tv Piers Morgan Live CNN March 20, 2013 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT
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tonight, outrage. 2,793 americans dead in gun violence since newtown. and harry reid says this about the assault weapons ban. >> i'm not going to try to put something on the floor that won't succeed. i think the worst of all worlds would be to bring something to the floor, and it dies there. >> tonight my guests are five men who have seen the tragic toll of guns up close. they're demanding change. i talked to police chiefs from newtown and all around the area about what they saw on that tragic day and what it will take to keep america's children safe from further massacres. plus, president obama
and israel. with tensions rising throughout the region, is iran now the greatest threat? >> our policy is to prevent iran from acquiring a nuclear weapon. >> will syria's civil war spill over? >> assad's regime must understand they will be held accountable for the use of chemical weapons or their transfer to terrorists. >> i'll ask the president's one-time middle east peacemaker, george mitchell, is now the time to kiss and make up? this is "piers morgan live." you know i'm passionate about the issue of guns in america. you've heard a lot of heated debate on this show on both sides. well, tonight, i'm going to talk to five men who probably know more than most of us about guns and in particular the aftermath of the acrossty of newtown. they're police chiefs in and around newtown. all of them having experience and trauma of that terrible day at sandy hook elementary school. sadly, the toll of guns doesn't end there. colorado's prison chief tom clements was gunned down in the doorway of his home last
night, just hours before governor john hickenlooper signed new gun control legislation. we'll be taking all of that in a few minutes. plus, something special tonight. we conduct an informal account of u.s. senators asking whether or not they would have supported dianne feinstein's proposed ban on assault weapons. the numbers are not official and in some cases the answer wasn't quite as simple as a yes or no but we will give you those results in a few moments. i now want to turn to my panel of police chiefs in newtown, and the surrounding area, chief michael kehe, chief douglas fuchs, chief joseph gaudett, chief montgomery of brookfield, patrick ridenhour of stratford. first i'll read the names of the 35 senators who so far have told us that they oppose senator feinstein's assault weapons bill. it's important to know who they are. senators alexander, ayotte, baucus, begich, boozman, burr, coburn, cochran, crapo, cruz,
donnelly, enzi, flake, graham, grassley, hatch, heitkamp, hoeven, inhofe, isakson, johanns, johnson, king, lee, manchin, lee, mccain, risch, roberts, rubio, shelby, wicker. and we have three late responses of no from landreau, murkowski and murray. those are the 35 senators so far who have told us that, no, they oppose senator feinstein's proposed bill to ban assault weapons. 28 senators said yes, they agree with her and support it. 34 no responses so far. and 3 said they had no position. we're going to chase the 34 no responses and the 3 who say no position. and we'll come back on friday, give them enough time to think
about their response so we can get a very firm idea of why this assault weapons ban has apparently got no chance of getting passed in the senate. you as the american people have a right to know what these senators believe, and i intend to get it out of them. let's turn now to the police chiefs. i can't think of five better people to talk to about what happened ever since just over three months ago now. let me start with you, if i may, chief kehoe, because you had the -- i don't even think there are the words to describe the experience of what you must have gone through that day. you had to walk into that school and find the bodies of 26 people, including 20 young schoolchildren between 6 and 7 years old who had been slaughtered by adam lanza and his ar-15 assault rifle. take me back to that day. for those who perhaps have already moved on, who don't think it was a tipping point in this debate, what did you see that day, what do you feel about it now? what do you think needs to be done?
>> well, it was a horrific day. there's no doubt about it. it was a horrific day for so many. for not only the families who we really do cherish, but it was a horrific day for our community and for the nation as a whole. that day will be etched in my mind, will forever change me. and i think that as i reflect today about that day, as much as i try to forget about it, i just can't. and i know that will give me the energy to move forward and to hopefully make change in our society that we need. >> michael moore, the filmmaker, was on my show last night and got very passionate and emotional as many of the debates on the show have been since sandy hook. he believes that the only way the american people will feel compelled to force their political powers in washington to do anything about this is to perhaps see the pictures of the bodies of these children. and he cited the example in the
race battles and in vietnam where imagery, however horrific, has changed american public opinion. you saw not just pictures, you saw what happened there. do you think that there's any merit to that argument? do you think that if america had seen what you saw there would be any doubt about banning assault weapons? >> i think it may help. but law enforcement's position from day one has been to protect the families. and they have suffered enough. and to release some pictures like that may make them suffer more. and we have to talk about the families collectively. we just can't think of one, maybe, and say it's okay and we have 19 or 20 or 25 others that don't feel it's okay. i don't think that's going to work either. so i don't think we're ever going to get the full range of acceptance to releasing pictures. but i think everybody can understand, as you aptly put, the slaughter that an ar-15 can do a 6-year-old or a 7-year-old.
we don't need pictures to know that. i think in our own minds, we can certainly imagine it. and that should be our driving force. >> chief fuchs, you had, i think, two children who attended sandy hook school. they no longer attend the school. they attend another newtown school, just from age point of view. for you it must have been a very, very harrowing experience again, simply because this could have been your children. >> it was. and to be honest, when i was responding, we didn't know at first to which school we were responding. we heard the radio calls coming over the air. immediately my first reaction was it's going to be the high school. and i have a child at the high school. and that's where i thought i was heading. when i heard it was an elementary school, i don't think it ever really processed that i was going into a school where the kids who would be that young who were going to be affected by this. >> there's lots of debate going on about what the best response should be.
the latest polls suggest that 57% of americans are in favor of a national ban on the sale of assault weapons. and on party lines, 77% of those were democrats, and yet it's the democratic senators who are leading the charge, perhaps, in preventing an assault weapons ban coming in. you, i believe, are supportive of an assault weapons ban. why is it so important that there should be one? >> you know, i heard the president say they deserve a vote. and he was speaking about the newtown families. i've heard others say they deserve a voice. i'd like to suggest that we deserve a chance. we in law enforcement know that when an active shooter reloads, that's an opportunity for us to move. that's an opportunity for us to try to neutralize that threat. we in law enforcement know that when an active shooter has to reload, that's an opportunity for people in public to try to overpower that individual and try to get away. and we in law enforcement know that in a school setting, when
an active shooter has to reload, that's an opportunity or that's a chance for our kids to run. and i really believe that we deserve that chance. >> and with adam lanza, he had taken enough ammunition to kill more than 600 children, which would have taken out i think the entire school. he just in the end could feel law enforcement arriving and took his own life. if they hadn't got there in time, he could have killed many, many more. >> we know that our presence makes a difference. our presence in and around schools either deters it or when we show up, usually the individual chooses to take their own life rather than challenge us. so we know that makes a difference. but for the law enforcement officers going into that environment, having to deal with someone with a 30, 40, 50-round magazine, that puts them in needless harm's way. so by eliminating that capacity, people still have the right to fire those weapons. we just have a better opportunity, a better chance, to really neutralize that threat. >> chief gaudett, you live in newtown, i believe. >> i do.
>> the argument -- you would have heard this many times -- is that any attempt to prohibit the sale of ar-15s, one of the most popular rifles in the country, is an assault on the second amendment rights of americans. what do you say to that? >> i respect the second amendment. i believe that people should have the right to own weapons. i think that the assault weapon in particular is a weapon of war. and i don't believe necessarily that anyone, other than police or military, should own a weapon like that. it puts my people in danger and great jeopardy. it puts the citizenry in great jeopardy. i reject the notion that it's a hunting rifle, a sporting rifle. i believe it's a weapon of war and it's intended to kill as many people as efficiently and effectively as possible. >> chief montgomery and chief ridenhour, interestingly, chief montgomery, in your case, you're a brookfield police chief, incredibly highly decorated vietnam -- two purple hearts, am i right? >> yes, sir.
>> nobody needs to tell you about guns or, indeed, the military comparison. and yet both of you, i think, do not support an assault weapons ban. explain to me why with all your experience you don't think it would be effective. >> i think what doug mentioned regarding the ability to fire 30, 50 rounds at a clip is what we want to inhibit. we want to make sure that that doesn't occur, and i think by limiting the magazine rounds, that resolves at least one issue. one of the things that bothers me is that when you have a tragedy like this, people focus on one particular element. and really, it's a far more holistic approach to what ails this country right now with the violence you see, the gun violence, the violent videos. and that's why when you talk to mike about pictures being shown, i would venture to say kids have
seen so much violence via tv, video games, they have become immune to it. and that's been documented. so that's a problem. i think that we as a society have to change. >> chief ridenhour, the other elements of this involve universal background checks. we discussed the magazine sizes. of the three planks, really, of what dianne feinstein is trying to push through, assault weapons, background checks, and the magazine, which do you feel strongest about? >> background checks. >> why? >> i think the background checks are very important, not only for the individuals that are trying to possess weapons, but also to find out more about what's going on in their homes. i mean, when you look at this situation, apparently the mother was a law-abiding citizen who did have proper permits to have weaponry. but there was issues within the home, and her son got ahold of these weapons. so i -- >> by the way, adam lanza, until
he committed this atrocity, was also a law-abiding citizen. >> yes. >> see, my problem with this is an argument for the gun lobby, f if you like, they -- they keep saying what about the law-abiding gun owners? his mother was and actually he was until he did this. he didn't have a criminal record. but what would have picked him up? a loner living with his mother. i don't know how you would pick him up. all you can do, i would argue, with great respect to you guys, who oppose the assault weapons ban, you've got to make it as difficult as possible for people like adam lanza out there -- now, there was one -- two days ago in florida who was about to shoot up a university. again, a misfit, a loner. somebody, though, who was able to acquire 1,000 rounds of ammunition, assault weapons, handguns, educational dvds to teach him how to use this stuff. this cannot be right in a civilized society. >> well, first of all, piers, i'd like to, first of all say, it's not that i oppose the ban. what i do support is a more
healthy debate about the ban, and whatever our legislature, whether it's state or federal, comes out with, i will support. i'm not a gun person, personally. but i do believe that all sides of the issue need to be focused on and then there's other issues that need to be addressed also, mental health checks, access for us. that would be part of the background process, having mental health checks to find out if there's issues within the home, knowing who has these types of weapons. another thing that concerns me is when someone does die who does have weapons, but we're not notified that there are weapons in the home. who takes possession of those weapons for the short term until it's decided who they should go to? >> right. >> then they end up on the streets. so those are the things that i'm concerned about. and i just think that we have to have a really thorough debate about the issue. >> i thoroughly agree with that. and this is a very constructive one, by the way, particularly that you do not all agree. i think fascinating.
stay where you are, chiefs. we'll come back with a colorado sheriff who is joining us, says he won't enforce new laws in his state requiring universal background checks. but as to senator feinstein's bill, 34 haven't responded as yet. three have no position. as we go to the break. here are the 28 in the senate who have come out in support of the bill to us, to our show. and just one note. we're going to keep going back to those who haven't responded and we'll update you probably on friday, give them enough time to work out what they want to tell us. [ coughs ] [ angry gibberish ] i took something for my sinuses, but i still have this cough.
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must pay for them themselves and limiting rounds to 15 rounds. this sheriff says he won't enforce these laws and is here to tell me why. also with me our expert panel, five police chiefs from the newtown area. welcome, sheriff. tell me why you are not going to implement these laws. >> well, good evening, mr. morgan. i believe that the laws as they are written are basically unenforceable, and that philosophy is viewed by about 57 of colorado's 62 elected sheriffs. i just think that, for instance, there's no way for me tonow that a magazine is in possession of an individual we come in contact, was acquired before or after the ban. and i don't believe that a magazine capacity limitation will solve the problems we're facing with just about 15 minutes of practice, sir, i could have you where you're
doing a magazine exchange in about two seconds. so the mass shooters could still fire the same number of rounds with only a limited extra number of seconds. >> right. but with respect, mr. sheriff, you're in a state, which has just brought in these laws. and one of the reasons that they brought them in was what happened at that movie theater in aurora in colorado where a deranged young man called holmes walked in and had four weapons, including assault rifles, and including 100 bullet magazines. now, you can't tell me that he could not have been stopped earlier if he hadn't had a magazine with 100 bullets in it, and that's the point of this, isn't it? >> well, certainly on the surface, it is. but, again, let's say he had just had ten-round magazines. he's making magazine exchanges in a matter of two seconds, again, with just a little bit of practice. i don't know -- and, again, you know, i can't monday morning quarterback that.
so i don't know what the crowd at the theater was doing. i got the impression they were simply trying to take cover or flee and didn't seem to be concerned about stopping the shooter. >> okay. well, let me go to chief kehoe. you've heard this. this is to me an extraordinary situation where you have a state that suffered the single-worst shooting by one shooter in terms of hitting people. he hit 70 people and killed 12 of them. in american history, and as a result, they brought in -- and i applaud them for doing this. they brought in some to me obvious new laws to try and do something about this. and you've got a sheriff that's saying not only he, but the vast majority of the sheriffs in the state want nothing to do with it. >> yeah. i think what sheriff is saying is that he feels the law is unenforceable as opposed to he's not going to enforce the law. i think there is a distinction there. i don't think as law enforcement officials -- >> let me clarify that. sheriff, are you saying you're not going to even try and enforce the law? >> mr. morgan, again, i don't think that there's any ability
for i or my officers or other officers around the state to determine if a magazine that comes into our inspection was acquired before or after the ban. >> i understand that. i heard that. >> but as the chief pointed -- >> but to clarify, because the chief has raised this as a question, you are not even going to try then to enforce this law. you don't think it's workable at all. >> that is correct. >> okay. so you have a sheriff there, and he says he represents the vast majority of sheriffs who is not even going to implement this. these new laws are, therefore, rendered almost instantly meaningless in a state that had the aurora theater massacre. i mean, you may as well give up. i mean, this is the front page of "the new york daily news." shame on us, it says. with the pictures of these children that you saw, you saw their slaughtered bodies. there's got to be a better response than just sheriffs all over america saying, nope. i'm not going to do anything. >> i'm wondering -- again, i'm not aware of the colorado laws
that were passed today or whenever they were signed into law, but maybe what needs to be is they need to relook at that and maybe they need some input from the sheriffs to make the laws enforceable. and one that certainly all officers can enforce instead of having to think about what's the interpretation of the law. >> chief fuchs, we talked about magazine sizes. at sandy hook, had he had a 100-bullet magazine, he could have killed a lot more in the same period of time, right? >> and you're right. >> this is an inarguable fact. is that right? >> there's two issues, one is one my colleague in colorado is speaking about. that two seconds makes a difference. that two seconds is an opportunity. that two seconds is a chance. and we know that in law enforcement. that protects civilians and that certainly protects our officers and gives them a better or fighting chance when in harm's way. i think the other point, as chief kehoe raises, if that law
is enforceable, we as chief law enforcement officers of a county or municipality, we take an oath to uphold the law. >> that's what i was going to ask you, sheriff. i mean, you have a duty. it's not really your decision, is it? you have a duty, if this is the law of the state of colorado, you're a sheriff, you have a sworn duty to try and uphold that law. and i would also like you to answer the point, if it saves one life of one child in a future mass shooting in your state, even in the area that you're the sheriff, isn't it worth it? >> if i thought that was the fact, yes, sir. i don't think that's the case. >> you've just heard a police chief in connecticut say it's an inarguable fact. >> i did. >> clearly it is. if you have to spend a few seconds changing clips, you have a chance. you have a chance to apprehend that person. you have a chance to try and save life. that's the point of this -- of this magazine reduction law. that's the point of it. >> yes, sir, it is. i just don't agree with it.
>> and i respect that. but what i'm asking you is, do you not think if it could save one life, it's worth doing? what is the down side? who gets hurt if you bring in a 15-round maximum? who is offended by that? hunters and sports shooters don't need anything more than that. that's not hunting. who is going to miss 30, 40, 50-bullet magazines? >> i think there's a major concern, which i concur with, that this it is based on looking at history for the last 100 years, is that proverbial foot in the door, that it's a 15-round magazine today, it's a 10-round magazine tomorrow and a no magazine a year from now. >> chief, now i can see -- chief, you're shaking your head. what do you say to that? >> i say that it's our responsibility to enforce the law, whatever it is. and it's not for us to really look at the reasons behind it.
we have elected officials who give us laws, give us mandates to enforce, and that's what we're supposed to do. >> and this idea that it may be a slippery slope to further reductions, you know, you can cross that bridge when you come to it. but, you know, as "the daily news" front page says, shame on america if the answer is nothing. surely. i'm so grateful to you all. thank you all for coming in. you've come in together, and you've made a series of excellent points. this debate will continue to rage. sheriff, i appreciate you coming on. i know that you are aware of my position on this and i respect your opinion. i don't agree with it. you don't agree with mine. but we will agree to defer, and i do appreciate you taking the time to come on. >> mr. morgan, thank you. coming up next, civil war in syria. nuclear threat in iran. will president obama's visit to israel calm the storm in the middle east? let's bing it on. [fight bell: ding, ding] how many here are google users? what if i was to tell you that you would actually like bing way more than google when it came to the results?
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better than we are. >> a joke to start a symbolic and historic visit. he met with prime minister netanyahu and called the u.s. and the jewish state unbreakable. mr. obama also covered big foreign policy issues including the iranian threat and the civil war in syria. cnn's john king is live in jerusalem with the latest. john, all seemed very matey and chummy. but underneath all that, what is the reality of the state of the relationship between america and israel right now? >> reporter: there's no question, piers, it's been obvious to the world, not just to these two leaders, they've had a frosty and unfriendly relationship. president obama is left of center, he believes that prime minister netanyahu has said some things he finds insulting or didn't like. prime minister netanyahu right of center, supported romney in the last presidential election, has at times stopped at president obama, my language, not his quote, doesn't get it about the security of israel, but there's no question. look, both of these guys just won elections.
they are in the words of a top american official the other day, stuck with each other. and it's very crystal clear today, both of them have decided to try to turn a new page. are they going to be best friends, i think not. but are they going to be better friends? today it appeared they're going to at least try at that. and, you know, that makes a difference. when you're dealing with the iran nuclear crisis, the syria civil crisis, the question of whether you can get the palestinians and the israelis back on the table. if they like each other a bit more, it helps when things get difficult. and that's a difficult list. >> people assume that iran may be overshadowing this trip, in a sense, syria has overtaken even iran because of the suggestion that chemical weapons have been used, both sides trying to blame the other side. what do we really know about what may have happened here? >> reporter: not much, which is part of the issue. the president used some very muscular language today at that press conference with the prime minister, saying it would be a game-changer if he sees conclusive evidence that the regime used chemical weapons against its own people. now he didn't specify how the game would change.
does that mean any use of the united states' military? the president has been very reluctant to do that and i don't know anybody in the administration talking about that. does it just mean pushing for war crimes tribunals, does it mean going back to the united nations? i don't know what purpose that would serve. so we don't know what he means. but he did say he will look at the facts and see what happens. and one of the -- part of the assistance he will get, excuse me, is from the israeli military. i'm in jerusalem tonight, piers. you know, the united states is about 6,000 miles from syria. i'm 135 miles from damascus. and so the israelis have a history of having better intelligence, if you will, of that neighborhood. >> right, john stay with me if you can for a moment. i'm going to bring in george mitchell, a former u.s. special envoy to the middle east. mr. mitchell, when you see what's going on here, what is your overview of the region in totality, because it used to be a case, if you solved the israel/palestine problem, everything would be so much easier. now there is so much tension all over the region, it's no longer just about israel and palestine,
is it? >> no, it isn't. that's an important element, but there are many intersecting conflicts in the region, all of which affect each other. you mentioned several of them. syria, the iranian quest for a nuclear weapon, the historic antagonism between the persian iranians and the arab countries. the historic divide within islam between sunni and shia, which began way back from the succession of the prophet -- to the prophet mohammed. so there are many intersecting conflicts, but i will say that a resolution of the israeli/palestinian conflicts, while not the only problem, will help in dealing with several of the others. it will help israel to have to change from what it now does as building walls all around it to establish normalization in the region, which i think would be very important and a positive step for the people in society of israel. so the president really, i
think, is trying to assure or reach three audiences, the people of israel, wherefore uncommitted to israel's security, absolutely committed. the palestinians, we want a palestinian state, a two-state solution. and others in the region, friend and foe alike, that the united states is in the region to stay, and we're not pulling out any time soon. >> john king, the one thing we didn't hear about today was settlements. why is that, and is that going to be discussed over the next couple of days? >> reporter: well, it will be discussed in the morning. you can be certain, piers, when president obama goes to see the palestinian leader mahmoud abbas in ramallah, his top complaint is going to be, i'm not coming back to the bargaining table until israel stops building settlements in the west bank. and i'm interested in senator mitchell's views on this. i was in two israeli settlements. there is construction on both of those settlements right now. not major expansions but new subdivisions.
and the israeli government is debating whether to give the green light for a major new settlement on a parcel called e-1. and president obama did not mention settlements. there are a couple opportunities today where he could have turned to his counterpart and said, you must stop. he has said that in the past. i'm sure it came up in the private conversation. but the president decided not to pick a public fight with the prime minister. but that is one of the huge obstacles to getting the palestinians back to the bargaining table. >> right. senator mitchell, i mean, you heard what john said there. how crucial is this going to be, this part of the debate? >> yeah. it's a very important part of it. let's be clear. every american president since israel was created has opposed israeli settlement construction. democrat and republican alike. no president has ever supported continued expansion of settlements. at the same time, we in israel are close friends and allies. we don't agree on every issue. and that's one on which we disagree. i think john is correct. i'm certain the president has raised it in private. he certainly will hear it from
the palestinians. my own view is, the best thing everybody can do is get into negotiations and try to resolve all of the issues, including settlements. >> finally, senator, let me switch quickly to guns, if i may because yesterday we saw harry reid basically kiboshing any attempt for dianne feinstein's assault weapons ban to be included on this gun control bill. you were voted the most respected man in the senate many times in your career there. what do you make of this? i mean, do you not think that they should at the very least be pushing forward to a vote so everyone can see who is in favor and who is against? >> i don't know all of the issues, because i don't follow them in nearly as much detail as when i myself was there. but i was senate majority leader when senator feinstein pushed the assault weapons ban, and i helped her do so and voted for it. i thought it made sense then. i think it makes sense now. but i think as you are finding
out, piers, in your questioning of all senators, there is not even a majority for it, let alone the 60 votes who would be necessary in the senate to pass it. >> well -- >> so when you face -- >> what i'm finding, to clarify, we've got about 35 who have said yes, we oppose it. but there's at least the same again who are at the moment not responding. and that in itself, i think, speaks volumes. i think some of them do not want to be exposed for perhaps putting their political careers over their principle. >> well, there's absolutely no doubt about that. and they're letting harry reid know that. the leader, one of his functions and tasks is to be a lightning rod and take the heat for others. and there's no doubt that harry reid has been told by many senators, don't bring it to a vote. you don't have the votes, and so what point will be served then, and you're going to hurt me in my next election. that's a reality that's occurred for the 225 years that the united states senate has existed or whatever the length of time
is. nothing new about that, piers. but you're also finding out, you've got 28 votes for, 35 votes against. and i think that the rest of the votes you get to the extent that you can get a decision, will be probably even more weighted against. and so i think it's a very tough situation for all concerned. as i said, i don't know all the details. my own view is, i think an -- i believe an assault weapons ban is justified and would serve a useful purpose. to the argument made earlier on your show about the camel's nose under the tent or the slippery slope if you limit the magazines to 15 rounds now, then it will be 10, then it will be 5, then it will be none. the fact is, of course, we have all kinds of laws prohibiting certain weapons. you can't go out and buy a bazooka. >> right. >> you can't go out and buy a machine gun.
you can't go out and buy a bomb. and so the reality is, if you bought that argument, you would say, open it all up. let them -- let's have any weapon being purchased. that can't be the case. i mean, you have to make a rational decision based on the circumstances which exist at that time. will a measure help or hurt? that's the judgment. there are good people on both sides of the issue. i think, though, it won't pass. that's pretty clear. >> senator mitchell and john king, thank you both very much indeed. >> thank you. coming next, alan desk wit joins me talking about the president's trip to israel. whether there is any chance for a peace settlement. my wife takecentrum silver. i' been on the fence abo it.
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talking about a lasting peace is one thing. making it happen for israel and the palestinians is another. can the president do what others have not? we have alan desk wit, attorney and author and president of the arab-american institute and author of "arab voices." start with you, alan desk wit, will israel and arab nations ever live in peace? yes, 32%. no, 66%. very depressing. what is a way through this? are you remotely optimistic? >> i am very optimistic. it depends what you mean by peace.
will there ever be a loving peace like between the united states and canada, unlikely. but will there be an end of war the way there is with egypt and the way there is with jordan and perhaps realistically with some other surrounding countries, yes. the key is to start the negotiations now. i agree completely with senator george mitchell. what president abbas and the palestinian authority is saying is i'm not going to come to the bargaining table unless you do "a," "b" and "c." he's not in a position to make those kinds of demands. he wants land, he wants estate. he has to sit down to negotiate. i recently met with him and i made a proposal. i said, how about you sit down, begin the negotiations, and then israel will start a freeze, and then you'll negotiate borders. he seemed to agree with that. netanyahu seems to be agreeing with that. there is an opening for peace. i hope the president will try to bring them closer together. look, the palestinians had an opportunity to have a state, 2000, 2001. arafat turned it down. prime minister olmert offered
them even more in 2007. no response. the ball is clearly in the palestinian court. >> okay. >> they must come to the negotiating table. >> let's go to james zogby. the ball is in the palestinian court. do you agree with that? >> no, i don't. i think that's a very serious exaggeration of the leverage palestinians have. they really have none in this case. and they looked to the u.s. president to balance the scale. at this point, abbas has a u.n. resolution is about the only thing he has in his camp. he has no -- he's become a dependency, dependent upon foreign aid to sustain an ever-dwindling authority. they have become a police force governing the terrorists. alan, let me finish. they have become a police force governing the territories. but they've gotten no payment back. and this issue is bigger than the west bank. it's about palestinian nationhood, it's about the right of palestinians to have the same
respect as a nation that israel demands for itself. and, frankly, that's not on the table. i would say to you that what the u.s. has to do, when the president is done with this trip, come back, hopefully earning the confidence of the israeli people, trying to restore some confidence on the palestinian side, which is lost right now and then refashion a middle east peace initiative that gives some hope to both sides. right now palestinians don't feel hope at all. >> okay. let me ask you both very quickly, and i'll start with you, james zogby, very quickly, if i may. are you optimistic within five years there could be a peace deal? >> well, we did a poll on that, and what we found is that palestinians themselves are hopeful that in five years a peace deal could be done. i, on the other hand, look at the politics of it. i don't see the israeli society moving in the direction of peace. i don't see congress here in the united states giving the president the backup he needs to push for peace. they slapped him down very hard in 2011. it was insulting to the united states.
and it hurt the chances for peace. so i would be rather sanguine. i think -- >> you're pessimistic. >> i would love to see it happen, but i think it's tough. >> okay, alan? >> well, if the palestinians sit down and negotiate, the israelis will make a very generous offer as they did in 2000 and 2001 and 2007. it's up to the palestinians to come to the negotiating table. you're not going to get peace without negotiation. you're not going to get it through the u.n. you're not going to get it through the international criminal court. you're not going to get it through violence and terrorism. you're going to get it with negotiations. will everybody be happy with the resolution? of course not. will the palestinians get 100%? no, they won't get the 67 borders, because that would include the jewish section of jerusalem. both sides have to negotiate, and compromise. but you can't compromise until you negotiate. so my message to the palestinians is, please, come sit down to the negotiating table. netanyahu has offered that. accept it.
>> sounds good, alan. but the two israeli leaders who made an offer in 2001 and '07 were on their way out of office and had nothing to lose by making a deal they never could fulfill. >> try it again. >>. >> okay, chaps. i'm going to leave it there. as winston churchill said, it's always better to jar jar than war war. thank you both very much indeed. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> when we come back, i'm going to talk to a man who created an addiction for me. it's this. a blackberry. i'm addicted. but are you? or are you on to apple and samsung and android? we'll find out after the break. humans. even when we cross our t's and dot our i's, we still run into problems. namely, other humans. which is why at liberty mutual insurance, auto policies come with new car replacement and accident forgiveness if you qualify. see what else comes standard at libertymutual.com. liberty mutual insurance.
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a quick clarification. we said earlier senator murray was opposed to dianne feinstein's bill to ban assault weapons. we'll update this. it's an important debate. millions of users worldwide, blackberry is giving apple and samsung a run for their money. now it's hoping to take a bigger slice out of the smartphone market with the release of their new device, the z-10. welcome to you. i'm a well-known blackberry crack addict or whatever they call them. i'm going to lay my cards on the table to you there. my two teenaged sons recently defected from the blackberries that i had lovingly given them
to iphone. how are you going to stop the migration, which has been going on for quite some time of your product to apple and, indeed, to samsung and android? >> the way we stop it, we have built a new exciting product. it's the first product of its kind. so let's give it to your sons. >> i've been playing around wit. you've got them both here. this is the one that is the touch screen with an iphone rival. the reviews have been pretty good for it. have they been spectacular enough? are you concerned that this may already be being overtaken with technology by some of your rivals. is it that fast now in this marketplace? >> the innovation is very, very fast, and ferocious, that's why we did innovative products. the way the user interface works with the peak, ebb and flow are
designed for people that are hyperconnected, multitaskers, gamers, that's why we did the slick typing on the keyboard as well. >> that is cool. >> there's quite some stuff in there that will excite people. >> and the keyboard is very cool, which is something i always love about blackberries and the hub idea is cool. you said the iphone is outdated. did you mean that? or were you hoping they're outdated? >> no, i think with the z10 coming to market, they are falling behind in terms of the user interface. you have this in and out paradigm. you open up, you flow. you open everything. and with the swipe of the thumb you go wherever you want. that takes away a lot of think points and stress for you. >> every businessman had a blackberry. a lot of them have blackberries. i saw p. diddy the other day, he was furious i had the black. he only had the silver.
i said, you're so last year, diddy. we have a crowd of people that like your devices. i see a lot of business people, nior level who have gone, gone for other places. what is the single best way you are going to hook them back with these things? >> the single best way is to use the interface we talk about. the second is the physical keypad. because what i'm hearing from a lot of them, they give me this instead of one device, the third thing, keep them on one device and not make them carry two devices, what we see, people latch on to this pretty well and nicely. we see a trend from people coming back or new to blackberry. very excited about it. >> i'm a big fan. i once did a promo for you to promote the playbook. it wasn't that successful, it wasn't up to me. i do love the blackberry. i like them. good to see you. >> thank you very much, piers. tomorrow night, we have a world exclusive, tom hanks and the cast of "lucky guy." first ever play on broadway, and his first play in 30 years. it's a great interview. anderson cooper after the break. written by people just like you.