tv CNN Newsroom CNN March 19, 2013 8:00am-9:00am PDT
flo rida, dave matthews band, ludacris all performing -- >> did you say flo rida? >> flo rida, exactly. when you combine sting and flo rida, it's an amazing concert. it's a free concert and they're expecting 140,000 people to pass through that concert series. they're getting ready for not only a weekend of basketball coming up, but also a great weekend of partying, if you will. >> did i hear muse was going to be there too? >> say again? >> muse? >> muse, of course. how could i forget muse? >> that's my favorite band! >> yes, muse is going to be here. >> i love them. so you filled out your bracket. that's who you have winning them all. >> i cannot divulge that information -- indiana. i went to iu. i'm sorry. we all have our affiliations. the security guards are already yelling at me, because some guy's like, hey, you didn't back north carolina, sorry, i'm doing
the best i can. you have to go with your affiliations. >> i picked out louisville this year, with a lot of help. because i have to be honest, basketball, college basketball is not my strong suit. and as a very smart person, i reached out to others for help. and i'm sure that i'm going to win it all this year. because as you know, we're all competing here within cnn, knowing you. >> yeah, i plan to be in the bottom half of that bracket. but you have a state pick with louisville, because it's the number one seed. and you can watch all the games on twitter this year. the social media is unbelievable with these games. you can watch highlights on twitter and then tonight on trutv, you have the first four starting out tonight. you can see the bracket up there. north carolina state -- excuse me, north carolina amt against liberty. and you have middle tennessee against st. mary's. so it's going to be an amazing start to the tournament tonight. liberty, the true cinderella so far. they've lost 20 games, but because they won their
conference, they're playing tonight in the first game of the tournament. >> okay. i still think i'm going to beat you, although we don't win any prize money for winning. >> unless we're wagering, which is totally illegal, so we have to -- it's all for fun, all for friendly fun. and i do think you're going to beat me, because i have no idea what i'm talking about. >> carlos, thanks so much. i'm carol costello. thanks so much for joining us. "cnn newsroom" continues right the now with ashleigh banfield. hi, everybody. good to have you with us today. this is a case that caught fire on social media and thus we return to steubenville, ohio, where two teenage boys were convicted of rape on sunday and where two teenage girls are now expected in court today after allegedly threatening the victim. yes, the suspects allegedly threatened the life of the victim, of rape. it happened in a tweet, in a facebook post that the sheriff read to our poppy harlow.
>> you ripped my family apart, you made my cousin cry, when i see you, it's going to be a homicide. i take this seriously. >> of course. >> and the next? >> the next is, i'll celebrate by beating the [ bleep ] out of jane doe. >> verbatim. to be clear, the first one was a tweet, and the 16-year-old girl who allegedly sent it is now facing an aggravated menace charge, while the second was a facebook post, and the 15-year-old girl who allegedly sent it is facing a menacing charge. aggravated menacing and menacing. the sheriff says he is now monitoring all social media for any other threats that might come or may be out there now. mike dewine is the attorney general for the state of ohio and joins us now live. attorney general, after the verdict, you said that this is not an societal problem. this is -- this is not a steubenville problem, this is a societal problem. and that too many people, and i'm going to quote you, have a cavalier attitude about rape.
apparently some people did not quite get the message. what is going on in the state of ohio? and if you care to elaborate, across the country. >> well, we had two individuals who clearly didn't get the message. they went up right after the verdict, or some time after the verdict, and, you know, as you just reported, one threatened the life of the victim. the other threatened to do bodily harm to the victim. and you know, we have the first amendment and people are allowed to be obnoxious and they're allowed to say crazy things. and that's fine, but they can't, under ohio law, threaten to kill someone. and we had to take action. >> it even goes further than that. it's just so dreadfully obvious, to most people who are watching right now, that you just don't do this. you just can't do this. it's morally wrong, it's reprehensible, it's illegal. and we thought we had a teaching moment yesterday when we saw the process. we watched it all unravel throughout the last two days. is this really the state of the union among kids today, or is
this an aberration, what these two girls allegedly have done? >> well, you know, my wife and i have eight children. we have now 19 grandchildren. i don't know that this is the, you know, certainly, it's not where every young person is today. we know better than that. but i do think, and what i said sunday is, if we think this is a steubenville, ohio, problem, we're wrong. rapes like this, very similar to this, that arose out of a social setting, occur every friday night, saturday night, and other days of the week, not just in steubenville, but across this country. and we do have this cavalier attitude among some people, and some young people, about rape. you have a situation where, you know, some of the people involved and some of the people who witnessed this didn't even think what they saw was rape. oh, i thought -- one quote was, one of the witnesses, oh, i
thought, you know, it had to be violence. well, this violated this young lady. and i think that the other thing that is so disturbing, we talk about the social media, this is a victim who was violated, was raped, has had to go through the process, but she continues to be victimized in the social media. time after time after time. and as recently as sunday afternoon after the verdict. >> and this is my concern. this is why i had to have you on again today. i've heard you implore people to not be like this, for children to not behave like this, to not treat sex like it just doesn't matter. and to not treat people and young people like they just don't matter. and yet, when i looked at some of the statistics on the 13 cell phones that the police were looking at, i was astounded to see that just 13 cell phones yielded 396,270 text messages,
308,586 photos, and 940 videos. this is not to say that the entire mass of what you're seeing on your screen had to do with this case, but the social media is so unbelievable to so many people, young and old. i'm wondering if the tooth paste is out of the tube when it comes to how cavalier these young people are behaving and what they're doing and what they're saying, or if we need to legislate, which is where you come in, or if we just need to implore parents to work harder, or all of the above? >> well, maybe a little bit of all of the above. i'm not sure it's additional legislation. we have a lot of laws on the books. i think it gets back to parents. the responsibility we all have, as parents. the responsibility we have to teach our kids common decency. you know, you talk about the texts. you know, kids text a lot today. it's phenomenal. there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. i mean, it's a little distracting, i find it, personally distracting when kids are constantly texting, but they
can be texting something that is just benign and just fine. >> of course, notwithstanding. notwithstanding. but we know the bullying, we know the attitudes, we know the cruelty that now goes on, the verbal cruelty that goes on among social media. >> yeah, look, i think what we have with the social media and the digital media, and all the telecommunications we have today is a big megaphone, amplification. we see it -- i see it in my office on consumer fraud. somebody used to be able to commit consumer fraud and they would do it in their own neighborhood or their own town. now they can rip off people in 45 states, because they go off on the internet. >> do we need to make an example of these two young girls? i want to get back to this case in particular. it's just so distressing. do we need to make an example of these two girls, who at this point are alleged to have sent out these extraordinary threats to this young rape victim. is this another teachable moment? you make it even more so? >> i think the teachable moment
was when they were arrested yesterday. i mean, i think that sends a message, and the sheriff was very eloquent, as you just quoted him, and showed him. you know, people who want to continue to victimize this victim, to threaten her, we are going to deal with them. and we're going to go after them. and we don't ware whether they're juveniles or whether they're adults. you know, enough is enough. we've had enough of this. and people need to put it behind them. they need to move on. they can have their own thoughts, their own beliefs, but they cannot threaten this victim, who has been victimized time and time again. we're not going to tolerate it. >> i sure hope we're at the end of this and i fear we are nowhere near close the end of it. and certainly with a grand jury convening, i know we're not at the end. attorney general mike dewine, thank you very much. i know this was a very last-minute request and you were able to fulfill it for us, so thank you. i want to share with our viewers a brand-new statement that came from the victim's mom and it
came last night. have a listen. >> my family and i are hopeful that we can put this horrible ordeal behind us. we need and deserve to focus on our daughter's future. we hope that from this something good can arise. i feel i have an opportunity to bring an awareness to others, possibly change the mentality of a youth or help a parent to have more of an awareness to where their children are and what they are doing. the adults n s need to take responsibility and guide these children. i ask every person listening, what if this was your daughter, your sister, or your friend? we need to stress the importance of helping those in need and to stand up for what is right. we all have that option to choose. this is the start of a new beginning for my daughter. i ask that you all continue to pray for her and all victims, and please respect our privacy as we help our family to heal. thank you. >> yesterday, when we covered this story at length, we talked about this case as potentially a teaching moment. we just talked about it as a teaching moment with the attorney general of ohio. one of our guests yesterday said, essentially, don't hold your breath, and it was very sad
to hear that. so i had to have her back, considering it sounds like she was right, the fournl of the national coalition against athletes. and lisa bloom is an legal analyst from avo.com. kat kathy, i was so upset when i heard you say, don't expect this is going to be the moment that changes everything. and then along came the tweet and the facebook posts last night and i thought of you immediately. you were right. >> i didn't want to be. but i've been doing this for such a long time, and i see these patterns repeat over and over and over. and when you add the social media, you've really added a very toxic combination of the messages that girls get, the messages that boys get, lack of parental involvement. add social media to the mix and kids that don't have a filter, you'll get this. and that -- and that message,
that these girls sent, went to so many other rape victims. and it also went to so many other possible predators, who would prey on those rape victims. >> lisa bloom, jump in here, if you will. i just asked the attorney general, is it potentially another teaching moment, i say with trepidation, considering, having gone through this just 24 hours ago. these are serious charges, but what does i mean for juveniles? >> imagine how tough it was for this rape victim to come forward knowing that girls in her school are going to drag her down, testify against her at the trial, as they did, calling her a liar, and now threatening her life. i applaud her courage in taking the stand for six hours. but ashleigh, it's a mixed bag. because the reason why this case was prosecuted was because of the ground swell on social media. and when we talk about social media, we're talking about girls and women, ordinary girls and women, who took to twitter, facebook, instagram, and demanded this prosecution happen. it did happen. demanded that law enforcement prosecute this case.
they did prosecute this case. and we got a guilty verdict. so i applaud women across this country, who stood up for this girl, who could not speak for herself at the time she was being raped, and objected loudly to what happened. i think there's a lot of progress going on in this country on women's right, and specifically on rape and sexual assault. >> so, kathy, you have been through this. what's out there for the victim once the courtroom doors close? i mean, we've heard the threats. does she have any protections? does the state look at her? does someone make sure that someone doesn't act on these threats? >> no. no. the victim is out there really on her own and by herself. and we see with social media, of course, we just heard the positives, but we see some of the negatives. that is that kids are on social media all the time. they don't have a filter. they're throwing out these messages. they're constantly throwing out threats. and there really the no protection for victims. and i'm very appreciative for mike dewine for the work that
he's done to make examples of these people. because that's so important. but it's important that i can troll twitter all the time and look at high school athletes who are being heavily recruited, look at their twitter posts, and they've got some of the craziest messages that i've ever seen. and if they don't think that those colleges are watching what they're posting, that they're watching what current athletes are posting, that professional organizations aren't watching that, they all are. and this is where prosecutors are getting leads for sexual assault. that whole vacuum, that whole area is where -- an area that we haven't been before, when it comes to sexual assaults, but an area that teens are so into and so on right now, that there is no filter. but, of course, again, those unhealthy, toxic messages are out there. and they're getting to the girls and the boys. and these are the things that
contribute to that rape culture. >> sorry. and it's also a parenting, ashleigh, as you say. i wrote a couple books about this, one called "swagger." it's very important for parents to monitor kids' social media. it's our responsibility, until they're 18 years old, to monitor what they're saying on facebook, twitter, and elsewhere. and guess what, if they're not saying appropriate things, we as parents have the right to take down their access to online social media. in fact, i would say it's our responsibility. because they can be criminally prosecuted, as these two girls are. so parents, please, you have the right to the user name and password of every website your kids go on. prosecutors don't have that right, but we as parents have that right. and i think that's our responsibility in a digital age. >> without question, it starts in the home. kathy, i hope i don't see you again, but i fear i'm going to see you again. because as we said, we have another grand jury coming. so kathy, thank you. and lisa bloom, i'll see you again in a few moments, if you could stand by. i want to check some other
top stories. with the official start of spring just a day away, take a look at your screen. that's winter not going out like a lamb, at least not in new england and parts of the midwest. we had some pretty heavy snowfall and it triggered a lot of snow and school closings because of snow from massachusetts to maine. that storm is also causing huge flight delays in the new york city area and that's a domino effect. up to 12 inches of snow is forecast for new england through wednesday morning. the bells of buenos aires, peeling for a native son turned pope. a lovely sound. and just a few hours earlier, six days after his election, argentine cardinal jorge mario was formally installed as pop francis and you can see him receiving his papal ring, which is secondhand and not solid gold, in keeping with the pope's
already famous disdain for worldly trapping. another big departure from the customs of his predecessor. he greeted his flock from an open-topped suv, kissing babies. you can't kiss babies through bulletproof glass, so this is what he decided. and in his homoly, the pope held up the st. joseph, whose feast day is today, as the model of a loving and faithful protector of god's creations. president obama is preparing for his first presidential trip to israel and he's leaving this evening, expected to talk with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu about middle east peace, syria, iran. it's a pretty thick list. the president is also going to stop in the west bank and jordan. jodi arias has a pretty good memory when it comes to her sex life with her former boyfriend, travis alexander, and pretty graphic detail, in fact. however, she can't remember some very, very important facts, like the number of times that she
stabbed him, slashed his throat, shooting him in the face, when it happened, how it happened, exactly. a psychologist for the defense explains why this memory seems, at least seems, conveniently foggy. [ male announcer ] just when you thought you had experienced performance a new ride comes along and changes everything. the powerful gs. get great values on your favorite lexus models during the command performance sales event. this is the pursuit of perfection. from the united states postal service a small jam maker can ship like a big business. just go online to pay, print and have your packages picked up for free. we'll do the rest. ♪
now to phoenix, where jodi arias' defense is trying to convince a jury that she just cannot remember all the details of the killing of her ex-boyfriend, travis alexander. the defense psychologist returns to the stand in just two hours. no one is denying that she shot him and that she stabbed him, 29 times, in fact, when you include the defensive wounds. but she says her memory of that night is foggy. what she does remember, however, some extraordinarily explicit details of their sex life and that he threatened her, she says. our jean casarez, correspondent for "in session" on trutv, has been in the courtroom, watching all of this unfold. and also with me, lisa bloom is back, legal analyst for avo.com, and glenda hatchet, who is a former juvenile court judge. let me begin with you, jean. this is an expert who spoke with jodi arias and to whom jodi
arias also lied, which i find really, really tough to digest. if that's the fact, then is his opinion in this case relevant when he himself has been lied to by the defendant? >> you know, ashleigh, that is the whole point. you and i have seen so many expert witnesses take the stand, and when they are cross-examined, the whole point is to impeach them so their opinion is not valued by the jury. and the ultimate opinion of this witness, this forensic psychologist, is that jodi arias suffered from posttraumatic stress disorder. he looked at a number of things, but he administered the standardized test that you administer to determine if someone is afflicted by this. and as a question on that, if you have been assaulted by strangers, she answered yes, and her answer was, because intruders came to travis' home and assaulted her. that's a lie. >> oh, boy. >> and he realized that was a lie later on, and he had to admit, you know, maybe i should
have readministered that test. so his ultimate opinion, ashleigh, of posttraumatic stress disorder, was absolutely invalidated in the minds of many, because of that lie on that critical test. >> there's been so much lying, inside and outside of this courtroom, it seems, that there seems to be also a lot of frustration. some have reported that the looks on the jurors' faces have been frustrated, others have been clearly frustrated in the gallery, and it turns out there was frustration for the judge also, because yesterday, the prosecutor had to be reprimanded, stop yelling at the witness. judge hatchett, that's not good. if you're a prosecutor, if you're a defense attorney, if you're trying to plead your case, you can't yell. >> no, you can't yell. you cannot yell. i realize that he's passionate, but there is a line, ashleigh, and we all know that, that you get to the point where it becomes counterproductive. the jury may start believing that he's bullying the witnesses. i mean, he's got to really scale that back. i mean, i understand that he's got to be aggressive and i thought he did a great job in
this cross-examination of this witness yesterday. i mean, he tore him apart. but you've got to tone down the yelling. that's just not appropriate. >> lisa bloom, here's one of the reasons i love you so much. you have done so much work in domestic violence, and then you come into this courtroom and you look at this witness and i don't want you to have to read the tea leaves on this case, but knowing what you know about how victims of domestic violence can get foggy memories and lie, do you believe jodi arias in her 18 days of testimony? >> no, i don't believe anything that she says. i wrote a blog post about this on avo.com. this is an insult to true victims of domestic violence, who have fought so long and so hard to get some recognition. she's lied about so many things. and by the way, i'm a pretty aggressive person in the courtroom. i've been admonished by judges to tone it down. i would never want to be admonished by judge hatchett, that's for sure, but it does happen. and tempers are flaring, this case has been going on since jan january. i think this prosecutor is doing an magnificent job and one
little admonition from the judge is probably not going to make that much of a difference. >> every single time i cover a death penalty case, especially when a woman is involved, and there aren't that many, the first thing i think to myself is, it's just not going to happen. they're not going to look at that woman and condemn her to death. and personally, i'm not so sure this time around. i have ten seconds for both of you, starting with you, judge hatchett, do you think they can do it this time? >> i think they can do it this time. and let's remember that this prosecutor has someone on death row who's a woman. there are only three women in arizona who's on death row and he prosecuted one of thoese cases. >> ten men on the jury. i think it is possible. this is a death-qualified jury. they have all sworn oaths they could do it if the facts were there. >> i'm going to throw this out there, and maybe i'll eat my words, but i think this will be a short deliberation. jean casarez, thank you. lisa bloom and judge hatchett will join me a little bit later on in this hour. and you can watch the entire
trial today, we have it live on cnn.com and hln as well. thousands of american men and women who fought in operation iraqi freedom lost their lives or came home forever changed. it's been ten years since that war began. three soldier's stories. you will not believe their change. [ female announcer ] born from the sweet monk fruit,
seven marines were killed during a training exercise in nevada. several others were also injured at the hawthorne army depot. there are very few details coming out of the base other than there was a traffic accident associated with these deaths and that the exact cause is still under investigation. that depot is a high desert training facility for the military. there's been another arrest in pakistan, connected to the killing of american journalist, daniel pearl. you might remember that pearl was kidnapped and beheaded on the internet, the tape passed around by militants back in 2002. pakistani officials arrested a man this week who they believe facilitated that kidnapping. so far, one man has been sentenced to death in the pearl case. three others are serving life sentences.
ten years ago today, president george w. bush went on national television to announce the start of the u.s. invasion of iraq. he unleashed the extraordinary force known as shock and awe. remember this? massive air bombardment of saddam hussein's dictatorship. ten years later, saddam is dead, but iraqis are still being killed. the victims of sectarian bloodletting. at least 48 people killed just today in a wave of bombings across that country. here are the stats. the war killed 4,488 americans, a much greater toll for the iraqis. more than 134,000 killed. the war has cost hundreds of billions of dollars. of course, the question that always goes along with that, was it worth it? the latest gallup poll finds
that a majority of americans, 53%, say sending u.s. troops to fight in iraq was a mistake. 42% agree with the decision to send our troops. cnn's martin savage was in the front lines of the invasion. he was traveling with the marines and he recently caught up with some of these he met way back when. >> fire in the hole! >> reporter: when you're embedded, you get close to war. >> it's getting hot. let's go! >> reporter: you also get close to the war fighters. i was with the first battalion 7th marine. and ten years later, i'm out to find the men of cat team red. the last time i saw tony riddle, he was leading a team of marines and too young to buy a beer. now he's 31 and out of the corps. his home is decorated with war mementos, including commendations for valor. >> i think remember this event.
>> reporter: it stands out, because i could have gotten killed in that ambush. >> go, go! >> reporter: we have better memories. his daughter, taylor, was born while we were in iraq. now she's nearly 10. but tony's marriage was a casualty of war. and relationships since haven't fared much better. >> the same tony that went over there didn't return, at all. >> reporter: he struggles with ptsd and is still bothered by memories, like the two iraqi girls killed by an artillery strike tony called in to protect his marines. >> reporter: that stuff still haunts you? >> bad. i have nightmares of that particular one a lot. and in the dreams, they're asking, why? >> reporter: frustrated with the veterans administration, tony went to college and will soon have a degree in psychology, which he plans to use to help vets. >> i've been there, i've seen it, i know exactly what you're dealing with. >> reporter: next stop was aspen, colorado, where on a ski
lift, i caught up with casey owens. >> i can't be more happier than to look out here and just be like, gosh, you know, god gave me a gift. >> reporter: casey moved here right after he started skiing, which was right after an iraqi land mine claimed both legs on his second deployment. >> reporter: so you ski down -- >> oh, yeah, this is one of my favorite runs, coming underneath the gondola. >> reporter: he also runs and competes in a number of sports. he's an inspiration to a lot of o fo folks and will tell you without hesitation life is good. >> i have my bad days and good days, but when i'm having my good days, i definitely know i'm lucky to be alive and to experience this. you know? i got to at age 22 to lead men into combat. and for a marine, that's the greatest honor. >> reporter: but for the really bad days, harold, his special needs dog, calms his panic attacks and wakes him from
nightmares. they are inseparable. my last stop was a beer garden in bakersfield, california, where i listened to evan morgan play a song he wrote about the war. ♪ yeah, today i was in a combat zone ♪ >> reporter: casey had been the first casualty for cat team read. six months later, it was evan's turn. an ied blast. >> i remember being pulled out of the vehicle and being laid on the ground. >> reporter: both men suffered similar injuries, but evan was also left half blind. he dreaded the conversation with his then-fiancee from his hospital bed. >> i said, you know, if you want to -- not leave, i don't think i said leave, but if you want to kind of move on, then you can. i would understand. >> reporter: jillian told him it wasn't his legs she'd fallen in love with. they married in the hospital chapel and today have two kids. life's not perfect, but evan knows, it's not bad either. >> i'm always thinking that there's someone out there in the world that has it worse than me and there's someone out there
that's doing better than me. and i try to keep that in mind day to day and try to live my life accordingly. >> reporter: and you're okay with that? >> yeah. yeah, i'm okay with it. i'm happy. >> reporter: a decade after we all went to war, it would be wrong to say that tony, casey and evan are at peace, but deep inside themselves, they have managed to at least call a truce. martin savage, cnn. >> an undeclared war, an undeclared war, costing the lives of thousands of americans, tens of thousands of iraqis, billions of dollars gone. can anyone be tried for this? should anyone be tried for this? you might be surprised to hear what one of the world's leading war crimes experts and peace activists has to say about all of this. [ anouncer ] ihop is in time square to compare
the bush administration went to war in iraq ten years ago today for two main reasons. they claimed that saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction and could possibly use them against the united states and that saddam hussein was involved with al qaeda prior to the 9/11 attacks. well, today we know both of those claims proved to be false. since the war, there have been demands that mr. bush and members of his administration, including former vice president dick cheney, former defense secretary, donald rumsfeld, and george tennette be tried for war crimes. but can they be or should they be? there is one very famous man who says yes. bishop desmond tutu, a nobel peace prize winner, and the a h archbishop of south africa says they should be tried. our lisa bloom is here with me and is an expert on the
international criminal court. there are so many issues, lisa, when it comes to this kind of a thing. it is a sticky issue, it is a difficult issue, but a lot of people think, why hasn't there been any litigation? >> and when you think of it more broadly, there have been a number of world leaders who have been prosecuted in international criminal courts. in south africa, which had the apartheid regime, no one was prosecuted, ironically, they had the truth and reconciliation commission, which encouraged everyone, essentially, to talk to each other in commissions, acknowledge responsibility, and forgive. and yet bishop tutu, a very respected world leader, is now calling on president bush to be prosecuted. >> so we are not signatories here in the united states of the international criminal court, and for good reason, americans don't want to be prosecuted in criminal court. we don't want our soldiers hauled off of battlefields and thrown into international criminal court. >> but isn't that interesting, because if we want others to be held accountable for war crimes, why shouldn't we accept
jurisdiction of the same court. >> isn't it a fair defense to say, it was a mistake. it was not intentional, it was not reckless. aren't these fair defenses, if this were, in fact, the case. >> think of it this way, if someone invaded our country based on false premises and murdered 100,000 to a million of our people, as we are accused of doing in iraq, depending on whose estimate we believe, would we be so sanguine? would we be so forgiving? >> well, someone did come to our country and murdered 4,000 people and we weren't sanguine, we were very offended. and we didn't go to court, we want to war. >> i just returned from a trip to vietnam. in vietnam, there is an american war crimes museum, where you can look at all of the terrible things that the united states did, like dropping agent orange in vietnam. there are many countries in the world where we are not welcome. and americans are welcomed in vietnam, but what we did there is remembered and it's acknowledged. and i think the same thing is
going to happen in iraq. >> i think it's also critical to say to our audience that the international criminal court can prosecute for genocide, for war crimes, for crimes against humanity, but this incursion, this action in iraq is actually qualified as a crime of aggression and that's not covered. so unfortunately, it just can't be. i have to leave it there, but it is such a somber occasion and i'm glad you were here to mark it on the legal side of it all, lisa bloom, thank you. ten shots, ten, in the span of six months, firing a gun ten times in six minutes, and it's this woman who did it, admittedly. she is on trial for shooting and killing someone. it was her own grandson. but the question to the jury is, was it out of fear or was it out of anger? they're deciding that right now. . discover nectresse™. the 100%-natural no-calorie sweetener made from the goodness of fruit. nectresse™. sweetness naturally.
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a jury, deliberating in suburban detroit. but it is not what the jury is deciding. the issue they're deciding is why. why 75-year-old sandra lane, seen here in court, grabbed her handgun and opened fire on her grandson, 17-year-old jonathan hoffman. it happened in the home that they shared last may. that teenager had just moved in a few months earlier when his parents moved to arizona. in two days of testimony last week, lane said that jonathan was violent and very tough to sort of gauge and that she was terrified when she acted to save her own life. >> did he strike you? >> in the head. >> sorry? >> in the head. >> in the head area? well, wants? how does that happen, when he kicks you or strikes you? >> i just shot the gun.
>> how many times did you shoot the gun? >> i don't know. i think -- i don't know. >> the prosecution knows the answer to that question. sandra layne shot the gun ten times over a course of six minutes. she hit her grandson six times. in self-defense, she says that hoffman spent much of those six minutes on the phone with 911, but listen to the call. >> 911, what's your emergency? >> i've just been shot. >> what? >> i've just been shot. >> where are you at? okay, how did you get shot? who shot you? >> my grandma shot me. >> your grandpa or grandfather shot you? >> my grandma. i'm going to die. >> well, if that person were attacking you and you shot him in fear of your life, you might stop shooting at that point when you hear those words, but hoffman's grandmother did not
stop. she was not done with him yet. 2 1/2 minutes later came this cal call. >> i just got shot again. help me! >> you got shot again? are they still there? >> someone get help now! now! i need help now! >> are they still there? >> please help. >> hoffman did get help. paramedics did get there. they sped there and they got him to a hospital and that's exactly where he died, in the hospital. it's time now to call in the best of the bench on this case. lisa bloom joins me again with glenda hatchett, a judge. i want to preface this by saying that this young teenager did have a past. he was involved with juvenile justice and there was a probation issue and there had been difficult times in this household. so knowing that background, which the jury does know, judge hatchett, is this going to be a really tough case for this jury to see as self-defense, when you hear those tapes and you know
the timing of this crime? >> yes, yes. i mean, she's already shot him. he's on the phone with 911. what's troubling about this, ashleigh, is that the police didn't have any indications that she had been wounded. so if he attacked her, it would be -- it would help her credibility if she showed some wounds. and also, i would be curious about the toxicology report, whether he was on drugs at the time of this incident. but when you keep shooting him over and over again, after he's on 911, after he calls again, it is going to be very hard, i think, to make out -- >> judge, sometimes i think that almost adds to the defense, like they just lose it. lisa bloom, weigh in on this, if you will. i look at that grandma, there's 75 and there's 75. some 75s are not other 575s. but this 75, when you see her on the stand, to me, she looks
extremely sympathetic, and jurors don't miss this stuff. >> we believe she's got the granny glasses and she's got the grey hair in a bun. i don't know if that's what she ordinarily looks like. it's certainly the right look in this courtroom. my heart goes out to her. when i hear her staying on the stand, i don't know. i don't know how many times i shot him, i think that's a rare moment of honesty in an american courtroom. she's not making up excuses. she's not lying. she doesn't call in a high-priced defense expert to say she's got memory loss, right? so i'm very sympathetic to her. on the other hand, the law is about preserving human life, especially the life of a minor child, even a troubled young man. when he's shot and he's down, and he's called 911, i don't see any reason to continue to shoot him. so i think she's probably going to be found guilty, but i would expect a very light sentence, maybe probation, parole, monitored supervision. i don't think she's probably a threat to human life. >> and i feel as though that would be one of these cases where it is a long deliberation. those jurors are going to have a really tough time. don't forget, there is a dead child, as lisa just put, in this
case. thank you to you both. do appreciate your insight in this case as well. a convicted killer wearing a t-shirt. take a look. it says, killer." he's sitting in a courtroom, waiting to find out what the judge will sentence him for killing. good idea? bad idea? you'll find out, in a moment. anncr: and many of the tornado's victims are... without homes tonight. girl: first, i saw it on cable. then i read about it online. i found out how to help. i downloaded the info.
i spoke up... and told my friends... and they told their friends... and together, we made a difference. anncr: and tornado relief has been pouring in from... across the country. girl: we might be hundreds of miles apart... but because we're connected, it's like we're all neighbors. but that doesn't mean i don't want to make money.stor. i love making money. i try to be smart with my investments. i also try to keep my costs down. what's your plan? ishares. low cost and tax efficient. find out why nine out of ten large professional investors choose ishares for their etfs. ishares by blackrock. call 1-800-ishares for a prospectus which includes investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. read and consider it carefully before investing. risk includes possible loss of principal. if you have high cholesterol, here's some information that may be worth looking into. in a clinical trial versus lipitor, crestor got more high-risk patients' bad cholesterol
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a young man by the name of t.j. lane sentenced to flif prison without parole. he will be there forever. he will not leave that prison unless he's in a box because he killed three students and wounded three others in ohio last year. here's what he wore to his sentencing. a white t-shirt emblazoned with the word "killer" in handwriting. family members of the victims were able to give impact statements in court today, even addressing lane's parents who one woman flat out called his, quote, sperm and egg donor. want to bring back my legal analysts, lisa bloom, and glenda hatchett a former juvenile court judge. the first question, ladies, how could this lawyer allow this to happen? i'm sure the lawyer knew nothing about it. he unbuttoned his shirt and opened it up for everyone to see. judge hatchett, a judge seeing
that can do a lot of things. what can a judge do or does it make a difference by this point? >> i don't know that it makes a big difference. if he had been in my courtroom i would have ordered him to put the shirt back on. his lawyer could have said, put your shirt back on. this is just -- it's almost an insult to the victims. >> almost? >> it is. is. it is. it is an absolute horrible insult to the victims' family. you're going to sit there with "killer "s across your shirt and they're grieving, people who survived, lives will be changed forever, outrageous. >> can i tell you, this wasn't the end of it, judge. he didn't just wear the t-shirt. he gave the middle finger to the courtroom and he also used profanity swearing at the courtroom. lisa bloom, when you plead, three counts of aggravated murder and two counts of attempted aggravated murder, and one count of felonious assault,
ostensibly you've made a bargain for a particular sentence. it's not like you can do anything more than life without the possibility of parole. this kid has nothing to lose, did he? >> right. in the u.s. juveniles cannot get the death penalty. he's got the maximum. you can't fix stupid. make you can't fix mean. we can thank our lucky stars he's going away for life without parole. this is a sociopathic young man who has no concern about the damage that he's continuing to cause to victims' family. >> one thing you can fix, you can fix evil by locking them away. t.j. lane, i'm here to say with my panel, good-bye and good riddan riddance. thank you for that. stay with us. we're back after the break. [ female announcer ] born from the sweet monk fruit, something this delicious could only come from nature. discover nectresse™. the 100%-natural no-calorie sweetener made from the goodness of fruit. nectresse™. sweetness naturally.
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moments from now in chicago, a funeral is to be held for a 6-month-old girl. she was in her father's lap when she was shot as they sat in a parked minivan. her dad was also shot. he was changing her diaper at the time. he survived the attack. police believe he was the target of the attack and not the baby. thank you for watching, everyone. it's good to have you with us. we're flat out of time. "around the world" is next.