Skip to main content

tv   The Lead With Jake Tapper  CNN  July 1, 2013 1:00pm-2:01pm PDT

1:00 pm
in self-defense. he recognizes he took the life of another human being. so it shows a more human side to him. >> okay. thank you very much. we'll continue following the trial of course. i'm brooke baldwin. jake tapper and "the lead" starts right now. >> it sounded to the dispatcher -- >> i'm jake tapper, this is "the lead." you're watching live coverage of the george zimmerman trial. you're listening to interviews that officer serino did with george zimmerman. let's take a listen. >> now you want us to believe that you're concerned about having a flashlight to move back where you just ran? you know what i'm saying?
1:01 pm
>> you brought a flashlight with you? you wanted to be able to see? >> we are in a whole different area right here. this is where -- this is why i took you out of there so i can recall your memory and let you see if they say you walked back too your car, they're not going to believe anything i have to say. that's why i'm saying, is there anything you need to qualify right now? did you pursue this kid? did you want to catch him? >> no. >> that's not you? that's not what you're about? >> why did you tell -- [ inaudible ]. >> i was frustrated and i couldn't think of the street name. >> but you were going to be back in your car in less than 15 or 20 seconds so why would they need to call you? >> i felt like i didn't give them an adequate description of
1:02 pm
where i was. >> the impression would be that you're just going to continue to look and when you get there, just tell them to look. oh, never mind, just tell them to call me and i'll tell them where i'm at, meaning i might not be at my car, where i just told them i would be. >> if there's anything that needs to be changed, this is it, all right? and we can't do this anymore. >> you hear that voice in the background? >> i'm not sure, there's screaming. maybe both, i'm not sure, there's just someone screaming
1:03 pm
outside. >> that's you. >> what's the address? 1211 -- [ inaudible ]. >> and is it a male or a female? >> do you hear yourself? >> and you don't know why? >> i don't know why. i don't know. >> does he look hurt? >> i can't see him. i don't want to go out there. i don't know what's going on. >> they're coming. >> he's smothered you. >> correct. >> at what point did he smother you? was it right before you shot him? >> [ inaudible ].
1:04 pm
>> there's someone screaming outside. >> what's the address? >> 1211 -- >> [ inaudible ]. >> and is it a male or a female? >> help me, help me. >> sounds like a male. >> and you don't know why? >> i don't know. >> does he look hurt? >> i can't see him. i don't want to go out there. i don't know what's going on so -- they're coming. >> [ inaudible ]. >> all right, what is it -- >> it's a gunshot. >> can you recall ever -- prior
1:05 pm
to you shooting him, he was on you, correct? >> yeah. >> and you -- [ inaudible ]. >> you shot him at point blank range. he was on top of you, right? >> yes, sir. >> and nobody came out to help you. i can't pinpoint where you were smothered. that's the problem i'm having. nobody say they saw him smother. people say they saw someone on top of you but they didn't see the smothering part. >> sounds like it's continuous. it's got to stop. we don't hear him stop. >> we don't hear him at all either. is he being quiet, is he whispering or something? is he calm?
1:06 pm
>> no, he's like angry. >> i don't hear him, though. >> then he saw you had a gun at that point. were you standing before you punched him? no way, no how? he couldn't have gotten a glimpse of it accidentally? >> [ inaudible ]. >> and once again, getting back to the ending, what was the provocation from punching you other than the fact you were following him that you can think of? why was he so mad at you? >> [ inaudible ]. >> investigator serino, in about 52 minutes when you're playing the recording, you specifically say "are you hearing yourself?" and mr. zimmerman says "that
1:07 pm
doesn't even sound like me." you recall that? >> yes, sir. >> during parts of the interview you showed him some photographs. do you recall that? >> yes, i do, sir. >> you showed him a photograph of the victim's cell phone that was on the ground? >> i did. and you told him this might have been videotaped. were you bluffing to him, lying to him to get him to say something? >> yes, sir, i was. >> you also showed him photographs of the victim; is that correct? >> yes, i did. >> your honor, may have i a moment? >> you need a recess? >> yes. >> okay. court will be in recess for 15 minutes. ladies and gentlemen, put your notebooks down on the chair and follow deputy jarvis. >> let's take a step back and look at today's testimony so far.
1:08 pm
we've been in the middle of testimony from detective chris serino, the lead investigator, the second investigator to take the stand today. earlier we heard from detective doris singleton. she's the police officer who read zimmerman his rights the night of the shooting and she interviewed him first. the jury today hearing and seeing george zimmerman describe that night in his own words. not on the stand but on an audiotape from the night of the shooting and a videotape reenactment on the day after. i want to bring in jeffrey toobin and diane dimon. let's pick up the audiotape after the dispatcher told zimmerman that the police did not need him to follow martin that need. >> i was walking back through to where my car was and he jumped out from the bushes and he said what the [ bleep ] is your
1:09 pm
problem, homey? and i got my cell phone out to call 911 this time. and i said, hey, man, i don't have a problem. and he goes "now you have a problem" and punched me in the nose. i fell down. >> just judging from zimmerman's own words here, did he start this by following trayvon martin or did martin start it by confronting him on the way back to his truck? diane, let's start with you? >> well, i think that's the $64,000 question, jake. who knows because trayvon martin isn't here to tell us his side of thing. there were eyewitnesses to the actual fight or the aftermath of the fight. but what exactly happened in the beginning, the best evidence that we have is on that 911 tape or nonemergency tape of george zimmerman talking to the police. and he will say if he took the stand, which i don't think he's going to now that the jury has heard from him on these interviews, he would say once they said we don't need you to
1:10 pm
follow him, i went back to my car, i started back to my car and i was accosted by trayvon martin. so that would be his side. and that's the only side left to know. >> while the court's in recess, we're going over the events of the day. jeffrey toobin, is there a difference between -- obviously there's a difference between series of the case but is there a legal difference between zimmerman following trayvon martin and trayvon martin confronting zimmerman for following him? does that matter at all? >> well, what ultimately matters is whether the jury accepts zimmerman's self-defense claim. that doesn't -- that isn't a minute or second-by-second decision, it's an overall decision on the part of the jury. so, yes, it is significant -- all those individual steps are significant, who followed whom. and each -- each step in the process. but ultimately the jury is going to have to decide overall was
1:11 pm
zimmerman firing his gun in self-defense. obviously a key issue is did -- who started the fight, the altercation between them. and we're going to have to look at how the prosecution attacks the statement. it really a two-part process. today they're putting in the statement, later they would put in evidence that they believe will contradict what zimmerman told the police. >> if you're just joining us, the court is in recess right now. let's continue zimmerman's narrative using the reenactment that he taped with police. >> my body was on the grass and my head was on the cement and he kept slamming and slamming and i kept yelling help, help, help. he put his hand on his nose -- on my nose and his other hand on my mouth and he said shut the [ bleep ] up.
1:12 pm
>> we weren't even sure if this reenactment would be admitted. why is that, diane? >> because some things are just so one-sided that the judge decides it's not allowed. i'm struck by the overall tone of today was, in my opinion, that george zimmerman after what happened happened was completely compliant with the police. he talked to them, he did not say i want a lawyer. he said whatever you need, check out my injuries, take my picture, put me in front of a video camera. he was completely compliant. now really in effect george zimmerman testified in court today without ever having to take the stand, but some jurors might say, my decide, you know what, he's pretty dispassionate. he just killed a man and there he sat for hours and hours writing out the text. he never once was reported to be cry organize upset. he did to the know in the beginning that george zimmerman was dead. the first detective doris
1:13 pm
singleton told him and he did drop his head, she said, but there was no real emotion and that might count for some of the jurors. >> jeff, your take on the admission of this videotape, which i think a lot of people are surprised that it was shown today in court. >> well, it's very good for the zimmerman defense because here he is laying out his theory of what happened, his version of what happened and there is effectively no cross-examination. at that point just a couple of days after trayvon martin's death, no one had assembled all the evidence in a way that might incriminate zimmerman so he basically gets to tell his story in a narrative way with no cross-examination, which is essentially the dream of every criminal defendant. that's a very fortunate turn of events for zimmerman. it doesn't mean he's going to get acquitted but certainly his lawyers will be happy to see this -- that tape admitted. >> he's getting to tell his side of the story without anybody
1:14 pm
challenging him. we're going to take a very quick break. and coming up on "the lead," we'll return to the courtroom in sanford, florida to the trial of george zimmerman. we're also following some other news including the tragic deaths of 19 firefighters in arizona. how did this highly skilled, elite squad get trapped? back in just a brief moment. ry," "that starts with one of the world's most advanced distribution systems," "and one of the most efficient trucking networks," "with safe, experienced drivers." "we work directly with manufacturers," "eliminating costly markups," "and buy directly from local farmers in every region of the country." "when you see our low prices, remember the wheels turning behind the scenes, delivering for millions of americans, everyday. "dedication: that's the real walmart"
1:15 pm
[ male announcer ] with everyone on the go this summer, now's the perfect time to get home security for protection while you're away. and right now you can get adt security installed starting at just $49, a savings of $250. but hurry. offer ends soon. don't wait. call right now or visit this is a fire that didn't destroy a home. this is a break-in that didn't devastate a family. this is the reason why. adt. you can't predict when bad things will happen, but you can help protect yourself with the fast alarm response of adt, with 24/7 monitoring against burglary, fire, and high levels of carbon monoxide
1:16 pm
starting at just over $1 a day. this is the computer that didn't get stolen, keeping priceless photos and financial records safe. this is the reason why. take advantage of adt's summer savings. starting at $49 installed. hurry. offer ends july 8th. adt. always there. welcome back to "the lead."
1:17 pm
we're keeping our eyes on the zimmerman trial in sanford, florida. tha they're in the middle of a brief recess. we'll come back to florida once they return from the recess. i'm talking about the men called the hot shots, the men who are the best of the best, sent into the hottest hot spots. last night in arizona 19 of them went in and none of them came out. a ferocious blaze threatening the town of yarnell, a blaze that grew to 8,000 acres. a shift in the winds trapped and killed nearly all of the elite team from prescott, arizona. the average age of the men, just 22 men. it was the deadliest day for firefighters since 9/11 and
1:18 pm
deadliest wildfire incident in 80 years. today president obama led the tribute to them from africa. >> the news is heart breaking. our thoughts and prayers go out to the families of the brave firefighters who go out there. it's one more reminder that our first responders put their lives on the line every single day. and every time we have a community in crisis, a disaster strikes, we've got people in need. firefighters, law enforcement officers, they run towards the danger. and so we are heart broken about what happened. obviously we're prepared to provide any support we can in investigating exactly how this took place. >> that's president obama in tanzania. now we go to stephanie who is
1:19 pm
live in prescott, arizona. >> this is a small town, everyone is rocked by this because everybody knew these 19 young men. this news is shaking everyone to their corps, knowing that they deployed their safety tents to protect themselves but it wasn't enough because it got too hot. they continue to try to figure out what exactly was the cause to lead to the deaths of all of these men. >> stephanie, we're getting new information about one of the firefighters who died. tell us about him. >> that's right. this person that we're talking about, his name is kevin wojcik, he's the son of the captain of
1:20 pm
the los angeles county fire department, joe wojcik, which it's very devastating for a firefighter family. joe will be on with anderson cooper to talk about his son. just knowing you have a young man in his 20s working on a fire line in an area that wasn't even threatening the town where he was from here in prescott. it was out in a different town but trying to help out his fellow firemen to keep that fire away. we're learning more and more about who these people were. >> when they realized there was no escape, they had to literally dig in and build their tents called shake and bake tents. protective foil that are just big enough to cover them as hell passes over them. we look at where they were and
1:21 pm
the elements they were up against. tom? >> the investigation is just starting now into how this thing happened but almost certainly what we're going to find is it had something to do with the terrain around yarnell here. you can already see it's mountainous. 24 hours ago it was only about like this. now it's spread to more than 8,000 acres over here. when we look at this terrain, we have to consider the conditions there that these guys were fighting in. hot shots are some of the most fit and prepared firefighters you'll find anywhere in this country. they have to pass all sorts of physical tests to even do this. but in this kind of terrain, many things can come together that make it very difficult. the elevation, 1,800 to 2,200 feet. it's enough to tax you a little bit. the temperature, 98 degrees. considering the gear they're carrying that's correct a lot. wind, 17 to 24 miles an hour. if you get into the valley, it
1:22 pm
can channel the wind. >> what were the hot shots doing specifically when the disaster struck? >> our understanding and the investigation is still under way right now, my understanding is they were digging fire breaks, where you try to cut something that will separate the fuel from the fire. normally there's a procedure that's done all the time so how could this fire run up on them? back in the 1990s there was another fatal fire in colorado. the reports found the terrain made it difficult for the firefighters working here on this line to see the approach of the fire. if the fire was moving relatively slowly when they started digging but then a big wind came through and it started advancing quickly, they may not know it until it was on top of them.
1:23 pm
if there was a ridge line or something that speed it is up, in the case of storm king mountain, it advanced in 9.8 seconds. incredibly fast. they always have to have an escape plan, a shelter area. little time to even get to those. that's why people pull out these shake and bake tents. it's the last thing they can do. i think we'll find a lot of topography, speed of the winds. you go into a tent like that at 500 degrees, the tent itself starts coming apart around you. >> thank you so much. we'll go back live to the courtroom in just ament. plus was is george zimmerman or trayvon martin yelling for help that night? an fbi voice analysis expert testified today. what did he think? back right after this. we're cracking down on medicare fraud.
1:24 pm
the healthcare law gives us powerful tools to fight it... to investigate it... ...prosecute it... and stop criminals. our senior medicare patrol volunteers...
1:25 pm
are teaching seniors across the country... stop, spot, and report fraud. you can help. guard your medicare card. don't give out your card number over the phone. call to report any suspected fraud. we're cracking down on medicare fraud. let's make medicare stronger for all of us.
1:26 pm
1:27 pm
welcome back to "the lead." you're looking at live pictures from the courtroom in which george zimmerman is being tried for second degree murder. diane, you were talking during the break there about how the two police officers that are testifying today, officer doris singleton and then homicide detective christopher sereino that they were almost playing good cop/bad cop. >> george singleton questions zimmerman about god and killing and if you were really defending
1:28 pm
yourself, i don't think god would mind. then comes serino. he really plays the bad cop. i mean, he gets in and he tries to shake the story line with zimmerman and he says things like weren't you pursuing that kid? it sounds like he's running to get away from you? did you pursue him? and zimmerman gets defensive and says no, no. so the jury is hearing a little bit of cross-examination of zimmerman, even though he isn't under oath. >> one of the things that's so interesting is what we know -- sounds like we're about to go into the courtroom. jeff, i'll come back to you after the next break. >> the interviews are a little hard to make out. i didn't know -- >> just so you know that that has come into evidence and you will be able to take it back with you into the jury room and
1:29 pm
you'll have a way to go ahead and play it. okay? that help? >> thank you. >> you're welcome. >> investigator serino, just to make it clear at about 52 minutes into that interview on the 29th, you were playing the recording of the screams for help. correct? do you recall that? the 9/11 recording? >> yes, i believe so. >> and in terms of you were asked in terms of who it was when he stated "that doesn't even sound like me." do you recall that? >> correct, yes. >> you were also referencing when you interviewed him in terms of there's only three streets. i'm referring to state's exhibit no. 1 in terms of -- there's the main one in terms of twin tree lane, goes all the way from the front entrance to the back
1:30 pm
entrance, correct? >> correct. >> then there's long oak way, the third one right there, correct? >> yes, sir. >> okay. >> and finally, sir, in your interview of the defendant, you showed him several photographs, including the photograph of the phone, of victim, et cetera. is that correct? >> yes, sir, i did. >> states exhibit 94, is this one of the photographs you showed the defendant? >> if i may publish that to the jury, your honor? >> i object, your honor. will you see me here or at the bench? >> at the bench. >> while the lawyers take a side bar with the judge, jeffrey, one of the things that's interesting is we know that chris serino, the investigating detective, told the fbi that he felt
1:31 pm
pressured to file charges. he recommended manslaughter, which is of course a lesser offense than what zimmerman is facing right now, second degree murder. but the jury won't know that. the jury won't learn that probably, right? >> oh, absolutely. that's the kind of thing that would definitely keep from the jury. it's certainly an issue that is very much a public issue at this point since i think the consensus seems to be the government is having a very hard time proving the level of intent that's needed for second degree murder. should they have gone for a lesser charge, manslaughter, in the first place. but those are the kinds of issues that quite properly are not before the jury. that would just place irrelevant and perhaps prejudicial information for the jury. that's a subject for to us talk about and for the people who run florida government to talk about but it's certainly not something the jury should be concerned
1:32 pm
with. >> while that side bar continues, let's hear more from the audiotape where zimmerman was saying that he was the one yelling for help after trayvon martin jumped him. >> i was still yelling for help and i could see people looking and some guy yells out i'm calling 911. i said "help me, help me, he's killing me." and he puts his hand on my nose and on my mouth and he says "you're going to die tonight." and i don't remember much after that. i just remember i couldn't breathe. >> jeffrey and diane, while the lawyers continue a side bar in the court, let's talk about this. the fbi voice analyst who testified this morning said he could not determine who was yelling from the 9/11 call that had screaming in the background. so why is the prosecution, diane, letting the jury hear zimmerman say that it was him who was yelling?
1:33 pm
>> well, you know, it's odd. you have a body of evidence in a case and you lawyers on both sides have to decide are we going to let them bring it up or are we're going to bring it up? i think the prosecution says, look, it's been out of there and florida has sunshine laws so the immediate why gets everything as soon as the police get it practically. the reality is no matter what the prosecution brings up, the defense isible to say women. --
1:34 pm
>> there was no way that i could see that he could keep it out of evidence. what i find bizarre is why they called this audio expert in the morning to say that he couldn't tell whose voice it was. >> to say nothing. >> so what? >> right. >> why call a witness who can parade his ignorance before the jury. it just seems to me to raise more questions than it settles. when you're the prosecutor, you want to say to the jury this is a simple case, the facts point in this direction. if you're calling witnesses who say i don't know, why are you doing that? >> jeffrey, don't you think probably just for reasonable doubt? he says that's him calling but the fact is nobody else can tell for sure. i think it's just for reasonable doubt reasons. don't you? >> but the prosecution's trying to make it beyond a reasonable doubt. this seems to add doubt. >> i know. >> that's -- yes, i can see why the defense might want to call
1:35 pm
someone who just throws all their chips in the air and says i don't know, but why would a prosecutor do such a thing? >> while the side bar continues, let's go to the videotape reenactment and get your view on that. zimmerman is describing the moment when the shot rang out. >> that's when my jacket went up and i had my firearm on my right side hit. my jacket moved up. he saw it, i feel like he looked at it, he said "you're going to die tonight [ bleep ]." he reached for it, i felt his arm going down to my side. i grabbed it and i just grabbed my firearm. >> it does seem, jeffrey and diane, that his story has basically stayed consistent from the moment he started talking to police officers throughout all these interviews. that's not to say that it's the truth or it not the truth but it does seem relatively consistent. it does look -- i'm sorry, the
1:36 pm
side bar is about to end. we'll come back to you in a second as we go back to the courtroom. >> is this a medical examiner photograph showing the gunshot wound to trayvon martin? >> yes, it is. >> was the purpose of showing it photograph to the defendant to show how skinny, as you stated in the recording, trayvon martin was in comparison to the defendant? >> one of the purposes, yes. >> and does that photograph accurate live depict just how skinny trayvon martin was? >> yes, it does. >> cross? >> if i may.
1:37 pm
>> good afternoon, officer. >> good afternoon, sir. >> how are you? >> good. how are you? >> to set the stage and i know that you had testified to some of this, though not all of it in your direct examination, you were -- it became the chief investigating officer whose responsibility was the entirety of this case, correct? >> yes, sir. >> so that you were the one who looked at what was done on scene, decided what else needed to be done, tasked that out to the other people who would assist you and basically led the investigation down the path that it was to go? >> yes, sir. >> and in doing that you assigned different tasks to a
1:38 pm
number of law enforcement officers, correct? >> yes, sir. >> gathering evidence was one task that you put out to other officers, correct? >> yes, sir. >> interviewing additional witnesses and sort of setting the stage to get all of the information available that you could, correct? >> yes, sir. >> and once you'd gather that information, then you would put that together, talk about it with your team that included everyone up to the chief of police, bill lee, correct? >> correct. >> and even included members of the attorney's office, correct? >> correct. >> you were running that team in order to come up with everything that needed to be done to move this case forward? >> yes, sir. >> okay. you haven't testified to virtually any of that yet,
1:39 pm
though, have you? you haven't testified to the tasks given out to the durch office -- different officers, you haven't testified to the coordination of that coming back together, you have? >> no, i haven't. >> basically the only thing you've testified to so far are the statements of my client? >> so far, yes. >> okay. and let's talk about those statements for just a minute. as you first talked to my client, and i'm not going to test your memory too much, but can you give me the timing? we know this event happened on the 26th of february, 2012 about 7:00, 7:15. when was the first time that you spoke to my client? >> bat -- about five after midnight on the 27th.
1:40 pm
>> literally six hours after the event? >> six hours, five and a half hours. >> and you knew he had been interviewed by officer singleton? >> yes, sir up. >> that information available to you? >> yes, i did. >> you also had the benefit of all the information, at least that which was gathered between 7:00 p.m. and you -- >> and one of the eyewitnesses, john goode. >> yes, sir. >> do you remember speaking to him? >> yes, sir. >> he had eyes on of what happened between trayvon martin and george zimmerman that night? >> yes, sir. >> and had you the benefit of that with you when you first talk to mr. zimmerman?
1:41 pm
>> yes, sir. >> so when we look at your interview, various interviews with mr. zimmerman, is it fair, then, for the jury to take it in context that you a lot of information to you at midnight that officer singleton did not have opinion -- >> we'll go right back live to the coverage after this. what makes the sleep number store different? what makes the sleep you walk into a conventional mattress
1:42 pm
store, it's really not about you. they say, "well, if you wanted a firm bed you can lie on one of those. we provide the exact individualization that your body needs. oh, yeah! once you experience it, there's no going back. while we make room for our latest innovations, save $500 to $800 on the closeout of our memory foam and iseries bed sets. plus, special financing-for one week only! only at the sleep number store. sleep number. comfort individualized.
1:43 pm
1:44 pm
welcome back to "the lead." we're watching the george zimmerman murder trial and the defense attorney is asking questions of homicide detective chris serino. let's listen in. >> and you also asked him whether or not he had lost visual of the person, correct? >> i think i stated to him that
1:45 pm
he did. i was summarizing what i had known that he had said already. >> because that had come from the singleton interview, correct? >> correct. >> any concern with that? >> no, sir. >> and then you told him at the beginning of the interview that you would like to do a walk-through or a re-creation the next day, correct? >> yes, sir. >> obviously he was mir andized, correct? >> yes, he was. >> and affirmatively waived that? >> yes, he did. >> and you advised him if he wanted to stop the interview at any point that was his right? >> officer singleton did. >> he never stopped the
1:46 pm
interview, right? >> no. >> you stopped the interview and said you had other things to do with the investigation. >> yes, sir. >> and it was briefly just a quick check-in with mr. zimmerman at that point to get some questions answered, right? >> yes, sir. >> and in any of this interview with you, and we're going to go through each one with similar questions did he evidence any anger or disdain toward mr. mart snn. >> no, sir. >> did officer singleton even tell you that he wasn't aware that trayvon martin had passed away until she told him? >> i can't recall, sir. >> the story that mr. zimmerman spoke to you about, and i know we're going to get into some
1:47 pm
other interviews that went on later, was there anything in that interview that at the point -- let me back up. i'm sorry. he was in police custody from the time that officer singleton interviewed him until the time you did, correct? >> yes, he was. >> he did not have his cell phone available, did he? >> i don't believe so. >> he did not have any access, then, to the investigation that was ongoing back at the scene? >> no, he did not. >> so would you agree, then, that he was unaware of anything that you had discovered as to what had happened at the scene? >> i can safely assume that, yes. >> i used the term that it was sort of a virgin interview, the one that he had with singleton, right? the first time anyone had got to him. that's a police technique, isn't
1:48 pm
it? you want to a shooter, a person who was at least a person of interest as soon as they can, correct in. >> yes, sir. >> before they are infected which other information? >> yes, we refer to that as locking them into the statement. >> what's the reason for that? >> so it can be as pristine as possible without being contaminated by outside influences. >> one of your primary goals as an investigator is to make sure every evidence that you can get and keep pristine is the way you want to give it, right? >> yes, sir. >> that includes pieces of evidence, correct? >> yes. >> which is why we use gloves and bags and evidence tape? >> yes, sir. >> and you want to make sure witnesses stay away from each over. you separate them, don't you, so they don't get the chance to hear what the others are saying?
1:49 pm
>> under best circumstances, yes, sir. >> we'll take a break and be right back in a moment. la's known definitely for its traffic, congestion, for it's smog. but there are a lot of people that do ride the bus. and now that the busses are running on natural gas, they don't throw out as much pollution to the earth. so i feel good. i feel like i'm doing my part to help out the environment.
1:50 pm
humans. even when we cross our "ts" and dot our "i's", we still run into problems. that's why liberty mutual insurance offers accident forgiveness with our auto policies. if you qualify, your rates won't go up due to your first accident. because making mistakes is only human, and so are we. we also offer new car replacement, so if you total your new car, we'll give you the money for a new one. call liberty mutual insurance at... and ask us all about our auto features, like guaranteed repairs, where if you get into an accident and use one of our certified repair shops, the repairs are guaranteed for life. so call... to talk with an insurance expert about everything that comes standard with our base auto policy. and if you switch, you could save up to $423. liberty mutual insurance -- responsibility.
1:51 pm
what's your policy?
1:52 pm
welcome back to "the lead." the courtroom right now is interrupted by a brief side bar. i want to continue to ask our panelists, jeffrey toobin and diane dimon questions about things earlier today. diane, it seems as though zimmerman's story has stayed consistent. whether or not you believe it is another matter but it has not really changed significantly. am i right about that? >> absolutely.
1:53 pm
and that is what his lawyer is very astutely getting this lead detective -- if there's ever a movie, i think donnie wahlberg from "blue bloods" plays this guy. he's getting him to repeat this is a pristine interview. and was zimmerman was saying was proving true from what officers found at the sooend what witnesses were saying at the scene. it's a very low key but very important line of questioning in my view. >> let's go back to the courtroom. >> you had the information available from john good, as well as other witness statements when you had this interview with mr. zimmerman, correct ? >> yes, sir. >> and you had read other statements that other witnesses had gathered together as to what they heard? >> yes, sir. >> that included mrs. lauer, who
1:54 pm
told you she heard what she heard? >> yes, sir. >> and her fiancee as well, back then her fiancee? >> yes. >> you had spoken to them yourself? >> yes, i had. >> as you were now going back to mr. zimmerman, who did not have this information available to him, tell me what concerns you had that mr. zimmerman told you that night that did not comport to the information that you were aware of? >> i had none at that time. >> did he seem to be cagey in his answering to you? did he seem to be side stepping your answers in any form or way to get around answering your direct questions? >> no, sir. >> did he seem to do anything that based upon your training and experience evidenced to you what he was being less than
1:55 pm
straight forward with you? >> no, he was being straight forward in my opinion. >> i think it was in this interview that you talked to him about the anxiety and nightmares that he was going to have because of this event? >> yes, sir. >> what do you mean by that? >> well, based on my experience, people who experience traumatic-type scenarios like he went through, they typically end up with anxiety problems. he appeared to be lacking, in my opinion, as far as what was going on, what he was in the middle of, it just seemed that something was going on with him. >> would you call that in sort of generic terms a real flat affect as to what was happening? >> generic terms, yes. >> did that cause you concern that he had in fact gone through a traumatic event and his response was a flat affect about
1:56 pm
it? >> at some point, yes, it did. >> you said to him you're going to be anxious, have nightmares, i'm going to get you some help? >> yes, i did. >> what kind of help did you mean? >> any type of help me might have needed. >> a psychological help maybe? >> after a medical exam. >> you had not had to draw your weapon and shoot and kill anyone, have you? >> no, sir, i have not. >> but certainly you know fellow officers who have? >> yes, i have. >> and it is from that experience that you understand what may happen to a person who has had to shoot and kill somebody? >> objection as to similar situation -- unsimilar situation. my objection is to relevance. >> sustained. >> may i at least be heard as to the relevance. >> relevance what may have
1:57 pm
happened to other people in other situations. >> yes, your honor. >> whatever your life experiences had been, it brought you to the interrogation room that night with mr. zimmerman suggesting to him that he was going to have anxiety and nightmares and that you would do whatever you could to help him with that, correct? >> yes, sir. >> was he cleaned up by the time that he got to you? >> yes, he was. >> did you see what he looked like at the scene? >> i had seen the picture that officer wagner had taken of him prior to -- >> may i approach the witness, your honor? just so we're clear -- >> may i approach the bench? i have an objection. >> as they go to side bar, i
1:58 pm
want to bring in jeff toobin. we were talking about this earlier, jeff, the idea that as detective serino recommended, manslaughter might have been an easier sell than the prosecutors are having right now with the evidence they're given. >> it sure is. look at this cross-examination. this detective is almost going out of his way to say, no, zimmerman was cooperative, he didn't look like he was changing his mind, he was being honest, he was being forth right. this is a dream cross-examination of a detective who interrogated your client, the defendant in the case. now, i don't think this is going to determine the outcome of the case all by itself but, boy, this detective is certainly making george zimmerman look like one cooperative suspect. and, you know, the defense
1:59 pm
attorney isle mi milking that fl its left. >> diane, any closing thoughts? >> i'm just fascinated watching this defense attorney because he's using this detective to pant his client, as jeff said, very cooperative but also a very sympathetic guy. you thought he might have anxiety, thought he was traumatized and maybe get him some help. and then he goes to put up the big, bloody picture of zimmerman and the prosecution says let's go to side bar. he's doing really good job presenting to this jury that his client was in a terrible state that night, he wasn't a cold blooded murderer out to kill somebody. >> diane, do you think that the prosecutor is doing the best job he can with the facts he's given or is he missing opportunities? >> i think he's doing okay but
2:00 pm
he could get in there and rub it in a little bit more and he's not doing that yet. >> let's reserve judgment on that. >> we'll reserve judgment, that's right. that's it for "the lead." i turn you over to wolf blitzer in "the situation room" who will continue the coverage of the george zimmerman trial. >> happening in his own words, jurors see and hear george zimmerman on tape recounting those dramatic chain of events that ended in trayvon martin's death. >> also, it's the deadliest blaze since the 9/11 attacks and the deadliest in arizona history. and former government george w. bush breaking his silence about the nsa leaker edward snowden in an exclusive interview with cnn. you'll see it and