tv Piers Morgan Live CNN December 17, 2013 12:00am-1:01am PST
even though some characters make triumphant returns after they die, probably wouldn't hold out for the same thing happening on homeland. you'll find out why in a moment. a 17-year-old girl fighting for her life after one of the latest school shootings. i'll talk to her friends and classmate of the shooter. are you dreaming of a white christmas, the mega jackpot is $586 million. and you're more likely to hit a hole in one.
and the top secret 9/11 report. talking about both is congressman lynch from massachusetts. thank you for joining me. you're heavily involved in both of these in different ways. about this nsa ruling today, how significant is it and how likely it will go to the very top of the legal system in america? >> i think it was a victory for the fourth amendment, piers. i think it's a logical conclusion, in terms of protecting our rights to unreasonable search and seizure. i think that the court came down on the right side of the issue. even though today's decision was just for a preliminary injunction, i think the text of the justice's decision indicate that they would in fact rule that this is unconstitutional. >> it was a pretty scathing verdict in the end, wasn't it,
talking about how the founding fathers would never have countenanced this behavior by government. and edward snowden said the secret program authorized by a secret court was exposed to the light of day found to violate american rights. has edward snowden been vindicated by this today? >> i think he's been proven right by his views of this program. i'm not so sure people think he's right in terms of how the responded individually. >> how should he have responded then, if he was there reading about all of this feeling concerned it breached americans constitutional rights, what else should he have done? >> well, you know, i'm not going to -- i'm not going to argue against the fact he brought a lot of things to light. but i think that maybe in some
ways he may have exposed some of our people to great dangers in the process of doing that. i really can't endorse that, by putting some of our people that are working clandestinely in other places and putting them in a position where they're exposed. there's some obviously there's some good that was done here, in terms of disclosing the operations of this nsa program, especially the bulk gathering of data that the court has ruled, at least in this instance, to be unconstitutional. >> is there a way forward for edward snowden perhaps to take the advice or suggestion from an nsa 60 minutes special for the weekend that he should perhaps be considered for amnesty. let me play what he said before you answer that.
>> my personal view is, yes, it's worth having a conversation about. i would need assurances that the remainder of the data could be secured and my bar for those assurances would be very high, more than just an assertion on his part. >> if edward snowden was to give back the substantial data that he's so far not revealed, in return for amnesty, would that be a sensible conclusion to this given this court ruling today? >> i would need to know a lot more about it before i made that type of conclusion, but let's just say that edward snowden has shown a light on some of these programs that -- that a great amount of good has resulted from. that doesn't necessarily give him a pass on some other things that may yet to unfold, or some damage that i'm not aware of
right now, that may of occurred because of his actions as well. >> let's turn to this report, you and representative walter jones, proposed congress pass a resolution, asking president obama to declassify the entire 2002 report into 9/11. the joint inquiry into intelligence community activities before and after the terror attacks of accept 11th, 2001. why have you done this? i know that you've read what has not been revealed to the public and you can't talk about the precise detail but how concerned should we be about what we haven't been told? >> well, i think that in this case, transparency is the way to go. not just because of the value in that, of having this information out there, remember, there was a very extensive report, the 9/11
report, hundreds and hundreds of pages. these 28 pages were actually excised from that report. these are not -- these are not just redactions, the 28 pages that i read and walter jones read have actually been pulled from the report completely. i think transparency would be served by this. number two, i think if you think about the families who lost loved ones in this, they are certainly deserving of a full accounting. and, thirdly, i think after reading this 28 pages, i think it could help to inform our decisions going forward, not just -- not just looking back in a historical context, but i actually think it will help the quality of our decision making going forward. >> congressman lynch, thank you very much for joining us. >> thank you, piers. i want to turn to america's latest school shooting. 17-year-old claire davis fighting for her life after a
person she didn't even know, karl pierce shot her on friday. joining me a senior from arapahoe school, not related to claire. how are you and all the students holding up. obviously, a shocking thing to have happened right in the middle of your school? >> right now, we're -- it's just -- to me, it's surreal, doesn't seem right. we're coming together. i think it will make us stronger as a community. as a school right now, we're struggling. we're going to go back to school on thursday next week, juniors and seniors and go back to the school and get our stuff. right now, it's tough and we're trying to get through it right now. >> do you have any inkling, any detail at all from his past that could possibly explain why this young man would shoot at point-blank range, claire davis, who by all accounts, a delightful young lady, horse
lover, very loving family member, why would he even think of doing this? >> i have no comment on carl or his actions tonight. i'm strictly talking about the donations and how our community has come together tonight. >> okay. fair enough. tell me about the donations. a few of the students have teamed up. you're trying to raise money for what purpose? >> yeah. me and a few friends, sam, c.j., zach and dillon we teamed up and went to 12 different high schools to set donation boxes in and collect money from them in the last couple of days and had events in arab pa show and the community and collected close to $12,000 and collecting whatever we can to help the family out and help them through this and heal ourselves through this. >> tell me about claire. what kind of girl is she? >> claire seemed really nice. she had a lot of friends and she
loved to ride horses and all that kind of stuff. >> in terms of colorado, and the number of incidents we've now had in the state, columbine, the aurora tragedy, why do you think these mass shootings and individual shooting incidents, why colorado? >> i really don't know why colorado. it's just -- it's weird to think that they're all within 30 miles of each other. it's really sad. i have no further comments on that. >> chris davis, view very much indeed for joining me and send all our best to all the students there and any who knows claire, all our thoughts and prayers with her tonight. >> thank you. >> some of the students said they never saw it coming. i talk to one of the classmates. and then this. >> he's not a monster. he's one of the best people i
ruined his chances for college. he would get angry and say, i just want to shoot everyone up. >> friend of shooter karl pierson, the head of the debate team. and a junior and defensive tackle on the football team. welcome. obviously what we just heard is chilling in the context of what happened. tell me about karl pierson. did you have any feeling things weren't quite right with him? >> you know, i couldn't really say he was not right or anything. i thought he was a pretty normal student. >> was he particularly bright? was he good at class? how would you describe his academic record? >> oh, absolutely. he was honestly one of the most intelligent people i knew my freshman year. i had a class with him. we would have class discussions
and he was very good at speaking and proving his points to the class. >> what were his views about politics, about america? did he ever say stuff in an aggressive way which could explain perhaps some kind of agenda that he may have? >> i couldn't really say. i didn't really notice anything out of the ordinary. >> this guy, he's gone from being apparently perfectly normal, pretty bright guy at school, to point-blank shooting one of your female classmates right in the head. how on earth has this happened, do you think? >> you know, i wasn't in his -- in his shoes at the time. maybe there were some struggles in his life. i've heard a lot of things. you can't really believe what a person was going through unless you knew them specifically. i can't really say what was happening in his mind.
>> we know his parents got divorced a couple years ago. were you aware that was a particular strain on him? what else have you been hearing? >> no, i wasn't actually aware of that. i didn't know him on a very close personal level, especially with his family. i've heard a lot of things, especially with the speech and debate club and a couple of classroom things but i couldn't really say what was going on in his mind at the time. >> what we're told is that about a week before the incident, he had been dropped from the debate club, run by tracy murphy, the school librarian. were you aware of that? had he said any ill will he bore towards this decision? >> yeah. actually, it was brought to my attention he was kicked off the speech and debate club. i'm not really sure why. there could be multiple reasons,
some that i'm not sure of, but i had heard that before. >> you hung out with him. what kind of person was he? was there anything in his character which suggested aggression or an ability to be aggressive? >> he was a very outgoing person. like i said, a very intelligent person. he really spoke his opinions and he spoke them very well. >> how do you feel about what he did? >> words can't describe how i feel for claire and her family. but i do know that it could have been much worse and i'm really happy that 2,000 other students at my school ended up being safe. >> do you know claire? >> no, sir, i didn't. >> what has been the reaction to what has happened to her, in particular?
we believe in a coma tonight and fighting obviously to save her life. this must be a huge shock to everybody, isn't it? >> absolutely. i do know that there is a community around her with thousands of people who really care for her and right now are doing their best to raise money and awareness for her and really do what they can to help her family out especially. >> in terms of the investigation, have you been helping with the police with this? do you know of other students who have been helping? >> i haven't actually spoke to the police yet. i have spoken to cnn and i've been interviewed. i haven't given any information to the police. >> thank you very much indeed for joining me. >> yeah. thank you. >> we get these troubled young people the mental health care they need and can we stop these shootings before they happen. joining me now one off the
country's top forensic psychologists and development of the channel and depravity scale. good afternoon, doctor. we talked so many times in the wake of these shootings, some mass shootings and individual shootings. here, it looked like it could be a mass shooting, unfortunately for this poor young girl it wasn't an annihilation of other students. what can we read into this that was different than anything else? >> there's a couple important messages your previous guest brought to our attention. one is, we are talking about people unremarkable and making them remarkable. when you talk about this happening in colorado, keep in mind just as we were talking about the aurora shooter and best not to remember him by name and talking about the columbine shooters and best to not remember them by name, as they became familiar to us, they became larger than life to
alienated young people in colorado who could relate to them and could relate to the aurora shooter being thought of as brilliant in the same way this shooter is described as brilliant and hearing somebody sympathetic, he was the best person i knew, obviously he wasn't the best person you knew. i think the appropriate response is that the behavior is disgusting and the community should respond in a way that's disgusted in order to be part of a systemic solution. when we're talking about people perfectly unremarkable who are doing this, then we have to recognize this is only going to be eliminated from the ground up. you as a parent look at your child, could this possibly ever happen to me. what we already know is there was a confrontation between the intended victim, which is how it always starts, the shooting, and the assailant. it was a confrontation because
the perpetrator could not deal with the experience of having something taken away from him. parents, teach your children to learn from the bad things that happen to them, teach them not to blame others even when it's someone else's fault. teach them to learn from everything that happens to them, good or bad, because if they don't start blaming others, they'll never get there. teach them resilience because bad things happen to everyone. a person who doesn't have the ability to bounce is a person who makes suicidal decisions. this was a suicidal decision. teach your children -- >> doctor, let me read you a statement from barbara and mark pierson, the parents of the arapahoe shooting. we are shattered by the tragic events that happened friday at the high school. claire and her parents have suffered unimaginably and pray for her recovery and also pray for the entire arapahoe community and their lives
changed by this horrific event. as parents we loved our son, karl dearly and we are devastated by what happened friday. we ask for privacy during this time and our right to grieve. he's perfectly normal, on the bright side, good debater, very outgoing, nothing there to suggest something like adam lanza, weirdo loner locked in a dungeon watching nasty videos. we now learn this same guy apparently a normal student, goes with a shotgun he bought a year before, machete, three molotov cocktails in search of a librarian who runs a debating society. what does this tell us about american society right now? the only way this kid who doesn't seem that extraordinary
or deranged or unsettled or have any real record of trouble, thinks the only way to resolve the dispute with the librarian is to kill him with a shotgun. >> this is quite clearly more than intending to kill the debate coach or he wouldn't have gone in there armed to the teeth with molotov cocktails and every capacity to carry out a mass casualty attack. this is the idea of a pretext of his grievance against a symbol of the school turning into something that will give him a transcendent immortality. mass killings and tendencies of mass killings are the byproduct of people with high self-esteem, not low self-esteem, high expectations of themselves but without resilience. you take away the debate team from this individual he has an emptiness inside and alienated enough in his own mind and identifies with destruction. it matters to him to be relevant he watches how we make other people like lanza, like aurora,
like columbine bigger than life and he says, i'm going to have that. we've just given it to him. we have his smiling picture, face smiling. >> let me jump in. let me jump in. >> it perpetuates it. >> wait a minute. wait a minute. we don't know that. we don't know he looked at these previous mass shootings and thought, i want to be like them, do we? you're supposing that was part of his intention. we don't know that as a fact. >> we know he shot somebody he had absolutely no grievance with. he went into a school he had absolutely no ideological or day-to-day conflict and we know he actually shot someone who had nothing to do with his debate coach. we also know he had no psychotic condition to explain, we have no indication he was irrational in any way. what we do know is with folks who carry out mass casualty
attacks, young males, they are aware of other such cases they identify with the idea of destroying and aware of how much attention and notoriety. there was another colorado case we haven't talked about, someone who left a note behind and said people are going to talk about me. some of them have spelled it out. we have enough to learn from previous attacks, sometimes people leave indication, sometimes police are wise enough not to make that a matter of the general public but they see themselves being humanized. let me give you an example. the "boston globe," no less authorities than the "boston globe" published and 18,000 word article about the elder tarnief. what better way the human nice someone who destroyed somebody in boston, for somebody alienated, wow, i'll have a multi part series about me. my life is a dead-end. people will want to know everything about me.
>> isn't that an easy thing to blame the media. >> i'm not blaming the media. >> in a way you are. you say the media shouldn't write about the people- >> i'm saying the news media perpetuates it by appearing humane. >> how do you get to understand what has caused these things, particularly where these radicalized young men at the heart of normal society in america, how do you get to tackle this type of situation and prevent it from happening elsewhere, if you don't tell the public, this is actually what happened and why. >> the same way we always have. they get decided by police, psychologists, psychiatrist, the 9/11 commission. that's great. you can talk about events such as the boston marathon. when you humanize them as humans, the people who identify with them -- it's just one component of that, if that were
and his intention was to utilize those multiple rounds to cause harm to a large number of individuals. >> arapaho county sheriff, grayson robinson talking about what he believed karl pierson planned to do last friday, kill as many people as possible at arapaho high school. our psychiatrist, dr. welner. there are a lot of people tweet ing, i would say 80% are agreeing with you that the media is responsible for glamor rising these people. >> and the 40% that are angry, you can respond to them, too. >> it's a really interesting debate. my only interest is trying to get to the heart of what is making so many young people in america want to do this kind of thing. i have to say they're almost always now young white males between 18-25.
i don't know why, it seems to be the pattern of all mass shootings, school shootings and so on. >> i don't know that i would agree with that. let me qualify that. >> let me give you my thesis. my thesis is very straightforward. i'm sure the media could do less to glamorize these people. i agree with you. perhaps we overdo naming and details. i think it's important america have that information. glamor rising the gun in society is, to me, even more fundamental to this. there is a certain kind of ramboesque quality to this culture which encourages young people to think i will go blaze up a school. >> this gets back to the issue i said this has nothing to do with culture because if schools were so safe in the black community, gee, i failed to get that memo. the reality is there are all kinds of cultural forces that bombard our children that says guns are a necessary accessory
to manhood. and fathers have got to do whatever is possible to teach their children what it is to be a man, to be creative, to have responsibility and for children who are children of divorced homes where there isn't a man in the house or available man, we have to look out for our communities. going back to again the black community, there has to be some awakening that the idea of certain elements of hip-hop culture that have glamorized guns and have made it a necessary accessory of million hood is responsible for the callous cannibalism in the black community by violence. it's disgraceful. >> all that is correct, however, this is not about the black community and guns. >> no. it's about glam or rising guns, the same thing. i agree with you. i agree with you. >> let's focus -- okay. let's focus on this particular issue i have picked up on, i would say 95% of all the mass
shootings and random school shootings and so on that we see in america in the last decade have been perpetrated by young unsettled white males. why is that? >> and i would tell you that there are shootings within the black community we don't cover and that the black community feels necessarily that's because the white run media doesn't care what happens in the black community and i think that they're right! i think that there are unsafe schools that what they speak more to is young people, young people that are bombarded by messages that glam or rise guns and glamorize destructiveness as an expression of masculinity what makes you a man. i agree with you, piers, that has to change. the two aren't mutually exclusive, glamorization or media making it bigger than life. there are two ways to bite at this elephant, who gets attracted to violent video games. it doesn't mean everyone is going to be destructive.
someone who uses them in order to train themselves is a vulnerable individual. are we teaching children resilience? are children getting this kind of message. i believe there are many approaches and i agree with you glamorizing guns as a symbol of masculinity and symbol of importance has got to end, -- got to end. >> doctor, stay with me. we will talk about something you also have information on, the lottery. the mega million jackpot could reach a billion with a b. what would it take for you to win and do you really want to win, given what happens to some of the winners.
we're heading for a very very big prize, aren't we? >> we certainly are. we have never been in this position to have a jackpot this tremendous, over half a billion dollars already the week before christmas. it's created a lot of fun. the country is in full-blown mega million mania. >> it's certainly true. if there's no winner tomorrow, the jackpot by friday would be $800 million. which means by the following tuesday, which is christmas or christmas eve, it would be a billion dollars, is that right. >> that is correct. now, every time the jackpot goes up we know more people get in the game and people are buying maybe a few extra tickets. so we had about a 1 in 2 chance of having a winner this past friday. as more and more people get into the game we know that more of the 1 in 259 million, 259 million combinations will be covered. we have a better chance we will have a winner tuesday night.
if we roll to friday and it gets into record territory, $800 million or so, we know we will have an even greater chance of having a winner. you never know. we've never been here. we have a new mega millions game. it's working well in terms of creating a really big jackpot. we may have a winner on tuesday and may not. you're exactly right, we could be close to a million -- billion dollars, with a b by christmas eve. >> there was a change on october 22nd, 2013, which means people could choose six numbers between 1 and 75 up from six numbers between 1 and 56. my quick mental computation of this meant it was nearly 30% therefore more unlikely somebody could win or indeed that you'd have a winner. you've made it much more difficult for americans to actually win this, right? >> well, the second set of numbers went down to 1 in 15. so we did change the game. you're right.
it does have longer odds now, very long odds. i think most players recognize that in both the national mega jackpot games, it's very very hard to win the jackpot but someone is going to win it. we do like to remind folks when the jackpot gets this high, that you play responsibly, it only takes one dollar to get in the game and you only need one ticket to win, the one with the right six numbers. we do encourage people to remember, it's only a game, not an investment and you should be playing responsibly if you do choose to play. >> no one's going to listen to any of that of course because when it gets to a billion dollars, they're going to spend every dollar they can possibly spend, aren't they? it's human nature. i'll be raiding my bank account to buy as many as i can. >> hopefully, you will be lottery sed etth your entertainment dos,
the greathing thappens when the jackpot gets this big is that everybody's talking about it. it becomes a very social game. there are often office pools and friends and family that pool together. you just need a few dollars perhaps to get into that pool. we would hope people do play responsibly. >> are you allowed to play, paula? >> i am not. nobody who works for the lottery is allowed to play. if i could play, i think my limit would probably be about $10. [ laughter ] >> tell me this, do most winners in your experience, do they take the annuity or lump sum? >> most winners do take the cash, the lump sum. there was a time when there wasn't a choice between the lump sum or the annuitized prize.
the big number we advertised the $586 million does assume you will take it over the 30 years. it's a personal choice. if you take the cash, you have a lot of money up front. i always say to those winners here in virginia that have been lucky enough to beat those long odds that you are an extremely lucky and fortunate person and i hope that you will be a good steward of this money and have it do good things for you and your family and causes that are important to you. we certainly had a lot of winners who have gone on to do great things with their lottery wins. >> yeah. i interviewed one last week actually won over $100 million. she was a very happy lady who had done huge amounts of philanthropic work and helped out many people including her own family. as you know, however, that's not always the case and i'll talk to you after the break and talk to someone who won a lot of money and it ruined his life. i don't want to kill the fun.
congratulations on the success of the lottery and good luck to everyone competing? good luck to you. >> thank you. [ female announcer ] we give you relief from your cold symptoms. you give them the giggles. tylenol cold® helps relieve your worst cold and flu symptoms. but for everything we do, we know you do so much more. tylenol cold®.
everyone dreams of what they would do of what they would do if they won the lottery. joining me is a friend who won $16 million in a lottery in pennsylvania. and with me is a psychiatrist who i will talk to after this. a very sad story about your friend buddy post. he won the lottery and it effectively ruined his life.
tell me why. >> bud had a compulsive personality and not a lot of people enjoyed bud. he had his money he was not a real nice guy. he first got his winning ticket and he hired a limousine to go to harrisburg to collect the check. and he immediately proceeded to put all his relatives in business and bought restaurants and everything seemed to go bad when he did this. he was almost murdered by a couple of his relatives. someone took out a hit on him and the poor guy ended up in jail. bud was the type of guy that thought he was a jack of all
trades and thought he was an attorney. he defended himself with these numerous lawsuits and never won any of the cases. he lost about $5 million to a lady who used to buy tickets with him prior to his winning day. she was awarded that much money, a good part of his earnings and i believe he blew about $3 million with lawyers in town. they all have new vehicles after they met bud. the city wanted bud to be broke. if he had money he was a problem. they agreed to let him sell his lottery at the end there and the day that he came to me and told me that he was actually working for my plumbing and heating company delivering supplies and was living in my office and had
no money left. he was scheduled to get the last check. before he received the check he went to the cadillac dealer and bought three or four more new cadillacs and he bought $150,000 motor home which he sold for $35,000 -- i think $60,000 in a broken down motor home. he was always making bad deals. >> what would your message be? given what happened to buddy what is your message to people who are all racing to buy tickets for mega millions? is it you should be careful what you wished for. >> he called it the lottery from hell. i knew bud more than anybody. and he was happiest when he was
broke. because his life was unmanageable. and it just complicated everything about him and all his family and just totally destroyed the guy. so -- >> frank, i have to leave it there. it's a fascinating tale of a warning in many ways. thank you for joining me. i want to talk to michael wellner. tell me, when you hear this, there are so many stories like this people who imagine it will be the stuff of dreams and it becomes when you win it the stuff of nightmares. what do you think? >> did you have mike tyson on here. and there are people by virtue of their character you can put opportunity and money in their world. but by virtue of them being who they are and how they will be
affected they will be vulnerable to new pressures they don't see coming and they won't be able to handle. for those fortunate enough to win, i think the lottery is a wonderful thing. but those who are fortunate, the best thing to learn from this is to be aware enough of your limitations so you can make a plan for adjustments and just be able to take things in stride rather than be rigid and be cast about like a boat on the seas. >> is the lottery a force for good or bad in a society like america? >> i think the lottery is wonderful. look, the lotteries raise money. the proceeds go to necessary programs that states have that otherwise they would be having taxes for. so people voluntarily will give for something that can help a
state run its affairs as opposed to tax, it's a wonderful thing. not only that just the idea that everyone's on a level playing field. the people who work at the lottery can't win. somebody with power doesn't have an advantage, someone when "w" a lot of money doesn't necessarily have an advantage. it's like willie wonka and the chocolate factory. if you have that winning ticket it's you. it's a motor of luck or a matter of god, and there is something that is magical as a collective hope and optimism. that's how the lottery is promoted. i mean, you never know, which is healthy. >> are you buying a ticket? >> i'll split it with you. >> you miser. good talking to you. come back soon, i appreciate it.
it's the most inspiring stuff you will read all year. that's all for tonight. "ac360" starts right now. good evening, everyone. what a court ruling against the nsa means to your privacy. and remember this, that ocean liner stranded at sea, power failing, toilets overflowing. our exclusive investigation tonight reveals at what carnival knew about major problems that turned one of their fun ships into a floating sewer. later, two medical stories. and dr. sanjay gupta wants to prove that the anti-bacteria soaps you're using prove that it actually works. also tonight. whether taking multivitamins do anything for you at all. and whether you should continue to take them. about