tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN March 19, 2013 1:00am-2:00am PDT
live. what's going through your mind, sister mary ann. >> the thing that struck me so much when he went to that sick man. the man couldn't come to him, so he went to him. i think that's the attitude we're going to see in this papacy. he will go to his people when they can't come to him. that's very touching. >> and, john allen, you're watching right along with us. these are some extraordinary events we're seeing. >> they are absolutely remarkable. you know, i can tell you, john and zoraida, based on the reporting i've been doing this week, i think pope francis has charmed the entire world except for one small constituency which are his security patrol who are quite frankly at witt's end what he's going to do next and how to keep him safe. obviously this is a pope who is determined to be as close to his people as possible, not to be walled off from them, and at a pastoral level, at a human
level, that's a remarkably endearing quality, but for the people who are charged with his security, it also has got their blood pressure up. i think we're seeing additional indications this morning of how he's going to be somebody that they're going to have to sort of figure out a new script to make sure he can be as close to people as possible but at the same time not be putting himself in harm's way. >> john, i want to stay with you for a second here and talk about some of the dignitaries that will be attending today. we heard a spokesman from the vatican say that they don't issue invitations, that folks actually reach out to the vatican to say i want to be present. can we talk about some of the dignitaries that have chosen to be there today? >> sure. well, the holy sea, which is a diplomatic name for the people, it has bilateral relations with more than 170 countries.
they don't issue formal invitations, simply through diplomatic channels they make people aware and whoever wants to come can come. there is something on the order of 131, 132 countries. the united nations only recognizes 193. that means more than 2/3 of the countries on earth are going to have official delegations here today. this includes 6 sovereigns, i think 31 heads of state, three crowned princes and 11 heads of government. the united states delegation led by vice president joseph biden has gotten here this morning and is already seated. it is a remarkable representation of sort of civic establishment for political leaders of all the leaders on earth which is a reminder, john and zoraida, that the pope is a spiritual guide but he is also an enormously important player
in global events. remember the role john paul ii made and the people's movement in the philippines. the papacy is an enormously relevant force on a global stage well outside of the catholic church. the representation you're seeing this morning, the political leaders from all over the map is a political moment. a second child he kissed and a third. clearly live enjoying his moment. giant smiles on his face as he goes around the square. i want to bring you in for a second here because -- hang on one second, monseigneur. i want to talk to ben wedeman. john allen saying the one group in the entire world not charmed by pope francis might not be his security detail. ben?
we'll try to reach ben wedeman now. >> no, no, here i am. the pope is coming back for his second turn here. obviously security is a problem with this pope who's been described as unpredictable. as you can see, he's not within the glass enclosed normally where he would be on this popemobile. i'm going to step out of the way so you can see him. there he is, quite close. the the security detail obviously having a very hard time. in fact, yesterday one of the italian newspapers quoted a member of pope francis's security detail saying if he carries on with this unpredictable behavior, he's going to drive us all crazy. obviously very difficult job dealing with a pope who seems to want to do what he wants to do
and stepping away from protocol and predictability. >> the crowds are loving it and all the access. the fact that he's getting out of the pope mobile. he's sharing hand shakes, kissing babies. we'd like to go back now to father kevin irwin. monseigneur, are you -- oh, he's not available for us at this moment. ben, let's stay with you here for a minute. those clouds look like they are overflowing. what's the vantage point from where you are? >> definitely st. peter's square is quite full. now it doesn't -- it's not as full as it was when the pope was announced as the pope on whenever that was, wednesday evening, but quite full. lots of security. there's sort of every branch of the italian police represented here. people are very excited. i was speaking to an italian woman who said that with this pope we don't know what he's
going to do, but we appreciate everything he is doing at the moment. there does seem to be a strong desire among many people to see a pope who's really connecting with the people, who comes out and does this sort of unpredictable thing. >> we're joined here in studio by father edward beck. we've been talking about the different aspects of history being made today. this is the mechanical part of history with pope francis being closer to his flock than any time before in the history. it's also historic in terms of who's invited. bartholomew i, the leader of the orthodox church. this is not small. >> holiness bartholomew i. c con stand at this nopele split
from rome and here we will have bartholomew i which is a tribute to the acumenism. we know he is very acumenical. he'll be reaching out to jews, christians. they've spoken out favorably about pope francis and his time. there was a bombing when he was archbishop in buenos aires. >> i think pope francis will want to follow in that tradition and perhaps even take it further. >> can we bring in father kevin irwin now. monseigneur -- he's still not available to us. i'm terribly sorry about that. >> where did he go? >> we're getting him set up. >> in the crowd. >> so that he can talk a little
bit about the significance of 1,000 years, right, in the making for this moment. now was this an invitation or did he just decide to come? did he make himself available? >> again, the official word from the vatican press offices that there were no invitations. everyone was invited. however, i can't imagine that with religious dignitaries there wasn't some extension made to invite them to be at this mass. so i don't know whether he got a personal invitation or not or maybe he said i'm taking you at your word, all are invited, and i'm coming. >> we're talking about the guest list here ranging from everyone from vice president joe biden to bartholomew i, also some of the controversial guests including robin mugabi. >> yeah, that's right. this is a crowd in which dictators and democrats will rub shoulders. the vatican's line on this was y'all come. anybody who wants to be here is welcome. with regard to patriarch
bartholomew, we should say when pope benedict celebrated a mass marking the anniversary of the second vatican in the fall, both pay the try a bartholomew and the bishop of canter berry were with him. interestingly, the new archbishop of canterberry is going to be inaugurated on thursday, two days hence. it's the first times that the leaders of two such historically christian confessions have sort of taken office at roughly the same time. certainly this drive to sort of put-back together the divided christian family is so important to john paul ii and benedict xvi. that will be a hallmark of the papacy. >> all wounds around the world are healed though, the patriarch of the russian orthodox church
is not coming. he is sending a representative. he made clear that he would not be attending. >> yes, that's right. obviously there's still some work to do in terms of putting this divided christian family back together. if you compare the state of relations between the christian churches today to where they were 50 years ago, the difference is night and day. now obviously wounds that father edward was saying that date back 1,000 years aren't going to be repaired but 50 years ago would be unthinkable. the first among equals would actually come to the inauguration of a bishop of rome, that would have been matter and anti-matter mixing together. today it seems the most normal thing in the world. that's a reflection of the massive progress that's been
made regardless of how much work remains to be done. >> john, it does appear as if the pope has now left saint pet peter's square. he is off the popemobile. what is left in this morning's ceremony? >> what's happening now, john, is the pope is going down to the tomb of peter, it's beneath the main altar in st. peter's basilica. he's being accompanied by ten bishops from the eastern bishop churches. they're in full union with rome and when they're there they will remove the pallium. it's a symbol of him being a shepherd of his flock. the fisherman's ring, the ring of peter that symbolizes the authority of his office, they will then process back up from
the tomb up to the main floor of the basilica and out into the square. you see there the altar area where the pope will be seated during the mass. the ceremony will begin with a formal imposition of the pallium and the fisherman's ring. we will transition into what is the regular mass for today. today is the feast of saint joseph, saint joseph being not only the husband of mary but also the patron saint of the worldwide universal catholic church. 1.2 billion strong family of faith all around the world. and that will be the mass that pope francis is going to lead this morning celebrated by many of the cardinals who, of course, elected him to the papacy and also many of the over 80 cardinals who did not take place in the conclave but who are also here today to profess their
loyalty and support for the new pope. >> john, is this ceremony typical for most of the ceremonies like that? is there anything different here? >> well, there are a couple of touches that are basically designed to sort of keep things moving so it doesn't take too long. for one thing, some of the traditional prayers in latin have been truncated, shortened and the pope has expressed a desire for some of them to be delivered in greek to describe the universe salt of the church. there are other small elements of the mass that have been eliminated in order to make sure that it's not too sprawling. in general, what we're going to be seeing today is the normal mass, the normal liturgy. the distinctive elements of the inaugural mass come at the beginning, which is the imposition of the pallium, the
imposition of the fisherman's ring symbolizing the authority of his office. the pallium will be given to him by jean-louis tauran and the pal yum will be given by the senior cardinal deacon. then we'll get the normal mass of the feast of saint joseph. >> what we're taking a look at here is all of the dignitaries that have decided to attend the mass today. you're taking a look at live pictures. we're going to take a quick break here and we'll be back with much more on the installation of pope francis.
there. it should start moments from now. we have lots of people joining us this morning. we have maryanne walsh, john allen, monseigneur irwin. i'd like to start this morning with monseigneur irwin. we have a cnn/orc poll i'd like to discuss with you, specifically about americans and how they feel about this pope and what the expectations are with this new pope. are you with us this morning? >> i look forward to -- yes, ma'am. >> i'm going to share some of the results here with you. with 190 catholics interviewed, these are american catholics. i know that the issues that americans are dealing with are a bit different than in other countries. so 76% say that pope francis should allow catholics to use birth control. 59% say pope francis should allow women to become priests.
64% say pope francis should allow priests to marry, and 64% say they are more likely to follow their own consciouses. th question is, can pope francis effect change. he's talking to the people. he's kissing babies. he's affable. everybody loves him. at the end of the day the question is, can he really change anything within the catholic church? >> well, some of those things he simply cannot change, and that's because of doctrinal changes. some things he can put a focus on. for example, on saturday as he's meeting an audience, he mentioned saint frap sis as the patron of creation. nothing very good to creation have we. that got lost. if you're in creation,
environment, ecology will not be lost on this pope. there are other issues in which he can emphasize main line catholic teachings. >> father beck, if you could weigh in on that as well. >> all of those issues you mentioned, women priest, certainly, would be the most unchanged. birth control, 1969, the end result of that was not to listen to a group that was at vatican recommending a change in the church position on that. this pope could have another conversation about birth control if he wanted to. married priesthood. that is a discipline in the catholic church. it's not doctrine. for the first 1,000 years of the church priests married. we have now anglo can priests coming from the anglo can communion into the roman catholic communion. it's being done. there's no reason it can't be done.
that is the highest moral barometer, one's countries conscious. >> you said he could but will he based on what we know about him? >> well, again, he has been considered rather conservative with most of these issues thus far. he's already surprised us and broke general tradition. when john xxiii became the pope, everybody thought he would be the transition pope and he called the second vatican council and look what happened. indeed, we can have some surprises come from unexpected places. >> we have seen, as you said, a change in style already. we've seen it from the minute that he was picked to be pope. the cardinals elected him pope in the conclave and we've seen it already this morning. i want to play you tape in case you're just waking up now of the pope's trip to st. peter's square in the pope mobile. some of the extraordinary moments we saw just a short while ago.
this, as i said, earlier. the pope in open air. this is the first time since john ii. >> i noticed about the sides, it was missing the glass but it was certainly not like this, totally open air. we've not seen this in a long time. >> in this open air popemobile, he was handed a baby to kiss. we have some footage of that, i believe. there it is right there. that's a long distance, by the way, for a baby to be handed. he took the baby, gave a giant kiss. the giant smile that has become something to be expected. there's that baby again. not smiling at first. >> not a happy baby wondering where i am headed to. >> a blessed baby i think we can all say. even more poignant, the pope
descends from the pope mobile to kiss a sick man in the crowd. >> offers a blessing. >> that's such a touching image. i can't help but think of the image of jesus reaching out to the paralyzed man and saying, stand up. here is this pope, pope francis, is coming to this invalid man, kissing him and blessing him. what a constellation to that man. >> zoraida's been asking about big policy changes to the catholic church, but when you see these stylistic changes, are they insignificant or are they perhaps a step on the road to bigger changes. >> i think they're very significant. again, he seems to be breaking the barriers for already the actions that this man has done. hugging the cardinal and having him kiss this ring, riding the bus with him, paying his own bills. the simple vestment.
ashoeing the red shoes. that's a big step to changing the papacy. >> jim bidderman is there live. i want you to fill us in on where the poen is and what's happening. >> reporter: well, the time line that we've been given by the vatican, basically the pope will be in the process of being vested which is getting his outfit ready for the ceremonies that are about to come. then on the way down to st. peter's tomb, which is right below the main altar. the remains of saint peter are set to be, at least according to legend, are in the tomb. the pope will pray at the tomb and get the first sight of the pallium, that wool lynn scarf he will wear, a symbol of his authority and the papal ring will be presented to him. they'll be presented more formally in the main square later on at the beginning of the mass. he'll proceed upwards and we'll catch sight of him.
i think we're actually getting some shots here. this is under -- i'm sorry, this is tape, i think, of the inside of the basilica. but in any case, it'll be the moment that -- when he processes out with the cardinals that we'll see him out on the main square with the people. >> john allen, i want to bring you back in here because we are now seeing pictures from inside. we're seeing the cardinals we recognize. we briefly saw the leaders i believe of those eastern churches. >> yes, that's right. so the staircase that you just saw leads down below the main altar of st. peter's basilica into the crypt where saint peter is located. the pope went down to get the pallium and the fissureman's ring. the greek catholic church in
ukraine, the catholic church in egypt. they follow the eastern orthodox liturgy and they are in full communion with rome. the pope wanted them to be with him to symbolize the full universe salt of the church. the riot to usously diverse. >> the procession. >> that's what i want to know. if you can walk us through and tell us what's happening. >> what's happening, this is the procession leading up from the tomb through the heart of st. peter's basilica. they are going out into st. peter's square to the altar area that has been set up where pope francis will lead this liturgy. before the mass begins the two key sort of ceremonial moments will be he will receive the pallium, the woolen band of
cloth that symbolizes his role as the shepherd of the universal church and the fissuremhfisherm. after that's been bestowed on him, then the normal mass for the feast of saint joseph will begin. today, march 19th is the feast of saint joseph, the husband of mary, the patron of the worldwide catholic church. perfect bit of symbolism. the pope is the leader of that worldwide family of faith. being able to celebrate his inaugural mass on this day is particularly symbolically appropriate. >> we're going to listen in for a moment. ♪ ♪
>> yes. so the -- pope francis is now kneeling before the tomb of peter where the actual physical remains of peter are believed to be kept. as you indicated, zoraida, the vatican and vatican officials have placed the pallium and ring there. they will be in actual physical contact, so to speak, with peter. when the pope is done praying he will then -- the pallium and the ring will be removed and the procession will be up from the crypt out through the heart of st. peter's basilica and out through the square. the officials you see behind him. here he has what's called a sensor and the pope is using that to ven nnerate the remains. according to tradition began with peter, humble fisher man
from galilee chosen to be the leader of the church. pope francis would be the 266th pope of the catholic church stretching over more than 2,000 years. every one of them began his ministry in one way or another by paying homage to the original pontiff, peter. pontiff is a latin word that means bridge builder. the notion is that the pope is that bridge that unites all of the catholics in the world with this -- in this symbol fixture who plays the role of their spiritual leader and father. remember, the word pope means father. catholics by tradition look upon the pope as their spiritual father and that is the role which francis has been blessed friday night. i accept in the sistine chapel.
it's being formalized here. >> as part of this formal ceremony, shortly he will receive the pallium, a shawl made of lamb's wool. >> it's made from lamb's wool by sheep made from the locals and the nuns weave it. you have the shepherds of the church putting the sheep on his shoulder. he's literally carrying it. >> he will wear it. >> yes. we've heard how interesting this is. this particular ring is a recycled ring from the secretary of paul vi who had passed it down. it is not gold, it is gold-plated. it is a silver ring. again, simple. it has the image of peter with the keon that ring and this is the ring that is like the fisher
>> they are now processing out of st. peter's basilica right there. pope francis has presumably received the pallium and the fisher man's ring. they were retrieved from on top of saint peter's tom. john allen, is that correct? is he now in possession of these? >> yes, that's -- yes. they are being carried in procession and what is going to happen shortly, once this procession ends and pope francis has taken his place there on the altar area on the square, is that these two symbols of his office, the pallium and the fisherman's ring will be formally bestowed upon him. the pallium will be bestowed by the senior cardinal in the order of deacons. the college of cardinals is divided up to three orders. so the senior cardinal deacon, jeanlouis tauran will bestow the
pallium. the ring will be bestowed by the 85-year-old cardinal angelo sedano. those two items are being carried in the procession. we're getting ready for that moment that they will be bestowed on the pope. the pallium is symbolizing the shepherd and the ring is symbolizing the authority. he steps into the shoes of the fisherman, saint peter. the pope is considered to be the guide of the church. >> monseigneur kevin irwin who has been with us all morning, professor of theology. we have been talking about the common touch of pope francis getting out of the pope mobile, greeting an infirm man. that's the common touch. what we are seeing now is very much the pomp and circumstance. this is not devoid of ceremony, what we're seeing this morning,
is it? >> this is less pomp and more circumstance with this pope. the issue here is how he can convey his common talk in the life and liturgy of the church. this is much simplified today by his design. >> i'd like to bring in sister maryanne walsh as we're watching the cardinals there and what their role will be in the mass today. >> i'm struck by the simplicity that's been mentioned and what we're going to see, i think, is an emphasis on two major concerns in our society right now. one is the environment. st. francis was important to the environment and pope francis also makes this an issue. you'll see that in his homily. also he talks of goodness and tenderness, and i think that theme is coming through even now. things are simplified. the people won't be standing for
three or four hours. he's doing everything to maintain the reverence of the church, maintain the reverence of the liturgy and yet respect the people who are attending it. >> the concelebrating will be there. the secretary of the college of cardinals. two superior generals, superior general of the jesuits and transciscans. >> we have talked so much about the fact that pope benedict is a jesuit. the coat of arms will be part of his jesuit. >> we've seen that symbol, the ihs, is the jesuit symbol.
the fact that the superior general is here, one of the major concelebrants. he was pro vinceal for the jesuits in argentinea. we'll see more. >> john allen, can you come back in. i think everybody has left -- actually, we still see some popes processing out. can you talk to us about what's going to happen next here? >> sure. once this procession is finished, once the cardinals have gathered around the altar and the pope has been seated, then there's a sort of corner stone moment of the inaugural will take place which is the bestowal of the pallium, the woolen cloth that symbolizes the role of the shepherd, the flock, and the bestowal of the fisherman's ring. the regular mass for the feast of saint joseph will begin.
there will be readings from the bible, from the old testament, the new testament. probably the peak moment will come when pope francis delivers what's called a homily, a set of remarks which are usually reflect tires on the scripture reading. we are presuming that pope francis will offer us some thoughts as he begins his ministry as the leader of the catholic church. bear in mind, although the vatican has already issued an advanced copy of the homily under embargo, this is not a pope who considers him shackled to a prepared text. we are going to have to stay on our toes and see if he is going to ad lib. the mass will transition from what is known as the liturgy of
the word to the liturgy of the eucharist building to the culminating moment when catholics believe that the bread and wine is transformed to the body and blood of christ. one note. we have been informed that pope francis himself will not be distributing communion. that's going to be done by a team of priests. this is designed to not overly prolong the ceremony and then at the end of the mass pope francis is going to return to back inside the st. peter's basilica where he will greet the heads of state and other dignitaries who are on hand. >> john, the pope, pope francis, is now outside. we have a little while to go in this processional. i wonder if you will humor me because you wrote a remarkable article that was published this morning detailing what went on in the conclave. we're a few days into his papacy. we forget it was only a week ago we had no idea on who the pope
would be and you shine some light on how it was that jorge mario bergoglio became pope francis. >> well, it's worth remembering, john and zoraida, that we were all saying there was no clear front-runner in this race and this might be a refracted conclave. instead, of course, the cardinals settled on cardinal bergoglio from buenos aires in one day. it begs the question of how that happened. what i suggest is it was an intersection of three forces. one being the desire to elect a pope from outside europe and outside the west. in practice, that meant looking to one of the 19 latin american cardinals who were in the conclave. second was a strong antiestablishment mood on many cardinals who wanted to break the old patterns of doing business in the vatican and sort of shake things up, in in particular wanting somebody who
could deliver a serious reform in greater transparency, accountability, and efficiency. the third was the fact that cardinal bergoglio had had very strong support in the conclave eight years ago that elected joseph ratzinger. 50 of the cardinals this time had taken place last time. if you add things up, that's how you take a man who was seen a long shot to, in effect, a consensus candidate elected quite rapidly in just five ballots. >> great article. the path to papacy. not him, not him, therefore, him. can you tell us what's happening right now? >> sure. well, this is the pope moving -- again, you see him with the censor, the incense, which
symbolizes the prayers of the community being lifted to god with the incense. he moved around the altar using the censor, the incense. you now see him moving towards the area where he will lead the liturgy in the central piazza, st. peter's square. we will see the two key symbols bestowed, the pallium which you see there, the pallium made out of wool and it will be bestowed over the shoulders of the pope. again, the symbolism there is it represents the pope as shepherd leading this flock of the church. then after that he will receive his ring, the fisherman's ring which father ed told us a moment ago in this case is made not out
of solid gold but gold-plated silver. it had been in the former possession of the former arch bishop. it will symbolize his authority as the leader of the church. >> monseigneur kevin irwin who is in the crowd there in st. peter's square, this is a mass and celebration of st. joseph's day, which is a day that not many americans know about i think. >> translator: may be god of peace be brought back from the dead, our lord jesus christ, a great shepherd of the sheep bestow upon you the pallium be taken from the tomb of the apostle peter. the shepherd charged peter to see his lambs and his sheep. today you succeed him as the
bishop of this church to which he and the apostle paul were fathers in faith. the spirit of truth that proceeds from the father grant you his abundant gift of which is come and eloquence of confirming your breathen in the faith. ♪ ♪ >> it is the presentation of the pallium, one of the most significant, symbolic moments of the ceremony, father beck. >> yes. the woolen pallium is being placed now. of course, it is woven from lamb's wool, from sheeps raised by amongmonks. it is woven by the nuns. the shepherd is carrying his flock. that's their connection to the pope, they wear the same vest.
>> john allen mentioned, the five red crosss. the wounds of christ. >> although benedict's had six crosses on it so i always wondered what the sixth cross signified. no one has ever been able to tell me why some have six and why some have five. >> translator: those who call upon you with upright and devout heart, hear the fervent prayer of your church and pour forth your blessing upon your servant, francis, our poen, to whom your humbled service you have granted climb maci in the apostolic office. may he be strengthened by the gift of your holy spirit and worthily exercise his high ministry in accordance with the eminent charism he has received
through christ our lord. ♪ ♪ pope francis about to receive the fisherman's ring. if we could talk a bit about the significance of that. >> yes. it will be presented by cardinal angelo sedano who is the dean of the cardinals. it's a simple ring. gold-plated ring. it comes from an italian designer. >> let's listen in a minute
here. >> translator: the shepherd and guardian of our souls who built a church upon rock, grant you the ring, the seal of peter the fisherman who put his hope in him on the sea of galilee and to whom the lord jesus entrusted the keys of the kingdom of heaven. today you succeed the blessed apostle peter as the bishop of this church which presides over the unity of charity as the blessed apostle paul has taught, may the spirit of charity poured into our hearts grant you the gentleness and strength to preserve through your ministry all those who believe in christ in unity and fellowship. ♪ ♪
anymore, but it's symbolic now. >> he did receive it from cardinal angelo sedano, a towering figure in the vatican. >> yes. certainly the dean very influential in the conclave and of course now probably will not be continuing, but that remains to be seen. >> translator: you are peter and upon this rock i will build my church. ♪ ♪ >> and, father beck, if you could tell us what happens next. >> there's going to be the oath of obedience, and it will be simplified. there will only be six cardinals taking it, two from each board representatives of the college.
two cardinal pitch shobishops. it's the oath of obedience to the father. >> i want to bring john allen in. i don't know if he can answer this question, but i'm going to ask it anyway. what do you think is going through pope francis's mind right now? >> well, zoraida, this takes us deep into armchair psychology, of course, which is always dangerous. first of all, this is an extraordinarily simple, humble man who i think is doing everything he possibly can to humanize this office. at one level you have to imagine he's a little uncomfortable. >> i'm going to interrupt you for one second. we're hearing from pope francis.
it will. >> translator: i confess to almighty god, and you my brothers and sisters my thoughts and my words. what i have done, what i have failed to do, through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault, therefore, i ask blessed mary, ever virgin, all the angels and saints, and you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me, to the lord, our god. may almighty god have mercy on us, forgive us our sins, and bring us to everlasting life. amen. ♪ ♪ >> translator: lord have mercy.
>> father beck, we are where in the mass? >> this is the penetension mass. as you come to listen to the words, forgiveness will pass them. this is the curia elasion being chanted. it is for forgiveness. >> do we know who is singing? >> there are a few put together who are significant. >> it is beautiful to listen to, no doubt. i want to ask sister marian walsh, media director of the catholic bishops, as a media director, as an expert in both religion and the media right now, this is a tremendous media
event. this is a tremendous introduction to the world now that's really been going on for days. >> i thought about this. the media coverage has been wonderful but i don't think the media is doing it for the church but for the people. i think your ratings have been very high because religion matters to people. with statistics thrown around, more people go to mass on sunday than go to professional sports events, but i think as the networks that are responding now to the great interest in religion among the people and certainly in the united states and probably elsewhere. >> one of the things we've been told throughout the morning is ben wedeman was telling us earlier, that the crowd's not as huge as they were perhaps last week. it is tuesday, after all, and people do have to work. one of the advantages of this is that so many people in the crowd, they're getting a really close look at pope francis when
he toured around in the square in the open air pope mobile and greeted the people of rome which is a personal view. >> he actually went around twice, which is not what anyone expected him to do. as we have seen, pope francis is going to be a different kind of pope here and really connect to the people in a really spectacular way. i want to bring jim allen back in. i'm sorry, john allen. we were talking to you a little bit earlier about what you thought could be going on through pope francis' mind. >> well, at one level i think it's very clear from the man's style and personality that he's not comfortable with great theater so there's probably a comfort level issue there. on the other hand, we should say this is not some wide eyed person. he announced him as a lifetime of reflection of what it means
to be a leader in the catholic church, an exception of leadership and service. while i think he is conscious of the awesomeness of the task that lies before him, he also projects the kind of basic serenity and a kind of calm in the eye of the storm that is really quite striking. one other thing we probably should say about crowd size. let's remember, the turnout from argentina might have been considerably larger, but pope francis actually asked the people of argentina not to spend money in terms of turning out at his inaugural mass and take what they might have spent to come here to help the poor very much in keeping with his concern for the forgotten of the world. remember in a meeting with journalists the other day the new pope said that he dreams of a poor church that is for the poor. so his invitation to the people of his native country to use their resources not for a trip to rome but supporting those in
need very much consistent of the broad vision of where he would like the church to go. >> one of the people that is in the audience today is the president of argentina. they had clashed on social issues throughout the years. >> you're right, zoraida. >> can you hear me? >> yes. i'm sorry, zoraida. go ahead. >> let's go to jim bidderman. he's there live. what is the mood there? what is the sense that you're feeling? >> well, just to pick up on what you were saying about the president of argentina, zoraida. they have flashed over the years, particularly recently over issues like same-sex marriage and a number of other issues. distribution of free condoms and that sort of thing. but, nonetheless, when they met yesterday, they met for about 15
minutes yesterday, it was quite a cordial meeting. going back to something we talked about earlier. the pope's role as the moral authority, already pope francis is being called into play. the president of argentina asked the pope if they wouldn't intervene in the feud over the islands. high offices are being evoked even though he hasn't been in office for a week. >> jim, i saw that as an incredibly shrewd move by the argentine president trying to deflect some of the friction she may have had with the pope in the past to something that might unite the ar again team people. >> exactly. as much to the dismay of the british, but it is something that the pope agrees