fix a railroad, when you fix a pipeline, when you build electrical or water connections, that benefits people for 30 years. 40 years, 50 years, 100 years. >> your grandchildren might be getting a bill. >> but they should pay for it. >> the federal government, bottom line is everybody is looking for ways to cut. why not something for instance like a infrastructure bank.
where the government puts something in -- >> it would make a lot of sense. >> and the private sector gets to lead this. >> i would have no problem with financing a lot of that. in fact you can spread the cost out over 20, 30, 40 years. plus the benefit is going to be spread out over 20, 30, 40 years. >> what about the criticism that happens at the state level, the criticism that can happen at the federal level. that the national interest in infrastructure will play second place to getting money for districts in my state or getting money for particular places. >> that's why it needs protection. mayor koch, one of his great accomplishments was because of the fiscal crisis in new york money was taken out of infrastructure. he to live with that for two or three years, they almost had no capital budget. the mayor got very concerned, so he began a capital expenditure campaign. going to be 20 years. you can't do it all at once, he put aside what they could afford, three billion at first, it got to four. he handed it over to dinkins, he expanded it. he handed it over to me, i expanded it.
i gave it to bloomberg, he expanded it. the city is in much better shape as a result of it. we spend $5 billion to $6 billion a year on fixing our infrastructure and we finance that. because it's going to benefit the future. so two republican mayors and two democratic mayors able to agree with this. this isn't liberal -- i consider myself a political fiscal conservative. that kind of spending is very, very tight. it's very important. it gives long-term benefit. and if the president had done this with a stimulus program -- instead of the give-away it became, this economy would be humming right now. >> he tried to do it with an infrastructure bank in the jobs bill. >> he lost credibility with the shovel-ready projects. we have all of these shovel-ready projects. now it came time to find the shovels and there were none. the president did the same thing, unfortunately recently with the sequester. >> we've got a lot of shovel-ready projects. i'm going to let that go for a second. in a political climate like ours, it's unattractive to push this kind of agenda. >> there are things that are
more politically attractive. this is more -- for the good government types. people who look at government budgets and really understand it. this is where leadership comes in. this is why we need leaders. >> with what's going on in the political situation right now, i think we're going to be looking for fiscal conservatives and leaders. to compete particularly for the republican party. you thought about that? you thought about going back -- >> i did try it once, it didn't work. >> that was history, what's the future. >> i was a little too moderate on social issues. >> you haven't changed on that front. >> i haven't changed at all, if anything, i have become even more moderate. >> isn't that likely, if the republican party stands a chance to win -- >> you want to know what i think? >> yes. >> i think a republican candidate, not necessarily me, a fiscal conservative, a foreign policy conservative, but is a social not even progressive, a social moderate, open to, open to choice, open to gay rights, gay marriage, maybe yes, maybe no, but certainly civil unions
and protection against discrimination, i think a candidate like that is almost unbeatable. >> but c pac is not embracing that sort of thing. >> you can't get nominated. >> you can't nominate a candidate like that. >> democratic party used to have this problem back in the '80s, when the new democratic coalition emerged. al gore, bill clinton. the best example of that. >> they said to those who were -- you're out there. can you form your own party. >> give us a guy that can save something like we're going to end welfare as we know it. an old-line liberal could not have gotten nominated. now bill clinton says let's end welfare as we know it. >> do you think republicans can do that? >> that happens when people start to get desperate. because -- they see themselves with no influence on policy for years. i don't know if we're quite there yet. but we may be there. >> would you be open to that call? >> i don't know if i would be. but i would be helpful in trying to find somebody like that. >> interesting discussion with rudy giuliani. coming up, i'm going to take you to my home country of canada and show you what the real fight
over the keystone pipeline is all about. this is it -- we are literally walking on black gold. this is what we came here to see. this is oil sand. it's sand, that's encased in water, and oil. in fact, this is about ten% crude oil. >> darryl hannah is going to join me next to explain why environmentalists are drawing a line in the tar sands when it comes to building the keystone pipeline. as certified recovery specialists at lifelock, we're dedicated to getting you back on track
it would move more than 800,000 barrels of oil per day from canada's oil sands to the u.s. heartland and beyond to global markets via the gulf of mexico. proponents say the pipeline expansion would bring a crucial energy sois, oil, to the u.s. from a friendly neighbor next door, canada and reduce america's dependence on imports from other volatile regions in the world. environmental groups oppose the pipeline because the landscape in canada's alberta province is already devastated from oil sand mining there and they say it will be more so with the keystone xl expansion. the state department report downplays those claims, which effectively clears the way for the pipeline to move forward. now, this is what we are talking about. black, sticky sand. i soaked, it's soaked in oil. i picked this up almost five years ago when i traveled to alberta to see the oil sands for myself. >> one-third of the world's known oil deposits are right
here. in the dirt. so that's where we headed on our energy hunt, from new york to fort mcmurray, alberta. this is it -- we are literally walking on black gold. this is what we came here to see. this is oil sand. it's sand that's encased in water and oil. in fact, this is about 10% crude oil. large quantity of oil embedded in sand only occur in two places in the world -- venezuela and canada. >> giant shovels scoop up 100 tons of oil-laden dirt at a time. hundreds of trucks move across the landscape all day and night every single day. >> you need a lot of earth to make oil it takes about two tons of oil sands to make one barrel of oil. now this big hauler holds 400 tons of oil sands, so once that's all filled up, and made into oil, you'll have about 200
barrels of oil. that's right, two tons of oil sand makes one barrel of oil. but at today's oil prices, it's wildly profitable. that's why major players like exxonmobil, shell, chevron and others squeeze one and a half million barrels of oil out this land every day and send most of it to the u.s. it's costlier than a simple land well because the tar-like oil has to be separated from the sand. that uses lots of natural gas and warm water. the result is a heavy, molasses-like oil which has to be upgraded into a loiter, high-quality form of crude that can then be easily refined into gasoline, home heating oil and other petroleum products. canada produces much more oil than it needs, so the excess oil is sold and sent by pipeline to its best customer, the united states. joining me now to discuss the negative side of the oil sands and the keystone xl pipeline is
van jones, he was president obama's green jobs czar in his first term in office. he's now a cnn contributor. joining us from los angeles is actress darryl hannah. you may know her from her roles in movies like "splash" and "kill bill." she's a very public activist for environmental causes, now the executive producer of a new documentary movie coming out this weekend called "green lying bastards." >> uncover the conspiracies behind the campaigns. >> this is what i want it to look like. >> and the greedy, lying pastnds behind it all. >> could it be that man maid global warming is the graethest hoax ever perpetrated on the american people? >> the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the american people? >> corporations who have us where we are, who have us over a barrel, would love to keep it that way. >> darryl hannah, welcome to the show there are two issues with the keystone xl pipeline that
the environmental community raises. one is what the expanded pipeline network could mean for increased oil sand mining in canada. which arguably devastates the environment there and releases more carbon emissions than normal drilled oil. but number two, the safety concerns of the pipeline itself in the united states. >> america has pipelines criss-crossing the country, sending oil and gas from one place to the another. there's already a network that sends oil from the oil sands into america. they're not fool proof. why so much about pipelines now, we have a pipelines already. >> this is not conventional crude. you saw it for yourself. this is called bitumen. it is a much more corrosive heavy substance that needs to be heated to 150 degrees to get it to move. they need to inject it with a lot of chemicals to get it to move through the pipe that makes it a much more corrosive substance that will greatly endanger our fossil,
nonreplenishing aquifers which we cannot risk when we have unprecedented droughts and wildfires and crop losses in the breadbasket of our country. the owigalala aquifer serves as drinking water and it will go through further aquifers along the way. there are so many issues, these aren't the only two issues this is a pipeline that's going through america, not to america. we're already processing some of that oil in oklahoma like you said. but the reason they want to get it to the gulf is so they can get it as you said to the global market. and they can't get to to the global market the easiest way, through their country, through to the pacific through the enbridge line because their citizens have stopped it. >> let me show my viewers what we're talking about here. this is the oil sands over here. and when you make it into the bitumen. i showed you the sticky substance, it becomes this. once it's refined from there to here, it becomes something like
oil and that becomes refined into gasoline or home heating oil. van jones, you have referred to the administration's approval of this, if it comes, as jabbing a dirty needle of a pipeline into america, you've likened this to. >> this is one of the most remarkable stories i think that has not been covered. i'm so glad you're covering this. our president, my beloved president, has said he wants to be this climate champion, beautiful speech he gave at the inauguration it brought tears to my eyes, people all around the world. what happens? we say we're going to do this pipeline this pipeline is a very, very interesting thing. first of all, it's a foreign corporation, that's saying it's going to take land from american farmers, when you point to that bitumen that is the problem for america's farmland. that is not oil. that is, that is a -- >> put some meat on the bones here.
you have an example. >> sure, kalamazoo, michigan there was a pipeline trying to move that stuff, that is pipe-eating goo, that is not oil. and that pipeline cracked and when that stuff hit the water, nobody knew what to do with it. so now we spend almost $1 billion, spent four years and the kalamazoo river may never come back. that's from one leak. this is not oil. this is a pipe-eating, planet-cooking, water-fouling goo that nobody knows what to do with and we're going to shoot it across america's farmland and america's waterways, why? so that a foreign corporation who made no propgs to sell any of it to us, can get it to the global market, mainly china. as a democrat i'm begging for somebody to stop this crazy thing. >> darryl hannah, let me ask you something. we use a lot of oil in the world. there are many people that would dpree with you, it would be great if we use less. we've had a lot of problems with using alternatives. the argument is that that oil
going to get used by somebody in the world. >> part of the part of the problem is that one of the issues behind why we don't use enough of that, is because canada has been sending their diplomats all over the world to fight climate legislation, they've lobbied the european union to fight climate legislation. and they want to increase projects like the tar sands, because they know if they can expand the tar sands to the size of the state of florida, that they have billions of dollars to make. but this pipeline is not in our national interest, it doesn't have any benefit to the american people. we will assume all the risk and they will reap all the benefit by making billions of dollars. this fuel is not destined for us. they're just using us, they're using us and it's like, it just doesn't make any sense. >> you've set it up very nicely, because i have a canadian diplomat going to be joining us on the show momentarily. the canadian ambassador to the united states.
>> ask him about why they keep sending their diplomats everywhere to battle the climate change legislation. >> i will have that discussion. >> thank you for teasing my next segment. executive producer of "greedy lying bastards" which opens this weekend and van jones, a cnn contributor and former green jobs adviser to president obama. think of the jobs, the energy independence and greenhouse gas gases, we'll talk about the other side of the controversial keystone pipeline debate when we come back with a canadian diplomat. during red los lobsterfest. with the year's largest selection of mouth-watering lobster entrees. like our delicious lobster lover's dream, featuring two kinds of lobster tails. or our savory, new grilled maine lobster and lobster tacos. my favorite entree is the lobster lover's dream. what's yours? come celebrate lobsterfest and sea food differently. [ male announcer ] visit redlobster.com now for an exclusive $10 coupon on two lobsterfest entrees.
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let's continue our conversation about the keystone xl pipeline, the controversy, ambassador gary duer, the canadian ambassador to the united states joins me now. darryl hannah still with us from los angeles. mr. ambassador, let's start with you, a lot of material in the last one, including the fact that canadian ambassadors are going around the world to to get
sort of sell everybody on this idea. >> well, the canadian ambassador was in copenhagen, we obviously joined with president obama, committing to the reductions, the greenhouse gas reductions, the same ones, we were in copenhagen talking about how we could reduce greenhouse gas by having light vehicle energy efficiency standards which we've implemented. >> so issue is the production of oil, if you drill the hole in texas for oil, it doesn't, the actual drilling of the oil doesn't produce greenhouse gases, but the argument is that the production of this oil sand, the way to get the oil out of, out of the nugget, out of the sand, uses greenhouse gas because you've got to use natural gas and warm water. more greenhouse gas produced in the production of the oil, not in the use of it. >> the use will depend on demand. that's why light vehicle standards, we both agreed to. yes, the ambassador was fighting
for that i fought for it before i was an it has been implemented. but the canadian oil, of course, it's being reduced in its greenhouse gases every year, as you know. >> because of what? technology? >> well, technology, energy efficiency and water production is way below ethanol now. also, if you look at it, the displacement of venezuelan oil by canadian oil and oil from north dakota and montana, which is never mentioned, balkan oil goes on this pipeline from the united states, canadian oil, and this oil has less greenhouse gases presently than the venezuelan crude it's going to displace. and it has less ghgs -- >> greenhouse gases. >> -- than some of the californian oils. >> this is the oil sands in here. >> yes. >> this here is the -- what is it called?
dil bit, diluted bitumen. that's the stuff that goes through the pipelines, the stuff van jones called pipe-eating goo that tore through the pipe in kalamazoo, michigan. i spoke to the pipeline company. he said this is no more corrosive than regular oil. >> well, the bottom line is the state department again last week came out and evaluated all these allegations. and i guess the old saying -- i guess you're entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts. and in the state department report written by scientists, not by a ceo of a company, not by an ambassador, it basically said it will have no difference because the oil is going to be harvested in canada. it will make no difference to the greenhouse gases. and in fact, if it's stopped, the pipeline is stopped, the oil will come down to the united states or go to market on trains, which has 8% higher greenhouse gases than the pipeline. so actually, the unintended consequence of blocking the
pipeline with all the noble intentions on climate change, because we agree that we all have to take action on climate change. higher emissions. >> darryl hannah, the canadian ambassador says he shares the view on climate change and there will be more greenhouse gases if you don't use this oil. >> that's just ridiculous. first of all, the state department report has been unilaterally written off as inaccurate and incomplete. it was also written by someone who has close ties with trans-canada. and so it's being looked into. even -- you're not even taking into the calculations the fact that in order to create these vast toxic lethal strip mines, the one which exists now up in alberta is the size of the city of chicago, and they plan to expand to the size of florida. it has to decimate, completely
strip away an entire boreal forest. that has to be calculated in terms of carbon emissions as well. >> let's answer that. >> excuse me, let me finish. >> okay. i want to get an answer to that, the boreal forest. let the ambassador -- >> somebody set aside half the boreal forest in my own province of manitoba, we set aside the size of france. the holier than thou material that we're getting is quite interesting. i would just say to people that are opponents of the pipeline, you can listen to darryl hannah or you can listen to a professional scientist that produced the report by the united states state department that was released last week. i, as a citizen, will choose -- >> that was co-written with a trans-canada associate. >> yeah, yeah. you can listen to scientists, or you can listen to a celebrity. >> let's talk about -- let's talk about science. you can try to diminish me, but -- >> no, no, i'm not. >> -- from reports that i've
read and studies, but if you want to listen to science, why don't you listen to the science of, say, the pentagon or the world bank or the last citibank report? the world bank report that came out about the climate crisis said that if we continue using fossil fuels, and especially these carbon-intensive fossil fuels like tar sands, we are looking at total systems collapse, and they recommended, the world bank, recommended themselves that we end our use of fossil fuels as quickly as possible. now, the good news is, if solar energy continues to grow and expand the way that it has the last five years for the next five years here in the united states, we will be getting 50% of our energy from solar. your oil that you're trying to get out to the marketplace, because right now, you don't have access because you can't get it to your coastline through enbridge. you want to use it because you can pay off politicians the money. >> let's let him respond to that. >> excuse me, the whole issue -- we agree. we've signed on to the copenhagen agreement along with the president. we are reducing per capita
demand on oil in both canada and united states. i think a lot of environmentalists don't give the president enough credit for the most radical action on reducing oil usage in the united states through the action he took with light vehicles and heavy vehicles. we also know, and we are supporting renewable energy. canada has 63% of its electricity produced by renewable energy. so i'm glad you're moving ahead on some of these areas in the united states. but the bottom line is, you can't use solar energy to drive a car or a truck right now compared to the oil that's necessary for that kind of mobility and the electricity in the hybrid cars. >> what you are getting, my viewers, is a taste of the controversy over these oil sands. guess what? we are not going to solve it on this show, but we appreciate the passionate discussion here. i have been there several times. i'm going to keep on going and reporting all of the facts to you. thank you for being here for
this discussion. gary doer is canadian ambassador to the united states. darryl hannah is the executive producer of "greedy lying bastards" which opens up this weekend. this conversation, obviously, doesn't end here. i invite you both back to continue it. don't go anywhere. you're watching "your money." to provide companies with services... like helping hr departments manage benefits and pensions for over 11 million employees. reducing document costs by up to 30%... and processing $421 billion dollars in accounts payables each year. helping thousands of companies simplify how work gets done. how's that for an encore? with xerox, you're ready for real business. how's that for an encore? we replaced people with a machine.r, what? customers didn't like it. so why do banks do it? hello? hello?!
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