tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN October 9, 2013 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT
never shy about expressing his opinions and knows a lot on the current shutdown, tondonald tru. the donald tomorrow on the art of the deal. that's all for tonight. good evening everyone. tonight, why the white house and lawmakers were shocked, shocked families of fallen soldiers are not getting death benefits should not be surprised. everyone had ample warning at their disposal on the record. tonight, keeping them honest. another arrest in the biker attack and growing questions about the police officers who were there including one whose accused of taking part. and later, allegations of a cover-up in a young man's death and allegations this was not an accident and a second revelation on the autopsy of this young man that could blow the case wide open. one incredibly heart wrenching consequence of the government shutdown, something
that is tormenting people that are hurting beyond words. families of fallen soldiers not getting death benefits. a private charity agreeing to step up and help but the public servants howling with outrage and surprise over it had at least two specific warnings about it. they had every reason to know this was going to happen, the warnings were on the record. secretary hagel went to observe the return of four soldiers killed in afghanistan. under ordinary circumstances, their families would be there at the taxpayer's expense, the cost defrayed by $100,000 in military death benefits, money so they could come to dover to bring their loved one back home or to a military cemetary to pay for the funeral. it's the least they can do. when the shutdown began the payments stopped. when the stories of suffering began the officials and elected representatives began lining up to voice their outrage. >> i'm ashamed. i'm embarrassed. >> a great injustice. >> appalling. >> frightening.
>> i think it's disgrace ful. >> the president was very disturbed. >> outrageous. we will not stand for this outrage. >> for shame. >> some of those voices belong to lawmakers who opposed the moves that led to a government shutdown, some are from people that put us on the path we're on. keeping them honest, they were warned specifically this would happen. today a house speaker boehner spokesman said our staff did not receive communication from the department of defense on this top pick until after we had passed the bill. speaker boehner and any lawmaker could know. on september 27th the pentagon sent a memo on who gets hurt in a shutdown. one item reading, quote, we won't be able to pay some bills during the shutdown. no death benefits can be paid to any family members until the shutdown ends. on that same day the pentagon's comptroller briefed reporters.
>> we would be required to do other bad things to our people. examples, we couldn't pay death gratuities for those who die on active duty during the lapse. >> anyone who is angry now shouldn't be that surprised. as a private charity steps in to fill the gap, lawmakers wanting to vent their outrage can always go through these doors and blow off steam at the congressional gym. because shutdown or not, while hundreds of thousands of americans are furloughed, keeping that gym up and running is deemed essential. it remains open. there was other developments on ending this mess. dana bash joins us. there is a rare phenomenon on the hill, actual bipartisan talks. what do you know? >> reporter: there are bipartisan talks, but i don't want to burst your bubble and make you think this is actually going down pennsylvania avenue in any official way. washington is still broken, don't worry, anderson, nothing has changed. in all seriousness, there are
lots of discussions that have been going on for days, sort of on the senate floor, on the house floor, off the house floor. to be clear, they are informal discussions going on among likely suspects that do come up with deals that ultimately see fruition. susan collins on the republican side, people like that. for the most part as one senior democratic source said to me, people are -- have a lot of time on their hands right now because there is nothing else to do and everybody wants to be the one to save the republic. >> paul ryan did put forward some ideas in an op-ed. how seriously is that being taken? >> reporter: you know, the truth is, as you like to say on this show, keeping them honest, not so much on the short term. because what paul ryan said were things we heard from republicans for awhile. the idea of tax reform, the idea of entitlement reform and more, but that is not something that anybody, really, in the represent can leadership thinks they can achieve in the short
term, which is really what we're talking about here. the much more likely scenario, if there is any option right now, is what you and i talked about last night, which is the six-week stopgap debt ceiling increase, and that is the time they'll have to negotiate. it's unclear how much they can get done that paul ryan and others are suggesting, big picture and big changes in entitlements and so forth. >> there was a meeting between house democrats. you got news from a lawmaker that attended. what came out of it? >> that's right, a democratic lawmaker i spoke with said the president was more firm in his commitment to having that temporary six-week increase in the debt ceiling than he has at all in public. he's signalled it in public but much more clear in private and the reason he said he would be willing to do this if weapon cans agreed is because -- this is a quote -- if that's what boehner needs to climb out of the tree he's stuck in,
that's something we should look at. the fact the president is signaling this to house democrats could be yet another sign this is where the exit strategy is going, in fact, this democratic lawmaker said that's how he came out of the meeting feeling. however, as we said, there is no direct conversations so we're not sure how far it can get. but house republicans, the leadership and key committee chairmen will go to the white house tomorrow and invited the cause cut and leadership said no, we won't do that. we'll bring people we think can actually have the negotiations republicans have been demanding. >> thanks very much. appreciate it. steve king of iowa is a hard liner in the government shutdown and debt ceiling. he told chris that talk of the default if the country doesn't raise the debt ceiling is wrong. thank you for coming. >> thank you very having me. >> the idea of a possible maybe gl
gli glimmer of a solution, is that something you would at all support? >> at this point i don't think so. i would look at it and read it through and see what we have if we're making progress with any length of time that one might extend the debt ceiling. i'm not one that said i'll never vote to raise the debt ceiling but it should be comparable. the problem we have is a risk of the problem we ever is a risk of -- and i've been warning about it for a week -- conflicting the issues for this partial shutdown, needing a cr to get the government going again compared to the debt ceiling when those two things, if they come together, we won't be able to define the difference between the two because already they are conflicting the style. i want to separate them and resolve the issue with the c.r. and i don't think there is an emergency on the debt ceiling. we are spending less than 10% of the revenue to service the debt and this alarm about default is false. >> the plan that paul ryan wrote made no mention of defunding or delaying obama care. to you does that make it just a
non-starter? >> i don't want to say non-starter because he's talking about the debt ceiling versus the c.r., one of the two. but this c.r. has been about obama care and shutting off the funding to implement or enforce obama care, and i wrote that language back in february of 2011. i am invested in it deeply and i think it's important we hold the line, and yet, if we cannot actually contemplate the idea we would go on forever and not increase the debt ceiling. so let's make sure the conditions are right for each one of them. for me if the entitlement reforms are strong enough, i'll take a good look at it. better yet, if we bring a balanced budget amendment to the constitution through the house and the senate and send it to the states where 38 would have to ratify, that would be something that would cause me to take a real good look at a debt ceiling because that's where the problem is. this congress doesn't have the discipline to balance the budget and start to pay down the national debt. a balanced budget would bring that discipline. that's what the president fears. if he opposes a balanced budget
amendment to our constitution, i realize he doesn't get a vote on it. if he says i won't negotiate with you, he's saying i never want to see the federal government compelled to live within its means. >> try and answer this for me because i asked this to a couple people and haven't quite got an answer i can understand. republicans are saying there is no point in bringing this up for a clean c.r., for a vote on this in the house, that it wouldn't pass. democrats are continuing to call for that or bring it up for a vote, bring it up for a vote. it will pass. there are republicans that would support as well as, obviously, a lot of democrats. why not, from your standpoint, why not, if you feel confident that it would not pass, why not bring it up for a vote, for a clean vote, and let it fail, and that way you take away that strategic argument from the democrats? >> i wouldn't argue that a c.r., as they describe it is clean and i don't think it's clean at all that it wouldn't pass.
we said this -- >> so you think it might pass. >> i think it might pass. we have a constitutional obligation, we have constitutional authority to start the spending in the house, to start the taxation in the house, anything that generates revenue and that's setup so the house of representatives as a quick reaction force will hold the president in check or the senate in the interest of the people. we have a full constitutional responsibility to do that, and we should remember that obama care was passed on a purely partisan agenda on the narrowest of margins, and i often said thomas jefferson said large initiatives should not be advanced on slender majorities. it was not just a slender majority but a purely partisan majority. the american people rejected obama care and elected us to the house of representatives to put an end to it, and this is the leverage point, this is where we need to make the stand, anderson. >> you're a big believer in the constitution, obviously, as everybody in this country is or
should be. i mean, that's what our constitution calls for, a majority vote, the majority passed obama care was a slender majority, as you say. you say it's very possible a majority in the house would pass a so-called clean cr. isn't that constitutional the way the system works? >> remember, though, the constitution also says the speaker will be elected to be the speaker of the whole house and that the majority controls the house of representatives, that's also the structure for government and they determine the things that will be debated and voted upon and that always hasn't made me happy, either. i had my frustrations with the system. we're trying to bring out the will of the people. and we should think also that even though we're into the eighth or ninth day of this partial shutdown, and there have been some really tough spots, especially seeing those caskets come off there at dover, those are some really tough things to see. even with all that, however it's settled, the lid is on prurt co --
the pressure cooker, the clamps are down, the pressure goes up every day, and the american people will decide this. as they dial back and forth, they'll call their members of congress, they'll write their letters to the editor, and in the end it will be the american people who sort this out. in the end, this is a constitutional issue. the president cannot be allowed to legislate by edict, and we are the institution. the president has changed obama care at least twice since the supreme court decided it was constitutional. we can't let that go on, either, anderson, otherwise the president has taken over the article 1 powers of the congress. >> congressman, i appreciate you being on tonight. thank you. >> thanks for having me. john king joins me and gloria borger and david gurrigan. he thinks sort of the idea of this doomsday scenario about not raising the debt is made up or overstated. >> well, anderson, you got a little support from moodies that
issued a report saying they thought we could pay our debts, even if we go into default we could pay our bond holders, but overwhelming sentiment from all the big banks, from the ceos, from manufacturers, from economists, from the international communities, you don't want to go down that path. it's extraordinarily dangerous. you already put a gun to the president's head and now you're putting a gun to the country's head. it's playing russian roulette and the congressman king can say whatever he wants but the vast majority of people who really understand this issue are warning seriously do not allow this country to go into default. it could have very, very calamitous consequences and throw a lot of people out of work. >> david, you do see signs of a real breakthrough from what the president said yesterday about a short-term extension and what paul ryan wrote in today's wall street journal. you think there is a possibility
of traction there? >> i do, anderson. beneath the rhetoric which remains hot, we had two concessions now. the president made a concession by saying he's willing to take a short-term extension of the debt ceiling in order to let negotiations get started. that's a big concession and republicans ought to grab it. paul ryan has come along and said, in such negotiations, we ought to talk about entitlement reform and tax reform but he did not talk about health reform. in other words, he's not insisted that obama care demolition is -- would have to be part of the negotiation. that gives both sides a chance to have a six or eight-week pause, and i talked to a major leader in the house republican side who believes if they can get that pause, there would be enough votes among republicans to work with democrats to support it and get into a negotiation. >> john, had the house gop leadership heading the white house tomorrow as dana was talking about, do you also see the possibility of some sort of a breakthrough? >> i think any time they get in the room, it's a good thing.
they need to start talking. now some will say it's talking, some will say it's negotiating. i'll leave that to them. the american people think they need to get in a room and figure it out. i do think it's possible. because i think the president understands, like it or not, he can win in the short term by blaming republicans, but unless he helps speaker boehner out of this mess, his second term agenda is gone. they need each other until the midterm elections and you'll find people that think the democrats can take the house back. they may not like or trust each other but they need each other at the moment. the reason i'm a bit skeptical is the conversation you just had with congressman king. paul ryan was once a hero to the conservatives in the house because they thought he would get out there on fiscal issues and demand reform and demand things beyond what many established republicans calling for, but now you have steve king saying, i'm not so sure, and you have ted cruz on the senate side saying, if it doesn't have obama care, i'm not for it.
so the reason i'm still skeptical is republicans haven't completely sorted out their own problems yet, let alone their questions for the president. >> gloria, for house republicans like congressman king, i mean, they ran on defunding or getting rid of the affordable care act. >> yeah, i mean, this is -- you know, this is their reason for being -- they came out of congress saying they are going to defund obama care, doesn't matter what the supreme court did. they believe it's bad for the economy, they believe it it's bad for the country, and this was a strategy not hatched by paul ryan. paul ryan is not part of this defunding obama care. it was hatched by what i call the hell no caucus among house republicans and they are the ones saying to john boehner, you know, we don't want you to give in. so now you have this compromise you're talking about, a short term extension perhaps, but what i hear congressman king saying, which is so interesting to me is that maybe they could come up with some short-term compromise on the debt ceiling, because that's so dangerous, but in a way, still keep the government
closed and not compromise on that and still tie obama care to that, so it's a little bit of have your cake and eat it, too. >> yeah, gloria borger, appreciate you being on, david gergen. >> you can follow me on twitter at anderson cooper. the death of a young man named kendrick johnson, the official report calls it an accident. new evidence points to foul play and revelations about the treatment of his body are almost unspeakable. another exclusive, one of the survivors in the terrorist massacre in kenya. the woman in that photo is talking about her ordeal. >> i remember her looking at me and saying, are we going to die? it was actually the first time i was thinking to myself, i think we are, and i told her, i think we are going to. ...for the year. hi. sorry.
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welcome back, breaking news, a seventh arrest after a new york city police detective arraigned in criminal court accused of being part of a group of motorcyclists that pulled the driver out of his suv and beating him in the street. the officer seen leaving court hurdled under a black hooded sweat shirt was charged with assault, gang assault and criminal mischief. the detective shashed the back window of the suv. his defense attorney denies that. the undercover detective was off duty.
susan candiotti joins us with the latest. they just announced another arrest. what do we know about it? >> we don't know very much other than this is another civilian biker and he's also charged with gang assault among other charges. we know that he's 31 years old. his name is james cuney from the new york area. they haven't released anything else about him. this makes seven people charged by the manhattan district attorney's office in the last ten days, anderson. >> the arraignment of the undercover police officer, what are some of the details of it? >> very interesting. we are learning about the charges. as you said, he allegedly smashed reert window of the suv and kicked it. however, the defense attorney is saying the prosecutors have it all wrong, and, in fact, he claimed that the video will, as he put it, exonerate his client. but i'm learning more about the details of the questioning of that off-duty undercover
detective. i am told that when he first came in, he was telling different stories. first, i am told he implied that he was working in undercover detail and that he didn't want to blow his cover. and then i'm told that he allegedly said he didn't really see the assault. then the investigators said they found all kinds of video evidence that, in fact, he was an active player, showing him allegedly smashing that rear window as well as kicking it. >> hmm. what did you learn about the other undercover police officer who is allegedly involved in this? >> new details about that, too. i am told he was riding -- he was also off duty but riding with the undercover detective who, by the way, works intelligence for nypd, and that he did not appear, the second one, to be involved in the assault in any way. but they're still looking for other officers who might be involved. >> and they're still looking for more people who they believe are involved. >> they are. but their main focus, i'm told now, is on the other people who are civilian bikers who they
believe played -- were involved in the direct assault, the attack on that suv driver. they put out all kinds of pictures. they're still looking for other people at this time. one other civilian biker was in court today, clint colwell, we talked about him last night. he is charged with reaching into the window of the suv. his lawyer said it didn't happen that way it all. he was asked to turn off his engine, and he was accused of rolling over those bikers early on. we have also tonight breaking news from florida where people were stuck on a roller coaster in universal orlando. these are live pictures you're looking at. you can see it's obviously getting dark there. the orlando fire department tells the station that the call came in just over an hour ago, that the people were stuck. that's really all the information we have right now, but it does seem like they are stuck. there are folks, it looks like,
on the ride outside the areas where they're stuck. and, susan, you're also seeing these images. it clearly looks like people are on the top of the peak of that ride, but dangerously that ride seems stuck in kind of a vertical position. >> yeah, it appears that way. they said they were able to get the other people off the ride, and that's the last kind of car in its place. it looks like the people are kind of leaning over and looking down. but the good news is they're there and trying to get those people off the ride safely. >> susan, i know you have more on that 360 bulletin. >> i do, with the obama administration, anderson, announcing that the united states is suspending hundreds of millions of dollars they're spending in military aid to egypt. the state department says it's a temporary measure until the u.s. sees credible progress toward free and fair election. and the relationship with the egyptian government will be maintained. the usda is demanding that the company implicated in a
salmonella outbreak responds by tomorrow with how it will fix the problem. chicken from foster farms plants have been linked to salmonella cases that made 278 people in 18 states sick. and the owner of the washington redskins is defending his decision not to change the team's name despite criticism that it's offensive to native americans. in a letter to fans, stan snider says he respects those feelings but that after 81 years, the team's name holds memories of, quote, where we came from, who we are and who we want to be in the years to come. so he says no change, according to him. >> susan, thanks very much. for more on the story go to cnn.com. up next, more new revelations in the death of a georgia teenager. exclusively reporting on that. also my exclusive interview with a survivor of the kenya mall massacre.
the death of kendrick johnson, was it an accident or murder? tonight we continue our reporting on this case trying to get to the truth of what happened to this young man. he was a 17-year-old high school student in georgia, an athlete, whose body was found upside down rolled up in a gym mat back in january. investigators ruled the death a tragic accident, that while reaching fior a sneaker, they say, he got stuck and suffocated. we interviewed someone from the scene of the death and he told us he believes kendrick was a victim of foul play. what appears to be multiple blood points dripping down a wall in the gym. local investigators concluded it did not belong to kendrick and never actually tested to see whose blood it was. an orange and black gym shoe
found near kendrick's body. his parents say it didn't belong to their son, but it appears there is blood on the shoe, or at least some red markings. investigators concluded the stains were something other than blood, so the shoe was not collected as potential evidence. and a sweatshirt found near the body which may have blood on the cuff. but the lab report does not indicate it was tested, either. a former fbi agent told us he was dumbfounded, indicating that all this potential evidence should have been collected. kendrick's parents never believed the official conclusion about their son's death and hired a private pathologist to perform a second autopsy. what that pathologist found is shocking. >> reporter: it's the second time jacqueline johnson cried at her son kendrick's grave. the second time he was being lower sbud the groued into the . this time he was being pulled out of it. in june kendrick's body was sent to florida.
the john sons hired dr. bill anderson to perform an independent second autopsy. in that autopsy, he told the johnsons he found evidence that kendrick died from a blow to the neck, not asphyxia after slipping into a gym mat at school as investigators in georgia had said. but what dr. anderson did not find shocked them. >> when we got the body for the second autopsy, the organs, the hearts, lung, liver, et cetera, were not with the body. >> the brain? >> the brain. they were all absent. >> reporter: every or begga org the top of kendrick's head to his pelvis, gone. his family has no idea. >> we have been let down again, and when we buried kendrick, we thought we were burying kendrick, not half of kendrick. >> i'm not sure at this point who did not return the organs to the body, but i know when we got
the body, the organs were not there. >> reporter: so cnn contacted the two entities who had contact with kendrick's body and access to his organs. the georgia bureau of investigation, which conducted the first autopsy back in january, and the harrington funeral home, who the john sons chose to prepare his body for burial days later. they said the organs were placed in johnson's body, the body was closed, then the body was released to the funeral home. it's normal practice. but what happened after his body arrived at the funeral home was anything but normal. what was in the place of the organs? >> newspaper. >> newspaper. >> reporter: dr. anderson showed me the pictures of kendrick's body he had taken during the second autopsy. >> it's a black friday ad, j.c. penney ad. >> yes. >> he stuffed him with newspaper
like he was a garbage can inside his body. unbelievable. >> i would imagine that that's a different kind of pain. >> yep. >> reporter: why do you think that there would be newspaper stuffed in your child? >> i never heard of that before. never. >> reporter: neither had the founder of a national embalming academy contacted by cnn who said it's not consistent with the standards of care in the industry. nor had the president of the national association of medical examiners, who told cnn he's never heard of this practice. why would the funeral home discard his organs and stuff him with newspaper? >> the question is, why did he tell us? >> so what exactly did the harrington funeral home do with kendrick's organs and why was he stuffed with newspaper? we went to their office to find out, but their response to us? no comment. however, in a letter to the j n
johnsons, harrington funeral home denied they received his organs. he replied, his organs were disposed of before his body went to the pathologist. it's disappointing to his parents who want to know what happened to his body before and after his death. >> i'm in despair. it wakes you up in the morning and you keep pushing. >> victor blackwell joins us now. unbelievable, newspaper inside this young man's body. i understand there is an investigation into where kendrick johnson's organs went and why. what do you know about it? >> we contacted the secretary of state's office because they issue licenses to funeral home. we wanted to check on the history of harrington funeral home. and when we told them why we were calling, they decided they, too, wanted to know where were kendrick johnson's organs, and
they wanted to know more about this practice of stuffing bodies with newspaper, something they had never heard of, either. >> how was the family's autopsy, doctor, able to determine the cause of death, then? >> i asked him, if the organs aren't there, how can you determine how kendrick died? he says that essentially blunt force trauma was not in the organs, it was in the right side jaw, which was actually noted as bruised during the paramedic's report on the day he was found. he dissected the jaw which had not been done in the first autopsy, found bleeding under the skin. he dissected the other side as well, did not find bleeding. he determined there was blunt force trauma, that kendrick took that blow to the neck. >> one thing i hadn't noticed, and actually a fewer that works in gyms noticed and tweeted me about this the other day. it looks like all the mats are rolled really tightly except the one kendrick was found in. that seems to have had a large opening. i don't know if there's any significance to that or just a
coincidence, but it was an astute viewer who pointed that out. victor, stay there because there are so many unanswered questions in this case. i want to bring in senior analyst jeffrey toobin. first, the idea of newspaper found in this young man when his body was brought back up, does the funeral home face legal liability for that? >> certainly they have their license by the state, and as we heard, there is going to be an investigation. there is a potential, of course, for some sort of lawsuit by the family, but what the family really wants is to know how he died. and what makes the situation so frustrating as well as tragic is that the evidence is gone. the failure to collect evidence at the scene can't be corrected now. >> should they even test multiple samples of blood drippings down a wall? that's a really shocking photograph. >> that's not the way most gyms
look. if you have a dead body in a gym with blood streaming down the wall, you would think, at least test it. but again, it's too late now, which makes figuring out what happened even more difficult. >> or you would think somebody who works in the school, works in the gym or even goes to that school would know, oh, yeah, that was that time my friend hit their head on the wall and that's where that blood is from. it seems a very odd thing not to at least even kind of inquire about. >> the fact that the evidence in the scene where he was found is gone, the fact that the autopsy in the organs -- the organs are gone, it makes reopening this investigation very difficult, even if some -- the u.s. attorney, some new investigator wanted to do it, it's hard to know what exactly they would do. >> jeffrey toobin, thanks. the survivor in the nairobi mall attack describes how she managed to stay alive as bullets
were flying around her and people around her were getting shot. >> i just thought, okay, my next thing to do right now is just pretend that i am dead. and so i just laid, and i made it a point to lay towards where the shooting was happening because i still wanted, one, to have eyesight and vision so i could see what was happening, and two, i didn't want to be shot in my back because i didn't want to be paralyzed if i needed to run. well, did you know that old macdonald was a really bad speller? your word is...cow. cow. cow. c...o...w... ...e...i...e...i...o. [buzzer] dangnabbit. geico. fifteen minutes could save you...well, you know. she loves a lot of it's what you love about her. but your erectile dysfunction - that could be a question of blood flow.
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tonight a 360 exclusive, an interview you'll only see here. a survivor of the deadly nairobi mall attack telling what she saw and how she managed to escape. the first minutes of the attack were utter chaos. elaine dang, a 26-year-old american, was hurt but how she managed to get out alive. she was judging a children's cooking competition when the al-shabab militants stormed the mall. i spoke with her, along with her mom, elaine dang and her sister, mary dang. tell me when you first realized something wrong was happening at the mall. >> i was at the tent area of the children's cooking competition. i was with the judges, and we just heard a lot of screaming and people running outside of the mall onto the rooftop because we were on the rooftop. i heard distant booms. >> what happened then?
>> one of the presenters from the cooking competition said, it's a bomb blast. everyone, run to the corner of the parking lot. so i followed everyone but then i heard more shooting and more booms and i had a feeling whatever this was was not a simple bomb and there was people involved. so my instincts said don't go with the crowd, move away from the crowd because the crowd is going to be the most vulnerable place. so i actually moved away and hid behind one of the silver kitchen counters that was there. >> that were people hiding with you. >> yes. when i first ran to the first counter, i actually fell on top of a lady and then people fell on top of me. and so our legs were sticking out. and as we were here, i heard more shooting and then the lady that i was on top of was shot, so she screamed, i've been shot, and there started to be blood everywhere. >> what's going through your mind? were you panicked? were you thinking -- >> my first instinct, i was very shaky and very panicked, and then i thought, i need to focus and i need to assess the
situation and figure out what i need to do. in my head i was thinking, there needs to be an answer to this. for me it was like this is not it. keep on thinking and find a way out. so i'm behind the counter. it was actually around this time that i see my friend aleem, and i see him get up and go like this. that's all i see, i hear him go like this and i see him walk away. >> he put his hands up. >> yeah, he put his hands up. so i was thinking, oh, my goodness, if i surrender, if i apologize or do whatever, i could be free. so i was actually preparing myself to be the next one to surrender, and then another woman did it before me, and i saw her do this and get up, and then she was shot. >> so she actually shot a woman whose hands were up who was surrendering. >> that's what i saw. i saw her being shot, yeah. >> then what? >> then they shot into the crowd again, and they actually shot one of the gas canisters, and tha that's when it blew up. that's when i actually remember
incurring my injuries. i said, okay, i've been shot. it's okay. i knew i was fine. i was still able to run. >> had you actually been shot or was that shrapnel from the gas can? >> later we found out it was shrapnel. i ran to the next kitchen counter. it was me and the next couple. the husband had already been shot and he was laying on the ground bleeding. the lady was against the counter and i joined them. as they were shooting to the crowd again, they then -- she was next to be shot. so she started bleeding, and then it was the three of us. >> so her husband was shot and then she got shot. >> i thought i was shot at this point, and i remember her looking at me and saying, are we going to die? it was actually the first time when i was thinking to myself, incompetent we ai think we are, and i told her, i think we are going to. >> you said that to her. >> yeah. >> you really thought this was it. >> yeah, at this point. it was kind of this weird dichotomy where i was thinking,
yes, i think we're going to die and i have to prepare for it, and i didn't want to think about it or stress out for us, and i thought, i can't die. then my brother was the first person i thought of, and my mother and sister and everyone else, and i thought, this can't be it. >> it's hard for you to hear this, isn't it? >> very hard. >> did you see what was happening on tv? did you know she was there? >> my older daughter sherks told me. i thought, it's a dream. i thought, it can't be. she told me her sister got shot. i said, oh, my god, you know. i almost passed out. i thought, it couldn't be happening to my daughter, you know. yeah. i said, if anything happened to her, i don't think i can live. please let her be okay. >> she's very strong. you raised a very strong daughter. >> very brave. >> so you're sitting there with a woman who has been shot, her husband who has been shot as
well, and you say to them, i think we may die. >> and then i just thought, okay, my next thing to do right now is just pretend that i am dead. so i just laid, and i made it a point to lay towards where the shooting was happening because i still wanted, one, to have eyesight and vision in case i needed to see what was happening, and two, i didn't want to be shot in the back because i didn't want to be paralyzed if i needed to run. >> how did you get out of the last location you were in? >> after some time, i think like seven minutes or 10 minutes, i see another man walk by. he actually passes me. i think he thinks i'm dead. i get up and say, what's going on? he says, people are going downstairs. then i see a kenyan police officer, and i see people going down the stairs and rung oning , so i follow them. we go out to this lobby area and the doors are open, and i'm still very frightened to run out of the door, but then i see people running and i don't hear gunshots, so i'm thinking, this is safe.
so i start going and start running. that's when the lady in the picture that has been posted about me, her name was henna. that's what she approached me and said, are you okay, because she saw i was alone and had been hurt. >> when you see that photo taken of you now, what do you think? >> i go back and forth between, was i really there or -- i just want to talk about it like i'm very removed from the situation. but when i see the photograph and other photos of victims and people that i knew, that's when i realize i was there. so it actually puts me back, which i actually think at this point is a good thing, because i think removing myself too much at this point so early is probably not healthy for my mind. but that's how i've been coping with it, is to actually make it seem like it's removed from me. >> would you want to go back? >> i do, definitely. i do want to go back. i don't know when, but i
definitely do. i consider it my second home. >> so it hasn't changed the way you feel about kenya? >> if anything, it's increased the love that i have for the country and for the people. especially like my close friends and coworkers in nairobi. >> actually, nobody ever knows how they're going to respond when gunshots are going off. some people think they could handle it and some people don't think they could handle it are completely able to. you now know how good you are in a crisis. >> yeah. >> thank you so much for talking. >> yeah. thank you for having us. >> incredible story. lynn's family has set up a donation website. the website is gogetfunding.com/project/help- elaine. you can see it on the bottom of our screen. you can also find a link to the site at ac360.com.
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the darkness. it appears rescuers have made it aboard the rip rocket in orlando, a spokesman telling us it suffered a temporary glitch. the emergency brake came on. everything worked as designed but not really worked as designed when it stuck. it still left a lot of people hanging. most have been taken off the ride. about 10 remain stuck. according to a spokesman, nobody has been hurt. there's more happening as well. susan is back with the 360 bulletin. susan? anderson, the first three adults facing charges pleaded not guilty at his arraignment. the 53-year-old school administrator is charged with tampering with evidence and other counts as well. two were charged with raping a young girl. a 360 follow now, police are still trying to figure out how that nine-year-old boy slipped
past security and hopped on a flight from minnesota to las vegas. today the boy's father described his son's history of behavioral problems and said he asked police and officials for help in the past. >> i'm tired of people saying he's a minor, there's nothing we can do. i don't want to see my son hurt. i miss my son, i want my son home. >> he obviously didn't want to be seen on camera there. how about this indiana dog? it earned a medal after finishing a half marathon, then he crashed. boogie, a chocolate lab, was on the lam. he slipped out of his leash the night before. it's not clear how he found the race. we're happy to report boogie was reunited with his owners at a local shelter. he now has a microchip to go with the medal. he liked running. >> i'm glad you said he didn't want to be seen on camera. i thought that was a fashion statement of some sort. i was like, is that his nose?
is that his mouth? susan, thanks very much. we'll be right back. i'm tony siragusa and i'm training guys who leak a little, to guard their manhood with new depend shields and guards. the discreet protection that's just for guys. now, it's your turn. get my training tips at guardyourmanhood.com ah, mirabai, mirabai, mirabai hi patsy jambo gooday cobba dude look what the cat dragged in eduardo lucas oh! mama ni hao ma
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