tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN March 26, 2013 7:00pm-8:00pm PDT
[ applause ] >> i'd like to thank -- excellent studio audience. thank you very much to the great questions we've had from you and to the people we've had at home. it's been a very lively hour. and i'd like to thank suze for the magnificent bottle of wine which i intend to enjoy tonight. suze, thank you very much, indeed. >> any time. >> and that's all for us tonight. "anderson cooper" starts right now. good evening, everyone. high stakes and history at the supreme court. tonight, you won't see it anywhere else, a man who fought so that people could marry whomever they love regardless of skin color. he weighs in on tonight's battle over marrying whomever you love, period. also tonight, what is italian for deja vu? amanda knox thought her nightmare was over. four years in prison, an appeal and then freedom. now italy's highest court hits the rewind button and it could all be starting over again. we'll explain what's going to happen.
later, if pilots can use them in the cockpit, why can't you fire up an ipad in the cabin or use a kindle as the plane is taking off? the government says it is studying the question. the question is what is taking so long? people want to know, including pilot and electronics expert miles o'brien, who joins us tonight. we begin, though, at the supreme court, where justices today heard oral arguments in the first of two epic same sex marriage cases. california's proposition 8, plenty of oral argument outside as well. both sides amply represented. some speaking for a growing number of americans who consider marriage a fundamental right for any loving adult couple. others representing a sizeable minority who disagree. inside, captured on audiotape only, justices grilled both sides, perhaps revealing clues about how they're leaning. listen. >> when did it become unconstitutional to exclude homosexual couples from marriage? 1791, 1868? >> when did it become unconstitutional to prohibit interracial marriages? >> don't give me a question to my question. >> justice scalia showing impatience with ted olson, himself a staunch conservative
who is arguing for marriage rights. justice scalia later concluding that unless there's a clear answer to that question, he can't see how the court can decide the case. obama appointee elena kagan on the other hand questioning the attorney who argued to preserve california's same sex marriage ban and in his mind, preserve traditional marriage. >> it is very rare that both parties to the couple are infertile and the traditional -- >> if a couple -- i can just assure you if both the woman and the man are over the age of 55, there are not a lot of children coming out of that marriage. >> other justices questioned whether the case even belonged before the court, fueling speculation they will be looking for a way not to make any sweeping decision. in justice anthony kennedy gave voice to the danger of doing too much or too little. >> we have five years of information to weigh against
2,000 years of history or more. on the other hand, there is an immediate legal injury or legal -- what could be a legal injury, and that's the voice of these children. there are some 40,000 children in california, according to the red brief, that live with same sex parents and they want their parents to have full recognition and full status. the voice of those children is important in this case, don't you think? >> that is to say the least a fascinating window on history in the making. all the more when you're inside the chamber as it's happening. senior legal analyst jeffrey toobin was there today along with chief political analyst gloria borger. in terms of other cases you have heard in the supreme court, how does this compare? you heard the crowd laughing. does that happen a lot? >> yeah, there actually is often a lot of laughter. justice scalia usually tries to make a few jokes. some were successful, some were
not. he has a mixed batting average. what was unusual to me about today's argument is that usually there's a pattern. usually you can identify what the key issues are and what the court is focusing on. what was so confusing about today is they jumped around to so many different issues and even the liberals didn't all agree on everything and the conservatives didn't all agree on everything. so i don't feel like i have at all much of a handle on which way this case is going, with the exception that i don't think that they are going to order 50 states to have same sex marriage. a full complete victory for the supporters of same sex marriage seems unlikely, but a victory in california alone does seem very possible. >> why do you say that, jeff? what makes you think that? >> because even the liberals were concerned about going too far too fast. justice ginsburg raised that issue. justice sotomayor raised that issue of do we have to decide for all 50 states.
they seemed uncomfortable with that. and the conservatives seemed quite opposed to any sort of recognition of same sex marriage. scalia, alito and even roberts, too. >> you know, there seemed to be a sense in the courtroom that since this issue is proceeding in the states, and public opinion is actually moving in the direction of same sex marriage, that could work against ted olson in a way, because if this is proceeding in the states, then the question coming from the supreme court is why do we need to do this heavy lift now, and justice sotomayor seemed to be asking the question is there any way we can make a principled decision and limit it to the state of california. >> but jeff, isn't something either constitutional or not? why kind of just throw it up to the states? if something is unconstitutional or constitutional, why not make that ruling? >> that's the argument that ted olson was making, but i think it was a good window into what a political institution the supreme court is. i don't say that as criticism.
i think it's just reality. they recognize that it's very different doing something that provokes a huge part of the country and something that doesn't, and they recognize that sometimes they have to take a lot of heat but they don't want to take heat unnecessarily. i think what today did was really raise the stakes for tomorrow, because they really look to be punting on a lot of these big issues today, but tomorrow it's very unlikely they can punt on the issue of whether the defense of marriage act is unconstitutional and that's what we'll hear about tomorrow. >> anderson, in talking to ted olson a lot about this case, you know, he says that the reason the supreme court is here is to do the heavy lift when the states won't do it, as they did in legalizing interracial marriage.
brown versus board of education, in their brief they compare this to the great civil rights issues of our time, and he said that's exactly why the court is here and that's why it ought to rule on the larger issue. >> jeff, i don't know if you heard, we played the scalia/olson exchange where scalia would say when did it become unconstitutional and he gave some dates for same sex marriage, then olson responded with a question, saying you know, about interracial marriage. why does scalia say that is a key question? >> well, that really goes to the heart of scalia's judicial philosophy. he is what he calls an original. if he thinks the constitution means precisely what it meant in 1791 when it was ratified or 1868 when the 14th amendment was ratified, he says the constitution doesn't change. implicit in his question was look, in those eras, they certainly were not thinking about same sex marriage. so what he was sort of mocking olson's argument by saying well,
if it wasn't true then, when did it become true. and olson's point was we don't keep track of the constitution like a clock. what the point is is that it's unconstitutional today to discriminate against gay people in this way. that was what both sides were getting at in that argument. >> that's why so many conservatives have turned on ted olson, because they believe that he ought to be the scalia on this and have an originalist interpretation of the constitution and in this courtroom today, he seemed to be saying something very, very different. >> yeah. fascinating day. another one tomorrow. gloria, appreciate it. jeff toobin as well. the idea of equal rights for gays and lesbians as civil rights -- and civil rights being interchangeable or compatible has not always been so. that notion is growing in no smart part due to veterans of the fight to end racial segregation speaking out, people like congressman john lewis and civil rights legend julian bond, who joins me tonight. mr. bond, i'm wondering what you make first of all of what you've heard today kind of coming out
of the court. >> well, you know, you can't draw any conclusions about what people say, what they ask in the questions, what the justices say. so i'm not ready to say things are going to come out the way i want them to, but i think we all know that we're not going back to what we had before. at the very least, this court is going to say that proposition 8 is unconstitutional and the other states with same sex marriage can continue on with that. so at the very least, i think that's been won today. >> there are many people who still don't view this as part of the civil rights struggle or as part of a civil rights issue, so then what do you say? >> i say you're sadly mistaken. i understand particularly if you're black and you like to think of the civil rights as something black people do, we did it, we did it successfully, we won great victories, and we ought to be happy that other groups, gay people, lesbians, women, other groups of the american population have embraced our techniques, even
our songs, but this is not something we own. it's something we ought to share with others and say try this, we did this and it worked, try this, don't do this, it didn't work that well. other things we ought to say to people, do what we did, we'll help you if we can, and remember, we are among you. it's not like the gay people are over here, the black people over here. black people are gay people, too. >> i read something that congressman john lewis, obviously pioneer in the civil rights struggle, wrote ten years ago, an op-ed in the boston globe. he wrote this discrimination is wrong, we cannot keep turning our backs on gay and lesbian americans. i have fought too hard and too long against discrimination based on race and color not to stand up against discrimination based on sexual orientation. i've heard the reasons for opposing civil marriage for same sex couples. cut through the distractions and they stink of the same fear, hatred and intolerance i have known in racism and in bigotry. do you think it is that similarity? do you think it is -- >> absolutely. john lewis said it better than anyone could have said it. these are the same issues and
the same struggle among the same people. there's not a black civil rights movement and a gay civil rights movement. there are civil rights, all americans have civil rights, all americans ought to enjoy civil rights, and whatever the court does today, we are going to move a step closer to everyone enjoying these rights. >> just to play devil's advocate, why shouldn't this be left up to states, for people in states to decide, or legislatures in states to decide state by state, rather than nationwide? >> just as we did not allow segregation to be decided state by state. it turned out that despite what the supreme court said in '54 and '55 it turned out to be pretty much that, but we didn't intend it to be that, and the supreme court didn't intend it to do that, and whatever the court does today, i don't think they'll do what i want them to do. i don't think they'll do something sweeping involving the whole nation today. but they should have done it. if they don't do it. >> it's interesting when the supreme court ended bans on interracial marriages back in
the late '60s, in many parts of the country, the public seemed to have already kind of embraced that change. justice ginsburg noted that when the court outlawed bans on abortion with roe v wade she thought the justices had gone too far ahead of the public, that the court acted too soon. which situation do you believe we're closer to now? >> i think we're closer to the one about interracial marriage, that most americans have come to believe that same sex marriage is a right every american ought to have and that minority of americans who don't believe that are either going to be convinced that they should, or will have to just live with it and live with their disagreement. >> mr. bond, i really appreciate you taking the time to talk to us. thank you so much. >> my pleasure. thank you. >> let us know what you think about what the supreme court said today. follow me on twitter. up next, how do you tell a young woman who survived a criminal justice nightmare in italy including a sketchy murder conviction of four years in prison, that it could be happening again? the latest on the court that wants amanda knox retried,
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it penetrates deep to block pain signals for hours of relief. capzasin-hp. take the pain out of arthritis. crime and punishment tonight, amanda knox thought she was out, out of italy, through with the italian legal system a year and a half ago. that's when an appeals court overturned her murder conviction in the killing of her roommate, meredith kercher. she went free after four years in prison.
in italy, though, the state can appeal and it did. today, the country's supreme court rendered a decision to try her again. in a moment, the life she's made for herself back home. but first, ben wedeman and the daily beast, barbie ladough on the court decision that could turn the new life she has upside down. ben, the judges haven't issued the reason behind their ruling, have they? >> reporter: no. in fact, they have up to 90 days, anderson, to do that and of course, then the prosecution and defense has 45 days to respond. so this is not a fast track case in any sense of the word. this could take quite awhile. >> can you explain exactly what is going on? a lot of people in the u.s. have been likening this to double jeopardy, being tried for the same crime twice. you say that's not an apt comparison. >> no, that's not right at all. italy has a three-tier system in which there are really three levels to every single criminal trial, whether a simple robbery
or murder as complex as the murder of meredith kercher. in the first case the lower court makes a decision. in this case, they were convicted of the murder. in the second level which is the right by every defendant to appeal the first conviction if it's a conviction or for the prosecutor to appeal an acquittal in that case, they were acquitted of the murder of meredith kercher. no case is considered to be complete unless and until it finishes that third level, the high court decision which is what we heard today. >> so the high court has sent it back now, what, to the second court? >> that's right. in fact, it's possible for these two levels, for the appellate level and the high court level, to go back and forth as many as two or three times, if that's what is indicated by the evidence and by the way these trials go. so they have basically sent it back. the trial is still within the same cycle of the original trial so she's not being tried again for the same crime. her original trial has not yet been completed under the italian judicial standard. >> ben, you sort of referenced the timeline earlier. how long might all this take? >> reporter: well, we understand that the retrial could take place at the end of this year or the beginning of next year, and it could go on for quite some time. in fact, we're hearing that this
could go on for two or three years before a final verdict comes out in this case. >> a retrial, i mean, replaying all the evidence involved in the murder? >> reporter: well, what we heard from the prosecution is that that's what they want to do. they want to look at the entire body of evidence, not just little bits and pieces that the prosecution says was what the defense did in winning the acquittal in october 2011. they want to go back through all the evidence and nail this case, and this could take quite a lot of time. >> barbie, is there any precedent like this in a case in italy?
how much -- i mean, have politics or public pressure been involved? >> well, there have been a couple high profile cases. they involved in one case a military jet, american jet which clipped the cable of a gondola and sent several people to their death in northern italy. that case, the two pilots were sent back to the united states and italy asked to extradite them, but at the end of the day, the americans said we're not going to send them back, we will try them ourselves here in the united states. they were eventually found not guilty. but those are military cases. this is a case of amanda knox, a private case, so there's no precedent beyond things like international kidnapping, when it comes to divorced couples and custody battles. but in the italian books, there's not been a case of this nature yet. >> interesting. ben, barbie, appreciate it. thank you. amanda knox is just 25 years old. she spent four of those years in jail, a year and a half trying to put it all behind her, almost a quarter of her life. until today, life was getting back to normal. >> since returning to the u.s., amanda knox has spent the last
year and a half trying to live a normal life and that includes staying away from photographers. in the few photos we do have, she looks happy and relaxed, strolling with friends, enjoying her freedom here in seattle, her hometown, where she is now living near her two biggest supporters, her mother and father. and starting a life with a new boyfriend, a man named james, seen with her here in seattle. they were friends before amanda went to italy and as reported, the couple lives together in the city's chinatown district. he studies classical music and specializes in guitar. her life here, far from the legal battles she faced with her ex-boyfriend, raffaele sollecito, a relationship that made headlines around the world, infamously filmed kissing and cuddling after finding out about meredith kercher's murder. sollecito says they remain friends. >> we talk about family, about relationships with friends, about movies, books, music, anything. like friends, like very good
friends, we are now. yeah, we are almost brother and sister. we passed through a lot together. >> reporter: and says he's even visited amanda in seattle. upon returning from italy, amanda also went back to school, studying creative writing at the university of washington, where her current boyfriend also attends classes. she will take a semester off to promote the book she's written, a memoir about the four years she spent in an italian jail. the book, titled "waiting to be heard" will be published next month. >> we are joined from seattle by kyung lah. many friends and community members are also reliving this, right? >> you are absolutely right about that. i actually spoke with a family friend who was spearheading some of the community rallies, trying to raise money for a legal fund. they say they spent the day today extremely furious, furiously angry, she said, after
the news came out, but what's happened since is that they've had a lot of confusion and trying to decide what the next step is going to be, if they're going to have to indeed start those legal funds again. >> appreciate the reporting. for more, go to cnn.com. a new trial for amanda knox, if that actually happens, means a new chance for prosecutors to make their case, but do they actually have evidence to secure another conviction? we'll take a closer look next. also, the suspect in the murder of colorado's prison chief died in a shootout with police. you probably know that by now. but what investigators found in his car suggests he may have had other bigger deadly plans. the carful? how about...by the bowlful? campbell's soups give you nutrition, energy, and can help you keep a healthy weight. campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do. i'm up next, but now i'm singing the heartburn blues. hold on, prilosec isn't for fast relief. cue up alka-seltzer. it stops heartburn fast.
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evidence was rejected by jurors during the appeal that ended with an acquittal for knox and raffaele sollecito. in a statement released today, amanda knox says its prosecutor's responsibility for the discrepancies in their work and they must be made to answer for them. our investigative correspondent drew griffin has over the years looked deeply into this evidence, the very questionable evidence raised during the appeal. he also looked at what some might call the questionable characters who rushed to judgment. here's drew's report. >> reporter: almost immediately after police say she confessed to her crime, amanda knox recants. she tells her parents she broke under stress. in court she would tell jurors how a police officer struck her from behind, how she was denied water, food, a translator. and how she says under pressure by police, she was asked repeatedly to dream up, imagine scenarios for how it could have happened. cnn traveled to perugia, italy to sit down with the lead prosecutor of amanda knox.
for three hours, he answered our questions and his critics that he prosecuted knox with little evidence, that he played on emotions and rumor rather than facts, and that the linchpin of his case, the so-called confession of amanda knox, was coerced out of a frightened college student. nobody hit her. >> translator: no, absolutely not. >> reporter: was she asked to imagine scenarios? so she's lying? >> translator: absolutely. you either see the person or not. i can't ask a person what he or she imagines. this question would make no sense. >> reporter: that's not all that wouldn't make sense, because it turns out virtually everything amanda knox told her interrogators the night of her so-called confession was a lie. amanda knox in this statement
told police she was in the house the night of the murder and saw her boss, a nightclub owner, and meredith kercher, go into meredith's room and she heard screams. amanda's statement adds i am very confused. i imagined what could have happened. police apparently didn't bother to check the facts. they immediately arrested amanda knox, raffaele sollecito and patrick lamumba for the murder of meredith kercher. police announcing to the public case solved. the prosecutor admitted to us even without any evidence, he knew almost the moment he arrived and laid eyes on amanda knox and raffaele sollecito, they were involved in the murder. prior to the forensic investigation, prior to everything, really, your intuition or your detective knowledge led you to amanda knox and raffaele sollecito. >> translator: after the first
few weeks, we were convinced because of the behavior of the two people and especially amanda that they were both involved in the crime. >> reporter: but almost immediately after the arrests, the prosecutor had a problem. the third suspect had an airtight alibi. he was in his crowded bar that night. he could not have been involved. then the actual forensic tests came back. >> when i looked at it, i was horrified. >> reporter: greg is a forensic biologist and director of idaho's innocence project. he also was working with the knox defense team. he says italian investigators did a good job processing the crime scene, collected excellent
evidence, but clung to shakier evidence that proved their theory. a classic error, he says. a prosecutor who trusted his gut feeling instead of the science that at that time was pointing to another suspect. >> they didn't like the way amanda behaved, whatever that means. and so they wanted to investigate her and raffaele, and her boss. when the dna's finally processed, it's not any of their suspects so what do you do? what would you do? you let them go. >> reporter: as patrick lamumba was being released from jail, investigators analyzing the bloody evidence left at the crime scene found an entirely new suspect. rudy gadai, a known petty criminal from the ivory coast who fled to germany shortly after the murder. it turns out his handprint made in meredith kercher's own blood was found in the victim's room. his dna found inside the victim's body in her vagina. his dna on her clothing, on her purse. his feces even found on used
toilet paper left near an unflushed toilet down the hall. and something else. he didn't even know raffaele and had only met amanda a few times with neighbors. knowing all of that and when he finally got extradited from germany back to italy, we thought thank god this is over. >> reporter: it wasn't. the prosecutor simply swapped suspects. amanda knox, raffaele sollecito and now rudy gadai had come to meredith kercher hoping to include her in an orgy. when kercher refused, they pulled out knives and killed her. the prosecutor would stick to his instincts despite the forensic evidence. you were fixated, according to the defense, on amanda knox and raffaele sollecito, and kept imagining new scenarios that
made these two people guilty. >> translator: no, absolutely not. i did what i did because i was convinced given the evidence that had been gathered that they were responsible. i am absolutely convinced. >> reporter: rudy gadai, the african drifter, was quickly convicted and sent to prison, implicating amanda and raffaele after which his sentence was reduced. since 2009, the prosecutor would bring his case against amanda knox and her boyfriend to trial. >> you pinpointed in your report just how little evidence there was in the case against amanda knox. the appellate judge basically agreed with that.
so what's going to be new in this new trial, if there is a new trial, if there's new evidence? >> i have seen no evidence, anderson, that there's any new evidence but i think that's a problem for amanda knox. look, i'm a reporter, i'm going to report to you, there's no evidence she or raffaele did this crime. there's just none. but that same lack of evidence has convicted her in one trial and acquitted her in another trial, and now with the same evidence, it appears, they're going back for trial number three. it's like a tossup, flip of the coin. >> yeah. it's amazing we got this far. appreciate it. we spoke last night before the verdict with knox's attorney, ted simon. he joins us again tonight. first of all, how is amanda knox doing? how's she taking this news? i can't imagine what this is like for her. >> yeah, i appreciate you asking that. i mean, this day started very early, as you know, 5:00 my time, 2:00 a.m. their time. first thing in the morning after the news, i spoke with curt and
chris and obviously they were disappointed. at that time, i didn't have a chance to speak to amanda but i quickly learned that she, you know, this was very painful for her. later in the day, as time went on, i did have an opportunity to speak to amanda and i spoke to her at some great length. and after the hours passed, what happened is she was getting such an outpouring of support, she was heartened by this not only from friends and family, but from people she didn't even know. those people without knowing amanda understand how unjust and how unfounded these allegations are and that has really buoyed her up and she is fiercely determined to see this thing through, and ultimately end up in the same place where she was before, which is being found not guilty, which takes us to the next real issue in this case. something that is grossly misunderstood. and that is the supreme court of italy merely acted on a procedural point. they remanded the case for a revision. what that ultimately means, we do not know, because the written motivation will not issue and they have up to 90 days, and unless and until they write that
motivation, we will not know the scope of appeal or what the supreme court wants the appellate jury to consider or reconsider or re-evaluate. >> so when some are reporting that there's going to be a retrial, you're saying we don't know that. >> we don't know precisely until the supreme court rules what they're going to ask of the appellate court jury. they very well may have hearings. they may reconsider evidence. they may do a variety of things.
but what happened in this case, the prosecution argued various points, and we don't know which ones until that supreme court ruling comes out, they're going to rely on. once that happens, then the issues will be joined which brings us to the next misunderstood point. for this type of proceeding, there is no requirement for amanda to be present, and in fact, of the issues raised by the prosecution, it's wholly unnecessary for her to be there. >> as an attorney for amanda knox, what do you tell your client? this is a young woman who has restarted her life, attempting to restart her life. she's in school now, she's looking forward obviously to her future. this thing could drag on for years. do you tell her to just continue with her studies and not worry about it? i mean, what kind of advice do you give your client? >> well, you know, i can't tell you what advice i gave my client. amanda is going to continue with her life. she's a wonderful young woman. and you know, she's interested in writing. she is very literary. she has a particular interest in music and obviously, she's in the university. so these things will continue but obviously she's going to have to remain focused on this
case and this nightmare unfortunately continues to endure. something we had hoped would not. but yet the bottom line is there was no evidence, there is no evidence, there never will be any evidence and we remain fully confident that in the end, when this next appellate court jury reviews the evidence, reviews all of the evidence, they'll come up with the same, you know, conclusion. i mean, amanda said it best. she issued a statement and what she said in part was no matter what happens, my family and i will face this continuing legal battle as we always have, confident in the truth and with our heads held high and the face of wrongful accusations and unreasonable adversity. you know, i wish them great strength. >> ted simon, i know it's been a long 24-hour period for you. appreciate you taking time to talk to us. thank you. >> thank you. we will continue to follow developments in the case, obviously. join us friday night for our special report, murder abroad,
the amanda knox stories at 10:00 p.m. eastern on cnn. the suspect in the murder of colorado's prison chief died in a shootout with sheriff deputies in texas. you know that by now. what they found in his car suggests he planned for more death and destruction. we'll explain ahead. o family ti. this is my family. this is joe. hi joe! hi there! earn a ton of extra points with the double your hhonors promotion and feel the hamptonality.
relief could be on the way for millions of airline passengers who depend on electronic gadgets to pass the time on flights. the faa is addressing questions about whether popular electronics really affect navigation systems. the faa is reconsidering its power down policy for takeoffs and landings. joining me is miles o'brien, science correspondent for pbs news hour and a pilot himself. great to see you. every time i fly, i'm told to turn off the ipad for takeoff and landing, turn off the cell phone because it might affect
obviously the flight. they are now saying it could actually be completely safe after all? >> yeah. yeah. we can finish up that game of word with friends with alec baldwin we wanted to finish up. the truth is that some of these devices emit tiny amounts of he electromagnetic radiation. kindle e-readers, there is virtually nothing that comes out of them. the faa has a committee that includes pilots, the public, industry and so forth, and they are going through and actually trying to apply a little bit of common sense to rules that many of us have been scratching our head over all these years. it just doesn't make sense. >> this wouldn't apply to cell phones, though, would it? >> no. cell phones are in a little different category because first of all, the frequency is kind of close to the gps frequency, and that's part of the navigational equipment in the airplane. and secondly, let's face it, do we really want to have everybody on a cell phone on an airplane as we're flying along?
maybe this should be the last place where people aren't talking on the phone. >> senator mccaskill, who is pushing for this change, she points out that pilots are using ipads in the cockpit, the flight attendants even have been given them. that's something i think a lot of people maybe didn't realize. >> this is when the house of cards started tumbling for the faa when it was announced that american airlines was issuing ipads to all of its flight crew so that the people closest to the navigational gear which supposedly is affected have ipads with them with their charts on it. well, at that point, it became almost mandatory for the faa to look at it and say wait a minute, maybe the people in 33d should be able to use the same device. >> would this mean laptops as well? what's the timetable for any possible change? >> well, we will hear in july and it's unclear exactly which devices we're going to get loosened up on. look for the e-readers for sure. that's very likely that we won't have to turn off the e-readers, as long as it's in airplane mode during takeoff and landing. and then some of these other
lower emitting devices, we might be able to use them with a little more flexibility. that's after all, we're all carrying these devices, it's part of our lives. >> sure is. miles, great to have you on the program. thanks. >> pleasure. up next, explosive new details, the investigation into the murder of colorado prisons chief tom clements. what investigators found in the suspect's car, the same car involved in a police chase and shootout in texas. also tonight, a cnn exclusive. who really killed osama bin laden? another member of the s.e.a.l. team six has a story in "esquire" magazine about the alleged triggerman as quote, complete b.s. details on that ahead. [ engine revving ]
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>> hi, there, i'm susan hendricks with a news and politics update. they've found bomb material in evan ebel's car. he was accused of killing aweek ago. a cnn exclusive. another navy seal says the esquire magazine boxes who killed osama bin laden is total b.s. maybe it was another man who fired that deadly shot. he also says the point man will likely never speak pubically about his role in the raid. and earlier today, peter bergen describes a conversation he had about it with a seal
team's sixth member. >> the first seal's account with the point man sow bin laden stick his head out of his bedroom, shot him, mortally wounded hirm and then two more seals came in and finished him off on the floor. so what the difference here is in the shooter in the esquire article, you know, as you said, shoots bin laden while he's standing up. he looks like maybe he's going to go for a gun. the seal team member said that's completely false. bin laden could have reached for a gun. not shot by this guy in the "esquire" article in the way that it's described. >> again, that was earlier on "the lead with jake tapper". the dow closes at a new
>> she will replace mark sullivan, the former top g-man who retired last month. let's check out the dow now. it opens tomorrow at a new record high. blue chips adding 112 points today to finish at 14,559. amazing discovery now in the gulf of mexico off the florida coast. scientists say the first ever two-headed bull shark was found by a fisherman when he cut open a pregnant shark in 2011. the two-headed shark died shortly after. the scientists write about the discovery this week in a research journal. they say the shark also had two hearts and two stomachs but only one tail. >> really amazing. incredible. susan, thanks. coming up, what do you do when life hands you more than a foot of snow in early spring? you make a snowman that looks like a heavy metal icon on the "ridiculist."
upside. it gave a guy named freddy in collinsville, illinois one more chance to wow his neighbors with his snow sculpting prowess. check this out. over the years he fashioned a cowboy boot, a dragon, a corvette, clifford, the big red dog, beevis and butthead and the cast of "south park" but his latest work, well, takes it to the next level. freddy used the opportunity of this late march storm to fashion a snowman in the likeness of gene simmons from kiss in full makeup. freddy and his work are well known in the neighborhood so people constantly drive by when it snows to see what he's come up with. >> everybody knows if it snows and you can walk out and get a good snowball like that, come by the house. there is probably going to be something out there. done probably 35 to 40 of them. >> making a heavy metal snowman has its challenges. this is not your average snowman. you need a lot of snow. the tongue alone requires a whole bunch of it. freddy has a technique and recruited some help. >> take the whole driveway and
we wheelbarrowed it up to the front. >> i actually helped him shovel all day. i just about got frostbite out here. >> the gene simmons snowman is getting a lot of attention for those who aren't familiar with freddy's work, passersby are amazed and shocked, almost as shocked as mike douglas was in 1974 when he had gene simmons on his show. >> here from kiss is gene simmons. who dreamed this up, this get-up?