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tv   Legal View With Ashleigh Banfield  CNN  October 9, 2013 8:00am-9:01am PDT

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be embarrassed about this? shouldn't we be ashamed? >> yes, senator mccain, you should all be ashamed of the laughing stock that you and your colleagues have made of america's fiscal affairs. and of one particularly cruelly the government shutdown has afflicted on families already at their lowest. >> what do the american people think when they see that death benefits for those who served and sacrificed in the most honorable way are not even -- their families are not even eligible for death benefits? i'm ashamed. i'm embarrassed. all of us should be. >> hello, everyone. i'm ashleigh banfield. it is october the 9th. welcome to "legal view." while the active troops are getting paid today, the families of the fallen are being told to sit tight.
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just wait for your cash payments. like funeral reimbursements and travel costs if if your loved one has died. images like these are being repeated at this hour at dover air force base. because four soldiers were killed over the weekend in afghanistan, and they are all coming home for burial. in fact, the secretary of defense himself, chuck hagel, is going to personally oversee what is called the dig a dig fieed transfer. he didn't have to get over on his own dime. his ticket is paid for. that's not the story for the families. and also happening at this hour, a house committee hearing on the increasing toll that's being taken on veteran's benefits as well. just yesterday, va furloughed thousands of workers who process
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compensation claims. barbara starr is watching all of this unfold live. i'm glad you're able to join me. these are disgraceful. but if you could just be more clear for us. what do we pay for when it comes to those death benefits and what are those families who are at their lowest suffering even more today? >> reporter: well, look. here is how it sorts out. since the wars in iraq and afghanistan, the government has paid the families of the fallen benefits like $100,000 to be paid within three days or so of a death to cover their emergency costs. reimbursement for funeral and internment expenses. travel to dover air force base to meet the flag-draped casket come off the plane. if they're loved one may be on life support in an overseas hospital and if they want to get there to be able to say good-bye. all of that, according to the
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pentagon, they cannot pay during the shutdown. behind the scenes there are efforts to find other ways to do it within the military. some, shall we say, creative bookkeeping. but this is not a solution. so the groups have stepped forward, like the fisher house, which helps the wounded. the army and navy relief society. major wall street firm that does not wand to be named offering help. but the real solution according to the pent is that congress needed to step in and have a vote. >> one of those piecemeal issues that may or may not actually pass because of the big her political question. before i even go there, i want to go back a little bit. we've got average these two fronts playing out. those bodies coming back and those families that may or may not be able to pay for the ticket to come and meet their loved one's remains. and then of course the veterans
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affairs and veterans who are going to shut down offices today. i want to play for you this. >> let me just say, that all of the events that i described and i'm going to describe of the shutdown are negative. it is an impediment to va's ability to deliver the serves and benefits that veterans have earned through their service. the va continues to invest significant resources and time and planning for this unique, infrequent, and avoidable situation. the ongoing shutdown presents a myriad of challenges. the last time a shutdown occurred in 1996, as i am told, our nation was enjoying a sustained period of relative peace. that's not true today. >> no it sure isn't true today. but that doesn't mean that we don't have 4 million veterans
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and their families who rely on these benefits. but maybe even more acutely, the secretary of defense is headed to dover to meet these remains. this is very unusual. can you put that in context for me, barbara? >> reporter: well, there are a few times in the past when secretaries of defense have tramped to dover. the president of the united states has traveled to dover to pay their respects to the families of the fallen. but i think, it's fair to say, make no mistake, chuck hagel went today to send a message to washington and bring this matter to public attention. this is very much worth remembering that chuck hagel is a highly decorated, wounded veteran of very heavy combat in the vietnam war himself. these men, despite the politics, feel these issues very deeply about the wounded. and to make clear here, the -- for centuries, the u.s. government has had a compact with those who serve.
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if you stand in front of an enemy position and will willing to take a bullet for the country, we will look after you and we will look after your family. >> well, let's hope that we're good on our word on so many levels. barbara starr, thank you, so much. still with this vein, my next guest lost her brother in iraq and now works with t.a.p.s. she joins us now. thank you for doing this and taking the time to speak with me. you could hear with some of the comments were from the secretary. but are you at all encouraged by his appearance, by his testimony, and by what year seeing in the bigger picture on capitol hill that there's going to be some fix to this? >> i think the secretary made very compelling remarks about the real impact that the government shutdown is having on veterans and surviving families.
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and i -- we are hopeful that, you know, a resolution will be reached soon. in the interim, you know, t.a.p.s. is here to provide care and support for the grieving military families. there's been 17 active duty deaths since the government shutdown began. >> you don't normally have to do work like this. it feels as if this is not the kind of effort you should be putting forth. normally you deal with the bereavement. do you feel like you're a built of a fish out of water and that you should not be in this predicament? >> we've always offered case work assistance, it's typically on an individual case by case basis. and we have a full-time staff of three social workers who actually manage that program and work with families if they need additional support in some way. you know, many surviving family members are actually not
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typically beneficiaries of government benefits. so there is always a population within our community that does sometimes need additional support. >> and at the same time we theory that the charitable support is coming forward to bridge the gap until perhaps congress can get out of their ridiculous game and get reimburs reimbursed. are you getting help at least through charity? >> we've received a number of phone calls from organizations and individuals and reached out who said they would like to assist military families who are grieving. and we have been compiling a list in our case work development. organization like the army relief society has stepped forward. and navy marine corps society
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has also stepped forward. and they're coming together to help and support these families. >> thank you again for your time. especially since this is an ongoing hearing and you've taken the time to come out of it and talk to us. we do appreciate it. and the best of luck to you and your group and all of those who served our country and continue to do so. thanks. >> thank you so much. >> the president and the treasury secretary, an army of economists, even warren buffett, they all say it's catastrophic if the united states default on its debt. but there are those who beg to differ. year going to hear their view in just a moment. oear going to hear their view in just a moment. uear going to in just a moment. 'ear going to w in just a moment. rear going to view in just a moment. ear going view in just a moment. ar going view in just a moment. r going tw in just a moment. going to hear in just a moment. i wanna be a pilot. [ woman ] i'd be an architect. what if i told you someone could pay you and what t person were you? ♪
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nthat's why they deserve... aer be suranbrake dance.our doctor get 50% off new brake pads and shoes. if you haven't taken a look at your 401(k) in the past couple of days, you should. actually, maybe don't. the stocks are taking a real hit due to the shutdown and the debt crisis. there's the big board. we're down 34. actually looked like we were going to have a better day today. but so far the morning trading
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has been -- law make hes on capitol hill is saying so what? we still wouldn't fall into economic disaster if the debt ceiling isn't raised. here's what they said on "new day" today. >> and the problem is we continue to kick it down the road. and when it doesn't, that's when the ka tas toefy comes. i'd rather have a managed -- it's default equals not raising the debt ceiling. that's not true. that is not true. those are two -- those are two different and distinct things. >> okay. again, it's my fault. the media. and christine romans, i'm going to put it on her instead. she's back with me to talk about this back and fords. seemingly endless back and forth.
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>> stock markets are tumbling as the death ceiling deadline looms and the government remains partially shutdown. and you may start feeling the repercussions. lawmakers talking to the country. >> the greatest nation on earth shouldn't have to get permission from a few irresponsible members of coming every couple of months to keep our government open. >> reporter: as the president spoke, the selling continued. the dow dropping 159 points by tuesday's close. >> ke can't raise the debt ceiling without doing something about what's driving us to borrow more money and live beyond our means. >> reporter: the dow is down 2.75%. >> we're the most important economy in the world. we'll the reserve currency in the world. payments have to go out to people if money doesn't flow in, then money doesn't flow out.
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>> the way forward is not easy. it requires a lot of sacrifice and flexibility. compromise. we expect the same will happen with the political architecture. >> reporter: star buck's ceo has written an open letter asking for an end to the gridlock. saying he's disappointed by the level of irresponsibility with our leadership. the debt ceiling debate is the biggest threat to your investments. >> so the debt ceiling really doesn't make any sense. it ought to be banned as a weapon. it should be like nuclear bombs, basically, too horrible to use. >> the result of the government's inaction could be bad, while the world waits for a solution, your money hangs in the balance. >> and christine romans is with me. your money hangs in the balance. people saying we've got plenty of money and plenty of ways to issue bonds. and others say we're all going to die. >> you heard tom coburn say
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earlier that default does not equal not racing the debt ceilings. we have enough money to pay the interest on our bonds. no matter how i run the numbers, you still fall short. are you going to pay seniors ious, are you not going to pay federal workers? >> how do you prioritize. >> that is what's so scary. >> because of this uncertainty, we have numbers like this. we see a board between christine and me, we're down 40.65 now. but typically, wall street backs gop. now they don't. >> isn't that interesting. and so many people, like me, who have covered business for a very long time, for the first time people with saying the gop is no longer the party of business. it was a major, major money manager yesterday who told me, wow, it used to be when you had to go to someone on capitol hill who know how the system or financing works, it was the gop
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explaining it to democrats. this time it's the other way around. it's business leaders going to the gop and saying, okay, look, this is how the government is financed, this is why we have to raise the debt ceiling. >> i have to wrap up there. but not before i'm going close up, saying help me janet yellen. >> she's been called the most qualified person ever to be nominated for fed chief. >> and hopefully that will calm things. we've got another story that we're following big time. and that is the bits and pieces of video that you've been watching on your screen play out on that horrible attack on suv by bikers in new york. but investigators have a lot more video that you haven't seen and analyzing it big time to see if an undercover new york cop was part of this attack.
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we're learning of yet another arrest in that terrible biker assault. an all-out assault on an suv driver in manhattan. this time, though, this is not a
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run of the mill arrest. it's different. this latest arrest involves an undercover police officer off duty and there's new video as well as far asing. you may not have seen this, but it is 'really tough to watch it. you can see the bikers kicking the victim as we lies bloody on the ground. susan candiotti reports from outside the white house in new york. >> reporter: as we learn of even more arrests, online video like this, painful to watch. a biker seen kicking suv driver lying motionless and bloodied on the ground before trying to get up. an off-cute undercover detective now under arrest. a 32-year-old man who was riding with other bikers in this video gone viral. the camera showing an suv driver running over bikers after his
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tires railroad slashed. the off-duty cop is charged with two felonies, criminal mischief and being involved in a riot. >> internal affairs bureau is looking at this and they'll continue to do so. >> reporter: another biker also charged with gang assault and criminal mischief. a law enforcement source says police have video of the detective not yet made public proving he took part. it also says he waited three days before reporting the incident. paul callan says the detective could also lose his job even if he's not convicted. >> as police officers, they have an obligation under nypd regulations to break their offer, if they're undercover, and to come to the assistance of any civilian who is in danger. and having looked at this video,
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clearly the civilians in that car look like they're in danger. >> reporter: police also released photos of four other bikers in connection with the attack. the frames were isolated showing him getting stomped on. as for the biker wearing the video cam, he's now revealing why he pressed the record button. he said he saw the driver throw a water bottle out and hit a biker. he smelled trouble. he's not expected to be charged. >> i just wanted to let you know that there a statement that the district attorney has released on this case in new york. let me read it for you. the nypd and district attorney's office are methodically scrutinizing the evidence to build the strongest possible cases in our continuing effort to hold accountable those responsible. paul callan who you saw joins me live now. when i see that, i think of more
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arrests potentially to come. bit of a no-brainer. but then i also was curious about the police officer who was not charged with gang assault like four of the others. why is that? >> it's very interesting. they charged him with riot. which is an entirely different theory. this is an felony, an e felly. he's facing many years in prison. but they don't have to prove he was part of a gang. he engaged in conduct which constitutes a riot, puts the public in a state of alarm. and they seem to be going it that theory. and when i hear the spokesman for the manhattan d.a.'s office say what she said, there's a lot more we're going to hear about. >> and i guarantee you we'll see more video whether before or after it hits the court room. stick around. i've got other questions for you in a moment.
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but could we be on the verge of some kind of resolution in this partial government shutdown? there is a big meeting scheduled a little bit later today at the white house. a big invitation went out to dozens and dozens of members. but is that going to mean anything when the republicans say, they need to be talked to. it's a meeting of democratic caucus. we're going ask them who are going to be face to face, next. f & dumplings. hearty cheeseburger. creamy thai style chicken with rice. tdemocratic caucus. we're going ask them who are going to be face to face, next. caucus. we're going ask them who are going to be face to face, next. c caucus. we're going ask them who are going to be face to face, next. . m'm! m'm! good!
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to speak with speaker boehner. >> as you awe know, i had a phone call with the president of the united states this morning. >> having such a conversation, talks, negotiations sh shouldn't require hanging the threats of a government shutdown or economic chaos over the heads of the american people. >> i have to say i was disappointed that the president refuses to negotiate. >> let's stop the excuses. let's take a vote in the house. let's end this shutdown right now. >> the president's position that, listen, we're not going to sit down and talk to you until you surrender is just not sustainable. it's not our system of government. >> the greatest nation on earth shouldn't have to get permission from a few members of congress every couple of months just to keep our government open or prevent an economic catastrophe. >> there's never been a president in our history that did not negotiate over the debt limit. >> i'm not budging when it comes to the full faith and credit of the united states. >> we can't raise the debt
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ceiling without doing something about what's driving us to borrow more money and live beyond our means. >> and this is the credit worthiness of the united states that we're talking about. this is our work. this is our good name. this is real. >> i diplomat come here to shut down the government. i certainly didn't come here to default on our debt. >> we're not going to pay a ransom for america paying its bills. >> this isn't be me or republicans. this is about saving the future for our kids and grandkided. >> there's a way to solve this, it has to include re-opening the government and saying america is not going to default and pay our bills. >> it's time to that have conversation. not -- not next week, not next month. the conversation ought to start today. >> we can't make ex-extortion routine as part of our deck crazy. democracy doesn't function this way. >> what the president said today was, if there's unconditional surrender by republicans, he'll sit down and talk to us.
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that's not the way our government works. >> well, guess what? what you're doing is also not how government works. because it ain't working. i want to bring in democratic representative joseph cauley and rep senator. thank you very much for joining me. let me get to the meat of all of this. there is a meeting at 4:00. the white house has invited the democratic caucus to come to the white house. you are the vice chair of that caucus. i want to know what that meeting is about. i figured it would be republicans who would be invited to the white house. is this about a schism in the democratic party over a possible short-term debt deal? i know some democrats want a long-term debt deal. does it have to do with that? >> no, ashleigh, there's no schism in our party at all. we want to get our government
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back up and operating. let's be clear. the reason we're in this shutdown is because my republican colleagues do not want millions of americans to have health care. that hasn't changed. we will not relitigate nor religion late that issue. there was an election last year and the american people decided they wanted to see us move forward. if it's about creating jobs or how many we will create or not create, i think democrats are open to those negotiations. >> let me ask you if, if i can, gentlemen. i know that some of your colleagues, congressman crowley, sent a letter and asked that the congressional gem and spa be closed until the shutdown is over, making some kind of an allegation that perhaps speaker boehner doesn't want the congressional gym closed. here is a quick comment from a democratic representative from oregon.
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have a listen to what he has to say about it. >> well, that's true. it doesn't cost very much. but it costs. the electricity, the hot water, the towels. they're not provided by gym fairies. they're provided by taxpayers. >> so congress sutherland, is there any truth to the fact that the speaker doesn't want the gym closed? and maybe the bigger question, is this getting so incredibly petty? >> i think it is petty. and by the way, let the record show that i do not have a gym membership. so -- but i have not had a conversation with the speaker. i think he spoke loud and clear this morning that it is time for adults to come together, to have a conversation, to make sure that this government is open in providing the services that the american people deserve and expect. so i think that for people to raise issues over the gym and -- i think is somewhat petty. but i think the speaker spoke
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loud and clear. and i'm standing with him. and i think just as my friend joe mentioned that he claimed that the democrats are unified, i will tell you, the 35 months that i've been here i've never seen the republican conference as unified on the principle that all of us were created equally. >> really? i'm receipting different newspapers than you are. >> i bet you and i would agree on that. >> you're adorable. i happen to read them all. but thanks for the accusation. let me lay a few out at you and challenge you right back. number one, paul ryan wrote, we need to pay our bills today and make sure we can pay our bills tomorrow. so let's negotiate an agreement to make modest reforms to the entitlement programmed and the tax code again. again, laudable. but then came the other
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republican member who is making a lot headlines. ted cruz's senior vider tweeting in response to that. there is one big word missing from this op-ed. it starts with an "e" and ends with obama care. so my question is that sounds like a fissure in your party. that there is infighting in your party. what happened to obama care? i thought that's what this was all about. >> let me answer your question. i listened to -- or read paul's story this morning. and also saw him on a subsequent interview. and he said, look, that the health care bill is an entitlement. when he mentions all entitlements, that certainly is going to clue health care going forward. and by the way, i know senator cruz, we are a buy cam ral form of government.
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i look to our republican conference in the house of representatives. and we are unified. so you would have to ask senator cruz questions about the senate. but i can speak for the house of representatives, we're very unified. >> i'm not going to let you off the hook, because you're smiling. >> i always smile. >> i'm told to always smile on camera. >> let me ask you this question. from the democratic standpoint, joe biden has been a bit awall. a lot of people say we haven't seen hide nor hair of him. and sources are saying that harry reid said, keep biden out of it. he gives away too much. from the democratic perspective, is that true and isn't that really lousy to have that, if it is true, that opinion? >> look, that's the first i heard of that. i think the vice president and the president are working very closely together. in fact, i'm sure the vice
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president will be there this afternoon when we meet at the white house. and really, what this is -- this is not about members of congress. all the gimmicks, all these other issues, it really comes back to one issue. that is, once again, i said, this is all about shutting down the government to prevent millions of americans getting health care. we can't change that story as much as people want to do that. and i think the vice president and president understand that as well. >> i don't think i got an answer to my question. i'm so flat out of time. it's been a pleasure to talking to both of you. >> we talk a lot. >> yeah. >> shake hands. it's become a tradition. there we go. it looks great to see you like this. thanks very much, gentlemen. so we are seeking a solution to the debt ceiling crisis. unless you've been living under a rock, you would know that by now. but does it lie in a tricky little maemtd in our u.s.
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i want to take you live now to some pictures tho most people would really rather not see, but really should see. dover air force base. that's where the bodies of four us soldiers who are killed over the weekend in afghanistan are going to be coming home. you've got five pictures there, but four of those bodies will be returning to dover. this is what you call a dignified transfer. that's the word that the military uses. a dignified transfer. and it is particularly heightened today because the secretary of the defense himself is going to be there. chuck hagel. we've been reporting all along that this is more than likely because of the partial government shutdown.
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because it has meant that the families of those fallen heroes are not getting the normal death benefits that they should be. including the money that it takes to get them to dover so they can meet the remains of their loved ones. this is so troubling. i'm not sure how many families of those four at least have been able to make it there on their own dime or if you've even been able to get the story. this is such an unpleasant story that i'm sure the government doesn't want us to have. >> reporter: hi. >> athena, i'm sorry -- i'm sorry. harry reid is speaking. this isn't something we expected. i'll return to you in a moment. let's check in on the head of the senate. i'm sorry, we're just trying to get that tape in. but the senate majority leader harry reid is apparently taking to the mic very unexpected. >> and my republican friends should take yes for an answer. we're ready to go to conference. we have simple, simple requests.
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open the government, let us pay our bills. the we'll negotiate on anything you want to negotiate on. we're going to hear from the maryland delegation led by you know who and then we'll hear from the virginia delegation led by, you'll find out. [ laughter ] >> good morning, everybody. we want to re-open government. we want to make sure that america pays its bills. and we're ready to negotiate as we have been doing in the past. for those of us in maryland, we want to re-open government so that the 130,000 federal employees who live and work in maryland can go back to work to do their job. we want to re-open government so that we re-open small business, all of the small business throughout our state who near
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our military facilities that are now stressed and stretched because they don't have customers. we want to re-open government because we are the home to 08 major federal agencies headquartered in maryland. serving not only maryland, but serving the nation and serving the world. we are the home to the headquarters for social security. we are the home for the headquarters for medicare. we're the home for the headquarters for the national security agency. we're the headquarters for the fda. we work together with virginia. we have the space agency. in weren't maryland, we have a federal prison. we want to re-open federal government so it serves the nation. this isn't just about federal employees. this is also about local business. and it's also impacting the world. let me just talk about two agencies in maryland.
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let's talk about the food and drug administration headquart headquartered in maryland. 8,500 employees work there. it is a comeback neighborhood because of the presence of fda working with nih coming up with the -- working on the clinical trials for biotech products and medical devices. but it also stands century on counterfeit drugs. this is how it's serving the nation and the world. the fda has furloughed, 45% of the people are furloughed. we don't have people on the job monitoring counterfeit drug imports on our border and coming from china. 40% of all the drugs taken in the united states are manufactured overseas of the right now we've had to cancel inspections in china and india.
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why is that so important? just a few years ago, faulty products coming in from blood thinners from china sickened 800 people and killing 81. my drug inspectors want to be on the job ensuring the safety of the supply chain that when you take a drug, that that drug is safe to take and you won't die because your regulators are not on the job. open up the fda serving the nation and serving the world. this is what we want to be able to do. and then over there in woodlawn is the associate security administration and the medicare administration. though we are headquartered there, serving the nation, serving the world. there are 8,000 federal employees at those agencies that have been furloughed. that means the processing the disability checks, the processing of he will ga ability
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of social security and also the very unit that goes after waste and fraud in medicare has been furloughed. now, when you have your social security funded, it's not only in woodlawn, maryland, every social security -- there's social security offices in every place around the united states of america. open up the social security administration. keep the lights burning so that people who have earned benefits can apply and get the right answers and making sure that those who go after fraud in the medicare program, fraud in the social security program are standing century to make sure that only those who get it, should get it. that's what social security administration is. and right down the street -- >> we were dipping into the step of the capitol hill where the democratic senate leader are beginning a conference.
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i thought the house is doing the same thing. it's the senate news conference. and this is happening over and over and over. from the top leadership on down. i want to take you back to dover, if it i can, for a moment. where i had to very rudely interrupt athena jones. why i want to get you back there, there are four people that we need to honor. we have five pictures on the screen, but four of those members, they're remains are set to be brought back to dover today. cody patterson, patrick hawkins, jennifer moreno, and joseph peters, all four of those. we have to say what are believed to be their remains. they have not yet been officially identified. that will happen once they hit u.s. soil. athena jones you're on sight
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there. were they able to get the family members there today? any of them? >> reporter: well, there will be family members here. i will tell you that they're not paying to these families because of the shutdown. those clue $100,000 that go to these families within three days of losing a family member, as well as travel expenses and burial expenses. i can tell you that a group that serves veterans, the fibber house, has stepped in to help pay for some of these families to be able to come here and be here today. fibber house says they'll be paid back once this is all sorted out. the issue here is that the pentagon says that the law that was passed just before the shutdown began to pay our military act that made sure that troops were going to get paid, that does not give them the authorization to pay out these death benefits.
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this is something that has caused a rare moment of bipartisan agreement on capitol hill. you've got . who have sworn an oath to protect and defend america, to abandon these families at this moment. so the house later on today at 2:00 p.m. will plan to vote on a bill that will fix this. it's hard to say what will happen to the bill, whether it will be taken up by the senate and we've asked the white house whether the senate will sign it. john mccain says that senators should be ashamed and embarrassed of themselves. harry reid also said that republicans should just reopen the government. so they are saying they can reopen the government, end this shutdown, solve this problem all at once, ashleigh. >> athena jones, thank you. as you were speaking, i was able
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to get the name of the fifth fallen hero. his name is jeremiah collins. he will be joining the others as all five of their remains make it back home to american soil to be repatriated. who knows if they will have to pay for the burial themselves. we're back after this. [ paper rustles, outdoor sounds ] ♪ [ male announcer ] laura's heart attack didn't come with a warning. today her doctor has her on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one. if you've had a heart attack, be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen.
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so short of fairy dust, how on earth do you get the money to blow your bills if you blow past the debt ceiling? if you pull out a copy of the constitution, there's a strange suggestion in there that might just work. or would it? that's why i brought in jeff toobin and candy crowley. the legal aspect of the 14th amendment, what is it and could it be used by the president? >> most of us learned in high school, under article 1 congress appropriates money. >> that's article 1? >> that's the rule of how the american constitution works. >> and then it was amended? >> correct. in the 14th amendment there is a provision that says the public debt of the united states shall not be questioned. now, no one knows precisely what that means but there is one school of thought developing and it's just a theory now that the
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president, under the 14th amendment, could simply pay the debts of the budget, sign the executive order, pay money that congress has not authorized under his power under the 14th amendment. the president yesterday and the administration previously has thrown cold water on this idea. i don't think it's going to happen. it's very unclear whether it could be done. it would certainly create whole new certain uncertainties. >> some say no, it can be litigated. it could work. however, there's the political reality of this, candy. >> and the political reality, i agree with jeff, is unlikely to happen. but everything is unlikely to happen until it does. the president clearly doesn't want to give congress any way out. that's why they set the 17th deadline. they are saying, here's the only
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way we can get through this. the political reality for the president is the more we see this go on, the more we see the numbers eroding. i was surprised when i saw the first polls and when people were asked who do they hold at fault, there was only a nine-point gap between republicans and democrats. we're seeing it close a little bit more. >> yesterday we talked about that. we had one poll with an 11-point spread and this week a poll that had a 6-point spread. a huge erosion. >> we've talked about this, too, and that is that at some point if no one budges an inch, there has to be a point when someone, whether it's the president or speaker of the house comes out and goes, the other guy is completely wrong but i am not willing to do this and therefore, here's what i'm going to do. >> jeffrey toobin, i only have 15 seconds left but i want to
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ask you about the magical trillion dollar coin that legally again can be minted and solve the problem but -- >> again, the president could do that in theory unilaterally. the idea of a trillion dollar coin solving the problem would open the country and the president to ridicule. perhaps it would save a financial meltdown but the president, as candy says, doesn't want to give congress any sort of leeway that would let them off the hook and not resolve it in the right way. >> i like how you said the ridiculousness of it like the ridiculousness of our debt. we're out of time. "around the world" is next and it starts after this break. have a good day. [ male announcer ] this is jim,
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hearty cheeseburger. creamy thai style chicken with rice. mexican-style chicken tortilla. if you think campbell's 26 new soups sound good, imagine how they taste. m'm! m'm! good! welcome. i'm suzanne malveaux. >> and i'm michael holmes. the partial government shutdown is pushing hard on people who are dealing with the most heartbreaking experience that you can imagine. >> we're talking about the military men and women who lose their lives. as a consequence of the shutdown that lawmakers say they did not intend. this is what is going on. when much of the government, they don't get the financial assistance that they normally would during this

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